As far as I'm aware it only relies on the conflict between two assumptions: first, that intelligent life is common in the universe; and second, that intelligent life would be interested in exploration and communication, as we are. Neither of these assumptions is controversial.
Both are controversial.
The first assumption is controversial in that this is what the whole argument is trying to disseminate. The second is controversial in that one is:
a: Assuming that we have a firm grasp of what intelligent life actually is and that it and b: like a small section of humans, are interested in exploration and communication.
How do we know that we simply haven't heard this assumed intelligent life? If we have, how do we know what we are listening to isn't garbage? How do we know they're even interested or, more importantly, have even bothered to contact our civilization specifically?
The paradox also assumes that if aliens who are interested in communication and exploration are explicitly interested in us which may simply not be the case.
So we have several more assumptions and controversies which haven't even been addressed, more that I haven't even bothered to state here and yet somehow there is this idiotic paradox that keeps getting mentioned. That's the real paradox.
There is not one iota of evidence that there exists one other intelligent form of life in the universe. Go google for Fermi's paradox, I won't even give you the obligatory wikipedia link.
Fermi's paradox relies on too many assumptions to even be considered a valid argument. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you but let's at least use more quantifiable arguments than Fermi's tired assumption...
Yea, if they were a public service, not only would they not care about your privacy, they would be able to use illegal wiretaps to get personal information for usage of these silly ads.
It amazes me when people think the government is there to protect and serve them. Nah, not knocking the govt but it is run by the same people you can't stand, who make poor decisions for even worse reasons, who don't pick up their dog's poop, cut you off, don't open doors for women, etc... and it's the same type of people who through group thinking put them in office. Worse still, the govt has no bottom line so they effectively "Can't Go Out Of Business" meaning that they don't even have to worry about themselves, they can just go on... so at least the company/corp/whatever is looking out for someone- even if it is numero-uno.
I know this has been done to death but the first rule about fight club is, You DON'T Talk About Fight Club.
Gosh in people's rush to sound like they know something others didn't, or share info, or whatever your motivation is, sometimes it's really effing stupid.
Thanks for taking the time to post a reply, instead of just marking it down. At least we can discuss it this way, weather or not we agree is another matter. Ah we both know this too well... My post, while truthful in disagreeing with you, was just me trying to be as heavily sarcasm-laden as well hence the spiraling into bizarre ubsurdity:) I can't stand the disagreement-by-modding-down either... nonsensical sarcastic posts are much more productive and fun to read!
Wow! So I'm to take it that from this one article you now have all the information you need to call anyone that disagrees with you "mindless"!
Seems somewhat "narrow minded" to me. You must be a Republican!
Well that is specious reasoning. I'm not grandparent, a Republican, or anything else for that matter but not only did you misrepresent grandparent's quote but then you attack him by calling him narrow-minded, then you accuse him of being a Republican with the implication that all Republicans are narrow-minded!
It does not bode well for your case when you treat your enemy worse than they treat you. Learn some respect for other people's opinions (even if they are criticizing mindless Google-lovers), for narrow-minded people, for Republicans, and for Evil-Baby-Crushing-Google.
Anyone who has seen an M Night Shamylan movie or been involved in a Usenet discussion about UFO's can readily see that there is one glaringly obvious answer...
IT'S ALIENS GUYS!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!
It's not aliens. It's the new M N Shamylan/Al Gore movie, An Inconvenient Truth II. The rocks are us, we're dead and the desert is NYC in which we think the year is 2100 but really it's 5 billion years ago.
The Microsoft cup is half empty because it is full of holes. The Linux cup is half empty because many popular drinks only fit in the Microsoft cup.
Don't forget the Linux cup is only ever half full because most of the people holding Linux cups act like total pricks to those not in the know. You know who you are. Stop giving my mom a hard time when she asks a question. Maybe she was hoping you would like to help instead of brazenly brushing her off. -- this is also the reason my dad refuses to even deal with her linux box.
I don't claim to know enough about quantum physics or the universe but this claim sounds like a load of crap. And on top of that, who really cares? Not a troll! really! Someone please explain the importance (or lack thereof) of this discovery.
I never signed it & gave a non-committal answer whenever I was asked about it by someone who wasn't my boss. When he (boss) asked me where my signed copy was I told him I didn't sign it & the older one was sufficient. I was expecting to get fired for that comment but I wasn't and he never asked me about it again. When I did quit down the road (for personal family reasons) there was no ill will, I never betrayed their trust and as far as I can tell they never betrayed mine.
However, when they fire you with no notice, supposedly that is not unprofessional.
