Only if you have the attitude that "If perfection can not be achieved we shouldn't bother striving for it." Another wrong only leads us further away from a peaceful society towards the vigilante style societies of our past. By your model if I consider what your posting as "wrong," I have the right to seek vengence to "right" it. Only by treating others how we WISH to be treated, and not by how they treat us first, is our society going to advance. Will we ever achieve 100% of people doing it? No, but that doesn't mean that it's a dumb thing to do.
Very fine words, and an admirable solution to the problem. But, you're fogetting that the poster is doing war with a grumpy old man. They give no quarter! Compromise is not something anyone that age understands!
AMD has not made a friend of this customer. They would have to beg me to stick with them now. They will truely have to beat Intel on price/performance AND overclockability
Overclocking is something that I would never consider for a server that was mission critical. We're talking apples and oranges here. You're looking for desktop performance, I'm looking at server performance, all that comes along with trying to power and cool a room full of servers, while keeping the customers happy.
The boxes we were using were Dual Xeon 2.8GHz servers, 4G of DDR RAM, and 4 x 73G 15K SCSI disks in a 0+1 RAID array. We had 3 of those servers running like that.
The new Dual Opteron server is 2 x model 252s, with 8G of DDR RAM (4G per proc), using node-interleaving memory configuration, with 6 x 73G 15K SCSI disks in a RAID 0+1 array, with 2 x 73G 10K SCSI disks mirrored for binlogs.
Our application for MySQL is an ASP app, with each customer having their own database. So, there was no replication between the servers, each server had a unique data set specific to that client.
The new setup is able to handle all of those databases on just the one server.
The datasets combined, on disk, consume slightly more than 70G of data. So the databases are quite large, and we are not storing BLOBs in any of the tables.
I don't claim to be the best hardware guy out there, but I do keep a fairly close eye on my datacenter, and I can tell you that there was a noticable difference in power usage and heat output from that rack when we switched to the AMD system.
People are forgetting though that its not just desktop CPUs that AMD took such large pieces of marketshare away from Intel.
There have been a few benchmarks (I believe one was on Anandtech's site) that have shown Intel Xeons running in 64bit mode performed slower than the same processor running in 32bit mode. Now, I know, we're talking about copying larger data segments around, because the address space is larger, so a bit of a slowdown in some areas are expected. But when they're talking 5% slower, thats a bit.
We replaced 3 Dual Intel Xeon servers (2.8GHz Xeons) with 4G of RAM each, with a single AMD Dual Opteron server, running in 64bit mode for MySQL. This system is immensely faster than the old Xeon systems. MySQL shows upto 23% performance increases in SELECT commands on 64bit vs 32bit on the AMD. On the Intel, it was a performance loss.
As far as heat output, the air coming out the back of this server feels cooler, not to mention that it replaced 3 servers with one.
People need to focus on the server market, and not the desktop market to see the real king in the (x86) CPU wars. Lets not forget hypertransport, and seperate data paths for memory and IO, whereas the Xeon has a shared 800MHz FSB (now 1066 with the newer rendition).
I can't wait for us to have a black president, so you damn assholes who keep blaming our government for being racist can't keep playing that card every damn time something hurts the black population.
The 18th Amendment? When will people learn you cannot control, 100%, the activities of people. You can suppress it, you can stifle it, but you cannot eradicate it. The only thing politicians do, is bring contempt from all people for these proposals.
Do you think its the population that is against online gambling, or the states, because they're not getting a piece of the pie?
I would be willing to bet that the law you just quoted has an exemption to for the owner of the private property.. I can clearly see that being illegal if I was video taping my neighbor getting naked in her window, and she doesn't know I'm there, nor gave me permission.
I keep hearing people putting down PHP. It's not the only interpreted language. I also hear of Python being the best thing in the toolbox.
Seems to me that if you can put your personal bias aside then just about everything can be run with some form of an interpreted language playing a core component of the overall application. After all, isn't HTML/Javascript considered interpreted?
Seems a recently posted slashdot story is in order for this: http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/0 6/06/0451239 Allow me to quote from the article: "BASIC has become the leading cause of brain-damage in proto-hackers...As it is, it ruins thousands of potential wizards a year."
When I develop content for my personal web page, I usually turn to PHP, as its quick, easy to code in, and I can build fairly complete web sites easily. When I need system administration stuff done, I write bash scripts to accomplish the task.
