Redhat dominates the Computer Science department at Virginia Tech where I work, too. Probably in excess of Windows, or at least neck and neck with it.
Like it or not, RedHat is a pretty good development platform, desktop, and server. We use it on our lab computers (fedora), our servers (mostly fedora, some RHEL for our SAN), and the majority of professors use Fedora in preference to any other distro on their workstations.
I can't think of another distro that 1.) runs on a good majority of modern hardware, 2.) provides the development tools, 3.) has the availability of software, 4.) functions as a desktop, and 5.) provides the ease of server administration like RedHat. And I hate redhat. I have to conceed that point, though. So, we've standardized on it (rather than going with something like debian for development, ubuntu for desktops, and BSD for servers).
And I do like Ubuntu; I just don't think it has 25% of the market share for Linux computers. There's too many people who have RH and don't want to fix it if it ain't broke.
Well, the US is huge. Take a loot at http://maps.google.com/ (which for me opens on a map of the US) and mentally draw a triangle from Seattle to Houston, Houston to Minneapolis, and back - and almost no one lives there. Seriously, I did my senior thesis on declining population in the planes states and sustainable agriculture - that triangle comprises 1/4th of the "Continental US" (Non USians - read: The US minus Hawaii and Alaska), yet contains 1/35th the population.
Try building a Cell phone network across all that.
On the other hand, I'd be happy if T-Mobile would ramp up their service in theBosWash area - this area contains 16% of the US population.
I have to chime in for Dragon Quest VIII. It probably isn't the best RPG I've played - I'd say there are some parts of Final Fantasy US3 that can make my eyes water (locke's girlfriend and the phoenix)... but DQ8 is a throwback to Old school RPG's. It has excellent grapics in the "cell shaded" style, and I can not possibly say enough good about the music. The game has a good storyline, it's never taking its self too seriously, and I can't wait to see how it all ends.
The last publicity pictures I saw of this card had a couple of "Models" showing it off. The blonde one looked like they had picked her up off of W124th and Lennox at about 4AM.
That's what happened with The Matrix and DVD players. It was the first DVD I ever owned; I'm sure there's quite a few others like me. It had all the special effects, plus special features.
What happened is simple: Everyone else is now as "easy to use" as Mandrake claimed to be back in the day.
I remember my first linux kick - I had played around with it in 1999 (RedHat 6.x, I believe), but hadn't really made the switch. So, I bought a copy of Mandrake 7.2 at Best Buy, along with a hardware serial port modem, and installed it. I only had one computer at the time, and I completely removed my windows partition. I told myself that the only way I would learn was by doing, and forcing myself to learn.
Well, it helped that Mandrake 7.2 was so radically easy - I mean, it had a graphical installer (woah). It detected some of my hardware (wow, working graphics at 1024x768). It knew what my modem was (well, it understood "serial port that way" and "Hayes standard").
Now, though, excepting the most modern hardware, any linux distro will boot and install and give you that much usability.
What really screwed mandrakeiva was their seeming focus on making people buy the support. They offer it for free, but you kind of have to dig around on their site to find it (unlike, say, fedora, archlinux, centos, ubuntu, debian, gentoo, etc etc). They're really pushing their pay products. And I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to make money. What I am saying is that people often are resentful of companies which try to trick them into paying; making them believe that payment is the only option.
So, in short, they've alienated their customers through trickery, and they're now no easier than any other distro. Their market niche has dried up. Time to move out.... and this from someone who runs a Mandriva Mirror.
I agree with you under most circumstances. But, perhaps in the case of sony, there's an exception.
1.) Dell has enormous flexability in the market. True. But Sony doesn't *need* flexiblilty for the PS3. There's only 1 PS3, and it's not end-user customizable. What they need is to be able to take one design, and ramp up production quickly and cheaply. You don't have to be horizontially integrated to do that - you need virtical integration. Sony is going to be perhaps buying, perhaps developing in house fab blueprints for the components, and then building the hell out of them.
