. . . I doubt that most of the people here (/.) live on the ocean, bay, lake, etc.
This is no doubt true. However turning things around a bit changes the situation. There are some thousands who live afloat away from traditional services by choice and tens of thousands who do so by profession.
On the whole they are a remarkably tech savy and resourceful group of people. When your life depends on some gadget and that gadget ceases to function you fix it or die. It focuses the mind in a way that "I wonder what will happen if I compile this" just doesn't.
Internet service for these people is a real issue.
Most people, in general, have access of some sort or another to a local telco monopoly.
On the other hand I'm not sure that this is true at all. What's more there are plenty of places where there is local phone service and you're simply not going to be able to get a T1 line. You can't even buy out the company. I'd hazard a guess there are at least a few thousands of Slashdotters who fall into this catagory and certainly millions of internet users. Perhaps hundreds of millions.
If not satellite is you next best bet.
Indeed, and the subject of the Slashdot "story."
And it sucks, but sometimes ya do what ya gotta do.
By the same token if you have the $$$ you can get cable anywhere you can get a T1.
Well, perhaps you might be surprised that a good many geek gods don't have $$$ because they've been doing geeky things instead of amassing $$$.
I'm not a geek god. Maybe a Roshi. A grey ponytail. Larry can have fun playing with his Ferrari and Marchetti, but I'd slit my skinny geeky wrists before I'd do what he did to get them. I have just as much fun with my Schwinn and homemade scrounged bits and plastic sheeting hang glider.
Or maybe a boat.
Do you have a globe handy? You are a geek aren't you? Ah, well, they don't make geeks like they used to I guess. In my day. . . , well, nevermind.
You've at least seen a globe. So picture that globe in your mind, rotate it up a bit. A bit more, Now to the left, more, more. . ..Stop!
You are now looking at a globe that for all practical purposes is painted blue.
Who is the local telco and will they run a T1 line there? Will they run another 100 miles away tomorrow?
You are looking at the ground. Lift your head and broaden your horizon. It's a big world and it ain't all wired, or even wirable.
Once upon a time, out in that patch of pure blue on the globe, a women alone in a small sailboat got into trouble. The only other person with any hope of coming to her aid was a man in another small sailboat. He was asleep at the time.
How was he notified of the situation?
Email.
The big world gets smaller all the time. It is possible in some way to get connected from anywhere (although if you have to carry that way on your back over mountains it might be better to just forget about it).
One of the advantages of the "Internet Lifestyle" is that it lets you do your work from more and more remote places.
One of the disadvantages of the "Internet Lifestyle" is that it lets you do your work from more and more remote places.
Places where broadband isn't available.
You might be surprised just how many geek gods are on dialup because they are geek gods. If they just lived in Altoona (or Ann Arbor) and delivered pizzas they could get cable service, but they can live anywhere they want and still work, so they go someplace nice.
Personally I like mountains and oceans, but dragging a few thousand miles of coax behind you is a bitch. The bounce to the bird is irrelevant for downloads and uploads (you only experience the lag once), but a bitch for real time interaction.
The geekiest people may well be the people with the worst internet service.
I think the essential point that you're missing here is that your opinion doesn't count.
Only the opinion of the guy who has a pile of resumes and a trash can is relevant.
KFG
Re:Another day, another batch of applications
on
Joel Rants About Resumes
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
(some might say arbitrary)
In a certain sense, yes the process is arbitrary, and frankly most of the process is bullshit. Nobody really cares where you want to be in five years. They just ask that question because they have to ask questions and don't know what else to ask.
Here's the deal, and you can read it all over Spolsky's piece:
You get hired because they like you, or at least dislike you less than the other candidates.
That's it. You're a Cubs fan. The candidate is a Cubs fan. Something stupid like that. It's a matter of "vibes." You're just not allowed to admit that officially in these ultra uptight egalitarian times when everyone is supposed to be equal as a human being.
Resumes and qualifications are tools used to eliminate candidates, not hire them. You can't make your resume "grab 'em" except in the negative sense. Then the basic purpose of an interview is to find out who you want to hire. As in, "Do I like this guy," or, yes it happens, "Nice tits."
You still obviously don't know what hiberation is.
