"To put it another way, if you work minimum wage at Burger King and you download $200,000 worth of music, have you really deprived the music industry of $200,000? No." Yes. No. They never would have had that money, so they were not deprived. They did not lose $200,000US. They never even had the potential of getting the money from that individual.
Raymond's first line of attack was to dispute whether CEO Scott McNealy's claim that 'the open-source model is our friend,' has any substance when at the same time Sun is filling the coffers of Linux litigator SCO through licensing.
'It's pretty difficult to respond to this. He's so out of touch,' said Phipps. 'To even begin one must first address the error in his world view: He has taken quotes given by Scott McNealy to analysts and attacked them as if they were spoken to the Open Source community.
'In fact, Sun has contributed more to Open Source than anybody else bar Berkeley [University of California]. We understand Open Source better than anyone else. IBM is just wrapping itself in the flag, but it still behaves like an old-fashioned systems company. Sun is actually taking the risks. [Raymond] isn't well informed and is ignoring most of the stuff that Sun is doing. He completely ignores things like the Java Desktop, the Java Enterprise System running on Linux in its new servers. He's very selective about what he wants to write about.
He completely avoided the issue with their funding of SCO. Sun might have given Star Office to the OSS community, but they are not a friend of open source. Being one of the only 2 large corporations which where solely responsible for keeping SCO funded in its assault on Linux makes them suspect. Add to that, Linux is hitting Solaris sales now, they are even more suspect. I trust Sun about as far as I can throw them. I would like to know how they have contributed more then IBM though.
So what you are saying is a programmer can be incompetent, dumb as a box of rocks, and as long as the person has a professional looking resume they will get hired. A competent programmer who never learned how to make a decent resume will be passed over. Hmm...
I don't think everyone feels this way. I remember when the story was first put on/. a number of readers posted their outrage as well. This can come back and bite all the Free/OS browsers as well.
What about us Enix fanboys? I know I'm terrified that now my favorite RPG company will be ruined. I'm not the greatest fan of the FF series. I really did enjoy the Dragon Warrior (Dragon Quest) series though.
This is about licenses and what they can dictate. Both the BK license & the GPL dictate to anyone downstream what one can & can't do with the "product".
Not true. The GPL states that you can use the product any way you want. You can crack government agencies with it, use it to develop proprietary software or what ever. The restrictions are only on redistribution of software and code from the product. You are not limited in use of the the application. You can use it anyway you want, but you can not take the code, modify or incorporate it into something that does not conform with the GPL and distribute it. That sounds reasonable to me. With BitKeeper, they tell you how you can use the software, you don't get to look at the code, and you can't distribute it at all.
We may not like what he's doing, but as long as he's doing it within the boundaries of the law. All we can do is what others have suggested. Play by his rules ("he who writes the code,writes the rules") or go and make our own "ball".
I have no problem with the developer of the software. He can make it anyway he wants. I am concerned that software with these restrictions is being used to develop Free software.
This is RMS. We have known all along how much he hates proprietary software. He has always been consistent with that. Of course he's going to be mad, this is Linux, the so called flag ship of Free software, using a proprietary product in its development.
It just comes down to this. The current kernel developers don't have the same views that he has and they are angry that he expressed his views on their mailing list.
We might get annoyed at the likes of RMS but we need people like him around. And as far as those people who would want to criticize RMS for not putting out code to have a better source control then CVS, remember that the man has written quite a lot of software in his time.
Sorry Katz. I just don't see any new jobs opening up, or any new businesses offering new opportunities. In fact if you listien to quarterly reports, most of the established businesses arn't doing that well either. Consumers don't have that much money and they arn't going to spend it as they are afraid that they are going to lose their jobs too.
As an asside note, I lost my job as a software engineer for Iomega back in July. I couldn't find anything at all so like a moron I joined the Army like an idiot but at least my student loans will be paid off and I have won't have to worry about being laid off.
Then why did Dupont, Pfizer and many other of the pharmaceuticals spend 2 times as much on marketing as they did on R&D, according to a report released July 10 by Families USA, to develop the drugs?
If I spent a fortune researching and creating a drug, you bet I would be pissed if someone else started making my drug without my permission.
The excuse of R&D costs is a red haring as they are spending more to market the drugs then to produce them.
Sunspire is ok (and, I believe, happy) with everything so long as the project doesn't go into direct competition with Tux Racer 1.0.
Well if this spin off project did go into direct competition with Tux Racer WTF could he do? Honestly? The code that was released under the GPL will always be under the GPL and you can make it go into competition with the proprietary version. In fact the GPL version would have more claim to the name "Tux" than the other. I think it would be a cool thing if the free (as in speech) version cloberd the closed version.
