Slashdot Mirror
Linux Unreal Tournament Files Released
[Hi, I just posted this info in the Slashdot forum elaborating on why we didn't ship the Linux executables in the Unreal Tournament box.]
The UT Linux executables will be available for download rather than being included in the box.
We don't like this either. We REALLY, REALLY wanted the Linux executables to be on the CD, we reserved space for it, and actually had it there in the directory structure during beta.
GT asked us yank it, because they were worried about tech support issues: that thousands of Linux users would have questions about installation that GT reps (who are only familiar with Windows and consoles) wouldn't be able to answer.
We obliged with their request, because GT is responsible for performing (and paying for) UT tech support, and it didn't seem fair to put the burden on them.
Here is part of a message I sent to a GT exec, advocating putting Linux on the UT CD-Rom:
---begin---
Why Linux on the Unreal Tournament box is a very good move:
First, Red Hat Linux is selling very well in retail, and there's a good chance that by word of mouth, Linux users will pick up Unreal Tournament with their Linux purchase or afterwards. I'd be very surprised if we didn't gain over 3% more sales from Linux users. Now if UT sells a million units (Tim's wild guess), that's 30,000 additional units. If we make it *very* clear that the Linux version is unsupported (no tech support calls), then surely this is a profitable move.
Second, while Linux users are far outnumbered by Windows users, the statistics don't tell the whole story. Linux users are the hardest of the hardcore. They're among the movers and shakers who are serious deathmatchers (Quake 2 and Quake 3 are available for Linux); they run major community web sites; they run servers on T1 and T3 connections. These people have far more influence on gaming than their numbers indicate.
Third, Linux is gaining an incredible amount of momentum, and sticking the Linux penguin logo on the UT box would further the Unreal franchise's position as a leading-edge product that's not afraid to push into new territories. This has always been our hallmark -- Epic shipped the first-ever DirectX game (Fire Fight, published by Electronic Arts); now the Unreal Tournament demo is the first DirectX7 release; and now we have the chance to be the first game to ship simultaneous with Windows and Linux versions in the same box.
---end---
GT considered all of this and understood the issues, but still had overriding concerns about the cost.
I can't say I blame them; I sure wouldn't want to be responsible for supporting users with 10 different versions each of 10 different Linux distributions, each with a completely different set of video drivers, x-windows shells, permissions, and possibly even recompiled kernels. Linux's approach kicks ass on the Internet with its open, user-driven community. But it doesn't seem too compatible with the mass-market distribution model, where companies pay rooms full of people to answer phones and help customers, and where one tech support call wipes out all the profit from a box sold.
Emailing companies like GT *politely* to show your support for the Linux platform is a great idea. Just keep in mind that, to publishers, the Linux thing isn't simply a popularity contest; supporting Linux needs to make sense financially, and there are some serious issues with support and compatibility they need to consider.
Tim Sweeney
Epic Games
http://unreal.epicgames.com/
As cool as it is on Windows, it will be better on my home machine. Gonna get them DL'ed as I walk in the door.
it is better to light a flame thrower than curse the darkness. -Terry Pratchett Men at Arms
So.. Why didn't they try for BeOS support? They said they would do it if they had enough BeOS user feedback. It made all the BeOS news sites. I can't imagine they didn't get any feedback. There's a lot of us out here.
But instead they just didn't do it in favor of a Linux release. If anything GT would probably have been more open to the idea of BeOS since all they had to support was one distribution, etc, etc, etc. In fact even less variations and problems than Windows would run into.
So why not try for BeOS? Why hasn't Epic released a BeOS version like this Linux one? What the hell is wrong with BeOS, anyway? Everyone wants to ignore it in favor of the popular Linux. Come on.. This is one thing BeOS has over Linux--it's proprietry. Many people seem to think that's a fault. When it comes to the rest of the software world, being closed is the next best thing to Windows. So why doesn't anyone want to support it?
If GT Interactive didn't want to play, then perhaps it's time to find a new distributor.
It's not only the consumers who get to vote with their feet - but the producers as well.
I didn't buy quake2 until it was in a box for Linux. What makes you think that I'm going to buy your product now.
If I buy your windows product and then download the linux bins, then I'm supporting GT's linux ignorance. No thanks.
Fileplanet, unreal.epicgames.com and Slashdot are being a little misleading.
Perhaps these articles should specify that only Linux/i386 binaries have been released. Remember, when you just say "Linux" you are implying more than just Intel.
They could sell a product with a liscensing agreement that says it might not work, if it doesn't work its not their fault, and if it eats all your data and starts a global thermonuclear war, thats not their fault either
Oh wait, thats EULA!
Seriously though, it would be nice if they could toss the linux exes on the cd, and a penguin logo on the box and a pamphlet in the box that says
ATTENTION: WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE LINUX VERSION, SO DON'T CALL US ABOUT IT.
Need a Catering Connection
The largest market in terms of raw eyeballs is Windows - so you gotta support that.
The largest market in terms of growth is Linux. It makes sense to support that.
BeOS is not large in terms of existing eyeballs, nor is it likely to grow much. Especially as once people convert to Linux, they tend to stay converted.
One could make an argument that BeOS is merely a rest stop on the way to Linux.
Hell, even the Mac guys - who vastly outnumber the BeOS guys - are having trouble getting stuff ported, even when the iMac sold like hotcakes. Who in their right mind would port to an even smaller niche than that?
I feel kinda bad for BeOS folks. They get to experience all the frustrations owning an Amiga once caused, without ever getting to experience the heyday the Amiga once had, circa '89.
Bottom line - BeOS is an evolutionary dead end rapidly running out of habitat.
