Slashdot Mirror
Norway Considers New Copyright Laws
bizpile writes "The Norwegian government is considering a change to copyright laws that would make it illegal to rip a CD to MP3s when copy protection is in place on the CD. However, you would still be allowed to copy from one CD to another regardless of copy protection. Gisle Hannemyr, of the University of Oslo's Department of Informatics, responded by saying "We are going to be a nation of lawbreakers if this law is passed in its current form." The new proposal would allow fines and a maximum penalty of three years in prison for violating copyrights and engaging in computer piracy."
If mp3s are outlawed, only outlaws will have mp3s.
From reading Slashdot, I thought Europe was a utopia with perfect and just laws.
Bloody Vikin-hey, wait, what's this about are going to be?!
Sooo... copy from protected to unprotected CD... then rip to MP3 :-)
I hear they want to copywrite "Beowulf".
It may stop a few people from ripping music, but most will do it anyway. It won't stop piracy. They should spend the time they would be enforcing pointless laws like that thinking up better ways to fix real problems (drugs, etc), not trying to stop people from putting music on their mp3 players or computers.
that would make it illegal to rip a CD to MP3s
:)
So ripping CD to ogg is OK?
So, the law is going to be .
I a company places protection on a work that prevents it from ever being released into the public domain (non-key escro DRM) then you are not allowed to copy it fullstop.
Do they realise what they are doing or saying or are they in the pockets of the media
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
if you can still copy cds...how does that provent pirating?
:~D
personally i think its stupid to prevent ripping when you can simply copy the whole cd for somebody else....
just my two cents
dave
MP3 should have been outlawed five years ago.
When was the white paper on that one? 1983? 1985?
It's time for people to move up to Vorbis and AC3.
Anyone caught still using MP3 should be beat with a cane pole in the town square.
You buy your iPod. -- Legal
You buy a CD -- Legal
You want to listen to "Your" music you bought on the iPod you bought and now you are breaking the law?
Crikey, this is getting ridiculous...
Sheeesh, at least all of the WMV files I have don't have copy.....
Oh wait...
Good it's about time they put these dangerous criminals behind bars! Obviously these people are the real problem in society, not those who commit crimes such as robbery, murder, assault, rape, etc. Really? By changing the storage format of something you can be send to jail? I knew the world had gone mad, but it's always nice to see a bit of conformation every now and then.
Bringing up the subject of a recent Slashdot article-- what's the penalty for actual theft in the traditional "go in, take it and walk out without paying for it" sense in Norway? Would the penalty for copyright infringement be worse or better by comparison?
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
This is why fair use is a good thing.
Here in america we're supposedly protected, and our rights are slowly being torn down. In Norway it looks like they're just being negated.
I'm all for people getting paid for their work, but to tell me that I can't use something I paid for in a way that I want, that's getting into big Govt. Where they dictate what you say and do because of their own interests instead of the peoples interests.
If we don't stand up to this kind of crap all over the world there will no longer be a "free" nation where people can live without oppression.
And BTW, I break no encryption or copy protection when I rip a cd to mp3 with my stereo and laptop, one plays the cd and one records the mic input directly into mp3 format. They can never stop this with any copy protection method. EVER.
) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
The law is an expression of the will of the people, not a corporation. If they want to rip MP3's, and a corporation fails because of it. So be it, obviously, they don't place value on the corporation, so it does not deserve to exist.
Why shouldn't you play the music on your jogging belt ? That's fair use !
What if it turns out I had given you permission, but I just wanted you to be put in jail ?
How about OGG ?
How about uncompressed stuff ? USB sticks are getting bigger by the day.
How about an encrypted MP3 ?
What if it turns out I don't hold the copyright. Are you still in jail ?
So if I copy a cd to an ISO image, is that legal under this law? We can just trade isos.
Well, yup, only we're talking about making digital copies (and not downloading) of your protected CDs - which, mind you, means you could not rip CDs at all, given that most new albums come out with some kind of (usually useless but still) protection.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
And what happens when they start to crack down on people? They gonna jail everyone? Will the police arrest people with earphones and check if they have a MP3 player?
