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Carmack on the retail Quake3 for linux
Fritti writes "Carmack's new .plan talks about the retail version of Quake3Arena (besides announcing a Mac version of the demo); he asks Linux/Mac users to make a statement toward the distributors and resellers, and to wait for the appropriate boxed version before buying. "If everyone bought a windows version and the other boxes sold like crap in comparison, that would be plenty of evidence for most executives to can any cross platform development.". "
What's the current situation? Does the quake package contain all the binaries, but the sales just get reported as being for "Windows"?
That's what happened a few years back with other Mac software... We'd have to buy the cross-platform version only to find our purchases were reported as being Windows sales and the publishers would pull back Mac support because of cited "lack of interest"..
And if your local retailer doesn't carry the Q3A for LINUX, spend $5 extra and order it online.
I already preordered the tin-box windows version. I can't use my TNT very well under linux anyway. Sorry John!
a lot of people would like to buy a cd with both binaries (win9x and linux-x86).
If that is possible, it would be very good - but we would n't know how many of them actually used the linux version.
Hmm
Same thing happend with Myth, IIRC.
The CD inside was a hybrid Mac/PC, but they created two different boxes in order to track the sales.
This is important for sure!
The stupid thing, on the distributer end of course, is that the default is Windez.
Argh. I'm just glad that there are multi-platform games like Quake3 and Unreal Tournament coming out. Maybe Linux and Mac users will benefit greatly in the future if this all goes well!
Pope
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
I would buy a version of such a game if the hardware needed to run the game wasn't something that was comparable to an IBM mainframe or something. Why do games have to bloated and take up more and more resources? If I ever write games (and eventually I will write something because I think that most games do not suit me) I will make sure that almost everyone can run them.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
4th post
5th post
Its called lazy programmers, or Intel/SDRAM/3D card manufactures are paying the developers to WRITE BLOAT!
As long as I can download linux binarys and play deathmatch i'm happy
I would like to buy a linux version but linux games are really hard to get (at least in the netherlands) so I guest I'll have to wait to after x-mas.
I think the sales of Q3 are not going to represent the demand for linux games correctly, people don't want to travel 100 miles to get the linux version of a game, they just stick to the windows version and download the linux executable when it's available.
we'll all have to go to our local computer shop or wherever they sell games and ask for linux games. if there is a large enough demand they'll will sell them. but for now many stores are afraid that if they put linux games in the shelves, they won't sell them.
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Creative as people like Carmack and other game developers are, it's still about The Biz. I know a mid-level exec from a major game co, and his work-talk isn't about games, techniques, developers, or even markets. What I hear from him is bottom line, expense accounts, perqs, distribution numbers -there's this thick layer of, well, Schmaltz, on top of the business of game copying and distribution.
I've never gotten a sense of comprehension of what players want, and how they're gonna get it to them. Course, he's in Manhattan, and people there tend to be work-and-income focused more than most other places I'm familiar with.
Big Daddy, Johnny, Burp, Aunt Zelda, Scott, Slurp, Big Momma
Your other option would be online sales, which would probably work pretty darn well in the Linux world, but not in Win-world.
6th post
Don't they have server logs? Can't they tell thru which client someone is connecting? Can't they just aggregate this data and generate figures through this? Are they dumb?
ahhh just like yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater
Does anyone know if ID is supporting non-Intel Linuxeseseses (oops, sorry there)? I'm running LinuxPPC, and probably won't have $$$ to get a decent Intel machine (other things in line first) until mid-to-late 2000. [I'm also trying to slowly phase out non-open source os's.]
I'm sure Alpha-Linux ans Sparc-Linux fans would really go for Quake also!
Just asking, thanks
RobK
Myddrin
Choices. You have them. If you want to play the latest games then you'll have to keep your machine up to date. That is how it has always been. Scads of people seem to do this. I don't really see the necessity or point in such behavior. I enjoy playing games with more depth than these. Typically those types of game run on nearly every computer. (see Stars!)
There are plenty of great games being produced for the lowest common denominator. You just don't hear about them because they don't have the same marketing/media hype that these high-tech games have.
I still don't see why you are complaining so much though. My computer seems to run Quake3test just fine with all the options turned on, and it is over a year and a half old now which is quite old for gaming standards. I may or may not purchase the game, I can't justify spending 60 bucks on something I'll use for a month. The only reason I would purchase it is to support id and Carmack. I bought the old Linux version of Quake for exactly that reason. I applaud their foresight.
V
Games look better on a 35in screen while you play sunken deep in a soft sofa. Sitting 15in from a PC screen is less than the ideal gaming environment. Just IMHO. Hook the PC to the TV? Well, Playstations are easy and designed to hook up to TVs. But PCs? Few PC->TV converters can handle very many video modes; and which mode any given PC game will choose is a crap shoot.
30th post?
If they can programm on two bit processors I would be amazed!
I don't advocate this, but....
Something tells me that some "warez" groups are going to release the Windows binaries anyway. If you really want to play across the two, your chances of getting a Windows binary is better than your chances of getting a Linux binary. So if you do own the CD, getting Windows binaries for use with the Linux version seems better than finding Linux binaries to work with the Windows version.
Hey, you do own a license for the game.....
I think that in this case, piracy might be justified. If you really can't wait for the Linux version, pirate the windows version off of a friend until the Linux version is available. Everybody's still getting the money so no big deal right, and by waiting for the Linux version, we're all making a statement in support of Linux software. Finally, I think it would be neat to put Linux/Windows versions on the same CD and just use different boxes to track shipping. I'm sure if they're clever they could even put it in the same box and give it two different codes. Then the retailer will use the Linux code if it is sold as a Linux box, and the Windows code if it is sold as a windows box. That way the retailers can "alter" their stock to meet supply and demand but still get accurate records.
The best way for them to tell what people are using is to release them all at the same time. Releasing the Windows version, then a month or two down the line releasing the Mac and Linux version, won't give an accurate result.
If they are all released at the same time it will show which platform people prefer playing it on, as they will buy that version first.
I always thought they were going to release them all at once, bummer.
--PLEASE!!--
I know there are a lot of people that play in both windows and linux, and this may be a bit of an inconvenience in the short term, but this is an ideal time to cast a vote as a consumer.
I'd really love to stop using Windows totally, but as a serious gamer that's just not a possibility at this point. So go put your money where your mouth is and help convince game companies that they should make Linux versions of All games. A pipe dream yes I know, but id was the first game company to realize the power of demo's (err, shareware) and hopefully they can lead the charge again.
Support Linux, buy Quake3 in the box with the Penguin on it(?).
+&x
Grab the modified SVGA server from NVIDIA and run the little installation script.
Quake 2 looks good (in a window) and q3test looks great (full screen) with my TNT2 and XFree86 3.3.5. You'll probably also want to update your Mesa library. (I think I had to make a symbolic link to a slightly-modified libMesa, too.)
--
QDMerge 0.4!
how to invest, a novice's guide
It's certainly doable. I know because I can't stop playing. It's just a lot slower than a Voodoo3 or G200/G400.
--
You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me.
It is an expression of being worth a couple of "bits" in this case bits refers to a small percentage of a quarter. It's amazing how few people actually read history on this site. Obviously the above poster was a little more informed even though it is not revelent
How many times does Wolfenstein need to be rewritten with less plot, more gore, and a pinch of new features?
I recall reading an old PC Gamer a couple months ago, where they unwrapped the upcoming Quake. Its system demands were pretty high (DX2/66 minimum), but they insisted this was necessary, because they didn't want to 'do a Doom 3'. Here they are, doing *Quake* 3 that does little more than add support for the 3D hardware buzzword of the week.
I'd like to see some genuinely new features in Quake. Number 1, get rid of that awful engine that gives people headaches and nausea. Number 2, evolve beyond the first person shoot 'em up genre and do something groudbreaking like Wolfenstein again.
My $40.02 (reflects approximate savings from NOT buying Q3A)
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E2 IN2 IE?
That said, at least they're easier to find than DVD ROM's in the shops.
Adam:What kept you?
God:Rome wasn't built in a day
for linux/x86 only, or will it be available for all other archs (ppc, alpha, sparc, arm, m68k?)?
of course, this a rhetorical question. i'm sure he means only x86. i wish people would be more specific when they say "for linux". "for linux" only makes sense if you're releasing the source (in which case you can compile it on any arch, barring any endian or asm depenencies).
AFAIK a .plan update from Brian Hook (I believe)
detailed the architecture for their optimization
system.
They have all their 'optimizables' in
one file which is compiled as a dll.
The fallback is naturally a C implmententation of each function. Then for special processors they do optimized versions of each function in a
file/dll for that processor.
At runtime they detect your processor and load
the best dll for the job.
with all the activity and mirrors of the windows version, i wonder if anyone has been so kind as to mirror the mac version? i can't seem to get to any of the sites i've tried so far to see, least of all quake3arena.com.
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
Just thought of something I didn't include in my first post. Why not just put the Windows and Linux versions on the same CD and in the same Box and simply have a business reply card that says "Which operating system did you purcahse this software for, check one ..." I can't speak for the rest of the community, but I would definitely take the 3 seconds and 33 cents required to show my support of the Linux version in this manner. This would really be the best way to do it, I think since it is easier on every party involved.
50th post?
After Xmas (according to Carmack), you'll be able to download the binaries for each version. So I wouldn't worry about that too much.
Buy the Linux version, and yoink the Windows binaries from someone else if you really need to in the meantime. That should be possible, and hopefully that doesn't violate any laws.
counting how many copies of what version sell
.or.
ananlyzing thousands of server logs from around the world, collected from random individuals running random servers, which might be up or down depending on the day or even the time of day. Add in the other uncontrolled variable (dynamic IP's, shared copies, etc) and it becomes obvious that there is a much simpler way to figure out how many people on what platform use the software (see paragraph 1).
+&x
What's the real difference between Wolf3D, Doom and Quake? Nothing.
The company is (or was) very creative, and obviously has a lot of talented people. Why not put all that to work and make something new? I voted for Linux games with my dollars by buying Civ CTP for Linux (in Electronic Boutique in the mall, no less). I am NOT going to vote for re-hashed FPS's with my dollars.
