>I'd always assumed that there was a libGecko, libXUL , libMozMail etc. that Seamonkey, Thunderbird and Firefox all used to avoid duplicating effort. That doesn't seem to be the case, however (from my understanding now, anyway): they all seem to use their own, slightly different components.
This is the way development is structured for most of the development period. However, before a firefox/thunderbird realease (last time way before) a branch forks off and changes may be made to any of these components. Then when realeas time comes the whole tree minus mail is packed up for a firefox release and the whole tree minus the browser for a thunderbird release.
From what I understand this comes partly from a lack of package management on windows (and possibly OSX?). Where they don't want firefox to dpend on another istaller.
IMHO they really should install *versioned* libraries to C:\Program Files\Common Files\Mozilla.org (or/opt/mozilla.org) and then you can still have the files in two seperate isntallers but have one copy of code on the users PC.
There is no technical reason why galeon or epiphany couldn't have the gecko source included. The reasons are purely practical. Unlike camino or firefox they aren't hosted in the mozilal cvs, they are in the gnome cvs. And there is nothing about wrapping firefox or seamonkey that makes it slow. Thankfully seamonkey/firefox is modularized enough that they only needs to load a few components. as far as dependancies go, thay are gnome webbrowsers, complainging about gnome dependancies is like complaining that IE depends on MFC. In the end, dependancy on a standard frame work or libraries makes the projects easier to maintain and allows for far less code dupelication (unlike the firefox/thunderbird fiasco which on windows dupelicate all the way from glib and zlib up include nspr/nss all the way through the whole gecko engine). If you really wanted to you could hack togther a binary of galeon that is staically linked to most of those libs. Depending on these libraries also doesn't make it so you have to have or run metacity or gnome-panel or nautilus.
> You cannot just start working on the firefox/mozilla source. It is one bloated big piece of ????. I did not even manage to compile it without downloading pre-setup environments. It took years and years to build this monster, and it is very very hard to control.
That's a half truth. On all platforms it build like any piece of unix software quite easily (./configure; make; make install) On Windows it also build like any piice of Unix software, so you need to set up a Unix layer (cygwin) and get unix librarues (glib, libIDL), and you need to integrate the system's native compiler into this mess.
>After all, Red Hat is the de facto standard of all open source. Intel's compilers, Oracle and everything corporate is designed for it. Good luck installing not to mention running anything like that on other distributions.
If it were the defacto standard of all open source like you assert then we'd have problems running all sorts of OSS on anything other than red hat but that is not the case. I may have problems running soem closed source db, or a closed source compiler but that makes redhat teh defacto standerd of linux not of OSS. I'll continue to be happy running an OSS datbase and an OSS compiler on my generic OSS system.
$ grep -i backport ChangeLog-2.4.29
o [SCTP] Remove sk_xxx macros to be consistent with the rest of networking cod e and to avoid backporting issues.
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_LOG
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_dst
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_eui64
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_frag
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_hbh
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_ipv6header
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_multiport
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_rt
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6tables
o Backport of 2.6 fix to insert_vm_struct to make it return an error rather th an BUG()
o backport v2.6: Fix pty race condition
o Jason Baron: Backport v2.6 tty/ldisc locking fixes
o backport v2.6 fork/thread file descriptor race fix
o Tigran Aivazian: backport sigmatch() issue in microcode.c
o backport v2.6 largefile isofs fix
o [NETLINK]: Backport pid hashing changes from 2.6
o [libata] fix minor 2.6 backport problems
o Backport of the 0.30 forcedeth driver to 2.4. It's a new backport, starting from the 2.6 tree.
o Task name handling static copy v2.6 backport
o ricoh.h, mem0 wrong definition v2.6 backport
o DAC960 firmware/alpha backport from 2.6
o intermezzo, backport some fixes from 2.6
o intermezzo, backport some more fixes from 2.6
So which of these are break your driver?
