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Boot Windows Faster, Using Linux
BiOFH writes "TechNewsWorld is reporting that InterVideo has a solution for slow boot times runing Windows XP MCE. 'The new Linux-based InstantOn software -- designed to help Windows XP Media Center Edition PCs boot more quickly -- is aimed at taking advantage of the power of Intel's Pentium processors, not at fixing fragmented hard drives. The software integrates into the computer's BIOS and the operating system.'" According to this article, the software uses a small Linux partition on the user's hard drive. I wonder how BIOSes with hard-wired Microsoft-based DRM would cooperate with this scheme.
It doesn't make Windows boot faster. It's just a stripped-down version of Linux which of course is going to boot faster because it provides far less functionality. If you want to get to full Windows, you'll have to wait out the remainder of the boot process you interrupted.
Any CD-based Linux distro can achieve the a similar effect with far more functionality.
It boots Linux faster, offering a choice of several entertainment related programs, as well as the choice to boot windows, which takes as long as usual.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
What About the old "Don't load programs you don't need to load at startup"? Prefetcher tweakage. (yay for bootvis) Killing ad / spyware, tweaking services? My XP boot fairly quick (if I *enter* out of my 30sec countdown from my Xp bootloader asking me if I want Linux Or windows today.) Who doesn't know that isn't very likely to install a seperate Linux partition just to boot quicker?
Sounds like they are using LinuxBIOS plus some apps for the quick boot option.
Now, the question is, will Joe User start asking himself "Why can't EVERYTHING run this quickly?", and will the companies start realizing that everything CAN, IF they port their stuff to Linux?
(NOTE: Obviously there is one company that is unlikely to take this action, but perhaps others might.)
Of course, there is always the option of embedding Windows into the system ROM as well.
(shudder)
www.eFax.com are spammers
Which is what I thought when I read the writeup. It is actually a minimal media-distro designed to boot quickly. To do windows stuff, you still have to wait for windows start time.
====
Crudely Drawn Games
It's for users who don't know computers and just want a device they can turn on and have work. It's only OEM, so power users will have a hard time getting their hands on it.
It's very misleading, it actually boots at the same amount of time as it usually does.
--- any post that takes longer than 20 seconds to write, isn't worth writing
You're supposed to leave the MCE on so it can record shows. I don't understand how InterVideo plans to make a dime off this stupid idea.
Here it is!
F000:E05B call check_for_linux
F000:E061 jc do_error_beep_and_halt
F000:E063 nop
F000:E064 nop
F000:E065 nop
F000:E066 int 19
All kidding aside... I write BIOS code for a living, and this scares the crap out of me. What Microsoft wants is to basically eliminate the BIOS, except for the jump to the OS code (the "int 19" above). Windows already does just about everything that we do in the BIOS, like PCI device enumeration, etc...
No doubt, this would make Microsoft's life a lot more simple, but I think it would give them too much control -- way too much. DRM would just be the start of it.
I wonder what the EFI proponents (Intel) think about this deal...
Anti-slash: In sacred jihad against slashdot
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Windows Media Center is meant to be a TiVo clone. In order for it to record the shows you want, you need to leave it up at all time. This stripped-down Linux just isn't going to make the cut... the proper mode of operation is to simply avoid rebooting by leaving it always-up.
I have an amd64 msi board which took 25 sec. just to show the grub prompt ...
.. guess what, i dont put in new Hardware every time i power it on!
...
Everytime the stupid bios checks the whole system if there is new Hardware, oh and of course every sata or raid controller have to do the same
I wish there would be a fast option which just save your settings one time and when you dont boot with a special key it just skips all the rubbish i dont care about.
troll? maybe
... if all of a sudden, as the company believes that most users inclined to use PCs as entertainment machines in their living rooms are accessing those machines mainly for entertainment-related functions, consumers buying these machines never see a need to actually boot into the Windows Media Center. Could we eventually see Media Center as an optional and pay-for add on?
Does media center edition not have hibernate? I doubt you can get a boot time much faster than a restore from hibernate.
