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Was the Mac mini Intended to Have an iPod dock?
RMH101 writes "Was the Mac mini originally designed to have an integrated iPod dock? The Register
has an article that appears to suggest it was. This opens up the option of homebrewing your own dock into a mini for yourself..."
I doubt anyone would, I mean what does a doc cost versus the cost of replacing your Mac if you fsck it up
I've got some photographs, I'd like to show them to you. Though you don't know the girls You'll recognise the view..
Or in other words:
This opens up the option of homebrewing your own dock into a mini for yourself...
Ydco co
the real difficulty would be maintaining the smooth look of the mini... nothing like a jagged hole to keep the minimalists happy. A dock could be cool for all the ipoders out there.
the mac mini 2 is intended to have an ipod dock.
I want Mac Mini. I do not want iPod. As far as I am concerned Apple made a right decision.
Pretty leet huh, I'm about to submit it as a full fledged story to /.
Look for me in the dupe.
Given some of the homemade cases I've seen, I suspect tinkering with the Mac Mini to give it an iPod dock would make it a bit less "mini" and considerably less stylish.
Slashdotters don't care about screwing perfectly good things up. Look at all the dissection topics!
But did anyone else notice the convientley placed R2 and D2 ?
It would a good to have this dock as optional, but that will be in the next flurry of updates?
"Sweet llamas of the Bahamas !"
While I think it's a good idea to add a "simple" feature like that, it might not be useful if the mini is just sitting on the middle shelf of a home theater system.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
eom
or we would have had YA device with a non-flat top surface (ie nonstackable).
This ties in nicely to the way that the mini seems tailor-made to be a media-center PC. If some sort of tuner card were plugged into this slot (say in a "Mac Mini Media-Center Edition" or something) you could plug a mini into your TV and be basically set with the ultimate convergence box.
That's my opinion, anyway. Be looking for a Media Center version of the Mini soon.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Use Coral proxy to avoid slashdotting the poor site.
-P
I hate people who quote
Don't the different iPod models have different docks? So you could have a one-size-fits-all dock, but when you put a mini in it, there would be a gap around the edges, and Apple just wouldn't let that happen.
The remnants of a possible iPod dock were found by the initial people ripping them open.
Whether the Firewire feature was dropped from the first incarnation, or was put in place ready for the Mac's next revision isn't clear. However, early rumours surrounding the so-called "headless iMac" that was to become the Mac Mini, did indeed mention an integrated iPod Dock, fitted to help encourage Windows-using iPod owners to switch to the Mac platform...
I'm sorry but what made ME (as a "PC" user) to switch to the Mac platform was the price. $499 for the base model is 100% perfect. I have said it here before (and I am saying it again)... Once Apple created a computer that was reasonably priced I would purchase one and I did.
It's nice that it runs cool, near silent, and that it is snappy for what I use it for (with 512MB) but it's super nice that it was priced right.
I don't own an iPod and I likely will never own an iPod so the iPod dock wouldn't make me switch. I highly doubt that PC users would switch just because of an iPod docking feature.
YMMV.
...the reality distortion field generator, duh!
...more importantly, I noticed that Safari was using much more memory than Firefox when I had both open. Therefore, certainly we must ask ourselves, "is the Mac mini preferring certain programs over others?"
Take off every sig. For great justice.
If you read the description, the firewire connection pins are directly next to the connection to the ATA optical disc drive. Maybe Apple wanted to have the option of shipping firewire based disc drives should they become cheaper.
I realy hope it's a iPod dock to come. If the next mini mac has the iPod dock installed i'll buy one. Read more here
Bits of News Giving you the latest bits.
I mean, how surprising is it that computer hardware often has unused functionality, that with a little work can be used? Like IDE controllers on cheap-ass Internet TV boxes a few years ago. Great for modders of course, not that I'd want to alter a Mac Mini, it looks nice anyway.
Maybe they'll add it in to a revision two Mac Mini. Maybe the back riser is a generic part that will also be used in an as-yet unknown but similar to the Mac Mini device. Woo woo foo foo.
They'd have done better by having a USB port and a Firewire port on the front/side of the Mac Mini. Easy to plug an iPod Shuffle in there, or a Firewire cable for DV applications. But oh no, it would damage the smooth sleek look of the device.
A great deal of people are buying iPod's these days. If more of them would buy mac's too Apple's market share for personal computers would greatly increase. I'm sure they originally put the dock idea in the low-cost model to attract these windows iPod buyers but the purists at Apple fought to keep the box cheap, simple, and clean.
Also, since I have karma to spare, with I googled for mac mini ipod dock I got a picture of this crazy contraption. Just thought I'd share.
- Cary
--Fairfax Underground: Where Fairfax County comes out to play
"Microsoft intended to fix bugs in Windows?" All the signs are there, the half done architecture and comment code stating "To be enabled in Longhorn."
As others here have mentioned, it might have been nixed for esthetic reasons. The innards might have been designed somewhat independently of the case. Could be we'll see a different looking mini later with this feature. I would be a shame to punch a hole through this thing, and I guess Jobs would feel the same way.
Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits
...is backing away from the iPod? Quick! Someone call CNet!
This opens up the option of homebrewing your own dock into a mini for yourself..." Not quite. Since the Mac Mini was not designed to have an iPod dock in it, adding one on your own without buying an officially licensed accessory is clearly a violation of the DMCA. Is Slashdot encouraging law breaking?! The Horror!
This is old news.
There's nothing but vents in the back panel where this would sit. It's possible that at one point they were planning on having the firewire port (or ports) in a second row on the I/O panel, which would have left room for three USB ports.
Save the galaxy!
I think in this case it was redundant with the article description. From what I can see.
I had the opportunity not too long ago to speak with someone at Apple that worked on the Mac Mini project and I asked the same question as it had been speculated on a lot by the rumor sites. The answer was yes, it was considered early on in the project but killed because they didn't think that it would work aesthetically along with the possibility that it could interfere with the wireless performance of the Bluetooth and Airport antennas that are located on the top of the case.
In fact, the moderator was correct -- you managed the rare feat of an entirely redundant first post. Particularly impressive given that the blurb is only three sentences long!
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
The only iPod-branded device lacking firewire is the iPod Shuffle. The new Minis have firewire, they just aren't bundled with a firewire cable.
all of the newgen ipods are shipping with usb2.0, right? so....why is firewire linked to iPod exclusively?
From summary:
This opens up the option of homebrewing your own dock into a mini for yourself...
What would you get if you had a Mac Mini, that worked like a Tivo and could use an iPod to transfer files? I don't like mac, mostly because I like my toys to require asambly, but that combo would be cool enough for me to want one.
We are the Borg...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
or perhaps... the mac mini 2 is intended to have an ipod dock.
This got me thinking - my Sawtooth G4/400 has an internal Firewire port. Clearly, the designers intended the next generation of G4s to have integrated iPod docks.
It's not uncommon for features to get added early in the mobo manufacturing process because it's cheap and relatively simple. This is probably an example of Apple doing a CYA 12 months ago and then abandoning the idea (whatever it was - dock or something else).
When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
I won't get one until they're free inside a box of specially marked cereal.... but only if the cereal is on sale and I have a dollar-off coupon.
Beat that cheapo.
Of course the summary didn't mention how difficult it would be, so there was something extra in the first post. Considering you'd need to solder a resistor and voltage thingy, and then dissect an existing iPod connector, and then make sure it is secure in the case, and mod the lid in a decent manner ... hmm - this means it isn't an option for most people.
Apple has the best selling philosophy:
Sell version 1 w/ minimal features
get everyone hooked
release version two with extensive features
profit
look at the shuffle, the chip has the ability to recieve FM, they will add a screen and FM tuner in 1-2 versions to bump sales up. brilliant.
The port is prob for a 7in1 type memory card reader for digital cameras and such!
The iPod Mini has a smaller dock than the regular iPod, though they use the same connector. However, I'm sure that Apple could come up with something, but I'm leaning towards no being the answer to "Was the Mac mini intended..."
Replace the hard drive with a docking station for the iPod. The higher-end iPods already come with a bigger standard drive than the Mini, why make customers pay for two drives?
I can't decide if this post is interesting, funny, insightful, or flamebait.
Yes, it was completely redundant. I'd guess that you not only didn't RTFA, you didn't even read the fine summary. That's what you get for replying to a headline. And no, your post complaining about the moderation isn't "Interesting", or even "Funny". Although the latter could give your karma a good hosing if someone wants to spend some time modding it down where it belongs (-1, Offtopic and Overrated).
If you're worried about design and looks, you need to think about laptops and their docking stations. Look at the bottom of the laptop and there are little flaps over the docking connector that gets opened up when you plop the laptop on the dock. Given this basic design + Apple's ingenuity, I'm sure adding an iPod docking station will not detract from the looks of the mini.
Get Paid to search
Simple. Just have a cover matching case material colour that is pushed out of the way when you plug the iPod in.
-- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"'
You should try to get first post when this story is duped. If you get modded redundant again, it might just open up a dimensional rift and allow the Holy Attack Fleets of Morblark-thuley-flappity-thonk to enter this realm at last. Bwa ahahhaahh ahhahaaahahah aahha!!!!!
Cough.
And if it drops to $10, you have a price point some people would STILL bitch about. Seriously, people will always want a price point below that which its currently selling for. Oh, and Ive kept my Mini with 256mb ram, and Ive not had any issues with it regarding speed or memory issues - dont take the 'must have 512mb ram minimum' crowd too seriously.
Thank you. That's what I was getting at...I was looking to talk about the relative difficulties in pulling off such a mod job. I agree that if my first post was 'Gee whiz, I bet you could mod your own minimac!', then it should have been modded down as Redundant, if not outright Retarded.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Cough.
You forgot the "Turn your head and..." part.