2.) Sony is HUGE. I mean, dell is big, but it's really hard to overestimate Sony's size - they make dell look like a mom-and-pop. Aside from home amplification, home speakers, car head units, car speakers, dvd players, CD players, Sattelite receivers, CRT Televisions, Plasma TV's, LCD TV's, Computers, Notebooks, LCD monitors, Projectors, Optical drives, flash devices like memory stick, etc; they also own Sony/BMG music, Sony picture studios, SONYTV-ASIA (indian TV network), and probably a LOT of others I don't even know about. That's completely outside of the Gaming biz; of which they own the playstations, a myriad of in-house games like the ever popular Jak and Dexter, and loyalties from all the other games developed.
I find it hard to believe that sony would choose not to manufacture everything they possibly could for the PS3. They already have the virtical integration; their worldwide business is big enough to transition the existing operations into new fabs; and they have the capital to make a long-term smart move, like setting up a fab plant for RD Ram. Fab plants are INCREDIBLY expensive - the cost of the first chip is probably $100,000,000. But, with each successive chip, the cost goes ever downward.
Those prices are so out of whack. For starters, blue ray will NOT cost $300/drive. That's insane. Sony owns the license agreements for it, and will be fabbing it themselves. No royalties and no middle man = the blue ray drive will cost next to nothing. Same with the cell processor: It may cost $230 to buy one of them, or even a thousand. What about when you buy 500,000? Or 2,000,000? Or, you agree to fabricate them yourselves, and then you're only paying for the blueprints. The same goes for ram - how much ram is this thing supposed to have? Cause $40 buys you 512MB of ram off the interwebs now. Sony will make their own ram.
Everyone needs to chill out. Please remember that Microsoft and Sony are very different - Microsoft is a software company, and always has been. Sony has ALWAYS been a hardware provider; they own their own fabrication plants, they hire their own engineers - and most of the costs of outsourcing and subcontracting are moot points.
Not to mention, the very article the parent post links to conceeds that the $905 manufacturing cost will probably be down around $300 after 3 years. If that article was Feb of this year, and the console isn't launching until 2007, that's already 1/3 of their time-to-price-reduction elapsed.
Buying one does not equal buying millions. Price now does not equal price in a year, or even next month. End user does not equal patent owner, developer, and fabricator.
I'm running a Knoppix-STD mirror at the Virginia Tech CS Dept Mirror. I've emailed them back and forth, but they haven't added me to their site. Try not to pound the K-STD site; they don't have a lot of bandwidth. And if you want to download it, I'm probably as reliable, if not more so, than the other mirrors listed.
It's more like 5% of the users create 95% of the work for us here.
But, at least we're well funded (no sarcasm - they recently realized how much we were doing with ghetto 15 drive 150GB arrays and ancient tape systems and dec/compaq branded alphas, and bought us a cluster, 2 6TB arrays, and an autoloading tape library).
It's not hard to get people to remember a password that's still fairly complex.
What you do is you use an acronym. You look around for one of their stupid desk plackards that says some stupid phrase like "You want it done WHEN?!?" or whatever, and you make a password out of that, like 'YwidW?'. I know that's only 6 characters, and there's no numerics, but it's a start - it's relatively secure (compared to, for instance, 'kitty' or 'cowboys', both of which I've seen).
Seriously. Give it a try. Have them find some thing or use some sentance they look at or say often. There's this box of Vodka choclates on my desk at the moment, the description says "Vodka Choclates - Dark choclates filled with Vodka and fruit", and the net weight is (was) 260g. Bam. Password. Vc-dcfwVaf260 That's a secure password. Easy to remember? Nope. Not unless you know where you're looking. Can the end users do it? Most of 'em can.
There are a lot of other areas of mindshare that your efforts will be better spent on. I'm going to say this, slowly, because it's the most unpopular thought expressed on Slashdot:
I.E. won the browser war.
Everyone get off your collective high horses, and move on from here.
89%+ of the people on the internet use Internet Explorer. 97%+ of people on the internet use IE or some form of Mozilla.
It's fantastic that this guy has some random website with some random page with everything that's in the book all on the same page. It's great that Kmeleon and Opera render it correctly. But, and this next part is key, if it doesn't render properly in IE, it's broken.
The people who write the HTML standard can make whatever rules they want. It doesn't matter. The browser that controls the namespace controls the standard. And when any professional web designer creates a webpage, the FIRST priority is that it renders flawlessly in IE. After that, they work on making it render (or at least degrade gracefully) in Firefox/Mozilla/Netscape. Only after that is any time or money wasted on compatability for Opera, Safari, etc. Dell is a fantastic example of this: their online configurator, when using IE, updates the price realtime with new selections; in firefox, you have to click "update price". Both acceptable options. Know what's not acceptable to dell? Their configurator not rendering in IE.