The Linux-specific parts of Unreal Tournament will be open sourced. (Credit to Blue's News where I saw this - I thought it would be relevant here.)
.plan:
From Brandon "GreenMarine" Reinhart's
I have permission from Tim to open source certain parts of the engine for the purposes of improving Linux support. What I would like to do is make available the code I have written for Glide, Mesa, input, and audio. I would appreciate Linux programmers taking the time to submit improvements to me at brandon@epicgames.com. I will look into putting up a webpage for this and perhaps a discussion forum. Please email me your input or ideas.
I'm leaving to go home for Thanksgiving tomorrow, so I may not be able to start on this until I get back on Friday. Right now I'm working on the Mesa renderer, because I would like to release that soon, if possible.
The code that I open source will not allow you to really dig very deep into the engine, but it will let you do a lot of stuff to the renderer and X windows interface.
Since my time is split between non-Linux related projects, the Linux port could no doubt be improved if it gets some attention from experienced Linux programmers.
This is excellent - it might also help other people porting games to Linux. An obvious question is, what open source license? The released code will have to be linked against the proprietary game engine. So I guess the GPL wouldn't work, right?
Azog
Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
"HTML needs a rant tag" - Alan Cox
Brandon Reinhart claims portions of the Linix UT source will be released:
I have permission from Tim to open source certain parts of the engine for the purposes of improving Linux support. What I would like to do is make available the code I have written for Glide, Mesa, input, and audio. I would appreciate Linux programmers taking the time to submit improvements to me at brandon@epicgames.com. I will look into putting up a webpage for this and perhaps a discussion forum. Please email me your input or ideas.
I'm leaving to go home for Thanksgiving tomorrow, so I may not be able to start on this until I get back on Friday. Right now I'm working on the Mesa renderer, because I would like to release that soon, if possible.
The code that I open source will not allow you to really dig very deep into the engine, but it will let you do a lot of stuff to the renderer and X windows interface.
Since my time is split between non-Linux related projects, the Linux port could no doubt be improved if it gets some attention from experienced Linux programmers.
Brandon Reinhart claims portions of the Linux UT source will be released:
I have permission from Tim to open source certain parts of the engine for the purposes of improving Linux support. What I would like to do is make available the code I have written for Glide, Mesa, input, and audio. I would appreciate Linux programmers taking the time to submit improvements to me at brandon@epicgames.com. I will look into putting up a webpage for this and perhaps a discussion forum. Please email me your input or ideas.
I'm leaving to go home for Thanksgiving tomorrow, so I may not be able to start on this until I get back on Friday. Right now I'm working on the Mesa renderer, because I would like to release that soon, if possible.
The code that I open source will not allow you to really dig very deep into the engine, but it will let you do a lot of stuff to the renderer and X windows interface.
Since my time is split between non-Linux related projects, the Linux port could no doubt be improved if it gets some attention from experienced Linux programmers.
Although i am disappointed in GT's failure to put the linux executables in the box, they do have a point...as it stands now, (although this will most likely change soon), it *can be* somewhat tricky for the novice user to get things up and running properly on a linux box, and altho the proposed warning about no tech support for the linux version is a good idea, people are generally bad at reading warnings, etc, and the GT tech support would prob still be hit with a flood of tech support calls...just my opinion tho
-- Went home. Had to feed the kids.
I love seeing more games come out for linux. Right now I use windows for that reason alone. I would much rather use something else, however I can do everything I want internet related on windows, Is there a complete linux browser out there? while I dont know of one I am shure there are word processors and other such apps for linux, but the main reason I stick with windows is to play various games. Fortunately, if this trend continues I will finally have reason enough to junk gates's crap and run something better. And so will many others.
Pound for pound, the amoeba is the most vicious animal on earth.
when will GT ship UT in Europe? is there a possibility that they sell the european version with linux binaries? that'd be cool.
alex
Ok be a stubborn dumbass and miss out on a really fun game. I like UT a lot better than Q3. Why such hostility towards a company that even ported the game to linux for you? How many commercial linux games are there? 2 or 3 at most. I thought you wanted to see more linux games? You are certainly not helping with that attitiude.
GT, seeing there is a market, albiet, small, would be encouraged to release more linux games. A la Loki.
If Loki can survive on Linux games, then other companies can as well. All the software houses moving into Linux software, being applications or games, will likely see profitability while Linux is growing fast. This is the time to establish yourself in a linux market, not two years down the road when its common practice.
Also, such companies will gain respect (if they release good software, not duff), as Loki have found. Respect from consumers means > sales > money.
It does need companies to take a risk, if the risk pays off, companies will do well. Linux has been growing for too long (year plus) for interest to suddenly die away. If linux was a fad, Linux would have faded away by now.
Also, people will see more Linux games on the shelves, and will see linux as a mainstream OS where you can do wordprocessing etc, and also, play games.. The linux image of geeks, and nerds will disappear, which will encourage "non-techies" to try linux out.
We need to remember that Linux is still a New Thing(tm) to a lot of management people, and if the first few companies that experiment with providing a Linux version get a lot of angry emails from people demanding a box with a penguin on it (Or any more rallying cries of "You've lost yourself another sale", no offense), it certainly won't help to encourage other people to port to Linux.
It's a good game (a lot prettier than Q3, imho, and a hell of a lot easier to get running on a Voodoo 3) and if you want it, and want to support game companies who release Linux versions of their software, be a good penguin p1mp and just buy it, download the executable, and send a friendly email and/or registration card to the company with your opinions regarding the packaging.
If we're not mean to them, maybe they won't be afraid to put it in the box next time. ;-)
the only files I see are the 49 MB full installs. Can I get just the Linux executables and reuse my win maps/pak files?