And your customers shouldn't be using early 2.4/2.6 kernels because they have bugs and flaws up the wazoo, unless they themselves are guilty of backporting
Although its nice to say that your driver supports all 2.4 and 2.6 kernels, the trewth is that the driver doesn't need to support the oldest kernels of a stable series. Furthermore, if the kernel team hadn't backported the feature you want the driver would only work with 2.6 kernels period. So at least you have some 2.4 compatibilty.
This isn't such an issue if yoyu were migrating from 2.4.20-29 you wouldn't go to 2.6.0-7 you'd go for 8/9/10/11. Thre really isn't a feature gap because even though 2.6.0 is bigger than 2.4.29 it is from a parrellel branch. It was released much earlier than 2.4.29. You really shouldn't be going to a kernel that is significantly chronologiclly older. 2.4.29 is there for people who can't don't want to migrate to 2.6 series kernels. It would be much more chaotic and dangerous to drop the old kernel series as soon as a new one is released. Furthermore, 99% of backports are bug fixes and drivers.
I find that using a homogenous GTK+ desktop (gnome minus nautilus desktop (to boost speed) and plus goffice (faster than OO.o, plus uses native widgets)) the UI is far more predictiable that Windows. What do WMP, MS antiSpyware, MS Office, Windows Explorer, and Notepad have in common? Not the same widget set for sure. They all use different widgets.
> users aren't clamoring for consistency as much as we'd think.
I love UI consistancy, I find my gnome desktop much more consistant than windows. MS Word, MS Anti-Spyware, Explorer, Notepad, and Windows Media Player all use different widgets! I wish Windows was as consistant as gnome is!
It seems silly that they are tying the law to such a specific format, unless the submitter committted the big no-no of using MP3 as a generic for digital music. I will be enjoying my norwegian CDs encoded to vorbis.
actually clinton created a regulation during his last days to lower allowable mercury levels but bush repealed it as soon has he took office. It was then re-implemented through an act of congress
> Your still going to be bound by Cedega's working game list only
That's completely untrue. Many games (like ut2004, doom3, and enemy territory) have native linux ports. Tons of older games also have linux ports. Older SCI and SCUMM based adventure games will run and modern native VMs. Here's the list of FPSs that gentoo packages: http://gentoo-portage.com/s?search=category%3Dgame s-fps
I love the right click context menu. It seems fairly analogous to object oriented programming. You right click on your "object" and perform actions on it. The right click is like the dot.
> Unfortunately, not a huge number - that's a part of why there have been 6 alphas for 1.8 - not enough users are testing it.
No the reason is that they didn't want to branch 1.8 until aviary had landed. Landing aviary was hard enough landing aviary+1.8 would have been disastrous.
But when you stick to the ps2 version you: 1) get the game earlier 2) never have to worry about the game's compatiblity with graphics card/drivers 3) never have to worry about the game's compatibility with windows updates
While i haven't had these problems with vice city i have had them with other windows games.
And in regards to your specific points: a) you have to pay for the game for whetever system. That is unless you are using a warez'd copy but you could do that with a chipped ps2 as well
b/c) also the xbox version also has significantly better graphics then the PS2 version and the PS2 controller is just fine for controlling the game. If you spread the cost of the system over $20 games then it's only $7.50 extra games. And with greatest hits titles priced new from $19.99 you can get a used game for like $15 or less plus you can also rent console games.
I know that all the mac zealots have been hanging here since apple.slashdot.org opened up, but how is this news worthy? Or at least how is this front page worthy? Would it be a front page story if dell updated their laptop line? It probably wouldn't make the site at all. So how is this different?
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>I'd always assumed that there was a libGecko, libXUL , libMozMail etc. that Seamonkey, Thunderbird and Firefox all used to avoid duplicating effort. That doesn't seem to be the case, however (from my understanding now, anyway): they all seem to use their own, slightly different components.
/opt/mozilla.org) and then you can still have the files in two seperate isntallers but have one copy of code on the users PC.
This is the way development is structured for most of the development period. However, before a firefox/thunderbird realease (last time way before) a branch forks off and changes may be made to any of these components. Then when realeas time comes the whole tree minus mail is packed up for a firefox release and the whole tree minus the browser for a thunderbird release.
