Slashdot Mirror
Apple Blindsides More AppStore Developers
For a while now Apple has said it doesn't want "widget-like" apps in the store; but where is the boundary of that fuzzy statement? The developers of My Frame, of which three versions had already been approved for the iPhone/iPad, found out that they had already crossed it when Apple informed them their app would be pulled. My Frame had options to overlay data on whatever photo was displaying: a Twitter stream, weather, etc. When one of the developers wrote to Steve Jobs on a whim to ask what unwritten rule their app had violated, Jobs wrote back: "We are not allowing apps that create their own desktops. Sorry." "I see now why people are so angry at the 'murky' nature of the App Store, and I'm starting to agree with them. My Frame was approved by Apple 3 times (once for each version we released), and ... now, at version 1.2 they decide it's to be removed? How can a company be prepared to invest into a platform that can change at any time, cutting you off and kicking you out, with no course of action but to whine on some no-name blog[?] There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare. It really is Apple's way or the highway...." A few blogs have picked up the story.
It's time to retire the Bill Gates Borg photo and replace it with a Steve Jobs Borg photo for Apple stories.
Sucks to be you. Don't write for iStuff.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
abandon apple
w/ no apps, the iphone is an expensive brick.
I have some guys here at work who use their iPhones for VNC quite religiously. VNC is a tad bit closer to "its own desktop" than this app, granted it is a snapshot of another machine's desktop. Where do you draw the line, Mr. Jobs?
My Frame hsd options to overlay data on whatever . . .
That's the kind of typo that you catch when simply *skimming* over a paragraph. You didn't even read through it once, did you? Doesn't surprise me.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/my-frame-alarm-clock-displays/id364532249?mt=8
Is he hoping that Steve reads:
"There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare. It really is Apple's way or the highway..."
and rewards his loyalty with an exception?
A portmanteau of has and had?
"What kind of music do pirates listen to?" -Paul Maud'dib
"Yeeeaaarrrrr n' Bee!!" -Stilgar, Leader of Sietch Tabr
Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 Series is an amazing platform. I'm more than excited to sell my iPhone and get one that supports the new Microsoft platform when they come out. I think developers will find that Microsoft has really given everyone a better option besides Apple...
Android really needs a better Market app, but other than that, there's not really much developers can complain about the platform. I've developed a few personal apps myself and every other Android developer I talk to (some are even Apple users, FYI) are quite happy with the platform. Hell, Froyo is taking it a step further and I think Android is really going to fly from here on.
The so-called "fragmentation" issue does *not* exist (ok, to some extent hardware makers can change the rules on their devices regarding what hardware is included) and building software for multiple resolutions is not that hard, it just takes an amount of effort most shovelware developers are not willing to have (which is a good thing IMO).
So all in all, he's just whining because Apple took his shiny little toy (which he knew could happen at any time).
Sucks to be you.
Next time, develop for Android. Sure you'll make less money but at least you'll be free to make less money.
iPhone developers are up in arms at Apple requiring them to use only Apple toolkits, sacrifice a Windows developer at their local Apple Shop every Sunday and maintain an altar to Steve Jobs in their homes. And eat a bug.
Apple is famous for its rigid control over its devices, in its quest to maintain user quality. Developers have worked under increasing restrictions in their attempts to provide quality applications for the iPhone such as I Am Rich, Magic 8 Ball and iFart.
"Not a big deal," said Mr Jobs in a personal email. "Cross-platform development leads to a worse user experience every time. Also, the video of you eating the bug has to be H.264 QuickTime or your app is out. Extra points for cockroaches."
"This clause shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the creative freedom developers need," said iPhone developer Greg Slepak. "Software is an infinitely malleable creation of pure thought. Toolkits, languages and frameworks are only a way to develop something people will want. It's like telling Rembrandt what brand of brushes he's allowed to use."
He paused to chow down on a palmetto bug for his MacBook's camera. "I'll tell you, a lot of iPhone developers are seriously considering Android, just as soon as Google develops a suitably exploitable stream of mindless thralls that will generate us a gushing torrent of money."
"Thanks for the video, Greg," said Mr Jobs, "but we've just added section 3.3.1.a: 'In particular, when Greg Slepak submits an application, the bucket of cockroaches in the video have to be Apple-branded and genetically engineered in Cupertino.' So we've rejected your application, cancelled your membership and zeroed your account.
"Of course, you're free to apply again. Or not, if you don't want a goddamn dumptruck full of money backed up to your house. It's a free country."
http://rocknerd.co.uk
How can a company be prepared to invest into a platform that can change at any time
I don't know. Why don't we ask someone who ha ---- Oh wait, that's you!
Years later, after it's been documented in to oblivion that Apple dicks app store developers over. The developers either know full well what they are getting themselves in to or they are completely retarded. Yet we here we are, hearing the same tired $@%&ing story once again. The insignificant details are different but nothing else is.
App store devs, you KNOW you have two options: Deal with it or don't. Now, please, kindly tell your story on Twitter, Facebook status updates or somewhere else no one is paying attention and quit robbing the rest of us of our mental bandwidth.
Whale
There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare
You know, maybe if half the iPhone App Developers decided to opt out of Apple's ridiculous system, and started developing more apps for Android, perhaps there would be more incentive to improve their app store to put it on par with Apple's.
Just sayin' man.
Another thing, this is like complaining that you didn't get into the NFL when you chose pro football as your career. Perhaps you should have done a little research before becoming an iPhone App developer, Hmmm? The fact that you got INTO the App store - AND were successful enough to have it sell at all, is considered lucky in my opinion.
Either accept what Apple calls the shots on what can run on the iPhone you or go develop for another phone/platform. Steve is in charge of Apple, and he says what goes. You knew that going in.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Cry me a river about "the highway" when the developers already dismiss the best alternative application marketplace (Android). To the developers: Android dollars or no dollars. Or bending over for the will of Apple.
Doing the Right Thing should not be preempted by making a buck.
Or Steve Jobs in a sheep suit.
So I just looked on the App Store and their application is there at version 1.2. Did they just rant prematurely?
Sounds like what Second Life did. I used to play the game with SL, developed in-world items and scripts. Every time I started to make money at it, SL would make the script "Illegal", discontinue some function I was using, start giving the same thing away for free or start charging for something that was free. All in all the moving target made it impossible to work in the environment. Thus, I stopped and walked away.
If Apple starts changing the rules and making the environment less appealing for the developers then they will move, unlike second life there are competitors and other opportunities.
There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare. It really is Apple's way or the highway...
This just isn't true anymore. Yes, the market does have its issues, but it is certainly an alternative if the app store won't allow your app. Android will overtake iPhone in the near future as far as overall market share goes (since it's on all sorts of low-end devices nowadays, as well as multiple carriers, not to mention the very best phones these days run android, not iPhone OS, and it doesn't look like this summer's iPhone will be any better than them).
While it may have its downsides as compared to the app store, completely ruling out the android market is just foolish.
1) When where the initial 3 versions released each? If the first version was approved long before Apple overhauled their internal scanning practices, it might have slipped through, and continued to do so until someone caught it on a much later update.
2) what new features did 1.2 add, or bring light to that may have been latent or underutilized? Did each revision add something new, and make it more "widget like" eventually ending up as a desktop-style application?
3) where did this app get its "overlay" data, and did someone else complain about this app pulling from their servers for commercial purposes?
4) were any of the data connections the app made in violation of other apple policies? Did it take user data and preferences and send them to central servers outside of the user and Apple's control (potential privacy or identity theft issues)?
5) Was there something else in this app that was a concern? Anyone have it before it got pulled to really look?
6) Were any of this companies other apps pulled or rejected at the same time? Perhaps this "harmless" app is being used as a media example, when in reality, other apps get the dev itself banned.
7) the "no widget" rule is actually fairly well defined. Apps are to access a content resource, or their own data, but "aggregator" apps that provide multi-functions doing little more then pulling from other sources fall under the "no real value" category. A new application is one thing, pulling data from other sites together and making it look like it;s your data, or a unique app is half pointless, and a disservice to users, and those apps get banned, including any that provide desktop like functionality.
i don;t know. Out of 200,000 apps, apple's made a few mistakes, but this app seems half fishy to start with, no genuine content of it's own, and a shady dev who goes running to blogs over 1 app that, lets face it, doesn't really sound like an "investment" a company would be behind?