In fact, it's not really a standard if 97% of people don't follow it, now is it? Let's consult dictionary.com:
stan dardn. Something, such as a practice or a product, that is widely recognized or employed, especially because of its excellence.
Hrm. I'll grant you the "excellence" bit, but that definition sounds like it says "Something, such as a practice or a product, that is widely recognized or employed". In fact, that's exactly what it says.
89% market penetration by Internet Explorer makes it, by definition, the standard. Crackpots can write as many "Acid2" tests as they want. If it doesn't render in IE, the fact may be that IE doesn't follow the documents you follow, but you're in the wrong. Ask anyone in marketing: NO ONE is so right that they can deserve to alienate 89% of their constituants or customers.
When a corporation releases a new version, they expect to be able to pay for it. When Windows XP was released, it included support for damn near everything. The fact is simply that there's been too much hardware come out since XP was released - you can't expect them to have built drivers into the OS 5 years ago for hardware they didn't know would exist. Likewise, you can't expect them to release new versions, because that will cause confusion with people who already own XP ("Oh, I've got WinXP 4.2" - "Oh, that's why my sound doesn't work, I've only got XP 3.7").
Think for a second: Just using redhat as an example, since WindowsXP was released, we've seen the release of RH7.3, RH8.0, RH9, Fedora Core 1, FC2, FC3, and FC4, and we'll see FC5 before Vista comes out. Try installing RH7.3 on modern hardware, see what it recognizes...
If you install Windows 2003 server, it has more drivers - it detects almost everything these days (except frustratingly enough sometimes it doesn't detect eepro1000 intel cards). This is something that windows is continuing to do - from previews I've seen of Vista, it supports almost every current piece of hardware.
Why aren't microsoft putting out updates? They are. Whenever you build a new system, keep a realtek 8139 network card with you; or a D-Link COSMO USB-network adapter and a floppy or thumbdrive with the driver. When you get windows installed, head over to windows update, and rather than hitting "express", hit "custom" and look for hardware updates. It catches quite a lot of hardware - modems, ethernet cards, sound cards, all kinds of stuff.
FOR THE ELEVENTY BILLIONTH TIME, THE PS3 WILL NOT, NOT, NOT, NEVER COST $700 OR $900 OR $1000 MSRP.
That article about the ps3 costing $935 (or whatever) to build is flawed in so many ways. Sony owns the specs to Blu-Ray, and won't have to pay royalties. The price checks were done a year and a half before the anticipated US launch date. The price was for ONE machine, not HALF A MILLION machines; ever heard of economics of scale? Sony OWNS THEIR OWN FAB PLANTS, and will manufacture their own motherboards and ram, at a minimum, and they may manufacture the Cell processor (and simply pay royalties and consulting fees to IBM in exchange for BPOs). These parts are all "next generation", and will come down in price rapidly. Sony can sell it for whatever they want, even if MSRP is less than build cost, as it will be made up in long-run manufacturing costs and licenses for software titles.
Ugh.
Shut Up. The PS3 will at absolute most cost $499. And it will probably be more like $449 or $399. Write it down.
Sony is NOT stupid. For one, they can take a HUGE hit on each console sold if they need to in order to get it into people's hands. For two, they probably won't have to sell it below price if they do their own fabbing - certainly not for very long. I can't believe when everyone's saying "No one will buy it if it's $700", and then thinking sony doesn't know that. Jesus.
Slashdot Mirror
Ditto for USians.
Mirror.cc.vt.edu
622 Mbits.
Also: CentOS just released 4.3 two days or so ago.
Redhat dominates the Computer Science department at Virginia Tech where I work, too. Probably in excess of Windows, or at least neck and neck with it.
Like it or not, RedHat is a pretty good development platform, desktop, and server. We use it on our lab computers (fedora), our servers (mostly fedora, some RHEL for our SAN), and the majority of professors use Fedora in preference to any other distro on their workstations.
I can't think of another distro that 1.) runs on a good majority of modern hardware, 2.) provides the development tools, 3.) has the availability of software, 4.) functions as a desktop, and 5.) provides the ease of server administration like RedHat. And I hate redhat. I have to conceed that point, though. So, we've standardized on it (rather than going with something like debian for development, ubuntu for desktops, and BSD for servers).