It is cheap enough to make me buy one though. To build an entire PC from scratch It usually costs me $400-$500. Granted the PC will have much better features than the mini, but hear me out. This is for my fiance. She only uses mac's and her G3 iMac really isn't enough machine to run OS X very well. It's time to replace it. If the mac mini didn't exist, she'd be running Ubuntu on a mini-itx box themed to look just like OS X. I'd have spent about the same amount of money, and she wouldn't be as happy.
:)
This is a win, win, win situation. Apple gets a sale and retains a customer (actually gets a new customer, because I'm buying the thing). My fiance gets a new mac and she's happy. And I win, becase when your fiance is happy good things happen to you
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
Nice revisionism. If what you say is true, why did you emphasize "yourself" in the original post? Your subsequent interpretation does not make sense in light of the phrasing and emphasis of the original post.
Because slashdot still does not have a "-1, RTF summary you insolent clod" moderation for the grandparent (who just rephrased the last line of the summary). So you have to give the parent something for pointing this out.
That looks interesting but the mac mini connecctor has 20 pins, while the ipod dock connector has 30 pins. The placement of the firewire pins are also different - the mini has the data on pins 1,2,11, and 12, while the ipod has them on 3,5,7, and 9.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
I'm waiting until it's 50$, I won't pay a penny more! Well shit, after paying taxes, even 50$ seems a bit steep... lets make it an even 20$ and call it a day.
See you at the apple store!
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
mod parent up:
This is more about players than the Mini, but...
I'm an embedded/firmware developer doing audio players.
The solutions used by virtually *everyone*, Apple included, for their music players are built around overloaded (in a good way) platforms from PortalPlayer and Sigmatel. Typically they're designed so that the platform can do anything from simple flash player to full-fledged multicodec recording and video playback.
The cost of the silicon is basically the same in all of these cases, and makes it possible for the platform developers to support customers in the entire product range (from Shuffle to Portable Media Player) with very little overhead.
The savings come in reducing the peripheral devices that have to go in, as well as the mechanical construction and battery. Flash players, for example, don't have a 20 dollar (in high volume!) LCD, and typically only use a few MB of SDRAM cache since they don't have to worry about HDD duty cycle to conserve power.
$499 Computer == quite cheap
$499 iPod peripheral == very expensive
John Carmack fan, browsing at +5 since 1999.
Cool, I didn't know that. Where do you work, if you can say?
Random is the New Order.
The fact that the mount has firewire integrated makes absolutely no difference. If you've been keeping up with the news, you'd know that Apple is now marketing the iPod as a USB2 device. It's no longer shipping with a firewire cable. Why would that make steps towards integrating the iPod with the mini via firewire when they're abandoning their whole stance on firewire to begin with?
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
That's all fine and good, but does it run MacOS X?
nevermind...
Just use your datagrinder!
Have you read my blog lately?
If this were a USB connector, I might be convinced it was intended as an iPod dock. As of now, all iPods support USB, though only mini's and larger even have Firewire (the iPod Shuffle does not). Maybe I am totally wrong because the dock interface on the bottom might support firewire - I just don't know. What I do know is that my iPod mini is much smaller than a regular iPod / iPod Photo and I don't see how a universal dock could work.
_Perhaps_ the reason this interface didn't see the light of day (until now) is that it was designed for Firewire and got too far down the development chain when Apple Marketing determined the USB route was the way they wanted to go. So with no time to change the circuit to USB, they nixed the dock concept.
Or _perhaps_ they just liked the clean lines the mini has, or felt that at $499, they couldn't justify the feature.
There are plenty of resons why they didn't.
The question really is, if they _had_ would it have increased sales? It would be a "cool" factor, but I don't know that it makes me want a Mac mini any more than I already do.
For the same engineering/component dollars, maybe Apple could increase the ram (much discussed ad infinitem) or bumped up the graphics card - these are the universal #1 and #2 complaints I hear of the mini (forget those who "claim" they would buy at price point X $499).
No one ever bitches that there isn't an integrated iPod dock.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
On the first few generations iMacs, there was a "Mezzanine" port which you could attach a floppy drive to or a vodoo 2 card (yea the times have changed). Apple never did anything with it, it was just there. I think this port on the Mac Mini will be similarly exploited by some company.
One of the things about buying a Mac is that you can still use it after 7 years. I've got a 400Mhz G4 that I've been using as my main macintosh until a year ago when I got a PowerBook. It runs the latest version of OS X and it usually benefits from the OS upgrades.
I don't understand how whiners like you get modded up. Here we have the finest combination of a UNIX machine, a excellent UI, and decent market support, and you want it for the price of the crappiest computer you can whip up on Newegg?
Please. Apple did a great job of trying to meet the demands of the cheapskates. One of my friends who bitched about the price forever finally admitted he had to have a Mini when they were announced.
If you can't afford it, that's ok. However, nobody owes anything to you, the least of which, a cheaper Macintosh.
