Even child molesters have the right to not be beaten to a pulp. For one thing, the *alleged* child molester might be falsely-accused and completely innocent. Such judgments should be made in a neutral environment by due process of law (court system), not by people on the street. Therefore I would act to stop a so-called molester from being beaten - you can take him into custody without turning him into a corpse.
Discussing this issue reminds me of the guy who was beaten in Chicago(?) and then just left to lay there and suffer, while thousands of people walked past him & ignored his plight. You don't just "let the government help him". You use your individual liberty to take the initiative, call an ambulance, and help stop the bleeding.
The "federal authorities" cannot be everywhere at once. If you see a man getting beat by another man, do you just stand by and wait for the police to show-up 30 minutes later to collect the body? Of course not. You and your fellow citizens act to stop the abuse.
What happened here is no different. This reporter noticed an illegality, collected evidence, and then took action (called the ISP) to see if he could stop it. Later on, he will provide the evidence to the government.
False. ISPs are Not common carriers. They have never applied for that distinction within the courts, and so they remain private-owned businesses. Therefore they are liable for actions committed.
I don't see how providing evidence to the government is "vigilante justice". On the contrary it is government justice which is what government is there to provide.
Maybe they could move to Alaska. Lots of water there. Most of it is currently frozen but if the global warming experts are correct, Alaska will soon be a pleasant place to live. Like Seattle or Vancouver.
Of if they prefer the east coast, Newfoundland/Labrador should be a nice area in 2100. Like Maine but with lots of open land.
Also:
If the Maldives president was serious, he would start encouraging his people to leave NOW - one family at a time. That way the task of moving 0.3 million people will be manageable rather than near-impossible.
Only Christians (specifically fundamentalists) are that dumb. Muslims and Jews take matters into their own hands and fix their own problems.
>>>Global Warming is just a myth!
No it's real (probably), but it's not man-made. The previous two warming events (3000 BC) and (300-1200 AD) were not caused by man, and it's unlikely this one is either. It's just a natural cycle... same as the glaciers retreating north 10,000 years ago, or the dinosaurs living without ANY ice (not even the poles) 200 million years ago. Warming happens.
I liked that story about the Commodore 64, and the kid learning to write his first BASIC programs. Now he has a skill that is actually employable (whether you write BASIC, Fortran, C, or VHDL, it's all basically the same). He just needs to keep practicing.
I learned programming on my own without my parents help. I was self-motivated; I don't know why? I guess I just wanted to see what images I could make the Commodore flash up on the screen. Eventually I lost interest in programming, and became more curious how the hardware actually work (how does a SID make sound?), and started devouring all the tech manuals I could find.
The key I think is to instill that same self-motivation/self-learning process to the next generation; how to do that is a mystery. I suspect it requires an innate curiosity instilled from birth.
I did. I tried every option I could to NOT reformat my drive, but after a day I realized I had no choice. I suspect the RAID information was lost during the power failure, and with the data being "divided" across two drives my PC couldn't make any sense of it. (shrug). I have since re-downloaded almost everything I lost, so it wasn't too bad of a tragedy. Now I make sure to back-up stuff on the external USB drive, just in case.
Here's another experiment: Take-away the computer and give them a wall of books instead.
Pretty soon you'll have a book junkie who can't stop reading. The flaw is in the person (obsessive compulsive and/or lonely and/or bored), not in the tool being used.
We were attacked three different times in the 90s:
- World Trade Center's bottom floors - Oklahoma Federal Building bombing - USS Cole
And also the whole Waco/Ruby Ridge debacle. I'm not surprised that the security branches of the government were just waiting for the right opportunity to introduce their act.
Of course we're just a government contractor who provides the Navy with missiles, and therefore Not the actual government. Perhaps the E.U. could use a similar hand-waving to justify non-disclosure? "It wasn't use bought the software; it was XYZ Computer Leasing and they don't have to divulge their contract with Microsoft."
The EU Council doesn't sound any worse than how the U.S. Senate operates. Although each Senator is elected, in practice they represent the interests of the State Legislature.
That's correct. They don't count. Governments are there to serve the People, not the corporations. Furthermore government is there to serve ALL the people (common welfare), not to protect the privileges of a few.
Furthermore governments should promote a competitive market, and releasing the price list would certainly do that. Governments should not act to protect monopolies or near-monopolies from competitors.
So much the European theory that a Socialist government will work for the people, not the corporations. That does not appear to be the case.
The fact is any government will work for whoever has the most money, regardless of its makeup. (Which is why government power needs to be strictly limited so as to minimize the damage.)
I agree. I never touched a soldering iron until I was already in college (in my 20s), and it hasn't "stunted" my career. I don't see why a 6-year-old needs to be soldering. Give him a breadboard.
Slashdot Mirror
Common carrier laws apply to ISP
Are you incapable of reading the message *directly* above your own? QUOTE: "Except that ISP's are NOT common carriers in the USA. http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/27/1510219 [slashdot.org]"
Even child molesters have the right to not be beaten to a pulp. For one thing, the *alleged* child molester might be falsely-accused and completely innocent. Such judgments should be made in a neutral environment by due process of law (court system), not by people on the street. Therefore I would act to stop a so-called molester from being beaten - you can take him into custody without turning him into a corpse.
Discussing this issue reminds me of the guy who was beaten in Chicago(?) and then just left to lay there and suffer, while thousands of people walked past him & ignored his plight. You don't just "let the government help him". You use your individual liberty to take the initiative, call an ambulance, and help stop the bleeding.