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
"I see now why people are so angry at the 'murky' nature of the App Store, and I'm starting to agree with them. My Frame was approved by Apple 3 times (once for each version we released), and... now, at version 1.2 they decide it's to be removed? How can a company be prepared to invest into a platform that can change at any time, cutting you off and kicking you out, with no course of action but to whine on some no-name blog[?] There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare. It really is Apple's way or the highway..."
You can't use commas and semicolons properly, and/or you are so myopic that you can't see the forest for the apple trees. There are plenty of other platforms out there to develop for. If your business model relies on Apple's closed store app architecture to force you in front of users, and requires their zillion-user-plus install base in order to be profitable, maybe you don't have a very compelling product to begin with. What you are witnessing is the difference between Apple and an actual free market; live with it or move on. None of us outside the reality distortion field are surprised.
Old Nick fires his lawyers!
Google has publicly stated that Froyo (Android 2.2) came out 6 months ahead of schedule. And yet... there seems to be no timeline for their improvement of the UI or accessibility and organization of the market place. While freedom is important, a little standardization would go a long way in improving the Android platform for both developers and consumers.
It seems to me that this is troubling for the developer, but it's also troubling for the customers. It means that users have bought applications that suddenly have no possibility of being maintained properly. Bugs will never be fixed. New features will never come. It turns iTunes into a fairly risky marketplace.
The app still seems to be available on the store. And it looks good too. Is this a slashvertisement? If so, it's a decent one.
linky
As far as the Android store being a wild west goes, sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but his Steveness didn't have anything to do with that.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
He's calling him out. At best he'll trigger Jobs to outline his logic similar to the Flash issue. At worst his concerns fall on deaf ears. But for the rest of us, it might be a little pointer in the right direction.
... or where the precise line will be drawn for what an application can and can't do is 1) interesting and 2) a potential time saver for new application developers. You want to make a new look and feel? The message is loud and clear: either do it on the immature Android operating system or don't do it at all. And that advice stands until Jobs apologizes and approves applications like My Frame.
Jobs wants to maintain complete control with the experience on iDevices and the second you try to make your application look more capable than just a regular application in the sense of altering look and feel, you're stepping on his turf and he will show up with the ban hammer. Jobs is not interested in a new container for viewing or looking like an operating system catching like wildfire and usurping Apple's bread and butter: being the best, fluid, sexy interface. That's how they make their money. That's one of the big components that justifies a massive price point on these products. That's a lot of Jobs' strategy and I think a lot of people know it including the shareholders.
So the strategy to publicly ponder how far this will go
My work here is dung.
If MS provides a better approach to this, they can steal quite a lot of developers from apple. But again, MS will want to copy how apple operates. It is about time, apple get a serious compitetion. Google needs to set certain minimum phone configurations specs for Android and make a better experience with that OS. Well as long as the competition sucks, Apple will screw every one.
Write and sell the application through ROCK... I've purchased some nice apps for my (jailbroken) iPhone.
As pointed out by Anonymous Coward, My Frame 1.2 is in the app store right this second:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/my-frame-alarm-clock-displays/id364532249?mt=8
--- What?
Blackberry OS doesn't even have stores, but it certainly has software; Android is less "wild" than that. I find it ridiculous to say that people can't market software without a tightly controlled application store. There has never been a successful tightly controlled compulsory application store until Apple's. Since phones have become general computers, why is it so hard for people to buy software the same way they do for their laptops?
Apparently "ShiftJelly" isn't willing to develop for other platforms, but that just means that more versatile developers can succeed instead.
"I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further."
My Frame 1.2 is in the app store: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/my-frame-alarm-clock-displays/id364532249?mt=8
--- What?
Get to work making android the preferred platform of, well, everybody.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Exactly. I really don't see the big issue with the droid store, other than that there are a lot similar-apps of varying levels-of-quality in the store. The rating system actually seems somewhat useful to me know, and I've download quite a few droid-apps and paid for others that I found useful.
I've been trying to release an iPad version of my app since launch. It has been rejected by Apple four times. Each time, we fixed what they asked us to, and each time they found something else to reject us for.
1. Contained links to Paypal (just like our approved iPhone app.) :-|
2. Doesn't rotate (like MANY other iPad apps)
3. Contained iTunes Links to Points apps (just like other Mafia apps, and our iPhone app.) They are forcing us to implement in-app purchasing.
4. Our website contained a contest... After 10,000 people downloaded our free app and created a free character, we would give a free iPod Touch to one of them. Apple called us today and said that we aren't allowed to give away Apple products from a website associated with the app. They said we can give away a Zune HD, but not an iPod Touch.
I agree. There was nothing like Apple's "app store" until very recently; how does he think people have been selling consumer software for the past twenty years? Did he get all the software on his laptop from an "app store?"
More versatile developers will succeed on other platforms where "Shifty Jelly" is apparently not willing to tread.
I really have to wonder if there is more than meets the sound-bite here. It sounds absurd yes. But then again it would be absurd to be so capricious. Maybe were not getting the full story? Apple is if anything not illogical in their choices. You may vehemently disagree with their choices but the choices all have an internal logic. I can't see any logic here. I suspect this may be a BS story.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
So basically, they changed the app and now its reposted on the appstore, then they get a story on slashdot. I doubt their sales are going down.
"It really is Apple's way or the highway" just says he's either a lousy developer, or lazy. Android offers the user base if you debug your app properly. In truth, Apple has always attracted douche bag developers who often polish a shiny user interface over a weak and/or unstable core, and then pollute the google search results for identical apps with their crippleware. I'm not surprised the iPhone has made this worse by limiting the developers options for real software, focussing them more on the user interface.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
Mod me down but Android an immature wild west platform? My ass.
There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare. It really is Apple's way or the highway..."
Somehow freedom != wild west? I'll take the highway thanks.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
It's not Apple's way or no way. It's their way or your way. If you're complaining that other platforms aren't mature enough, then improve them. You'r complaining that your preferred product thinks it's too good for your product. That's how Apple should be -- to a set standard. You're upset that you don't meet that standard, be better. You're upset that there are some false positives, welcome to life. You get to suck up false positives and false negatives in order to have the principle in the first place. You don't get both.
"How can a company be prepared to invest into a platform that can change at any time...", Apple's the one doing that. You're just along for the ride. Be happy that you got as far as you did. Follow the changing rules if you want to stay on the board. Stop complaining that the surf is too eratic -- if it weren't, you wouldn't enjoy surfing.
For the record, I'm not an Apple supporter. They produce wonderful consumer devices. I don't use consumer devices. I use business devices. Remember Microsoft Windows? Designed, from the ground up, to support every developer and every language and every codec and every game and every language and every peripheral? You get one or the other. You get an open environment, or you get a controlled environment. You ain't gonna get both.
You can, however, build your own. It's not hard. It's just a lot of work, money, time, and effort.
Is this some kind of marketing scam or FUD against Apple? I still see My Frame 1.2 at least in iTunes. Seems a fishy attempt to me to draw attention to the application.
Contrary to the opinion presented about Android - as a developer, I've found that it is robust and stable - although having to deal with the plethora of window sizes and capabilities does keep one at the cutting edge. I punted on iPhone development a little over a year ago and haven't looked back. Dealing with "the Wild West" or a "crazy Dictator" - I'll take the Wild West any day of the week...
This is what all you apple fanby jerks have led us to. Thanks a lot. Jerks.
You co-opt the look and feel of the device, and expect Apple to not be pissed? That does fall under the "don't do what we do" doctrine. Sorry; no sympathy here. Maybe Android will let you sell a shiny coat of paint, but you can't act surprised and be believable on this.
"There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare."
This application is filling a gap in iPhone OS's capabilities. iPhone OS doesn't do widgets or anything widget like - until Apple does it first, of course - which is a feature people want. These guys are trying to fill that hole, and in free and open markets, thats a good thing. However iPhone is not a free nor open market.
The only reason Android doesn't work for him is because Android doesn't have this particular glaring functionality hole.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/android-market-share-passes-iphones-npd-data-2010-05-10
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
Microsoft has been pulling that kind of shit for ages, except they have been much more subtle about it. I only point that out because you monkeys are so addicted to their crack that you will tolerate it. Another way to put it; What the hell has taken you so long to realize Apple does not give a shit about your app, or the others not written by them? That fuzzy line is there so they can toss those apps that are indirect conflict with theirs or those they have coming down the pipe.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
I know you guys get annoyed with this, but the fact is Apple gets to sell what it wants, period. Your rejection, my safe store. At this point, if you don't understand this, don't dick around with apps that are clearly in the "our paint looks better than Apple's" and cry to mommy when they finally notice.