I've already stipulated that I was arguing semantics. The reason I'm arguing semantics is because it's a semantic issue. You can't refer me to the technical definition of "hibernate" (which in theory would end the argument right there), because there isn't one. The term is only contextual within a certain enviroment since different "people" (vendors, developers, whatever)all define it slightly differently.
That's why I was asking the troll for the defintion. I didn't tell him he was a moron for his defintion.
The WinTel/Windows XP context (the explicit context in which we're having this discussion), so far as I can determine, defines hibernating as saving state to disk and then shutting down.
I'm perfectly willing to except that definition and it's the one I've been using all along.
And whether a hibernating machine can be turned of is irrelevant. The only thing at issue here is whether it is turned off. And the answer to that is not necessarily.
My premise, my only premise, is that a Windows machine that is put into hibernation mode strictly through software (and the front panel switch is a software switch, one that is not capable of disconecting power to the machine) may be drawing power and the way to reduce power usage to a minimum is to turn it off. To disconnect it from the source of power. Use a breaker switch. Pull the plug. Dike off the hot wire. Whatever.
Now with regards to laptops on commercial flights it is illegal to have a laptop turned on during takeoffs and landings. Again, they don't care about the definition of hibernate. They care about the definition of off. If you shut down/hibernate the computer from the shut down menu or by closing the lid there is nothing to prevent the device from receiving and sending radio signals during takeoff and landing because it may still be powered.
So, let me again restate my premise (which makes no reference to hibernation) and see if you have any problem with it:
If you want your Windows XP Media Center PC to use the minimum amount of power possible, turn it off. Turn off the monitor too while you're at it.
If that's true, then a PC that is truly "Shut Down" also may still be drawing current and providing functionality.
When you turn off your VCR is it not still visibly drawing current and providing functionality? Does it not change it's state if you physically disconnect it from the power source? Does it not behave in an anomolous fashion when reconnected to the source of power because some function was interupted?
You could easily add such a visible current draw device to your ATX computer. When you shut down from the front panel button or the shutdown menu the device would stay lit by drawing line power. Depending on how your computer is configured you may already have such a current draw display device. Shut down normally, walk around to the back of the machine, see if the NIC light went out.If your NIC light is not on first configure your compter so that it stays on when you shut down.
Now throw the breaker switch on the system (either on the power supply, UPS or power strip).
The little light goes out. Because it is no longer drawing power. Because the computer is physically disconnected from the power source. Reconnect the breaker, the little light comes back on. All of this while the computer is shut down.
When you shut down an ATX computer all power is shut down except that from a 5 volt connection. That 5 volt connection can, and is, used to power all sorts of things, such as the programable button on the front of the case (through the motherboard), or the NIC, or in some rarer cases even a cooling fan that keeps going after the computer shuts down.
Have you never read a vendor warning to pull the plug or turn the machine off with the power supply breaker switch before performing certain hardward tasks?
Shut down means shut down, an OS function (which by using ACPI can control some power funtions). It does not mean "turned off."
What happens when you shut down Windows on a non ACPI computer?
Most modern electronic devices are softswitched and the only way to reduce their current draw to 0 is turn them off, i.e. physically disconnect them from the power source by pulling the plug or installing an inline breaker switch in the power cord (most easily done by using a power strip). You may find this inconvienient, however, since they have certain functionality that depends on drawing power continuously.
I'd hazzard a guess that a Windows XP Media Center PC and attendant devices draw enough power to light the room while switched off and shut down and the beige box alone could be used to power nightlight if you wished.
The only time I wave a flag is when I'm in international or foreign waters. If I do not I am officially outlaw.
I always resent doing so. I find flags and what they stand for repulsive. Flag waving is Fascism (following the flag, as in a Roman military unit).
Perhaps you are mistaking my priciples of individual liberty and independence (and thus an aversion to socialism in certain cases) to be right wing American patriotism.
If so, sir, the mistake is yours.
Either that or you're just trolling me and I've been had.:)
Cribs is interesting if you're into architecture and interior decorating. The chief problem with Cribs is that the majority of celebs they cover are the sort that throw a lot of money and bad taste at the problem. Still, watching Cribs is roughly analogous to looking at a finished program, which can have its points of interest.
