Fido Launches New Broadband Wireless Access

bug-eyed monster writes "Fido is launching a new wireless internet service with 'Download at speeds of up to 2.2 Mbps,' in Richmond BC and Cumberland ON. It uses a special modem that plugs into a regular network card. The technology providers' websites, Microcell and Inukshuk, inform us that the service uses Multipoint Communications Systems (radio-based) in the 2500 MHz range. The modem can be used anywhere within Richmond and 'up to 2.5km away from any network base station' (no idea if it can also run on batteries). Of course, this is all torture for me since I live next-door in Vancouver, just out of reach of the network."

Comments

When you say Fido

[Anonymous Coward]

I think FidoNet. And then I get sad.

Re:When you say Fido

[Amiga Lover]

I don't. their ridiculous fees, even after internet access was well entrenched just kept dragging things down until nobody used it.

I'm not sorry to see FidoNet gone

Re:When you say Fido

[Anonymous Coward]

Fees were a local net issue, and in most nets were only cover the costs of long distance. My local net dropped fees when internet transport of mail became reasonable.

Re:When you say Fido

[Anonymous Coward]

I do too, a little. I hung around as a node until 1999, when I left in disgust. About the only traffic coming through by then was scads of kiddie pr0n, with anything useful making up nothing but background noise.

It's a pity after the wonderful job it did keeping me in touch with the world in the late 1980s.

Re:When you say Fido

[Vskye]

Well, I think the original thread should be
modded up since the first thing I thought of
when seeing this article was the "Fidonet", which
existed way prior to the internet. Accessing the
net back then .. when it started was normally via
a 300 baud modem connect to a local collage VAC
system, and then only with a terminal program,
and that would allow you to ftp to sunsite and
such. Off my ramp now, FidoNet was a good thing
even though the phone bills could set you back
hundreds of U.S. dollars a month. (trust me on this!) I've personally known of a few eastern
hubs that would pass mail to europe and have
bills that would be over $1k U.S. a month. (and
people bitch about their $100 a month inet connection...!)

Re:When you say Fido

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, my parents weren't happy with my calls to Russia... But they had some good software I really wanted. I didn't understand why they were so upset, I did have the money to pay the phone bill.

Re:When you say Fido

[Fortyseven]

Prior to the internet's mainstream popularity, you mean. ;)

But yeah, that was the first thing I thought of. Visions of free user-supported wireless internet from one side of the globe to the other danced in my head. Email taking over a day to get anywhere...Quake matches taking a lifetime...almost like the ping from here to Mars.

Re:When you say Fido

[kommakazi]

Accessing the net back then .. when it started was normally via a 300 baud modem connect to a local collage VAC system, and then only with a terminal program, and that would allow you to ftp to sunsite and such.
When I was a kid I used to walk 5 miles to school uphill both ways through the worst blizzrd of the century every day - and I liked it.

Re:When you say Fido

[Anonymous Coward]

No, before the internet. Fidonet existed in 1984, which preceded the internet by almost 10 years.

Re:When you say Fido

[jellomizer]

Please Press Esc twice to login.

Ahhh. Those were the days. That was actually my first internet email address was threw Fidonet. It was ungodly long but I was the first person on my block/ probably town to get an internet email address. Ahh memories where peoples biggest problems were that they couldn't use Windows 3.1 (Back in the old days you loaded windows on top of DOS) and dial out because their mouse and modem were on the same com port. Good times.... Good times....

Re:When you say Fido

[Anonymous Coward]

"when it started was normally via
a 300 baud modem connect to a local collage VAC
system, and then only with a terminal program..."

There's no sugarcoating this: The DEC VAC just plain sucked.

Re:When you say Fido

[Fortyseven]

Cute.

Inukshuk's Logo?

[FractusMan]

"Now The People Will Know We Were Here."

Re:Inukshuk's Logo?

[AusG4]

LOL .. if I had the points, I'd mod this funny right now. Few outside of the true north will get it though, hence the current 1 point. :)

Torture

[agildehaus]

This tortures me and I live in Saint Louis, Missouri.

Re:Torture

[mrmorden]

Hah!

I never thought I would feel so lucky to be moving back to Richmond in two weeks!

Re:Torture

[legend]

You should check out http://www.awirelessgateway.com/

Competition?

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

I'm curious to know if this is one of those "only option available" or if these guys are providing real competition.
I like the thought of broadband providers competing for my business...

Re:Competition?

[Trillan]

Shaw (cable) and Telus (DSL) both serve the Richmond area as well. I'm sure this is the only option available for WIRELESS broadband, though.

Re:Competition?

[Anonymous Coward]

The other options available in the area are DSL from Telus, and Cable from Shaw. Both offer decent service. Telus's service is not as fast as Shaw's, but their network usage policies are more lax (they allow the use of servers and such, while shaw frowns upon them)

Re:Competition?

[LostCluster]

They're really a specialised use entry more than anything else. Because this service has a 20 GB download and 5 GB upload cap before you start paying through the nose for bandwidth, both cable and DSL broadband seem like a better deal.

You'd have to be quite a road warrior to need your broadband access to follow you all over town. Wouldn't it be easier to just rely on wired access being where you need it, and then putting it up with WiFi?

Re:Competition?

[Curtman]

While not exactly the same thing, these guys have an RF system with a roof-top antenna that works pretty well. At least it does in Manitoba anyway. I used them when Shaw wasn't available.

Re:Competition?

[yellowcord]

All i can say is that 20/5 GB is pretty good compared to Telus DSL.

Re:Competition?

[devilspgd]

Actually Shaw is becoming more friendly to the use of servers. SOHO and up ($64.95/month) allow servers.

Re:Competition?

[future assassin]

Yah I noticed that a few months after I signed up for the SOHO package to run my shoutcast server. When I signed up there was a little blurb at the bottom of the SOHO package page that siad Web/FTP/MAIL/etc services were not allowed on this package. Now it doesnt say that. This package kills Telus offering as Im allowed 50 gig up/down. If I wanted Telus I'd have to pay $89 and onyly have about 14gigs? up/down traffic

Re:Competition?

[cptgrudge]

Wouldn't it be easier to just rely on wired access being where you need it, and then putting it up with WiFi?

No.

I need to post to slashdot from the bar while I drink. I won't accept anything less.

Re:Competition?

[devilspgd]

TELUS, however, does not monitor bandwidth at all at this time.

While that may change in the future, my servers are pushing about 110gig/month at this time, and Shaw makes no allowance for anyone who plans on going over the limits.

Re:Competition?

[Trillan]

But Telus' usenet server totally bites.

Mind you, fewer people every year seem to know what a usenet server is, so this isn't a big deal to most folks.

Re:Competition?

[drinkypoo]

No, it would be a lot harder. On the other hand, it might be dramatically cheaper...

Re:Competition?

[CKW]

No kidding.

All of this whining about "it's only 20/5" sounds just like the type of squealing that came out of people's mouths when the original iPod was released.

So a product doesn't suit "your personal immaculate demanding needs", big deal. That doesn't mean it won't meet the needs and price point of a bajillion other people in the market where it's being sold.

Note that what I'm denegrating is not their personal opinion that the service isn't something that they'd buy, but their inferrence that anyone who would buy the service would have to be an idiot and that they wouldn't be getting their money's worth.

Heh, now I sound like one of the people on Usenet flaming the people that flame other people for trying to sell something that isn't anything less than a "super duper ultimate steal of a deal".

Know what I mean?

Re:Competition?

[redphive]

There is competition in the market place for broadband access. This product from Fido is targetting the residential broadband market, so you have Cable and DSL on those fronts.

www.primesignal.com provides commercial broadband wireless access in the same area and, from our use of the product, find it to not only be reliable, but affordable as well.

Re:Competition?

[redphive]

www.primesignal.com offers commercial wireless broadband access in Richmond, South Vancouver, Tilburry area of Delta.

They provide symmetric 1, 2, and 3 Mbit/s access.

Ahh the pain of waiting

[Gareth Sargeant]

Why don't they just run their trials in big urban areas. No fair.

Re:Ahh the pain of waiting

[Anonymous Coward]

No fair my ass. If what you meant by your comment is that those living in areas with a higher population density greater deserve the opportunity to participate in the trials then recognize that the point of this pilot is do the opposite.

Case in point: Richmond is a sprawl of low-density housing comprised of [1-3] floor dwelling units and an almost perfectly flat topography. These qualities allow the first phase of the public trial to expose the benefits and shortcomings of the non-LOS system that iFido uses while not biting off a larger customer base than they can chew.