When Driod gift cards hit the Walmart checkout isle the iPhone rein will come to an end. There is of course no such "plan" yet of course. If Google can somehow manage to link the chrome web app store, Google TV and the Andriod app store to one gift card, then given Driod's expected market share it's hard to see how Apple will compete when they keep punishing their developers like this.
I thought they tweeted version 1.2 was approved.
"Sum Ergo Cogito"
If it apple did this osx it will die so fast that jobs head will blow.
Apple = Arrogance Produces Profit-Losing Entity This was historically true, now, if Jobs and Co, keeps up their practices, eventually, they will find the competitors getting their market-share and that little joke up there will become true again. Here's something of interest for music lovers. Samsung's media players, such as their YP-P3 and other series. The sound is out of this world, way superior to Apple's products. And, that media player has an excellent headseat included, will satisfy most out there who could be quite discriminate. Compatible with DivX, Xvid and other MPEG4 codecs, as well as a flash player, voice recording, FM radio, record your FM songs, etc. if you are a musician, you are in luck, you can actually speed up or slow down your music, really cool when you are trying to figure out a guitar or bass riff. Do you like to watch downloaded TV Shows? This puppy played all my videos without a hitch, I was watching Chuck, Doctor Who, etc.. all XVids.. no headaches. The system itself as built-in speakers and they sound really good actually. You can't see them. But it works :)
Seriously, the only draw back is that there aren't that many games and no internet support (only bluetooth).
However, a 32GB version cost me 254$ at B&H in NY City. I'm blown away by the sheer quality of this player. It has made me love music again.
On a windows' based platform, make sure you have Windows Media Player 10 or 11 and it's instantly recognized with XP SP2 or better.
Seriously, the moment Samsung takes this product, add phone and internet and most of all, gets into the gaming aspect, there product will be superior to IPhone/IPod/etc
The battery life is really 41 hours for music and 6 hours for video. Advertised and delivers as said. Simple to use, no iTunes or DRM stuff to deal with.. No root kits :)
Anyways, the truth is, Apple, more than ever needs the competition, I'm no fan of their products, because it's too much of a "Big Brother" deal when you buy into them.
Cheers!
I think Judas Priest wrote a song about Apple's app store in 1981.
So Apple is driving and you puny peon passengers have no say? Priest tells you what to do:
Do it your way!
Sweet, sweet freedom. Sounds like the Priest got an early Android release in 1981.
The Wild West kicks ASS!
Most people who bought an iPhone or iPad bought it for what it offered out of the box, plus some vague idea that there were also going to be "plenty of games and other cool things to download for it in the future". The fact that it's a "closed usage" platform isn't really a factor for most of us (myself included).
It's pretty clear that Apple is "winging it" with a lot of this app store approval stuff. Things keep getting developed that they obviously didn't consider in advance, so while reviewing them, they're basically thinking, "Hmm.... is THIS particular thing something that could get in our way, down the road?" If they decide it is, then bam... no approval for you.
But 90% of the time, the people I see complaining about this stuff were writing apps they should have known were pushing the boundaries in some way. EG. Don't try to re-invent or modify the look and/or functionality of any of the existing UI elements or applications. Don't try to create apps that add features to existing, basic functionality of the device either (such as trying to offer wireless iTunes syncing). Otherwise, you're deep into that gray area where Apple may, at any time, suddenly decide they dislike what you're doing.
If your app brings something new and useful to an iPad/iPhone - then you should be just fine, assuming you followed the rules and didn't use off-limits APIs or something to build it.
I doubt, for example, the guys bringing the Bento database to the iPhone/iPad had any issues, since the devices never had built-in database functionality before. I'm not aware of anyone having a lot of app approval issues when submitting apps allowing people to draw pictures with an iPhone/iPad either.
I like my iPhone but the Apple Attitude pisses me off. Whether it is battery life or support issues (apparently it is my fault that the battery won't last 24hrs), or the sucky software that Apple writes, I find being an Apple customer is to accept having a low grade headache all of the time. Quite frankly, I expected better than a lot of locked down eye-candy. Don't get me wrong: some of the functionality is excellent (voice recognition, web browsing). It's just that to make it a powerful workplace tool, so much is missing or the designed functionality impedes the utility of the device and is impossible to work around. Well, unless you jailbreak it.
Jobs reminds me of Dr. Raymond Cocteau from the Stallone flick "Demolition Man". He figures he's building this perfect world but it only works as long as he controls everything.
Dr. Cocteau: Be well!
John Spartan: Be fcuked.
It will be interesting to see how far Apple progresses before the market starts calling them on it (competition, customer dissatisfaction).
Slashdot, in an effort to be "Wild West-ish", seems to just accept every article submitted to them. Their motto may be, in these patriotic, freedom loving, phone times, "Let us not forget the soldiers who fought and died for our right to post articles without first verifying that they are true."
--- What?
I had to write an iPhone/iPod Touch app for work. The Objective-C programming language and the XCode IDE are probably the worst tools I've ever had to work with, with the exception of having to do apps in horrible JavaSwing once-upon-a-time. Actually the graphics programming is pretty decent but the Objective-C syntax is just retarded. Anyway, the draconian control Apple has over their platfrom should be alarming to all developers. Forcing what tools (and hardware) developers have to use, forcing developers to pay $100 a year just for the right to use the tools, and no guarantee you will ever be able to get your hard work on the App Store are all reasons to boycott the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad development. You say that the Google Android platform is no alternative? Only time will tell. I personally believe that the iPhone/iTouch/iPad market is only a temporary star for Apple. Eventually they will get knocked down by better products with better developer support and without all the draconian BS Apple forces on developers.
How can a company be prepared to invest into a platform that can change at any time, cutting you off and kicking you out, with no course of action but to whine on some no-name blog[?]
Until it impacts their bottom line, no company will take the blog whining very seriously. Once enough developers have lost a substantial investment to an app store rejection, you might see developers shy away from the app store or be able to effect change in Apple's rules.
Until then, companies seem to be happily profiting from it.
Since when is this a no name blog?
I spent like $50 on Android apps in the last month or two. I don't know WTF what authors prob is, but I really like the Android Market. The app could use improvements in regards to categorization of apps, but it works for me.
"it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare"
Couldn't something similar be said of Windows? And yet isn't that part of the reason Windows is dominant? There really is a market for freedom, even if that freedom is messy.
So stop whining. Apple doesn't want your business; why keep trying to do business with Apple?
"Understand, but don't agree...besides all of which our application (My Frame) is a photo frame, not a desktop environment. Your people won't even tell us what we need to remove to get approved, they are just kicking us out. Put yourself in our shoes."
That would require Jobs to be treated for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Which'll never happen. Too big a risk to the midichlorians or whatever generates the RDF.
Check here.
Am I missing something? That says that it's version 1.2, updated 28 May 2010.
Is this just a developer raising a ruckus as advertising?
I hear a lot of complaining about the Android Marketplace, and most of it is correct... But the thought comes to mind:
Why the hell are you relying on Android's marketplace app to advertise your product?
I've seen very, very few apps advertised away from the marketplace app, and almost every one of them also said 'iPhone' as well.
And it's not like Android phones aren't used enough... They recently passed iPhone for network usage.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
whats the chance that apple is planing a similar feature for the ipad in the near future, maybe for auto-trigger when the device is docked? instant photoframe, just put a dock in a strategic location; like say a corner table in the living room.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
in other news google does not.
Or maybe we can associate another pop-culture reference:
http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/post.aspx?id=416394&show=burns
This is an interesting story for me as it does a wonderful job of pointing out a major similarity between corporations and governments and people's responses to them.
One can gripe and moan all he wants about wanting more freedoms and rights (I do), but the basic truth is that people will put up with a lot, even frequently draconian rules, so long as the rules are non-arbitrary, fairly and equally applied, and the people can be relatively sure of being able to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. The 'Jim Crow' laws of the Southern U.S. broke all these precepts and (thankfully) failed- the targeted people and those who cared about them rallied and brought that system down.
Apple is likewise breaking these precepts and will kill the i-Stuff ecosystem if they don't change how they run things.
***** PREEMPTIVE NOTE: I am NOT in any way, shape, or form stating that Apple is in any way racist! This is just an observational comparison of policy systems. *****
I hope this comment is well received... I could have moderated instead!
Persecutors will be violated!
You should abandon Apple because it's good for you, not because it's bad for Apple.
After several of these "they pulled my app = no they didn't it's still there" postings, soon no one will believe any of them and then the boot of the Apple thugs will really come down hard on the necks of the proles... muhahahaahaa!