I prefer While You Were Out/Trading Spaces.
Now this is serious hacking under pressure, right down to the construction of custom furniture on the spot. It's amazing what you can do with a little paint and MDF and I've seen a number of interesting ideas.
But I'll note that I don't pay any attention to their working enviroment, ya know, the trailer and the specific tools and how they lay them out and stuff.
I'm looking at their output.
It's the algorithm I'm interested in, not how they typed it.
Ah, well, in the matter of what I have been curious about I find I must fall back on argument by authoritity. Your disagreement is nullified.
. . . a copulation ad infinitum contrary to the foul wench that is your petridish.
There are laws against that sort of thing you know? Not to mention the fact that I now have the vague feeling that I'm supposed to slap your face and challange you to a duel.
I'll have to discuss that matter with my petri dish I suppose and find out what the foul wench thinks about the matter.
>Don't sell him short just because he's mostly >evil...
>>The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. >>An evil soul producing holy witness >>Is like a villain with a smiling cheek, >>A goodly apple rotten at the heart. >>O what a goodly outside falsehood hath!
Troll it may or may not be, but it is also the most pertinent (Having logical precise relevance to the matter at hand) observation ever penned by man.
Have you ever been curious about what someone else's computing environment looks like?
No. No I have not. I have been so not curious that the very question takes me aback.
Is this something like "Geeks Uncensored" or the "Weekly Geek News"? What's the favorite programing language of the Bat Boy anyway? Are we going to see Linus throwing his jacket over his monitor as the paparazzi descend upon him?
What a peculiar concept.
KFG
Re:Small Scale Death Star II? As opposed to what?
on
Han Solo in Lego Carbonite
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
When I was 5 or so it was still possible to walk through a well to do household and not see any plastic other than some knobs on appliances. Any rubber goods would be natural rubber mixed with carbon.
Unless you looked in the toy box. There you would find the familiar green plastic army men and plastic dolls. I still have the truck and cannon that came with the army men I received for my first birthday (sentimental value. They're the only birthday present I ever received from my father).
But the familiar Lego building brick had not quite made it to the new world yet and my mother had entered college before they were invented.
My grandparents predate cellophane. Think about that. One of my uncles was taught to fly by Orville Wright. We've come a long, long way within the living memory of some (although not, alas, of my aforementioned relatives).
Don't sell him short just because he's mostly evil...
The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness Is like a villain with a smiling cheek, A goodly apple rotten at the heart. O what a goodly outside falsehood hath!
I thought people like Gates were what they invented the MBE for. Prosperous tradesman who wished to purchase a bit of upscale chic, but who you'd never want to think of in the same class as a "Sir."
No, I'm not sure it's proper to say that cause and effect would be violated. They would exchange places creating an "antiphysics," the most critical part of which would be the Anti-Second Law of Thermodynamics.
However, what that would do is violate the Priciple of Covariance. The laws of physics would be variable with one's frame of reference.
Since it was the Principle of Covariance that led inevitably to the Theory of Relativity (or the Theory of Invariants, as Einstein prefered); and since the Theory of Relativity has withstood considerable test, one may reasonably assume that the covariance hypothesis has also withstood test.
I'm afraid I've always considered superluminal phenomenoa being treated as a mere issue of cause and effect to be a bit of a dumbing down of the subject.:)
Slashdot Mirror
Then it's neither an advantage or disadvantage, is it?
No. It is both an advantage and a disadvantage at the same time.
Most things are since they exist in some state of compromise. Making things different is only adjusting the slider on the compromise mixer.
KFG
. . . I doubt that most of the people here (/.) live on the ocean, bay, lake, etc.
This is no doubt true. However turning things around a bit changes the situation. There are some thousands who live afloat away from traditional services by choice and tens of thousands who do so by profession.
On the whole they are a remarkably tech savy and resourceful group of people. When your life depends on some gadget and that gadget ceases to function you fix it or die. It focuses the mind in a way that "I wonder what will happen if I compile this" just doesn't.
Internet service for these people is a real issue.
Most people, in general, have access of some sort or another to a local telco monopoly.