There is no personal bias here agaist PHP or interpreted languages - I just strongly feel that it doesn't belong in the enterprise, especially when you're talking healthcare, and people's lives are on the line. And I do agree with the other article that interpreted languages hold back decent programmers from becoming great programmers.
But I can get feedback on my applications performance as I write it making it less error prone and easier (IMHO) to debug.
I feel that gdb and a core file are a great way to debug, so once again, a difference of opinion.
He just said that it worked for him, who are you to tell him it doesn't?
I believe this topic was in reference to the story about native coding vs. interpreted languages. Which asked specifically, " Is it time to jump in the boat of interpreted/JIT compiled languages?"
So, was I telling HIM it didn't work? No. Was I voicing my opinion about interpreted languages for the benefit of the slashdot community? Yes... Why does every damn poster on slashdot always have to jump down someone else's throat, and think that every post is a personal attack?
So, in the spirit of the original topic, I stand by my opinion (happy now, I clearly said its an opinion!), that those languages are not ready for the volume enterprise computing requires.
hmm, the warehouse I work on has multiple databases with billions of rows in them, can hit insert rates of 100,000 rows a second, can experience 60,000 queries/hour - many of which are trending data over 13 months, has hundreds of users. Many of these users are allowed to directly hit some of the databases with whatever query tool they want. Scans of a hundred million rows at a time aren't uncommon (though seldom happen more than a few dozen times a day).
This app is completely written in korn shell, python, php and sql (db2). Looks like Ruby is also coming into the picture now, will probably supplant much of the php in order to improve manageablity.
You just hit queries per hour, what our software hits in 12 seconds. We average 5,000 queries a second, for a large EMR (Electronic Medical Record) application, with approximately 4,000 users. Our software is web based, written in C, using MySQL as the backend. We're currently sitting at 16T of storage as well, with a growth of 2G per day of new data.
PHP has its places - extremely large, mission critical applications are not one of them.
This used to irritate me so much when I was under 18. It still irritates me, because no where in the constitution does it say anywhere, "these rights are only applicable to those 18 years old or older".
What I find amusing is that a lot of emperors of China, etc, in centuries past were 13 years old. Somehow, recently, we decided an individual is too stupid to think for themselves until they turn 18.
I think most can agree on here, age is no determining factor for intelligence - look at our politicians - most of them are in their 40s, and still brain dead.
If Google News is going to be unbiased then they need to list all views, even those the staff at Google does not agree with. Anything else reduces the value of their service.BR> Ah, you've just defined the basis for true freedom - the ability to have expression, even if others don't agree with it.
And in the case of stamps, you can pay more to get better service (overnight, 1st class v. Parcel Post, etc.)
Ah, but you're missing something here. If I pay for overnight service, my parcel goes on a jet, and flies overnight to its destination. If I pay for ground, my parcel gets stuck in a depot until there is enough stuff going towards my parcel's destination to make it worth sending it all.
Thus, my postage paid for different means of transit, with each means being a different cost for the carrier (jet fuel - with a smaller number of packages, or diesel for a whole truckload of crap). This is not the case with telco - the same backbone lines carry my fast DS3 at the office, and my measly dial-up at home. It costs the carrier nothing more to send either bit of data. They are doing nothing but being greedy bastards, as their expense is the same either way.
Who's views does this represent? Not mine. Not anyone's I talk to. Who do these politicians think they are? No one wants this shit, except those in power. Its time we take back what is rightfully ours - our government.
Considering it's from Microsoft (you said Exchange web interface, right?), I'm sure Microsoft implemented a slew of hacks to have Firefox compliance (Microsoft is well known for improper web developing practices, to put it lightly).
I would not doubt Microsoft employs people, who's only job is to make sure their web based products DON'T work with anything except IE. Lets not forget Front Page generates broken code, which IE knows how to render correctly. I've never seen anything except IE work with the crappy Exchange Web Interface.
Don't buy their crap. There has been practically NO new music that I want to listen to, let alone pay for. If they want to try to redesign our definition of 'copyright' laws, and fair use laws, then let them. I don't NEED to have their product to live, or to enjoy life.
Obviously you're American, which is why you have the "we're better than the EU" snobbish attitude that most Americans have towards their "decadent" cousins in the EU. Too bad your opinion isn't backed by fact.