By doing the inverse (high population density, rolling topography) these companies would have a larger-than-they-can-handle trial customer base (given that anyone within the reach of the signal can sign up) and more urban jungle + rolling hills. That is not a recipe for getting the trial off the ground; indeed it is a recipe for a difficult trial that would most possibly end in failure. Further, if they allowed a limited number of participants, then that is plain bad customer relations for those who attempt to sign up but are rejected because the quota has already been met (customers are fickle creatures)...

Don't like it? Move! :)

Re:Ahh the pain of waiting

[ranolen]

Actually, Richmond is quite a big urban area!!!

be prepared for busy signals :)

[Anonymous Coward]

... be prepared for busy signals :) (if their cell phone service is any indication)

Re:be prepared for busy signals :)

[Trillan]

I've been with Fido in the Vancouver area for six months now, and I've never had a system busy signal. I have no idea what they're like elsewhere in Canada, but in the GVRD they're top notch -- way ahead of Rogers, and arguably slightly better (and way less scummy) than Telus.

Re:be prepared for busy signals :)

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been with them for a long time... maybe 6+ years, very soon after they started offering service. I can't recall the last time I had a connection dropped or a network busy message.

Re:be prepared for busy signals :)

[MindsEye]

I have been with Fido in Vancouver for about 4 years now, and the only times I have ever had problems getting through on the networks is when I was downtown during the Symphony of Fire, or Festival of Lights, or whatever they call it these days.

Other than on those 3 days per year, I have had no problems with a busy network or anything like that.

Re:be prepared for busy signals :)

[Trillan]

THAT WAS IT!

As I was posting that, I was trying to remember when I'd had the busy signal on my previous stay with Fido (ended because a AT&T Rogers salesbot fast talked me). It was on the way out of the final day of the Festival of Lights. I wanted to call my girlfriend (overseas) and tell her where I was, since it was my usual time to call her. I ended up just sending an SMS

Thanks... that's been bugging me...

Re:be prepared for busy signals :)

[jaraxle]

Been with Fido in Winnipeg for some time now, as has a friend of mine at work, and neither of us have any complaints with the service. Albeit, Winnipeg is a smaller metro area than the Vancouver or Toronto areas...

jaraxle

Cantenna?

[SuperBanana]

Of course, this is all torture for me since I live next-door in Vancouver, just out of reach of the network.

If you're desperate and the terrain will cooperate, perhaps build a cantenna(or buy one of those wire-dish highly directional antennas). You might have to open up the modem to get an external antenna installed...although the modem might be leased, making that a no-go option.

Re:Cantenna?

[t_kleinster]

No amount of external or directional anntenna will make it work outside of about 20 miles (~32km) from a base station. The propagation delay will be too large, the timing will be off.

Three reasons why this is a Bad IdeaTM

[Txiasaeia]

Three problems with this business model:

1) Extra peripheral. When I'm mobile, the last thing I want is to take along yet another notebook thingie. I've already got a wireless minicard; why should I take along a freaking *modem* too?

2. What possible use could anybody have for wireless net access 24x7 in a localised area? If you're at home, you generally have wired internet access (or, if you live in an apartment building, perhaps free wireless ;) If you're at work, you have wired access or access from a WAP. Starbucks and other coffee houses have WAPs. Where else would you need wireless? Which brings me to my last point...

3. The Greater Vancouver area, for one, is saturated with unprotected wifi; why would I ever need to *pay* for access? ;)

Re:Three reasons why this is a Bad IdeaTM

[OverlordQ]

2) Just like you said in #1, skip the WAP alltogether and get it direct.

Re:Three reasons why this is a Bad IdeaTM

[fsterman]

1) If this takes off there certainly will be a compatible minicard for your laptop too.
2) Cheaper than paying your DSL, Starbucks, etc. Commuting, in the park, etc.
3) While stealing is a nice thing some of us don't have that advantage. We might want 2.2 Mbps throughput at a decent price. Last time I checked it was $500 set up fee including a stationary antenna, and $100 for that kind of throughput to my house. This is also MUCH cheaper than my $60 Cable 1 Mbps connection.
This would make for a very nice home server.

Re:Three reasons why this is a Bad IdeaTM

[m00nun1t]

We have a new one for the list.

- I think there is a world market for mabye five computers. Thomas Watson
- Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1.5 tons. Popular Mechanics
- There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home. Ken Olson
- What possible use could anybody have for wireless net access 24x7 in a localised area? Txiasaeia

(Note: some people report that the Thomas Watson quote is an urban myth. And before someone replies with the Bill Gates 640K quote, that's DEFINITELY an urban myth).

Re:Three reasons why this is a Bad IdeaTM

[Medgur]

Has someone made a nice and convenient area map of the saturation you mentioned? I'd love to spend some time downtown with my laptop, but I don't have a clue where the hot spots are.

Re:Three reasons why this is a Bad IdeaTM

[fsterman]

It would make a nice server if I hadn't seen the bandwidth restrictions. If it is a *stable* 2.2 Mbps bandwidth and the restrictions become reasonable then it would be a decent server.

Re:Three reasons why this is a Bad IdeaTM

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you might have missed the point.

Just because it is wireless doesn't mean that you have to take it everywhere, and I don't think that's what they're selling.

To me it looks like they're going after the small business and residential users that xDSL and Cable modem services target. The pricing reflects this too.

The major advantage is that installation would be significantly easier. Unlike the Cable or xDSL the last mile is not a factor. All you have to do is unpack it from a box and plug in power and ethernet and voila!

This sounds like a winner. Big time. And if Fido marries this with their cellular network this could be the first volley in the 4G wireless networks. OFDM is currently being looked at as the foundation for the next, next generation cellular networks.

This is going to be great. It'll be nice to quit giving Bell and Rogers my money. They've already gotten enough.

Re:Three reasons why this is a Bad IdeaTM

[Txiasaeia]

You didn't specify exactly what problem you had with my statement. If you're at home, use wired (quicker and more reliable). If you're at work, use wired or work-sponsored WAP. If you're at a coffee shop, most of them now have WAPs. With current technology (notebooks instead of brain implants, for example), how would anybody expect to take full advantage of a wireless modem? Are you planning on driving around Richmond and surfing the Net at the same time?

I wasn't making a prediction about the future fifty years from now; I was simply stating that, with current technology and ISPs, a wireless modem is unwieldy and unpractical. This may change in five years, who knows?

Visionary Company

[IANAL(BIAILS)]

I'm more and more impressed with Fido as time goes on. For those of you who aren't on the West Coast of Canada, Fido's cell plan is something like $45 per month, unlimited local calls. I'm not sure what other cell plans are like in the US, but for Canada, Fido's the first to try anything like that... makes it easy to simply replace your landline with a cell for not much more $$.

Re:Visionary Company

[LostCluster]

In the USA, we have one oddball cell company called Cricket that offers unlimited local calls and a decent rate for long distance. The problem is that roaming isn't available from these guys at any price... stray outside of your home zone and the phone simply doesn't work. They only exist in spotty metro areas, nowhere close to coast-to-coast availabity.

Re:Visionary Company

[windside]

In my experience, Fido is quite similar. My girlfriend and I drove to Banff for a weekend away from Calgary (it's a one-hour drive for those of you not familiar with the locale) and her cell was totally useless. On the other hand, I've had no problems with my provider (Telus) and I've used it all over North America.

I do think this Internet thing sounds like a decent idea and (unlike most readers here) I don't think the bandwidth limit is a big deal. My only question is as follows: Didn't Telus buy Fido just a few years ago?

Re:Visionary Company

[nacturation]

And just so you know, $45 CDN is $34 US/month for unlimited cellular, and there's no contract to sign. All of Fido's plans are no contract. You can even (for free) transfer your home number to your cell phone. Long distance is reasonable too -- 10 cents/minute (about 7 cents US) in North America. The only drawback is roaming. You pay through the nose once you get into analog territory.

Re:Visionary Company

[cmallinson]

Didn't Telus buy Fido just a few years ago?

Telus bought Clearnet a few years ago. Fido ran into bankruptcy problems a while back and many expected them to be bought out, but they seem to be recovering.

Re:Visionary Company

[Feztaa]

Fido is pretty much exactly the same. They undercut every other cell provider for their per-minute rate, but their coverage is just absolutely terrible. I can use my fido phone anywhere in Edmonton, anywhere in Calgary (the two largest cities in this province), and anywhere on the highway in-between, but if I go anywhere else the phone becomes dead weight.