"How can a company be prepared to invest into a platform that can change at any time..."
Then simply don't! And stop wining. (and now: Burn, karma, burn!)
(I don't understand the hype around the closed and restricted iPad/iPhone/iPod touch anyways. I own the later, but only run a few very selected apps. Occasionaly. Otherwise I use it to read a few web pages and e-mails before I get enough energy to get out of bed.)
Apple are not doing the appstore for your benefit, they are in it to maximise their own profits.
The best way to rule out the competition is to ban it, and only allow the crap to survive.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I got an idea, stop developing for a company that treats developers like they are the source of all the evil in the world. Easy as that...:)
Apple's policy is that they control their products. Originally that meant you couldn't get hardware level programming information for your Mac because they didn't want anyone to write an application (or heaven forbid another OS) for the platform. They wanted to be able to change their underlying hardware (and the implementation of the API) at will without breaking legacy code. Sounds good on the face of it, but that also meant that if the API had a bug, or didn't do what you needed, or was otherwise unacceptable, you were screwed. You usually found this out after you were knee deep in your project and it was too late to change platforms.
You couldn't find out details on hardware you owned from the people who made it... outrageous. At that time I made the decision that even though the Apple platforms were just about the best functioning user interface around (and their graphics were state of the art compared to the PC platform), their corporate policies made it impossible for me to justify buying their products. It hurt to not have the shiny.
Apple's expanded their control to new levels with the App store, but it's the same reasoning. You will use their products in their way or else.
A example conversation about objections to Apple's policies to illustrate the "problem":
Apple: "Since it's our store we can choose who will sell items there or not be allowed. The fact that there's no other store competing with us isn't our fault, even though we didn't provide any way for anyone else to sell software for our devices. We're doing things the right way and we'll enforce that as we feel like it. We're also going to charge you through the nose for the privilege. Now bend over and take it, or else be uncool."
Mac Hacker 1: "Cool product, but I can't live with that." He scratches his head, walks away, and goes off to write open source Arduino code)
Mac Hacker 2: "This product is too cool to live with those rules" Reverse-engineers the iPhone to allow third party software to be loaded and publishes the info. Is sued by Apple, loses entire bank account plus cost of iPhone.
Third Party retail software developer: "But, but, but..... the iPad is sooooo cooooooool... and we could make soooooo much money writing software for it, and I have a reeeally cool idea, and I don't wanna follow your rules, and it hurts, and my iPhone is too cooool to stop using it... can't you guys at Apple just approve our application for the store? Pretty please? "
Then he runs off and posts to a blog to complain that Apple isn't being fair, because after all they made their products too cool for us to not use them, and we can't possibly be responsible enough to NOT BUY PRODUCTS FROM THEM.
I love the iPhone interface... it's fun and good looking. Too bad it's an Apple product, or I'd buy a couple.
Erik
Once again you have spared me from having to make choices.
Please bring the appstore to the Apple Desktop, and force all OS X developers go through your glorious appstore so all Apple users can benefit from your infinite wisdom. Just think, you could pocket 30% off that hefty $1500 CS5 price-tag... if you didn't bar Adobe apps all together -- and wouldn't that be a hoot!
All I really have to say is "SUCK IT UP DEVBOY" you and everyone else who bought into the apple paradigm gave them the power to ignore you, treat you like shit, and yet there are still fan boys who believe in Steve Jobs as the second fucking coming! This includes everyone who complains that they can only sell anything (movies, music, etc.) at the iStore. You made this shit happen, when you adopt a monoculture selling environment you get the people who are controlling said monoculture ABSOLUTE CONTROL! Don't like it either go with the alternatives, make your OWN alternative, or bend over and take it. Stop fucking whining.
How long will it be that Steve Jobs or Eric Schmidt replaces Bill Gates as the computing nemesis?
Windows 7 is the wrong way to head if you are looking for a more open process. If anything, it sounds like Microsoft is going to be more strict than Apple in approving software - we know for sure there at the very least an approval process...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
iPhone:
How can a company be prepared to invest into a platform that can change at any time, cutting you off and kicking you out, with no course of action but to whine on some no-name blog
Android:
How can a company be prepared to invest into a platform that is immature and whose app store is a wild west nightmare.
Well, choose your poison...
Implement your awesome ideas in our app store! When we see how successful they are and want in that new market we will unapprove them!
More transparency would be awesome, but I'm not sure "blindsided" is quite the right term here.
There are folks who know they're violating the terms of the developer agreement (eg. games that use LUA internally). There are folks who know they're completely in the clear, conforming to every rule and guideline. And there are edge cases.
I think the "blindsiding" is only happening (a) in the edge cases, or (b) in the folks who have been violating the rules all along, but who have slipped through the app approval process anyway. Apple's approval process has been overloaded, the people involved in it have been overworked, and all sorts of things that ought to have been rejected have gotten through. (One can draw parallels to the patent approval process.) As Apple has time and resources to ramp up, things that slipped through before get caught.
But they're still... I don't know, I haven't seen many rejections yet that a majority of Apple developers I know couldn't kinda understand. "Oh, yeah, that's too bad, but I can understand why that got rejected." So I have a little trouble using the term "blindsided".
The question isn't "why was this okay before, but it's not okay now?". The question is "if this isn't okay, and was never okay, by what error did it slip through before, and what can we do about it?".
A nice step would be the accepting of responsibility on Apple's part. "You know, we made a mistake and your app should never have gotten through. It's only through our own error that it got through in the past. We understand that this error caused you to invest more. Because of the sudden change of direction from us that you, the developer, are experiencing, we are liable to you for such-and-such." Maybe "such-and-such" is an expedited approval chain for revisions that attempt to address the issues. Maybe "such-and-such" is financial compensation if no mitigation is possible.
The approval process needs more transparency (so fewer developers are surprised by rejections), and needs to scale better (so the error rate doesn't skyrocket when usage outstrips projections).
Mass Jailbreaking.
Its not unreasonable to ask that Apple publicize what their requirements are. Companies are investing time and money developing apps that increase the value of Apple's product. The least Apple can do is have published guidelines of what is allowed in their appstore. Then a company can look at those guidelines and know if a product they're planning isn't allowed. If its not allowed then the compnay need not waste anymore time on it.
Yes Apple has the power to reject apps from its store. But just because you have power doesn't mean you should be a dick about it.
1. Release version 1.2
2. Let everyone know that Apple is going to pull it
3. ????
4. Profit!
5. Release version 1.3.
--- What?
IANAL, but I know how to say laches, thanks to the course in contract law that reading Groklaw amounts to...
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
And you will get burned. I feel for the OP. Apple approved 3 releases of his software, then yanked it? Wow. Yeah, screw developing for the iPhone.
there's ONE official Android app store.
Which isn't open to every country, not even every industrialized country. Most developers don't want to have to go through a supported country's immigration process just to be able to sell apps.
... you are bound to get burned. Folks: do not work for a system (appstore) that gives you no right whatsoever, if you do you will eventually get screwed. Obvious, isn't it?
If your app doesn't match up to the level of quality that Apple require[sic], then it's a message
And given that the very things that make your app meet Apple's quality control one day can be disqualification criteria the next day means the answer is simple:
1. Don't write any innovative, interesting, and unique applications, or
2. Write your applications for another platform where the arbitrary rules are less ambiguous or do not exist.
Apple certainly has the right to kick out "any old piece of crap" should they choose, but after the application has enjoyed sales, and as a result of an arbitrary rules change? Well, yes, they still have the right.
The trouble is, people write applications because they want to make a profit, and arbitrary vague rules will lead the best developers to stop putting massive effort into supporting a platform that may not support them. You'll still have plenty of developers who will take the risk, but the ones who put massive amounts of effort into their applications only to have them yanked because the background was just the wrong shade of puce or Steve's chair hit the "REJECT" button instead of the wall that particular moment will eventually learn to go elsewhere.
Other app stores are fledgling and not as well-organized, you say? Agreed. But who do you need to push to other platforms to make the other platforms succeed?
DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
There is no alternative girl. Although as of lately, she dumped me and fucked my ass, she is the only one. It really is my ex-girlfriend, or the highway.
Yeah, well, that's just like... your opinion, man. You have every right to live in the fucking past.
But these engineers and bloggers are some serious whiners. If Wal-Mart or Target or any large store or any store, for that matter, stops carrying some real-world product, does it make it onto slashdot? Hell no! Because that's the nature of business. Your customers can stop buying your product at any time, even when those customers are resellers. Why do these people feel that it is their God-given right to sell products through these istores or whatever?