I'm glad you're man enough to reply as Anonymous. I'm sorry my dialog upset you. Apparently you think so highly of yourself, you can't see your own faults. Anoniminity being one of them.
Americans conveniently overlook the fact that Europeans have chosen to be a bit more socialist in their economic policies in order to build kinder and gentler societies. Just compare the crime rates between the USA and Europe. The Europeans have largely succeeded.
I'm sorry, but that is complete BS. London's violent crime rates are worse than ANY part of the United States. All of our crime put together is less, on average, than London's violent crimes. Thats ALL of our crime vs just London's violent.
Scotland's violent crime rate is more than double the US's.
Seems many people jumped all over your "lower crime rate" BS, and posted several sites stating statistics, like this one
Obviously you're European, which is why you have the "we're better than the US" snobbish attitude that most European's have towards their "brutish" cousins in the US. Too bad your opinion isn't backed by fact.
What a waste of my tax dollars. You know, if those homes can't afford a new TV to pick up digital signals, than I say we keep analog broadcast alive, and only broadcast things like PBS, educational programs, and the news. That way, these people can keep learning something, and keep up to date on the world, and maybe better themselves.
Seriously, if you're that stinking poor, you need to be learning something to improve your life. Reruns of Seinfield are not going to help.
From the article: There would still, of course, be ways that you could access your bank or e-commerce accounts from other computers when you were traveling, but the connection wouldnt be as secure as using your own computer.
I see two options here: A) Don't even bother with the TPM, because the "old ways" (you know, usernames and passwords) are still needed, or B) Lets just get it over with and install the damn chips in us. Why should they exist in our computers? Then we have to take the computers with us to tell the other computers we are who we claim to be (with our computer vouching for us, of course). If the bloody things are in us, there won't be any need to lug around our desktop when we travel. We can just have them read the chip from our forhead...
Slashdot Mirror
We need a moderation category of "sad", rather than funny. That post was most definitely sad.
Only if you have the attitude that "If perfection can not be achieved we shouldn't bother striving for it." Another wrong only leads us further away from a peaceful society towards the vigilante style societies of our past. By your model if I consider what your posting as "wrong," I have the right to seek vengence to "right" it. Only by treating others how we WISH to be treated, and not by how they treat us first, is our society going to advance. Will we ever achieve 100% of people doing it? No, but that doesn't mean that it's a dumb thing to do.
Very fine words, and an admirable solution to the problem. But, you're fogetting that the poster is doing war with a grumpy old man. They give no quarter! Compromise is not something anyone that age understands!
AMD has not made a friend of this customer. They would have to beg me to stick with them now. They will truely have to beat Intel on price/performance AND overclockability
Overclocking is something that I would never consider for a server that was mission critical. We're talking apples and oranges here. You're looking for desktop performance, I'm looking at server performance, all that comes along with trying to power and cool a room full of servers, while keeping the customers happy.
Sorry if my post was too vague earlier.
The boxes we were using were Dual Xeon 2.8GHz servers, 4G of DDR RAM, and 4 x 73G 15K SCSI disks in a 0+1 RAID array. We had 3 of those servers running like that.
The new Dual Opteron server is 2 x model 252s, with 8G of DDR RAM (4G per proc), using node-interleaving memory configuration, with 6 x 73G 15K SCSI disks in a RAID 0+1 array, with 2 x 73G 10K SCSI disks mirrored for binlogs.
Our application for MySQL is an ASP app, with each customer having their own database. So, there was no replication between the servers, each server had a unique data set specific to that client.
The new setup is able to handle all of those databases on just the one server.
The datasets combined, on disk, consume slightly more than 70G of data. So the databases are quite large, and we are not storing BLOBs in any of the tables.
I don't claim to be the best hardware guy out there, but I do keep a fairly close eye on my datacenter, and I can tell you that there was a noticable difference in power usage and heat output from that rack when we switched to the AMD system.
People are forgetting though that its not just desktop CPUs that AMD took such large pieces of marketshare away from Intel.
There have been a few benchmarks (I believe one was on Anandtech's site) that have shown Intel Xeons running in 64bit mode performed slower than the same processor running in 32bit mode. Now, I know, we're talking about copying larger data segments around, because the address space is larger, so a bit of a slowdown in some areas are expected. But when they're talking 5% slower, thats a bit.