Molog
OK business world: Go install KDE on everybody's desk and watch your business crumble.
Why would using GNOME or KDE cause all productivity to stop? I have been able to use these desktops to get work done. Can you give an example?
Get real folks. KDE and Gnome are nice for the tech crowd but they ain't for the business crowd.
What features that are needed for business are missing from either of these desktops that Windows has? There are database apps, office suites that are not so bad to use that people can not get work done with them. (Hint if DOS is still used by many buisness out there as I have seen then how would GNOME or KDE on Linux be worse?) You offer no examples, have no evidance and in a latter post complain that you got modded down. Unfortuanetly I have probably been trolled but if you can give some answers to my questions then I might change my opinion of you. Molog
I did like one bit where he brazenly states that adding instructions to a CPU won't speed it up. I think people will find the 386 faster than the 286, MMX faster than non-MMX and Altivec faster than non-Altivec. The comments are silly - of course new instructions can speed up a CPU. They just have to be useful and well implemented.
LOL! There was a lot more to the 386 that made it faster then the 286. It had more transistors a better design and many other features. You think the only difference between the two processors was extra instructions!?
Let's look at another example. The MMX Pentiums vs. non MMX Pentiums. The fastest non MMX Pentium was the Pentium 200MHz. If you compare the MMX 200MHz to the 200MHz non MMX the MMX will normally win but it is because it had more registers and faster cache. Almost no applications used the instructions.
One interesting thing to note in the RISC vs. CISC battle is that RISC won. How you ask? Well look at the Pentium Pro/2/3(really all the same core design). While they get passed the traditional large set of instructions they have a hardware layer that translates the instructions to the reduced set. I believe the Athlon works like this as well.
As to your Altivec inference, IBM's POWER chips without Altivec kick Motorola's ass. Altivec can have some advantages in VERY specific areas where vector graphics are being used. In regular applications it makes no difference.
Molog
The Jon Erikson account is a well known troll around here. It is amazing how well he gets moderated up all the time. When the moderators catch on he will disapear for a time and then come back. It is genius really. He is one of the best trolls that/. has I would say. Molog
How can he do this? Isn't OpenBSD under the BSD license? I thought that meant I could do what ever the heck I wanted with it. How can he stop it? Molog
Why can't Linux users just let Windows users use Windows, and Windows users just let Linux users use Linux?
Why can't Microsoft let Linux users use Linux, and stop trying to impose restrictions on what they can build in the OS? Why can't I buy a pre-made computer without the Windows tax?
People have the right to choose their OS!
You are right, people have the right to choose their OS but we have Microsoft here trying to take that right away. With MS coming out and saying that they need to educate (buy off) legislators to the dangers of open source that means they want to pass a law making it illegal. I have no problem with people using Windows and I think most people on/. don't mind that either as most of them use it. I think most people don't like being told what to do which is what MS is trying to do.
All of this hatred and "I'm not wrong, you're wrong" type stuff does nothing for either side.
I don't think this is what we are seeing here though. This is not Linus saying that Windows users suck. He is replying to allegations that open source is bad thing. Molog
As a businessman, I can shell out money for ergonomic keyboards and furniture, or I can purchase normal furniture and employ normal people and not have to worry about things like this.
Well it would be beneficial to your business to get the ergonomic keyboards and furniture anyway. You can get CTS weather you have the gene or not. It makes sense to get the other stuff as it lowers risk for everyone. The keyboards are priced about the same as normal ones if you know where to look. Can't speak for the chairs though. Molog
they've lately been using guns and taking out themselves as well as innocent people in the process of their revenge on the bullies.
Please tell me you have not bought into the great lie of the media. Kids are not going out a blowing each other away every day. It is a rare occurrence. You play it as if more shootings are happening all the time. The truth is there aren't as many. We only care because they are happening in suburban schools and didn't stay in the inner cities like they were supposed to. Molog
250 years of American government before slavery was outlawed nearly 100 years ago? Wow! I didn't know that we were that old. So the US government is > 350 years old. Darn and to think we only celbrated 200 years back in 1976. Molog
Good point. I was refering mainly to the 9x branch, sorry for not making the distinction. Although with stuff like macro viri hitting Outlook it is easier for propagation on an NT system. Molog
Unlike Windows and Linux, we have more than one Word Processor worth using.
What? Linux only has one word processor? Lets see there is the word processor that comes with Applixware, StarOffice, WordPerfect, Abiword and maybe some others I don't know about. You talk as though MS Word was available for Linux.