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
7th post
Carmack could just release the linux version first and please us. Yes, it's unfair, but it really sends a jolt through the Windows user base. Plus, it has seemed as though he truly felt Linux was the best of the three OSes he used. Yes, I do remember his statements to the fact that he uses an NT network, but for ease of development, I must say that linux provides the best platform. So, if the world saw a Linux version say a week before a Windows version, then Carmack would be sending the shockwave himself, and we would all be happy. Now if I could only find out why my mouse doesn't work properly in LinQuake, that would be sweet. (Anyone know of workarounds that haven't been published on www.linuxquake.com or the HOWTO? My Intellimouse doesn't want to work right.)
ALL HAIL BRAK!!!
.. in the same package/box, AFAIK.
2 CDs. One with the Win32/Linux binaries and another with S3TC textures on it.
And it should be out at the end of this week.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
I just think this is awesome that John Carmack is risking making more money, faster to promote platform choice. I can not think of any other company that has made an appeal this.. Hats off idSoftware!
mailto:sales@compusa.com
I'm sending a message asking when the retail
version of Linux Quake3 Arena will be there...
Mark
As many people have pointed out, it simply is not that practical to attempt to hunt down a linux version if you can simply buy the windows version and download an exe.
What would make more sense would be for id to track the number of linux exe downloads and publish those statistics. Or they could ask you to specify the primary OS that will be used for the game as part of the game registration (assuming people would actually take the time to register).
What is the difference between Quake 3 and Quake 2?
If I already have Quake2 why don't I just slap on a Gladator/Reaper bot and CTF mod on? Why should I go out and buy a new Quake3?
It has improved graphics but is that worth going out and buying the game again?
Is this another TombRaider 2/3/4?
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
There are people who don't know that already? :)
00 - Goto address 00
01 - Blink Light 0
10 - Blink Light 1
11 - Debugger Breakpoint ( unused )
Address: Instruction:
00 01
01 10
10 00
Heh - even had a 2-bit instruction space to spare.
Yikes! I too have put money down on my first release Collectors Tin box of Q3. I was thinking that they would put all platforms on the same CD or have the binaries available right away for Linux. So now I'm gonna cancel my pre-order or switch it from Windoze to Linux if they've got the option at my local software rip-off store. Some of the posts I've been reading so far are calling people to buy the Linux version (because we intend to use them) and get the binaries for Windoze from the net or friends. I admire Carmack for asking people to buy the version that they will play on to send the message to the corporate womp-rats who can't see past the dollar$ in their eyes. Id/Carmack is just going to keep on developing in Linux anyway. I myself don't have a dual boot set up yet on my game machine because I'm still waiting for quality drivers for my hardware that have been promised. So, for the short while I will have to play my Q3 on Windoze, but I'm still going to buy the Linux version. I don't think that Carmack really gives a shit if I "pirate" the game for a few days before and then the windoze binaries after the release of the Linux boxed version as long as I do buy the game.
So, buy the Linux version.
For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the sheltered will never know.
Since many people running Linux are well connected, why not make the software availabe for on-line purchase?
Of course, boxed versions and retail space have some positive effect on public perception and are desirable from that point of view for making people aware that Linux is good at gaming. But that seems to me like a separate issue from whether the gaming company itself makes money off the product.
If you love Linux and/or MacOS than wait a little while and buy Q3 with the appropriate OS on the box. After that you can download the binaries from id for whatever other OS you want.
As Carmac said in his log Linux and Mac support is a given with id, but healthy sales for Q3 in Linux or Mac flavor will perk the interest of other game companies. Perhaps even Sierra and Interplay. That means more Linux and Mac games!
-- They can have my Mac when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers --
As a linux q2-server operator and a Win32-gamer, I really feel left out in the cold over this decision not to release downloadable binaries. My server machine runs Linux, while my home PC is Win32-based. What am I supposed to do? I can't afford to buy both the Win32 version and the Linux version (and no, piracy isn't an option). Surely, I'm not the only one who's getting shafted in this deal.
Why can't id software just track how many people download the respective alternate OS binaries if they really need to log that data? Heck, I'd even fill out a goofy info form just to get the download, a la Real Player.
Is there any word about the performance of the game?
I mean, is the Intel Linux version better than the Windows version running on the same machine or not?
Is the Linux PPC version (if it exists, I have been ignorant about this so far) better than the MacOS version running on the same machine or not?
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You may like my a cappella music
id will be releasing the binaries for all the executables like they always do, as well as all updates to those binaries. So it doesn't really matter which version you buy, you just copy over the game data (map, graphics, sound), download and install the latest binary and away you go. The whole point in buying the Linux version is so they have some hard data ($$$) to show the value in Linux ports.
"the voices in my head say crazy things"
Does Fugazi make t-shirts now? I remember a little while back that they didn't. Hence the whole "This is not a Fugazi t-shirt" thing.
So I understand the whole "wait for the linux version" deal.
Apparently there's some way to buy the windows version and get a freebie ticket for the linux version when it is released. So I assume that when this happened in the past (has it?), all the linux people bought the windows version and then "upgraded" when the linux version became available.
Here's my question. If gaming companies are looking for evidence of Linux interest, why are they just looking at sales? Do not the download volumes of linux binaries also matter?
Why can't they say "well, uh there were 153,893 windows versions bought, and then 53,000 people turned in their coupons for the linux version... So we sold 100,893 windows versions."
Or am I missing something?
"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2
"It was like trying to herd cats..." - Robert A. Heinlein
Sig:
Barbeque is a noun. Not a verb.
I had the same problem playing quake2 with my intellimouse. The file you need to edit is /etc/vga/libvga.config, uncomment the correct mouse on comment the one you're on. You might also have to play with the mouse acceleration settings. Hope this helps bro.
-- My neighbors dog has a four inch clit.
You can still consider yourself lucky - it's easier to buy games in the Netherlands than in Germany. I had no problems finding a copy of Q2 in the NL, but German shops cannot advertise for violent games (they're for adults only, treated like pornography). Some shops have a copy if you explicitly ask for them, but it's a long search to find one. What a strange situation... I don't think it'll be different with Q3.
Now that there were some US-like killings in Germany (a student kills his history teacher with a knife, another one shoots several persons with his father's weapons) the media are already catching up and do the same bad coverage (from the journalistic point of view) as in the US, so I guess the situation will not become better. Sigh...
Don't get me wrong, those killings are tragic. But I think they're unrelated to the fact that violent video games were played by these individuals. In the typical German way (vorauseilender Gehorsam) all future games by companies like id soft get the 'adult' label.
>The rewrote q3 to take advantage of all the features of 3d cards.
...
Better graphics...
>The improve the network code to point where even people with >150 ping can play.
This doesn't help those who don't play online. (Too many llamas)
But better networking is still an improvement
>They added professionally designed bots.
I believe the guy they hired already did a bot for Quake2 (either Gladiator or Reaper). After playing the demotest I don't think its that much of an improvement over a quake2 bot.
>They have 30 professionally designed levels designed SOLELY for internet gaming.
There are tons of levels for online gaming out there, freely downloadable. Lots of them are professionally done also. Nothing new here.
> Anyone who's played q3 knows that it is a different, much more enjoyable experience than playing quake or q2 online. This is innovation.
How? I played both and its a bit different but it is not "innovation". Just better graphics and better networking code.
The weapons are the same. The jumppads are already done in HalfLife. The powerup are similar to quake 2. Capture the Flag is not new. Where is the innovation?
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Plus, bean counting log files, assuming that everyone running a server is kind enough to send them to the publisher, would be time consuming and costly.
This sucks. My brother is going to get several weeks of play time before I can even get the game. I'll tell you what, why doesn't ID sell the other platforms over the web and let us bypass those stupid distributors and their middleman mentalities. I for one don't want to be left in the dust waiting for my brother to play. I'll have to buy the damn game twice. Once to play, once to vote.
I can play Quake2 in linux by using my windows quake2 cd and a few megabytes of extra downloaded executables. Why can't they just put some linux binary on the same cd so everybody's happy with the same box?
Greetings,
Ivo
Word for today: oxymoron
:)
If there's such a thing as a serious gamer, then I guess I'm a frivilous database administrator.
I don't enjoy strategy or sports games - but I don't complain about it... I just don't buy them
I think the best reason not to have an online purchase (purely, you can already order games online) is that the game is going to be 4-500 megabytes.
Most people are not that "well connected".
PHB's understand sales figures. The developer support for Linux is already there, that is not the problem. Don't overestimate executives...
-
We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
And I suppose an Atari 2600 is just as good to you as a brand new Dreamcast?
BTW. Groundbreaking was done last year my man. It's called... Half-Life (only the most kick-ass FPS game ever... at least the single player version.)
My $40.02 (Reflects approximate savings after spending hundreds upon hudreds on games and computer upgrades annually and then offsetting the cost by not having a girlfriend/wife/kids... Not that I don't want those.)
For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the sheltered will never know.
-Is it more violent than Quake. No, but it is more violent than Pong.
-What is it like?
Its pretty immersive. Quake1/2 single player is a joke comparied to HalfLife. Quake plot: You are a solider on an alien planet, kill anything which moves. HalfLife plot: You are a scientist, survive the day.
It also has Team Fortress Classic and CounterStrike, two excellent online mods.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
If you can't see the innovation John Carmack has introduced to 3D graphics you are BLIND. How about John Cash's network code? 64 people running around the same map shooting each other up and having a blast? When were you ever able to do that in a 3D FPS before? That's innovation pal.
Where have all the retail quality text-adventures gone? Remember when the biggest thrill in life was reading your copy of the New Zork Times (until those fascists at the New York Times made them change it to the Status Line) to see what the latest from Infocom was? Of course, my all time favorite text adventure was Enchanter, but it's a close cousin of Zork. Oh well, I guess I'll have to write my own... using TADS! (The Text Adventure Development System) It's really cool!
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Obviuosly, JC is just looking to get the solid gold seat covers for his Ferrari. If they can develop a game like Q3, I'm pretty sure they could track the number of Linux d/ls and use that to figure the user base.
