If an application simply does not deal with the copy/paste facility of X properly, it will do so running on any OS that uses X, correct? Are the applications screwing up copy/paste, or is the X copy/paste so screwed up no one can use it correctly? I don't program much on X (yet, anyway) so don't know if copy/paste is supposed to be in X or not, so some enlightenment is appreciated (yes, I intended that one, you E17 fans).
IMHO, the necessity of dealing with copy/paste should be removed from the application - it should be the sole responsibility of X. If that can't be done, a braindead simple Copy/Paste API should be put in place so that any programmer who messes it up would be embarassed into not screwing up again. That way, whatever desktop or window manager you use, it just works, and works the same way in any application.
This goes back to the initial problem - who the fuck cares where the problem actually is - let's find it and fix it for once and for all.
Anybody thinks MS is weaker today because the last 5 years was "the year of linux"?
Kind of.
(1999) Slashbot: "This is teh year of Linux!!!!" Customer: "What's Linux?" Microsoft: "What's Linux? *CHACHING*"
(2000) Slashbot: "This is teh year of Linux!!!!" Customer: "Linux? Geek toy." Microsoft: "Linux? Pffft. *CHACHING*"
(2001) Slashbot: "This is teh year of Linux!!!!" Customer: "Gah, viruses - no time to look!!" Microsoft: "Ya, sure. We heard some of our customers ask about it in passing. *chaching*"
(2002) Slashbot: "This is teh year of Linux!!!!" IBM: "Dude, learn how to spell..." Customer: "IBM? Linux? Lemme see what this is all about, OK?" Microsoft: "Hmmmm... You guys are getting irritating for our salesdroids. Cut it out or we'll FUD you to death. *CHACHING*"
(2003) Slashbot: "This is the year of Linux!!!!" Customer: "Nice, but not yet. This needs fixing here, and this over here could be..." Microsoft: "Whoa now, this is getting serious. Send out the Marketing Dept. FUD riders!!! *chaching*"
(2004) Slashbot: "This is the year of Linux." Customer: "Hey, this Linux thingy is worth looking at now - still kinds rough in spots though. Can it do $FUNCTION1? Cool. And $FUNCTION2? What about $FUNCTIONn..." Microsoft: "WTF??? The FUD Riders failed? Call in the Tactical Lawsuits - we're in trouble! *chaching?*"
Weaker? Probably not. However, Microsofts feet are being held to the fire by the interest Linux is creating - you can be sure of that.
You subscribed to Slashdot, you picked a nick like AssProphet, , you haven't been here that long and you expect me to share your moral outrage at the lameness of michael's story selections.
Wow. Seeing that means my day wasn't that bad after all. Thanks!
Sure. So is the Fedora project (though you could call them "RedHat", and not be too far off).
I rely on then for providing me a rock-stable, thoroughly tested distribution and any security upates to that distribution.
I, in turn, (since I'm not a really good coder) spread the good word that these people know what they're doing. If I find a bug or security vulnerability, I report it to them ASAP. I also test out thier new stuff, and report bugs and such for them, and suggest ways that thye might improve thier products.
They give me something, I pay them in the currency they want. They are indeed a vendor.
Too much attention has been given to linux on the desktop. In the battle against software oppresion, the first front is destroying the onld UNIX systems. Linux hurts the Windows monopoly more by having people who are switching from UNIX to Linux that from UNIX to the Win NT family. Thats where most of the effort should be applied (because thats where technology can actually be compared).
Ummmm... I'd say it is doing exactly that - witness what's happened to Sun and SCO, both of whom are getting hurt badly by Linux. Microsoft is in a nip-and-tuck battle for server share too - their sales have grown, but not nearly as quickly as Linux has.
Winning the desktop has nothing to do with who has the best technology of user interface. It has all to do with leveraging corporate power. Once many corporations are united with Linux on the server side, their corporate power will allow linux to take over the deskop, regardless of how good the software is. Apple has shown that it doesn't require a Herculian effort to make a usable desktop on a UNIX variant. Why are we wasting our resources?