As for MacOS X being vunderable to virii, it has been out for over 8 months
The previous posters point was 2 fold. First the system with the larger installed base will tend to have more virus writers focused on it. It may have been out for 8 months but only in Beta. It hasn't been officially released. Most using it are professional programmers and people just trying it out. That is not enough to attract the attention of virus writers.
If MacOS X is so completely unimmune from viruses, lets see how many show up in the next year compared to Linux or Windows.
Well I haven't seen a virus worth talking about on Linux. Ever. The virus can only do real damage if the user was running as root or if it takes advantage of a security hole but you can bet that the security hole would be fixed making that virus worthless. Windows will always have viri. You can bet on it. Linux might end up with some viri written for it that affect stupid users but the only reason why Linux would have a virus written for it before the Mac would be because it would have a larger installed base. If MacOS X does achieve success then you could be unpleasantly surprised.
Well it appears that I was wrong on the MPEG format thing. I applogize to all about the misinformation. Seems that a little bit of knowledge is worse then none. Again sorry about the mistake. Had I moderator points I could use on myself I would mod me down. Molog
Slashdot Mirror
"To put it another way, if you work minimum wage at Burger King and you download $200,000 worth of music, have you really deprived the music industry of $200,000? No."
Yes.
No. They never would have had that money, so they were not deprived. They did not lose $200,000US. They never even had the potential of getting the money from that individual.
Molog
'It's pretty difficult to respond to this. He's so out of touch,' said Phipps. 'To even begin one must first address the error in his world view: He has taken quotes given by Scott McNealy to analysts and attacked them as if they were spoken to the Open Source community.
'In fact, Sun has contributed more to Open Source than anybody else bar Berkeley [University of California]. We understand Open Source better than anyone else. IBM is just wrapping itself in the flag, but it still behaves like an old-fashioned systems company. Sun is actually taking the risks. [Raymond] isn't well informed and is ignoring most of the stuff that Sun is doing. He completely ignores things like the Java Desktop, the Java Enterprise System running on Linux in its new servers. He's very selective about what he wants to write about.
He completely avoided the issue with their funding of SCO. Sun might have given Star Office to the OSS community, but they are not a friend of open source. Being one of the only 2 large corporations which where solely responsible for keeping SCO funded in its assault on Linux makes them suspect. Add to that, Linux is hitting Solaris sales now, they are even more suspect. I trust Sun about as far as I can throw them. I would like to know how they have contributed more then IBM though.
Molog
Molog
Molog
Zoomba... You didn't happen to play on Valhalla MUD back in the late 90's did you?
Ed
Molog
What about us Enix fanboys? I know I'm terrified that now my favorite RPG company will be ruined. I'm not the greatest fan of the FF series. I really did enjoy the Dragon Warrior (Dragon Quest) series though.
This is about licenses and what they can dictate. Both the BK license & the GPL dictate to anyone downstream what one can & can't do with the "product".
Not true. The GPL states that you can use the product any way you want. You can crack government agencies with it, use it to develop proprietary software or what ever. The restrictions are only on redistribution of software and code from the product. You are not limited in use of the the application. You can use it anyway you want, but you can not take the code, modify or incorporate it into something that does not conform with the GPL and distribute it. That sounds reasonable to me. With BitKeeper, they tell you how you can use the software, you don't get to look at the code, and you can't distribute it at all.
We may not like what he's doing, but as long as he's doing it within the boundaries of the law. All we can do is what others have suggested. Play by his rules ("he who writes the code,writes the rules") or go and make our own "ball".
I have no problem with the developer of the software. He can make it anyway he wants. I am concerned that software with these restrictions is being used to develop Free software.
Molog
Beeezt! Sorry try again. This is about using the software, the finished product, not copying the code and using it in another project.
Molog
It just comes down to this. The current kernel developers don't have the same views that he has and they are angry that he expressed his views on their mailing list.
We might get annoyed at the likes of RMS but we need people like him around. And as far as those people who would want to criticize RMS for not putting out code to have a better source control then CVS, remember that the man has written quite a lot of software in his time.
Molog
Sorry Katz. I just don't see any new jobs opening up, or any new businesses offering new opportunities. In fact if you listien to quarterly reports, most of the established businesses arn't doing that well either. Consumers don't have that much money and they arn't going to spend it as they are afraid that they are going to lose their jobs too.
As an asside note, I lost my job as a software engineer for Iomega back in July. I couldn't find anything at all so like a moron I joined the Army like an idiot but at least my student loans will be paid off and I have won't have to worry about being laid off.