The more top-tier titles that are available for Linux, the better. Think about it this way: the most-played commercial title for Linux is undoubtedly Quake. Unreal is another top-shelf first person shooter. How long before companies producing titles in other genres say, "Hmm...id and Epic, for the most part, _own_ the [rapidly expanding] Linux market...we need to get a piece of the action!"
This is when you will see Linux executables in the same box as the Windows version. Epic releasing the executables for Linux (and open-sourcing parts of them) is a significant step towards this goal.
Wherever there's a will, there's a motorway.
I'm not thrilled with lack of Linux support in the box, but I understand it;
3D acclerator support under Linux is not good. It's getting better - but setting it up is a real pain and yeilds inconsistant results from program to program. I wouldn't want to support any Linux 3D-aware program till XFree v.4 with improved 3D and DRI support is released.
Lack of in-the-box Linux support won't prevent me from buying Unreal Tournament one bit...but I have to admit that Quake III Arena is ahead of UT on my shopping list. If UT did have Linux support in the box, I might have picked it up out of curiosity and to show support for future games. As of now, I'll wait till I use Q3A for a while and see if I want another FPS.
Once you have a fast enough connection, the idea that you would buy any software in boxes seems ludicrous. I'd just as soon be able to download the whole thing online, not just the executable. Online distribution is also nice because it's easier to update the executables/data as bugfixes come out. Having to go two places to get the whole thing is annoying though. I shouldn't have to go to the store to buy the box in addition to hunting around on the internet for the downloadables.
Ditto. I'll d/l the linux executable...just to help the linux numbers...but will not be giving cash to a company that didn't have the guts to put a "unsupported" directory on their cd. Get a different distributor.
I must be devolving. I found that Linux was the rest stop on the way to BeOS. It would be nice if Unreal Tournament was available in the box for Windows/Linux/BeOS.
Would ya quit complaining about these games (UT,Quake3) not being available for LinuxPPC and other architectures? There isn't even working 3dfx or any other 3d card drivers for LinuxPPC, you'd have a game binary but wouldn't be able to play it. Think a little.
Open sourcing the linux-specific parts, while obviously a noble gesture, will be practically useless. Open Sourcing small, periphery parts of applications just doesn't work, and the reasons for why are varied. I dont really feel like getting into them here, as I'm sure most of you already also realize this.
Marking this post down as flaimbait was a little harsh. Perhaps "overrated" would have been more appropriate, if one feels that BeOS fans are disproportionately upgrading the article's rating, but I really don't think the poster was trying to do anything but ask a question and make a polite request that their favorite OS get supported.
I agree with others that BeOS suffers from many of the disadvantages of other proprietary OSes. It is terribly vulnerable to orphaning should Be go under, it is pricy, it is much less polished in many respects than Linux, etc. etc. Still, it does do some things very nicely and, if nothing else, is a fun toy to play around with.
In any case, while I don't agree with the idea that BeOS should be getting support prior to Linux, I don't think the poster deserves getting nuked as "flaimbait," even though I do happen to agree with the resulting +1 score (but that may just be my pro-Linux bias speaking as much as anything).
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
To all of you that say you won't buy this game because there are no executables on the CD, I say this to you: You are being unbelievably childish. I have been preaching to all my friends that the day is coming, Linux (oh, sorry, that would be x86 Linux for those complaining about this little tidbit) will be the only OS on my drive when the games get here. Well guess what? The games are coming? Did you relinquish Quake 1 and 2 to the unwanted rubbish bin BEFORE id so graciously put out a CD with the Linux executables? Looking at the server stats, I don't think so. So what's different with UT?
Given the fact that they took the TIME to make a port for Linux, you should be gratefull, not petty. EPIC should not be made to suffer because of GT's decision. The files are AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW. Get them. Use them. Enjoy the game. If you punish Epic over this, not only will they not port again, but you are being the most vocal opponent of gaming on Linux. With every comment of "I won't buy it because of blah blah blah" you show the management of the distribution companies that you are an all or nothing group, and therefore all Linux users must be the same. Kiss any future support goodbye.
I bought the game today. I downloaded the files today. I WILL play it on Linux tonight. So sit on your high and mighty moral high ground if you will, but I'll be playing.
God forbid if Microsoft ever releases any software for Linux...
Have you seen the RT2 demo? Just detar it, cd to ./rt2_demo and type ./rt2. It's equally as easy with the myth2 demo and the Civ:CTP shrinkwrap edition.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I downloaded the executable last night to read the README to see if they had got support for Mesa in. This would have enabled me to play it under my tnt with hardware acceleration ( well, a tiny bit of hw acceleration ) a long with other people running g200s and g400s etc. It said he's still planning to support it and it still only supports 3dfx. Oh well, I'll just wait a while till that happens.
rm -rf ~/.signature
The support issue simply does not make sense.
They could have included an "limited support" binary, which the only support would be FAQ's and linux-techsupport@...
Sure some linux newbies may still harrass the 1800 lines or the main tech support, but what is preventing people from harassing them NOW about downloading/installing/running the Linux binary?
So the better solution is to send a positive message to Epic by buying their game. But before you even open it, sit down and write an intelligent email to GT explaining that are dissapointed with them, and that you want the linux version in the box next time. Then download the Linux binaries from Epic's site (which informs them too, that you want Linux). This way everyone get's a pro Linux takehome message.
That is exactly why giving away tech support is a bad idea in the first place. They should charge for tech support from the get-go. Then they could charge a lower price, make more profit, and penalize the users who have wierd system configurations or aren't capable of getting it working, or just like to call tech support and harass them.
Think about it..
what percentage of users actually need tech support?
