From what they wanted to charge us... keep in mind this is two year old information.
And yes I know that CE runs on more than x86, but keep in mind the most mature boxes (and we were looking to license and produce someone else's design at the time) were x86 based. Either which way the numbers didn't work out... and I am not the average slashdotter.
Although I skimmed the article it should be noted that they try to view cost of development as an issue as well as speed. If one hires the right staff, one can still design the right code on Linux in about the same time frame...
I used to work for a startup and our main concern with using Linux was its "freedom" and its cost in the final product. MS always forgets that when people are designing sub $100 hardware for set-top terminals and such they want full capabilities in the hardware but they can't be paying a $15 license for each box. In this role, x86 processors are also too expensive. We had a LuxSonor based design and went with a proprietary OS vendor at the time, but we were already considering PowerPC and Linux for future products.
One must make sure that whatever hardware they are buying has a copy of the OS with it...backed up several times preferably. It's pretty easy to back up IOS images... I'm not so sure about the NetApp.
That way there is no issue when you buy or sell the item. If the customer wants support or updates... they have to pay for them... of course they may be hit with a re-license issue, but honestly you can still tell the company to f* off.
The other poster who was talking about first sale has a very good bit of bargaining ammunition...as for the Cisco rep who made the other guy pay after the fact I would have also told that guy to f*** off. The hardware comes with an IOS image and the customer doesn't have to buy support from Cisco... they just won't get any new IOS images or help from Cisco.
Re:some interesting applications
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The diabetic idea is good... the weight one stupid. Weight issues are caused by a lot more than blood sugar levels...
I think the ideal application is an electronic pancreas. It uses the power generated to monitor blood sugar levels internally and power pumps and scrubbers to take in what it needs to scrub the blood when needed. You supplement your sugar by eating more when levels fall too low. It could be tuned to function in the same manner as a human pancreas
We all know what's going on. The people who really need to read this sort of paper are the PHBs-- the sort of people who would believe the latest Gartner Group rubbish stating that Linux should be avoided...
What do you mean the latest rubbish?... Everything that comes out of the Gartner Group is rubbish. I've learned the secret to success in the IT field... do the opposite of what Gartner recommends.
I am not a member of IT in my company... though heaven knows I should be... I work for a support organization and I'm a field service engineer (but not part of corporate IT), and they (IT) get in our way all the time...which is amazing considering they have no on-site personnel (3000 miles away in CA) and their only domain controller is an underspec PPro 200 with 128MB of RAM running Windows 2000 AS (yes it is always out of memory and functionally useless).
As part of my job I set up the office G4 (OS X...which they thought was Linux... probably because of Smb) for training... I am in charge of Apple desktop support for our largest client in the area, an HP 9000 D class for my support of the 9000's in the data center (24/7 on-call), a Windows 2000 AS box for training (Citrix Metaframe XP, etc.) and the box I interface it all with... my Powerbook Pismo. I was told to shutdown and remove these from the network... they have a point about security holes and unauthorized access points...but I kind of chuckle because their infrastructure is very poorly built and my machines are 10 x as secure as theirs (case in point I run only SSHd for the most part and lock down everything)
They decided to send us a switch and give us an external IP... (IP only after bitching that a lab environment is useless without an internet connection) which is fine except we can't use the local printers... so instead I built a NetBSD firewall and put everything us techs use behind it and then configured it to never respond to any outside services nor pings. So yes I have unofficial non-Windows and technically oriented OS's... and I had Gentoo Linux on my last laptop... but I probably don't count because I am an admin just not by job this time around (I've been director of IT before)
Are you also a member of the cued speech community?
My brother was one of the first single channel implant kids. He now has a 22. It definitely changed his life for the better, however, he still has problems fitting in now that he is trying to hold a stable job and find love in his life... he often turns to love overseas and this has led to disastrous results... (in context of course)... and he doesn't seem to learn his lesson because he still doesn't try hard enough with people in his own country (little patience)... his last girlfriend who he married recently and is now divorcing is quite physically and mentally abusive
On the other hand he was able to complete schooling on or above grade level for his entire school time due to the fact that English was his first language.
Did anyone stop to think about the fact that all the poor people whose livelihoods depend on the movie industry making money make their money before the movie is even pirateable?... I.e. they get mostly paid up front... it's the long-term residuals they might not get and most of that goes to the cartel. Oooh boo hoo they might decide to make one less crappy movie a year... either way the public benefits.
> I bet Visual Basic code runs reel fast on this baby
Visual Basic, fast? Oh god, please...someone mod the parent up as funny, he/she deserves it:-)
Indeed... MS finally admits future technology will contain cheese....this certainly would be a quantum leap in computing...I can't wait till I can run SETI@Home on a block of cheddar or colby...then of course we'd have to come up with a cooling system because that would be really nasty on a hot day.
This box -- i.e. even future inexpensive ones are really designed to be Itanium and Xeon killers in addition to Sparc killers. They're basically going to be priced in the 3G-10G range for quite a lot of 64 bit computing muscle and the ability to run AIX. When you outgrow them you can move to POWER4+ on pSeries quite smoothly. A trusted and proven architecture.
These are basically this generation's Alphas... but with a better market positioning and without Digital/Compaq/HP at the helm. (we all know their pilot is dead at the wheel)
Please punch a hole in the president you don't want.......I can't the butterfly presidents confuse me....I accidentally shot Pat Buchanan... oh wait accidental?...er.... so that's why they call that talking heads show Crossfire
Yeah, I've always said Apple is the ferrari, Microsoft is a Prowler (kinda cool looking, but suck at actual performance) and Linux is the Honda civic with random kanzi to make it go fast.
Apple isn't really a Ferrari... it's A. Not overpriced that way B. Not that fragile (see Fix it again Tony)
Apple is sort of like a nice Porsche... strong German engineering... not the priciest of sports cars... good all around performance
Windows is kind of a Cadillac Escalade... Big, Bloated, got some bling... but really goofy looking and totally unnecessary
Linux is any number of vehicles depending on configuration... from extremely simple and useful to bloated and falling apart...
There's nothing to really distinguish Macs from other Mac clones. Oh that's right, that's because there are no Mac clones. That's why Macs are $3000 and PCs are $500.
Not really... clones were gutting the market anyway but they are a separate issue. x86 machines are $3000 too... and for a few less features overall as well (gigE standard, Airport built-in, PCI-X (coming), Serial ATA (coming) etc.). $500 x86 machines are made from the absolute cheapest and worst parts someone can slap together. I can't in any good consicence call them computers. Macs are actually only $3000 if you buy the most expensive G5. Most Apple hardware is in the $1500-2500 range.
Because Apple spends many many R&D dollars in making their entire system work together beautifully. They are in control of the entire set of hardware components and the logic board architecture... They also are dealing with processors that are incredibly energy efficient and take up a lot less real estate in silicon. Couple this with Steve Jobs' urge to put everything in the box on a tiny overengineered scale, and add in the lack of legacy ports and you get a much finer design. Also... Toshiba is lazy and isn't really trying hard... as all PC makers are... lazy and complacent... nothing new happens in the x86 world... a PC is a PC is a PC... there is nothing to distinguish one box from another.
scox claims ownership to *BSD, just the same as linux. according to scox, both works are derived from unix, and scox owns unix. therefore, according to scox, linux and bsd users owe royalties to scox.
Not really. The USL vs. BSD case blew that one away long ago.
Both Apple and Dell are guilty of using misleading prices. For example, Apple gives the price of the low-end G5 as "$1999", and the high-end G5 as "$2999". In other words, they have subtracted $1 from a $3000 computer to make it seem cheaper, which is absolutely ridiculous. This demonstrates that both Apple and Dell are willing to mislead people when stating their prices.
It's important that Apple raised the price of the bottom of the line and lowered the top price... so we have $1799->1999, and 3499-->2999.... What is your problem?... the Dual 2G machine is a whole lot of machine in that config for 3G's.... a comparable PC is still just a plain old PC by comparison... another thing to note is the bang for the buck... for a neat 3G you get a dual 2G 64 bit workstation with a 1G FSB, Serial ATA (something that is still extremely expensive), 512 MB RAM (capable of 8GB... only a Sunblade 2000 competes with this right now and not on the end-user level), PCI-X, extremely quiet and easy to work on, the option of a great graphics card in the 9800 for professional work, no - cost GigE, and optical audio... it's the sheer number of things you get and how well they are sewn together that makes that a steal even if the number is high.
What the G5 does is introduce a much cleaner and more elegant platform overall than x86. I think it will be some time before the Mac will catch up in raw speed on the few things that directly compare... but... WHO FSCKING CARES!
Speed really isn't everything... in fact it's not even something I consider as valid for touting x86. x86 is one of the most unelegant and uninspired architectures, is positively ancient, and is nearing the end of what can be wrung out of it performance-wise.... and to what end?... what will need to happen is Intel will need to develop an Itanium 3 that runs 32 bit x86 code full speed, is 64 bit ready, and costs consumer prices... with the arrival of the G5 and x86-64 later this year they will be on thin ice.
But most people bash the Mac because they aren't mac users and never will be... people use the Mac for the "Mac experience"... you cannot get this experience on any other platform..though you may come close with NeXT black hardware. (What is OS X based on?... *hint*) People complain about price (those aren't mac customers... they are not important to the platform)...they complain on raw speed (go buy a gaming PC).... they complain when not enough apps are OS X compatible (now this is a huge and legitimate complaint... though it's less the case now that we're up to 10.2)...they complain that the Apple design is falling behind PC's in overall performance (legitimate... and addressed by the G5...they have nowhere to go but up now...the gap narrows... and narrows enough)
If they're gonna make the Finder brushed metal then they have to go all the way and make all menus including the system menu brushed metal... then it would look fine.
I say do either or but not both.
they're migrating towards brushed metal because the new G5's are brushed metal... the old G4's and G3's were pinstripe.
Slashdot Mirror
I'd so want an anti-SCO shirt if they either had a big IBM labelled St. Bernard or a Penguin tipping over and peeing on the SCO Tree logo.
Lets gets some cool Shirts dammit.
From what they wanted to charge us... keep in mind this is two year old information.
And yes I know that CE runs on more than x86, but keep in mind the most mature boxes (and we were looking to license and produce someone else's design at the time) were x86 based. Either which way the numbers didn't work out... and I am not the average slashdotter.
Although I skimmed the article it should be noted that they try to view cost of development as an issue as well as speed. If one hires the right staff, one can still design the right code on Linux in about the same time frame...
I used to work for a startup and our main concern with using Linux was its "freedom" and its cost in the final product. MS always forgets that when people are designing sub $100 hardware for set-top terminals and such they want full capabilities in the hardware but they can't be paying a $15 license for each box. In this role, x86 processors are also too expensive. We had a LuxSonor based design and went with a proprietary OS vendor at the time, but we were already considering PowerPC and Linux for future products.
One must make sure that whatever hardware they are buying has a copy of the OS with it...backed up several times preferably. It's pretty easy to back up IOS images... I'm not so sure about the NetApp.
... they have to pay for them... of course they may be hit with a re-license issue, but honestly you can still tell the company to f* off.
That way there is no issue when you buy or sell the item. If the customer wants support or updates
The other poster who was talking about first sale has a very good bit of bargaining ammunition...as for the Cisco rep who made the other guy pay after the fact I would have also told that guy to f*** off. The hardware comes with an IOS image and the customer doesn't have to buy support from Cisco... they just won't get any new IOS images or help from Cisco.
The diabetic idea is good... the weight one stupid. Weight issues are caused by a lot more than blood sugar levels...
I think the ideal application is an electronic pancreas. It uses the power generated to monitor blood sugar levels internally and power pumps and scrubbers to take in what it needs to scrub the blood when needed. You supplement your sugar by eating more when levels fall too low. It could be tuned to function in the same manner as a human pancreas
We all know what's going on. The people who really need to read this sort of paper are the PHBs-- the sort of people who would believe the latest Gartner Group rubbish stating that Linux should be avoided...
What do you mean the latest rubbish?... Everything that comes out of the Gartner Group is rubbish. I've learned the secret to success in the IT field... do the opposite of what Gartner recommends.
I am not a member of IT in my company... though heaven knows I should be... I work for a support organization and I'm a field service engineer (but not part of corporate IT), and they (IT) get in our way all the time...which is amazing considering they have no on-site personnel (3000 miles away in CA) and their only domain controller is an underspec PPro 200 with 128MB of RAM running Windows 2000 AS (yes it is always out of memory and functionally useless).
As part of my job I set up the office G4 (OS X...which they thought was Linux... probably because of Smb) for training... I am in charge of Apple desktop support for our largest client in the area, an HP 9000 D class for my support of the 9000's in the data center (24/7 on-call), a Windows 2000 AS box for training (Citrix Metaframe XP, etc.) and the box I interface it all with... my Powerbook Pismo. I was told to shutdown and remove these from the network... they have a point about security holes and unauthorized access points...but I kind of chuckle because their infrastructure is very poorly built and my machines are 10 x as secure as theirs (case in point I run only SSHd for the most part and lock down everything)
They decided to send us a switch and give us an external IP... (IP only after bitching that a lab environment is useless without an internet connection) which is fine except we can't use the local printers... so instead I built a NetBSD firewall and put everything us techs use behind it and then configured it to never respond to any outside services nor pings. So yes I have unofficial non-Windows and technically oriented OS's... and I had Gentoo Linux on my last laptop... but I probably don't count because I am an admin just not by job this time around (I've been director of IT before)
Are you also a member of the cued speech community?
My brother was one of the first single channel implant kids. He now has a 22. It definitely changed his life for the better, however, he still has problems fitting in now that he is trying to hold a stable job and find love in his life... he often turns to love overseas and this has led to disastrous results... (in context of course)... and he doesn't seem to learn his lesson because he still doesn't try hard enough with people in his own country (little patience)... his last girlfriend who he married recently and is now divorcing is quite physically and mentally abusive
On the other hand he was able to complete schooling on or above grade level for his entire school time due to the fact that English was his first language.
Did anyone stop to think about the fact that all the poor people whose livelihoods depend on the movie industry making money make their money before the movie is even pirateable?... I.e. they get mostly paid up front... it's the long-term residuals they might not get and most of that goes to the cartel. Oooh boo hoo they might decide to make one less crappy movie a year... either way the public benefits.
> Windows Longhorn woth its cool 3D UI
:-)
Lost you there. Oh, oh, MacOS X. Gotcha, sorry.
> I bet Visual Basic code runs reel fast on this baby
Visual Basic, fast? Oh god, please...someone mod the parent up as funny, he/she deserves it
Indeed... MS finally admits future technology will contain cheese....this certainly would be a quantum leap in computing...I can't wait till I can run SETI@Home on a block of cheddar or colby...then of course we'd have to come up with a cooling system because that would be really nasty on a hot day.
This box -- i.e. even future inexpensive ones are really designed to be Itanium and Xeon killers in addition to Sparc killers. They're basically going to be priced in the 3G-10G range for quite a lot of 64 bit computing muscle and the ability to run AIX. When you outgrow them you can move to POWER4+ on pSeries quite smoothly. A trusted and proven architecture.
These are basically this generation's Alphas... but with a better market positioning and without Digital/Compaq/HP at the helm. (we all know their pilot is dead at the wheel)
and then they'll turn around and offer two things...
Cheaper Unixware licenses than Linux
Free migration programs from Linux to Unixware
Because SPAM makes him hungry.
Please punch a hole in the president you don't want.... ...I can't the butterfly presidents confuse me....I accidentally shot Pat Buchanan... oh wait accidental?...er.... so that's why they call that talking heads show Crossfire
I think this one looks the coolest... anyone think it looks a little like those killer craft in Terminator 3?
Yeah, I've always said Apple is the ferrari, Microsoft is a Prowler (kinda cool looking, but suck at actual performance) and Linux is the Honda civic with random kanzi to make it go fast.
Apple isn't really a Ferrari... it's A. Not overpriced that way B. Not that fragile (see Fix it again Tony)
Apple is sort of like a nice Porsche... strong German engineering... not the priciest of sports cars... good all around performance
Windows is kind of a Cadillac Escalade... Big, Bloated, got some bling... but really goofy looking and totally unnecessary
Linux is any number of vehicles depending on configuration... from extremely simple and useful to bloated and falling apart...
There's nothing to really distinguish Macs from other Mac clones. Oh that's right, that's because there are no Mac clones. That's why Macs are $3000 and PCs are $500.
Not really... clones were gutting the market anyway but they are a separate issue. x86 machines are $3000 too... and for a few less features overall as well (gigE standard, Airport built-in, PCI-X (coming), Serial ATA (coming) etc.). $500 x86 machines are made from the absolute cheapest and worst parts someone can slap together. I can't in any good consicence call them computers. Macs are actually only $3000 if you buy the most expensive G5. Most Apple hardware is in the $1500-2500 range.
Man that thing looks like a healthy choice TV dinner container.
Because Apple spends many many R&D dollars in making their entire system work together beautifully. They are in control of the entire set of hardware components and the logic board architecture... They also are dealing with processors that are incredibly energy efficient and take up a lot less real estate in silicon. Couple this with Steve Jobs' urge to put everything in the box on a tiny overengineered scale, and add in the lack of legacy ports and you get a much finer design. Also ... Toshiba is lazy and isn't really trying hard... as all PC makers are... lazy and complacent... nothing new happens in the x86 world... a PC is a PC is a PC... there is nothing to distinguish one box from another.
Not really. The USL vs. BSD case blew that one away long ago.
Run 10.3 a 64 bit OS ... it will come out a month after the first machines ship. There's probably some tricks built-in to 10.2.7 as well.
It's important that Apple raised the price of the bottom of the line and lowered the top price... so we have $1799->1999, and 3499-->2999.... What is your problem?... the Dual 2G machine is a whole lot of machine in that config for 3G's.... a comparable PC is still just a plain old PC by comparison... another thing to note is the bang for the buck... for a neat 3G you get a dual 2G 64 bit workstation with a 1G FSB, Serial ATA (something that is still extremely expensive), 512 MB RAM (capable of 8GB... only a Sunblade 2000 competes with this right now and not on the end-user level), PCI-X, extremely quiet and easy to work on, the option of a great graphics card in the 9800 for professional work, no - cost GigE, and optical audio... it's the sheer number of things you get and how well they are sewn together that makes that a steal even if the number is high.
What the G5 does is introduce a much cleaner and more elegant platform overall than x86. I think it will be some time before the Mac will catch up in raw speed on the few things that directly compare... but... WHO FSCKING CARES!
Speed really isn't everything... in fact it's not even something I consider as valid for touting x86. x86 is one of the most unelegant and uninspired architectures, is positively ancient, and is nearing the end of what can be wrung out of it performance-wise.... and to what end?... what will need to happen is Intel will need to develop an Itanium 3 that runs 32 bit x86 code full speed, is 64 bit ready, and costs consumer prices... with the arrival of the G5 and x86-64 later this year they will be on thin ice.
But most people bash the Mac because they aren't mac users and never will be... people use the Mac for the "Mac experience"... you cannot get this experience on any other platform..though you may come close with NeXT black hardware. (What is OS X based on?... *hint*) People complain about price (those aren't mac customers... they are not important to the platform)...they complain on raw speed (go buy a gaming PC).... they complain when not enough apps are OS X compatible (now this is a huge and legitimate complaint... though it's less the case now that we're up to 10.2)...they complain that the Apple design is falling behind PC's in overall performance (legitimate... and addressed by the G5...they have nowhere to go but up now...the gap narrows... and narrows enough)
If they're gonna make the Finder brushed metal then they have to go all the way and make all menus including the system menu brushed metal... then it would look fine.
I say do either or but not both.
they're migrating towards brushed metal because the new G5's are brushed metal... the old G4's and G3's were pinstripe.
I think it goes more:
SCO= Chicken Hawk
Microsoft= Foghorn Leghorn
IBM= Dog