Well, it is Open Source, so some enterprising leftie will write a screen/button flipper for the thing - you'll just need to learn how to use the buttons upside down (left arrow will change to right via software, but the pad will be at the bottom, not the top).
That was pulled in as an example, in order to illustrate why using Java - without a Free implementation - would leave the FSF et. al. vulnerable to a nasty set of circunmstances. I should have prefaced it with "For example, ", I imagine.
Would you like to explain to me WHY THIS IS SUN'S PROBLEM? They have given everything away except for the actual rights to Java itself. If the GNU Foundation can't produce an Open JVM based on open specs and fully available source code, THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM.
No reason to shout. The GNU Foundation not having a JVM isn't Suns problem at all. It is still a problem, however, and one that needed to be dealt with.
If a malevolent entity hit Linus with a bus and acquired his Linux trademarks, and with the number of evil people out there it's a real possibility, could that entity do damange? Oh boy, you bet!
This is non-sensical. As well, Linus' code is fully under the GPL - any one of the higher profile kernel devs can take over where he left off, and your "pie in the sky" Evil Doer would end up coding by himself. The same cannot be said for Java at present.
Come off this nonsense people. Sun is not losing money hand over fist (they're more or less breaking even right now), and they've made it perfectly possible for others to replicate their technology. Why is the OSS community blaming their failure to do so on Sun?
Sun is not losing money, but they are still a potential takeover target with their stock price where it is. Their tech is being replicated (which, if you RTFA, you'd see that this is the solution that everyone agrees is best) finally because the licensing restrictions were loosened quite a bit.
Please listen - we do not hate Sun. We just will not blindly give up control of a major OSS project to someone or something whom we aren't absoloutely certin we can trust 5, 10 or 50 years from now.
Sun still ultimately controls Java, and how Java is licensed. They also have a history of viewing colleagues _solely_ as competitors - something to be destroyed, not a person to share ideas with. This makes some in the OSS community nervous, since we can't guarantee that any Java components will remain Free Software in perpetuity.
Sun may actually want to play nice with the OSS community (I'm beginning to think that they do, but I'm still not sure), but I think they have a problem with the fact that they are joining the community, it's no longer the community joining them. Ergo, they need to play by the communities rules until such a time as they've earned a respected place in that community, and can set directions and agendas.
I've always believed that the RIAA is more interested in control than sales.
The Internet is a distribution channel that they will never (hopefully) fully control. If they can't control their means of distribution, they can't provide stable financial data - which tends to conflict with what share holders want in a company.
Internet distribution can make the RIAA totally irrelevant. With the right hardware and new applications, almost anyone can make, record and distribute quality music. The RIAA is fighting for it's very existance, IMHO.
The slashdot blurb here says that David Wallace and Maureen O'Gara filed this lawsuit
No, it didn't. Please at least read the submission:
he by filing a lawsuit in Indiana court saying the GPL is nothing more than a price fixing scheme, designed to drive software vendors out of business, and she by parroting the proprietary vendors "The GPL kills buisness" mantra (as well as a few well placed insults at the free software community).
Ms. O'Gara either dug this suit up somehow, or Mr. Wallace issued a press release that only she paid attention to. Odd that.
I'm surprised that Slashdot actually posted this drivel on the front page
As was I, believe it or not - I thought maybe Slashback would be a good place for it. I also avoided the war of words that seems to be going on between PJ and Andrew Orlowski - it's extraneous to the discussion at hand, a little sad to see, and has been covered yesterday. Guess PJs a little miffed at El Reg - 'Hell hath no fury like a paralegal who has her facts questioned' to borrow a phrase. Whatever - I'm still trying to fathom the unmitigated gall of Mr. Wallace. Human stupidity is an amazing thing at times.
(well actually the real surprise was the lack of spelling errors!)
And what happens when a state decides that two 17 year old boys who have sex with each other are sex offenders? The problem is not that violent sex offenders should be monitored. The problem is, who decides who is a sex offender?
Ummmm... This is only applied to convicted offenders in a court of law. You know, that whole "trial" thing, with a jury of 12 of your peers and a judge and all. That's who decides who is a sex offender. As it should be.