How many of those are lamers who do stupid stuff?
How many of those are people who just didn't read the manual?
How many of those are people who insisted on installing "Game blaster game acceleration software" or "registry tuning software" and so fscked up their machine that it won't work?
That probably covers most of them, and if a couple of innocents have to pay.. oh well. They will have paid less for the boxed software in the first place, it will probably about balance out.
I think it would be a much better "value-add" than free tech support to *supply* a stripped down linux distribution that they can install that definitely will work with the game software.. heck that might solve a lot of windows users problems anyway.
I think this represents a much better economic model (of course I think the software should be free too, but I realize that can be difficult to apply in the gaming world). But I wouldn't expect GT or anyone else to think that "out of the box"... uk uk.. pun intended.
I was so impressed with the demo that I ordered the full version. It's really good to see that a Linux version is available for download so soon. Now if there was only something in the works for that other great alternate OS I'd be really happy. The GT Interactive decision not to include a Linux version because of support issues seems reasonable. Dollar costs aside, there aren't a lot of Linux trained people available to fill job positions. My 00.02$
Don't just sit around and wait for someone else to solve your problem -- solve it yourself!
Contribute!
Preach it!
Be glad they decided to make a linux port at all.
We get to make a choice as consumers that is as simple as this:
1) The product where the distributor acknowledges and treats us as if they want our business.
2) The product where the distributor would rather ignore us.
I WANT to repay Epic Games for their efforts. I'd rather buy UT rather than Q3. However, I don't want GTI to make one cent off of me. I don't want to encourage GTI's behavior. I don't want them to count me as just another Win32 sale.
Let me rehash my question that I already asked about Q3...
How does the Linux version of UT compare to the Windows when running on the same hardware?
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You may like my a cappella music
I really don't see what the fuss is about at all. So you have to download the Linux support as an optional extra. Woohoo, big deal.
If you think about it, this turns out to be better for the Linux users. If the Linux version were packaged with the Windows version, there would never be any figures on how many Linux users actually bought the game, so noone would ever know if porting to Linux had been worth the effort or not.
This way, Linux users have a chance to show their presence. I say buy the game. Download the Linux conversion. Slashdot the FTP server.
The game rocks, it beats Quake 3 hands down IMHO, and when the reports start rolling in of the FTP server melting under the demand from Linux users, game programmers and distributors will know how many copies of the game ended up in the hands of Linux users (legally, please), and maybe they'll consider upping their support of the OS.
The more I learn about the Internet, the more amazed I am that it works at all.
I see a few comments here advocating "pirating" Unreal Tournament because the Linux binaries have not been included. This is not smart. For those of you who are planning this, I ask you to read the Linux-Advocacy-How-To.
I for one am quite grateful to the guys for making the effort to have a Linux port. If you want to play the game under Linux? Buy the game, but make certain you fill out and mail in the registration card! On that card of course, indicate proudly that you purchased the game for Linux, the suits will notice this.
Every copy that you "liberate for the Linux cause" (Pah!) and pirate reduces one registration card. Emailing GT (In a constructive manner!) is good, but paying for the game and making it known that you are using the Linux version is the best course of action that we have.
GT is a company, it is their job to make money. If we can show them that they can make money off of Linux products they will change. I must admit that Quake 3 Arena is higher on my want list than Unreal Tournament, but I shall buy them both.
Its simple recursion: The more Linux stuff you buy the more there is too buy. The more Linux stuff you buy the more there is to buy.........
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
I'm tired of whining babies saying "they didn't include it for us so we're not going to buy it." Buy it, Download the Linux Files and email both GT Interactive and Epic and let them know that there IS a market for linux gamers! This is the only way we are going to start seeing games on this platform. Whining only hurts everyone. I'm downloading right now and as soon as I'm done, off to email I go.
... or has the whole Unreal thing lost all novelty now that everyone actually powerful enough hardware to run it? :o)
yeah
Uh, it is kind of difficult to fix a closed source program. If they would have just coded the thing to OpenGL then we wouldn't have this problem. So those of us without Voodoo graphics cards will have to wait till it is put in.
Hopefully releasing some of the Linux code will speed up the process.
Q.
"mean to them"? What is that supposed to mean (no pun intended)? I don't understand why some people here seem to equate a refusal to purchase UT as some sort of cruel punishment against GT and Epic. It can't be any further from the truth. You might as well say that Pepsi drinkers are cruelly punishing the Coca-Cola bottlers by not buying Coke
No, no, no. Not buying their game is nice, relatively.
I think what he refers to is such behavior as: Mail bombing customer support staff e-mail; sending off nasty letters; badmouthing the company in every venue; starting boycott campaigns; and generally being vehemently nasty and venemous about the box not displaying a penguin.
While I agree with the statement that opensource FRAGMENTS generally don't encourage the participation of outside developers and doesn't contribute back USEFUL NEW REUSABLE CODE, it is nice nonetheless because it allows us to fix, optimize, extend, and enhance UT.
Do you remember how much work everyone went through to reverse-engineer the doom wad formats? and then to write the various frontends? How many doom players *didn't* use some 3rd party frontend, level editor, etc...
Having the linux parts opensourced *DOES* give developers a lot more info FOR DEVELOPING ENHANCEMENTS TO UT . It doesn't give much to people who are trying to rip off UT and use it's game engine all that much tho.
The developers do have a right to profit from and protect their coding efforts. I don't deny them that at all. I'm happy that they're allowing us to tinker with the linux parts so that eventually we'll all have lots of great enhancements for UT that don't run under Windows.
When epic sees development and enhancement being driven by LINUX users of UT, they'll have a harder time justifying not fully supporting it (including training their support staff in linux!)