Its all about packaging.
Most people (normal consumers) expect something which they can touch and feel if they are going to shell out big bucks.
I pay $X and I can take this nice, colourful, big box home.
OR
I pay $X and I can wait online for about an hour while a progress bar fills up.
Just look at some of DVD movie packages. Big size boxes just to hold 1 CD sized disks.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
My suggestion is that id release two versions of the game. One version is Windows only, the other version, at the same price, is a Linux/Mac/Windows bundle. Then see which version gets carried by your distribution. If distributors have any Mac or Linux pull from their customers then they will opt to stock the bundled version. If not, they wouldn't want to confuse their market, and they would order the Windows only version (choke, choke...)
Carmack and Cash did that in Quake2. And an excellent job at that. I never denied that.
I am asking about Quake 3. What is innovative in Quake 3 which hasn't been done in Quake 2?
What is NEW in Quake3?
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Would it be a bad or good marketing move to put all three versions of Quake III on one ISO 9660 formatted CD-ROM?
;o).
... yea ... that's it.
On one hand, you have the fact that people will probably just buy the Windows version (yes, even hardcore Linuxers like me), and then hapilly await the official Linux release or Mac release on the Internet, it only makes sense, as this is the way many are used to doing it.
On the other hand, you have everyone buying the same thing with all three versions, and just being able to use it with whatever they want.
Would it be such a bad idea to sell one CD? I think if one CD were sold, it would actually probably sell more than three different CDs. And truthfully, I think the Linux CD would flop in a big way (about, oh, 10 people in the state of Maryland would buy the Linux version? so count US out
And errr
yeah
Quake2's license info /does/ allow people to set up multiplayer servers and play the client with only 1 license. Here's the relevant excerpt from \quake2\docs\licinfo.txt:
CAN DO:
-- Play & enjoy the single player game;
-- Setup a full version based server on a not-for-profit basis
I agree that it's nice to use this data to show other companies about the value of Linux gamers, but I don't want to be a martyr for the cause (I just don't want to wait a month or longer to download Linux binaries, especially when I feel that I am doing the q2/q3 community a service by running a server.)
This is in response to many people who ask why not a hybrid cd, or quick downloads... Read the plan..carefully. Carmack would like to do a hybrid CD version. He chose not to. This is clearly not because he wants to screw the Linux/Mac crowd. A big part of this whole set-up id is using is to convince the DISTRIBUTORS and RETAILERS (CompUSA, etc) that Linux/Mac versions will sell. Id is going to support these platforms in the future no matter what. If they offered Linux/Mac versions on the same CD or as downloadable binaries, all the distributors/retailers would see is "Ok, 900,000 sales of the game that contain the Windows version". They (the distributors/retailers) don't care how many people download the Linux/Mac executable, no matter how many logs id presents them with, because it has nothing to do with them. They deal only in the physical goods of the box. While you may be slightly inconvienced due to the Windows version coming out before the Linux version, in the long term this release, if Linux/Mac users have the patience to wait for the right version, will be the first step towards changing the attitudes of these distributors/retailers. Dont blame id, they are going to release the game near simultanously for all markets, they just realize that currently the distributors will give preference to the Windows version. Why is half of Slashdot so negative? Lashing out at id is exactly the wrong response. This has the potential to be a GREAT thing. Uh that's all.
Carmack is in control of the binaries. And if the man releases the Linux binary first and says all systems go to his retailer, they'll put it out. They make money off this deal too, so whether or not he releases all at once, or staggers (in a favorable method towards Linux) them, the retailer and id will enjoy a good holiday (whichever one comes next after the release).
ALL HAIL BRAK!!!
I think that one thing they could do to judge the size of the linux base would be to
and I know this is crazy,
put the linux distro out for download.
Look at what they would get...
1. the only people to download it would be
a. linux users
b. people with a fast internet connection
I can remember downloading the Q3 test at college a month or two ago,
and it still took about 10 min, even with my share of an OC-3, so it would take forever to download from the home on a 56K
id Soft wouldn't lose much money, cause there wouldn't be that many downloads, but they could judge the size of the linux base
of course, if they put it on the shelf as a linux distro and a Win 98/2k distro, im buying the linux,
that's for sure.
but to make the two releases would be costly.
~Zero
sig?
Wrong. There's actually quite a big difference: gameplay. Wolf3D was a nice, groundbreaking game with decent playability. Then came Doom, with more gameplay than virtually any other game before or since. The only possible exceptions that I can think of are Space Invaders (yes, really), Angband, Tetris and Elite. Quake had an awesome 3D engine (for the time), but the gameplay sucked bigtime.
Think about the acid test. How often do you play each of the three today? I, and most people I know, still go back for the odd game of Doom. Good though it was at the time, I don't do the same for Wolf3D, and I definitely don't for Quake.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Is that an uncontrolled variable?
Last post naked and petrified!
Honestly, I'm not ever a big Q3 fan. I do play it once in a while, and I'll buy the linux version of Q3 just to show my support. Because in actually BUYING the software is how you really show your support.
If people that are going to wait a little while(read after christmas) to get the Win32 version, why not show some linux support and buy the linux version and download the Win32 binary?
Also, this hasn't be addressed I don't think, but is there going to be a linux distro bundled in with Q3 for linux? That may be a great selling point. People may go "Quake 3 for linux? I don't have linux...wait....there is a version of linux all set to play Q3 included? And if I don't like linux I can just download the Win32 binary to play in windows? Why NOT get it?"
What's $45 in the whole jist of things if it means that a good linux sales figure would mean other companies making games for linux? What if Looking Glass looks at Q3's sales figures, combines them with the e-mails asking for a linux port, and we see a boxed System Shock 2? Or seeing the great sales figures, EA Sports trys a Triple Play 2001 port to test the waters? All this because alot of slashdot readers and linux gamers put down a couple bucks for a game they will play for a long while.
I work with Andy Henderson, one of the participants in LokiHack.
When he found out that he'd been accepted into the competition, he went down to Best Buy to *TRY* to find a copy of Civ3 for Linux.
Despite the fact that Worst Buy sells the Linux os itself, there's no other software for it there. None. Gobs of civ3 boxes for windows, but out of a hundred of these, not one copy of the Linux version. Same situation if you want the Mac version, although I'm fortunate enough, in that regard, to live near a pretty good CompUSA.
Given the frusteration level involved in finding the game for the proper OSs. I too would probably be driven to buying the winblows version and DLing the proper executables later....
But only if I thought Carmack was wrong about the marketing drone mentality. Which, I suspect, he is not. I don't, however, see why the DLs of the alternate executablys couldn't be tracked instead of box purchases.
(Hell, and what about those of us, like me, who have Linux, Macintosh and windoze boxen?)
I, for one, will wait, and vote for either the Mac or Linux version, rather than contribute to marketing data which will not reflect my tre computing habits.
john
Imagine all the people...
There are people who pretend they don't know.
We call them clueless Linux users.
Very slow, actually, for now, anyway.
yeah
a fledgling OS trying to make some type of inroad into the gaming/desktop market, and all ID can think of is marketing numbers?
as others have said, just put all three versions in the box.
it's way too early to pull marketing numbers on linux; they would be meaningless anyway.
if you really need stats, actual use on the net would mean a lot more, id the packets or something.
Alright, I've heard far too many people on this thread asking why they can't just track the downloads of the Linux binaries. They can. Obviously. But do you really think that marketing staffs at most software companies are going to care about how many people download Linux binaries to overlay a *Windows* product? Of course not. They care about sales figures, pure and simple. It's MUCH more compelling to a marketing exec to hear 'Quake 3 for Linux sold xxx million copies'. It shows that there is a wide consumer base out there that's willing to purchase software for Linux! Having software released specifically for the Linux platform is absolutely necessary for Linux to be recognized and taken seriously as a desktop OS.
Hate to tell you this, but they already exist... Original Adventure, Zork (I), etc... used to run Adventure & Zork on my TRS-80 Model-I, and an Apple II. All text, they'd run fine on any platform you decided to port them to.
Of course, in this day and age people want flashy graphics and fast-paced action... and that tends to take CPU power...
you might even learn something.
There seems to be a lot of talk here about the fact that Q3A may (or may not)be a rehashed version of Wolfenstein, Doom, etc. etc
What I don't see mentioned is one of the main reasons why I'll gladly shell my bucks over to Id: they put out quality product, period.
95% of gaming companies don't do this -- they either *can't* do it because they don't have the coding talen or they *won't* do it because the corporate suits insist that they release their product prematurely.
I mean, I'm not an advocate of gaming magazines -- they seem to be glorified hype-machines with dippy writers -- but they are a good thermometer of the gaming culture. Maybe not the "hardcore" culture -- but I think they give a pretty good idea of what Joe Consumer buys when he/she steps into a Best Buy and wants the latest "game".
Now, take a look at the games they "review" at any given time: 85% of the reviews in any given are way, way below the "satisfactory" level. Companies out there are just shovelling the stuff out -- to make money, yes -- but also to cash in on the latest hot license. I mean, stop and think: does anyone think for a minute that there's a *high* probability that the Matrix license will lead to a quality game? It'll probably lead to a so-so game, a mediocore review, and then will be forgotten in two months time.
Id, on other hand, consistently scores pretty well with these gaming magazines and writers. (And, in a tangent rant, you always get the jackoff writers writing dumb editorials: "Hmm. I don't really know what to write in my editorial, so I'll write an editorial about not knowing what to write about in an editorial." Or: "Well, folks, it's been a good XX years, but I've got to move on. I've seen X, and I've seen Y, and well, I can't think of anything else to say, so I'll just write this column about writing a column about saying goodbye to writing columns.")
And, sure, these writers usually say much of what is being said here: that Quake X is a rehash, another Doom, a prettier Wolfenstein. Still, they usually admit (rightly, I think) that, well, Id pretty much sets the standard for graphics and gameplay that many, many other companies follow.