From what I understand this comes partly from a lack of package management on windows (and possibly OSX?). Where they don't want firefox to dpend on another istaller.
IMHO they really should install *versioned* libraries to C:\Program Files\Common Files\Mozilla.org (or
There is no technical reason why galeon or epiphany couldn't have the gecko source included. The reasons are purely practical. Unlike camino or firefox they aren't hosted in the mozilal cvs, they are in the gnome cvs. And there is nothing about wrapping firefox or seamonkey that makes it slow. Thankfully seamonkey/firefox is modularized enough that they only needs to load a few components. as far as dependancies go, thay are gnome webbrowsers, complainging about gnome dependancies is like complaining that IE depends on MFC. In the end, dependancy on a standard frame work or libraries makes the projects easier to maintain and allows for far less code dupelication (unlike the firefox/thunderbird fiasco which on windows dupelicate all the way from glib and zlib up include nspr/nss all the way through the whole gecko engine). If you really wanted to you could hack togther a binary of galeon that is staically linked to most of those libs. Depending on these libraries also doesn't make it so you have to have or run metacity or gnome-panel or nautilus.
> It took you until 7.0 to switch to IE? Netscape started being based on Mozilla after 4.0
No, you're just plain wrong
The Netscape source code wasn't even realeased until after 4.0
> You cannot just start working on the firefox/mozilla source. It is one bloated big piece of ????. I did not even manage to compile it without downloading pre-setup environments. It took years and years to build this monster, and it is very very hard to control.
That's a half truth. On all platforms it build like any piece of unix software quite easily (./configure; make; make install) On Windows it also build like any piice of Unix software, so you need to set up a Unix layer (cygwin) and get unix librarues (glib, libIDL), and you need to integrate the system's native compiler into this mess.
> There's nothing real about "The apprentice, "Big Brother", "American Idol", "Survivor", etc etc.
That's untrue, the shows relay on real emotions and relationships between real people even if they are caused by contrived situations.
>After all, Red Hat is the de facto standard of all open source. Intel's compilers, Oracle and everything corporate is designed for it. Good luck installing not to mention running anything like that on other distributions.
If it were the defacto standard of all open source like you assert then we'd have problems running all sorts of OSS on anything other than red hat but that is not the case. I may have problems running soem closed source db, or a closed source compiler but that makes redhat teh defacto standerd of linux not of OSS. I'll continue to be happy running an OSS datbase and an OSS compiler on my generic OSS system.
$ grep -i backport ChangeLog-2.4.29
o [SCTP] Remove sk_xxx macros to be consistent with the rest of networking cod
e and to avoid backporting issues.
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_LOG
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_dst
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_eui64
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_frag
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_hbh
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_ipv6header
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_multiport
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6t_rt
o [NETFILTER]: Backport fixes for ip6tables
o Backport of 2.6 fix to insert_vm_struct to make it return an error rather th
an BUG()
o backport v2.6: Fix pty race condition
o Jason Baron: Backport v2.6 tty/ldisc locking fixes
o backport v2.6 fork/thread file descriptor race fix
o Tigran Aivazian: backport sigmatch() issue in microcode.c
o backport v2.6 largefile isofs fix
o [NETLINK]: Backport pid hashing changes from 2.6
o [libata] fix minor 2.6 backport problems
o Backport of the 0.30 forcedeth driver to 2.4. It's a new backport, starting
from the 2.6 tree.
o Task name handling static copy v2.6 backport
o ricoh.h, mem0 wrong definition v2.6 backport
o DAC960 firmware/alpha backport from 2.6
o intermezzo, backport some fixes from 2.6
o intermezzo, backport some more fixes from 2.6
So which of these are break your driver?
And your customers shouldn't be using early 2.4/2.6 kernels because they have bugs and flaws up the wazoo, unless they themselves are guilty of backporting
Although its nice to say that your driver supports all 2.4 and 2.6 kernels, the trewth is that the driver doesn't need to support the oldest kernels of a stable series. Furthermore, if the kernel team hadn't backported the feature you want the driver would only work with 2.6 kernels period. So at least you have some 2.4 compatibilty.