Well, I tried the UT LINUX Demo in the past. The problem I found---no X11 DGA mouse support. It will probably be supported in the future though. A smooth mouse is key to a good fps.
One of the main reasons Linux/Open Source Software is so lauded is because of the extensive Internet-based support available for it via mailing lists and IRC. Perhaps it would be better for them to adopt this kind of support model for their games. Hire some people, get them familiar with the Linux version of the game, and let them loose on IRC. Encourage community support from other users.
You'd still need to make it clear that phone support isn't available, but it's probably better than no support at all. Even just providing a support forum where people can ask other users questions (without having to hire anybody to give official answers) would be better than no support at all.
[Seoman] "A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking."
FWIW, I plan to d/l the Linux binaries from a few different IP addresses in order to:
1. Up their log stats and hopefully promote actual Linux "releases."
2. Make up the shortfall due to whiney gits who won't d/l.
Of course, not using this e-mail address...
This sig left unintentionally blank.
As the subject says-- I think that the fact GT fears the customer support for UT for Linux should be TELLING US SOMETHING.
.plan. Another cookie.)
UT isn't a clue-requiring program to get running under Windows. Under Linux, I'm not sure-- I'm still downloading the binaries-- but if my experience with getting any other non-distribution-targeted binary to run, I understand their fear.
GLIBC 1.x, 2.x, 2342.23423-- who expects an average gamer to know the difference?? Libraries? Support packages? Various bits and pieces not necessarily shared between distributions?
Now, I'm a Linux advocate and, games excepted, my PC staus in Linux 90% of the time. My Sony Vaio notebook got nuked the day I got it and Linux installed. When I get a binary package, and it seems to be missing some dependencies, I know how to chase them down-- i.e. through the docs, through HOW-TO's, even through Deja.com searches. Sometimes, I even chase down the source and recompile it myself by hand, and have been known to tweak Makefiles and the source itself.
This isn't a problem for me.
However, might it be a problem for less clueful Linux users? Granted, the case could be made that, currently, success in setting up Linux at all is the result of a certain cluefulness. (That's another long running criticism that I won't touch further here.)
But either way, the gamble could seem very scary to a company like GT looking to make some money off sales. The price of one service call could wipe out the profit from the purchase of the game?! OUCH! Even with a disclaimer saying, "Don't call us, you're on your own," they're not entirely clear of the problem I think.
I think this issue is more complex than, "Bad GT, no biscuit!"
In their (and our) favor: The UT team wasn't burned at the stake for making a Linux port, and allowed to release it. Good GT, here's a cookie.
Against us: Linux is not yet clue-free enough for a quick, nearly support-free installation of games.
Against them (and us): Linux is not enough of a contender enough in the gaming market for GT to invest in hiring and training Linux gurus for support. Or, for that matter, hire developers who specifically know how to work Linux to solve installation problems in the first place.
So what's my answer? Enjoy the port. Work to make Linux more uniform in basic ways. BUY THE STINKING GAME IF YOU WANT TO PLAY IT, DOWNLOAD THE BINARIES, SEND IN YOUR REGISTRATION CARD WITH GLOWING LINUX PRAISE. Piracy blows the chances of Linux EVER becoming a contender to be considered investing development of software and games for a company like GT.
(Granted a case here could also be made for Open Source game development, but that's another can of worms... but even on this GT appears to be flexible, as per Greenmarine's
I'm just thrilled that the linux port was done at all! I reserved my copy (the software store nearest me ran out this morning) and will be d/l'ing the linux binary this evening.
The more games, the better.
Sure, it worked for you, but will it work on:
Slackware, Debian, OpenLinux, RedHat 5 & 6, Mandrake, Corel, Joe's-Homebrew-Linux-Built-From-Scratch.
A customer support NIGHTMARE.
You must have been looking at the download links for the Linux UT /demo/ and not the executables for the full game. Here are download links:
download UT400 executables
I don't think its a childish reaction. I think many of us don't want to support a company (i.e. GTI) which is not willing to even acknowledge linux even in an unsupported manner.
What is the revenue breakdown between Epic and GTI. Say its 50/50 (support costs a bunch). Am I willing to subsidize Windows users? Hell no. (Sorry Epic, I know it was a last minute thing.)
Some will say that Epic has released the linux x86 binary on their web site. If I were a windows user considering linux, should I be responsible for researching the web for every linux game I want to play? It is possible, but an unreasonable amount of effort IMO. Does anyone know if the CD has a readme file pointing to linux binaries at Epic's site? Most likely not.
The guy from Epic looks like he tried his best and I commend him. I wish GTI saw the light. The game sounds good. I hope those who do decide to purchase the game let their voice be heard through their registration card.
To my knowledge, this is the last game from Epic to be published by GT. They've signed on with the newly formed 'Gathering of Developers' (www.godgames.com).
-palin
Granted, the online community is a much better source for help for just about anything, and I greatly appreciate that. However, I'm not going to spend the same amount of money on UT and not get what everyone else is getting. I'd like to thank Epic for making it available for linux, that's an excellent thing. I'd like to support you in that regard, but I'd rather not allow this trend of putting out a windoze version and allowing linux users to get the short end of the stick by purchasing the retail copy but not getting the whole package (meaning tech support, even if it's much less likely to occur with linux users for the most part) continue. I believe that, while at least we get the game, we don't get the same value out of the product that others get.
Thank you Epic, for trying your best and sticking up for us. I'm just disappointed that this precedent of the "unsupported" platform continues.
lol, sure..as if there is any other distrubutors who are dumb enough to sacrifice their profit just to create a game for 2%(or less) of the linux community who can't pick a standard. Linux being a gaming machine is like a big wet dream, and that's all. A wanna be poor mans OS to sum it up. I'll wait for a distro that is actually FINISHED and can do everything I want it to do, not just some.