Understandable, but I think keeping the LotD issue in the forefront is taking a page out of BillG's business strategy book. That is: - Linux's core market is servers. - Microsoft trys to muscle in on that market, so Linux says "OK, buddy" and attacks Microsofts core market, the desktop. - Now, Microsoft must split resources to defend thier core market as well as advance on the new one - If Microsoft pushes to hard on the server front, they could lose thier huge dominance of the desktop market. Very bad for them. - if they defend the desktop market too strenuously, they won't make the headway they want on the server market. Still bad for them, as thier share price is predicated on huge growth.
Microsoft has used this strategy before - they almost buried Novell this way. Novell had WordPerfect Office, so Microsoft ramped up Windows NT server development and took on NetWare.
Turn about is fair play. Let's see how Microsoft handles a credible threat to thier core business that they can't just buy, bury or wish away.
Where we've been determines where we're going. "Those who don't pay attention to history are doomed to repeat it" and all that. Use that machine, so you can see why things developed the way they did - maybe you'll avoid some of the miskates made prior to you.
That 33/66 you have contains half of the reasons things are the way they are now. Your new Athlon64 can run DOS, after all, just like the old stuff. Study the older machines, friend, they'll show you much about today's "new" technology.
News flash - Australia is NOT part of the US. It is a foreign nation!
Foreign to whom?
Sorry to pick nits here, but Australia is a sovereign nation, in that it has it's own laws and constitution and such. You know, things that frustrate the current US administration in thier attempts to bring "freedom" to the rest of the world.
You know, I don't bash Microsoft for thier products or thier successes. (Well, OK, I do spin out about Win9X now and again, and if it's crap I just don't buy it, but I digress... ) I too use thier products on a regular basis, and actually like Windows XP.
What I don't like is the fact that they are trying to lock up the whole of the IT industry for themselves, and to some extent are being succesful at doing just that.
When Microsoft shows that they want a vibrant, eclectic industry - with many different ideas that aren't just thiers - to flourish, for the sake of the industry and thier fellow humans and not just for the sake of thier bottom line, I'll re-think my opinion. Until they demonstrate that in material means, I'll keep a wary, very critical eye on them, thankyouverymuch.
IIRC, they can't do that or they'll be in direct violation of the deal with the DOJ that Judge Kolter-Kelly approved of.
Microsoft has gotten away with some underhanded skuldudgery it seems (*spares the/. readers a link to a page about SCO*), but punishing HP would be out-and-out defiance. That would bring on a legal smackdown, I think.
Bill and Steve better but some more asprin - I think they'll need it in the not too distant future.
I mean, a Clippy for college campuses, disembodied from MS Office?
It looks like you're drunk and lost. Would you:
- like directions back to the dorm - like directions to the nearest park bench - like directions to the nearest sorority party - like another beer or - like directions to Cowboy Neal's house?
Say "More" for more options, "OK" to choose one or "Go Away" and I'll leave you alone. Until I see you peeing in a bush, when I get to be helpful again!
Sorry, Fuck Off isn't one of the options. Here they are again.
They've built their entire market strategy around this idea; Just try to ask your Microsoft rep about any one product. The conversation may start with InfoPath, Sharepoint, Office, whatever, but will undoubtedly end up with discussions on Server 2003, MS SQL, Exchange, Commerce Server, ad infinitum until you have seen every single, poorly designed intertwined product they own. The truth is, Microsoft is right - their products only work well with each other.
This is so true it hurts.
Anecdote begin
Back when Windows 2000 was about to be released, I had a big problem with a NT server. I was in a newspaper - a multi-platform shop that happens to have a daily deadline. Besides the PCs running Windows for business functions, there were lots of Macs in the creative and news rooms, along with various other servers on other OSes in the data centre. Anyway, the NT machines (fully patched and updated) kept on corrupting the Servies For Mac file index - and I kept on trying to rebuild it. I called MS support for $200 (or whatever it was) and complained about this problem, and even had an idea for them to pursue in order to possibly get a quick solution. After the "Let me ask my colleague" response from the MS techie, he forgot to turn off the mic. I overheard his colleague snidely remark "Tell him to ditch the Macs. Haha". I knew then that I wasn't about to get any help, since my company had the unmittigated gaul to use Macs instead of Windows.