And I do like Ubuntu; I just don't think it has 25% of the market share for Linux computers. There's too many people who have RH and don't want to fix it if it ain't broke.
~Will
Well, it's more like... take the line and bend it around Denver and Dallas, and down towards Houston.
Then, you can draw the line up to Minneapolis around Kansas City, and then from Minne/st paul, just extend it up to the border, and over to seattle.
It's not exact. But, it's close.
PLAINS states. Ugh. Coffee. Monday. My bad.
Well, the US is huge. Take a loot at http://maps.google.com/ (which for me opens on a map of the US) and mentally draw a triangle from Seattle to Houston, Houston to Minneapolis, and back - and almost no one lives there. Seriously, I did my senior thesis on declining population in the planes states and sustainable agriculture - that triangle comprises 1/4th of the "Continental US" (Non USians - read: The US minus Hawaii and Alaska), yet contains 1/35th the population.
Try building a Cell phone network across all that.
On the other hand, I'd be happy if T-Mobile would ramp up their service in theBosWash area - this area contains 16% of the US population.
~Will
What happened? Space cow?
Dude
O'dell lake for the Apple IIgs and a variety of early Macs and PC's.
I bet his wake didn't pass the ACID2 test...
I have to chime in for Dragon Quest VIII. It probably isn't the best RPG I've played - I'd say there are some parts of Final Fantasy US3 that can make my eyes water (locke's girlfriend and the phoenix)... but DQ8 is a throwback to Old school RPG's. It has excellent grapics in the "cell shaded" style, and I can not possibly say enough good about the music. The game has a good storyline, it's never taking its self too seriously, and I can't wait to see how it all ends.
~Will
Kingdom of Loathing and what else?
The last publicity pictures I saw of this card had a couple of "Models" showing it off. The blonde one looked like they had picked her up off of W124th and Lennox at about 4AM.
Shudder.
That's what happened with The Matrix and DVD players. It was the first DVD I ever owned; I'm sure there's quite a few others like me. It had all the special effects, plus special features.
~W
Dude, I have a problem. I'm so addicted to bash.org. I use quotes from bash in daily conversation, and no one but me gets it, so I chuckle to myself.
* W is away - gone, if anyone talks in the next 25 minutes as me it's smcleln being an asshole -
<W> HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS
What happened is simple: Everyone else is now as "easy to use" as Mandrake claimed to be back in the day.
I remember my first linux kick - I had played around with it in 1999 (RedHat 6.x, I believe), but hadn't really made the switch. So, I bought a copy of Mandrake 7.2 at Best Buy, along with a hardware serial port modem, and installed it. I only had one computer at the time, and I completely removed my windows partition. I told myself that the only way I would learn was by doing, and forcing myself to learn.
Well, it helped that Mandrake 7.2 was so radically easy - I mean, it had a graphical installer (woah). It detected some of my hardware (wow, working graphics at 1024x768). It knew what my modem was (well, it understood "serial port that way" and "Hayes standard").
Now, though, excepting the most modern hardware, any linux distro will boot and install and give you that much usability.
What really screwed mandrakeiva was their seeming focus on making people buy the support. They offer it for free, but you kind of have to dig around on their site to find it (unlike, say, fedora, archlinux, centos, ubuntu, debian, gentoo, etc etc). They're really pushing their pay products. And I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to make money. What I am saying is that people often are resentful of companies which try to trick them into paying; making them believe that payment is the only option.
So, in short, they've alienated their customers through trickery, and they're now no easier than any other distro. Their market niche has dried up. Time to move out.
~Will
Sony has been making their own ram (under various wholly-owned-subs) for years.
I agree with you under most circumstances. But, perhaps in the case of sony, there's an exception.
1.) Dell has enormous flexability in the market. True. But Sony doesn't *need* flexiblilty for the PS3. There's only 1 PS3, and it's not end-user customizable. What they need is to be able to take one design, and ramp up production quickly and cheaply. You don't have to be horizontially integrated to do that - you need virtical integration. Sony is going to be perhaps buying, perhaps developing in house fab blueprints for the components, and then building the hell out of them.