Meanwhile, my shiny new RHEL 3.0 box isn't mounting NFS filesystems on boot because the network hasn't finished initializing yet. Apparently it takes the network about 30 seconds to come up. Wonder if that's a gigE thing. :(
Someone should really ask them when LinDVD will be launched to the public. It sounds like a more stable player than Xine/VLC/Ogle/mplayer
Seems to work, they've had it shipping on IBM Linux Laptops for a while.
http://videoqt.agoride.com/qtv2//h1297.mov
Who does it more than twice a year? Oh wait... this is Windows. Nevermind.
How would this help?
When the PC is hibernated, it comes back up much much faster than a normal boot. Most PC/laptops on market have had support for hibernation for a while. Except when necessary, why not get rid of a complete boot process and just stick to hibernation? It's no Instant On, but a lot better than a complete reboot!
"I'll take Irony for $1000, Alex."
Someone you trust is one of us.
i never turn off my windows box anyway, it takes too long to logout, and also to shutdown, so i just keep it on all the time and then it reboots whenever it feels like (when it crashes)
--- any post that takes longer than 20 seconds to write, isn't worth writing
The solution to the long boot time problem isn't quicker boots, it's getting rid of the need to boot or reboot! Think about it, Handheld devices are designed so that they don't need regular reboots. Embedded devices are the same way. My Tivo takes forever to boot up, much longer than my laptop running Windows or Linux, but it doesn't bother me because the only time I reboot it is when it's moved! The solution to these issues is not faster on time, it's always on! This is where Linux has a big lead too, even though WinXP is much better than 9x in terms of stability it still can't beat Linux when measuring stability in weeks and months...
I don't understand. Will this make Counter-Strike run faster? The damn faggots keep pwning me!
Is everything about Microsoft's DRM? Really, now, is it?
There was a project a while back to take a snapshot of a boot state then load this snapshot directly into memory. Any modern harddrive can move the 40M or so in a few seconds. The sticking points were mainly due to hardware that needed initialization and some OS design issues (beyond my understanding, but had to do with how control is passed to the operating system). If not for these issues, the machine could boot completely in seconds.
THe writters of the article couldn't even spell my hometown right, it's not Freemont it's Fremont!
Wait a minute this smells like an innovation and we all know only MS can bring innovation to the marketplace. I think they have an exclusive license from SCO.
Jebus. This doesnt boot MCE faster. Rather it uses Linux for some media operations.. but still boots MCE for other things. Timmy You make the most mistakes in posting. You post more dupes, and wrong descriptions then anyone else. Please stay in your chair.. and fondle your joystick.. and keep all your comments to saying only your own name. The world .. and slashdot will be a better place.
...they throw in that snide, gratuitous dig at "MS BIOS DRM" even though it doesn't even exist yet, let alone implemented in anyone's PC yet.
but I think that anything Linux-based right now is not really going to hit the main stream. Maybe in a couple years but not now. I know there are a lot a young people who are computer users, but mostly its us 30-45 year olds who are stuck on windows and we make up a huge segment of the user population. Its going to be really hard to get us to change our ways, even more so for people who are even older. change is scary. though its nice when its free.
This has to be one of the most misleading articles, and even more misleading /. blurbs I have ever seen. This software has nothing to do with Windows. It's a stripped down version of Linux that has basic media center programs. It "integrates" with the BIOS by "booting" like every other operating system.
Stop reposting from ASCII Art Farts, you unoriginal queef.
I wonder how BIOSes with hard-wired Microsoft-based DRM would cooperate with this scheme.
At the time of writing - I suspect all of them.
I RTFA!
How does it boot in ten seconds? I suspect parallel init scripts.. I realize it wouldn't need alot of services... but heck, ten seconds is still awfully short to run X and a few tiny apps.
Seriously, the next distro to have parallel init, is the distro I am sold to... no functionality would be more essential than booting in less than 20seconds to me.
My recollection is that Windows boot times first started getting bad (WFW booted pretty fast comparatively) when publications like CNet were bending over backwards (or was it the other way) to show how much faster Office was than competing products. The benchmarking consisted of: (1) boot both systems, (2) start timers, (3) start application, (4) start benchmark series, (5) end application, (6) stop timers.