On a similar note, the original iMac had the header for a floppy drive. (I guess they planned to ship it with one.) Several companies made a quick buck selling kits to connect a standard Mac floppy drive to this port. Not too much later, a firmware update caused this port to stop working, along with the "ext" port that people had managed to plug SCSI and graphics card into. Perhaps Steve still didn't like the idea of people messing around inside his new Mac? It seems funny that the iMac G5 is designed to be completely disassembled by the end-user now. It's like the Mac II all over again...
At first I thought you said discussion topics, and thought: Yeah, /.er's do a great job screwing those up.
This post cannot be rebroadcast without the express written constent of Major League Baseball.
You're apparently just not too choosy about speed, or don't run a lot of apps at once. 256MB is exhausted rapidly under OSX. The OS itself consumes more than 128MB, not counting caching.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
When it drops to around $349 then I will jump. I know a few others that want a $299 price point. As it stands now its not truly a $499 machine either as you need a minimum of 512mb of ram to have a good system.
Mmmkay. The Mini comes with about $200 in software which makes the hardware about $300. Even in the PC world, you can get a minimal piece of crap PC for like $200. A copy of XP will run you about $150. So for your target price of $350^H^H49 you will get a bottom of the line PC with no real end user software. If that floats your boat, then a Mac is not targeted for someone like you. Go talk to someone at a computer retailer like CompUSA. Ask them the difference between PC buyers and Macs. PC buyers come in buy their cheap computer, and are forever coming back buying more crap for it. Typically, a Mac buyer comes in, buys their mac, and they never see them again.
Oh, and go look on ebay sometime for used computers. Compare the Macs to PCs, and then tell me if the initial purchase price was worth the extra couple of bucks.
Ive done anything from DivX encoding to heavy Fireworks editing on it, and Ive never really reached the point where I think 'hmmm time for some memory' - I have an iBook as well with 512mb ram, and they are both around the same sort of speed when doing the same things.
I wonder if they might come out with a model thats slightly larger to accomodate a TV Tuner (HDTV?), LCD/LED/VFD and IR receiver, and maybe even a 3.5" HD that'd be more suitable for video than the 2.5" notebook-size drive it uses now.
Of course that's entirely speculation/wish list.
it sounds like he bought the software at the same time as he bought the hardware. if so, the sales rep should have pointed out that the software wouldn't run on the machine he was buying. likely, the rep was more focused on earning the commission and not on servicing the customer.
sum.zero
but it's a nice little hard drive with a nice fast connection on it you can carry about with you. Feel free to shoot my down if I'm spouting gibberish, but maybe you could carry your desktop around on your iPod? Imagine a world with tiny Mac minis dotted about the place. Don't lug your laptop into Starbucks, just drop in your ipod the slot and whoosh, it's your PC. Maybe you're strolling through town and fancy some music, just pop your ipod into a public mac mini and stick a couple of iTunes albums on. You've got an ipod. You've built a desktop on it when you stumbled in for a coffee one day, why not buy a mac for your house as well? Basically, the ipod's pretty dumb by itself, but can hold a lot of your personal data. Drop it into any mac mini and suddenly it could be your machine.
So the consumer is not carrying around all their precious data and applications on a portable and vulnerable device?
If you don't notice the difference don't spend the money. But before you say it doesn't use more than 256 - check your system monitor.
Look at the amount of memory you are using and then check how often it is seeking the HD. Trust me - there is a HUGE difference between 256 and 512 (but optimum amount would be 768 or 1GB).
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
Apple stopped shipping docks with the ipods. Perhaps the 5gen ipods will still connect to windows pcs, but only dock to a mac? It would be a way to regain some "ipod exclusivity" for mac users?
"from the bricks to the booth...I predict the future like Cleo the psychic..."
But what you want personally doesnt matter, its what the apple people belive the MARKET wants..
Currently they belive the market does not.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
It's Apple they'll sell the "Addon" Dock for about $49.99..
Which would of cost 5c to add to the device in the first place, theres more then likely a port on the PCB board just not wired up...They'll add it backin as a "Special" Ipoq version in 2/3 months time...
Oh I never said it didnt USE 256mb ram, I jsut advised caution when following the advice of 'GET 512MB RAM!!!!' as its quite possible you may never need it. Chances are I will splashout and get a GB sometime in the near future.
Well, you can get a perfectly fine PC from Dell including screen for 578 euro's, the same amount that the Mini goes for if you count in the additional memory.
If you order online you get 512 MB of RAM, 80GB hard drive, DVD drive, CD-RW drive , 15" flat panel, mouse, keyboard and of course a 2.6 GHz Celery processor. This is currently including transport costs.
So, yes, the Apple is nicely priced , but you still need to see the benefits of the style, the os and the silence. Otherwise, you can get much better deals.
Damn son, slow down. Trying to see how many times you get bad mods in a single story? You may as well be one of those GNAA people...
You mean, you can read too!?!?
From the article:
Whether the Firewire feature was dropped from the first incarnation, or was put in place ready for the Mac's next revision isn't clear.
I'd be much more interest in a story about how many mini's can't seem to drive monitors correctly, instead of speculation on a dumb connector.