Not to mention they oftentimes set the standard for hardware purchasing, too. I mean, I go by the Id rule: I upgrade whenever a new Quake is out because, well, that's the time to upgrade. I know that if I want pretty eye-candy in Quake, I'll probably get a new graphics card and a new CPU (and maybe a new mobo).
Although Id has problems. The initial releases of Quake 2, for example, were a mess. But they're pretty good about keeping in touch with the community and fixing the problems. I can't say the same for other developers. (Some developers, yes: the Unreal folks, the Half-Life, folks, etc.)
But I just get the sense that Carmack and Co. -- while they of course have to deal with the suits and with their profit margins -- are more likely to put out a quality piece of work than not.
It's not a crap shoot with Id. You know you'll get some a topnothc product. There's no doubt about that. You may not like the gameplay -- or you may find it derivitive, whatever -- but gameplay theory issues aside, the product itself is always kickass.
I mean, hell, Delta Force 2 is a lot like Delta Force. SpecOPS II is a *lot* like SpecOPS I. And with those two products, I don't see the sort of technological leaps you see in Id's products.
They always put out some wildass wicked shit.
You must be joking, right? Contrary to very popular belief, Wolf3d was neither the 'first of it's kind' nor terribly original at that. There were plenty of 3d shooters before Wolf3d ambled into the arena....maybe Wolf3d was one of the first 3d games on the PC platform, but it sure as hell wasn't the 'first ever'.
Secondly, Wolf3d was just a 3d version of the old Apple/C64 Castle Wolfenstein...and a bad version at that. At least the original version had more than just mindless running about blowing things up...you had to use stealth, impersonate guards, and generally use your BRAIN. You weren't some beef-brained 'space marine' (or whatever juvenile name ID cooked up), you were a WWII POW trying to get out alive.
Ultima Underworld (which hit the streets at least a month before Wolf3d did) was truly innovative...3d world, completely interactive, good story line, real puzzles...much more than running around like an idiot blowing things up. THAT was innovative and groundbreaking. Wolf3d/D00m was not. Heck, Ultima Underworld allowed you to run, jump, swim and look up/down...how long did it take ID to do that?
If you want to play a 'modern' innovative game, forget ID Software/Epic Megagames...they're too busy making the latest generation of Wolf3d clones. Try System Shock 2, or Thief: The Dark Project...you'll find a lot of innovation in those games, to be sure. Traditional Quake lovers need not apply...these games require a brain, not a fast trigger finger. No, these games don't require a VooDoo4 or a TNT3 to run and no they don't use the 'Unreal' engine or whatever...but they have atmosphere and plot, something ID sofware and Epic have proven they don't know how to do. (Just look at the so-called 'plots' of Quake II and Unreal...what a joke).
Can id make more money licensing out their engine rather than selling a game directly? Interesting...
Q3 engine does already have sold a few licenses to other companies. Its rumored that a James Bond game is going to be developed.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Online Linux sales!?!
Hahahahahahahahaha!
Hahahahahahahaha!
Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha.
Linux users don't pay for anything!
> The game industry seems uninterested in supporting Windows NT 4.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You misspelled "Microsoft".
Microsoft wants to make sure that nobody can purchase just one version of Windows that meets all of their needs. Therefore, they have crippled NT as a gaming platform. DirectX on NT is only available in version 3.0, when it was pretty much unusable for anything except the most primitive operations. Human Interface Device support is absent. DirectSound support is absent. etc. etc.
Only companies like id, who have the financial and technical resources to make games with a minimal reliance on supporting technologies and APIs, can afford to deploy on Windows NT.
Yeah, right, Quake on a DX2/66 486... ever tried it? I was running it on my 486 DX4/100 and it ran *ok* (just barely ok) with the sound card uninstalled. Once I got the sound card installed, my frame rate dropped to like 4 frames/sec...
I have quake installed on my PC still.. but to tell you the truth, I haven't played a game in months. Got more important things to do on my computer than games...
'It's amazing how few righteously indignant people can actually sense humor.'
The people who decide what platforms to support aren't likely to be system admins or programmers. They also don't care who uses the software the most. They want to know how many coppies of each version they are going to sell. They're looking at the return on investment. If the net profit from a Linux version isn't more that they can make by using the resources to develop something else, they'll cancel the Linux version and have the developers wore on something else (probably another Windows product).
I doubt it's cheaper for ID or the publisher to distribute the software this way, and ID is committed to produce Linux and Mac software regardless of how this turns out. They are giving you the chance to show publishers that there's a high enough demand for Linux games to convince more people to follow their lead. If having Linux games commercially available to you is important, wait and buy the Linux version. If you can't buy Linux games locally, buy it online. ID is a leader in the gaming industry, and they are giving you a chance to prove the market exhists. The rest is up to you.
I agree with you to a point...I may not be a big fan of Quake, but I like ID's attitude. Carmack is the 'last man standing' with respect to supporting multiple platforms, and especially with respect to OpenGL...we need to support him for that, or else we'll never see games on Linux (Just take a look at Tim Sweeney's comments about Direct3d over on unreal.epicgames.com...what a Microsoft toady.)
However, ID isn't the only quality company out there...I'd rank Looking Glass right at the top right now, especially after seeing/playing System Shock 2 and Thief, and having dealt with the company personally.
There is one thing you need to differentiate between though...on one side you've got the game houses like ID and Looking Glass. On the other side, you've got the distributers...monsters like Electronic Arts and Eidos. ID may be willing to support Linux, but I guarantee you that EA/Activision/Eidos do NOT. I wish there was a way to get around the 'middleman' and go directly to the game houses, but unfortunately we usually can't (kind of like the music industry, ain't it?).
Personally, I despise the distributers...especially Eidos. Eidos has been the ruin of more than one game out there. Soul Reaver was forcibly released ahead of schedule by Eidos because they didn't want to wait for it to be finished. Worse, Eidos made Crystal Dynamics CRIPPLE the game just so Eidos could make a damn sequel (this was proven, all of the sounds from the 'original' game are still on the CD, including some major characters that didn't make the final Eidos cut). Eidos did the same thing to Revenant as well (bug ridden, unfinished). It'll be interesting to see if Electronic Arts has forced the compromise of the upcoming Ultima IX, too.
civCTP runs on Linux which means I can play it.
As for your weak defense of Quake vs Doom vs Wolf3D: give me a break. It's like patiently explaining that frozen yogurt is created with bacterial cultures and sold in TCBY stores. So what? It's still just like ice cream! I want to know what is groundbreaking about it. Fat free? Maybe.
In the context of the game what is different between Quake and Wolf3D? Forget technical diffs (different rendering engines, indeed) and minor add-ons (ooooohhhh, multiple level dungeons--big whoop).
---
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
John is being incredibly humble here. The Linux sales of Q3 will be on the radar of every publisher and game developer out there.
It's unfortunate that Q3 is being sold as seperate SKU's because it really does make sense to just release one and then tally the results of who is running the Windows, MacOS, and Linux executables. Besides making technical sense, a single SKU lessens the retailer's return rates which lowers the losses due to cost of goods and thus lets the publisher sell a higher-quality manual and box.
But most people don't register their games, and automatic registration, even if all you're registering is the information, "a unique ip ran the linux binary" is associated with Orwellian tactics.
Another reason publishers shy away from allowing multiple versions in a SKU is because each version creates a seperate flavor of support issues, and support costs add up fast. Again, this is a situation that would be vastly improved by automatically gathering and submitting data on the machine that is having trouble.
If game companies released the source code to the automatic registration component of their games and made that component a seperate executable or perhaps a dynamically loaded library, would users feel less betrayed and spied-upon?
OK, this is for sure. Quake3 is the testing ground for ALL future Linuxgames, if it fails, most likely, so will linux games. So what if your video card play better in windows? (For example like mine does, TNT2 Ultra). Just buy the Linux version. Let me explain. Carmack said they will release the binaries for other system, so if it takes awhile for linux video to work better than windows, you can just use The Windows Binary (FREE) and the files off the linux CD. Thats what im going to do, Until XFree4 comes out.
So the post advocating a violation of id's license terms and copyright get moderated up, but a post criticizing this idea get moderated down.
Look, I know there is no pretense of fairness or lack of bias on slashdot. Anything MS-related will get slammed -- fine. Anyone claiming a software patent is a jerk -- ok.
But upscoring posts which openly advocate copyright violations is not acceptable. If it's ok to ignore id's license, is it ok for someone else to ignore the GPL and release modified binary-only distributions of the Linux kernel?
Go ahead and "troll" me. My karma can take it. At least I'm not posting anonymously.
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
iD should offer the Windows binary for download for us that want to purchase the Linux version, and/or play Quake 3 arena on multiple systems, or multi-boot. That way we could vote for open source and still play the game under the evil scourge of operating systems on other machines in the house, or if speed is more important sometimes, etc.
I'm using a Celeron 300A @ 450MHz with 128Mb of RAM and a Voodoo3-3000. With the visual quality settings that I like, the game runs acceptably fast under RH 6.1 at 1024x768. It isn't quite as smooth as Unreal Tournament, IMHO, but it's quite good.
Having Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3, Ultima Online, Kingpin, and Unreal Tournament all running under Linux was the primary reason I switched from Win95. I've preordered (and hope to receive) the tin box version of Quake 3 Arena (which contains the Windows version) just to have the tin box. I won't be opening that one at all and will be ordering a Linux version that will actually get played.
Regards,
matt
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
Posted as anonymous coward right above this comment was:
>>>> Another loser attempt to justify stealing. Theft is a crime no matter what lame face you try to put on it. You think you're justified in stealing the game simply because the Linux version will be released later? What a great example you're setting for the Linux community and a great message for manufacturers "give me what I want or I'll steal it". >>>>
This is rediculous. This is from the same group of people who don't read online newspapers when they could buy them because "its immoral".
First, how many of us honestly haven't borrowed a game from a friend to see if we like it? I did this with warcraft1,2 quake1,2 mechwarrior2,3, and mercenaries, half life, and i now own legit copies of all these games.
Seccond, if I borrow my friend's copy of WinQuake3 and burn it, yet in three weeks go out and buy my own copy of LinuxQuake3, what has anyone lost? id has lost nothing - they still got my money, I lost a CD-R, seeing as how I will never use it again, my friend lost a few hours of having his game while I burn a copy.