Re:Visionary Company

[scrye]

No, it isnt free. I did this, and they charge CAD 50$. not a big deal though

Re:Visionary Company

[unknown_host]

post humorously you mean..

Re:Visionary Company

[Nogami_Saeko]

That's because Fido is targetting their coverage exclusively at large cities that have the highest density of customers.

Making lots of cell sites in the middle of nowhere (ie: outside calgary / edmonton, and the corridor inbetween) does provide great cell service for Alberta's wildlife, but doesn't rake-in profits for the company.

Here's what I do:

I use my CityFido service in Vancouver and save bigtime. $40 (early subscriber price) for unlimited local calling each month is just heaven compared to Telus and Rogers ripoffs.

When I travel outside of the Fido-supported area (which basically covers 99% of my travels), I just pop in a Rogers/Cantel pay-as-you-go SIM card and use their more extensive (and expensive) rural service.

Win-win for me!

N.

Re:Visionary Company

[Feztaa]

You can switch SIM cards between providers on the same phone? Every time I talk about switching my fido SIM card into a roger's phone, they're always like "you can't do that" and whatnot.

That's what bugs me the most about cellphones, each provider has their own network, and each phone only works on one network. I wish cellphones were more like the internet; it doesn't matter who your ISP is, they all connect to the same internet.

Re:Visionary Company

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the way it works in the rest of the world, outside the USA. You get a phone, then you get a SIM card for a provider of your choice, or ten. Swap at will. The idea that the provider has something to do with your phone sounds crazy to me.

Re:Visionary Company

[Trillan]

They charge the $50 setup fee whether you get your number transferred or not.

Re:Visionary Company

[Ian_Bailey]

In my experience, Fido is quite similar.

No, CityFido is similar. Fido's other popular packages include their cheap pre-paid rates, and their Fido to Fido packages.

Fido is also the only Canadian carrier to offer the HipTop, which seems to be popular among the young crowd.

Re:Visionary Company

[theancient2]

Yep, they seem to focus on the larger cities. It makes sense -- the cities are a huge percentage of the population, so they can provide better rates by not wasting money building towers (at about $1 million each) to serve every small town.

Of course, the competition is quick to say they cover a greater land mass, but that doesn't matter to those of us who stick to cities (or *prefer* to be unreachable when vacationing away from civilization :) And, as I always say, my home phone line only had a coverage area of about the size of my living room. :)

On the other side of things, they have perhaps the best international roaming of any of the carriers, so if you ever travel to the U.S. or Europe (and you have an international phone), you're covered, and won't pay too much for it.

More on topic -- this wireless internet trial is going on in two cities -- Richmond (a larger area, from my understanding), and the suburbs of Ottawa. Note that the latter is an area that's had a hard time getting DSL service from the usual suspects, despite an abundance of people who are willing to pay for it. That may be an interesting target marker.

Re:Visionary Company

[Tsian]

Every time I talk about switching my fido SIM card into a roger's phone, they're always like "you can't do that" and whatnot

Actually, all the newer Rogers phones are compatible with the Fido network -- They both use the same GSM standard.

That said, as a rule, you can't simply place a Fido SIM chip in a Rogers phone (or vice versa) as the phones are "Subsidy Locked". Place a non authorised sim in and it will ask you for an unlock code. This is done as the phone companies usually give phones out at substantial discounts and, so, want you to use their service. However, it is possible to unlock Rogers/Fido phones and, if this is done, Fido sims will work in Rogers phonse and vice versa.

Re:Visionary Company

[Feztaa]

The idea that the provider has something to do with your phone sounds crazy to me.

Oh yeah, it's terrible. Not only can you not switch phones between providers, you can't even switch phones between plans on the same provider! For example, if you want to go on a 3-year contract, then they offer you a handful of phones that you're allowed to have, but if you go with prepaid, it's a different set of phones. I've even asked them, "Can I use this phone on this other plan?" and they say "no".

Not all the cell providers are that bad, but that's generally the way it seems to be working when I go in the store.

Re:Visionary Company

[Anonymous Coward]

Digital raoming is cheap, though. While in California a few weeks ago, I was paying 20 cents a minute for roaming (10 for roaming, 10 for long distance) with my Fido phone, while a friend with a Telus phone was paying $1.45 a minute for the same thing (95 cents for roaming, 50 for long distance.)

Recently, my Sony/Erricsson phone went tits-up, and it was 3 months out of warranty. I took it into a Fido store, and they replaced it for free, no questions asked. And I don't even have a contract with them, just monthly payments which I can cancel at any time. Very nice.

I like Fido. I was a Clearnet customer until Telus bought them out and started screwing me over.

Re:Visionary Company

[nacturation]

post humorously you mean..

not quite

Re:Visionary Company

[LLWhipist]

nice too that they are the only local cel provider that bills per second, not per minute. that's the number one reason I'm still with them.

Re:Visionary Company

[topsoil]

You can do that.. depending on the phone...

Most providers lock their phone, and as a result, you are stuck using that phone with that provider. A couple years ago, when I got my first GSM phone, I purchased it through a buddy of mine who worked for the cellular provider, and since the phone wasn't out on the market yet, the provider hadn't locked the phone I got. We were able to use both Rogers and Fido SIM cards on my phone with no problems.. that is until I sent the phone back for a software upgrade, and got the phone returned with the provider lock enabled.. however the battery life was twice the length which was nice.

Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[LostCluster]

This won't satisfy most /. readers. The CAN$40 a monthly fee only covers 20 GB down and 5 GB up. Extra GBs cost CAN$10 each.

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[Soko]

Extra GBs cost CAN$10 each

...which in $US is more or less free. :P

I'm willing to pay for good services that I can actually use, BTW.

Soko

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[Moocowsia]

Its not too big of an issue. Most ISPs are only marginally cheaper than that for a land line and they get mad at you if you download or upload too much.

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[highwindarea]

I'm in Australia, most Australian geeks don't even dream about download more the 3-4 gigs a month.

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[antic]

Christ, on some 56k dial-up plans Australians are charged AUD$140 (USD$100+) per GB. $10 would be fantastic!

And that's a 20GB allowance. Dial-up plans here these days have 200MB/month (!), and ADSL plans are often the same for the cheaper (AUD$30) plans.

If you were giving away 20GB for $30-40/month here, you'd have everyone buying into it.

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[Teddy Beartuzzi]

This won't satisfy most /. readers. The CAN$40 a monthly fee only covers 20 GB down and 5 GB up. Extra GBs cost CAN$10 each.

I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but those are basically in the same ballpark as Telus and Shaw, their two competitors.

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[www.fuckingdie.com]

Welcome to the real world. Bandwidth limitations are controlled (or are supposed to be) by the CRTC in the way of Tarrifs they impose on carriers. This prevents big guys (like telus in BC) who own, in alot of cases, the only network in town from charging a wholesale rate of say $100.00 per gig to small ISPs while on the other hand charging absolutely nothing to their own customers.

This is an issue that is gaining more steam and attention from the media, so get used to the idea of bandwidth limitations and paying for over usage. It is illegal for your carrier not to charge you for it, especially in monopoly situations.

PS I realize this is an issue that is not so prevalent in large centers where there are many carriers who all own their own networks, but in small towns there are a great many ISPs going under because of the anti-competative practices of incumbent (read monopolistic) carriers.

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[jonbrewer]

Warning: Bandwidth limited... This won't satisfy most /. readers. The CAN$40 a monthly fee only covers 20 GB down and 5 GB up. Extra GBs cost CAN$10 each.


Idiot. Alarmist too. It's a traffic limit, not a bandwidth limit. And besides, 20GB is well beyond what 90% of users (of broadband connections) use.

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[jigyasubalak]

But this should satisfy many Kazaa users, very nicely.

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[screwballicus]

However, increasingly, the absence of a bandwidth limit is becoming an important marketing tool on the competitive Canadian DSL market (even though Bell runs everything from behind the scenes).

In Toronto

Sympatico

Golden

and

Echo Online

all currently advertise no bandwidth limits on residential DSL.

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[Anonymous Coward]

...it's a lot better than the 500 megabyte (up/dn)/wk cap my university enforces on me.

*weeps*

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but Telus at least doesn't actually monitor or bill for extra usage. The only reason I continue to give them money for ADSL. Oh, wait, I don't do that either, they stopped billing me when I swapped the service to another phone line. Never mind.

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[CKW]

But they used to have limits, Sympatico's limit used to be 10 GB (5 up and 5 down), a lot of other DSL providers followed suit, while many tried to compete by providing "unlimited". Sympatico (which is a subsidiary of a company that owns the biggest backbones in the country) eventually decided to drop down to "unlimited".