You may be closer to the truth than you know. Firewire is a DMA interface and can be used for remote debugging even if the machine has crashed. I believe Apple has a kit you can install to initiate this behavior from the kernel.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Shouldn't say publicly, but it's a small product design consulting firm in San Francisco. We help bridge the gap between good UI design/ID and economically viable mass production in China/Taiwan.
There's really quite a bit of subtlety in translating a high-design product idea into a high-build-quality consumer device that will actually be cheap enough to turn a profit. Takes a lot of experience dealing with ODMs, who in China are VERY good technically, but have little experience making decisions that relate to what Western consumers actually *want*. We help close that gap.
On the other hand, companies that design AND build in Asia are somewhat less beholden to the notion that one must cater to the absolute imbecile, and hence are more likely to implement cool peripheral features that American market-testing would cast aside as too complicated for the target audience. Hence the Japanese cellphones and iRiver music players.
As an example, a number of iRiver players and the iPods are both based the PortalPlayer platform -- start with an iPod and you get the slick out-of-box experience, but drill down into the iRiver firmware and you find a lot of random, cool little features that each might only interest 1% of the user base. Recording, special modes for language-learning materials, sleep-in-N-minutes, etc. Personally, I'm of the opinion that in firmware, more is better as long as it doesn't get in the way of usability. In any case, though, they're based on nearly identical core hardware.
Companies are finally starting to recover from the shock of the iPod's simplicity, and I think we'll start seeing more and more neat useful features and well-designed interfaces as time goes on. That's my main gripe about the iPod versus the Mac -- the Mac has a slick, simple interface with secondary access to good features. The iPod just has the slick simple interface, although the features are starting to show up, generation by generation. Just as it took a few years for cellphones to get to the point where people wanted to download ringtones and wallpaper, it will take a few more for people to figure out other neat ways that their music players can be useful to them.
Generally when I am asked about ram I always tell them to get as much as they can afford - especially in a machine with a slow HDD (like the mini). Another reason for that is it will take some pressure off the HDD and it might last a little bit longer than if it is being continually accessed every minute or so.
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
Or you could have a recessed area that could fit both an iPod and a Shuffle and then be covered or something.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
... is moving away from firewire support for the iPod in order to be more attractive to USB-2 friendly PCs, I doubt it's for the iPod.
Bark less. Wag more.
I've never understood what the point is of a docking station. Yes, it puts the iPod (or PDA) in a possition that I can read the information on the screen. But I would get that *and* the possibility of using the keys if it was lying flat on my desk. Difficult to knock over as well. I possitively hate the docking station that came with my Palm(s).
The only reason I see for including a docking station is for them to sell us a "special travel cable", which is basically a wire with their own proprietary connector. That and maybe supplying power, but a powered USB hub could handle that as well.
FireWire is the preferred interface for all iPods (except shuffle) since data transfer rates are faster than USB 2.0 (and FireWire is bootable). I'll spell it out for you: Apple still includes the FireWire interface on all non-flashed based iPods. Your post misinforms.
A review of Apple hardware reveals that there are often pieces of architecture that go into the product that are not used (iMac's mezzanine slot anyone?).
This is simply good engineering- they have supplied for future growth as opposed to needing a full redesign. Should we expect anything else from a company that finally seems to be getting it right again and again?
befuddled (noun) 1. Unable to create a pithy sig
"Mmmkay. The Mini comes with about $200 in software which makes the hardware about $300."
Bullshit. If that were the case, then you could call the $400 emachines PC "$200" because it includes Windows XP and Microsoft Works, a "$200" value.
If you buy a Pizza and it comes with a free DVD, the Pizza doesn't cost less. It's still the same price.
The Mini comes with iPhoto (similar to Picasa on PC, which is free), iDVD (similar to Sonic or other software included with most PCs), iTunes (free for PC), and iMovie (similar to Windows Movie Maker, also free).
The only app included with the Mini that's not included with most PCs is GarageBand. You can argue that the Mac apps are better, but claiming that their inclusion effectively lowers the price of the Mini is pure crap. Any way you slice it, it's still a $500 computer. And you can get a computer, monitor, keyboard / mouse, and printer for $400. It may not have the same GPU, or be as compact as the Mini, but it does the job for 95% of people who simply want to surf the net, read email, play some tunes, look at / send photos, and type documents.
"Oh, and go look on ebay sometime for used computers. Compare the Macs to PCs, and then tell me if the initial purchase price was worth the extra couple of bucks."
The resale value of both is pretty abysmal. 700MHz iBooks go for around $600; similar-age PC notebooks go for around $500. It's not a huge difrerence.