I bought a server operating system from them for tidy sum, and they were making a joke about wanting to use something else besides thier OS for the clients of that server. Never mind the millions invested in Apple hardware, software, training and methods - they made a joke about thier OS holding up a deadline. To boot, I got the "Upgrade to 2000 when it comes out, SFM is 10X better" line. Nice, since all of the NT boxes were DEC Alphas, for which Windows 2000 support had just been pulled. They wanted me to spend millions in "upgrades", in order to fix a bug in their code. And I paid for the privilege of having them tell me that.
Microsoft earned my eternal scorn that day.
Rant^WAnecdote end.
Microsoft has gotten very, very arrogant - to the point that they believe that no one else on the planet is capable of a good idea. They make some good products to be sure, but whenever and wherever I can, I push OSS solutions ahead of Microsoft solutions, so I can still pick and choose what tools I deploy with a minimum of fuss about whose product that tool is. RedHat 7.2 is still a nice OS on an old AlphaServer 3305, and it doesn't discriminate as to what OS it provides services for. It just does exactly what you ask it to, and asks for precious little in return.
Slashdot Mirror
I never would have guessed that a slug would have big neurons... does anyone have any idea why this would be?
Well, lawyers do need to regurgitate a lot of legal precedent at judges. And how else would Darl remember all those millions of lines of code?
Soko
Heh.
That would be STFU, bud.
(Sheer Terror Fluid Underwear, for those not versed in TLAs)
Soko
Sorry, you lost me there.
If an application simply does not deal with the copy/paste facility of X properly, it will do so running on any OS that uses X, correct? Are the applications screwing up copy/paste, or is the X copy/paste so screwed up no one can use it correctly? I don't program much on X (yet, anyway) so don't know if copy/paste is supposed to be in X or not, so some enlightenment is appreciated (yes, I intended that one, you E17 fans).
IMHO, the necessity of dealing with copy/paste should be removed from the application - it should be the sole responsibility of X. If that can't be done, a braindead simple Copy/Paste API should be put in place so that any programmer who messes it up would be embarassed into not screwing up again. That way, whatever desktop or window manager you use, it just works, and works the same way in any application.
This goes back to the initial problem - who the fuck cares where the problem actually is - let's find it and fix it for once and for all.
Soko
Hmmm.... dunno 'bout that, dude.
Depends on which end of the disection scalpel he's on.
Soko
...sure as hell wouldn't (and shouldn't) an underpants gnome.
Ech - I need to go wash my mind now.
Soko
Anybody thinks MS is weaker today because the last 5 years was "the year of linux"?
Kind of.
(1999)
Slashbot: "This is teh year of Linux!!!!"
Customer: "What's Linux?"
Microsoft: "What's Linux? *CHACHING*"
(2000)
Slashbot: "This is teh year of Linux!!!!"
Customer: "Linux? Geek toy."
Microsoft: "Linux? Pffft. *CHACHING*"
(2001)
Slashbot: "This is teh year of Linux!!!!"
Customer: "Gah, viruses - no time to look!!"
Microsoft: "Ya, sure. We heard some of our customers ask about it in passing. *chaching*"
(2002)
Slashbot: "This is teh year of Linux!!!!"
IBM: "Dude, learn how to spell..."
Customer: "IBM? Linux? Lemme see what this is all about, OK?"
Microsoft: "Hmmmm... You guys are getting irritating for our salesdroids. Cut it out or we'll FUD you to death. *CHACHING*"
(2003)
Slashbot: "This is the year of Linux!!!!"
Customer: "Nice, but not yet. This needs fixing here, and this over here could be..."
Microsoft: "Whoa now, this is getting serious. Send out the Marketing Dept. FUD riders!!! *chaching*"
(2004)
Slashbot: "This is the year of Linux."
Customer: "Hey, this Linux thingy is worth looking at now - still kinds rough in spots though. Can it do $FUNCTION1? Cool. And $FUNCTION2? What about $FUNCTIONn..."
Microsoft: "WTF??? The FUD Riders failed? Call in the Tactical Lawsuits - we're in trouble! *chaching?*"
Weaker? Probably not. However, Microsofts feet are being held to the fire by the interest Linux is creating - you can be sure of that.
Soko
Netcat as well, seeing as we're going old-school here.
Soko
Dude.