This isn't saying "give me what I want or i'll steal it", its saying hey, I'm going to improvise until the version I want comes out, because, hey I would rather support linux than Billy G., but until then, I'm going to chill with my friend's copy.
Every one wins in this situation. id has lost nothing, retailers have lost nothing, linux users have to boot in windows (arrgh) for a few hours, but have lost no time when they weren't on the top of the "Latest in gaming software".
Everyone's happy. And your outcry won't make a difference, cause this is what's going to happen anyway. So chill and go with the flow, don't get so uptight.
~Zero
sig?
All distros of Q3A will be completed by Id at the same time, and given over to be duplicated at the same time. However, the distributor is likely to put primary emphasis on the Windows version (since it will sell more regardless). So you expect the Mac and Linux versions to be out up to a week or two after the Windows version hits the shelves. Also, and I believe this is stated in Carmack's .plan, the executables for all 3 versions will be downloadable shortly after XMas. This will enable anyone to buy one copy of Q3A (any version), and play it on Windows, Mac, or Linux. The reason JC is waiting until after XMas is so that people don't just buy whatever version that happens to be available, then download the version they need. If people do this, Mac and Linux users will end up getting screwed in the future, due to the inaccurate statistics. Hell, I predominately play my games on Windows (things that actually matter go to Linux, however), but I still plan on purchasing the Linux version just to show my support (as well as encouraging all of my non-Linux-using friends to do the same.
Simply... you said it yourself...153,893 windows versions were bought...that is what the publishers care about...the retailers just care that some product on their shelf was sold, windows or not. IMHO I don't think that the publishers even care that the user used some 'coupon' to get a linux version of their product...it's still 1 sale...it would be 1 sale reguardless the OS (linux users would buy the windows version knowing that they can get a linux version...carmack is just saying that they don't have to support the evil windows...they can buy it for linux straight up!).
The fact that id is releasing different versions of their game, making it easier for linux users to get ahold of (if you consider retail easier than downloading), just proves what we already know...id rules!
-Red
-Red
what the hell is a 'value engineer'
What many people here don't understand is that it is about more than just how much id makes, or how many people use the linux version.. id will make a buttload of cash no matter what happens. But, the distributors and retail stores need to make some good $$ on the Linux version for them to be interested in carrying future titles.
Unfortunately, with the current state of Linux 3D, I fear that this is a futile effort. Q3 is only viable in Linux with a Voodoo card. I don't think this is a large enough subset of users to make a good showing. Hopefully, when XF86 4.0 is out, Q3 will be viable on most video cards.
On the other hand.. while your throwing your support in for id, throw it in for another linux friendly vendor, 3Dfx.. Pick up a new Voodoo4 or Voodoo5 card along with your Linux version of Quake 3.
I will be waiting for the Linux retail version to run it on my Voodoo3 powered machine.
Ultima Underworld is an RPG. It's something else, you're comparing two completely different game genres. What you don't seem to get right is the fact that nobody cares about te game 'plot', because these games are intended for multiplayer gaming. I've enjoyed playing doom and doom2 over GammeConnection on my favourite BBS, and I always enjoy the improved realism of new versions of quake. Of course it's boring to play Q1,2,3 on single-player. It sucks to go around blowing things up with nothing to think about (even if graphics are really nice).
I guess you never played CTF. And if you did, you lost. I spend hours with my Quake clan's people to define a strategy for our next rival, and it's no child game to stand up before real human experienced opponents on a CTF tournament. For THAT, you need brain cells. Lots of it.
of course that doesn't mean you have to like the game. I just think you haven't tried the best part of it.
Chalito.
"Luck is my middle name," said Rincewind, indistinctly. "Mind you, my first name is Bad." -- Terry Pratchett
I think that the Linux version of Q3 should have a picture of Tux with a rocket launcher. That would be c00l :-)
This post has been encrypted in several of the most advanced ROT-26 algorithms
Once again, id, and John Carmak, are showing how to play in the businnes. I didn't see many peopl epointing out that John played a key role, perhaps the most important role, in making OpenGL a viable platform for gaming. I'm not talking about the technical aspect but he's decision to not use D3D. Once again he's showing how to cast our vote for Linux (and Mac). As he said he would love to have a single SKU but this way of distributing is going to convince the box movers that Linux is a reality.
I like the idea of casting your vote with your money and now that I think about it I see that for once we can vote twice and that's exactly what I'm going to do. I'll buy a box for me and another for a friend.
id has said time and again that they make games that they like to play themselves. If you don't like their games then don't buy them! I think the jump from Wolf3D -> Doom -> Quake -> Q2 -> Q3 is been incredible every time and I love playing their games. Vote with your dollar, I like plotless shoot 'em ups, if you don't then quit whining and just go away and buy some other game.
The only problem with this, is that Win32 gamers might play the game more than linux players on a regular basis. The solution to this, is make a database of all individual IP addresses and their OS chioce. I have one IP address with 7 machines. There are 4 win32, 1 iMac, and 2 Linux boxes, so this might cause problems, unless they log my IP for all three versions there might be problems.
That is only one of many solutions.
Loren.
id has publically said that Q3 is not supposed to be a groundbreaking new game, it is supposed to be the ultimate definitive deathmatch game. They have already said that their next game will be using the Q3 engine and be single player focused.
checkout http://glx.on.openprojects.net/ Q3 works GREAT on my G400. John C. is one of the main devlopers too!
Dear Slashdot patrons,
/.'rs and linux users, we can crush the proverbial skulls of those unwilling to accept linux as a viable solution to develop software.
I'm going to make this quick. I have already written an email to sales@compusa.com explaining that I will NOT be purchasing a Windows version of Quake3Arena, as that I will be waiting for the Linux version. I explained that if my local store did not carry the linux version of Q3A, I would be buying online.
I also explained that I would be buying 2 copies of the software. One to open, play and enjoy. And the second purchase will be to support Id for supporting the linux community.
I encourage everyone to take action. Let's show the retailers of this world how much weight we can carry in purchasing dollars! If we want commercial applications developed for linux, we must show the executives of the world out there that linux IS a viable market share at whatever level, this is the time.
Stop reading this message, open up pine or netscape or whatever mail app you use and write an email to CompUSA, BestBuy, Circuit City, or whoever you would purchase software from locally.
As one person emailing a retailer, I can't make but a dent in their concious thought.
As a community of
Empower yourselves!
-Alex Shows
a.k.a. Glossifah on irc.linux.com #blackbox
While I applaud JC for trying this I think it's unfortunately going to end badly. The current state of 3D acceleration support under Linux only allows Voodoo and G200/G400 owners to play at decent framerates and the Matrox drivers require a lot of technical knowhow to get working at the moment.
I have a Nvidia card and dual boot Windows/Linux, there is no way I would buy the Linux version now and have 4 times worse performance for 6 weeks until I can download the windows version! I'm sure many other people are in the same boat.
If Linux Q3A flops in the sales as I suspect it will, then will Id be available to convince distributors to try it again when the state of 3d support on Linux is much better?
Id should have done this experiment once X Free 86 4.0 is out and stable...
And with good reason.
If id did make the mistake of releasing a hybrid CD the results would skew the sales results distributors are watching in a way disasterous for those advocating the porting of games to Linux.
How? Linux users are by and large more technically savvy than Windows users are on average. While the Windows gamer may not realize (or care) that they could play their copy of Quake 3 under Linux, if Linux users were in fact able to do this, many would impatiently run out and buy the hybrid version labelled Windows, because it was in the store earlier, and then load up the Linux version. Fine for them, but bad for Linux, as their purchase has just inflated the Windows sales results and deflated the Linux sales result. The net result is that that one Linux gamer's purchase has widened the Linux/Windows sales gape by TWO (-1 Linux, +1 Windows). This is not what we want, and id has wisely chosen a way to prevent this. Have a little patience -- it will likely be rewarded in coming months and years as venders and other game manufacturers begin to take Linux more seriously and come out with Linux products, with any luck in a more timely fashion.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
But most people beleive so. Why not win32 on an Alpha 32-bit CPU? Can do with NT!
I was planning on doing that in the first place!... But... why do we need to be told? Did someone port th Windows version? I hope companies begin to see that we are a big audience... I REALLY hope to see Diablo 2 come out for Linux :)
If you think you know what the hell is really going on you're probably full of shit.
If you think you know what the hell is really going on you're probably full of shit.
jdube is who I am.
I'd be happy to wait and buy the Linux version, if I could also get that in the collectors tin box - does anyone know if that will happen? Or will all the Linux CD's come in normal boxes?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That's actually kind of funny I actually my last linux purtchess was on a couple of CDs of Redhat 6.1 and Mandrake (can't remember the version). I my friend am the cheapest man on earth (next to Ebeenezer Scrooge himself) and even I have paid for something that was linux related.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
I bought Civ:CTP off the shelf. I wanted to buy MythII, but could never find it. When Eric's Ultimate Solitaire was ready, I ordered that online because I wanted it. I personally don't even want Quake3 (never really liked deathmatch), but if I see it on the retail shelves I will buy it. I'm interested in furthering the cause of retail games for Linux more than I care about giving Id my dollars. But I won't go chasing it down like I tried to do with those other games (every mall I was in, I stopped at every store and asked for Linux games. Repeat once a week for each store, for many weeks).
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
Supposedly, it was the name of Norse god (in the same group as Thor). I think that's what I remember reading on a website back in 95 or whenever...
The orgional game quake went through some pretty major changes in theme when it was being developed, aztec, Techno (like doom/quake2), and the final Gothic arcitecture.
--
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Yes I agree with you one hundred percent on this one. Companies that engage
In this type of activity are cowards and bowing down to a legacy operating system
Producer. I will not continue to do business your company if you continue in these
Practices.
Mark Towns
They don't want everyone who has NT4, to upgrade
to Win2k, that's why they don't release
DX6-7 for NT. Crappy attitude if you ask me..
had a redudant "don't" there, but you'll probably
understand me anyway.