BestBuy.com is selling an eMachines system - computer, monitor, and printer - for $330 after rebates:
Celeron D 2.66GHz
256M PC2700 DDR
60GB 7200rpm HDD
CD-RW
Mouse, keyboard & speakers
17" Flat CRT
10/100 Ethernet
Compare the Mini:
PowerPC G4 1.25GHz
DVD/CD-RW combo drive
256M PC2700 DDR
40GB 5200rpm notebook HDD
10/100 Ethernet
Compared to the eMachines, the Mini:
- Has a better GPU
- Has a DVD drive
- Has FireWire
- Has iPhoto / iDVD / iMovie / GarageBand instead of Picasa (free) / Sonic MyDVD / Windows Movie Maker (possible advantage depending on use, though you're not going to be burning DVDs on either)
Compared to the Mini, the eMachines:
- Is $170 cheaper, not including keyboard/mouse/monitor/speakers
- Has a faster CPU
- Has a faster and larger HDD
- Has more USB ports
- Is more expandable
Don't be silly. This is not for the iPod. It's the controller for the Reality Distortion Field.
This simply is not true. I am running 10.3 on an original (AGP) G4/450MHz with 256MB ram. Safari has 15 windows open (never got the hang of tabbed browsing), preview has 4 pdf's (mostly rebates) open, and TextEdit is open for notetaking as I surf. This thing runs just fine.
bwaa aha haa haa ha haa haa haa haahahahaahah
corollary windows user:
i dont need more memory. i have a dos box, wordpad, and solitaire ALL open at the same time. RAWR!
Yeah, like that's any different from XP, which doesn't even begin to function properly until you have 256MB.
I really don't want to argue with you MS loonies, as I always wind up in an infinite recursion of stupid comments from you. Just admit that XP sucks ass compared to OSX.
Don't use the Troll mod just because you disagree with me.
> A copy of XP will run you about $150.
c ription=37-102-151&DEPA=6
XP home OEM is less than $100
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?des
Everyone keeps flipping out over the lack of a firewire cable and saying it means iPod+firewire is doomed, no, it is a freaking cable, and the cable would mean absolutely nothing if a dock was built in, which would connect directly to the iPod.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
It's firewire, and I remember reading that Apple is moving away from Firewire to USB2, as evidenced by the fact that you only get USB cables with your iPod now.
PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
dont take the 'must have 512mb ram minimum' crowd too seriously
From my experiences with Macs (limited, yes) they aren't horrible about hogging memory over time like Windows machines. So, if you don't want to do anything with videoediting or running a lot of programs at once, then 256mb should be perfect for you. For those of us that run Safari, Photoshop, and other programs all at the same time, 512 makes everything run much smoother.
>Well, you can get a perfectly fine PC from Dell including screen for 578 euro's, the same amount that the Mini goes for
I see you are completely leaving out the value of the software they include on the Mac mini. iLife is useful. Many, many, people that use personal computers these days use them for tasks that iLife makes a joy to perform. Dell can keep their ass monitor. I'll take the good software and attach my own monitor, thanks.
I'm sorry, I've tried to like the mini, I really have, but I must say that I am disappointed. Now, the keyboard doesn't map well, there is several important characters that I am unable to type. The USB harddrive is not recognized, and I know I am doing all things right, I've tried asking in several boards and fought with it for days to work. It won't. And then, my wireless networkcard has no drivers for it.
So this whole machine is pretty much useless to me. I'm really bummed by this, and I still like this machine alot, but I am only going to fire it up once more before I sell it on ebay. Am I going to buy a macintosh at a later day? Not very likely.
Does anyone know of anyone making add-ons (I'm mainly thinking of an external 3.5" hard drive enclosure) that are the same form factor as the mini? This seems like a no brainer to me. You could stack 'em then. It's just the right size for an external enclosure...
Madness takes its toll. Exact change please.
He's probably also leaving out the cost of the anti-virus software and such, as well as ignoring the fact that the 587 euro Dell has integrated video with *shared* memory.
So many trolls & flamebaits, so few mod points...
Don't use the Troll mod just because you disagree with me.
the logic behind the dock connector, as i see it, is in the third party support.
the original ipod's remote connector and standard firewire connection limited its potential to connect to anything but third party remote replacements and, though i don't recall anyone doing so, some clever hacks based on firewire.
with the dock, apple supplies the third parties with a way to get line in and out (not just headphone, but line level, which is important), power, and all kinds of other goodies.
it is a proprietary connector, and one that doesn't exist on any other device, but i think it's safe to say, even with the original dock-connected ipod, that apple could count on enough demand for ipods that they would create a demand for the third party peripherals to jump on board.
it also opened up the possibility to use other means to connect your ipod than firewire - USB, for instance (maybe wirelessly with the right adapter someday) without having to ugly up the lines of the ipod with more and more ports most people wouldn't use. or, for that matter, branching the line with different flavors for different connectors. with a dock-connected ipod, you can connect over USB or firewire, plug in an FM transmitter, microphone, speakers, CF card reader, battery pack, even a laser pointer and flashlight - not at the same time, mind you. if apple had built all that, or even a couple of different, more industry-standard connectors into the ipod itself, it would never have been the jobsian elegant bar-of-soap that it is.
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
and he is surprised?!?
Name one store which will accept returns of opened software. One. If you can name one, then just maybe this guy has a valid complaint and the folks at the Apple Store should have refunded this guy his software. Otherwise, that there is a troll. You can't think of one? Of course not.