On the other hand I'm not sure that this is true at all. What's more there are plenty of places where there is local phone service and you're simply not going to be able to get a T1 line. You can't even buy out the company. I'd hazard a guess there are at least a few thousands of Slashdotters who fall into this catagory and certainly millions of internet users. Perhaps hundreds of millions.
If not satellite is you next best bet.
Indeed, and the subject of the Slashdot "story."
And it sucks, but sometimes ya do what ya gotta do.
KFG
Would it be easier to find a job if I cancelled my DSL and invested in a flock of pigeons?
Not a job, per se, but you could make a living. There are people who will pay good money for a pigeon.
CPIP Packet Loss
KFG
And if you're not working to a government/corporate spec you can actually make the bird out of scrounged electronics and a Pringles can.
KFG
Yep, that star is right about where I plan to be in June 2006.
KFG
By the same token if you have the $$$ you can get cable anywhere you can get a T1.
.Stop!
Well, perhaps you might be surprised that a good many geek gods don't have $$$ because they've been doing geeky things instead of amassing $$$.
I'm not a geek god. Maybe a Roshi. A grey ponytail. Larry can have fun playing with his Ferrari and Marchetti, but I'd slit my skinny geeky wrists before I'd do what he did to get them. I have just as much fun with my Schwinn and homemade scrounged bits and plastic sheeting hang glider.
Or maybe a boat.
Do you have a globe handy? You are a geek aren't you? Ah, well, they don't make geeks like they used to I guess. In my day. . . , well, nevermind.
You've at least seen a globe. So picture that globe in your mind, rotate it up a bit. A bit more, Now to the left, more, more. . .
You are now looking at a globe that for all practical purposes is painted blue.
Who is the local telco and will they run a T1 line there? Will they run another 100 miles away tomorrow?
You are looking at the ground. Lift your head and broaden your horizon. It's a big world and it ain't all wired, or even wirable.
Once upon a time, out in that patch of pure blue on the globe, a women alone in a small sailboat got into trouble. The only other person with any hope of coming to her aid was a man in another small sailboat. He was asleep at the time.
How was he notified of the situation?
Email.
The big world gets smaller all the time. It is possible in some way to get connected from anywhere (although if you have to carry that way on your back over mountains it might be better to just forget about it).
But that way will often have to eschew wires.
KFG
A true geek is always connected. The price of cellular internet has come down. . .
How's cellular coverage at fifty-fifty? (That would be degrees north and west)
KFG
One of the advantages of the "Internet Lifestyle" is that it lets you do your work from more and more remote places.
One of the disadvantages of the "Internet Lifestyle" is that it lets you do your work from more and more remote places.
Places where broadband isn't available.
You might be surprised just how many geek gods are on dialup because they are geek gods. If they just lived in Altoona (or Ann Arbor) and delivered pizzas they could get cable service, but they can live anywhere they want and still work, so they go someplace nice.
Personally I like mountains and oceans, but dragging a few thousand miles of coax behind you is a bitch. The bounce to the bird is irrelevant for downloads and uploads (you only experience the lag once), but a bitch for real time interaction.
The geekiest people may well be the people with the worst internet service.
KFG
Gees. I gotta disagree, here.
I think the essential point that you're missing here is that your opinion doesn't count.
Only the opinion of the guy who has a pile of resumes and a trash can is relevant.
KFG
(some might say arbitrary)
In a certain sense, yes the process is arbitrary, and frankly most of the process is bullshit. Nobody really cares where you want to be in five years. They just ask that question because they have to ask questions and don't know what else to ask.
Here's the deal, and you can read it all over Spolsky's piece:
You get hired because they like you, or at least dislike you less than the other candidates.
That's it. You're a Cubs fan. The candidate is a Cubs fan. Something stupid like that. It's a matter of "vibes." You're just not allowed to admit that officially in these ultra uptight egalitarian times when everyone is supposed to be equal as a human being.
Resumes and qualifications are tools used to eliminate candidates, not hire them. You can't make your resume "grab 'em" except in the negative sense. Then the basic purpose of an interview is to find out who you want to hire. As in, "Do I like this guy," or, yes it happens, "Nice tits."
It's kinda arbitrary.
Unless, of course, you've got the best tits.
KFG
You still obviously don't know what hiberation is.