That readme is OLD! Look at the version number it lists stuff for!
:), so I can't confirm this - but there are some files having to do with OpenGL in the System/ directory of the demo...
I don't have my TNT2 installed yet (just got it yesterday, waiting for the rest of the computer to arrive
because it's their code, not somebody elses. UT can licences the code out to the general public under the GPL and still distribute the same code in binary for only in their game. Now, when external developers start contributing code is where things get sticky; the (legal) solution to this is what the FSF does with gnu code: to require copyright assignment to UT for any code that is to go into the actual game. That said, I'm not sure how I would feel about such a situation, but GPLing the Linux UT code would actually benefit them: they get improvements, but other game companies cannot legally use the code without making arrangements with the UT poeple.
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
sblive users are SOL if they wanna play UT with sound.
other than that, it seems to run great for me.
this isn't brand new ground. what did they do?
If I'm not getting support, don't I get to download it for free? (I've never called tech support of any kind btw. ever.)
Do you suppose that someone's keeping track of how many download-requests servers get for UT/Linux?
-rozzin.
Wait a sec. How many people out there have NEVER had to patch a game before? How many games have you bought and had to go home only to find out that you had to (or at least should) download a patch to the game? How many of those patches erased your save game files? PC gaming is all about patches so sooner or later you windows people are going to have to patch UT. So the linux people download the patch as the first thing? BFD. Buy the game, it's great. Besides, 3-D is faster under Windows. --Linux can never beat windows because people are dumb.
Does this release support non Voodoo cards? I downloaded the whole demo (50 megs on a 38400 connection!) only to find out that it wouldn't support my TNT2. I was thinking of getting UT to support the release of Linux games but if Epic isn't going to support other cards I can't justify the expense just to have a Windows only game. If I'm missing something, somebody please let me know. I know that q3 said it only supported Voodoo but I got my TNT2 to work, if something like that is in order I'll pick my UT up as soon as possible.
I couldn't get OpenGL to work with the files included with the demo. All I could get was a segment violation.
If the Linux support is mature, it shouldn't raise many more issues than the Windows binary. If it isn't yet mature, then do what id did for a while: clearly stamp it as unsupported (admittedly, non-support is more obvious if the user must dl the binaries electronically).
The typical user who is likely to call up a phone number upon hitting a problem isn't terribly likely to even have Linux, much less use it exclusively. Recall that part-time Linux users often dual-boot just for games, and wouldn't be shut out if the Linux version didn't work; they'd at least try under Windows before calling up a phone number.
>but other game companies cannot legally use the code without making arrangements with the UT poeple.
Unless the other game companies GPL their code. Which is only a matter of time for a game with a custom engine that isn't likely to be licensed. It would be a bad idea for id to GPL q3. For a game like myst or warcraft GPLing the code could very well work, since mose of the value is the art and story attached to it. These would still fall under copyright.
How is he supposed to solve it? The UT client for Linux only properly supports Glide. His only option would be to make a Glide->OpenGL wrapper. Then he'd get sued by 3dfx, who are a bunch of ass-fucks when it comes to people doing stuff like that. I guess that's why they are getting thrashed by Nvidia, and will be a distant memory within a year. You stupid fuck.
GT was the same company that was selling other peoples games with no royalties or permission! Search slashdot.
And I repeat: "What is this crap?" I have linux running on 3 machines and bsd on 2, ppc and 68k repectively. I don't have a single x86 boxen running Linux. Does that make me one of "the wee people". Do I make you laugh. How bout i make you laugh this way:
I make the kick ass Linux break out and conquer all the desktops drown m$ in its own vomit killer app. And i only release the PPC binary shouting at the top of my lungs "Step right up and buy the definitive LINUX DESKTOP APP, no others need apply." How you gonna like them apples. It runs on Linux (PPC that is) and you can't have it. You want it bad, so bad you can taste it. But I already have a Linux version, why should I recompile for x86?
Second - non-Portable code is crap - only exceptions being tweaking, hand crafted/loved assembly, and drivers. If it ain't Scottish, it's Crap!
You seemed to miss the meat of this article, that a minority (**** 3% ****) was being ignored, made second class, being black balled, then you turn right around and do this very thing, non x86 is not significant. We are Significant even if we aren't a majority.
my rant, I now conclude:
Everyone matters.
USA-Democracy is 270 million YESes and NOes a day, not one every four years.
if your game isn't heavily threaded, just compile it for glibc2.0. This will get you 95% or more of the market, since glibc2.1 can run glibc2.0 apps transparently. That last 5% of (OLD) slackware users can install the glibc package, using pkgadd. Trust me, anyone running an old version of slackware can handle that.
The linux is fragmented argument is only really valid for heavily multithreaded applications like mozilla.
A question twords the future, will "For Linux" mean for Linux/i386 [The Platform] or will it mean for Linux [The OS]? Which would you rather it imply?
USA-Democracy is 270 million YESes and NOes a day, not one every four years.
Works, not in every snapshot, but there are alpha users developing it. So, it COULD work on alpha.
I like giving my messages catchy titles....
Actually, from my understanding of the game sellers market this is actually, possibly a positive message. Did you know that up until this year every hybrid Win9x/MacOS game sold was counted as a PC sell by all the major stat people, even the stores themselves. Now hybrids have thier own catagory. I own 5 hybrid discs and not one has touched an x86 and yet all data that gets compiled and shoved down my gullet says "Thanks for purchasing five more Win9x games." Oh, you may say, fill out the reg card. I did. Game companies never use those for sale volume numbers, way to unreliable. I basically screwed myself over. Not only did I increase the numbers for Win9x by 5, I basically decreased the sales of my OS of Choice by 5. Ain't that a kick in the pants and a trouser full of fish.