Other folks have pointed it out, but if he needs Motion, he wants to buy one of these for $1499, not one of these for $499. My advice ? Return the Mini and get a PowerMac, you'll be happy you did... it's worth the money, and if you're buying $300 software packages, you have the money.
OH DAMNATION!!
Where did I leave my troll-killing flamethrower, anyway??
Don't use the Troll mod just because you disagree with me.
And yet still is and always will be an eMachines piece of crap. At the end of the day when it's all said and done you get what you pay for. You can buy this cheap PC or you can pay $170 more and get a Mac Mini. On one you can run OSX and on the other you get XP Home which you can of course replace with your favorite flavor of Linux if you are so inclined.
It's a personal decision I think. To my way of thinking pretty much anything capable of running OSX is going to be the way to go over anything else even remotely close in price. The hardware arguments you make seem to be very compelling on the surface but they're not enough to make me replace my OS with anything that runs on x86.
My final thought on this is that those 95% of people you speak of "who simply want to surf the net, read email, play some tunes, look at / send photos, and type documents" would have a much better time of it on the Mini. I've been in both camps (Win/Mac) and for those 95% there's no comparison. The software is simply that much better. The software that comes bundled with your typical PC is mostly crap.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
The eMachines unit you mentioned does NOT have a faster CPU. The rule of thumb for comparing clock speeds is:
1 G4 = 1.2 AMD = 1.6 P4 = 2 Celeron
So for the base mini
1.25 G4 = 1.5 AMD = 2.0 P4 = 2.5 Celeron
And for the faster mini
1.4 G4 = 1.7 AMD = 2.2 P4 = 2.8 Celeron
Your example box also does not play DVDs. Also you mentioned the GPU, but didn't say what it was. Wouldn't surprise me if the PC's video card robs system memory (that's pretty common on lower end PCs)
-- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
Apple spends lots of effort trying to make people believe that they are "different", but when the shit hits the fan, they are just like everyone else, but more expensive and propriatery.
As an Apple non-user, I would expect that all software currently being sold would work with all apple hardware currently being sold.
After all, apple presents an image of monolithic "smoothness" and "oneness". Not to mention "zenness", "coolness", "hipness", and gender ambivalence.
Apple pushes the "This computer is simple, it just works" meme at every opportunity. Apple advertising implies that the user will have a seamless experience with no effort on their part.
Based on the apple image, I would not expect to have to read the fine print on software requierments. Based on all the expectations that apple instills in the consumer, the fact that the software does not work on the mini, and that apple doesn't make that fully , unmistakeably obvious everwhere, INCLUDING AT THE POINT OF PURCHASE shows again that the Emperor is still stark fucking naked.
If your comment was about a PC hardware user or a Linux user having an issue because they did not research a product fully for compatibility before they bought it, your point would be valid. PC hardware is not sold and advertised as being thought and analysis free.
Apple, however, has been making ads which imply that their products "just work", and that is obviously not the case.
Oh, and yes, be sure to mod me down for refusing to bow down to the Cult of the Mac. Heaven forbid that someone should disturb the serenity of the Echo Chamber, or put a warp in the fabric of the reality distortion field.
Feh.
There were a bunch of connectors inside the G1 iMacs that had no external connections; it would not surprise me that there are additional connections inside the mini.
It seems a little hasty to call this a proto ipod dock without a little more evidence than the firewire lines. Now, hack up a dock interface, then we're talking. People made SCSI cards for the mezzanine slot; this just sounds like guessing to me.
+++ ATH0 +++
is this going to be followed by a lawsuit by Apple for revealing "Trade Secrets"?
... when future versions of the iPod are likely to feature BlueTooth connectivity?
Not reading the literature is probably also what prompted you to buy a $100,000 Honda....
and get walked all over by cars half the price.
"But the shifter, it feels so good! The anemic lack of power doesn't bother me ONE BIT," you probably tell yourself at night.
You're a fucking tool, man.
And you ignore it has a monitor!
Anti-Virus software is free, spyware software is free, use firefox, use thunderbird.
Chances are, the Dell can have a graphics card put into it to if you do want more graphics performance.
What's the transmission rate on bluetooth? Seems like the perfect Apple-centric design would be a bluetooth iPod rather than a clunky docking station. Although it'd require adding bluetooth to your mac if you don't already have it.
So you are saying the G4 is faster clock for clock than an Athlon? Hahahahah!
The G5 is WAY faster than a G4 clock for clock right? And the G5 is basically the same as the new Athlon64s. Oddly, that makes them faster clock for clock. And they aren't that much faster clock for clock than the original Athlon!
578 Euro == 762 USD
I don't think a 15-inch flat panel makes up for XP home edition and a bulky loud case with shared memory.
I shudder to think that my work might be buying Emachines for our desktop replacements...We have over 800 users. And four techs. Ack. It will be a nightmare in 2-3 years, if not sooner.
I'm looking for another job as we speak.
Maybe we DID take the blue pill. You wouldn't remember anyway.