Luckily I've never had to deal with this but when I have seen it happen in the past it was indicative of the company's business practices with their customers and other businesses and IMO is usually a good indicator that you should leave.
Lets face it, Americans just don't care. And why should they? They live comfortable lives, entertained with Britney Spears and Paris Hilton. If they follow the rules, they won't get hassled.
Thank goodness that's not the meaning of your post:) This saturation of bland media with metro-sexual men running all over the place is just what right-wing America wants to pull the fleece over our eyes despite their claims to the contrary and complaints about it. The left is just as bad though. They both complain about the media they so dearly love that dulls and confuses the masses into submission. Oh man... it makes me sick... HBO On Demand, TV On Demand, Movies On Demand, Sports On Demand, real information about how you are being fleeced, nowhere to be seen here!
I don't believe that we as humans will see robots move out of the realm of managing and executing repetitious and/or dangerous tasks
Like taking care of the elderly and by accident coming across a virtually outdated haggard hacker who still knows how to pull the plugs?
Ya! Which is along the lines of the problem I have with higher-level programming languages (VB, Java, C#, etc...) being taught @ schools world-wide. I'm only 29 but out of the 100 or so people @ my office who are programmers of some sort or another, myself and 3 other people are the only ones who know C well enough to be handy with all this legacy C code lying around. When people relegate the lower-level tasks to a small group, the masses place an awful lot of blind trust in systems that they know next to nothing about collectively. I'm not sure if I am phrasing this correctly but I'm sure I am getting the gist across....
Going on what you said, I don't believe that we as humans will see robots move out of the realm of managing and executing repetitious and/or dangerous tasks for several generations. This will be for a couple reasons. First, everything you said. Second, the general public will look at robots with general fear and uncertainty much like they do with the idea of cloning.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing- the wisdom of ignorant crowds is often underrated- they KNOW they are not ready for robots or androids yet thus they look at them with fear. Sort of like giving a kid a gun and telling them to do what they please without any training, this is the general public and whether they know this or not, they effectively are "dumb" enough to intervene.
hehe... sorry, I just love that quote. This is apparently how move works in "The Apple Way". The same thing can happen to your bank account when purchasing Apple products... flame on, troll, whatever lol...
Not that I engage in schadenfreude all the time but I feel a little warm feeling inside that makes me smile when those jerks @ the PDX Apple store have their cake and eat it too. Try n' make me feel like they're doing ME a favor by selling me an ipod... sheesh...
I don't think it's quite fair to denigrate all flashy GUI users as incompetents;) I agree and apologize if that's how it was taken, I am merely discussing the people who spend ALL THEIR time dressing up their flashy platform to advertise *NIX while never actually learning or knowing what they (or their comp) is doing. Sounds like you have it done properly - I figure if you're going to be working on a machine all day you may as well have a nice desktop:)
Myself, I have Debian running w/ XP Pro virtualized. That way I have much more flexibility than my coworkers as well & can easily develop for both platforms concurrently. Works great, looks wonderful!
Sounds like the exact same problems cropping up for OSX that popped up for Vista. Who would've thought a large company with a closed-source operating system would have problems on the release date?? Meh...
Are Mac Users smarter than Windows users? No, they only think they are. I'd put them both on par with each other. Though the hippie lady down the street from me w/ a Mac somehow figured out some bash:)
As malware in general (f*ck the nitpickers, it's all malware) proliferates through non-MS OSes I'm sure we will see a median level of gullibility and stupidity rise to the surface across all platforms. Those geeks that have nothing better to do than post flashy Beryl & Compiz videos to youtube and then digg them will be just as vulnerable and idiotic as those kids who have 40 toolbars on their ie and wonder why it runs so slow.
It is this point the saturation of malware across all platforms, not virtualization, which will render OS choice a moot point.
Wow. Either you are so stupid as to not realise how much damage you have just done, or are purposefully trying to making linux developers look like jerks.
The devs who frequent freenode have no problem making themselves look like jerks.
To hell with a bridge... Sell'em interconnect cables at $50 a foot, or speaker cable at $100 a foot (or whatever the going rate is these days). They'll pay you for those.
I was trying to find those wooden knobs for US$495 but I found one several times better (read:funnier) (from the same company too!)
The Potentiometer
!!!
Slashdot Mirror
As far as I'm aware it only relies on the conflict between two assumptions: first, that intelligent life is common in the universe; and second, that intelligent life would be interested in exploration and communication, as we are. Neither of these assumptions is controversial.
Both are controversial.