2.) Sony is HUGE. I mean, dell is big, but it's really hard to overestimate Sony's size - they make dell look like a mom-and-pop. Aside from home amplification, home speakers, car head units, car speakers, dvd players, CD players, Sattelite receivers, CRT Televisions, Plasma TV's, LCD TV's, Computers, Notebooks, LCD monitors, Projectors, Optical drives, flash devices like memory stick, etc; they also own Sony/BMG music, Sony picture studios, SONYTV-ASIA (indian TV network), and probably a LOT of others I don't even know about. That's completely outside of the Gaming biz; of which they own the playstations, a myriad of in-house games like the ever popular Jak and Dexter, and loyalties from all the other games developed.
I find it hard to believe that sony would choose not to manufacture everything they possibly could for the PS3. They already have the virtical integration; their worldwide business is big enough to transition the existing operations into new fabs; and they have the capital to make a long-term smart move, like setting up a fab plant for RD Ram. Fab plants are INCREDIBLY expensive - the cost of the first chip is probably $100,000,000. But, with each successive chip, the cost goes ever downward.
~Will
No, they are Licensing it from RAMBUS. RAMBUS has never, and will never, physically CREATE ram and sell it. RAMBUS is a research group.
They pay rambus for the plans, and agree to rambus getting $X (probably $0.05 or something) per console sold. That's how it works.
I wish this crap would die.
Those prices are so out of whack. For starters, blue ray will NOT cost $300/drive. That's insane. Sony owns the license agreements for it, and will be fabbing it themselves. No royalties and no middle man = the blue ray drive will cost next to nothing. Same with the cell processor: It may cost $230 to buy one of them, or even a thousand. What about when you buy 500,000? Or 2,000,000? Or, you agree to fabricate them yourselves, and then you're only paying for the blueprints. The same goes for ram - how much ram is this thing supposed to have? Cause $40 buys you 512MB of ram off the interwebs now. Sony will make their own ram.
Everyone needs to chill out. Please remember that Microsoft and Sony are very different - Microsoft is a software company, and always has been. Sony has ALWAYS been a hardware provider; they own their own fabrication plants, they hire their own engineers - and most of the costs of outsourcing and subcontracting are moot points.
Not to mention, the very article the parent post links to conceeds that the $905 manufacturing cost will probably be down around $300 after 3 years. If that article was Feb of this year, and the console isn't launching until 2007, that's already 1/3 of their time-to-price-reduction elapsed.
Buying one does not equal buying millions.
Price now does not equal price in a year, or even next month.
End user does not equal patent owner, developer, and fabricator.
Sony is not in any trouble.
~Will
I'm running a Knoppix-STD mirror at the Virginia Tech CS Dept Mirror. I've emailed them back and forth, but they haven't added me to their site. Try not to pound the K-STD site; they don't have a lot of bandwidth. And if you want to download it, I'm probably as reliable, if not more so, than the other mirrors listed.
~Will
20% of the users create 80% of the work for IT.
Try working in a CS department at a University.
It's more like 5% of the users create 95% of the work for us here.
But, at least we're well funded (no sarcasm - they recently realized how much we were doing with ghetto 15 drive 150GB arrays and ancient tape systems and dec/compaq branded alphas, and bought us a cluster, 2 6TB arrays, and an autoloading tape library).
~Will
It's not hard to get people to remember a password that's still fairly complex.
What you do is you use an acronym. You look around for one of their stupid desk plackards that says some stupid phrase like "You want it done WHEN?!?" or whatever, and you make a password out of that, like 'YwidW?'. I know that's only 6 characters, and there's no numerics, but it's a start - it's relatively secure (compared to, for instance, 'kitty' or 'cowboys', both of which I've seen).
Seriously. Give it a try. Have them find some thing or use some sentance they look at or say often. There's this box of Vodka choclates on my desk at the moment, the description says "Vodka Choclates - Dark choclates filled with Vodka and fruit", and the net weight is (was) 260g. Bam. Password. Vc-dcfwVaf260 That's a secure password. Easy to remember? Nope. Not unless you know where you're looking. Can the end users do it? Most of 'em can.
~Will
There are a lot of other areas of mindshare that your efforts will be better spent on. I'm going to say this, slowly, because it's the most unpopular thought expressed on Slashdot:
I.E. won the browser war.
Everyone get off your collective high horses, and move on from here.
