I assume you two complained when slahsdhot reported beta versions of E were released, and that E has it's own slashdot icon. How the hell is Quake major software? It is just a game (joking aside).
This is making things easier. It is a 1.0 quality window manager that works well with GNOME. If it wasn't for this window manager, I would be using KDE now, no doubt about it. This WM has been around for a while. It isn't bleeding edge stuff.Why would you even say that? It is just a quality WM, that is at 1.0.
The difference between IceWM and most of the other shit of freshmeat is that it is actually finished, 1.0 software. It is not like this WM is at 0.1 of 50 other 0.1 window managers. Besides, there have been many good window managers, and desktop envirements to go with them. Why do you care if 20 guys make there own crappy versions? It is unlikely they would have helped out the other good window managers. You are lucky 2 guys already responded, I would have moderated that post down if it had not been replied too.
Funny thing is that the original closed source quake would let you easily do that. You just had to change the skins on your models to use fullbrights. I guess the client should have gotten md5sums from all the files before it started to make sure this didn't happen.
I havent played an FPS in a while (month or two), but after trying out q3demotest with my TNT under linux, the performance was fine. My definition of fine is 5+ fps, but q3demotest scores 3 times that:)
Try it. Download demotest overnight, and see how it is.
3D cards with those chipsets should all work. Since those are the only consumer level cards that work well with q3 under linux, there is not really a reason to make a website to those 3 card types. It may look bad on the surface, but of course most 3D cards use one of those chipsets.
I had this mpeg that mpegtv would display fine, but the sound was all choppy. SMPEG played it fine. Plus, SMPEG wont have that anoyying shareware dialog box when you start up the gui version (I think, I never got the smpeg gui to compile, but I guess that is just my system).
See, it really didn't even matter that a linux binary wasn't included in the box, or that they didn't specicify i386 linux. They forgot to mention that this ONLY supports 3dfx cards. That is a HUGE deal to most of us, more than that petty shit I just mentioned. I assumed that OpenGL/Mesa was supported by this time for the linux port, and that the delay was just temporary. I was going to waste my time downloading the whole binary just to read the README file just to be sure.
They should mention that even with my 486, an i386, it won't run worth a damn. Wtf. Come on people, please tell me about this before I download this stuff.
I'm sorrym, I wouldn't have said anything, but fileplanet did mention that these were linux i386 binaries before you download them. Though I would like it if they would just post the damn readme, so I could see if the linux version needs glide, or if it will run with just opengl.
Shit, somebody remembered FX Fighter. I have that game somewhere in my closet or something.
Anyway, you forgot Virtua Fighter 1 + 2 for Windows95. They are/were the definitive 3d fighting games. I whish they had more for the PC. Tekken 3 would sure as hell be nice. VF3 would probably run in some form on a PC. And while someones at it, make a linux port.
If you really want Xscreensaver to work right. .
on
New ATi 3D Chip
·
· Score: 1
Get the TNT/TNT2 drivers from the glx CVS server, or snapshots. I guess you could find the website by looking for "glx", "mesa", and "tnt" on google.
Xscreensaver will work double buffered (which means it won't flicker, if anybody else has that problem), but, expect that you will have bugs in other GL apps. Also, will be a lot less stable. An unstable X can and will crash the entire system. To top off that, no matter how hard you try to optimize it with -mpentiumpro cflags and such, the CVS driver will be slower than the binary released by nvidia.
They have drivers for most of the big chip makers, NVidia, G400, and 3dfx. Some are slow, but they are there. And notice I said most, as there is no complete driver for ATI, or whatever oddball chip you may have on your card. But saying there are almost no hardware drivers is bullshit.
Linux has few things over Be on the desktop. Its free (most importantly), and it supports more hardware and software. This is a good enough reason to not give up on making linux desktop software. I hope that was not what you were aking people to do.
Even if it is OpenGL, it doesn't have to use T&L. I don't think quake uses GL lighting, and if they do it is for spark effects, not the main level lighting. And you can always do transformations before they get to the card, which is what crystal space does. I suspect a lot of cross-API games (that use directx, glide, and opengl) use OpenGL just for a rasterizer.
It is just that opengl is designed for T&L, which is why at least the T part is used alot.