But that's DSL. I'm guessing that this wireless thing is like cable - whatever you do affects other people on your shared bandwidth - I can't imagine you getting your own frequency allocation.

Considering those two things, I consider 20/5 a very reasonable limit. I only have one friend in 30 that uses more than that, and he's got an 8x80 600 GB raid-5 array (two PCI controllers each with 4 drives). I've got almost as much in a JABOD and I on average could easily live within 20/5 (occasionaly I hit 45 total, but there are other months where I barely make 10).

Re:Warning: Bandwidth limited...

[lhpineapple]

You underestimate the amount of porn the average user downloads.

I was just thinking the other day

[teamhasnoi]

how cool it would be if everyone had a Wireless Access Point on their rooftop, and formed a p2p wireless mini-internet with no bandwidth restrictions and free for all (minus the cost of the hardware).

No restrictions in dense areas such as urban centers, since you could always route around a full AP, and free as in not having to pay some ISP by becoming you're very own.

I currently have the only AP for at least 4-5 blocks, it would be great if I had geeky neighbors who'd like to give it a try. I'm sure this idea is as old as dirt by now, but it was the first thing I thought of when I read this.

Re:I was just thinking the other day

[Anonymous Coward]

They're called mesh networks. The real problem, I think, is routing stuff over bigger areas. The lag could get horendous.

Re:I was just thinking the other day

[LostCluster]

You'd have the most insecure network ever. The posiblity for man-in-the-middle attacks would be endless...

Re:I was just thinking the other day

[devilspgd]

Not with effective encryption. If the data is properly encrypted and signed, with a central ISP handling the decryption before releasing the packets out to the internet in general, it could probably be accomplished reasonably securely.

Re:I was just thinking the other day

[Garak]

So what if the network is insecure? So is the internet...

Who cares if your neighboors can tell your reading slashdot or searching on google. They can look in the window to find that stuff out.

Private emails should be encrypted anyway, same goes for online banking and stuff...

"man-in-the-middle attacks" What would they be attacking?

"Up to" - uh oh

[Animats]

"Up to" probably means "when nobody else is using the network". How many people share spectrum with this thing? This is, really, a desktop 3G cellular modem.

Also note that data transfer costs $10/gigabyte after the first 20GB (down) or 5GB (up) in a month.

Personally, I think it should be considered false advertising to advertise "up to" anything. Vendors should have to provide a guaranteed minimum.

Re:"Up to" - uh oh

[LostCluster]

Comcast hasn't been that bad with their latest network upgrades. They say "Up to 3 MB/s down" but I've actually clocked some downloads from a server I control at 3.75 MB/s. 25% overdelivery, not bad.

Re:"Up to" - uh oh

[Anonymous Coward]

>Personally, I think it should be considered false advertising to advertise "up to" anything. Vendors should have to provide a guaranteed minimum.

Personally, I think it's up to the consumers to decide which non-essential service is right to them based on accurate information provided. Fido isn't lying to you, this is the maximum possible speed. If it isn't enough information, and you can't manage to get more info from Fido, it's absolutely Caveat Emptor.

Re:"Up to" - uh oh

[drinkypoo]

In my area comcast says you will get 3Mbps, up to 4Mbps. However you're still only allowed 90GB/mo.

Re:"Up to" - uh oh

[CustomDesigned]

Also note that data transfer costs $10/gigabyte after the first 20GB (down) or 5GB (up) in a month.

That's a whole lot better than kicking you off the service when you exceed some limit (as covered in previous slashdot stories). Better still if they give you a way to track your usage so far in a month (via an "odometer" on the modem or an ISP webpage).

I still haven't gotten around to rigging up an iptables based meter for my Cox cable service (which has stated limits, but no way to monitor).

Wow...

[Zakabog]

I saw this -

$20 per month for the first 6 months (regular price: $40 per month)

and thought, damn that's really good for 2.2mbps down wireless internet, then I saw

Monthly transfer: up to 20 GB (download) and 5 GB (upload)

I wouldn't want any kind of internet that gives you limits. I don't know how often I'd use 20GB a month but I'm sure it's very often (lots of bittorent downloading, websites full of flash animations and streaming video, and even games.) If you play UT 2K3 for just 4 hours a day, 25 days a month (that's like coming home from school or work, and playing a few hours) that's around 2 gigs or 1/10th your total bandwidth, for something that uses hardly any bandwidth (around 5-6K/sec and remember there's also hundreds of mutators on like every server and then 10 meg maps.) And how's the upload speed? Latency? I dunno I like the idea of having a wireless ISP and it'd be really cool for a laptop, I don't think this should be uses as your main ISP alone.

Re:Wow...

[shepd]

This is standard for most ISPs. At least, unlike certain others, they are being upfront about the limits. No ISP can afford a 24x7 leech @ $40 monthly.

Other ISPs, who either don't want to kick users, or weren't upfront about their limits will find other methods to "fix" the problem users.

Re:Wow...

[servognome]

If you play UT 2K3 for just 4 hours a day, 25 days a month (that's like coming home from school or work, and playing a few hours) that's around 2 gigs or 1/10th your total bandwidth
JUST 4 hours a day 25 days a month? Just admit, you have an addiction. :)

Re:Wow...

[gl4ss]

..huh? take a look around will you?

around here isp's can't really advert it being unlimited if it is limited(scamming isn't good for citizens so it should be illegagl, and is). IT IS NOT STANDARD for most isp's(I know dozens of guys around here, Finland, that do 24/7 leeching on their dsl's or cable modems - with no problems at all since that's how the service was sold to them).

the reason why they need such drastic limits on this wireless connection is probably that if they didn't the freqs they got for it would fill up pretty quickly(they would need smaller cells, less profit).

I got a transfer limit myself, 2gb down/1gb up(per day), but that is purely coming from the fact that I pay 12 euros for 100mbit connection on student housing network(and the limits are only for transfers that are to/from outside of the citywide student housing foundation network - and yes occasionally it is possible to download things from the outside at speeds over 5-6m_byte_/s which is where my nat box chokes anyways).

Re:Wow...

[Billnvd65]

"If you play UT 2K3 for just 4 hours a day, 25 days a month"

For JUST 4 hours a day? You say that like 4 hours a day is cutting back and putting a crimp in your gaming experience.

Have you tried things like reading or having a conversation, maybe spending time with your spouse/significant other/children/family/friends?

Hell, I wish I had 4 hours a day to piss away playing a game. I have to "waste" most of my free time on mundane shit like helping my aging parents, fixing my sisters car, maintaining my marriage, etc . . .

Put down the mouse, back slowly away from the monitor and welcome to real life. Yes, human interaction is scary at first, but I am sure with enough exposure, you too can adjust.

Re:Wow...

[drinkypoo]

The only people with no limits are dialup and cellular internet providers. For example T-Mobile will sell me unlimited internet for $19.95/mo and supposedly one gets about 40kbps with decent signal. I have a motorola phone with a USB cable (actually it's my girlfriend's, mine is a crappy siemens phone that I hate hate hate) and I could use that service, but until I get the computer installed into my dash (it's not legal to have them sitting on the seat but it is legal to have them installed in the dash here in CA, how retarded) there's really no point.

Re:Wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

It depends on the ISP, and the pipe used. For DSL, my ISP doesn't care if it's sucking BW 24x7. On the other hand, they do charge for BW if your server is colocated and attached to their networks (or if you use their hosting services, etc.).

For that matter, my ISP gives out static IP addresses for DSL, gives you a shell account, and doesn't care if you run servers over DSL. Although they're a modest, regional ISP, they're also profitable. Their service is also incredible: one guy recently complained in an internal forum about sudden high ping times for games, and a support guy responded that it was related to some traffic shaping work, and that it should be fixed. Now, the support guy wasn't obligated to say anything at all, but on how many ISPs have you even seen anything like this happen??? This was last week, BTW, and not in the internet madness heyday of years back.)

(Hmm. The "no BW limits" were with the 1.5 MBps DSL offering. They now offer 3.0MBps and 6.0MBps DSL; I need to check with them about any new limits.)

(Sorry, posted anonymously because I like my profitable ISP, and I don't want them slashdotted seventeen ways from Sunday.)

Re:Wow...

[shepd]

>take a look around will you?

I do try, but I can't read Finnish! :-)

>I know dozens of guys around here, Finland, that do 24/7 leeching on their dsl's or cable modems - with no problems at all since that's how the service was sold to them.