The first assumption is controversial in that this is what the whole argument is trying to disseminate. The second is controversial in that one is:
a: Assuming that we have a firm grasp of what intelligent life actually is and that it and
b: like a small section of humans, are interested in exploration and communication.
How do we know that we simply haven't heard this assumed intelligent life? If we have, how do we know what we are listening to isn't garbage? How do we know they're even interested or, more importantly, have even bothered to contact our civilization specifically?
The paradox also assumes that if aliens who are interested in communication and exploration are explicitly interested in us which may simply not be the case.
So we have several more assumptions and controversies which haven't even been addressed, more that I haven't even bothered to state here and yet somehow there is this idiotic paradox that keeps getting mentioned. That's the real paradox.
There is not one iota of evidence that there exists one other intelligent form of life in the universe. Go google for Fermi's paradox, I won't even give you the obligatory wikipedia link.
Fermi's paradox relies on too many assumptions to even be considered a valid argument. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you but let's at least use more quantifiable arguments than Fermi's tired assumption...
Yea, if they were a public service, not only would they not care about your privacy, they would be able to use illegal wiretaps to get personal information for usage of these silly ads.
It amazes me when people think the government is there to protect and serve them. Nah, not knocking the govt but it is run by the same people you can't stand, who make poor decisions for even worse reasons, who don't pick up their dog's poop, cut you off, don't open doors for women, etc... and it's the same type of people who through group thinking put them in office. Worse still, the govt has no bottom line so they effectively "Can't Go Out Of Business" meaning that they don't even have to worry about themselves, they can just go on... so at least the company/corp/whatever is looking out for someone- even if it is numero-uno.
Or here:
I know this has been done to death but the first rule about fight club is, You DON'T Talk About Fight Club.
Gosh in people's rush to sound like they know something others didn't, or share info, or whatever your motivation is, sometimes it's really effing stupid.
As to the rest of my post, it's called sarcasm!
Thanks for taking the time to post a reply, instead of just marking it down. At least we can discuss it this way, weather or not we agree is another matter.
Ah we both know this too well... My post, while truthful in disagreeing with you, was just me trying to be as heavily sarcasm-laden as well hence the spiraling into bizarre ubsurdity
mindlessly defending how this is not "evil".
Wow! So I'm to take it that from this one article you now have all the information you need to call anyone that disagrees with you "mindless"!
Seems somewhat "narrow minded" to me. You must be a Republican!
Well that is specious reasoning. I'm not grandparent, a Republican, or anything else for that matter but not only did you misrepresent grandparent's quote but then you attack him by calling him narrow-minded, then you accuse him of being a Republican with the implication that all Republicans are narrow-minded!
It does not bode well for your case when you treat your enemy worse than they treat you. Learn some respect for other people's opinions (even if they are criticizing mindless Google-lovers), for narrow-minded people, for Republicans, and for Evil-Baby-Crushing-Google.
Anyone who has seen an M Night Shamylan movie or been involved in a Usenet discussion about UFO's can readily see that there is one glaringly obvious answer...
IT'S ALIENS GUYS!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!
It's not aliens. It's the new M N Shamylan/Al Gore movie, An Inconvenient Truth II. The rocks are us, we're dead and the desert is NYC in which we think the year is 2100 but really it's 5 billion years ago.
life imitating art yet again...
The Microsoft cup is half empty because it is full of holes.
The Linux cup is half empty because many popular drinks only fit in the Microsoft cup.
Don't forget the Linux cup is only ever half full because most of the people holding Linux cups act like total pricks to those not in the know. You know who you are. Stop giving my mom a hard time when she asks a question. Maybe she was hoping you would like to help instead of brazenly brushing her off. -- this is also the reason my dad refuses to even deal with her linux box.
I don't claim to know enough about quantum physics or the universe but this claim sounds like a load of crap. And on top of that, who really cares? Not a troll! really! Someone please explain the importance (or lack thereof) of this discovery.
I never signed it & gave a non-committal answer whenever I was asked about it by someone who wasn't my boss. When he (boss) asked me where my signed copy was I told him I didn't sign it & the older one was sufficient. I was expecting to get fired for that comment but I wasn't and he never asked me about it again. When I did quit down the road (for personal family reasons) there was no ill will, I never betrayed their trust and as far as I can tell they never betrayed mine.
However, when they fire you with no notice, supposedly that is not unprofessional.
Luckily I've never had to deal with this but when I have seen it happen in the past it was indicative of the company's business practices with their customers and other businesses and IMO is usually a good indicator that you should leave.
Lets face it, Americans just don't care. And why should they? They live comfortable lives, entertained with Britney Spears and Paris Hilton. If they follow the rules, they won't get hassled.