You subscribed to Slashdot, you picked a nick like AssProphet, , you haven't been here that long and you expect me to share your moral outrage at the lameness of michael's story selections.
Wow. Seeing that means my day wasn't that bad after all. Thanks!
Soko
Sure. So is the Fedora project (though you could call them "RedHat", and not be too far off).
I rely on then for providing me a rock-stable, thoroughly tested distribution and any security upates to that distribution.
I, in turn, (since I'm not a really good coder) spread the good word that these people know what they're doing. If I find a bug or security vulnerability, I report it to them ASAP. I also test out thier new stuff, and report bugs and such for them, and suggest ways that thye might improve thier products.
They give me something, I pay them in the currency they want. They are indeed a vendor.
Soko
Too much attention has been given to linux on the desktop. In the battle against software oppresion, the first front is destroying the onld UNIX systems. Linux hurts the Windows monopoly more by having people who are switching from UNIX to Linux that from UNIX to the Win NT family. Thats where most of the effort should be applied (because thats where technology can actually be compared).
Ummmm... I'd say it is doing exactly that - witness what's happened to Sun and SCO, both of whom are getting hurt badly by Linux. Microsoft is in a nip-and-tuck battle for server share too - their sales have grown, but not nearly as quickly as Linux has.
Winning the desktop has nothing to do with who has the best technology of user interface. It has all to do with leveraging corporate power. Once many corporations are united with Linux on the server side, their corporate power will allow linux to take over the deskop, regardless of how good the software is. Apple has shown that it doesn't require a Herculian effort to make a usable desktop on a UNIX variant. Why are we wasting our resources?
Understandable, but I think keeping the LotD issue in the forefront is taking a page out of BillG's business strategy book. That is:
- Linux's core market is servers.
- Microsoft trys to muscle in on that market, so Linux says "OK, buddy" and attacks Microsofts core market, the desktop.
- Now, Microsoft must split resources to defend thier core market as well as advance on the new one
- If Microsoft pushes to hard on the server front, they could lose thier huge dominance of the desktop market. Very bad for them.
- if they defend the desktop market too strenuously, they won't make the headway they want on the server market. Still bad for them, as thier share price is predicated on huge growth.
Microsoft has used this strategy before - they almost buried Novell this way. Novell had WordPerfect Office, so Microsoft ramped up Windows NT server development and took on NetWare.
Turn about is fair play. Let's see how Microsoft handles a credible threat to thier core business that they can't just buy, bury or wish away.
Soko
Flat out wrong.
Where we've been determines where we're going. "Those who don't pay attention to history are doomed to repeat it" and all that. Use that machine, so you can see why things developed the way they did - maybe you'll avoid some of the miskates made prior to you.
That 33/66 you have contains half of the reasons things are the way they are now. Your new Athlon64 can run DOS, after all, just like the old stuff. Study the older machines, friend, they'll show you much about today's "new" technology.
Soko
I'm no April Fool, bud. Pffft.
No one will believe a Mac user has a sense of humour.
Soko
News flash - Australia is NOT part of the US. It is a foreign nation!
Foreign to whom?
Sorry to pick nits here, but Australia is a sovereign nation, in that it has it's own laws and constitution and such. You know, things that frustrate the current US administration in thier attempts to bring "freedom" to the rest of the world.
Soko
You know, I don't bash Microsoft for thier products or thier successes. (Well, OK, I do spin out about Win9X now and again, and if it's crap I just don't buy it, but I digress... ) I too use thier products on a regular basis, and actually like Windows XP.
What I don't like is the fact that they are trying to lock up the whole of the IT industry for themselves, and to some extent are being succesful at doing just that.
When Microsoft shows that they want a vibrant, eclectic industry - with many different ideas that aren't just thiers - to flourish, for the sake of the industry and thier fellow humans and not just for the sake of thier bottom line, I'll re-think my opinion. Until they demonstrate that in material means, I'll keep a wary, very critical eye on them, thankyouverymuch.
Soko
IIRC, they can't do that or they'll be in direct violation of the deal with the DOJ that Judge Kolter-Kelly approved of.
/. readers a link to a page about SCO*), but punishing HP would be out-and-out defiance. That would bring on a legal smackdown, I think.