That's excellent. That being said, it's extremely difficult to get a reasonably priced internet connection in North America that isn't in some form limited (either rate limited or bandwidth limited). I myself pay $170 CDN monthly for unlimited bandwidth the same speed as this service, and when I ask other ISPs about it, they unanimously explain at that price it's actually below cost.

Perhaps it's time for me to re-evaluate european internet access. In North America we've heard so many horror stories about European telecom companies ripping customers off that, well, we just *assume* internet access there should be much more expensive than it is here. It seems I'm incorrect on that, and for that I'm sorry.

Sounds good to me.

[Dekar]

"To enjoy iFido wireless high-speed Internet, all you need is a standard Ethernet card and Windows 95/98/Me/NT/2000/XP or Mac/OS/Linux/UNIX."

The above sounds good, but I'm more worried about the small prints:

"The monthly price is for data transfer of up to 20 GB (download) and 5 GB (upload). A charge of $10 applies per additional GB per month. If you didn't opt for a 24-month Fido Agreement, you're eligible for a smaller discount and your service must remain activated for 90 consecutive days."

20GB/5GB should be enough for anyone really using it as a 2nd connection, but considering the price (40$/month after the 6th month), most people will want to use this as their primary connection and better watch out for extra charges (although people using cable might already be used to those transfer limits).

The whole package seems like a nice deal anyway, but I'm kind of worried about the saturation of frequencies these days...

It will never happen

[Mitchua]

There's no way they could provide coverage like this in an area with a lot of high-rises. The people on the far side of the building would have horrible reception. Imagine trying to cover an area like downtown Vancouver or Toronto?

Re:It will never happen

[rv8]

There's no way they could provide coverage like this in an area with a lot of high-rises. The people on the far side of the building would have horrible reception.

Do you lose cell phone coverage when you walk around the other side of a high-rise? I sure don't. They've learned how many antennae they need to install to provide seamless coverage. Why do you think they haven't done the same thing with this wireless broadband?

Re:It will never happen

[Mitchua]

I agree that the cell companies provide pretty good coverage in downtowns but anyone whose tried to use a cell inside an apartment knows what I'm talking about. The buildings cause interference and the higher you go the worst it gets. In fact, no company will even guarantee reception inside any building. As for this service from Fido, they claim it uses a "Multipoint Communications Systems", not the cell network. I doubt they have a wifi access point everywhere they have a cell tower. I would wait until this Fall when Telus, Bell or Rogers are expected to announce 1Mbit access using the cell networks themselves.

Re:It will never happen

[loose electron]

The 802.16A (WiMax) is going to do exactly this type of stuff.

Any relation to Fidonet ?

[drgonzo59]

Just wondering..

Re:Any relation to Fidonet ?

[Anonymous Coward]

No

richmond?

[Coneasfast]

why richmond i wonder? the area is built-up with an airport and many commercial buildings...but wouldn't the prime area be in vancouver or burnaby where the residential population density is higher?

Re:richmond?

[Anonymous Coward]

Richmond is relatively flat, so connection is much less of an issue. When you have to start putting points on every hill and valley, it gets very cost prohibitive. Likely Richmond is just a cheap rollout so they can test how well the service does. Also, with the population of Richmond being majority Asian they might spring more for something like this. Who knows?

Re:richmond?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the east side of Richmond there are an awful lot of wireless telecomm companies. One could assume that they may be ensuring that their developers/test sites are covered int heir initial roll-out.

Re:richmond?

[javajawa]

Perhaps they don't want to saturate their network with too many users during their trial runs.

Re:richmond?

[AnimeFreak]

"Relatively?" More like it is entirely flat. The only hills you'll find are when you're hitting the tunnel, an overpass on the 99 or 91, or the five bridges that go into the city.

The reason why Microcell is introducing the service into the area is partly due to the fact that the majority of Richmond's population is west of Highway 99, which means the population is relatively dense. In fact, the majority of the population sits around Richmond Centre, which isn't really all that large of an area when you look at it.

Re:richmond?

[CMoZ]

One of the reasons I think they chose richmond is due to the airport and the large density of commercial buildings. As it is there is a VERY high density of commercial radio traffic hovering over Richmond and if they can make it work well in Richmond presumably it will work as well if not better in areas with less saturated airwaves

Re:richmond?

[thepoch]

Maybe because it's a little island that they can easily contain the signal in as a trial run. Vancouver is too big. Imagine many people complaining about poor service because of erratic wireless signals.

Anyway, I'm just proud that Richmond has been mentioned. It's the first time I've seen my old city mentioned on the Internet, ever!

Re:richmond?

[mmontano]

Oddly: The Airport is not part of the test-area; at least not the terminal area proper.

Richmond is 170,000 souls, relatively weathly, geek and gadget oriented and probably the highest cell-phone penetration of any city in North America.

It's also flat as a pancake. Maybe if you wanted to test the service over a large population, but only wanted to put up about one or two towers, it'd make sense.

Matthew

Re:richmond?

[Stephen Samuel]

why richmond i wonder?

lemme see: Flat like a pancake, (also refers to your house after the first earthquake).
Good demographics (lots of affluent chinese business imigrants)
reasonably contained
mostly residential, (some industrial) -> fewer businesses freaking out if/when their connection drops

I think it's mostly being FLAT. This is a test market, so they don't want people complaining about dead spots a lot. If you get into the hilly areas of Vancouver (or, even worse, North Vancouver) you can almost guarantee dead spots with the resultant complaints.

Re:richmond?

[legojenn]

It could be worse. It could have been Richmond, Ontario and Cumberland BC (if there is one).

Re:richmond?

[rjelks]

Sorry for the offtopic, but is this Matt from the Denver area?

-

The up/down cap

[yellowcord]

Lots of people are mentioning the 20/5 GB cap for this service and I was wondering if anybody has Telus DSL with their (insanely low, in my oppinion) cap of 5/1 GB cap. Do they ever come after you after that? I avoided them like the plague when I came to Alberta.

Re:The up/down cap

[Anonymous Coward]

Telus (at least in BC) doesn't seem to mind if you go over the cap. I know several people who have switched from Shaw to Telus for this reason.

Re:The up/down cap

[devnullify]

I use an independent DSL provider [Uniserve, if anyone is wondering], but I have experience with the two big guys around here as well.

On Shaw, I was hounded for weeks by their 'abuse' team, and eventually dropped their service because of it. Even after I cut back on the bandwidth usage, they were bitching about me running a DNS server (WTF?!?). Their policy is 'cut the user offline on a friday night at 5pm so they can't get ahold of us until Monday, and ask questions later'.

Telus I've never really had a problem with, other than their reluctance to sell static addresses, and their shitty customer support. I've exceeded their caps in both directions, run servers on their service...never once got a call from them.

DSL is definitely slower than cable around here though. Shaw connections are rocket fast for downloads, but latency is a bit unstable. DSL is far better for gaming, especially an indy provider...my remote gateway pings about 11-15ms, I've found CS servers where I get consistent 20ms latency). Telus is usually around 25-30ms to the gateway.

I've found both Shaw and Telus to be rather unstable, especially Telus in the past year or two (since they started running a transparent proxy for HTTP requests). It seems the proxy server just dies once in a while for up to an hour, then comes back (everything works, except for www). Annoying.

Their ATM network is rock solid though, so if you can find a non-Telus provider that leases ATM channels, you'll probably get better reliability and more flexibility from your ISP. The only downtime I've had in the past 8 months or so is from power outages, and I get a static IP :D

Re:The up/down cap

[Xoid629]

From everything I've heard Telus in BC doesn't care how much bandwidth you use. I'm fairly sure I go over 5 GB down sometimes, and I use less than many people.

Re:The up/down cap

[Nogami_Saeko]

A bit offtopic, but...

How do you find Uniserve? I'm going to need to switch DSL providers in the next few weeks, but need something that will provide a static IP, and aren't hyper-anal (read: Shaw) about running servers and bandwidth caps.

N.

Re:The up/down cap

[Anonymous Coward]

i downloaded 55 gb last month and upload about the same. im on telus dsl in bc. the guy told me the caps are never enforced and i have been doing this for months.

Re:The up/down cap

[devnullify]

www.uniserve.com Last I checked, the service is only availiable in Vancouver and surrounding areas, though that might have changed.