"For example, a CD's (security code) could be cracked to play a recording on a car stereo, since a CD-player would be seen as an appropriate medium," the news release said. "But the security code could not be cracked to copy the recording onto an MP-3 player, since such a device would not be seen as an appropriate for a CD."
Ahh that's classic.
Who knew an mp3 player wasn't appropriate for playing music.
Technology, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems.
"For example, a CD's (security code) could be cracked to play a recording on a car stereo, since a CD-player would be seen as an appropriate medium," the news release said. "But the security code could not be cracked to copy the recording onto an MP-3 player, since such a device would not be seen as an appropriate for a CD."
I do security
Well, it's good that the Norweigan government is finally following America's lead and deciding to support the for-profit penal system. The only remaining question is whether they'll mollycoddle the music offenders, or bunk 'em all together with manly men named Sven and Rolf. Woof!
They actually said Europe was a utopia with perfect and just cheeses.
And if you wonder what the InfoSoc directive is: It is basically EUs copy of the DMCA, only a bit worse.
Really, it's interesting that such anti-consumer laws can get passed in the first place. I consider this phenomenon to be due to an interesting historical accident (of sorts).
Copyright laws weren't intended to affect consumers at all. They were written back in the days when "copying" a work meant pressing an unlicensed copy of a record, or printing an unlicensed copy of a book. Consumers didn't own record presses or printing presses, and thus weren't affected at all. The only people affected by these laws for many many many years were companies.
It makes sense to have heavy fines for corporations who attempt to make money off of other corporations' copyrighted work. The $150,000 per copy (or whatever) maximum fines for copyright violation make more sense in that context (though arguably are still ridiculously high).
However, in the Internet age, virtually anyone can make a perfect copy of virtually any data. Thus, we see those same $150,000 per copy (or whatever) maximum fines being used to threaten Joe Teenager from copying an MP3 from his friend. In this context, the amount is patently absurd.
Companies may or may not realize how absurd and out-of-context their exploitation of these laws are, but they are going to ride them as long as they're allowed to (n.b.: This may well be "forever"). Thus, the laws originally intended to keep shady companies from getting rich off of each others' hard work are now being used primarily to keep the consumers in line. I don't expect this trend to stop any time soon.
As I keep saying: Y'know all those sci-fi novels that predicted a future run by giant megacorps who ruthlessly control their consumers, but the consumers are largely too sheeplike to care? Well, that future is now.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Some years back the world's most famous piece of DMCA-violating speech, the DeCSS source code, was written by a guy from Norway.
It was observed at that point that if the author was violating no local law, what was the problem?
It would be interesting to see if anyone specific after that point began specifically lobbying Norway to fix this situation.
1. make music 2. add in highly buggy DRM format filled with spyware 3. sue for not using your own drm format 4. ??? 5. profit?
It seems silly that they are tying the law to such a specific format, unless the submitter committted the big no-no of using MP3 as a generic for digital music. I will be enjoying my norwegian CDs encoded to vorbis.
make a copy of the cd but don't copy the copy protection to the copy. Rip the copy.
Problem solved.
What's the coalition of Norwegian Christians up to now ;)
Don't mention the war, what? do you mean Norways bombing of Afganistan? Yepp, but they hand out the peace prize to level it out.. :P
So if you copied the protected cd to another cd that didn't have the same protection, could you then rip mp3's of THAT cd?
That sounds to easily done to be correct to me though.
--Forest C. Adcock--
Would this put another nail into the record shop coffin? I dont own a CD player anymore, I only play "my" songs on my computer or my mp3-player. I will certainly NOT by a CD wich I can not play on one of these. Who would?
The incompetent idiots running this country has done again. Did you know that that even Red Bull is forbidden here (IT'S A DRUG!!1) and a 1/3l bottle of beer in a discount supermarket will set you back 1.5?
Jesus tapdancing Christ.
"... an MP-3 player, since such a device would not be seen as an appropriate for a CD."