Talk to any successful business owner about the concept of having only one customer for you business and they'll say you're stupid.
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
It's unreasonable to ask Apple to do anything they don't want to. It's their damned platform and they can be as pricky as they want.
It's also unreasonable for Apple to expect their developer base to remain loyal after being ass-reamed by Steve with sandy vaseline.
This sort of thing will work itself out. Likely not to Apple's long-term benefit, IMHO.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
It really is Apple's way or the highway...
And has been from the start. My tip: take the highway - you'll be better off in the long run.
Guy develops for closed platform, has no control over platform. News at eleven!
There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare.
Apparently you missed that the railroad boom, the gold rush and the oil boom all happened in the Wild West. The craziness over on the Android platform? That's called opportunity.
Oh, and saying there is no alternative platform when there, A) clearly is, and B) it is now outselling iPhone is ... shortsighted. Android is evolving at a speed that neither Microsoft, RIM or Apple can keep pace with.
-- $G
> Companies are investing time and money developing apps that increase the value of Apple's product
Building castles on sand. So people building on free software are more pragmatic than even slashdotters think.
> 4. Our website contained a contest... After 10,000 people downloaded our free app and created a free character, we would give a free iPod Touch to one of them. Apple called us today and said that we aren't allowed to give away Apple products from a website associated with the app. They said we can give away a Zune HD, but not an iPod Touch. :-|
Why don't you give away a Google Android? ;-)
I notice a handful of developers who have a beef with the way Apple runs their App store, but do any users actually care? Are there hundreds of thousands of users who are hating Apple right now because Apple is denying the users access to a killer application that they simply can't live without?
The whole issue surrounding the app store seems really contrived to me. Users who actually care about wanting to run specific types of applications will buy a phone that they can run applications on. Users who want an iPhone will buy an iPhone. Plenty of huge corporations like Starbucks, Bank of America and others have developed iPhone apps. Fandango has an app for finding movies that runs on both the iPhone and the G1 (and probably other Android phones too). If there was a huge problem with Apple exclusivity, I'd expect corporations like BofA and the like to be complaining that Apple is preventing them from offering their customers the same kind of applications that are offered on Android.
Other than some niche apps, there doesn't seem to be a real problem. If app devs really have uber ideas for applications then they should be able to build those apps on alternative platforms and the users will come. If they do build them and the users don't show up, the app obviously wasn't all that compelling in the first place.
I'm not a big Apple fan, but I recognize their right to tailor their product as they see fit. It isn't as if they are the entire mobile device market. They aren't even half of it. There are alternatives. As much as I dislike the Apple fanboys when they trot out their tired, "You aren't the target market" meme, it seems to fit in this case. Apple isn't targeting developers. They are targeting end users.
It's time to retire the Bill Gates Borg photo and replace it with a Steve Jobs Borg photo for Apple stories.
That doesn't work though, whereas Bill Gatus of Borg assimilated Steve Jobs simply kills.
Falcon
BTW, I went to an Apple store today for tech support for my MacBook Pro. There, seeing my hard disk drive has 3 partitions, OS X, User Home, and Ubuntu, the tech asked what version of Linux I had installed. I said I didn't have it installed but I was planning on installing Ubuntu. I'm not sure when I will install it but it won't be until I install Snow Leopard. I may install both on an external drive first for testing.
Should there be a Law?
Anybody bother to check to see if the app has been pulled before providing a billion web hits to this app? No? Great! I have a feeling my app is about to be pulled too.
This is the root of the problem:
> There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature
> and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare. It really is Apple's way or the highway...."
Thousands of apps already in the Android store but for too many koolaid drinkers this kind of thinking still persists. No, the Android world will never be as neat and tidy as Steve's closed hell. Freedom is messy, either suck it up and deal with that reality or put yer damned chains on and stop bitching when they bind. In the end you have to make a decision. If Freedom worth the price or isn't it? Because it isn't free and Steve's fascist dictatorship is oh so shiny and the trains all run on time.
Stop developing for the App Store and it either dies or changes to attract developers back, just that simple. Even if he looked stupid doing the monkey dance, Balmer was right that it is all about "Developers, Develops, Developers!" However if the developers are supine and just sit and take whatever Jobs dishes out and yells "Thank you Sir, May I have another!" you really can't get upset about being abused.
Democrat delenda est
Android is obviously the future, and his crits could hold true for any early tech. Duh.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Apple should allow developers to set up an alternative app store for the iPhone. Let the users decide where to go. After all, if it's my device I should have the right to put whatever the fuck I want on it.
Apple lets app developers limit availability to the models that support their desired features- something that's only feasible when there are only a handful of models.
Or you could, you know, develop an api that allows the developer to specify which features are necessary, which is then used by the android app store to limit that apps availability. I'm developing for the Android now, and the framework is very nicely thought out, thank you. Fragmentation is a red herring. Dan Morrill at Google on 'fragmentation' http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/05/on-android-compatibility.html
People have been saying this for years now (myself included) but no one will listen until they themselves get burned. You're wasting your time. Just move to Android.
I moved to Android and it is great - I'll give you the UI isn't as shiny as the iphone, but it is better in every other way. iMHO it is a far better device than the iPhone - hands down.
That's what happens when you're a monopoly, you get to act like a douche and nobody can do dick about it. And since Apple owns over 70% of the PMP market and 90%+ of the HDD PMP market, well that means they can pretty much do anything they want. Why developers trip over themselves to develop for a platform that can have all their investment thrown into the shitter on a whim is beyond me though.
of course their ability to act like a monopoly may be coming to an end with the DoJ widening the scope of their investigation. If Apple did what has been alleged and threatened anyone who participated in Amazon sales then they should be busted, and be busted hard. Using your leverage to get better deals for yourself is one thing, using it to hamstring competitors is another. But TFA just shows any company that spends any serious time and money developing for iStuff is just crazy. Better to just spend a weekend making a fart app and be done with it.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
you can abuse your customers all you want and get away with it.
Yes legally you get away with it but you may lose market share.
comparing Apple and MS really is apples and oranges.
True enough.
I don't have a smartphone yet, but when I do get around to getting one, it'll probably be an Android phone, the way things are looking.
Neither do I and like you when I do get one it will probably an Android, I want choices as to what apps I run. That's why after waiting in anticipation for months for the iPad to come out I decided I didn't want one myself. Wanting to use one for photography I fully expected it to have the full OS X OS, higher hardware specs, and be able to install the same software on it as I can install on my Mac. Something like the Modbook Pro with it's Wacom digitizer. Now, I'll wait for Linux tablets.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
You can't have it both ways. On one hand the article says that apple is pulling apps, on the other hand the article says that the app store is wonderful because it is not the "wild west".
Well, time to go back to Symbian. The case is really good:
Symbian's worldwide market share is larger than Apple, Android and Blackberry put together
You can write apps in Qt / C++, JavaME, Python, Javascript/CSS/HTML, Flash Lite
You can distribute the app any way you like - there are several app stores and if you don't like them, set up your own
Nobody tells you what you can and can't do - as long as end user can make emergency calls and uninstall the app if they want to
The whole OS is open source and available under EPL, and Symbian is non-profit
Symbian's done a lot of work in the last year and it is paying off.
Anyone who thinks that the Constitution should be a living document, and that the rule of law should be replaced by the consensus of 9 people as to what's just, should draw the obvious analogy here. Apple is making things up as they go along, and it is the unpredictability, not the rules per se, that cause people headaches. If people knew this rule in advance, they wouldn't develop this kind of app. It is the opening that other platforms have to surpass Apple, even with Apple's headstart, but to do it they will have to have at least a comparable integration and buying experience for the customer, and so far no one has managed that.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
but I can tell you that I am so tired of the "father knows best" attitude that Apple has been shoving down our throats that I'm going to sell my iPhone and buy an Android phone as soon as my AT&T contract is up in November. I'll probably switch to T-Mobile at the same time, due to them charging $60/month less for the same plan I'm "enjoying" with AT&T and the iPhone.
How can a company be prepared to invest into a platform that can change at any time, cutting you off and kicking you out, with no course of action but to whine on some no-name blog
You picked the right option. I've seen this countless times. When the naughty apps were pulled from the store while the big names were left up, like Sports Illustrated Swimsuit.
It is Apple's shameful approval process which destroys competition from small name developers who don't have the backing of a larger corporation. What if a small developer wanted to make a swimsuit app? Tough luck, you're no Sports Illustrated, kiddo.