So I say, DON'T! DON'T BUY THE Win9x BOX, it will only increase the percieved purchases by Gates drones. Do donwload at least once the binary for Linux. You will be stealing from the Win9x crowd. Tim Sweeney of Epic will be able to say, "You sold this many boxes, and there were this many downloads for linux, that means 3% (or 7% or 20% or 35%) of the sales were really for linux. Better include them on the CD next time, they might not be so generous."
To Repeat
Don't buy Win9x box
Download Linux binary
Cackle as percived sales are re-adjusted
As Scrouge McDuck says, "Work smarter, not harder."
USA-Democracy is 270 million YESes and NOes a day, not one every four years.
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and yada yada yada yada.............................................. ........................................ .................................................. ........................................ ........idiot
You're just a wimp! Real Men (tm) and Real Women (tm) will sacrifice a few features for an overall better system, and they arn't afraid to learn what they dont know. :)
Go away troll.
Registration cards are like valentines...you really care how many you get, but you never go showing around what's written on them.
Do you think GT will tell LucasArts or Bungie or HasbroInteractive how many cards they got saying "I love linux and bought this Win9x game to actually play it under linux." Yah right, and when i bought X-COM (1,2,and 3) to play under VirtualPC on MacOS, I told MicroProse that, I don't think they passed it on to any other companies. No, LucasArts and Bungie and HasbroInteractive will look at the box sales and say, the Win9x market for this genre is strong, lets make some money.
Registration cards are crap, at least as far as swaying what platform. They are just pleasantly worlded consumer porfiling, to be sold if the price is right.
If your so all fired pumped up to do you duty, wait awhile for the MacOS port, buy that box. That's one less sale for Gates, One more sale for MacOS, and One more sale (if you fill out that precious registration card) for Linux.
Meanwhile I'm downloading the Linux Binary from 7 different IPs, Eat My Mind Flame Win9Xers.
USA-Democracy is 270 million YESes and NOes a day, not one every four years.
HINT TO THE GTI LOVERS:::: THEY DON"T CARE __AT ALL ::::::
That's right folks, whatever you say one way or another will have no effect on the future actions of this company. The attitude you see now is the same you will see 5 years from now. There already is a dominant platform in the gaming mkt.: GTI can only be made to care about Linux porting if they believe there will be enough lost sales to impact their bottom line. Any other "strategy"is a plan to fail, a capitualation, a joke. If people want to demonstrate the mistake that GTI has made here, they will actually have to get off their asses and do and or say something in a public way. That can include open and directed letters encouraging a change in attitude, downloading the Linux binary, sending the retail amount for UT directly to Epic, and yes -=)NOT(=- buying the damn Windows box for the data files.
dl the Linux binary, pay Epic the retail amount for the game, boycott the Windows box, and give GTI the re$pect they have shown you as a Linux user: ie., NONE.
While it's been my experience that using tech support is typically a last resort, it would be foolish to say that we don't rely on the expertise of others to advance our own knowledge. We do this through newsgroups, how-to's, and other means. I've worn a few hats in this industry, and I can say that I appreciate knowing there's a tech there. The linux world may use different methods, but the purpose and result are the same.
I think our community has something great in the sense that there's just so much support out there online, and it's great knowing that we're just a search-engine away from an answer, instead of being on hold for the next 15 or so minutes.
Puffing up ones chest and saying "tech support, we don't need no steenkin tech support" drips with a little too much pride for me. It's a necessary evil, every now and then. In the case of games, I can't say I've needed to call, but as someone who used to work in a service center (you try figuring out those Packard Bells on your own!), I can say that I've appreciated having someone on the other end of a phone. The great part is, like most geeks, I walked away, knowing more than I did, and grew slightly less dependant on someone else for help.
Yes, I should have made that distinction, I was thinking it. And you're right, most of the value in q3 is the engine, rather than the art. Not so much for the engine itself, but rather it's extensibility and the network code. I would say that in many cases, people with by q3, throw out the pre-packaged artwork and create their own (all those add-ons:).
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
...The linux is fragmented argument is only really valid for heavily multithreaded applications like mozilla.
Really? Well, I've had a few problems here and there in the past with binary packages other than Mozilla, which I'm completely willing to slate up to cluefulness I've since gained.
But, I've seen a bit of FUD about Linux market fragmentation and incompatibilities. Perceptions are stronger than realities, since the first are the only way we know anything about the second.
Indeed --there's something to pray for.
It's childish of you, TREMOR, to insult and demonize the boycotters for being "childish". Not only is it unnecessarily offensive and childish name calling to insult people who have decided to take a principled stand that happens to reflect badly on you, but after all, what's really more childish --believing that lost sales will influence GT's future behavior, or believing that GT merits positive reinforcement for screwing over both Epic and Linux users and will be improved by it? No: you have to have the superstitious faith of a child that his dreams will magically come true to believe any good purpose is served by paying GT for this action.
What possessed you to end a mature, if fact free post with a regression to 8th grade? if you're going to say something like that without backing it up, that's fine. Just don't add a useless insult, that only reflects badly on you and I'm sure does nothing to actually hurt the feelings of the person you're trying to insult. Posting this anonymously was probably a good idea, you never know if people you know are going to read this.
You seem to think registration cards are actually read. Rethink this.