I'm all for civil liberties, as long as those liberties don't endanger or hurt anyone else. As a parent, I'd certainly like to know who has been convicted of abusing children, so I can better protect my child. For once, Think of the children! actually applies.
The entire financial sector bases its existance on Excel. Brokers, bankers, and virtually every banking or stock related position has a deep dependance on Excel. Laugh all you like at the thought of a professional excel developer, but I highly doubt that these firms will simply drop Excel in favour of some smelly nerds coding in C#.
-- Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
A very apropos sig, friend. Now you know why I wouldn't code anything overly importatnt in Excel/VBA.
As opposed to the well paid bias of any other nation-state and it's corporate favorites? Please.
The point I was making is that it's a technical comittee - politics shouldn't be involved in order for the best decisions to be made. The ideal outcome would be a level playing field where the company/person with the best tech would win out - not those who have skewed the decisions to benefit thier cronies.
The American Left has failed miserably.
So has the Canadian Left - I'm north of the border - but again, that has nothing to do with the best technology.
People on comittees like this should be selected for thier ability to turn off thier emotions and work out the best solution to the problem at hand. How it's implemented is up to the market.
This may sound like a good idea, but those laws would be infringing on freedom of speech, a main component to our constitution. In addition, I don't understand what the problem is. If you wanted someone to represent you wouldn't you want that person to be like minded and have a favorable opinion of you?
WTF? This is a technical comittee - IOW it should be attended by the people best able to discern what technologies are best suited to the job. Any technical decision biased by personal politics should immediately disqualify anyone. Technical merit should rule supreme.
Again, what the fuck does being a Dem supporter have to to with technical competence?
This is the administration barring *individuals* based on thier polital past - it has nothing to do with thier competence with respect to a technical comittee.
Mayhap the Administration is ensuring that this "International" comittee is going to choose "standards" that are biased to favour Corporate America? Naw, couldn't be...
Then again, Sun could always pull a SCO after they open everything up. Wait a few months then claim 'Look! Those Linux hippies are stealing our code and ideas!'. Yes that's a joke and not a likely scenario;)
It's not funny. If Johnathan Schwartz can take out Red Hat this way, he will. Yeah, it's just business, but if he tries to hit Red Hat or Novell this way, so goes Debian, Gentoo and the rest.
Sun is a competitive, not collaborative company, so I'm not what you would call trusting of them.
One of these days they're going to invent something, and they'll call it a backspace key. It will allow computer users to delete what they've already typed, without having to type ^W or ^H
Yeah, but it'll be patented in the USA, so posts like the trol^Wgrandparent won't be going away for a while.
Commercial Release is whenver the copyright holder says it's been released, not a moment sooner or after.
In your analogy, sharing a screen-capped Futurama ep. should be legal, since it was released to the public for consumption. A pre-release RIP of that shows DVD would be a violation. It's not that hard once you remove an overly emotional response and think about it, dude.
To the grandparent post:
Jhon: When I first read your post it was at (0, Troll). The Mods were in in groupthink mode.
Instead of just allowing another poster to see your post and try to refute your point, they do thier best to get rid of it so no one has to think whether or not violating copyright law is ethical, or whether Slashbots are being hypocrites by downloading content against the wishes of the (c) holder while condeming anyone who dares violate the GPL. I'm glad some mods with half a brain caught on and rescued your comment from the Troll-bin.
And to the Mods about to assign this post to the Troll-bin - Karma be damned. I've almost had it with this place.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, it is Open Source, so some enterprising leftie will write a screen/button flipper for the thing - you'll just need to learn how to use the buttons upside down (left arrow will change to right via software, but the pad will be at the bottom, not the top).
Soko
That was pulled in as an example, in order to illustrate why using Java - without a Free implementation - would leave the FSF et. al. vulnerable to a nasty set of circunmstances. I should have prefaced it with "For example, ", I imagine.
Soko
Would you like to explain to me WHY THIS IS SUN'S PROBLEM? They have given everything away except for the actual rights to Java itself. If the GNU Foundation can't produce an Open JVM based on open specs and fully available source code, THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM.