You're left with two options: complain and hope people notice (you're in luck!) or try to get the backing of a major corporation.
One of the developers just wrote to Steve Jobs on a whim, and Steve wrote back?
Plus the app is still in the store.
PLUS this guy knocks android as "the wild west", ALL in the same statement. Sounds like FUD and PR all at the same time
-
What a total hypocrite ... he was just fine with living in the dictatorship until they came for *him*. Then suddenly he sees a problem.
There's been enough publicity by now that anybody investing in the iPhone ecosystem should know they are doing a deal with the devil. Don't complain, just suck it up and take your investment to a platform that won't screw you over.
The DoJ is investigating some of "Apple's business practices".
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
No. That's not how society works.
It may be unreasonable to expect Apple to do do anything they don't want to, but it is most certainly not unreasonable to ask.
Princess Aura: Look! Water is leaking from her eyes.
The Emperor Ming: It's what they call tears, it's a sign of their weakness.
The app is widgety. Sorry dev, you should have known the risk you were running. Like screensavers, photo frame apps are widgety. The same thing goes for dashboard apps. A photo frame with a dashboard? That's double-widgety! What was the dev expecting? Apple wants to own their UI. That's their area, and they don't want 3rd party devs crowding it. Hopefully they can do a better job communicating the difference between widgets and legitimate apps. It's better that Apple kill the app early, than let it linger on. It makes their position clearer to other devs, who will hopefully avoid making the same mistake. It also spares the dev from sinking more time and energy into his dead-end. This is the App Store, folks. Where the money happens. Apple owns the game; you have to think hard about their interests and point of view. They're trying to steer the ship in a certain direction, and you need to do your best to understand where it's going. The written policies can only go so far, because this market is more dynamic than their rule makers can keep up with. With the app approval process, Apple is trying to implement their platform marketing strategy at the ground level--app by app. That's not freakin' easy, folks. Think about it. If Apple had a monopoly, they could sit back and relax, and let their app market sort itself out. But no, competition is fierce. To survive, they must take the product to the next level. Make it more perfect, more marketable than the competition. That's why they're worrying over these app approvals. They're proactively managing the developer base, to keep them in line with their marketing strategy. Whine if you want to. But the dev had a point: the Android market is just not there yet, revenue-wise. Maybe it will get there next year, or the year after. Maybe. In the mean time, smart money is on iPhone OS.
Billcutus can stay; he's practically an institution at this point.
As for Jobs, I think an image of him done up in the fashion of Big Brother from the "1984" ad would be more fitting.
No, Jobs was basically kicked out of the company after a power struggle with the board of directors in 1983.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
and that the probability is
- Directly Proportional to Dollars Generated
- Inversely Proportional to coding required
And if an OS or API tweak would make the Apple version look Hot and your 'Fan Submitted Beta' look lame . . .
OF course this is not how Steve would see it, and having signed all your rights away by agreeing to post you app in the app store, you are SOL.
All you iPhone/pad owners are getting exactly what you wanted. You are getting a quiet suburb, a gated community that keeps out all the riff-raff and ugly people. Apple heard you scrreaming about the horrible, horrible freedom that you had to deal with and they offered you a way out, and all it cost you was $100/mo plus the timid acceptance that papa Steve knows what's best for you. THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED, isn't it bitch? That's right. Is there an app to get your soul back? There was, but They kicked it out of the store. You suck from the teet we tell you to and you thank us for it.
To have rule of law, you need to know what the laws are (or at least be able to look 'em up, the ones that apply to you).
The more I see stories like this the more I think Steve Jobs (may his turtleneck never sag) is losing the plot and turning into some kind of digital Caligula.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
It's their damned platform and they can be as pricky as they want.
No. That argument already commits a serious error. You own the phone. You get to decide what runs on it. Even if you want to argue that Apple decides the base platform, in this case (certainly not the first) they have reduced the functionality of a device you own.
This sort of thing will work itself out. Likely not to Apple's long-term benefit, IMHO.
Steve Jobs could rape a busload of nuns and his fans would point out that some consider habits as fetishwear and anyway, they should have flown instead of taking the bus.
It is not unreasonable to enter into a contract with Apple and expect them to keep to the rules of the contract though. This is clearly not happening.
Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
There exist such things as anti-trust laws for this very reason. It's not illegal to have a monopoly, but once a company has a monopoly, they're not allowed to do anti-competitive things like arbitrarily disable the competition and any potential competitors.
It's too bad the iPod Touch doesn't quite have a monopoly on mp3 players, and that Washington is so pro-corporate these days.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Apple is a fashion company, their long-term buisness plan is to dump everything and do something else.
but I didn't think Apple had a monopoly at all. They still have competition from RIM, WinMo, and growing competition from the Android phones.
The iPhone has some competition but it has the largest market share. Another version of the iPhone / Android market share figures has some statistics on the market share of the competition. In May the iPhone market share increased 2.5% from 30.3% to 32.8% while the Androids, with more than one company making handsets, increased from 5.3% to 6.2%. Even though iPhones have leads in both being on the market and in market share, it's markets share increased more than 2 tymes as mush as Androids did. But because its market share is so small Android increased the percentage of handsets sold as a total. TFA I link to says of Android, "Its share growing by 17% in May, while the iPhone's share only grew by 8.25%" Think about it, Android handsets are being released pretty frequently whereas it's been months since the last iPhone update came out, so being the latest it should have better uptake figures but it doesn't.
I was talking about MS and their monopoly on desktop OSes and office software when I was talking about monopolies.
I agree MS has a monopoly in desktop OSes and in office suites but there are others. I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro and for my office suite I use NeoOffice, the native Mac port of OpenOffice.org. Under the desk I have 2 tower PCs, an NT4 and a Linux PC. In storage there's more Windows PCs. I have MS Office on one of them and OpenOffice on others.
Yes, patents severely distort the market. They were a good idea at one time, but they've been completely abused and mutated beyond their original intentions. Software patents in particular are a very bad idea.
I agree. Patents may of served a good purpose at one tyme but they've out lived the good and now hinder progress. And I believe software patents are among the worst ideas economically and for progress.
Falcon
Oh, BTW perhaps using "monopoly" is the wrong word describing iPhones market share, it's nothing like MS's market share of OSes and Office suites. It is however dominate. And while I believe in ending patents I'm not sure about ending copyrights. The duplication and copying of art and literature is easy and cheap whereas duplicating hardware can be expensive. I however believe copyright terms need to be shortened, not lengthened like they have been. The original copyright term was 14 years with one 14 year extension possible. I'd make it 7 years at most with no extension.
Should there be a Law?
You buy a locked phone from a carrier that's known for turning shit off, you get a locked phone with shit turned off. You buy a phone from a company who uses a walled garden as a selling point, you end up in a walled garden.
Answer: There are lots of companies that make smart phones that don't have walled gardens. There are plenty of them available as unlocked phones.
Want freedom? Choose a company that believes in it. My wife's Nokia Symbian phone is all that an iPhone should be, and more, and we bought it unlocked so anyone tells us we can't use a feature we can rip their SIM out of it, ship it back to them in itty bitty little pieces, and tell them to go fuck themselves.
Want freedom? Choose freedom.
Just don't do business with a company that has a long history of the reverse of what you want and come boo-hooing when they do what they always do.
It's sad, really. Apple started as the "computer for the masses", and ended up being what they are today. Makes me want to cry, sometimes.
They make some really nice stuff, but it's not worth what it costs. And I'm not talking about money.
But that's my opinion. Fortunately, Apple does not have a monopoly on smartphones. In fact, I'm coming close to believing they don't have a "smart" phone at all. Just the iPhone.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
"It's unreasonable to ask Apple to do anything they don't want to. It's their damned platform and they can be as pricky as they want."
Isn't that what got Microsoft in trouble? Idiots that repeat history are the worst of the idiots.
Good.
No, seriously, great.
If Apple exposes the fallacy of the walled garden by making more people aware of the importance of freedom in their selections of equipment, then they are doing a public service in my book.
I do feel sorry for the iFruited masses for the pain they are about to experience in this learning experience, but my pappy always taught me by letting me learn my lessons the hard way if I didn't listen up when he tried to tell me what I was about to do was stupid.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Apple started as the "computer for the masses"
Well, not really. Maybe in the really early days. The Apple II was priced higher than the 'regular people' computers of the time. The Macintosh was priced WAY WAY higher than the 'regular people' computers of the time.