Seriously, they do. They want to kill it, NT is there babie. They hate that people write games only for 9x that don't work on NT. They tell developers to use NT as there game development environment. The problem with DX is that It dosn't 'mesh' well with the NT system...
--
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Since many people running Linux are well connected, why not make the software availabe for on-line purchase? [Emphasis added.]
.plan, and the "investment time" of the money that waits for the Linux boxed version to come out. In return, the company gets /.'d and the public support of the Linux open source community.
First, many is not the same as all. And since games are often bought as gifts, online only sales would eliminate that chunk of the market looking to buy something for their Linux running grandchild. Around christmas time, this becomes a sizable chunk - one that only stands to grow as Linux continues to enter the mainstream.
Secondly, I don't know about you, but when it comes to games, I'm an impulse buyer. If I have to spend 4 hours downloading some massive file to play a game, even if it's one I've been drooling over, I generally won't bother. If I'm in the store and see a copy on the shelf, I may just pick it up, even if I was only marginally interested in it to begin with.
Third, if non-Windows turns out to be an easier OS to develop games for, (ie: designed from the ground up for networking and/or graphics ability as opposed to tacking on DirectX, or having to license some other companies API's) the software company can realize a reduction in initial development costs. However, this will only happen if the stores will order non-Windows versions - and they'll only do that if they can feel reasonably assured that those versions will sell.
Fourth, with the current Linux hype, this is an excellent way to get some free publicity. Costs the company the time it took Carmack to write up his
Kwil
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
I don't know about unreal, but Q3a has a single player mode, where the computer emulates online players. The code is pretty good, and the bots work well (they'll even hurl insults at you :)
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"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I've only purchased a couple Linux games (Myth II and Civilization). Though the Linux version of Myth II is perfectly playable it does not have 3D support for my card (a Matrox). On my G200/Win95 box it is a very *pretty* game. However, the Windows version has crashed on me and taken down the entire machine. :)
The Linux version allows full screen only with a root login (which I'm generally loath to do). However, its software 3D is better than the Windows software 3D.
I wish someone would port Warcraft II to Linux. I'll buy as many copies as it takes to get my entire network playing (8 machines).
If I steal $10000000 from Bill Gates and give it to the poor, that's good.
If I steal $10000000 from the poor and give it to Bill Gates, that's bad.
Violating software liscenses doesn't mean anything in itself. The fact is, the original post advocated doing *exactly* what the developers want while doing *exactly* what you want. The post suggested waiting *and later buying* the linux box. That's good for Id, good for the community, and good for you. It suggested temporarily using a shared version, because you are later going to buy it. Even software hoarder scum like you should be able to see the difference.
If you violate the GPL, you will burn in hell (or deserve to), because you have hurt millions of people. That's not a good thing. Are you so hung up on the law that you can't see what's right and wrong? What is wrong with society that we let this happen?
-Dave Turner, AC of convinience
So the behavior of these other A.C's must be the best that the "Anti-Linux" group that M.S. put together can do...sit all day and get paid to post as A**hole Linux users, trying to make the community so unappealing that noone would want to join, eh? Makes me laugh.
They will pay attention to dollars. Online sales and in-store sales will work, but not much else.
Eventially with things(software) like this you will go to the store to buy the data/worlds/else/pak files and download the platform specific engine to drive the thing.
penguinicide... when jumping out a window just won't do.
And what gives you that idea?
The majority of Warez DuDes are windows users..
I bought redhat 4.0, 5.1, and may buy 6.1 also..
I also bought quake2 for linux, Civ_CTP, and Myth2.
I also bought some backup software..
If software is good enough, I will buy it.
Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
is running 90 MHz, with a 500Mhz system bus, it's 128bit graphics pipeline has features (such as full screen anti-aliesng) that are only now showing up in 3d cards. It's an impressive peice of tech, and its also only running at 512x384 res, not to hard to pull off
Dispite this, games like quake and UT really do take advantage of newer hardware. Things like multi-pass rendering etc really improve the game.
The game is also somewhat playable on my p200mmx, with a riva128 graphics card.
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"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
The main problem with shipping a hybrid CD with separate boxes for Linux is that if they sell out of the Linux copies, people will just buy the Windows or Mac versions instead of demanding that the store stock more Linux copies.
If Carmack wants to encourage retail stores to carry more Linux games. The best way to do that is to sell Linux versions as an entirely separate product so that all of us that want Linux versions will go rough up store managers when they don't carry or don't stock enough of the games we want.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
:P woops...
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"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Uh. Wheres the IRIX version to take advantage of my Reality Engine? I bet all the kids with the Ebay o2's and solid impact Indigio^2s wouldn't mind a boxed version of quake for their SGIs too. - anon coward.
Compared to the windows version that is. My experience with any game in Linux has been that it either doesn't work fully or doesn't work as well. Q3 would not run at as high of resolutions on my 3dfx card, the latest binary for glquake is extremely old and features like transparent water on vissed maps don't work.
Please mark this man up. He has something very important to say IMO. Wish I had moderator points right now...
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
it's pretty unfortunate that people immediately flip out over the notion of a piece of software that you buy connecting over the Internet to a machine run by the people that put the software out in order to transfer a little bit of information about the configuration of the software and the machine it's running on. it sure would be great if JC could simply insert a couple lines of code into the linux and windows bins of q3 that told iD exactly how many of each copy of the software were running on machines connected to the internet.
I suppose the reason noone likes this is because the code that does the sending-of-information could send ANY info (including your private files) to iD since it would be closed source.
but what if it wasnt? what if there was a little utility that ran as part of the installation process - something that ran automatically and just gave you a little heads up when it executed (I am now sending your choice of operating systems, your total amount of RAM and your video card type to such and such an IP)...
and then just include the couple hundred lines of source on the CD too. dont even open source it if you dont want to - just provide the source so everyone whos so paranoid can verify that its doing what it says its doing.
this would take approximately 5 minutes to code and a little while to integrate into the install process. iD, other software houses - I know someone at these companies reads slashdot - this would be a good idea.
is there a real 2 bit processor? Can one construct such a device?
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
The last 8 bits are known as the 'alpha channel' you can use it to store anything you want, such as transperancy, or other information.
32bit mode is also faster, beacuse the CPU only needs to make one doubleword read/write to manipulate pixles, using 32bits just makes the programing smoother.
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"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
The point of his msg, has little to do with Id's policy or what they're going to do. Alot of ppl are whining about why they don't distribute a hybrid CD, or why they can't just use some other method for determining the number of linux version that have been sold. The people that need to be influenced are the retailers, and OTHER game publishers. The publishers need to be aware that there is a market for Linux games/software, and the retailers need to be aware of the fact that by selling Linux software their number of units sold will increase. They don't care about hybrid CD's or if there is 50 CD's in the case.. all they are concerned with is.. there cost, and there markup. Also Hybrid CD's are only good if you don't have anywhere near a full CD of data for one system alone. Just my $0.02....
--Hired Net Grunt
and it's 256 shades, not 254
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"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
That's why you are not Carmack. Ok, why don't you instead of spatting crap code something worth playing (by this I mean that more than 1Million people will play it) that works on everybodie's hardware? Why don't you make a Quake III Arena clone that runs on lousy Pentium 166? Then you would have the right to say something! Otherwise shut up and let the real coders do their work!
First of all...
It dosn't really matter how messages are passed in star trek, beacuse its not real. We havn't reached the stars yet, were all here on earth, where a beam of light can go around the world in 60ms. I can't tell you how comunications will work in the far future (or even if the human race will ever leave the planet). And certanly, the people who wrote 'star trek' can't ether.
And secondly, they could just play in the ship...
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"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Check out the latest news posting on the q3arena site about linux quake3... not a pretty sight.
Is this how we want linux gamers to be portrayed?
If I were very paranoid id say this was sent by someone from microsoft or similar but I dont want to be making excuses for this type of thing.
I believe that when John Carmack mentions that many companies will be noting the Linux sales figures, that it doesn't just mean other game companies. Hardware companies like video card makers will also be watching closely.
Hopefully this will push them to support Linux or put more effort in improving and optimizing their Linux drivers. So in the end, even non-gamers should benefit.
It is very amazing that id Software is willing to take initiative to attempt to prove the viability of non-MS platforms.
Distributors and producers need to see the figures backed up by sales, period.
The number of Linux and Mac clients being reported by online servers is most likely a valid statistic, but that's not how distributors and producers work. They have to see that people are making a clear decision to buy the Linux or Mac version INSTEAD of the Windows version, and not simply using it because it happened to be included in the same box.
Its easy. Most linux users have a second windows machine so they are the only ones who would exercise 'concious choice'. Almost all windows users dont have a linux machine. As a result: release the linux version first and all the linux users will buy the linux version and then release the windows version afterwards and the remaining windows users will buy up their copies. and then you will have a true estimation of the windows/linux user ratio. if they dont release it this way, then its obvious that the windows version will be preferred and the user data will be wrong. future linux games should not be condemned because of a 'set of incorrect data'!!!!
-- Betting on the survival of the media industry is a serious risk. I advise investing elsewhere.
I think there is one thing that most of you are missing. it really doesn't *matter* what version you purchase from the shop. All that matters to the companies are preorders or orders made from major ditributers [like Ingram, etc.] You can buy all the Linux/Mac versions you want from CompUSA, but those sales figures won't mean anything if Ingram buys 20:3:2 Win/Mac/Linux.
This means that id [or other company], before you even whip out the gold card has sold 20 copies of the windows version, 3 cpoies of the mac version and 2 copies of the Linux version.
How to solve this issue: [??]
Well, it's kinda chicken or the egg. You have to get companies to produce/distribute multiplatform versions at the same time. If a platform version exists before another and it is brought to market, obviously that platform will have a leg up on the other versons.
Ship hybred CDs. This of course leaves the stores to do all sorts of oddball things like charge more for the mac/linux version, count all sales as windows, etc. This will however solve the Ingram problem.