This isn't such an issue if yoyu were migrating from 2.4.20-29 you wouldn't go to 2.6.0-7 you'd go for 8/9/10/11. Thre really isn't a feature gap because even though 2.6.0 is bigger than 2.4.29 it is from a parrellel branch. It was released much earlier than 2.4.29. You really shouldn't be going to a kernel that is significantly chronologiclly older. 2.4.29 is there for people who can't don't want to migrate to 2.6 series kernels. It would be much more chaotic and dangerous to drop the old kernel series as soon as a new one is released. Furthermore, 99% of backports are bug fixes and drivers.
> Try doing it in Linux without any of the GNU userland.
>Like it or not, unix-alike tools for windows are available from a variety of sources.
Cygwin on windows feels no where near as responsive as the GNU tools on a gnome-terminal in linux.
> I'm also a sucker for predictable UI...
I find that using a homogenous GTK+ desktop (gnome minus nautilus desktop (to boost speed) and plus goffice (faster than OO.o, plus uses native widgets)) the UI is far more predictiable that Windows. What do WMP, MS antiSpyware, MS Office, Windows Explorer, and Notepad have in common? Not the same widget set for sure. They all use different widgets.
> A copy of XP will run you about $150.
c ription=37-102-151&DEPA=6
XP home OEM is less than $100
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?des
Well I'd like to see Oscar AIM support and native widgets.
> Popular election of senators has already caused a lot of damage to the US.
Care to back that up with facts?
> users aren't clamoring for consistency as much as we'd think.
I love UI consistancy, I find my gnome desktop much more consistant than windows. MS Word, MS Anti-Spyware, Explorer, Notepad, and Windows Media Player all use different widgets! I wish Windows was as consistant as gnome is!
It seems silly that they are tying the law to such a specific format, unless the submitter committted the big no-no of using MP3 as a generic for digital music. I will be enjoying my norwegian CDs encoded to vorbis.
But the parent of my previous post clearly states that cedega games are the only option.
actually clinton created a regulation during his last days to lower allowable mercury levels but bush repealed it as soon has he took office. It was then re-implemented through an act of congress
> Your still going to be bound by Cedega's working game list only
e s-fps
That's completely untrue. Many games (like ut2004, doom3, and enemy territory) have native linux ports. Tons of older games also have linux ports. Older SCI and SCUMM based adventure games will run and modern native VMs. Here's the list of FPSs that gentoo packages: http://gentoo-portage.com/s?search=category%3Dgam
I love the right click context menu. It seems fairly analogous to object oriented programming. You right click on your "object" and perform actions on it. The right click is like the dot.
I think the parent means have the widgets rendered with gtk much like the way the qt theme engine for gtk renders gtk programs with qt widgets
> Unfortunately, not a huge number - that's a part of why there have been 6 alphas for 1.8 - not enough users are testing it.
No the reason is that they didn't want to branch 1.8 until aviary had landed. Landing aviary was hard enough landing aviary+1.8 would have been disastrous.
But when you stick to the ps2 version you:
1) get the game earlier
2) never have to worry about the game's compatiblity with graphics card/drivers
3) never have to worry about the game's compatibility with windows updates
While i haven't had these problems with vice city i have had them with other windows games.
And in regards to your specific points:
a) you have to pay for the game for whetever system. That is unless you are using a warez'd copy but you could do that with a chipped ps2 as well
b/c) also the xbox version also has significantly better graphics then the PS2 version and the PS2 controller is just fine for controlling the game. If you spread the cost of the system over $20 games then it's only $7.50 extra games. And with greatest hits titles priced new from $19.99 you can get a used game for like $15 or less plus you can also rent console games.
Did you actually read the comment, he was suppporting preinstalls by saying that clean installs are very vulnerable.
I know that all the mac zealots have been hanging here since apple.slashdot.org opened up, but how is this news worthy? Or at least how is this front page worthy? Would it be a front page story if dell updated their laptop line? It probably wouldn't make the site at all. So how is this different?