Thankfully someone cleared that up. I mean, the last time I tried to cram a CD into my mp3 player I ended up with nothing but busted plastic shards cutting up my hands. They really are thinking of the children!
"Me fail English, that's unpossible." --Ralphie
Phew - I don't need to worry about whether breaking the law by converting my shop-bought CDs to MP3 for my iPod because I download all my songs from Edonkey, I'm safe.
n-t-
We cannot forget that artists and labels can remove restrictions for music just as companies use Open Source licenses to remove restrictions for software. If "fair use" is vague in copyright law, what's stopping artists and labels from adding it back into the licensing contract? A good customer is a satisfied customer, right?
-- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
Is the motivation to reform copyright based on a real desire to be more fair or is it because the music industry is not as big there?
Not that it matters...good idea any which way.
Keep the faith, share the code
...that Socialist societies were free, and Capitalist societies were under the thumbs of corporations!
Even we don't have such a ridiculous law in the U.S.
Socialism: A feeling of discontent and resentment caused by a desire for the possessions or qualities of another.
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
there won't even BE a United States of America. It will be a fundamentalist Christian Republic under biblical law
That's a contradiction.
Nothin better than a whole nation of lawbreakers when fines are involved ay. Those crazy politicians, doncha jus luvem.
*sigh*
Elected officials have always made bad laws, and it has been very noticeable in recent years since technological changes have occurred so quickly, and most elected officials are too old to have caught on with what is happening. Even most of those who have adapted to technology have only done so in a superficial way.
But beyond this, elected officials generally reflect the views of society at large, including hysterias and short-sighted selfishness and everything else. It is the chief pitfall of democracy, and it the reason why the writers of the U.S. Constitution did not institute direct democracy. Unfortunately, the direct election of Senators and other changes have gradually worn down that protection. In any case, I presume things are similar in Norway.
I'm afraid that any investigative journalism will have little effect, as journalism also tends to reflect the idiocies of the public.
Baldur of Asgard
That thing I think is so absurd about this is the fact they have forgotten the most important reason for being able to transform media, obsolescence. What happens when the CD format is gone and there are no more CD-players? This happens to all forms of media over time. Does the content just cease to be used? Even it they industry argues they can resell it in the new form, who is to say they will still exist to do so? It seems to be that this is a bit of a perversion.
On a side note, no country has to do anything. If the European Union suddenly decided that they wanted to be communist, it does not mean that a country under treaty has to obey. They can politely refuse and deal with the consequences. Given how much these laws are hated, I do not see huge consequences. Anyone saying otherwise is simply using the excuse, "I was ordered to do it!" and we all know what that led to.
That's the trouble with tiny countries: it's hard enough to find competent legislators in big ones, where there are more people to choose from. But small countries end up being run by the sort of people who were pushed out of the PTA for being too anal about the intepretation of the rules on the cake contest, and are thirsting for revenge.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
So much for putting music on your iPød.
>>Who knew an mp3 player wasn't appropriate for playing music.
Sony.
Its incredible but Well see in the future the consequences...
Copyright reversed is rightcopy. Does that mean I have the right to copy?
(gimme a break it's 4:30 on Friday)
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
The police, who do not have enough resources to enforce theft from shops will not by any means be able to enforce this law. However the police may raid an averige high scool and arrest 3/4 of the pupiles, (who listens to music downloaded from the internett (not from iTunes) or copied from a CD on their iPods).
Nothing will change for me if this law gets passed. I'll just ignore it, and I predict that other people will too.
Slightly off-topic, this has probably been said a lot but I'll say it again. The music industry needs to rethink their marketing strategies. I'll use myself as an example here. I don't listen to radio at all, I don't watch much TV (and when I do, it's not the channels that run ads for artists). When I buy music I don't just pick something from the "top 20" list. I download MP3s and put them into iTunes. Then I just listen to songs that haven't been played before. If there is a song I like I just give it a 4 or 5 star rating and maybe I listen to the album. If it doesn't suck I may buy it from amazon or play.com. Sometimes I drop by a music store in town and browse through the sections with music I'm interested in to see if I can find some gems (if the store doesn't sort by genre I just leave).