I've already stipulated that I was arguing semantics. The reason I'm arguing semantics is because it's a semantic issue. You can't refer me to the technical definition of "hibernate" (which in theory would end the argument right there), because there isn't one. The term is only contextual within a certain enviroment since different "people" (vendors, developers, whatever)all define it slightly differently.
That's why I was asking the troll for the defintion. I didn't tell him he was a moron for his defintion.
The WinTel/Windows XP context (the explicit context in which we're having this discussion), so far as I can determine, defines hibernating as saving state to disk and then shutting down.
I'm perfectly willing to except that definition and it's the one I've been using all along.
And whether a hibernating machine can be turned of is irrelevant. The only thing at issue here is whether it is turned off. And the answer to that is not necessarily.
My premise, my only premise, is that a Windows machine that is put into hibernation mode strictly through software (and the front panel switch is a software switch, one that is not capable of disconecting power to the machine) may be drawing power and the way to reduce power usage to a minimum is to turn it off. To disconnect it from the source of power. Use a breaker switch. Pull the plug. Dike off the hot wire. Whatever.
Now with regards to laptops on commercial flights it is illegal to have a laptop turned on during takeoffs and landings. Again, they don't care about the definition of hibernate. They care about the definition of off. If you shut down/hibernate the computer from the shut down menu or by closing the lid there is nothing to prevent the device from receiving and sending radio signals during takeoff and landing because it may still be powered.
So, let me again restate my premise (which makes no reference to hibernation) and see if you have any problem with it:
If you want your Windows XP Media Center PC to use the minimum amount of power possible, turn it off. Turn off the monitor too while you're at it.
KFG
It looks like you'll fit nicely into Orkut's demographic, though! ;-)
If Orkut's demographic is people who won't go there, I guess so.
It's going to be a mighty quiet place though.
KFG
If that's true, then a PC that is truly "Shut Down" also may still be drawing current and providing functionality.
When you turn off your VCR is it not still visibly drawing current and providing functionality? Does it not change it's state if you physically disconnect it from the power source? Does it not behave in an anomolous fashion when reconnected to the source of power because some function was interupted?
You could easily add such a visible current draw device to your ATX computer. When you shut down from the front panel button or the shutdown menu the device would stay lit by drawing line power. Depending on how your computer is configured you may already have such a current draw display device. Shut down normally, walk around to the back of the machine, see if the NIC light went out.If your NIC light is not on first configure your compter so that it stays on when you shut down.
Now throw the breaker switch on the system (either on the power supply, UPS or power strip).
The little light goes out. Because it is no longer drawing power. Because the computer is physically disconnected from the power source. Reconnect the breaker, the little light comes back on. All of this while the computer is shut down.
When you shut down an ATX computer all power is shut down except that from a 5 volt connection. That 5 volt connection can, and is, used to power all sorts of things, such as the programable button on the front of the case (through the motherboard), or the NIC, or in some rarer cases even a cooling fan that keeps going after the computer shuts down.
Have you never read a vendor warning to pull the plug or turn the machine off with the power supply breaker switch before performing certain hardward tasks?
Shut down means shut down, an OS function (which by using ACPI can control some power funtions). It does not mean "turned off."
What happens when you shut down Windows on a non ACPI computer?
Most modern electronic devices are softswitched and the only way to reduce their current draw to 0 is turn them off, i.e. physically disconnect them from the power source by pulling the plug or installing an inline breaker switch in the power cord (most easily done by using a power strip). You may find this inconvienient, however, since they have certain functionality that depends on drawing power continuously.
I'd hazzard a guess that a Windows XP Media Center PC and attendant devices draw enough power to light the room while switched off and shut down and the beige box alone could be used to power nightlight if you wished.
It's live.
KFG
Did not the previous story end with a plea for an invitation?
What is the first thing a child does when you tell them they can't do something?
Don't people buy Tommy Hilfiger jackets?
Q.E.D.
KFG
The only time I wave a flag is when I'm in international or foreign waters. If I do not I am officially outlaw.
:)
I always resent doing so. I find flags and what they stand for repulsive. Flag waving is Fascism (following the flag, as in a Roman military unit).