Lo, and behold, more and more initialization work for Office, and then IE, started showing up in the Windows boot sequence.
Merging applications into the OS is BAD DESIGN, but it won the poorly thought out benchmarks that many organizations used to select their "productivity" tools. Now Windows, and Windows users will pay the price. Serves them right.
Sure, leave your Windows machines running 24/7 to avoid the boot delay. Linux and OS X users have that option too, but for them it is truly an option, not something they NEED to do.
What the hell are they taking about?
My XPMCE boots faster than any OS I have ever seen.
I rarely have to reboot. But when I do, it takes less than 30 seconds to boot my machine.
Well, linux may be good for many things, but my notebooks with its slow 4500rpm disk boots Windows xp 10 seconds faster than my main pc Linux->Kde from a raid with 128MB hardware cache. (and no, there arent tons of unused services running, both are the standart instalations (suse 9.0 ftp install, windows xp home).
(counting only after bios, because the raid controller adds 10-15 secs which the OS cant change).
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Stability and having to re-boot to install *certain* software packages have nothing to do with each other. Yes, the need to re-boot for certain installs is a weak point for Windows, but that's not the same thing as stability.
It's understandable that many here do not like Windows. But many people also understand that certain applications don't run on Linux, nor have *nix equivalents. We who must use these apps are stuck with Windows. But the need to re-boot is not the same as instability, and indeed many Windows machines have up-times that rival the average Linux server. It's true.
By the way, it it "instability" that after making changes in a Linux configuration, you often have to re-start services?
Harp on some other point that makes more sense.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
1) My XPMCE laptop boots in about 20-30 seconds, much faster than my XP Pro desktop or SuSE 9 desktop.
2) Does it really matter? I mean, in the home environment (I hope to god our corporations aren't stupid enough to buy MCEs for workstations) what is 45 seconds at maximum to wait for the computer to boot. If you REALLY need your computer to boot that fast then just put it into standby or hibernation - both options are excellent and give you almost instant gratification. Standby in my MCE laptop takes about 1.5 seconds to get up and running and coming back from hibernation takes about 5-6 seconds.
Every dealt with the Power On Self Test of Sun systems? My E3500 takes minutes to get to loading the kernel, because it has to check all eight processors, all 32M/cache, and all 4G/ram.
That 25 seconds is a blessing.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
You should use Suspend, because the scheduler can wake the machine up out of suspend mode to record a show you have scheduled. It can't wake the machine up from Hibernate.
The only downside is the screen is very small so if you're at all far sighted, it's hard to read. Not a problem for her so she's happy.
If you really want to boot Windows XP fast, configure your BIOS to do a suspend to RAM on sleep. When you hibernate XP, the computer will be completely off (except for a tiny current for self-refreshing the DRAMS). From this state, booting will take only about 5s. And all programs you had previously running will still be there. Even music will continue playing where it left off.
The only drawback is: if you lose power, the DRAMS will be cleared. That could be solved by a UPS or maybe some built-in battery.
If MS was to start producing BIOSes, which Im sure they could do, they would have to maintain compatability with the existing BIOSes of the world.
There are pleanty of things that are not MS OSs that use the BIOS. Ghost. PXE. DOS before Netware (do they still do this?). Recovery CDs. And of course the OSS OSs.
I have no idea how much the license for something like Phoenix BIOS costs. Less then a dollar per mobo, Im sure. Lets say that MS starts giving away their BIOS: How many PC hardware manufacturers are going to switch, to save pennies, at the risk of no longer making PC hardware? The hardware world has settled on using industry standards a long time ago. Not even MS can change that.
That is nothing new... with Linux I accelerated Windows to 9.8 m/s^2
>>Sounds like they are using LinuxBIOS plus some apps for the quick boot option.
What makes you think that? Just because they use Linux as part of their project does not mean they're necessarily using LinuxBIOS.
Besides, if they are then where's the source code? There is that little issue about the GPL...
Anyone has any tips/URLs about starting Linux faster?