After I started listening music this way, my CD purchases has increased from maybe 5 a year to about one per week.
The difference between me and the "ideal" consumer (from an industry standpoint) is that I'm in total control. I get exposed to stuff I know I might like. (Before emusic changed their policy, I browsed different sections and got the top rated stuff just to check it out).
I'm an American. damn. MP3 is illegal. Having it on your computer you will go to prison. With the terrorists. damn. If you support mp3 you support terrorism.
damn
illegal to rip a CD to MP3s when copy protection is in place on the CD.
If I'm at a music store and a CD that interests me has copy protection, I don't buy it. I go home and download it off of p2ps instead.
I don't listen to CDs: I listen to my rips on the computer or the iPod! If a label tells me they don't want me to listen to their stuff on my iPod, I curse them and get the content to the device of my choice without giving them money.
So, fuck the RIAA for trying to tell me which hardware I can or cannot use to listen to music.
You can't take the sky from me...
IANAL, but a quick search seems to indicate[1] that the penalty for theft is the same as in your quote: fines and up to three years in prison.
[1] http://lovdata.no/all/hl-19020522-010.html#257 (in Norwegian)
I use Linux, thus, I wouldn't even notice any "copy-protection" schemes based on having Windows autostart files on the disc. I use cdparanoia to rip, and its anti-jitter, anti-scratch, error-correction features will probably blow past the remaining "copy-protection" schemes based on adding deliberate errors to the disc. Are they going to provide me with tools to detect the presence of "copy protection" that I otherwise wouldn't even be able to notice? Or are they simply planning to outlaw Linux?
/. summary, which I realize isn't a reliable guide to what's actually been proposed). I hope that European Free Software and Consumers' Rights groups are all over this one.
This legislation seems insane and miguided (at least from the
of governmental and commercial organization over private citizens is to pass laws that make _everyone_ a criminal upon close inspection.
"So, you aren't very fond of our actions, huh? Well let's just check you desktop computer... shouldn't be a problem for you, right? Your'e just a law abiding citizen...
"Oh, wait a minute. Look what I just found! Seems like your going down, buddy. You sure are sorry you messed with us now, huh, punk?!"
In that case, it might be argued that what you've made isn't a copy but a derivative; since your unprotected version clearly (and intentionally!) is different from the original, it's not a copy.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
This means America doesn't have a worldwide monopoly on clueless politicians, after all! We still have the ones who are most clueless, though...
Did I get this right - they complain how stealing is illegal?
How about "borrowing" a CD-ROM from a music shop, ripping it and then putting it back on the shelf? Is that stealing?
But no matter what I say I'm sure some smart ass will post some quasi counter-arguments...
Before one of top arguments were "bloated" prices of CD-ROMs.
Then after songs became available for 99c a pop (no need to buy a whole set of 12 songs), we've learned how "content wants to be free" and similar crap.
The new Napster service gives you unlimited access to millions (I guess) of songs for a paltry $15/month or so. If you listen your MP3 player 10 hours a day or 300 hours a month, that's 5 cents for each hour of listening. Is that expensive? I don't think so.
To those who "consume" more than a CD a month (I don't), the new Napster might be cheaper than buying from Apple's online store, but in any case, the both are good choices.
I'm trying very hard but can't feel any sympathy for those who complain about this new law.
I would understand if one said "Shit, it's already unethical and now it's illegal, too, but what the hell, I'll try my luck".
Then once you get busted (or if you get busted), you should accept your loss, but you can't object about the law itself - you can only blame your stupidity, shortsightedness, bad luck, etc.
We now judge people operating on information in their own home for their own personal use by the same criteria that we use to judge people having and operating things in public with the very real potential to kill people.
Why complain that it's illegal to criticize the government? If instead of criticizing the government you were hacking people to death with a machete, that would be illegal, and nobody would mind, right? And after all, what's the difference?