I'm an ex-employee, and I can warn you that nearly everyone in the Aldergrove office has been laid off in the past 18 months or so, and everything but administration has been moved to an ISP they merged with in Victoria. Stinks of upcoming chapter 11, but so far there is no competition that I've found. I'm a bit hesitant to recommend them though, I kinda got shafted by them ;)

Be sure that you insist on a bridged connection, the sales person probably will have no idea what you're talking about, but insist. AFAIK they still offer new accounts on it, but it's never been advertised clearly. I think they're still putting people on PPPoE unless they specifically request otherwise. The bridged network has lower contention, is much simpler (they just give you network parameters to input, not even any DHCP). Besides, PPPoE just sucks.

One more warning: I only get about 1.2mbit throughput. No idea why, I know the network is fast, and my sync is good, I'm happy enough with 150K/s. Upstream also nearly reaches the 512kbit.

Too lazy to dig out my bill, but I believe the base rate is the same, plus $5 for the static IP (they force this on you if you're on the bridged network, there are no dynamics).

Re:The up/down cap

[epiphanius]

Be absolutely certain that resellers will be charged by Telus the second the reseller's customers exceed this limit, a cost the ISP must pass on ...

Re:The up/down cap

[Tripster]

Telus I've never really had a problem with, other than their reluctance to sell static addresses

Telus does have business accounts, start at the $89.95/month account level and you get 2 static IPs, advertised on telus.com so they don't seem too reluctant to offer static IPs.

They don't offer statics for residential account levels, but then again, how many residential accounts have such a need?

You're not thinking in the right frame of mind...

[barc0001]

This is intended as a *REPLACEMENT* for your home broadband, not as a portable solution. The "portable" modem is about as big as your cable modem is. The pricing is about the same as Shaw or Telus. The portability of it is just an afterthought, and a nice touch if you want to move your computer around from one room to the next.
As for why you would want this, there are still lots of places in the GVRD where you can only get Telus OR Shaw or possibly neither, and if it turns out your Telus connection drops out several times a day (like ours at the office does), this is a viable alternative without Shaw telling you there's no cable to your building, but for $1000 they'd be happy to pull it there for you. Not like that's ever happened with me or anything...

Verizon

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

On a side note, Verizon Wireless is rolling out CDMA2000 1X-EVDO throughout the US. Currently, Washington DC and San Diego are online. Service is $80 a month for unlimited. It runs 1-2mbps. Where there is no 1X-EVDO service, it drops back to 1X-RTT (~60kbps).

Fido...

[Nexzus]

Also has a GPRS network for use with a Novatel Wireless Merlin card. Not quite sure of the speed, but I'd imagine being able to access the net from anywhere would come in handy. Price for the card, and monthly package, is a little steep, though. Plus, like other posters have mentioned wifi access is pretty ubiquitous.

OT:

Anyone else notice the ads for the "ROKU network music player" Quite a nifty looking device, and if I were looking for a network music player, I'd look into it. But you'd have to pry my audiotron from my cold dead hands.

Re:Fido...

[Random Frequency]

GPRS has a latency that's just high enough to prevent voice over IP. FIdo is no exception. This appears to be some sort of 802.11 concoction that operates on a higher frequency range much like fatport or the other wireless providers out there.

Re:Fido...

[Anonymous Coward]

isn't the Fido GPRS card discontinued??

I asked about one of these about a month or so ago at a Fido kiosk and was told the cards are no longer available or supported??? ...a buddy of mine still has one he uses through his company's account - neat to see him using the wireless Internet from a notebook or PDA in the coffee shop or in the Future Shop to look up specs on stuff for sale there. I suppose he'll end up with a nice spare pc card with no service soon though...

Out of RANGE?!

[Anonymous Coward]

>> Of course, this is all torture for me since I live next-door in Vancouver, just out of reach of the network."

Two Words...

Names, actually...

Yagi - Uda

Many years ago, these two Nipponese rf engineers designed a nifty, easy to build yourself, high gain antenna, that at the frequencies you need, is quite a small package.

You see them all over, they look like sideways, one dimensional xmas trees. They are made in many sizes, for different frequencies.

They are however, mostly line of sight, with increasing signal attenuation (crappier signal) if the path is blocked by anything, like mountians, buildings, big trees, etc..

Don't give up hope. Experiment a little, and see if you can't connect to their network.

You may even be able to find a techy inside the company, who is willing to go above and beyond the call of duty, and help you out, over time, to see if you can make the connection.

Don't give up, go for it!

Re:Out of RANGE?!

[Garak]

Yagi's are not that effictive at that frequency. Dish's offer anywhere from 18-30dBi and beyond, just build it bigger...

The problem I can see is that I bet their hardware dosn't have an antenna connector, and the antenna is built on. Then you could just put the entire unit at the focal point of the dish.

Another problem people are going to have with this service is that its pretty much strickly line of site, so your going to have to be facing/able to see the tower to get on, even in the 2.5km radius.

Re:Out of RANGE?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the service is very much completely NOT "strickly line of site"[sic].

Unfortunately, the service will not work beyond the stated distances from the base-station (this is configurable at the head-end only). This is primarily due to timing issues (darn that pesky speed of light thing *G*)

This is a bit bothersome...

[AnimeFreak]

I am on Fido in Greater Vancouver -- Richmond is a part of the area, and Fido's reception is varying. I go to Richmond on a bi-weekly basis, and it gets a bit irritating that sometimes when I enter certain buildings, my reception drops considerably, sometimes to the point where it is unusable.

Fido (Microcell) uses GSM, which most likely means that this service is GPRS-based, which works on the same waveband if I remember right. They're notorious for offering awesome packages, but pitiful reception in certain areas.

I hope that if they're going to introduce this service that they actually improve the signal quality, because it isn't GSM that is the problem -- Rogers AT&T Wireless uses the same system, but it is the fact that there isn't enough nodes for me to connect to.

I am a very happy Fido customer regardless, but there are times where the reception blackouts do piss me off.

Re:This is a bit bothersome...

[kisielk]

I don't think this problem is just limited to Fido. I am on Telus, and I have the same problems in some buildings, which I think is just a function of their construction. By far the worst is my school, SFU, which is all concrete with lots of mesh metal girders (if you know it, take a look at the convo mall roof some time) that totally kill my cell reception. I'd say 99% of the time I have absolutely no cell reception. Pretty much I just have to rely on voice mail at school, and then check it out doors, then use a local phone to make a call so that my connection doesn't drop right in the middle of talking.

Strangely, Fido seems to have nearly perfect reception up there, and I would switch were it not for being locked in to a contract with Telus :(

Re:This is a bit bothersome...

[AnimeFreak]

We ran a convention up at Simon Fraser University last summer (which will be again this summer), and I have to agree, the concrete just murders cell phone reception, let alone our FRS radio signals. However, it is strange that at of all places, Fido doesn't suck at SFU.

Downtown Vancouver gets a bit dicey with my phone, which is weird, because it is concrete, glass, and metal mostly.

Re:This is a bit bothersome...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not usign the GSM network, sometimes you people can be so ignorant..read, acknowledge, then discuss.

Re:This is a bit bothersome...

[kisielk]

Judging by your name, I would assume this was the anime convention put on last summer? I wanted to attend, but I didn't find out about it till it was almost over. Hopefully I'll be there this year :D

Re:This is a bit bothersome...

[redphive]

This isn't a GPRS service. This is a separate product that is being marketed by Fido. The technology they are using is Multipoint Communications System (MCS).
you can read more here: http://www.cwta.ca/media/press/aug21_03.php3 and http://www.inukshuk.ca/anglais/20031119press.html regarding the business partnerships.

Re:This is a bit bothersome...

[AnimeFreak]

Yeah. August 20th to 22nd at the same place. :)

www.animeevolution.com

Oh great, 802.11g will get hammered - 2.5 ghz ??

[gwait]

Aren't fido going to flood the airwaves?
Fido droppings everywhere!!
Arggg..

I'm a Fido...

[Tokerat]

...call me, eh?

Most Canadian-stereotype-admitting-commercials award, 2001. Can anyone from up north shut me down on that one?

The number one reason this isn't likely to work...

[rmarll]

Hi, I'm the internet's Jay Stile.

I'd like to setup my media server on your network.

Re:You're not thinking in the right frame of mind.

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. The local PUD around here is doing basicly the same thing on a smaller scale. They put up some 802.11 access points with what appear to be dang nice atennas (or else a higher than normal signal strength, not sure), and then anyone in the coverage area can then contract with an ISP to get internet service. They started out putting it in downtown and some higher density buisness areas as a replacement for DSL/Cable, but it might eventually expand to more residential areas (at least, I can hope...). People have been talking about "fiber to streetlights, wireless to houses" internet access, although its not likely to become a reality for a majority of the population anytime soon.

should be easily fixed

[rkoot]

if you have a friend who is lives on the border of the richmond network area, couldn't you get him to point a wireless antenna (I believe there 15 miles and more success stories, search slashdot) to you, so you could use your friends box as a router to the richmond Fido network?
just the thought..

r.