I hit the power button on mine, and I'm not even clear of the bios for 3-4 seconds. Then my hard disk controller takes a couple of seconds to 'see' what is connected.
And then we hit Windows.
Why is this a problem? Well, we're talking about a mostly-electronic system. Electrons, flying around at speeds somewhat incomprehensible to the average human brain, able to go from A to B to C to D hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of times a second. Yet we are talking fractions of MINUTES to get a computer into a usable state.
Bizarre.. I must be missing something fundamental. Either that or I've read too much Sci-Fi and haven't gotten used to how primitive this planet really is.
I didn't RTFA (of course) but upon reading the headline it ocurred to me that if such a thing can be done... could Linux be used to bypass (maybe even break!) said MS DRM features on the hardware level?
I'm no OS coder, or kernel hacker, so I ask... could it be possible?
I wish I could filter out the annoying Pickens articles...
Just remind yourself that Slashdot isn't journalism and doesn't need to be held to such standards. Really, it's nothing more than a community blog. Slashdot is a business and to get people to visit the site, they basically troll and wait for comments. Personally, I'm fine with that as usually some comments are more interesting than the actual article.
O.K.
LostCluster (625375):
" Then, everybody insists on loading at startup in Linux... and everything comes crashing down again."
Uhhh... no. Linux stability is on par with Unix and much better than Windows. Especially a profesionally done distro. I run Gentoo with a lot of beta programs and it still has better stability than Windows.
DrLZRDMN (728996):
"Yeah, if you have an eight gig ROM."
I think the original poster said this as a joke for windows, which would take many megabytes of flash or EEPROM. For Linux, you really just need to skip bios and load the kernel. Once you load the kernel, you start all your processes and then start the X windowing system (or directFB or whatever). So you really just need to put the kernel into ROM. Also, you can put a stripped down kernel and load modules when you need them. It is completely possible to fit the kernel in 1M of flash or EEPROM.
DeathPenguin (449875):
"What makes you think that? Just because they use Linux as part of their project does not mean they're necessarily using LinuxBIOS [sourceforge.net].
Besides, if they are then where's the source code? There is that little issue about the GPL..."
O.K. Here I am speculating. However, I thought that the way they got LinuxBIOS to work was to adapt a BSD boot loader. In which case it still might be BSD liscenced. Or maybe the took the original BSD boot loader and made their own modifications too it. I might be completely off base on this last one.
n/t
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
How about a Linux image small enough to act as the BIOS firmware, which runs Windows as a process, and a watchdog process that restarts a new Windows image when a Windows heartbeat process heartbeat stops? Enough CORBA/COM+ IPC work with an event rollback queue might keep Windows app state persistent across Windows restarts, so crashes would be momentary pauses in continuity. Redundant sync'd servers delivering restart attempts to a single client GUI via VNC might actually present an apparently crashproof Windows environment. And that platform would be an advantageous config from which to migrate to a 100% Linux environment, gradually eradicating vestiges of the Windows virus.
--
make install -not war
Agree on the developing thing. It is a ritual at our workplace. Especially with multiple programs being debugged simultaneously.
(necessary for the full system)
Next thing you will do is say that it should be connected to the internet!
Windoze is lucky to get more than a day of uptime, especially when you run media applications on it. The only way to run a windoze computer is to turn it off at night so it won't crash and burn as much durring the day and firewall the hell out if it.
You can see where it's going. Using Linux to load an "up" image into RAM and turn control over to it is a great idea. That way, you can be sure the stupid thing booted right when you wake up and go to work. The approach can be used for any situation you need windoze drivers to make your hardware work. Microsoft will, of course, do everything they can to prevent this and anyone dumb enought to still be trying to make things work with them will get burnt.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
and everything will run faster, safer, and smoother.
Just an idea...
...afraid of a strange mix of both Microsoft and Penguin.
Shall I run and gather like minded fellows with torches and pitchforks to rout the monster? Or just sit here and continue to drink beer... warily.
I can attest to this. I used Linux to boot Windows right off my PC!