Why in God's name does it matter how I wish to store or transport my music?
I hate this sort of thing. Legislators need to find the action that actually causes harm and outlaw THAT, rather than attacking some random point in the chain. (In this case, that means punishing those who distribute copyrighted content, not those who copy it.)
How the hell would anyone be able to use an iPod in Norway?
The Slashdot hivemind praises people when they uphold personal and consumer rights over large corporate interests, and attacks them when they don't.
WHAT A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES!
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
*** "The Norwegian government has shown a broad vision that is unique in Europe," said the group's secretary general Per Morten Hoff. He praised the law for recognizing the industry's right to protect copyrighted material. ***
...
Vision that is unique? LOL! With the currently changing markets for music formats - no one wants a portable cd player any more, everyone wants a portable mp3/wmv player - Norway's vision is ensuring either their population breaks the law, or sales of music cd's will plummet.
Their right to protect copyrighted material is going to be guaranteed by the time they're finished -- no one is going to be interested in the material at all by the time all those criminal convictions of illegal mp3 rippings take place.
Buy a music cd? Hell no, who needs the trouble that causes.
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you
Where is the contradiction?
If this law passed, then this would mean that if you buy a CD from the store, you'd be able to use it only in CD players but not on your computer or portable mp3 player,
but if you buy music from the iTunes Music Store or a similar service you can use it in either location, since burning to CD is outright one of the advertised features.
In such a circumstance I can't imagine why anyone who owns a computer would ever buy CDs at all, except that the iTunes Music Store doesn't exist in Norway right now. If this passes and gets enforced and people are paying attention, the end result could just be the total cessation of CD sales in Norway.
Though, of course, the idea this law would be really enforced instead of just being selectively enforced against people the police and/or the recording industries arbitrarily want to throw in jail is pretty outlandish.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Biblical law would not include in article VI of the constitution that no religious test is allowed for holding public office.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
The constitution can be amended. Even if it is not amended, the Bush administration has clearly demonstrated how easily it can be ignored.
Full Article
Background
That's why my sig says what it says. Forget the mainstream...support Indies. Sooner or later the Mainstream world has to recognize the DRM and other copy-protection is going to get real old...real fast. Besides .mp3 is becoming an inferior format anyway. I personally feel that Ogg Vorbis has much more to offer.
I have nothing clever to put here...
As the rest of Europe used to say in the Eurovision song contest (adopts pseudo French accent)...
"Norway, null points"
Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
Where is the contradiction?
"United States" I expect.
This is just another on-the-paper law, made to conform to western trends in (media focused) law. This is clearly a consequence of all the controversy around the current norwegian copyright laws.
However, the enforcement of it will be marginal, if existent at all. My guess is ISP's will continue to forward threat mail from MPAA/RIAA to their customers as they are recieved, and do nothing more about it, just like before.
Where in California is Norway?
http://slashdot.su/
The point is that that little tidbit of law is proof that the US government is not now and never was a Christian bible-based government, as the previous poster falsely implied. I wasn't saying anything about what the future might hold.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
That's not quite a horrible as the original post makes it sound. But it's still sad that every country feels obliged to follow in the US's copyright footsteps.
Now what about distributing devices or software that allows ripping to MP3 from a protected CD? Will that be illegal like in the US? If so, the personal fair use won't be of much help unless you are a cyptographer.
"They have conjugal visits there don't they?"
Not that I know of. No, minimum security prison is no picnic. I have a client in there right now. He says the trick is, kick someone's ass the first day, or become someone's bitch. Then everything will be alright.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
The current (well, for me, since I'm in the US) issue of Computer Music has an interview with Roni Size, who mentions that he just threw out a ton of his CDs after ripping them to his hard drive. According to the linked article above, Norway is considering this law to bring the country into line with the rest of the EU. Does this mean Roni Size is a criminal for daring to rip his own legally-purchased CDs?
People seem to forget that the main reason to have copyright & patent laws is to benefit society as a whole by enriching the public domain.