We replaced 3 Dual Intel Xeon servers (2.8GHz Xeons) with 4G of RAM each, with a single AMD Dual Opteron server, running in 64bit mode for MySQL. This system is immensely faster than the old Xeon systems. MySQL shows upto 23% performance increases in SELECT commands on 64bit vs 32bit on the AMD. On the Intel, it was a performance loss.
As far as heat output, the air coming out the back of this server feels cooler, not to mention that it replaced 3 servers with one.
People need to focus on the server market, and not the desktop market to see the real king in the (x86) CPU wars. Lets not forget hypertransport, and seperate data paths for memory and IO, whereas the Xeon has a shared 800MHz FSB (now 1066 with the newer rendition).
Just like it sorted out Katrina?
I can't wait for us to have a black president, so you damn assholes who keep blaming our government for being racist can't keep playing that card every damn time something hurts the black population.
The 18th Amendment? When will people learn you cannot control, 100%, the activities of people. You can suppress it, you can stifle it, but you cannot eradicate it. The only thing politicians do, is bring contempt from all people for these proposals.
Do you think its the population that is against online gambling, or the states, because they're not getting a piece of the pie?
Won't be long, and we'll all be using newsspeak too.
I would be willing to bet that the law you just quoted has an exemption to for the owner of the private property.. I can clearly see that being illegal if I was video taping my neighbor getting naked in her window, and she doesn't know I'm there, nor gave me permission.
I keep hearing people putting down PHP. It's not the only interpreted language. I also hear of Python being the best thing in the toolbox.
0 6/06/0451239
Seems to me that if you can put your personal bias aside then just about everything can be run with some form of an interpreted language playing a core component of the overall application. After all, isn't HTML/Javascript considered interpreted?
Seems a recently posted slashdot story is in order for this: http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/
Allow me to quote from the article: "BASIC has become the leading cause of brain-damage in proto-hackers...As it is, it ruins thousands of potential wizards a year."
When I develop content for my personal web page, I usually turn to PHP, as its quick, easy to code in, and I can build fairly complete web sites easily. When I need system administration stuff done, I write bash scripts to accomplish the task.
There is no personal bias here agaist PHP or interpreted languages - I just strongly feel that it doesn't belong in the enterprise, especially when you're talking healthcare, and people's lives are on the line. And I do agree with the other article that interpreted languages hold back decent programmers from becoming great programmers.
But I can get feedback on my applications performance as I write it making it less error prone and easier (IMHO) to debug.
I feel that gdb and a core file are a great way to debug, so once again, a difference of opinion.
M.
He just said that it worked for him, who are you to tell him it doesn't?
I believe this topic was in reference to the story about native coding vs. interpreted languages. Which asked specifically, " Is it time to jump in the boat of interpreted/JIT compiled languages?"
So, was I telling HIM it didn't work? No. Was I voicing my opinion about interpreted languages for the benefit of the slashdot community? Yes... Why does every damn poster on slashdot always have to jump down someone else's throat, and think that every post is a personal attack?
So, in the spirit of the original topic, I stand by my opinion (happy now, I clearly said its an opinion!), that those languages are not ready for the volume enterprise computing requires.
hmm, the warehouse I work on has multiple databases with billions of rows in them, can hit insert rates of 100,000 rows a second, can experience 60,000 queries/hour - many of which are trending data over 13 months, has hundreds of users. Many of these users are allowed to directly hit some of the databases with whatever query tool they want. Scans of a hundred million rows at a time aren't uncommon (though seldom happen more than a few dozen times a day).
This app is completely written in korn shell, python, php and sql (db2). Looks like Ruby is also coming into the picture now, will probably supplant much of the php in order to improve manageablity.
You just hit queries per hour, what our software hits in 12 seconds. We average 5,000 queries a second, for a large EMR (Electronic Medical Record) application, with approximately 4,000 users. Our software is web based, written in C, using MySQL as the backend. We're currently sitting at 16T of storage as well, with a growth of 2G per day of new data.
PHP has its places - extremely large, mission critical applications are not one of them.
but children have no rights. Oh well.
This used to irritate me so much when I was under 18. It still irritates me, because no where in the constitution does it say anywhere, "these rights are only applicable to those 18 years old or older".
What I find amusing is that a lot of emperors of China, etc, in centuries past were 13 years old. Somehow, recently, we decided an individual is too stupid to think for themselves until they turn 18.