Apple has always produced more expensive than average hardware.
Which is part of the charm of it for some of their customers. Like the kid on the block who had the Schwinn bike. Everybody else hated him, but he thought his bike made him the coolest.
The more I see stories like this the more I think Steve Jobs (may his turtleneck never sag) is losing the plot and turning into some kind of digital Caligula.
More like the second coming of Howard Hughes.
No. That argument already commits a serious error. You own the phone. You get to decide what runs on it.
So jailbreak your phone then.
Apple's not telling you you can't run xyz on your phone. Apple's saying you can't DISTRIBUTE xyz through a store they own and operate. Should I be able to demand that Apple let me sell my fresh strawberries in their retail stores? They're really tasty...
no-name blog...
Ask Me About... The 80's!
I can see why the developers might get pissed off about this treatment, but after all, Apple does have form for capricious decisions as to what apps are permitted. The only way developers are going to get equitable treatment from Apple is to cut off their air-supply by telling them to stick it.
If I were in the business, I would be focusing my attention on the Android market. Rather than (as the submission suggests) whining that the platform is "immature" and that Android app stores are a "wild west" (though I don't really see what's wrong with the latter), it might be worth making an attempt to improve them.
It's their damned platform...
When I buy an iPhone, it's my platform.
When you worship a dictator with bad facial hair; and then act surprised when all of a sudden you are speaking German and eating nothing but sauerkraut, you've got nobody to blame but yourself.. and I'm not talking about Hitler...
Dude, you're getting a Dell... (sound of marijuana smoke being sharply inhaled...)
Ask Me About... The 80's!
Closed systems will always loose to open systems--might take some time. But market forces catch up. The TRS-80 and Apple II had the market. Then came IBM with the PC. Apple vanished.
Apple created some great new products and bounced back. Unfortunately, Apple seems to have forgot why they lost all their market share. Personal Computers are fragmenting--there was a time when analysts used to predict when every house hold would have a computer. Remember those days?
Now everything from game consoles, phones, netbooks, touch pads, and who knows what next is replacing the personal computer. What will win in the end? A closed system with amazing DRM that forces the customer to buy all their media/programs/etc from one source? Or an open system giving the customer the freedom to choose?
There is an open API on iPhone OS. You have to collect your own money, but this app, whoosh displays Twitter feeds and photos, can easily be done there.
If you want open, use open.
Tim Bray wrote about this situation years ago: http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePlace (and I think I heard the "sharecropping" term used from earlier, too). Essentially, when developers work on a platform owned by someone else, you are fully at their mercy.
My business: Farstrider Studios.
Alas, it is time to regret that Jobs got a new liver. Perhaps did he got one from Castro, Mussolini or Stalin ?
If apple is so evil, why do people keep buying their stuff? Surely people can speak with their wallets and support companies that aren't so restrictive of people using their products.
with no course of action but to whine on some no-name blog[?] There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare. It really is Apple's way or the highway...."
...or just stop slaving away for Apple, engrossing their egos and their inflated market cap.
I mean: what's up with you folks? Smart enough to write software, but still so terribly dumb to realize that you're being taken advantage of?
Sheesh. You remind me of these cows in Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide.
agreed, mod this guy up
It's time to retire the Bill Gates Borg photo and replace it with a Steve Jobs Borg photo for Apple stories.
Why can't we have both? Yes, Steve Jobs has relegated his customer base to peasants and iSlaves, only allowed to run the software he blesses, look at the portions of the web he deems suitable, and operate within the walled-in apple orchard he has in a very authoritarian way decreed. Yes, he employs Orwellian speech in much the same way as Microsoft (describing his attack on the free nature of the Internet as "freedom from porn"), but that doesn't make Microsoft any less of an abusive monopoly.
We need two Icons, one for Bill Gates of Borg, and one capturing the essence of iSlavery. Perhaps two wrists cuffed together with shackles in the form of an iPhone?
I certainly wouldn't "retire" the Bill Gates of Borg icon or replace it. We now have two aggressive corporations aspiring to trample and eradicate our freedoms, it would be foolish to pretend one has "replaced" the other. Both are there, actively attacking our freedoms to enhance their bottom lines, through all means legal and semi-legal. We should have two icons emphesizing and reminding us of that fact.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Optimal solution for me would be iPhone + open source development with open source licences .. but I guess that's not going to happen. But we have to remember here that Apple is still acting with money in mind. When they start acting with something else than money in mind, maybe we will see what we dream of. Maybe we need to let them know ?
GeoKone.NET
It is only his immense wealth that saved Steve Jobs' life after the liver transplant. He runs a very high risk of getting a cancer relapse, especially with his very obvious job intensity leading to heightened stress levels. If Steve Jobs does die, Apple will fold. Not immediately but it will fold within ten years or so, max. Despite all the crap with Windows and Linux, I kind of like to think the OS I'm using isn't dependent on the well-being of one man.
You guys have it all wrong. Steve Jobs is a closet Android lover and is subconsciously pushing the market towards it.
Apple *could* have TCRs for application submissions in the same way that Microsoft and Sony do for their consoles, but why bother?
The cost of entry for a developer is dirt cheap in comparison to consoles, and if Apple had "real" TCRs to enforce testing each app would be expensive. If the average income of an app is less than a few hundred dollars it is absolutely not worth it to them. Especially when they can just tell you to fuckoff at any time based on their current arbitrary system based on notes scribbled by Jobs while he's on the toilet. (hyperbole)
There are enough people clamoring to be developers that they don't give a rats ass about being fair to you, because you mean *nothing*.
You have no leverage whatsoever.
If there were a higher cost of entry and developers united to make demands it might mean something. But even if you get together a few dozen developers to take a stand there are thousands of devs with a Mini, an iPod, and a 100 bucks who don't care about fair.
Don't expect this pattern to change any time soon.
Why are people afraid to have their own online market? There are plenty of opportunities with Symbian and Maemo and Android, you do not in any way whatsoever have to touch the iphone in any way and still make money from these markets.
There would be a real benefit in an online marketplace for cellphone software in general, but there's no one stopping you in creating your own online marketplace for your stuff for any/all platforms you have desire to publish, which isn't so monotheistic as the Iphone platform.
Use the internet, use the power of having full control yourself, make your own marketplace.
This is why I don't develop for Apple platforms any longer. Courting developers then pulling the rug out from under them goes way back: A/UX, OpenDoc, HyperCard, the AppleScript double-fake (it's going away! no it's not!). Apple is not good to its developers. I'd much rather tie myself to Microsoft, which values developers. As long as you don't look like you're getting too much market clout, of course.
Actually, I'd never develop again against a proprietary platform if I could help it. It's putting too much trust in the platform owner. It's not that the platform owners are hostile (although sometimes you wonder...), but they can decide next quarter they're in a totally different business if they want to, and they don't see the problems that makes for you as *their* problem.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Exactly. I think if people are stupid enough to spend money to write software for requirements they don't have then they deserve what they get.
It's not like apple's behavior is unexpected from apple. This is like playing russian roulette and being pissed one of you got shot.
Apple is trying to keep a tight handle on what is going on with the apps that are coming out of the app store every company has stories like this. So far apple has done a good job I have no complains about the app store.
http://www.thetechnologygeek.org
When they are declared a monopoly in the mobile device application sales market, they won't be. Removing apps for silly reasons like this is plainly anti-competitive.
Developing an iPhone app is not a "brain-dead, no-work easy alternative". You have to make a decision to write the app using arcane tools with a non-transportable framework, and very little understanding about the window of opportunity that might bring you rewards for your efforts. Deciding to write an app for the iPhone at this point is like being an author and deciding to write a novel to sell for five dollars on Amazon, but worse, because a novel could at least be re-publlished somewhere else... Although trying to charge real money somewhere else might be hard after racing to the bottom. To make things worse, Apple is carrying forth this new marketing strategy and trying to use if for the iPad platform as well, which may or may not work out that well over time. Just my opinion.
How could they possibly ever be declared a monopoly in the mobile device application sales market? The iPhone, for all its popularity, is still in the hands of the minority of users.
Frankly, forcing Apple to open up would be bad for the marketplace at large. Apple restricts their own sales by engaging in silly restrictive behavior like this, and encourages people to explore the other available alternatives (Symbian, Blackberry, Android, etc).