The reasoning goes something like this: if every invention and creation is free for grabs, nobody would invest in the creative process, so let's give the inventors/creators an incentive in the form of a *limited* monopoly on implementing and distributing their invention/creation.
Keep in mind that the protection is not an end in itself but only a means to the real end. Therefore, we must be careful not to let it outweigh the public benefit.
Does the society, really *need* protection duration of creator life + 70 years? Would the creative process stop if we limit it so something reasonable, like 10 years?
Does the society, really *need* broad patents that claim everything under the sun, or patenting of ideas (as opposed to implementations) or mathematical formulas? Remember what Newton said about standing on the shoulders of giants and consider what good does it do to the public if a person or organization can hold all R&D in a certain field hostage until it no longer relevant?
The creators and inventors should be able to make a decent living from the application of their talents, we should guarantee them nothing more.
When a brilliant physician stops healing, the flow of money stops - even if the patients whose life they may have saved continue living and enjoying their health!
When a brilliant teacher stops teaching, the flow of money stops - even if his students continue to rip the rewards of their excellent education.
Currently, the legislators are preocupied with enriching the "intellectual property" owners at the expense of fair use. This is a sham. Intellectual "property" is nothing more than a racket. When there is a conflict between the wants of the society and the wants of the IP holders, the public interest should always take precedence.
Think about it.
Do something about it.
Convince 10 other people to do something about it.
Convince them to repeat the process.
Start an avalanche. Nothing less will cure the system.
When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job."
... students go to prison for years for stealing a few thousand dollars of warez. ... riaa convicted of price fixing, stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from consumers, and they get a slap on the wrist.
shouldnt the equivalent punishment for the riaa CEOs be something like multiple life terms in prison?
It has nothing to do with mp3. Basicly they pretty much outlawed 99% of the legal uses of a portable music player. If it is illegal to rip from CD to play there, what the hell. You're already a criminal. Download it instead. That'll only bring the crime rate from 99,9% to 99,999%.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Man, this whole thing just ticks me off. It's just patethic. I hope the law makers will back off and take Gisle Hannemyr's wisdom to heart.
...is that these kinds of directives are impossible to fight. Look at the date for the InfoSoc directive. 2001. Yes, four years ago. Yet we have no choice but to implement it, except for a highly theoretical veto right (from not being in the EU, only EUs lap dog).
What can public pressure do? Implemented by 2005. Uproar by 2006. New proposal to EU in 2008. New directive in 2010. New law in 2015. Try keeping the public's attention for ten years while playing the ladder game with the corporations. They'll slide you right back to square one when people aren't looking.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
What about mpc, ogg, ape, flac .....etc
they gonna make laws for them too ???
And hopefully it will be shot down like a raise for school teachers.
As a Norwegian citizen I found this proposition quite contrary from what is usual in Norways neutral political landscape. My biggest mistake was voting for the party (Høyre) which is one of the parties responsible for proposing this thing (God knows I won't be doing that again), ironically their slogan is Freedom, Responsibility and Diversity.
Anyhow, time to write 165 letters, one to each member of the Norwegian parlement.
What's the deal here? Are governments throwing up their hands and telling us that they can't catch people doing hard crime? Is this just another ploy to make everyone a criminal?
/ 121215.shtml
Here's a nice editorial piece written almost two years ago (US-centric, but still applicable I think):
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/7
Perhaps governments feel that they do not have sufficient control over their peoples..
A wise person makes his own decisions, a weak one obeys public opinion. -- Chinese proverb
If it's not currently illegal, then how can Norway become a nation of lawbreakers unless there are changes to the law?
The what? What did I ignore??
...it ended when the companies turned against their consumers as I'm sure we all know.
Lots of excellent posts already but I just want to get this off my chest.
The only thing that is going on is low-intensity mopping up operations (i.e. the time it takes the kids to start using the new tricks to evade the "law").
Welcome to the first real cultural revolution imo.