Offer DLable package. This way, you know what you are getting via logfiles, unfort, marketers/droids/etc. don't care about logfiles, they care about pretty pictures and $$$
This doesn't take into account all the other sundry issues, but it does give some insight on how to change things. In a way, it's kinda like voting for a US Pres. We don't *actually* vote for him, an electoral college does. Just like our purchases don't mean anything as far as sales figures goes, only the orders from the big distros [like Ingram, [not RH/slack/debian silly]]
Blocklevel: Practical Information Architecture
I've always found games are about £10 cheaper ordering them on the internet, and usually arive the day after you order them.
It's called humor, ronfar. See the little smiley face?
Oh, and nothing is more tiresome on slashdot than posts telling the moderators to moderate something up or down. Moderators are advised to remove the stick from your ____
~17fps I get with q2 under linux. But under windows I get ~50. This is with an old dirty tnt. I haven't tried it in a while.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Number 1, get rid of that awful engine that gives people headaches and nausea.
And use what? one that looks like shit? sit farther from the monitor, or don't play the game, idiot
FIRST POSTERS AROUND THE WORLD: I HAVE A REQUEST.
REGISTER YOUR OWN ACCOUNT AND POST NORMALLY.
Karma is useless.
Anonymous Cowards suck.
-cow
Also, that way when you're moderated down, it's only 0.
So not only do the dumb moderators lose points, but they aren't very effective (Many people keep their threshold at 0).
Force them to use points on more productive things and force the little girls who can't handle a "FIRST POST" to have to read them, anyway. It won't kill them and it'll teach them more about the real world's difficulties on their virgin ears and eyes.
-cow
First off, the arguments were not ridiculous given what you posted. If meant something else, then perhaps in the future you will be more cautious of what you write. Perhaps you should go back and read them from and objective point-of-view.
Second, to take one of your suggestions: they burn a copy and immediately order the Linux version. Then, the order arrives they suddenly have two copies, but only one purchased license. (just a little flaw). The advocation of any kind of theft is deplorable in my eyes, even if you disagree with the patent and copyright laws. Avenues exist to combat them, and even if they are difficult avenues to pursue, I can guarantee you that you will not win by breaking the laws. Now, if you want id to release a time-delayed crippleware then you have an entirely valid argument. But anything dealing with the breaking of either the letter or the intent of the law is something that, as an expectant buyer of the Linux copy, I do not want to associate myself. I hope you will realize this, but if you do not, then I hope you will contain your excitement in such matters and not encourage others.
-Grandpa_Spaz
Seriously how many games can you consider groundbreaking? As a point I made in an ealier post, if you look at the big picture, innovation does not occur in leaps and bounds. Doom was a little better than Wolf3d, Quake a little better than Doom, Q2 a little better than Quake, and q3arena a little better than q2. Does this make any of them less innovative than that which came before it? No.
As for your complaint that nothing changes, exactly how many genres do you think exist in the PC gaming world? Let's see...we have First Person Shooters, Third Person Shooters, Real Time Strategy, Turn Based Strategy, and Role Playing. Does something that fits into one of these categories cease to be innovative? If so, please name one or two "innovative" games that don't fit into these 5 genres.
And concering your ooooohhhh, multiple level dungeons--big whoop: Get with it. That's a huge deal. Maybe you live in a 2d world and find wolfenstein perfectly representative of your life, but it's a huge deal as for as realism and programming complexity goes to add full 3d.
Jeremy
Looking for a Python IRC bot?
I wish someone would port Warcraft II to Linux.
Now, I've not tried it, but... Someone wrote a clone of Warcraft II for Linux. You need to own the original game for the graphics/sounds/maps/etc, but the engine is free.
More info at the following url:
http://happypenguin.org/show?CLONE
They plan to support more games in the future, such as Starcraft.
Hope that helps.
This sig is false.
It's not entirely true that Fugazi "never" charges more than $5 a show. I saw them in Tokyo once and the tickets were significantly more than that. Apparently it was forced on them by the venue. They apologized mid-way through the show for not being able to charge the usual $5.
> It's really a shame that NT (largely neglected by the game industry)
I work as a game developer, and NT isn't largely neglected for development. Allmost all of my peers use NT.
Quake, Half Life, Diablo, Age of Empires, etc, all work under NT. Granted more games work under 95, but at least NT hasn't been completely ignored.
Why do most games NOT work under NT?
Part of the problem is that Direct3D is not hardware accelerated under NT, and DirectInput is, um, lagged, under NT. (The above games work, because they use, a) OpenGL, b) DirectDraw, c) waveout, d) or some combination of the Win32 API that works under NT.
The biggest problem is Microsoft. Even when people demonstrated that gaming under NT was important, ala by someone releasing the DirectX 5 hack for NT 4, MS _refused_ to even consider releasing anything over DX3 for NT. Allthough they did manage to sneak in DirectPlay6 with NT Service Pack 4 without telling anyone.
Microsoft is too busy milking their Win9X cash cow, ie. Windows 96 (aka Win95 OSR), Windows 98, Win 99 (aka Win98 SE.) They are finaly getting the picture, by including DX7 with NT5, er, Win2000. Yeah gaming options under NT suck, but petition your favorite game developer to please consider making their game work under NT4 and NT5.
For more info on gaming under NT, check out:
http://ntgamepalace.3dfiles.com/
Cheers
http://www.lokigames.com/press/archive.php3?101119 99
Intel
Alpha
MIPS
PPC
And more importantly, don't complain about it. You might not think it's not worth buying. THEN DON'T. I just don't understand why you need to bring this up in the first place. Everyone knows it's just a prettier DM version of Q2 with a bunch of new maps. That's enough for a LOT of people.
I can just see 4 people trying to deathmatch on any console, the Playstation, the rapidly dying Dreamcast, or the Atari Ja--oh wait, I mean the N64...sorry, that 3rd gaming system that nobody pays attention to is just so hard to remember. Sure you've got a 30 inch TV, it's probably about 28 in. viewable, so you're going to play on like a 5x7 screen...while sitting on your couch...yeah...I see that being veritable iotas of fun.
The hardware could probably handle a stripped down version. Down give me this crap about how the hardware can't handle it. You people don't remember the days of the original NES, and how these ingenious sound programmers got those POS chips to do all kinds of great music. It's just the logistics of it all. Quake III is best played with both hands on different input devices. Any game console out there relies on the singular input device, namely, the controller (or joypad, joystick, etc...) In order for it work effectively, you'd not only need a console mouse, but a meypad type thing, as well. (You want to try using on hand to mash the left "button" on your Dreamcast controller without it flipping over, be my guest. I'll send an appropriate taunt over after I'm through beating you 20 to -5.)
You just don't want to be in the heat of battle trying to remember which of the stupid shoulder buttons moves which direction.
In response to it "looking better" on the TV, the TV resolution is FAR lower than any monitor. It will always look better on a monitor. Your TV also has "free" anti-aliasing. If you ever want to see how "detail challenged" your TV set is, play any video game that has a stop light, or a any sort of red light in it. Check out how many adjacent pixels it bleeds into. This is invariably why any console to PC port ends up looking really bad...it looks just fine on a TV, a less forgiving PC monitor is something different entirely. Granted, the Dreamcast comes with better hardware, and you can even get an S-Video/VGA output cables for your Dreamcast, but it can't beat a PC's number crunching ability. If it could, it'd be a shame to have that powerful a machine just to play video games...
Which is why I have a word processor installed on my PC...
-Alkaiser
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"Just can't stand this bobbin' and pretendin'/ Listnin' to some bullethead and the madness that he's sayin'."
Your Racist Friend, by They Might Be Giants.
Netjak.com independent reviews of domestic & import video ga
I'm pleased with the performance. Even though the NVIDIA SVGA server only supports hardware acceleration with 16 bpp right now, q3test looks good and is very playable at 800x600.
Now I haven't seen the Windows version at all, let alone with a similar setup, and I haven't cared enough to measure framerates, but the only problems I've had with the demo are my rather poor ping times and my mediocre fragging abilities. (But I'm still better than Hemos.)
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QDMerge 0.4!
how to invest, a novice's guide
I presume then, that you always abide by speed limits and declare your mail order purchases so that you can pay sales tax on them. Everyone has broken the letter of the law, probably quite often, and absolutely nobody is hurt by doing what the original poster suggested.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
Actually you are limited to slightly above 16 bit color or 65536 colors. The higher number of colors is only noticeable on low resolution and that of course includes color printing.
The Rage128 chips on Mac were only clocked to 75MHz when the PC versions are clocked 15-30MHz higher by default. One must wonder if that's ATI's way of saying 'MacOS sucks, so you don't deserve a faster video card'. :)
Excellent idea.
However, I've personally tired of trying to give companies a "clue". Unless I feel like I've already established a relationship with a company, I'll rarely contact them.
Instead, I'll just vote with my dollar. If I can get Quake 3 online before I can get it retail, I'll buy it online. I'll leave it to the retail stores to figure out on their own why they lost my sale. Either they will get a clue, or be outcompeted by the company that does get it.
Tim
hey, i don't mean no respect but damn, what the "f**k" is the big deal? If retailers want to carry only Win version of Quake3, let them. Retailers have to carry what "average-joe" will buy which is Win's proudcts. Linux is not main stream yet. Hopefully, one day it will but to threaten a retailer about this? This just too much. Come on, people, what the f**k the big deal?
I'm about to buy a new machine and of course I'd like to be ready to run Q3 when it's available. What should I do video wise? Is it still only 3dfx that's supported on Linux? If so, do they make a decent 2d board too (and what is it)?
I put a 12 meg Voodoo 2 in the 400 mhz PII in our ACM office, and there is almost no difference in performace between Windows and Linux in both Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament.
I haven't seen a Voodoo 3 under Linux, but 3dfx apparantly has an accelerated X server for it.
The only other think that I think Id could and should do is use its marketing clout to get distributors and retailers to treat the Linux version fairly. They should release the Linux version FIRST, and the, when they see it on the shelves, only THEN release the Windows version. they should go to distributors and say "We have the hottest new game in a long time. We're Id. If you want it, then treat Linux fairly."