Re:should be easily fixed

[www.fuckingdie.com]

82 Kilometers at 11mbits using 802.11b radios. (read 2.2 mbits as this is about the maximum that you realistically see with 802.11b).

Done using some amplifiers, decent antennas (barbecue grill style beasts) and orinoco OR-1000 wireless bridges.

Beat that.

I laugh when I hear about people who think that a 20 kilometer shot is a record....

candian or U.S. Kilobits?

[Anonymous Coward]

Download at speeds of up to 2.2 Mbps

isn't that around US56K? >:)

i live in Richmond

[AmVidia HQ]

wow, my home town got ./'ed =b

This is cool news. I switched to Roger AT&T on my cell and i kinda regret it, with the Fido $40 / month unlimited cell plan.

And although the promised wireless internet speed seems to be somewhat less than my current cable broadband, the portability would make many drool. If you can carry the modem around easily with your laptop that is. That is its selling point (the price isn't cheap)

FTP server running on Telus...well over 5 GB/month

[Hamster Lover]

I routinely download Ghost images from a dedicated computer at home to wherever I am and I regularly exceed 5 GB/month.

I am not sure if the bandwidth limits are specific to the pricing package, but I am on the 2.5 Mb/s plan. I have yet to receive any sort of bill or indication of said limits.

Perhaps it is similar to Shaw -- they only go after those who are burden to the network. Shaw has bandwidth limits as well in their terms of service, but from what I remember they were never exactly spelled out.

Reminds me of the well known Vancouver joke....

[Hamster Lover]

What river separates China from India?

The Fraser.

Richmond/Delta, get it? Yeah, it's not the best joke and anyone from Vancouver has probably heard it a thousand times...

Whooooosh...there's the sound of evaporating karma.

Re:Reminds me of the well known Vancouver joke....

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha. Vancovuer humour on Slashdot. I love it. :)

Re:Oh great, 802.11g will get hammered - 2.5 ghz ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Without having looked at any of the technology behind this, I would assume that regulations would keep it out of ISM frequencies. One would hope they would keep Fido's dropping in his own yard.
Also about power levels, what I am wondering is where exactly you place this modem? If it is right on your desk and not an outdoor, line-of-sight installation, how exactly are they getting 2.2Mbps through walls, outdoor obstacles, and across a couple kilometers of free space at safe power levels?

Re:FTP server running on Telus...well over 5 GB/mo

[Anonymous Coward]

EXACTLY the same situation here. Same package, no hassles, and run FTP, bittorrent my ass off, host web services, play online games, and stream my mp3s no one has said boo. :)

Been there... done that!

[Anonymous Coward]

For all of you out there that are feeling depressed because you are just out of range of this new service, forget about it.

Look Communications is a wireless tv and internet company (well at least they try) in the Toronto and Montreal areas that are currently using this technology to provide their services and it dam near put em out of business.

From past experience, you are not missing anything. The service is based on line of sight so if there is so much as a tree between your antenna and the CN Tower... sorry, no dice.

llid j-

Re:Been there... done that!

[Anonymous Coward]

RTFA, or even RTFSummary! This technology is radio-based and doesn't need line-of-sight. It's not even close to what you describe.

You're an idiot and the moderator who marked your comment as informative is a complete moron!

Directional?

[dj245]

These kinds of service are not even close to being new. There is a service here locally that has wireless internet, and they have been operating for the past three years. Why is slashdot covering a press release from an ISP web page anyway? Mod me down, troll, but its been my experience that these pages/ads are 90% hype , 5% marketing, and 5% service agreement. The only thing somewhat interesting about this is that this is non-directional, and the local service in my town just rolled out non-directional modems only six months ago. On second though, not very interesting at all. Move along, nothing to see here.

In belgium

[Karem Lore]

With Tiscali, we got 3Mbit for 36 a month. Tell you I think US and especially UK are being ripped off for broadband...Shame I am leaving.

Re:In belgium

[Bushcat]

70MB vdsl off a 1GB fiber feed to the building for $35/month 8-)

Re:In belgium

[Karem Lore]

Show off

Re:You're not thinking in the right frame of mind.

[Curtman]

Not like that's ever happened with me or anything

Or me.. I even offered to hop up on the ladder with my spool of coax and leave it to the shaw guy to connect it for $100. They didn't go for that either. :(

Expand Coverage

[TheScorpion420]

I really wish that instead of focusing funds on new technologies for broadband the teleco companies and whatnot would focus some cash on expanding their existing coverage. I live in the styx more or less about 30 miles from the nearest "metro" location (if you consider Des Moines "metro") and I can't get anything but 56k and normally not even 50k, but hey I could get satellite (Right . . .) not worth the cash really at 60$ a month for no more than a 64k ISDN connection with more or less bursts to 512k. Personally I would think it would be in their best interests to be able to say they have a better coverage zone than woo hoo we have 2.2 MBs wireless. Well I'm done bitching anyone else. . .

Re:Expand Coverage

[Anonymous Coward]

I've done extensive wardriving and warflying throught the Des Moines Metro area...... If you are only 30 miles from Des Moines, get on your roof or the highest point in your area, get out your binoculars or telescope, if you can see any of the towers or buildings in the Downtown area, chances are you can get some WIFI action, build yourself a directional and play around, search prior slashdot for articles on buidling your own wifi antenna, trevor marsh comes to mind. If that doesn't work find the closest Farmers COOP, they all have a T1 of data coming in for access to commodities pricing and weather reports, offer to wireless them up and put an antenna on the top of the tower, then shoot the signal over to you.........

Re:Expand Coverage

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you stupid? MIcrocell doesn't have money, the the other two companies are spending money on the network, Microcell offers the spectrum. Why wouldn't jump on the bandwagon, and be able to pull in some extra cash, so they can then offer better coverage?

Virginia Coverage

[ThoreauHD]

If you are in the state of Virginia, USA. There is a 3 MBit wireless host called:

http://www.r-comm.net/

They are friendly fellas and their rates are comparable with DSL pricing. Nice if you are out in the sticks.

argh

[tinkertank]

I know! It's torture here in Ottawa Too! Why Cumberland as the test site? I'm only a few KM away, but I can't get access to that system.... If you ran it on batteries, you could have 2.2Mb all the way downtown... Not that the 3.3Mb service we get with ADSL is anything to snub your nose at, but you are tethered to a landline...

Re:argh

[Anonymous Coward]

Because there are no competitors in Cumberland, whereas there are in Ottawa. It's a market test.

That would be great if

[Anonymous Coward]

Fido didnt't suck so much ass.

Fido using NextNet hardware

[ablcmx]

They are using the NextNet (www.nextnetwireless) hardware - OFDM technology. This seems to be part of the Inukshuk (www.inukshuk.ca) project.

Re:Fido using NextNet hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

And I wonder why they don't use a real product, like SOMA Networks (www.somanetworks.com). 12 Mbps and integrated voice. Imagine if Fido could start competing on "landline" voice service as well? Or Bell Canada in Telus land...without having to lease lines or own copper?

Re:Fido using NextNet hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably because the 802.16 gear SOMA provide is still just another glorified piece of unlicensed consumer grade junk. This is great, until everyone and their dog is using it and the interference renders the technology almost useless, oh yeah , and something about a 500mW EIRP.

Fido is using NextNet Wireless gear in a licensed spectrum (I won't bother providing links since you obviously din't bother to RTFA anyway) with an EIRP more than 10x greater.

Re:Fido using NextNet hardware

[Krugorg]

What's your definition of a "real product?" SOMA has zero commercial deployments. Glad you had time to read their marketing spec sheets, but there is no way they can deliver 12 Mbps.

Re:Fido using NextNet hardware

[ablcmx]

Hmm...they seem to be using W-CDMA in at least the licensed PCS band: http://www.bbwexchange.com/publications/newswires/ page546-614840.asp

Where did you get the 500mW EIRP #?

Re:You're not thinking in the right frame of mind.

[mike449]

Cumberland is mostly rural area, with many people living outside of Rogers (cable) and Bell (DSL) service areas.

Fido's offering is MMDS

[puzzled]

MMDS is Multipoint Microwave Distribution System. The system uses RF spectrum between 2500 and 2700 MHz and if I recall correctly is required by the terms of the license to use only horizontal polarization.