Slightly OffT:
1. I am a Norwegian
2. Gisle is a super cool guy, really, I've met him in person a few times. On the funny side he's like a hybrid of Linus and Richard imnsho hehe j/k (just image that, please hehe)
Totally OnT:
The law is a total sham. In a democracy any law derives its legitamacy from being supported by the majority of the people. One single filesharing protocol (torrents) is accounting for something close to a third of the total net traffic globally (and I'm willing to bet this number is closer to 50% in Norway because of the proliferation/density of DSL connections) and adding countless other protocols it's reasonable to think that at least 70% of all norwegians do some sort of filesharing of illegal files... Gisle is right. And as far as the law is concerned the norwegian population has rejected it in practice a long time ago. Actions speak louder than words.
Actually Gisle's statement about a nation of lawbreakers is already fulfilled. The present norwegian "åndsverklov" (copyright law) states that it is illegal to upload files you do not own the right for, something which would inclue using bittorrents as you're both downloading and uploading (unless leeching). Does it matter? No! The law is not being enforced and will not be enforced - ever!
this comment is provided "as is" and without any express or implied legibility or congruity [...]
If the law against mp3 ripping in Norway was made retroactive then it is entirely possible for someone to commit a criminal act even though it is legal at the time the act was done. Fortunately, Norway's constitution appears to not allow ex post facto laws.
It has always been "copyright". You know, as in "right to copy"...? (Now there is such as thing as a "copywriter", but that's a different story...)
...because starting July 1 a similar law takes effect, which, among other things, makes circumventing the copy protection on a music disc, DVD etc. to copy it illegal even for personal use (note that circumventing it to play it on, for example, Linux, still is legal).
The motivation for this is that otherwise "everyone would copy discs and claim it's for personal use". Well, maybe if they copy them and share the copies online (which I'd wager the law is out to stop) it's not just for personal use anymore.
Needless to say, I, as a Swede, am not happy that I will be a criminal for listening to my music on my computer with iTunes (which by the way rips the copy protected discs I own with no problem - now what, will iTunes be illegal under the new law?) instead of having to switch discs all the time.
Apparently, the law will bring Sweden up to EU standards on the matter. I thought Norway, which isn't a member of the EU, wouldn't do something like this, seeing as how they're not pressured to it by a bunch of guys in Brussels.
More info about the law, in Swedish, at: http://www.regeringen.se/sb/d/1929
What if you were to do a transfer via an sp/dif or AES digital cable to uncompressed wav/aiff format and then compress it yourself? JR
untill the evil forces of coporate america forced our chichen eu to force european countries to adopt strict copyright laws.
But in reality, this dosen't change a thing.
And I'am a norwegian ripper, like the rest of us..
Maybe I should move there. Here, it's illegal to rip your own non-protected CDs. :(
::Blink:Blink:Blink::
Who the hell wants a portable wmv player??
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Here's a long term solution. Governments should all pass just one law this year. Let's call it MISTUPID, and it should apply to punitive laws. If future punitive laws are discovered to be unconstitutional, or are repealed, then MISTUPID would state that the penalties given in those laws will automatically be applied to those who wrote them, and those who lobbied for them.
I wonder how many stupid laws would be passed after MISTUPID came into force.
= 9J =
Ahh that's classic. Who knew an mp3 player wasn't appropriate for playing music.
And here lies the entire problem. I don't buy music anymore, it seems I buy the medium for the music. This menas I can't have backup of my _music_, since I bought a cd... In my opinion, *any* music player should be considered relevant for music, as long as I've bought the music. Sure, I'd accept that while I was using my MP3-player, I had to ensure noone was playing the cd, or atleast that the cd was in my possession, so noone else could play it at the same time. And as the times are changing, why would I want to carry a piece of 20 year old technology taking up a lot of space to play 70 lousy minuts of audio, when I can have 700 minutes in my pocket, only with minor quality degration? This is simply forcing people to use old technology... And they won't reach anywhere with it. People will continue to use MP3players, and my guess is that this will be socially accepted, and also that the cops/TONO (Tono == RIAA) won't really care as long as I don't have pirated content on it...
Assembling etherkillers for fun an profit