That's unrealistic. Carmack states the masters for all three platforms will be sent off at the same time. The reason you'll see the Windows version on shelves first is because the retailers and everyone else in that food chain are going to bend over backwards to get shrinkwrapped Windows boxes on their shelves. It's not that they're treating Linux/Mac unfairly -- that's not the case, it's simply that they're going out of their way for Windows.
Id have demonstrated they're going to keep developing cross platform no matter what sales figures come in. But at the end of the day, even Id have to pay employee wages. Id has played a huge part in the movement in getting game developers to look seriously at the Linux platform, but you can't expect one company to fight the entire war for you.
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Rare Window - free your photos
THIS IS NOT PIRACY! id gets EXACTLY the same amount of money wether you buy the Windows disk and download the Linux binaries or if you buy the boxed Linux version! For gods sakes, they're even going to release the executables after Christmas!
The only reason to hold out is to show distributors and retailers that consumers will buy games for alternative platforms. And as any Mac user will tell you, trying to impress retailers is by and large a futile guesture. I bought the Mac versions of games from Best Buy for over two years, but that didn't stop them from replacing all the Mac software with Barbie merchandise. The Linux boxes probably wont even make it that far.
Forget distributors and retailers. Buy the Linux or Mac version to impress the right group of people, the devlopers.
Didn't Quake 2 servers and clients have a backdoor?
at least for people playing across the net. make q3a send a small packet to a master server, and you're done. (it would be optional, though)
-disq
Don't worry...having played both TESTs ur not missing anything...ID is BEHIND the times... Unreal Tourney ROCKS....Q3 has bugs and is klunky compared, the bots are STOOOOOPID and this just comes in as another FPS, a johnny come lately...
That old IBM mainframe you seem to be familiar with now costs $1000, and at that price it is almost disposable.
I'm not sure if it was something I was doing wrong but it was so bad that I couldn't even play. I downloaded the latest 3dfx drivers that were released on the 15th but didn't see any increase in performance. I'm hoping it's just something wrong on my end. Otherwise, Id / 3dfx / Linux users have a long road ahead of them.
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
What the hell?? Every day I come here, people are raging about free software "If it isn't free it must suck". So why are you praising John C. and not screaming at him to provide it for free?
Just curious.
(Caution: this post will be moderated down)
You sir, are an idiot. Unreal Tournament sucks. The graphics look like shit, the game play is completely passe and the music sucks. If I wanted to play a bad re-hash of Quake 2 (which also sucked), I'd just play Quake 2. At least Quake 3 looks like it brings back the devilish aspects that were missing from Q2. I want to see more demons and human remains hanging on walls and sticks. Q1 ruled in that way and is still the best of the three when you take the whole H.P. Lovecraft-ish thing into account. Yes. You sir are a complete bufoon!
a better thing would be to let the linux version sell out.
it's a bummer not to make the sell, but the empty shelf will burn a bigger image into the corporate mind.
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Lates
What? Carmack has said that he WILL release all binaries (and patches) after the Linux and Mac retail boxes have been delivered. To ID, they don't care about the binaries - they care about the levels (WAD, whatever format they use now...). If you have that (legally), then ID will offer you all binaries that you can handle. They've gotten your money - they don't want to charge you double for using different platforms (which is my gripe with Loki - essentially the same game on Windows but you must buy a different box for Linux - stupid, stupid, stupid).
Carmack is just doing this so that if there is a market for Linux or Mac games, the retailers realize this. IMHO, this is a great move on his part.
Later,
Justin
Mu. P.S. The address you see is real. =)
I hope he doesn't live in georgia
missionary sex is the only thing legal there and the other states where 'sodomy' is a crime.
If the government outlaws hummers, then I'll forever be an outlaw
I downloaded the new demo (yes on Win32...)
and while I couldn't help but thinking 'DAMN this is so cool...' while checking out the graphics, the mechanics, etc. etc....
At the end I'm sitting there going, "this kinda sucks" as I'm doing nothing but running around in circles looking for a weapon or armor or the bot/player I'm running from/towards.
I can see this being fun with 2+ people on 2+ PC's in the same room hurling insults audibly back and forth, etc. etc.
But, DAMMIT, I was hoping the bots would exhibit a little more AI than just running and bouncing about at a faster pace than a human can react to. (at least *this* human.)
I'll wait for the single player version, with any kind of plot, dozens of sweeping, multi-planed, curved-surfaces, fog-covered levels....and lots of ugly nasty beasties hiding behind the next door.
Speaking as one who burned out violently on the multi-player "experience" from spending waaaaay to many hours in front of a dumb terminal playing MUDs about 8 years ago.....
Blech. Signatures.
Still selling well on Neo Geo Pocket...
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Well, I'm not ready to run XFree under Linux even yet (I like to use text console), I can run Q1 with SVGAlib nicely (even it does not support 3D features) and it works just nice with my RivaTNT.
Only reason I have Windows is games, if Linux would have more quality games I would not use windows for nothing!
FYI, Quake2 was working just fine from same CD in Windows and Linux systems (of course I had to download Linux binaries first).
I bought my Quake 2 at very same day when they released Linux binaries (after I saw those binaries I run to store to buy that CD).
If there is no way to use same Q3 CD with Linux and Windows, I think I must reconsider if I even like to see Q3 then (or only with Windows).
I agree with the point about users with state-of-the-art machines deserving of extra performance for their spending effort. I also agree that games should be as backwards-compatible as possible, for those without the cash to buy a P3/Athlon/TNT Ultra/Geforce box to get at least a similar experience. However, I don't agree that the power of your machine should figure in your enjoyment of a game. A well-designed game should engender the same feeling and depth no matter what you play it on. (forgive the nostalgia, but...) Didn't Amiga games have a ton of atmosphere, and generally gave the same feeling of depth whether you played on a lowest-common-denominator A500 with 1MB, or a souped-up-to-the-nines A4000? Obviously the gulf in hardware is very different, but the point was is was the game's DESIGN that shone through, and the amount of thought and effort that went into them. A crap game with a fancy gfx engine tagged on is still a crap game, surely?! It's just a shame that corporate ethos (i.e. sales of the game were great, so let's just re-release it with new graphics engine, that way the consumer will think it's a new product worth having!) exerts such a stranglehold on an industry that was once synonymous with original thought and hard work. Nowadays, it seems only the latter exists. OK, that's it, but finally thanx to John C, for at least trying to keep the original spirit alive.
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"I'm not dumb, I'm just intellectually challenged."
- "How do we do it? Volume!" - The Bursar of Unseen University.
it sure would be great if JC could simply insert a couple lines of code into the linux and windows bins of q3 that told iD exactly how many of each copy of the software were running on machine(...) and then just include the couple hundred lines of source on the CD too. dont even open source it if you dont want to - just provide the source so everyone whos so paranoid can verify that its doing what it says its doing.
The problem with that is as soon as it hit the street, someone would take that counter code, and put it in a script that hit the server every few seconds pretending to be a different machine.
There would be no way to insure that the numbers are accurate. You'd soon be able to download the "Q3A Counter Booster" from Freshmeat, and fake id (no pun intended) packets would be flowing in from all over the internet.
No, the only way to accurately measure the market is to count it at the point each person forks over the money for the game. And isn't that what they care about? How many people paid for it, not how many are running it?
Some guy named Chris
W - G - A - F!!!
So either you are wrong about Linux not being mainstream enough, or it won't be threatening to anyone.
Q3A is not just an online only game, you can play against the bots without ever even connecting to the net. I myself run a Q3A server at work and we play on the LAN, not on the Internet so these kinds of numbers would never get reported.
I have indicated to Activision Australia my intent to pre-order a large quantity of Q3A for Linux for our store.. The people there will be forwarding my request directly to the sales manager and channel sales director of Activision. I hope this is going to send the message that we want the Linux version NOW, not later. I did express my concern that we could lose sales if they did not ship the product simultaniously. Heres hoping..
The Incredible Machine and Lemmings, while they probably fit into the same category, don't fit any of your five.
That "Cosmopolitan Makeover" software doesn't fit any of your five. (I realize I'm going out on a limb by implying that it is "innovative", but I think it is, from a making-it-available-to-the-public perspective
I'm sure I could think of others, but I think the extreme homogeneity of your five categories indicate a lack of imagination on your part that I don't feel like correcting.
but it's a huge deal as for as realism and programming complexity goes to add full 3d.
Again, "programming complexity" is beside the point. If all it takes for you to buy a game is that it is hard to program, I've got a new game coming out you might like to buy. It's called "Prime Factorization"--you type in a 100-digit number and it will tell you if the number is prime or not.
As for realism: Yeah, realism sure seems like a requirement for the Wolf3D Clone Industry. Demons? Hand-launched guided missles? Magic potions?
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Saw some news at PlanetUnreal regarding this. The game's publisher (not Epic who made the game) decided they didn't want to support a Linux version and demanded that the Linux version not be on the CDs. We'll have to download the Linux binaries when the game comes out.
Please don't blame Epic for this. They're already doing some good for the Linux community. Perhaps they could find a way to get a different publisher for the Linux verion. Then we could just buy those and screw the idiots who didn't want our money.
As seen on BluesNews : Contrary to expectations, the Linux Unreal Tournament executable will not be included in the retail Unreal Tournament box, but will rather be made available for download when the game is available for purchase:
Earlier I said that Linux UT would be available out of the box. GT decided that they didn't want to support a Linux version and didn't want it in the box. We decided not to argue the issue, so the Linux UT libraries and executables will not be available in the box.
So if you thought about buying Unreal Tournament, think again, it might be better to buy another copy of Quake3Arena instead just to show your interest in Linux...
-- Eavy (: Linux Is Not UniX
The people who say "if it's not free it sucks" are the minority and they are very dumb. Remember, there are more windows/mac users on slashdot then there are GNU and *BSD people.
:)) And I usually buy them. Games are expensive to make. You probably can't score the #1 first person shooter working with your free time, it'd take about a decade before the game is playable. Commericial software is great, Free Software is great, Open Free Software is the best, but hey, life ain't perfect.
As a Linux user, I think commericial software is great. CompUSA, and best buy (atleast where I live) stock those few linux games I play (Loki's stuff