Perhaps you are mistaking my priciples of individual liberty and independence (and thus an aversion to socialism in certain cases) to be right wing American patriotism.
If so, sir, the mistake is yours.
Either that or you're just trolling me and I've been had.
KFG
Cribs is interesting if you're into architecture and interior decorating. The chief problem with Cribs is that the majority of celebs they cover are the sort that throw a lot of money and bad taste at the problem. Still, watching Cribs is roughly analogous to looking at a finished program, which can have its points of interest.
I prefer While You Were Out/Trading Spaces.
Now this is serious hacking under pressure, right down to the construction of custom furniture on the spot. It's amazing what you can do with a little paint and MDF and I've seen a number of interesting ideas.
But I'll note that I don't pay any attention to their working enviroment, ya know, the trailer and the specific tools and how they lay them out and stuff.
I'm looking at their output.
It's the algorithm I'm interested in, not how they typed it.
Your milage may vary.
KFG
I do not quite agree there, dear sir.
Ah, well, in the matter of what I have been curious about I find I must fall back on argument by authoritity. Your disagreement is nullified.
. . . a copulation ad infinitum contrary to the foul wench that is your petridish.
There are laws against that sort of thing you know? Not to mention the fact that I now have the vague feeling that I'm supposed to slap your face and challange you to a duel.
I'll have to discuss that matter with my petri dish I suppose and find out what the foul wench thinks about the matter.
Between the two of us she's the most cultured.
KFG
>Don't sell him short just because he's mostly >evil...
>>The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
>>An evil soul producing holy witness
>>Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
>>A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
>>O what a goodly outside falsehood hath!
Troll it may or may not be, but it is also the most pertinent (Having logical precise relevance to the matter at hand) observation ever penned by man.
KFG
Have you ever been curious about what someone else's computing environment looks like?
No. No I have not. I have been so not curious that the very question takes me aback.
Is this something like "Geeks Uncensored" or the "Weekly Geek News"? What's the favorite programing language of the Bat Boy anyway? Are we going to see Linus throwing his jacket over his monitor as the paparazzi descend upon him?
What a peculiar concept.
KFG
When I was 5 or so it was still possible to walk through a well to do household and not see any plastic other than some knobs on appliances. Any rubber goods would be natural rubber mixed with carbon.
Unless you looked in the toy box. There you would find the familiar green plastic army men and plastic dolls. I still have the truck and cannon that came with the army men I received for my first birthday (sentimental value. They're the only birthday present I ever received from my father).
But the familiar Lego building brick had not quite made it to the new world yet and my mother had entered college before they were invented.
My grandparents predate cellophane. Think about that. One of my uncles was taught to fly by Orville Wright. We've come a long, long way within the living memory of some (although not, alas, of my aforementioned relatives).
KFG
Don't sell him short just because he's mostly evil...
The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O what a goodly outside falsehood hath!
KFG
Yes, this is the way it usually works.
If you steal millions from widows and orphans and then endow an orphanage you are a great man and a philanthropist.
If you dedicate your life to directly aiding widows and orphans you're a bum who never amounted to anything.
It really doesn't take too much reading of history to discover that this principle is almost invariable.
Or you can just take the shortcut and read Mark Twain's essays.
KFG
Well, to run with your Germany thing for a bit, I'm afraid I rather see Gates as having created "wealth" in the same manner that Trebant did.
It certainly created a lot of jobs for mechanics.
KFG
I thought people like Gates were what they invented the MBE for. Prosperous tradesman who wished to purchase a bit of upscale chic, but who you'd never want to think of in the same class as a "Sir."
KFG
No, I'm not sure it's proper to say that cause and effect would be violated. They would exchange places creating an "antiphysics," the most critical part of which would be the Anti-Second Law of Thermodynamics.
:)
However, what that would do is violate the Priciple of Covariance. The laws of physics would be variable with one's frame of reference.
Since it was the Principle of Covariance that led inevitably to the Theory of Relativity (or the Theory of Invariants, as Einstein prefered); and since the Theory of Relativity has withstood considerable test, one may reasonably assume that the covariance hypothesis has also withstood test.
I'm afraid I've always considered superluminal phenomenoa being treated as a mere issue of cause and effect to be a bit of a dumbing down of the subject.
KFG