I know you might think, its a hardware driver, if it works, why would you need open source drivers.
But hardware drivers for 3d cards are almost never perfectly, and it is common for a company to release several drivers before they are usable for most games. Especially opengl drivers, which seem to only be made for the sake of Quake*.
Think how half-ass the drivers will be for linux. And do you really think that they will fix bugs in a timely manner, for an alternative OS. Hell no.
For an alternative OS, you need programming specs, and maybe some open source drivers to accompany it. Even without programming specs, you can get a few bugs fixed (like the NVidia OGL driver from the glx cvs server does not have that XScreenSaver bug, but it is slower than the released version). However, without specs, something that is just open source like the NVidia tnt drivers, can't really be updated. That is why the TNT is slower than the G200 on linux. That is why open source drivers don't matter, but specs do.
Linux has printer drivers, and a lot of them. Since you are talking about real people, I will use cheapo color printers as an example, which it seems everybody is getting. Lots of them support linux. At least the older ones. Though I guess in a few months, the situation might have changed, and all of the new ones could use gdi (which means they probably never work under linux). Worst case scenario you could just get an older printer. Its not like printers for home use have got that much better over the years. Some people who use linux need this special hardware, as they had no alternative already on linux. Some might by certain cards, like a Matrix for video, or a SB Live for sound just becuase these companies released source. It is expected. The same thing with printers. You might have to buy some hardware just for linux.
I remember I got a TNT card just becuase NVidia released open source drivers for them. However, it didn't matter that much, becuase they haven't gotten any real updates besides having xscreensaver opengl hacks to not flicker. I also heard even the lowly g200 is faster than a TNT under linux, becuase they have actual programming specs.
So, I would like to ask, will specs be released and are they needed to make sound card drivers? I am pretty sure that I will not contribute anything besides maybe bug reports, even if specs are released, but with specs, I would suspect a better driver would be released. I hope it won't end up like the TNT drivers, where nobody changes them becuase they have no idea what to do without specs.
Emacs/Xemacs is one that people use, today. I don't feel like thinking of any more, but that one was just to easy to think up. *BSD's too (ok, one more). Gcc/egcs (im not sure if that is really a fork).
You see, it is hard to be competition for something that a free and satisfactory for most of it's users (yea, boo hoo, some jerk wants to use gimp for publishing, but he's not most people). This is reality, not Open Source bigotry. I am not saying it won't sell, but it is hardly competition unless it is free. Remember, almost everybody will take something free of lower quality over something expensive (at least to most) of higher quality.
People still don't wanna pay money for stuff, no matter how maintream linux becomes. You might be intreasted in it, but most gimp users will be satisfied enough with gimp, since they don't use it for profesional purposes. These people don't care about corel or oracle, they just want an image editor for web pages.
Some people hear seem to forget that this isn't just some guy who is new to computers, but has never used a computer before. GUI's you all have mentioned are great, but are not simple. I say use AfterStep, since all he has to do is click big icons. Bye the way, AS was my first Linux GUI, and the only problem I had with it was trying to configure it (add backgrounds, change button images) (but I guess you will be doing that for him). I guess AS has some config tool by now though.
But since you say he has a problem with windows+pointers anyway, the easiest one for him to use would be text based. So use DOS + some menu program in dos + WordPerfect 5.1. The only problem is the web browser. Even if lynx does work under dos (I pretty sure it would), it might be hard to explain to him why some web pages look horrible under them. But most sites look OK under lynx (considering it is text based).
I am not gonna say something silly like you need Maya to be usefull, but there needs to be some way to get skeletal information from a blender file into a game, at least for the type of games I would like to make/play. The simplest way would just be to release specs on the blender file format, or make another file format for which blender exports to, which is documented (like lighwtwave of 3ds formats). Maybe an open plug-in system. Will blender 2.0 provide any of these?
Before responding, can you give link me to some game/demo you have made that uses models exported from blender, and with advanced information (bones, colors, textures, etc).
Slashdot Mirror
I assume you two complained when slahsdhot reported beta versions of E were released, and that E has it's own slashdot icon.
How the hell is Quake major software? It is just a game (joking aside).
This is making things easier. It is a 1.0 quality window manager that works well with GNOME. If it wasn't for this window manager, I would be using KDE now, no doubt about it.