Microsoft has gotten away with some underhanded skuldudgery it seems (*spares the
Bill and Steve better but some more asprin - I think they'll need it in the not too distant future.
Soko
Extra GBs cost CAN$10 each
...which in $US is more or less free. :P
I'm willing to pay for good services that I can actually use, BTW.
Soko
I love the way Microsoft follows standards. In much the same manner that fish follow migrating caribou.
/me bows in reverence
Paul Tomblin
You are my God.
Soko
Try here: Memorable Quotes from Alt.Sysadmin.Recovery.
.sig comes from?
Guess where my
Soko
Being from Canada, eh, I use this stuff for cracks. Keeps them hosers from stealing my beer and smokes, eh?
Soko
I just can't accept this at all.
I mean, a Clippy for college campuses, disembodied from MS Office?
It looks like you're drunk and lost. Would you:
- like directions back to the dorm
- like directions to the nearest park bench
- like directions to the nearest sorority party
- like another beer
or
- like directions to Cowboy Neal's house?
Say "More" for more options, "OK" to choose one or "Go Away" and I'll leave you alone. Until I see you peeing in a bush, when I get to be helpful again!
Sorry, Fuck Off isn't one of the options. Here they are again.
It looks like you're drunk and lost...
Soko
Does this mean that any piece of closed-source software is a threat fo (sic) Free Speech?
Is it, now, right this moment? I really don't know for certain.
Could it be in the future? You bet.
Keeping the source open pretty well ensures that the software I use only serves my purposes, not anyone elses.
Soko
They've built their entire market strategy around this idea; Just try to ask your Microsoft rep about any one product. The conversation may start with InfoPath, Sharepoint, Office, whatever, but will undoubtedly end up with discussions on Server 2003, MS SQL, Exchange, Commerce Server, ad infinitum until you have seen every single, poorly designed intertwined product they own. The truth is, Microsoft is right - their products only work well with each other.
This is so true it hurts.
Anecdote begin
Back when Windows 2000 was about to be released, I had a big problem with a NT server. I was in a newspaper - a multi-platform shop that happens to have a daily deadline. Besides the PCs running Windows for business functions, there were lots of Macs in the creative and news rooms, along with various other servers on other OSes in the data centre. Anyway, the NT machines (fully patched and updated) kept on corrupting the Servies For Mac file index - and I kept on trying to rebuild it. I called MS support for $200 (or whatever it was) and complained about this problem, and even had an idea for them to pursue in order to possibly get a quick solution. After the "Let me ask my colleague" response from the MS techie, he forgot to turn off the mic. I overheard his colleague snidely remark "Tell him to ditch the Macs. Haha". I knew then that I wasn't about to get any help, since my company had the unmittigated gaul to use Macs instead of Windows.
I bought a server operating system from them for tidy sum, and they were making a joke about wanting to use something else besides thier OS for the clients of that server. Never mind the millions invested in Apple hardware, software, training and methods - they made a joke about thier OS holding up a deadline. To boot, I got the "Upgrade to 2000 when it comes out, SFM is 10X better" line. Nice, since all of the NT boxes were DEC Alphas, for which Windows 2000 support had just been pulled. They wanted me to spend millions in "upgrades", in order to fix a bug in their code. And I paid for the privilege of having them tell me that.
Microsoft earned my eternal scorn that day.
Rant^WAnecdote end.
Microsoft has gotten very, very arrogant - to the point that they believe that no one else on the planet is capable of a good idea. They make some good products to be sure, but whenever and wherever I can, I push OSS solutions ahead of Microsoft solutions, so I can still pick and choose what tools I deploy with a minimum of fuss about whose product that tool is. RedHat 7.2 is still a nice OS on an old AlphaServer 3305, and it doesn't discriminate as to what OS it provides services for. It just does exactly what you ask it to, and asks for precious little in return.
Soko
Odd couple?
I don't think they're that different. Sounds like a match made in security hell.
Soko
Ummm... CPAN? Ohhhh, I see - And make our congressmen code monkeys. - laws written in Perl. Might be more understandable then. :P
(BTW, it's CSPAN. I know that and I'm even Canadian.)
Soko
Here, at the bottom.
Soko