...or so Smelly Jeffrey claims. I have not read ANY law that treats ISPs as common carriers.
And Voyager is still lost in the delta quadrant. Janeway was not available for comments.
Technically the USS Voyager has not left yet, and won't be leaving until the year 2372.
"internet service providers are protected by common [lectlaw.com] carrier [wikipedia.org] laws"
That's pretty damn close. If they are protected by "common carrier laws" then they are "common carriers" in effect, if not actual name.
Hmmmm..... I have Hunger for Quarter Pounder with pomme frites!
The "federal authorities" cannot be everywhere at once. If you see a man getting beat by another man, do you just stand by and wait for the police to show-up 30 minutes later to collect the body? Of course not. You and your fellow citizens act to stop the abuse.
What happened here is no different. This reporter noticed an illegality, collected evidence, and then took action (called the ISP) to see if he could stop it. Later on, he will provide the evidence to the government.
False. ISPs are Not common carriers. They have never applied for that distinction within the courts, and so they remain private-owned businesses. Therefore they are liable for actions committed.
I don't see how providing evidence to the government is "vigilante justice". On the contrary it is government justice which is what government is there to provide.
Maybe they could move to Alaska. Lots of water there. Most of it is currently frozen but if the global warming experts are correct, Alaska will soon be a pleasant place to live. Like Seattle or Vancouver.
Of if they prefer the east coast, Newfoundland/Labrador should be a nice area in 2100. Like Maine but with lots of open land.
Also:
If the Maldives president was serious, he would start encouraging his people to leave NOW - one family at a time. That way the task of moving 0.3 million people will be manageable rather than near-impossible.
Only Christians (specifically fundamentalists) are that dumb. Muslims and Jews take matters into their own hands and fix their own problems.
>>>Global Warming is just a myth!
No it's real (probably), but it's not man-made. The previous two warming events (3000 BC) and (300-1200 AD) were not caused by man, and it's unlikely this one is either. It's just a natural cycle... same as the glaciers retreating north 10,000 years ago, or the dinosaurs living without ANY ice (not even the poles) 200 million years ago. Warming happens.
I liked that story about the Commodore 64, and the kid learning to write his first BASIC programs. Now he has a skill that is actually employable (whether you write BASIC, Fortran, C, or VHDL, it's all basically the same). He just needs to keep practicing.
I learned programming on my own without my parents help. I was self-motivated; I don't know why? I guess I just wanted to see what images I could make the Commodore flash up on the screen. Eventually I lost interest in programming, and became more curious how the hardware actually work (how does a SID make sound?), and started devouring all the tech manuals I could find.
The key I think is to instill that same self-motivation/self-learning process to the next generation; how to do that is a mystery. I suspect it requires an innate curiosity instilled from birth.
TRIVIA:
Voyagers 1 and 2 are still alive and in daily communication with NASA: http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/news/profiles_dsn .html - Amazing! Who says old 70s tech is not useful? ;-)
I did. I tried every option I could to NOT reformat my drive, but after a day I realized I had no choice. I suspect the RAID information was lost during the power failure, and with the data being "divided" across two drives my PC couldn't make any sense of it. (shrug). I have since re-downloaded almost everything I lost, so it wasn't too bad of a tragedy. Now I make sure to back-up stuff on the external USB drive, just in case.
TRIVIA:
Voyagers 1 and 2 are still alive and in daily communication with NASA: http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/news/profiles_dsn .html - Amazing!
Here's another experiment: Take-away the computer and give them a wall of books instead.
Pretty soon you'll have a book junkie who can't stop reading. The flaw is in the person (obsessive compulsive and/or lonely and/or bored), not in the tool being used.
Yes but what is the Question?
Trivia:
Voyagers 1 and 2 are still alive and in daily communication with NASA: http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/news/profiles_dsn.html
We were attacked three different times in the 90s:
- World Trade Center's bottom floors
- Oklahoma Federal Building bombing
- USS Cole
And also the whole Waco/Ruby Ridge debacle. I'm not surprised that the security branches of the government were just waiting for the right opportunity to introduce their act.
In the U.S. the administration cannot refuse that request, because the House would then stop providing the money.
We have NDAs at Lockheed Martin.
Of course we're just a government contractor who provides the Navy with missiles, and therefore Not the actual government. Perhaps the E.U. could use a similar hand-waving to justify non-disclosure? "It wasn't use bought the software; it was XYZ Computer Leasing and they don't have to divulge their contract with Microsoft."
The EU Council doesn't sound any worse than how the U.S. Senate operates. Although each Senator is elected, in practice they represent the interests of the State Legislature.
The Swiss have guns? The politicians are afraid?
The EU Council sounds more like the U.S. Senate (each minister represents their respective state).
The EU Parliament sounds like the U.S. House (direct representation of the people).
Terrism? Fear of the earth? That's a new one that I've never heard.
That's correct. They don't count. Governments are there to serve the People, not the corporations. Furthermore government is there to serve ALL the people (common welfare), not to protect the privileges of a few.
Furthermore governments should promote a competitive market, and releasing the price list would certainly do that. Governments should not act to protect monopolies or near-monopolies from competitors.
So much the European theory that a Socialist government will work for the people, not the corporations. That does not appear to be the case.
The fact is any government will work for whoever has the most money, regardless of its makeup. (Which is why government power needs to be strictly limited so as to minimize the damage.)
I agree. I never touched a soldering iron until I was already in college (in my 20s), and it hasn't "stunted" my career. I don't see why a 6-year-old needs to be soldering. Give him a breadboard.