This WM has been around for a while. It isn't bleeding edge stuff.Why would you even say that? It is just a quality WM, that is at 1.0.
The difference between IceWM and most of the other shit of freshmeat is that it is actually finished, 1.0 software. It is not like this WM is at 0.1 of 50 other 0.1 window managers.
Besides, there have been many good window managers, and desktop envirements to go with them. Why do you care if 20 guys make there own crappy versions? It is unlikely they would have helped out the other good window managers.
You are lucky 2 guys already responded, I would have moderated that post down if it had not been replied too.
Funny thing is that the original closed source quake would let you easily do that. You just had to change the skins on your models to use fullbrights. I guess the client should have gotten md5sums from all the files before it started to make sure this didn't happen.
I havent played an FPS in a while (month or two), but after trying out q3demotest with my TNT under linux, the performance was fine. My definition of fine is 5+ fps, but q3demotest scores 3 times that:)
Try it. Download demotest overnight, and see how it is.
NVidia TNT/TNT2
3dfx Voodoo Cards
Matrox G200/G400
3D cards with those chipsets should all work. Since those are the only consumer level cards that work well with q3 under linux, there is not really a reason to make a website to those 3 card types. It may look bad on the surface, but of course most 3D cards use one of those chipsets.
Under Linux, yes, thats normal. With everything turned on, with my tnt on a p2-300, I get 10. Without lightmaps, I get 15fps.
I am sure you have heard the reason for this, so if you want speed under linux, get a voodoo3 or g400.
I had this mpeg that mpegtv would display fine, but the sound was all choppy. SMPEG played it fine. Plus, SMPEG wont have that anoyying shareware dialog box when you start up the gui version (I think, I never got the smpeg gui to compile, but I guess that is just my system).
See, it really didn't even matter that a linux binary wasn't included in the box, or that they didn't specicify i386 linux. They forgot to mention that this ONLY supports 3dfx cards. That is a HUGE deal to most of us, more than that petty shit I just mentioned.
I assumed that OpenGL/Mesa was supported by this time for the linux port, and that the delay was just temporary. I was going to waste my time downloading the whole binary just to read the README file just to be sure.
Now I know. Thabk you.
They should mention that even with my 486, an i386, it won't run worth a damn. Wtf. Come on people, please tell me about this before I download this stuff.
I'm sorrym, I wouldn't have said anything, but fileplanet did mention that these were linux i386 binaries before you download them. Though I would like it if they would just post the damn readme, so I could see if the linux version needs glide, or if it will run with just opengl.
If that happpened, couldn't I, or anyone else who deosn't actually own UT, just download the file, and have it counted as a linux related sale.
Anyway, I was going to download the thing anyway, to look at the README file included. I wanna know if the linux version has opengl support.
Shit, somebody remembered FX Fighter. I have that game somewhere in my closet or something.
Anyway, you forgot Virtua Fighter 1 + 2 for Windows95. They are/were the definitive 3d fighting games. I whish they had more for the PC. Tekken 3 would sure as hell be nice. VF3 would probably run in some form on a PC. And while someones at it, make a linux port.
Get the TNT/TNT2 drivers from the glx CVS server, or snapshots. I guess you could find the website by looking for "glx", "mesa", and "tnt" on google.
Xscreensaver will work double buffered (which means it won't flicker, if anybody else has that problem), but, expect that you will have bugs in other GL apps. Also, will be a lot less stable. An unstable X can and will crash the entire system. To top off that, no matter how hard you try to optimize it with -mpentiumpro cflags and such, the CVS driver will be slower than the binary released by nvidia.
~17fps I get with q2 under linux. But under windows I get ~50. This is with an old dirty tnt. I haven't tried it in a while.
They have drivers for most of the big chip makers, NVidia, G400, and 3dfx. Some are slow, but they are there. And notice I said most, as there is no complete driver for ATI, or whatever oddball chip you may have on your card. But saying there are almost no hardware drivers is bullshit.
Linux has few things over Be on the desktop. Its free (most importantly), and it supports more hardware and software. This is a good enough reason to not give up on making linux desktop software. I hope that was not what you were aking people to do.