Yes, you are right about the software and the shared memory. For most home users this would not be such a big deal. Shared memory is fine as long as you don't play games, even though it also slows system performance.
But there are many posts around that claim 500 euro/dollar (yes, I know USD != EUR but they will sell it 1:1 anyway) is such a good deal. There are many computers out there that offer at least the same.
The fan used in Dell computers is not that noisy (we've got a lot at work) as long as you don't use the processor at 100%. Dell servers though...yuk.
Just as an interesting data point: a 300mhz G3 clamshell iBook with 128mb of RAM will run 10.3, so long as you only ask it to run Safari. We keep it in the living room as a quicky Web station, connected to the I'net with an Airport card.
These machines are old and slow enough you can sometimes find friends or family giving them away. That's how we got ours.
Not to say that I wouldn't mind a bit more memory. Sometimes multiple tabs will engage swapping. And you have to leave the screen at 16-bit or the UI drags some. But it's pretty impressive to see this machine running at all.
(The best solution would be to run 9.2.2, but all of the browsers for OS 9 suck ass.)
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
Kodak does exactly that with their digital camera docks.
.
Unfortunately, the camerat didn't react well to water . .
hawk
Sigh!... One more for the trolls... Yes, the G5 (aka 970) and Athlon64 are 64 bit post-risc processors. Yes, they have quite a lot in common. No, they are NOT basically the same.
Ars Technica has run many articles explaining and contrasting the various architechtures. Here's somthing to get you started:
-- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
If you're going to use the fancy words, go to http://www.dictionary.com for proper spelling.
I can only assume you've never actually used the iApps and the Windows alternatives you cite, because the difference in quality (with the exception of iTunes, for obvious reasons) is so high that I don't even think you should make the comparison. Furthermore, at least with my PowerBook, I also got Omnigraffle, iCal, GarageBand, OmniOutliner and Stickies all pre-loaded. Plus Xcode and Interface Builder on the CD.
Most importantly, Macs come with the full version of OS X, not the "Win XP Home" that your Best Buy example probably loads by default.
In addition, I think you're wrong about your iBook/PC laptop comparison. If you compare similarly priced machines from similar eras, I think you'll find that Macs hold their values better. No, I don't feel like getting in even more of a "mine is bigger than yours" contest, but you might want to post some actual comparisons before you make incorrect generalizations.
As usual, of course, you should use whatever computer and system make you happy. If you want the Best Buy special, go for it; just don't go spreading old Apple FUD.
"With Apple iProducts and iMiniProducts, random fruitless speculation is easy and fun!"
I use a G4 400Mhz with 10.3.something and 256MB of memory, and it's perfectly usuable too. To compare with a PC, it's more like Windows 2000 - it's happier with 512MB, but it'll run fine with 256MB. Not like XP, which does a lot of disk grinding with 256MB.
I do have most of the eye candy off though in OSX, if it makes a difference.
XP and OSX are both memory hogs that I wouldn't use on anything with less than half a gig of ram if I had a choice. (I do, which is why I have a gig in my PC.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
However, it's absolutely agonizing to even try to work on those machines, let alone get actual work done on them. Even when they're entirely free from spyware it feels like windows 3.1 on a 286.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
he was simply an inept employee and missed agreat opportunity to provide valuable service to a a new [SWITCH] customer and potentially generate subsequent business.
sum.zero
I downloaded the official docs from Apple somewhere. Those docs tell you to grind your putty knife to have a thinner leading edge. I wish I had done this. It was not as easy as some of the websites make it out to be. I am fairly mechanically inclined and it took me a half an hour to get the thing open the first time. Admittedly I was trying to be careful to not mar or break it, but it is not a 10 second job.
Lasers Controlled Games!
In-dash car stereo. Think about it.
Not likely, but a WiFi iPod that did the Airtunes thing would be conceivable. You'd still have a dock, though, as a charging station if nothing else.
Just superglue a Dock onto the top of the Mini, and plug it in the back. Perfect!
I know you can put a whole OS on, but the drive as has been mentioned isn't really fast enough for that. I was thinking more along the lines of:
Apple now have a pretty complete suite of apps and you could chuck in office. A world full of auto updating mini machines with the basic suite and OS, the data on which couldn't be updated by a user. Your ipod would contain the users documents/music/email/email logins/other apps etc. I'm not really a Mac person, but was thinking along the lines of your user folder on an XP machine.
Good customer service helps people out overcome mistakes. Bad customer service blames people for mistakes.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I use Dells at work too. Fan noise between the Mac mini and what Dell puts in its low-cost models is night and day.
The exchange rate is fixed by world markets. Slashdot posters can't change that.
I like that the Mac mini also gives you a SuperDrive (a.k.a., DVD+/-RW) for the equivalent price.
Shared memory is really bad under XP. If your work computers use it, you might want to have management reconsider their purchasing agent.
Hilarious. Nothing in the message warrants the rating except the outright idiocy of Slashdot's moderation system which serves only self-righteous bigots.
/. has become so pathetic. Whats next? A MoveOn.org spin off?
How this get modded as a troll?