As far as I can tell I at no point advocate piracy - the binary is freely downloadable, they are assuming you are going to use it with the data on the CD and not just send it to dev/null. Which is what I say to do. Several Times, from different IPs.
And if I was advocting piracy I would be in excellant company, did you know Ghandi making salt from ocean water was an act of piracy, stealing from the British Commonwealth thier rightfull salt tax? And for the US of Aers out there, I should not have to mention the Boston Tea Party. Now I am advoacting dressing up as a Penguin and tossing Windows EULAs in the drink if you are asking.
So don't pirate, legally go acquire the binary and let it take up space or launch it into space, I don't care. It's FREE, as in FREE BEER!, Chug till your hearts content.
USA-Democracy is 270 million YESes and NOes a day, not one every four years.
and got no where to go. thats beos. face it linux is moving at a MUCH faster pace than beos and has ALOT more users.. they arent going to port it just because 300(if that) people want a beos version
To everyone that thinks that companys don't look at registration cards, think again. Those cards cost money. The bulk rate postage costs money. Mailroom workers cost money. Why would they spend all this money if they were going to ignore the cards. Sure they use the data you give them for marketing and stuff, but do a couple of pieces of junk mail really matter that much? Just don't give them your phone number (If I ever get my hands on those bastards at Interplay...). Besides, i work in advertising and sometimes I have to deal with the results of these registration cards.
Even if they don't share the info with other companies (which I'm sure they don't) they will still realize that there is a Linux market out there and probably be more supportive in the future. Then other companies will notice that someone is making money off of the Linux market. Then they will start supporting it. It's a nice little circle.
Think about it
Pete
The sole purpose of the Internet is to get porn and bomb making plans into the hands of children.
Most of the people posting on this topic are missing the point...GT is a mainstream game company. Linux is not a mainstream OS. It's trying to be, but it has a *long* way to go. Think about this...you call 10,000 people at random and ask them if they have ever heard of linux. Then ask if they have ever seen it in use. Then ask if they have ever used for any computing tasks. I guarantee that at the end you might have 10 people who can say yes to all three questions. Of those ten, maybe one who likes to play games, and can actually get a game running under linux (no small feat). GT (not EPIC, btw...its not their fault) is not going to deal with supporting a "boxed" linux version for that few people, it doesn't make economic sense. Makes me wonder how many of the naysayers actually know anything about business. My point is that the OS is flawed, not the software and hardware companies. IF linux ever gets to the point that it doesn't require someone with extensive computing experience to use it, then you'll see software and hardware companies jump on the bandwagon in droves. Perhaps MS had the right idea when they started with an easy to use OS, and then tried to add some power to it, rather than taking a powerful OS and trying to make it user friendly...I realy hope not, because the concept behind linux is great. It just needs a better execution.
* A *much* better designed interface with a consistent GUI
* A journaling filesystem *built-in*
* MUCH better support for recent (last 2 years) hardware made in the last 2/3 years.
* MUCH better installation
* Easier Driver coding
* Designed for Multimedia (with a new focus on gaming)
* It's not pricey last time I checked. Remember the quote "Linux is only free if your time is worthless" ?
In short, I have had inexperienced friends install the BeOS R4.5 in *under 20 minutes*. At the end, they are given a perfectly functional OS that boots fully (on my machine) in 22 seconds.
I wouldn't wish Linux on anyone that wasn't a coder. I do believe that my Grandmother could use the BeOS with little trouble.
Also, I'm willing to place a bet that BeOS will have infinitely better TNT/TNT2/GeForce256/Voodoo? drivers than Linux in the coming year. The acceleration in the BeOS revisions is unbelievable. Try saying that about Linux.
In a couple of weeks when the patches start rolling in, nobody will ever use the executables on the CD anyway.
Thanks for staying on the subject.
Oh yeah? What about the OpenGL support in BeOS then? It's certainly fast enough on *my* machine.
:-)
About coding under the BeOS: It's still a little tedious, IMHO. The IDE is not perfect (yet) but it's getting there. The GUI is nice, but I would like some more customizability.
BeOS isn't there yet, but it sure looks promising. I bought R4.5, along with the book. I haven't regretted it, and this way I support those guys, so it makes me feel good as well.
Keep up the good work!
(Oh yeah, to stay a little bit on topic: Unreal kicks ass
Whilst it is disappointing that they pulled the Linux code, I can't really find fault with their decision. As far as I know there is no "out of the box" Linux distributions that will run OpenGL or Glide software accelerated on a 3D card (Correct me if I'm wrong) So we can't expect them to release a product for a non-existent platform !
I guess things will change rapidly when RedHat etc comes with the next version of X Windows including drivers for 3D accelerators. Can't wait.
john carmack asked his linux customers to make their presence and wishes known by waiting to purchase the linux version of q3a. ut appears to have better bots and i would have bought it instead but i'll opt to support myself and my system by letting company's like gt know that we're not all windows users. can't wait to get my copy of q3a, penguin on the box and all.
They should mention that even with my 486, an i386, it won't run worth a damn. Wtf. Come on people, please tell me about this before I download this stuff.
I'm sorrym, I wouldn't have said anything, but fileplanet did mention that these were linux i386 binaries before you download them. Though I would like it if they would just post the damn readme, so I could see if the linux version needs glide, or if it will run with just opengl.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
See, it really didn't even matter that a linux binary wasn't included in the box, or that they didn't specicify i386 linux. They forgot to mention that this ONLY supports 3dfx cards. That is a HUGE deal to most of us, more than that petty shit I just mentioned.
I assumed that OpenGL/Mesa was supported by this time for the linux port, and that the delay was just temporary. I was going to waste my time downloading the whole binary just to read the README file just to be sure.
Now I know. Thabk you.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent