And I thought the reason I sat in front of a computer was to be productive, but I guess what really matters is "crushing the MS monopoly"... learn something new everyday.
I don't care what platform I run on as long as it is stable and has the apps that I need. That's what really matters, getting the stuff done that you need to get done. That is the reason why I've got a unix desktop and a windows desktop, I'm most proficient on my unix system, but there are no unix apps that hold a match to the productivity of using Visio, MS Office, etc on a windows system (and before you say it, I've got a Sun workstation so no wine for me, and besides that why would I want to use wine that has more stability issues than windows).
Your analogy also fails because you don't have any statement about limited resource. In my opinion an anology something along the lines of:
There are 20 seats on an amusement ride there is a line of 100 people waiting to get onto it. There are 19 people who refuse to get out of their seats and continue riding continuously, leaving only 1 seat to change between runs.
Whether you are on cable or dsl, there is a limited bandwidth portion, and if 90% is in use by 10% of the customers that means 90% of the rest of all customers have to fight over the remaining 10%.
Yes, lets really face some facts. The fact is that most people don't pay that much for bandwidth, but the ISP does. If one does some simple math of 100 customers downloading at T1 speeds paying $50/month, ISP gets $5k/month, how much do 2x T3's cost per month ($5k is about cost of maybe 4 commercial T1's) of course this is ignoring the rest of the infrastructure fees, wages, servers, etc) and that one only has to pay for bandwidth.
It's no wonder that there aren't any mom & pop ISP's around and that major players are falling like flies (how many DSL & cable providers have gone bankrupt the past year).
Linux has a bit more painfull way of doing it today, but you might check out the "Linux kernel crash dumps" page http://lkcd.sourceforge.net which was started by SGI to mimick how Irix does it's crash dump analysis, now it's got both IBM & SGI backing along with the rest of the OSS world on sourceforge.
>While the flood fill routing was a good scheme when NNTP was developed and the number of >nodes was small it is needlessly wasteful now that we have hundreds of thousands of NNTP >servers, it is just not necessary to have that level of redundancy to route arround censorship.
I don't think anybody is seriously thinking of having hundreds of thousands of NNTP servers for the purpose of getting around censorship. It's more of a way to minimize bandwidth, and works pretty much off the same principal as a cache server. It's main purpose has not changed much over the years bring the content closer to the end user who will want it. With the advent of broadband users pushing >1mb downloads from the a NNTP server, you want it as close as possible. Get 10-20 users downloading from an external usenet server simultaneously you tend to have big issues since instead of having on constant 1-3mb connection you might have a full T3's worth.
Nextel's i90c has ability to run java apps & download new apps. Yesterday I had minesweeper on my phone, then I installed paddleball onto my phone, with a quick download on my phone. The "cooler" games you actually have to purchase. They keep track of what you have purchased online, so if you had to uninstall something because you ran out of space, you can allways re-install it later, all via your phone.
http://www.nextel.com/kjavaapps/javaapps_index.s ht ml
Not a bad little phone, needs a bit longer standy time though
Here's a question to that, which I don't know the answer to, but seems rather interesting.
Here's what I'm mentally debating; let's say the GPL is struck down and invalidated, wouldn't that then mean that anyone distributing a derivative work would be in violation of the original creator's copyright? As you said the GPL no longer gives them right to create derivative work?
Now I'd imagine that most/all of the original coders probably wouldn't sue, but could they if they wanted to? Could someone sue Redhat for distributing their formerly GPL'd code out of spite (they could just say the license they were using is not valid anymore, so what defence would there be to being able to use the code).
Just doing a little musing... I'll let someone with more license knowledge debate the question, just throwing it out there.
If what the Discovery channel is correct, dumping is a very incorrect term. An asian buyer is purchasing all of the steel for reuse. Purchasing scrap metal is hardly what I'd call dumping. Unless you want to consider that the seller is actually dumping on me when I buy recycled paper.
There are millions of tons of steel that would be much better served being melted down and put back into good use, than to sit in a landfill, left to rust.
[humor hat] So I guess according to you when ever I buy something, the seller is actually dumping on me... yuck. [/humor hat]
I never said it was off topic, I said he was completely *WRONG*. It's like saying 2+2=5 should be modded interesting as a different mathematical approach. No, 2+2=5 is not interesting it's wrong; it would be interesting if it weren't completely wrong.
Again, for the reading impaired i.e. YOU
Poster states that wine is moving from GPL to BSD license
Article states that wine is moving from BSD style to LGPL
What more is there to state, he completely incorrectly stated the entire article. How much more wrong can you get? Do I need to send you a mp3 with me saying how wrong it is before you understand that there is offtopic, and then there is completely, totaly, absolutely, factually wrong.
You need to look at what this is targeted at. It's not really for hiding anything illegal, most large companies would have used some form of crypto (having used PGP's Outlook plugin, you can't get much easier). But more for everyday things that really appear harmless, that come back and bite you. Best example off the top of my head:
Microsoft subpoenaed Netscape for all those internal message board documents, saying how much better IE was than Netscape. Nothing illegal, but would have been great to be killed automatically, look at how much damage *legal* posts did.
Now, someone actually subpoenaing a couple emails of printed off is probably very little of a concern, when compared to possibly gigs & gigs of emails laying around that can be subpoenaed and gone through, that would not only include the couple of printed emails already, but possibly even more.
I look at it like security, just because the only truely safe system from network hackers is a unplugged system, doesn't mean I shouldn't throw in the towel and not secure the systems that are plugged in.
And you would say that list is only American because???? Are there some kind of access control on which country you can vote from? Nobody from anywhere else in the entire world has ever voted on the IMDB? So you last line should really read:
"Nope, No one has a memory when it comes to film"
What I find more interesting is, how much of a percentage does the non-US films make up of the top 250 films.... it's like what 5% total?
Try and use any 3rd party software out there. Pretty much the only one that is supported is RedHat, you could probably wedge it into any distro, but then it would no longer be supported.
i.e. Backup software, we backup 40+ terabytes, with Linux being 500g, only the big backup software is able to do what we need (direct san backups, etc.) Veritas/Legato/EDM pretty much only support RedHat. They often have only supported RedHat as clients.
i.e. Veritas released their Foundation Suite for RedHat Linux only at this point in time.
I've ran into lots of business software that is RedHat only. The only places that I don't really see RedHat, are small shops (100 servers) or very specialized shops (i.e. large cluster running their own everything, didn't even start with a distro).
The biggest thing with any system is it's administration. We install barely anything out of a RedHat install, our developers have to give us a reason why they might possibly need dbx on this specific box. A team of 6 people actually went though each and every RPM on the distro and tried to determine exactly what "had" to be installed, for each development/test/preprod/production system (that was not the most fun in the world). Our base load is about as secure a server as you can possibly get, out of any Linux distro right now; and still provide the same duties. Whether or not you still want it to call it a RedHat distro, could be debated (we put a bunch of our own RPM's into our base load, that add to and replace RedHat's RPMS)
In the US almost every single business out there is using RedHat when it comes to the distro. To put my money where my mouth is, the pretty much king of the Linux websites www.google.com, is using the RedHat distro. And according to your post, I guess Google falls into the don't have half a brain category.
From you are saying, it appears as if you are expecting your distro to protect you, just click and go (no thought behind, do I really need that app installed). With that type of attitude, you are just waiting to get killed with a break in.
If you actually look at the court papers, Elcomsoft was selling their software from servers located in the US, after you purchased it, you then downloaded it off of another server also located in the US; I believe from somewhere in Seatle, and possibly Maryland (just a bit too lazy to look it up just now, but feel free to verify). The government bought & downloaded software all from machines physically located in the US before they brought charges.
So it is very much a US type of thing, so I guess you could make an analogy of Amsterdam company imports pot into the US, and procedes to sell it out of their stores located in the US.
I think you've misunderstood what "fair use" is, it is meant for the owner of the media to be able to copy the original data incase of damage. Nowhere is disseminating the procedures on how to copy the data is part of fair use. It *only* means that if you make copies, never share them with anyone else, you can't be busted if you are caught with them (also have some library exclusions, etc.). It never says anywhere under fair use that the maker ever has to make it easy or even feasibly possible to make a copy, just that you can't be prosecuted for having a personal copy of the data.
So in fact the DMCA does NOT trample on fair use, the guy could muck with Aibo as much as he wanted, and if you figured out how to make copies of DVD's for yourself you could copy to your hearts content. What the DMCA prevents is the ability to share the knowledge of *how* to do things, which is completely different than fair use.
Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the DMCA, it paints with too wide of a brush; but it pains me greatly when people don't understand the items that they are arguing for/against.
You might want to checkout http://fairuse.stanford.edu/ it is an excellent site
So? My father was a Marine guard at the American embasy in Moscow during late 60's; back when it was a big fucking deal (i.e. Cuban Missle Crisis). Does that make you better or worse? Who actually gives a shit.
I wasn't arguing that free speach is something to be defended. Now if you actually look at my post you'll see that it's your parotting of the hundred posts previous to yours that parotted the hundred posts before them of the exact same phrases, that I dislike; you can think for yourself and say something original can't you (at least jumble up the words or something).
Note: Yes, my father was really an embasy guard (I am being truthful), of course he said that he did it because after doing a couple of years there you got to pretty much pick which embassy you wanted to go. He met my Swiss mother there who was a nanny for some diplomats, and well the rest is how you say history. So I have a very firm grasp as to defending this country, and have a very large fucking clue about it.
But there's installing software to do work which paid for the servers; and then there is installing software that actually is a detriment to the same servers trying to do work. It's almost the equivalent of seeing that your company has lot's of bandwidth free to their customer T3's and the servers aren't that loaded... why not put out our own free porn website.
"Suits" as you say should want to know every move you make on a production system, there deffinetly is a need for change control. Ebay supposedly used to run pretty free and open, and had frequent crashes & outages; they brought a guy in and put in proper procedures, change control, etc. and their reliability increased exponentially. It is a big pain in the ass, I'll be the first to admit it, but so is documentation, getting up from your desk to go pee, etc. but it *is* needed.
Again your example is flawed, arrest them if Thailand software pirates are selling their goods from running servers located in the US, when they come to the US.
As to your other point, that's why I gave a link to my previous post, so I didn't have to re-explain everything for the fifth time.
I'm sorry, but you and most of the rest of the Slashdot crowd don't seem to quite *get* the Sklyarov thing.
Elcomsoft's servers were located *in* the US, so they are under US law. Software was purchased & downloaded from servers located in the US, even though Elcomsoft is located in Russia. By doing business in the US they are bound by US laws, if they would have just kept their servers in Russia there wouldn't be an issue at all (other than Adobe trying to get Russia to do something). He would not have been arrested when he came to the US, because he as trademark (or copyright I can't remember which) would have been doing all transactions outside of the US. So it's more of an issue that you should know the laws of the country you are hosting your website physically at.
Check out my post in the last Sklyarov thread http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=25273&threshol d=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=2748291#2748372
Slashdot Mirror
Dear God... you're right we need to ban binocular's and opera glasses too, since the government could possibly use them to spy on you.
Hmm... reminds me of a certain CSS case about how there are bad uses for tech and good uses for the same tech.
Hmmm... that's an interesting thought.
And I thought the reason I sat in front of a computer was to be productive, but I guess what really matters is "crushing the MS monopoly"... learn something new everyday.
I don't care what platform I run on as long as it is stable and has the apps that I need. That's what really matters, getting the stuff done that you need to get done. That is the reason why I've got a unix desktop and a windows desktop, I'm most proficient on my unix system, but there are no unix apps that hold a match to the productivity of using Visio, MS Office, etc on a windows system (and before you say it, I've got a Sun workstation so no wine for me, and besides that why would I want to use wine that has more stability issues than windows).
Your analogy also fails because you don't have any statement about limited resource. In my opinion an anology something along the lines of:
There are 20 seats on an amusement ride there is a line of 100 people waiting to get onto it. There are 19 people who refuse to get out of their seats and continue riding continuously, leaving only 1 seat to change between runs.
Whether you are on cable or dsl, there is a limited bandwidth portion, and if 90% is in use by 10% of the customers that means 90% of the rest of all customers have to fight over the remaining 10%.
Yes, lets really face some facts. The fact is that most people don't pay that much for bandwidth, but the ISP does. If one does some simple math of 100 customers downloading at T1 speeds paying $50/month, ISP gets $5k/month, how much do 2x T3's cost per month ($5k is about cost of maybe 4 commercial T1's) of course this is ignoring the rest of the infrastructure fees, wages, servers, etc) and that one only has to pay for bandwidth.
It's no wonder that there aren't any mom & pop ISP's around and that major players are falling like flies (how many DSL & cable providers have gone bankrupt the past year).
If you go under the download and to experimental they have 2.4.17 available for testing.
My guess is that the VM change caused them a number of issues, since it has do some things with raw I/O, etc.
Linux has a bit more painfull way of doing it today, but you might check out the "Linux kernel crash dumps" page http://lkcd.sourceforge.net which was started by SGI to mimick how Irix does it's crash dump analysis, now it's got both IBM & SGI backing along with the rest of the OSS world on sourceforge.
>While the flood fill routing was a good scheme when NNTP was developed and the number of
>nodes was small it is needlessly wasteful now that we have hundreds of thousands of NNTP
>servers, it is just not necessary to have that level of redundancy to route arround censorship.
I don't think anybody is seriously thinking of having hundreds of thousands of NNTP servers for the purpose of getting around censorship. It's more of a way to minimize bandwidth, and works pretty much off the same principal as a cache server. It's main purpose has not changed much over the years bring the content closer to the end user who will want it. With the advent of broadband users pushing >1mb downloads from the a NNTP server, you want it as close as possible. Get 10-20 users downloading from an external usenet server simultaneously you tend to have big issues since instead of having on constant 1-3mb connection you might have a full T3's worth.
Nextel's i90c has ability to run java apps & download new apps. Yesterday I had minesweeper on my phone, then I installed paddleball onto my phone, with a quick download on my phone. The "cooler" games you actually have to purchase. They keep track of what you have purchased online, so if you had to uninstall something because you ran out of space, you can allways re-install it later, all via your phone.
s ht ml
http://www.nextel.com/kjavaapps/javaapps_index.
Not a bad little phone, needs a bit longer standy time though
Here's a question to that, which I don't know the answer to, but seems rather interesting.
Here's what I'm mentally debating; let's say the GPL is struck down and invalidated, wouldn't that then mean that anyone distributing a derivative work would be in violation of the original creator's copyright? As you said the GPL no longer gives them right to create derivative work?
Now I'd imagine that most/all of the original coders probably wouldn't sue, but could they if they wanted to? Could someone sue Redhat for distributing their formerly GPL'd code out of spite (they could just say the license they were using is not valid anymore, so what defence would there be to being able to use the code).
Just doing a little musing... I'll let someone with more license knowledge debate the question, just throwing it out there.
If what the Discovery channel is correct, dumping is a very incorrect term. An asian buyer is purchasing all of the steel for reuse. Purchasing scrap metal is hardly what I'd call dumping. Unless you want to consider that the seller is actually dumping on me when I buy recycled paper.
There are millions of tons of steel that would be much better served being melted down and put back into good use, than to sit in a landfill, left to rust.
[humor hat]
So I guess according to you when ever I buy something, the seller is actually dumping on me... yuck.
[/humor hat]
I never said it was off topic, I said he was completely *WRONG*. It's like saying 2+2=5 should be modded interesting as a different mathematical approach. No, 2+2=5 is not interesting it's wrong; it would be interesting if it weren't completely wrong.
Again, for the reading impaired i.e. YOU
Poster states that wine is moving from GPL to BSD license
Article states that wine is moving from BSD style to LGPL
What more is there to state, he completely incorrectly stated the entire article. How much more wrong can you get? Do I need to send you a mp3 with me saying how wrong it is before you understand that there is offtopic, and then there is completely, totaly, absolutely, factually wrong.
Modded Interesting??? Maybe you moderators ought to read the farkin article.
Parent poster's entire point is that Wine is moving from GPL to BSD
Article says that Wine is moving from BSD to lGPL
So I guess the only interesting part of the post was how wrong the parent was.
Any intelligent moderators want to *properly* moderate the completely inaccurate parent post?
You need to look at what this is targeted at. It's not really for hiding anything illegal, most large companies would have used some form of crypto (having used PGP's Outlook plugin, you can't get much easier). But more for everyday things that really appear harmless, that come back and bite you. Best example off the top of my head:
Microsoft subpoenaed Netscape for all those internal message board documents, saying how much better IE was than Netscape. Nothing illegal, but would have been great to be killed automatically, look at how much damage *legal* posts did.
Now, someone actually subpoenaing a couple emails of printed off is probably very little of a concern, when compared to possibly gigs & gigs of emails laying around that can be subpoenaed and gone through, that would not only include the couple of printed emails already, but possibly even more.
I look at it like security, just because the only truely safe system from network hackers is a unplugged system, doesn't mean I shouldn't throw in the towel and not secure the systems that are plugged in.
And you would say that list is only American because???? Are there some kind of access control on which country you can vote from? Nobody from anywhere else in the entire world has ever voted on the IMDB? So you last line should really read:
"Nope, No one has a memory when it comes to film"
What I find more interesting is, how much of a percentage does the non-US films make up of the top 250 films.... it's like what 5% total?
Try and use any 3rd party software out there. Pretty much the only one that is supported is RedHat, you could probably wedge it into any distro, but then it would no longer be supported.
i.e. Backup software, we backup 40+ terabytes, with Linux being 500g, only the big backup software is able to do what we need (direct san backups, etc.) Veritas/Legato/EDM pretty much only support RedHat. They often have only supported RedHat as clients.
i.e. Veritas released their Foundation Suite for RedHat Linux only at this point in time.
I've ran into lots of business software that is RedHat only. The only places that I don't really see RedHat, are small shops (100 servers) or very specialized shops (i.e. large cluster running their own everything, didn't even start with a distro).
The biggest thing with any system is it's administration. We install barely anything out of a RedHat install, our developers have to give us a reason why they might possibly need dbx on this specific box. A team of 6 people actually went though each and every RPM on the distro and tried to determine exactly what "had" to be installed, for each development/test/preprod/production system (that was not the most fun in the world). Our base load is about as secure a server as you can possibly get, out of any Linux distro right now; and still provide the same duties. Whether or not you still want it to call it a RedHat distro, could be debated (we put a bunch of our own RPM's into our base load, that add to and replace RedHat's RPMS)
In the US almost every single business out there is using RedHat when it comes to the distro. To put my money where my mouth is, the pretty much king of the Linux websites www.google.com, is using the RedHat distro. And according to your post, I guess Google falls into the don't have half a brain category.
From you are saying, it appears as if you are expecting your distro to protect you, just click and go (no thought behind, do I really need that app installed). With that type of attitude, you are just waiting to get killed with a break in.
I don't know if I'd call it an argument but more of a factual correction. But I guess that is the general gist of the facts.
If you actually look at the court papers, Elcomsoft was selling their software from servers located in the US, after you purchased it, you then downloaded it off of another server also located in the US; I believe from somewhere in Seatle, and possibly Maryland (just a bit too lazy to look it up just now, but feel free to verify). The government bought & downloaded software all from machines physically located in the US before they brought charges.
So it is very much a US type of thing, so I guess you could make an analogy of Amsterdam company imports pot into the US, and procedes to sell it out of their stores located in the US.
I think you've misunderstood what "fair use" is, it is meant for the owner of the media to be able to copy the original data incase of damage. Nowhere is disseminating the procedures on how to copy the data is part of fair use. It *only* means that if you make copies, never share them with anyone else, you can't be busted if you are caught with them (also have some library exclusions, etc.). It never says anywhere under fair use that the maker ever has to make it easy or even feasibly possible to make a copy, just that you can't be prosecuted for having a personal copy of the data.
So in fact the DMCA does NOT trample on fair use, the guy could muck with Aibo as much as he wanted, and if you figured out how to make copies of DVD's for yourself you could copy to your hearts content. What the DMCA prevents is the ability to share the knowledge of *how* to do things, which is completely different than fair use.
Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the DMCA, it paints with too wide of a brush; but it pains me greatly when people don't understand the items that they are arguing for/against.
You might want to checkout http://fairuse.stanford.edu/ it is an excellent site
So? My father was a Marine guard at the American embasy in Moscow during late 60's; back when it was a big fucking deal (i.e. Cuban Missle Crisis). Does that make you better or worse? Who actually gives a shit.
I wasn't arguing that free speach is something to be defended. Now if you actually look at my post you'll see that it's your parotting of the hundred posts previous to yours that parotted the hundred posts before them of the exact same phrases, that I dislike; you can think for yourself and say something original can't you (at least jumble up the words or something).
Note: Yes, my father was really an embasy guard (I am being truthful), of course he said that he did it because after doing a couple of years there you got to pretty much pick which embassy you wanted to go. He met my Swiss mother there who was a nanny for some diplomats, and well the rest is how you say history. So I have a very firm grasp as to defending this country, and have a very large fucking clue about it.
God, what was the point of that post? Watch me cut and paste comments posted a million time before on slashdot.
Same reason why IP6 hasn't been rolled out.
But there's installing software to do work which paid for the servers; and then there is installing software that actually is a detriment to the same servers trying to do work. It's almost the equivalent of seeing that your company has lot's of bandwidth free to their customer T3's and the servers aren't that loaded... why not put out our own free porn website.
"Suits" as you say should want to know every move you make on a production system, there deffinetly is a need for change control. Ebay supposedly used to run pretty free and open, and had frequent crashes & outages; they brought a guy in and put in proper procedures, change control, etc. and their reliability increased exponentially. It is a big pain in the ass, I'll be the first to admit it, but so is documentation, getting up from your desk to go pee, etc. but it *is* needed.
I call it the Alan Parson's Project
Again your example is flawed, arrest them if Thailand software pirates are selling their goods from running servers located in the US, when they come to the US.
As to your other point, that's why I gave a link to my previous post, so I didn't have to re-explain everything for the fifth time.
I'm sorry, but you and most of the rest of the Slashdot crowd don't seem to quite *get* the Sklyarov thing.
l d=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=2748291#2748372
Elcomsoft's servers were located *in* the US, so they are under US law. Software was purchased & downloaded from servers located in the US, even though Elcomsoft is located in Russia. By doing business in the US they are bound by US laws, if they would have just kept their servers in Russia there wouldn't be an issue at all (other than Adobe trying to get Russia to do something). He would not have been arrested when he came to the US, because he as trademark (or copyright I can't remember which) would have been doing all transactions outside of the US. So it's more of an issue that you should know the laws of the country you are hosting your website physically at.
Check out my post in the last Sklyarov thread http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=25273&thresho
Bag of bits, heck I've got a bucket I've been tossing bits into for years. For some reason it never seems to get full though.
Couldn't resist.