Even if it is OpenGL, it doesn't have to use T&L. I don't think quake uses GL lighting, and if they do it is for spark effects, not the main level lighting. And you can always do transformations before they get to the card, which is what crystal space does. I suspect a lot of cross-API games (that use directx, glide, and opengl) use OpenGL just for a rasterizer.
It is just that opengl is designed for T&L, which is why at least the T part is used alot.
I know you might think, its a hardware driver, if it works, why would you need open source drivers.
But hardware drivers for 3d cards are almost never perfectly, and it is common for a company to release several drivers before they are usable for most games. Especially opengl drivers, which seem to only be made for the sake of Quake*.
Think how half-ass the drivers will be for linux. And do you really think that they will fix bugs in a timely manner, for an alternative OS. Hell no.
For an alternative OS, you need programming specs, and maybe some open source drivers to accompany it. Even without programming specs, you can get a few bugs fixed (like the NVidia OGL driver from the glx cvs server does not have that XScreenSaver bug, but it is slower than the released version). However, without specs, something that is just open source like the NVidia tnt drivers, can't really be updated. That is why the TNT is slower than the G200 on linux. That is why open source drivers don't matter, but specs do.
Linux has printer drivers, and a lot of them. Since you are talking about real people, I will use cheapo color printers as an example, which it seems everybody is getting. Lots of them support linux. At least the older ones. Though I guess in a few months, the situation might have changed, and all of the new ones could use gdi (which means they probably never work under linux). Worst case scenario you could just get an older printer. Its not like printers for home use have got that much better over the years.
Some people who use linux need this special hardware, as they had no alternative already on linux. Some might by certain cards, like a Matrix for video, or a SB Live for sound just becuase these companies released source. It is expected. The same thing with printers. You might have to buy some hardware just for linux.
I remember I got a TNT card just becuase NVidia released open source drivers for them. However, it didn't matter that much, becuase they haven't gotten any real updates besides having xscreensaver opengl hacks to not flicker. I also heard even the lowly g200 is faster than a TNT under linux, becuase they have actual programming specs.
So, I would like to ask, will specs be released and are they needed to make sound card drivers? I am pretty sure that I will not contribute anything besides maybe bug reports, even if specs are released, but with specs, I would suspect a better driver would be released. I hope it won't end up like the TNT drivers, where nobody changes them becuase they have no idea what to do without specs.
Emacs/Xemacs is one that people use, today. I don't feel like thinking of any more, but that one was just to easy to think up. *BSD's too (ok, one more). Gcc/egcs (im not sure if that is really a fork).
You see, it is hard to be competition for something that a free and satisfactory for most of it's users (yea, boo hoo, some jerk wants to use gimp for publishing, but he's not most people). This is reality, not Open Source bigotry.
I am not saying it won't sell, but it is hardly competition unless it is free. Remember, almost everybody will take something free of lower quality over something expensive (at least to most) of higher quality.
People still don't wanna pay money for stuff, no matter how maintream linux becomes. You might be intreasted in it, but most gimp users will be satisfied enough with gimp, since they don't use it for profesional purposes. These people don't care about corel or oracle, they just want an image editor for web pages.
Some people hear seem to forget that this isn't just some guy who is new to computers, but has never used a computer before. GUI's you all have mentioned are great, but are not simple. I say use AfterStep, since all he has to do is click big icons. Bye the way, AS was my first Linux GUI, and the only problem I had with it was trying to configure it (add backgrounds, change button images) (but I guess you will be doing that for him). I guess AS has some config tool by now though.
But since you say he has a problem with windows+pointers anyway, the easiest one for him to use would be text based. So use DOS + some menu program in dos + WordPerfect 5.1. The only problem is the web browser. Even if lynx does work under dos (I pretty sure it would), it might be hard to explain to him why some web pages look horrible under them. But most sites look OK under lynx (considering it is text based).
I am not gonna say something silly like you need Maya to be usefull, but there needs to be some way to get skeletal information from a blender file into a game, at least for the type of games I would like to make/play. The simplest way would just be to release specs on the blender file format, or make another file format for which blender exports to, which is documented (like lighwtwave of 3ds formats). Maybe an open plug-in system. Will blender 2.0 provide any of these?
Before responding, can you give link me to some game/demo you have made that uses models exported from blender, and with advanced information (bones, colors, textures, etc).