89%+ of the people on the internet use Internet Explorer. 97%+ of people on the internet use IE or some form of Mozilla.
It's fantastic that this guy has some random website with some random page with everything that's in the book all on the same page. It's great that Kmeleon and Opera render it correctly. But, and this next part is key, if it doesn't render properly in IE, it's broken.
The people who write the HTML standard can make whatever rules they want. It doesn't matter. The browser that controls the namespace controls the standard. And when any professional web designer creates a webpage, the FIRST priority is that it renders flawlessly in IE. After that, they work on making it render (or at least degrade gracefully) in Firefox/Mozilla/Netscape. Only after that is any time or money wasted on compatability for Opera, Safari, etc. Dell is a fantastic example of this: their online configurator, when using IE, updates the price realtime with new selections; in firefox, you have to click "update price". Both acceptable options. Know what's not acceptable to dell? Their configurator not rendering in IE.
In fact, it's not really a standard if 97% of people don't follow it, now is it? Let's consult dictionary.com:
Hrm. I'll grant you the "excellence" bit, but that definition sounds like it says "Something, such as a practice or a product, that is widely recognized or employed". In fact, that's exactly what it says.
89% market penetration by Internet Explorer makes it, by definition, the standard. Crackpots can write as many "Acid2" tests as they want. If it doesn't render in IE, the fact may be that IE doesn't follow the documents you follow, but you're in the wrong. Ask anyone in marketing: NO ONE is so right that they can deserve to alienate 89% of their constituants or customers.
~Will
Corporate release schedule versus free.
When a corporation releases a new version, they expect to be able to pay for it. When Windows XP was released, it included support for damn near everything. The fact is simply that there's been too much hardware come out since XP was released - you can't expect them to have built drivers into the OS 5 years ago for hardware they didn't know would exist. Likewise, you can't expect them to release new versions, because that will cause confusion with people who already own XP ("Oh, I've got WinXP 4.2" - "Oh, that's why my sound doesn't work, I've only got XP 3.7").
Think for a second: Just using redhat as an example, since WindowsXP was released, we've seen the release of RH7.3, RH8.0, RH9, Fedora Core 1, FC2, FC3, and FC4, and we'll see FC5 before Vista comes out. Try installing RH7.3 on modern hardware, see what it recognizes...
If you install Windows 2003 server, it has more drivers - it detects almost everything these days (except frustratingly enough sometimes it doesn't detect eepro1000 intel cards). This is something that windows is continuing to do - from previews I've seen of Vista, it supports almost every current piece of hardware.
Why aren't microsoft putting out updates? They are. Whenever you build a new system, keep a realtek 8139 network card with you; or a D-Link COSMO USB-network adapter and a floppy or thumbdrive with the driver. When you get windows installed, head over to windows update, and rather than hitting "express", hit "custom" and look for hardware updates. It catches quite a lot of hardware - modems, ethernet cards, sound cards, all kinds of stuff.
This is really a non issue.
~Will
FOR THE ELEVENTY BILLIONTH TIME, THE PS3 WILL NOT, NOT, NOT, NEVER COST $700 OR $900 OR $1000 MSRP.
That article about the ps3 costing $935 (or whatever) to build is flawed in so many ways. Sony owns the specs to Blu-Ray, and won't have to pay royalties. The price checks were done a year and a half before the anticipated US launch date. The price was for ONE machine, not HALF A MILLION machines; ever heard of economics of scale? Sony OWNS THEIR OWN FAB PLANTS, and will manufacture their own motherboards and ram, at a minimum, and they may manufacture the Cell processor (and simply pay royalties and consulting fees to IBM in exchange for BPOs). These parts are all "next generation", and will come down in price rapidly. Sony can sell it for whatever they want, even if MSRP is less than build cost, as it will be made up in long-run manufacturing costs and licenses for software titles.
Ugh.
Shut Up. The PS3 will at absolute most cost $499. And it will probably be more like $449 or $399. Write it down.
Sony is NOT stupid. For one, they can take a HUGE hit on each console sold if they need to in order to get it into people's hands. For two, they probably won't have to sell it below price if they do their own fabbing - certainly not for very long. I can't believe when everyone's saying "No one will buy it if it's $700", and then thinking sony doesn't know that. Jesus.
Mod parent down.
~Will