The radio physics behind it are exactly the same as an 802.11b network - line of site required, free space loss, etc are all very similar.

The MAC layer is designed for access rather than wireless lan so it'll act much better than an 802.11b cell - think 802.11b with Karlnet or Alvarion Breeze Access II.

MMDS licenses exist all over the United States and in my particular state some loser telco (now in chapter 11) bought the rights for *one dollar* and never did anything with it.

The equipment is pricey, the odds of it dropping are pretty low because there isn't volume production, and it'll have the same behavior problems as 802.11b minus the dueling operators issues. Don't hold your breath for it coming to your area and it'll be a slave to IP bandwidth economics just like any other distribution medium. You can read up on IP bandwidth economics in my journal since I am not posting that junk again.

Slashdot covers wireless issues the way Seventeen magazine covers boy bands. A teeny, tiny bit of scepticism would go a loooooooong way.

Re:Fido's offering is MMDS

[ablcmx]

Umm, sorry but MMDS is just a frequency band and that has nothing directly to do with LOS and free-space loss. It's all behind the radio technology and power outputs. Sure the higher the frequency the higher the propogation loss due to obstacles (including air). But there are certainly NLOS applications at around that frequency. It may not be very good, but 802.11a certainly does not require LOS to operate (ie it works through walls and small buildings).

Re:Fido's offering is MMDS

[puzzled]

This is a somewhat incoherent response.

Free space loss is directly related to frequency, unless you're a slashdot visitor from some alternate dimension. MMDS will be just a teeny bit worse on free space loss than 802.11b because it is just slightly higher frequency wise.

NLOS is snake oil as anyone who has ever installed microwave systems will tell you. Frequency doesn't matter, OFDM only helps a tiny little bit, and if you base a business plan on it you are and completely and utterly screwed.

I don't doubt you can pull out anecdotal evidence of one functioning NLOS install in a building, over a 2 km path on an island in the Bermuda triangle, etc, but in practice no one goes out to do NLOS data installs with the possible exception of 900MHz equipment and then NLOS is often defined as LOS through foliage.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I've done lots of installs at all sorts of distances and there are immense snake oil reserves out there on the subject ...

Re:Fido's offering is MMDS

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, It isn't line of sight. Check out the manufacturers site at www.nextnetwireless.com

Re:Fido's offering is MMDS

[hibachi]

[Disclaimer: Our company was the first to roll out MMDS based service in Canada, back on February 11, and we are partners with Inukshuk.]

We have been working with wireless technology for years, and until a few months ago I would have agreed 100% that non-line of sight was snake oil, a holy grail, and called it a few other things inappropriate for mixed company.

OFDM is simply black freaking magic. We have had somewhere in the order of 95% penetration in a 4km radius of our primary base station. (Fido's distance estimate is highly conservative.) We have a second base station online now, and it is almost impossible to find places in this town where you can not find a hot signal. As someone who never would have believed it possible, it blew me away completely, and continues to do so.

Frankly, we never would have launched the service if it wasn't true non-line of sight. This product is true multi-path, and is transmitting at high power. There is a 200' hill of ROCK between my house and our base station, and in my basement, facing away from the base, I get a perfect signal. Any suggestion that it is remotely similar to or even resembles 802.11 is completely off base.

We have rolled quite a few CPEs out the door now. Pretty much without exception every single customer has gone home, plugged it in, and it has worked. I am not lying when I say literally not more than 1% of end users have had a problems getting a signal. Of the 99% who had no problem, there are a good handful who are in marginal areas and it has fully tripped me out that they found signal.

Anyhow, this stuff is seriously cool technology that has a real chance to compete with cable and DSL.
Cheers,
Graham Blake
Manager, Network Operations
SSI Micro Internet Services
Yellowknife, NWT

Re:Fido's offering is MMDS

[puzzled]

FYI the manufacturer will tell you the di-lithium crystals only need to be replaced every ten thousand light years or so.

OFDM is a good thing, but it ain't all that. Claims of non line of site operation are nice, with some of the products it will work a lot of the time, but you can never, ever build a business plan based on the builder's claim of radio performance.

Write me when you've done fifty installs and let me know how well it works :-)

Re:Fido's offering is MMDS

[hibachi]

We have done far more than 50 installs with the NextNet wireless system, and it works, for lack of a better word, perfectly.
Cheers,
Graham

Re:Fido's offering is MMDS

[puzzled]

Graham,

Have you publicized your success ratio on the part-15.org mailing list? I'm not paying as much attention to it as when I owned a wireless ISP but your successes. Has Steve Stroh covered your installation yet? Respond in thread with some hints about what your email address might be - I'd like to hear a bit more about what you've accomplished.

-puzzled

Re:Fido's offering is MMDS

[hibachi]

No, hadn't seen part-15.org before now. I would be happy to answer any questions about our roll-out of the service. Feel free to email me at grahamb"at"ssimicro.com.

Anyone who has ever dreamed of true NLOS, this is it. Believe me, we are an extremely cynical group of techs, and we wouldn't have believed this kind of coverage was possible if it weren't staring us in the face. We've been looking for this very kind of solution for a long time, and have repeatedly been disappointed by bullshit marketing.

I can't say how ideal of a solution this will be in true urban environments. We will have to see how this Fido service turns out. In small markets, with inadequate cable or DSL service, this could be exactly what the small provider could be looking for to get back into the game.

We watched our dial-up service erode away while customers migrated over to the cable and DSL services we are excluded from. We have been going crazy for years wanting to compete in the broadband market, and this is the first product that has enabled us to do it. We repeatedly hear from people how dissatisfied they are with cable in our market. I would say approximately 75% of our wireless sign-ups have been migrations from cable to us. We have heard of *line-ups* of people at the local cable provider returning their cable modems. That's fun!

The near complete lack of technical support new customers require is truly astonishing. This gear requires no truck roll, and almost everyone has been able to immediately lock on to a strong enough signal for a perfect data link. The NextNet gear uses 1/2 FEC, which some might consider a waste of bandwidth, but it means an essentially rock solid connection for everyone. Generally, this gear either works perfectly, or it doesn't work at all - and that has been a dramatic exception to the norm.

Anyhow, yeah... obviously I am enthusiastic about this gear, and I could go on and on. We take a lot of pride in being an old-school, small scale ISP that busts our ass to be the best at what we do. I have watched blood, sweat, and tears go to waste as our customer base dwindled these past few years. Now our customer base is growing again, and I couldn't be more stoked.
Cheers.

Sounds a bit like Locust Mesh

[matt_wilts]

Locustworld.com

2500 MHz: isn't that 2.5 GHz?

[nietsch]

Not unlike Wifi, cordless phones to jam former, microwave ovens to donate parts to make a cordless phone jammer etc.,?
These and a lot of other devices all operate in this band, so expect some interference.

no I did not bother to read the article, so I could be 50-100 MHz off.

Better yet...

[arobas]

Now can I get cell internet *without* the voice service and run VoIP ? :^)

1D Christmas Tree?

[Vagary]

Um, doesn't a 1D Christmas tree look just like all the other 1D shapes: a line? I would describe this as more like a double-sided saw. And since Yagis are so regularly encased in a tube, I think I'd just say they look like this.

Varied Reception Doesn't Matter

[Vagary]

Looking at the page for this product, it looks like the same form-factor as a DSL or cable modem, so I'm guessing that this is not intended as a portable Internet connection. Therefore, it doesn't really matter if it doesn't work in some buildings as long as it works in yours.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

[edunbar93]

Wow! 25 gigs for only $40 a month? That's a great deal! Considering that most isps around here most certainly do have traffic limitations. And those of us slashdotters who work for companies that have large internet connections know full well what bandwidth is really worth. For instance on an OC3 (155Mbps) you're getting a wholesale rate of only $3 per gigabyte, plus the connection fee of $300 a month and a setup fee of around $3000 or more. Included bandwidth? None.

So $40 per month for 25 gigs? And extra gigs at only $10 each? You're practically ripping them off.

They're doing it in San Francisco

[PCM2]

how cool it would be if everyone had a Wireless Access Point on their rooftop, and formed a p2p wireless mini-internet with no bandwidth restrictions and free for all (minus the cost of the hardware).

Right now (as another poster mentioned), it's hard to scale this type of network effectively. But they're already working on ways to make it happen in San Francisco. The cost of the rooftop APs is a little out of reach for any but the most diehard geeks (or free wireless advocates), but hopefully the research will yield some new insights.

Re:richmond? (still off topic.)

[mmontano]

Nope. Likely a long lost relative. Say hi when you run into him.