:) This saturation of bland media with metro-sexual men running all over the place is just what right-wing America wants to pull the fleece over our eyes despite their claims to the contrary and complaints about it. The left is just as bad though. They both complain about the media they so dearly love that dulls and confuses the masses into submission. Oh man... it makes me sick... HBO On Demand, TV On Demand, Movies On Demand, Sports On Demand, real information about how you are being fleeced, nowhere to be seen here!
Thank goodness that's not the meaning of your post
someone pls mod parent up as hilarious, Airplane is the greatest movie ever made.
I don't believe that we as humans will see robots move out of the realm of managing and executing repetitious and/or dangerous tasks
Like taking care of the elderly and by accident coming across a virtually outdated haggard hacker who still knows how to pull the plugs?
Ya! Which is along the lines of the problem I have with higher-level programming languages (VB, Java, C#, etc...) being taught @ schools world-wide. I'm only 29 but out of the 100 or so people @ my office who are programmers of some sort or another, myself and 3 other people are the only ones who know C well enough to be handy with all this legacy C code lying around. When people relegate the lower-level tasks to a small group, the masses place an awful lot of blind trust in systems that they know next to nothing about collectively. I'm not sure if I am phrasing this correctly but I'm sure I am getting the gist across....
Going on what you said, I don't believe that we as humans will see robots move out of the realm of managing and executing repetitious and/or dangerous tasks for several generations. This will be for a couple reasons. First, everything you said. Second, the general public will look at robots with general fear and uncertainty much like they do with the idea of cloning.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing- the wisdom of ignorant crowds is often underrated- they KNOW they are not ready for robots or androids yet thus they look at them with fear. Sort of like giving a kid a gun and telling them to do what they please without any training, this is the general public and whether they know this or not, they effectively are "dumb" enough to intervene.
This is not a problem that's exclusive to closed source software.
I just re-read what I wrote and your comment. I make no mention of bugs being exclusive to closed-source software so the point is moot.
hehe... sorry, I just love that quote. This is apparently how move works in "The Apple Way". The same thing can happen to your bank account when purchasing Apple products... flame on, troll, whatever lol...
Not that I engage in schadenfreude all the time but I feel a little warm feeling inside that makes me smile when those jerks @ the PDX Apple store have their cake and eat it too. Try n' make me feel like they're doing ME a favor by selling me an ipod... sheesh...
I don't think it's quite fair to denigrate all flashy GUI users as incompetents ;) :)
I agree and apologize if that's how it was taken, I am merely discussing the people who spend ALL THEIR time dressing up their flashy platform to advertise *NIX while never actually learning or knowing what they (or their comp) is doing. Sounds like you have it done properly - I figure if you're going to be working on a machine all day you may as well have a nice desktop
Myself, I have Debian running w/ XP Pro virtualized. That way I have much more flexibility than my coworkers as well & can easily develop for both platforms concurrently. Works great, looks wonderful!
Am I the only one that cannot stand a single thing this man has ever released? All his shit feels the same and looks the same...like shit.
I agree. His dialog (not to be confused with ideas) is childish and his ideas well... they're pedantic at best.
Sounds like the exact same problems cropping up for OSX that popped up for Vista. Who would've thought a large company with a closed-source operating system would have problems on the release date?? Meh...
Are Mac Users smarter than Windows users? :)
No, they only think they are. I'd put them both on par with each other. Though the hippie lady down the street from me w/ a Mac somehow figured out some bash
As malware in general (f*ck the nitpickers, it's all malware) proliferates through non-MS OSes I'm sure we will see a median level of gullibility and stupidity rise to the surface across all platforms. Those geeks that have nothing better to do than post flashy Beryl & Compiz videos to youtube and then digg them will be just as vulnerable and idiotic as those kids who have 40 toolbars on their ie and wonder why it runs so slow.
It is this point the saturation of malware across all platforms, not virtualization, which will render OS choice a moot point.
Wow. Either you are so stupid as to not realise how much damage you have just done, or are purposefully trying to making linux developers look like jerks.
The devs who frequent freenode have no problem making themselves look like jerks.
To hell with a bridge... Sell'em interconnect cables at $50 a foot, or speaker cable at $100 a foot (or whatever the going rate is these days). They'll pay you for those. I was trying to find those wooden knobs for US$495 but I found one several times better (read:funnier) (from the same company too!) The Potentiometer !!!
How big is the record or your son's mouth?
If you almost lost the last 2 minutes your record is either tiny or your son is a giant.