If I spent a fortune researching and creating a drug, you bet I would be pissed if someone else started making my drug without my permission.
The excuse of R&D costs is a red haring as they are spending more to market the drugs then to produce them.
Well if this spin off project did go into direct competition with Tux Racer WTF could he do? Honestly? The code that was released under the GPL will always be under the GPL and you can make it go into competition with the proprietary version. In fact the GPL version would have more claim to the name "Tux" than the other. I think it would be a cool thing if the free (as in speech) version cloberd the closed version.
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
Why would using GNOME or KDE cause all productivity to stop? I have been able to use these desktops to get work done. Can you give an example?
Get real folks. KDE and Gnome are nice for the tech crowd but they ain't for the business crowd.
What features that are needed for business are missing from either of these desktops that Windows has? There are database apps, office suites that are not so bad to use that people can not get work done with them. (Hint if DOS is still used by many buisness out there as I have seen then how would GNOME or KDE on Linux be worse?) You offer no examples, have no evidance and in a latter post complain that you got modded down. Unfortuanetly I have probably been trolled but if you can give some answers to my questions then I might change my opinion of you.
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
LOL! There was a lot more to the 386 that made it faster then the 286. It had more transistors a better design and many other features. You think the only difference between the two processors was extra instructions!?
Let's look at another example. The MMX Pentiums vs. non MMX Pentiums. The fastest non MMX Pentium was the Pentium 200MHz. If you compare the MMX 200MHz to the 200MHz non MMX the MMX will normally win but it is because it had more registers and faster cache. Almost no applications used the instructions.
One interesting thing to note in the RISC vs. CISC battle is that RISC won. How you ask? Well look at the Pentium Pro/2/3(really all the same core design). While they get passed the traditional large set of instructions they have a hardware layer that translates the instructions to the reduced set. I believe the Athlon works like this as well.
As to your Altivec inference, IBM's POWER chips without Altivec kick Motorola's ass. Altivec can have some advantages in VERY specific areas where vector graphics are being used. In regular applications it makes no difference.
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
Why can't Microsoft let Linux users use Linux, and stop trying to impose restrictions on what they can build in the OS? Why can't I buy a pre-made computer without the Windows tax?
People have the right to choose their OS!
You are right, people have the right to choose their OS but we have Microsoft here trying to take that right away. With MS coming out and saying that they need to educate (buy off) legislators to the dangers of open source that means they want to pass a law making it illegal. I have no problem with people using Windows and I think most people on /. don't mind that either as most of them use it. I think most people don't like being told what to do which is what MS is trying to do.
All of this hatred and "I'm not wrong, you're wrong" type stuff does nothing for either side.
I don't think this is what we are seeing here though. This is not Linus saying that Windows users suck. He is replying to allegations that open source is bad thing.
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
Well it would be beneficial to your business to get the ergonomic keyboards and furniture anyway. You can get CTS weather you have the gene or not. It makes sense to get the other stuff as it lowers risk for everyone. The keyboards are priced about the same as normal ones if you know where to look. Can't speak for the chairs though.
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
Please tell me you have not bought into the great lie of the media. Kids are not going out a blowing each other away every day. It is a rare occurrence. You play it as if more shootings are happening all the time. The truth is there aren't as many. We only care because they are happening in suburban schools and didn't stay in the inner cities like they were supposed to.
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
What? Linux only has one word processor? Lets see there is the word processor that comes with Applixware, StarOffice, WordPerfect, Abiword and maybe some others I don't know about. You talk as though MS Word was available for Linux.
As for MacOS X being vunderable to virii, it has been out for over 8 months
The previous posters point was 2 fold. First the system with the larger installed base will tend to have more virus writers focused on it. It may have been out for 8 months but only in Beta. It hasn't been officially released. Most using it are professional programmers and people just trying it out. That is not enough to attract the attention of virus writers.
If MacOS X is so completely unimmune from viruses, lets see how many show up in the next year compared to Linux or Windows.
Well I haven't seen a virus worth talking about on Linux. Ever. The virus can only do real damage if the user was running as root or if it takes advantage of a security hole but you can bet that the security hole would be fixed making that virus worthless. Windows will always have viri. You can bet on it. Linux might end up with some viri written for it that affect stupid users but the only reason why Linux would have a virus written for it before the Mac would be because it would have a larger installed base. If MacOS X does achieve success then you could be unpleasantly surprised.
You waste your time, with the x86
Who said Linux only ran on x86?
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?