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Last time that I was using an Apple Powerbook, it seemd to boot nearly instantly. How are they doing this? Parrell int scripts? I have tried to emulate this through using Hibernate, but it still takes 10+ seconds to get to a working state.
[blue] - The Ministry of Information approved this message...
-1, FAGGOT
Yours Truly,
Darl McBride
What's the point when Windows XP already boots in under 10 seconds on modern hardware?
Seems not to be clear enough among the commoners (many of you ...slashdot guys... too).
I'd love a windows XP compile that doesnt have the system restore, double up of DLL files, registry, 1 hour instal/setup time.
I've lots of programs that keep their settings in their own dir and I just run opera.exe and browser windows, login sessions (cookies), history, favourites, menu config, skin everything is right there.
Keep it at d:\programs\opera and I can format c:\ no need to "export" settings and cookies with "file transfer wizard." http://jooh.no/prog_winxp.html
Teasing the nobles, and rightfully so!
"For my next trick, I will boot MacOS faster, using AmigaDOS!"
Once upon a time, someone (Perry Kivolowitz, I think) figured out a way to get the Amiga's ramdisk device to survive a restart with its contents intact. Like probably everyone else who discovered this trick, I immediately set about figuring out a way to get my Amiga to boot from its own ram disk, just because it was such an unbelievably goofy thing to want to do. It was pretty neat to be able to hit Control-Amiga-Amiga and have the whole computer reboot in a matter of seconds.
For a time, I also had one of those Emplant Mac-ona-stick cards for my Amiga. The Emplant cards were well-known for being able to run Mac apps faster than an equivalently-CPU'ed Mac (even while also running Amiga apps at the same time), thanks to the Amiga's coprocessors. Perhaps if I had set up my ramdisk-based boot sequence to immediately fire up Finder on the Emplant, that trick could have worked.
Alas, the Emplant card was the sole computer casualty of my last move, thereby sparing me from spending a truly ridiculous amount of time firing up my old A3000 just to see. Maybe I'll just do something useful instead, like my taxes, or building a working jet engine out of Lego bricks.
Similar in idea, new motherboards just came out in Japan using etBIOS. Letting PCs to play CD/DVDs, browse the net, etc. even before they boot up. No HDD is needed, though that probably means persistent storage is not available. (Can't save the all the p0rn you find nor bookmark the site :-) )
You don't have to sit there and wait for it to shut down, silly!
By using the native Linux file system, and an efficient set of appropriate drivers for mapping to X, etc., I found they made Windows run much faster than Windows could on bare hardware, including boot times.
It's so deliciously ironic, using Linux to make Windows boot or run faster than otherwise possible.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
At least 3 windows xp security updates released within the last 90 days have required reboots.
I wonder how BIOSes with hard-wired Microsoft-based DRM would cooperate with this scheme.
By instanly sending a message to the Department of Homeland Security. Since you are violating Microsoft's Digital Rights, you must be doing something to subvert U.S. security.
And no, there are no network drops in the cells at Guantanamo.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
I thought EFI was Microsoft's implementation of BIOS. They just picked a well known hardware vendor to introduce their plan.
http://www.intel.com/technology/efi/efi.htm
you wouldn't need full blown X hell...
Could we please, please use commas? They're vital for combatting ambiguity. Never using commas in sentences is like never using parentheses in math equations...
A Guide to turning off Windows File Protection. Most of the time, the only reason you need to reboot is for windows to replace a protected file. Once you tell Winblows that its okay to replace it, you can update all day every day and not have to restart your boxen. Pretty groovey right?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
... check out Win 3.11 from Microsoft. Sooo fast!
Get your car though rush hour trafic by riding your bike to work.
Bastards!
using Linux in this way makes me feel so dirty...ugh..get chills thinkin about it
nothing.can.stop.me.now
"Given that these "supporters" were more interested in getting drunk and laid (I walked in on 3 sexual encounters. One of which I was invited to participate)"
Well, what happened? Are you going to post the pix?
+5, unverified lie to make Linux look better.
I can't believe the shit you people mod up. At least pretend to have some objectivity.