I think most can agree on here, age is no determining factor for intelligence - look at our politicians - most of them are in their 40s, and still brain dead.
If Google News is going to be unbiased then they need to list all views, even those the staff at Google does not agree with. Anything else reduces the value of their service.BR>
Ah, you've just defined the basis for true freedom - the ability to have expression, even if others don't agree with it.
And in the case of stamps, you can pay more to get better service (overnight, 1st class v. Parcel Post, etc.)
Ah, but you're missing something here. If I pay for overnight service, my parcel goes on a jet, and flies overnight to its destination. If I pay for ground, my parcel gets stuck in a depot until there is enough stuff going towards my parcel's destination to make it worth sending it all.
Thus, my postage paid for different means of transit, with each means being a different cost for the carrier (jet fuel - with a smaller number of packages, or diesel for a whole truckload of crap). This is not the case with telco - the same backbone lines carry my fast DS3 at the office, and my measly dial-up at home. It costs the carrier nothing more to send either bit of data. They are doing nothing but being greedy bastards, as their expense is the same either way.
Who's views does this represent? Not mine. Not anyone's I talk to. Who do these politicians think they are? No one wants this shit, except those in power. Its time we take back what is rightfully ours - our government.
realising you're incompetent doesn't make you competent, it just means you're not ignorant to your incompetence.
Yes, but usually, when you're not ignorant of your incompetence, your demeanor tends to be more civil.
Considering it's from Microsoft (you said Exchange web interface, right?), I'm sure Microsoft implemented a slew of hacks to have Firefox compliance (Microsoft is well known for improper web developing practices, to put it lightly).
I would not doubt Microsoft employs people, who's only job is to make sure their web based products DON'T work with anything except IE. Lets not forget Front Page generates broken code, which IE knows how to render correctly. I've never seen anything except IE work with the crappy Exchange Web Interface.
Like we should rename New Jersey to New China.
Like any good slashdotter, I have my complaints with Microsoft too, but this is getting out of hand. Active Directory? WTF are they thinking?
1st post!
Don't buy their crap. There has been practically NO new music that I want to listen to, let alone pay for. If they want to try to redesign our definition of 'copyright' laws, and fair use laws, then let them. I don't NEED to have their product to live, or to enjoy life.
Obviously you're American, which is why you have the "we're better than the EU" snobbish attitude that most Americans have towards their "decadent" cousins in the EU. Too bad your opinion isn't backed by fact.
I'm glad you're man enough to reply as Anonymous. I'm sorry my dialog upset you. Apparently you think so highly of yourself, you can't see your own faults. Anoniminity being one of them.
Americans conveniently overlook the fact that Europeans have chosen to be a bit more socialist in their economic policies in order to build kinder and gentler societies. Just compare the crime rates between the USA and Europe. The Europeans have largely succeeded.
I'm sorry, but that is complete BS. London's violent crime rates are worse than ANY part of the United States. All of our crime put together is less, on average, than London's violent crimes. Thats ALL of our crime vs just London's violent.
Scotland's violent crime rate is more than double the US's.
Seems many people jumped all over your "lower crime rate" BS, and posted several sites stating statistics, like this one
Obviously you're European, which is why you have the "we're better than the US" snobbish attitude that most European's have towards their "brutish" cousins in the US. Too bad your opinion isn't backed by fact.
What a waste of my tax dollars. You know, if those homes can't afford a new TV to pick up digital signals, than I say we keep analog broadcast alive, and only broadcast things like PBS, educational programs, and the news. That way, these people can keep learning something, and keep up to date on the world, and maybe better themselves.
Seriously, if you're that stinking poor, you need to be learning something to improve your life. Reruns of Seinfield are not going to help.
From the article: There would still, of course, be ways that you could access your bank or e-commerce accounts from other computers when you were traveling, but the connection wouldnt be as secure as using your own computer.
I see two options here: A) Don't even bother with the TPM, because the "old ways" (you know, usernames and passwords) are still needed, or B) Lets just get it over with and install the damn chips in us. Why should they exist in our computers? Then we have to take the computers with us to tell the other computers we are who we claim to be (with our computer vouching for us, of course). If the bloody things are in us, there won't be any need to lug around our desktop when we travel. We can just have them read the chip from our forhead...