Apple opening their marketplace would simply make the iPhone a more attractive device, and probably push them closer to a monopoly position.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
You're misdefining unreasonable to mean unrequired.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Actually, I should have used "expect" instead of "ask"
"It's unreasonable to expect Apple to do anything they don't want to"
I just read this morning that Apple has also pulled "iFart" from the App Store for the iPad because the application "is of little functional value". So they are pulling applications because they emulate desktops (have too much function), they are pulling applications that have similar functions to what exists on the iP{hone,ad,od}, and they are pulling applications because they serve no useful (in Apple's opinion) function.
I'd be the last one on this planet to defend the utility of a fart noises application. But it's a good example of them ruining a relationship with someone who has sold a shitload of copies of an obviously popular application in the App Store.
With some platforms, the problem is getting your application noticed. Apparently, with Apple, it's all about NOT getting your application noticed.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Jailbreak it? Excuse me, that's not an option for most- and without that store, it dilutes at least a good
part of the selling point of MAKING applications for the iPhone/iPad in the first place.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
What gets me is that they liken the alternatives like the "Wild West".
If you want something other than the "Wild West", you'd better be prepared to face the real prospects of what you're seeing now with Apple's store situation. And, while it's a "Wild West" situation with the Android App Store, I'd hardly categorize it as a "nightmare" as the article's claiming.
You either want the walled garden with all that comes with it or you want the freedom to produce your apps and not have a capricious vendor pull the plug on you unless you make an unstable or malware application. You can't get the best of both worlds- it can't, won't ever work any differently because of the nature of the beasts in question. CHOOSE.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I see now why people are so angry at the 'murky' nature of the App Store, and I'm starting to agree with them. My Frame was approved by Apple 3 times (once for each version we released), and ... now, at version 1.2 they decide it's to be removed? How can a company be prepared to invest into a platform that can change at any time, cutting you off and kicking you out, with no course of action but to whine on some no-name blog[?] There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare. It really is Apple's way or the highway....
1. If your only software development is a single iPhone OS app, you need to diversify
2. If you want to make money quickly on the App Store, write a game not a util app. Actually, follow #1 above and write both!
3. Really? You're pissed because some knuckle head at Apple made a mistake approving versions 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2? It's not like you were on version 3.0 of the app, you were on version 1.2. Again, if this was your only app and your only source of income you were not going to be developing for iPhone OS for very long, anyway.
All of us doing development work for the iPhone OS have to deal with the "murky" parts of the SDK Agreement, but to run headlong into the murkiness and then get pissed when something you had to know was on shaky ground vis-a-vis the Agreement anyway (had you read and understood it) gets panned is a bit disingenuous at best. Hell, I had an app idea die right in my hands because the apps can't send SMS/MMS messages. Just not possible for obvious and rational security reasons, but still ended up being a loss for me. Oh well, next app! The market is huge, there are plenty of openings still in other verticals, write more apps.
At this rate I expect him to come out on stage at the next developer conference with his feet in iTissue boxes , with grotesquely long fingernails and talk about how his next phone will be made entirely of wood~
This is just..odd. You can say it's about the experience, but then why have 3rd party apps at all?
Android will eat his sales if he doesn't start realizing that in the 21st century, people like to control their device. Even people who claim that just want it to work want to control their device. Has anyone not loaded an app for some reason?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Apple could still solve this by differentiating between "approved" and "non-approved" applications, but still offering both for sale.
I think about this in terms of Synaptic as found in most Debian-based Linux distros (my experience with Synaptic is mostly through Linux Mint). I have a magnificently huge library of applications that I may choose from, and there are controls and checkboxes that allow me to set my level of "safe/stable" versus "cutting edge/unstable". By manipulating those sliders and tickyboxes, I can easily say "I want LTS levels of stable" or "I want nightly builds that might not even compile well and could cause my OS to self-destruct".
If I find something that isn't even available in those libraries, I can even download the .DEB file and install it myself, or download and compile the source if I really want to get my geek on.
In other words, I can choose a range of options starting with "walled garden in a comfy straitjacket" and going all the way to "Wild West featuring frequent drunken gunfights", all with a relatively simple set of controls on a single screen.
Apple has a vested interest in keeping true malware out. I get that. I applaud them for their efforts in this direction. Honestly.
But the whole concept of denying benign and formerly profitable apps because they changed a set of unwritten and ambiguous rules seems, well, unfortunate. For Apple.
At the end of the day, their platform, their decision, and it's one of the reasons the only bit of iFruitery I own is an iPod Touch, and that only because I won it in a writing contest a couple of years ago.
It's a nice device, but I've let the credit card associated with my account expire so I can't even install free applications or application updates any more, and I'm getting nervous about giving them a new card number with their recent behavior. One day, I'll make up a $5 limit temporary card and give it to them, I suppose.
But I look at it sometimes - the elegance of its construction and design, the almost magic UI design decisions that went into taking advantage of that teensy little screen. I marvel at how well executed a device it really is. I think of the smart and resourceful people who really poured a lot into this almost magical little gizmo.
Then I think about how much of its potential is wasted because of Apple's various decisions. It's a real shame.
But they are Apple's decisions to make.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
"despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare. It really is Apple's way or the highway...."
I usually here this argument from IPhone developers. Besides the fragmentation of the Android platform, and playing with both, it just seems that developing for the IPhone is risky at best. At anytime your work can be rejected by God-Send-Apple for no apparently valid reasons, as we see with this story once more.
This doesn't happen with Android.
Oh, and there really is NO difference between the Apple Store and the Android Market from and end-user perspective: they both are apps from which you can download other apps at the press of a finger, and sometimes with a credit card number. They are both sorted by categories, have a search function and delivers an installed app on your phone/pod/pad/whatever.
In brief, you sound like an Apple fanboy in distress....stop the fanboyism, you'll get less distressed...
If you didn't know Steve Jobs is draconian in his treatment of developers, you haven't been paying attention.
I'm not some Microsoft/*NIX fanboy here to bash Apple. I was working IT in the Mac world for years, and the only thing that shocked me more than the way Apple treats users is the way Apple treats developers.
What's good and bad about Microsoft over the years is that they generally bend over backwards to let developers do any damn thing they please, including things that are stupid, unsafe, and/or insane. Apple is good and bad for pretty much the opposite reasons.
"(Score:0, Troll)"
LOL... Way to make the parent's point, you dumb fucks.
Another idea is this: a very short term of perhaps 5 years I think would be good, but with multiple extensions allowed, for increasingly large amounts of money.
The only reason copyrights are supposed to be granted is as an incentive for creation of art and literature. Anything over 5 or 7 year terms almost takes the economic incentive away. If someone creates something they then make millions of dollars in a few years then there's no economic incentive to create more. If however artists have to keep creating new things to keep money coming in then there's plenty of incentive. I believe this yet I hope to start a photography business. While it is a hobby of mine, I am disabled and don't work so I want to be able to make some money from photography too. Hopefully I'll make enough to get back to college and get my degree.
Big companies like Disney will happily pay huge fees to extend their copyrights to the maximum, thereby pumping money into the government in return for this protection
I personally believe in small government, and liberty so I'm a real liberal and not one of today's fake ones, and believe a small limited government wouldn't need much revenue.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
If your application was approved for previous versions and the current version is a maintenance release, then they have to show that the maintenance caused glitches in their interface. Otherwise, I do believe you should go after them for stopping your product because it was superior to what Apple could offer, ergo conflict of interest such that YOU PAY with lost hours and lost dollars. I hate dealing with egocentric people or products. I suppose one could put APPLE and jobs in that category
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Its not unreasonable to ask that Apple publicize what their requirements are. Companies are investing time and money developing apps that increase the value of Apple's product. The least Apple can do is have published guidelines of what is allowed in their appstore. Then a company can look at those guidelines and know if a product they're planning isn't allowed. If its not allowed then the compnay need not waste anymore time on it.
Yes Apple has the power to reject apps from its store. But just because you have power doesn't mean you should be a dick about it.
I've got an easy solution to all of this people. Ban Apple. If your a developer, ban Apple. Unless you want to risk thousands developing a product that may or may not get "approved". Or if you want to get "approved" spend even more on development only to be told you are now "Unapproved". Yeah or nay. It's a game of craps at this point with Apple. Me? If I was in that game, I would know right from the get go whether the di were loaded. I wouldn't role that die with my money even if you promised to pay me whatever I lost. It's just a waste of time. You start off where you began or behind. Why do that to yourself. Because you might hit the lottery? The number 6 with the limp might come out front? Greed is the only reason. And even that, people are starting to recognize, isn't enough motivation. Ban Apple.
My grandma is Sarah Connor, Robot .. prepare to weep!
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
My mistake then.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?