No reason to shout. The GNU Foundation not having a JVM isn't Suns problem at all. It is still a problem, however, and one that needed to be dealt with.
If a malevolent entity hit Linus with a bus and acquired his Linux trademarks, and with the number of evil people out there it's a real possibility, could that entity do damange? Oh boy, you bet!
This is non-sensical. As well, Linus' code is fully under the GPL - any one of the higher profile kernel devs can take over where he left off, and your "pie in the sky" Evil Doer would end up coding by himself. The same cannot be said for Java at present.
Come off this nonsense people. Sun is not losing money hand over fist (they're more or less breaking even right now), and they've made it perfectly possible for others to replicate their technology. Why is the OSS community blaming their failure to do so on Sun?
Sun is not losing money, but they are still a potential takeover target with their stock price where it is. Their tech is being replicated (which, if you RTFA, you'd see that this is the solution that everyone agrees is best) finally because the licensing restrictions were loosened quite a bit.
Please listen - we do not hate Sun. We just will not blindly give up control of a major OSS project to someone or something whom we aren't absoloutely certin we can trust 5, 10 or 50 years from now.
Soko
Excuse me, but Java IS Free. That is, GCJ and the Classpath version. That is Java, and it's Free.
Which I fully agree is the solution to the whole problem.
I was merely trying to temper the GPs obvious cry of "Sun would never hurt OSS!" with some reality, is all.
Soko
The truth is that Sun has bent over backwards for the OSS community, and all they get for their troubles are painful stabs in the back.
*Sigh*
This is not about whether Sun is a benevolent company or not, or if Java is a good solution or not.
Is Java nice? Yup. Is it the right tool for the job? Obviously.
Are most of the people at Sun trying to be a good OSS citizens? You betcha.
Is Java Free Software? Nope. Not yet, it isn't.
That's where all of the problems stem from.
What if Sun suddenly did turn malevolent (Schwartz - one of the loud mouths - is no fan of the GPL, after all) could they do real damage? Yup.
If a malevolent entity bought Sun - with a depressed Sun stock, it's a real possibility - could that entity do damage? Oh boy, you bet.
It's not stabbing Sun in the back - it's protecting the backs of OSS developers and users now and in the future.
Soko
It's a matter of control.
Sun still ultimately controls Java, and how Java is licensed. They also have a history of viewing colleagues _solely_ as competitors - something to be destroyed, not a person to share ideas with. This makes some in the OSS community nervous, since we can't guarantee that any Java components will remain Free Software in perpetuity.
Sun may actually want to play nice with the OSS community (I'm beginning to think that they do, but I'm still not sure), but I think they have a problem with the fact that they are joining the community, it's no longer the community joining them. Ergo, they need to play by the communities rules until such a time as they've earned a respected place in that community, and can set directions and agendas.
It isn't 1999 any more.
Soko
I tied my vacuum cleaner to my dog. Will this replace the roomba?
No. It's better.
See, now the vacuum, Roomba and your attempt at humour all suck, so that's a lot more suckage than a Roomba alone.
Soko
(OK, it's flamebait, but Monday sucked too.)
I've always believed that the RIAA is more interested in control than sales.
The Internet is a distribution channel that they will never (hopefully) fully control. If they can't control their means of distribution, they can't provide stable financial data - which tends to conflict with what share holders want in a company.
Internet distribution can make the RIAA totally irrelevant. With the right hardware and new applications, almost anyone can make, record and distribute quality music. The RIAA is fighting for it's very existance, IMHO.
Soko
have ganged up once again to protect thier version of ...
Oh damn. I have to remember...
"I" before "E", except after c, or before you hit the bloody Submit button.
*bangs head off desk a couple of times
Soko
No, it didn't. Please at least read the submission:
Ms. O'Gara either dug this suit up somehow, or Mr. Wallace issued a press release that only she paid attention to. Odd that.
Soko
I'm surprised that Slashdot actually posted this drivel on the front page
As was I, believe it or not - I thought maybe Slashback would be a good place for it. I also avoided the war of words that seems to be going on between PJ and Andrew Orlowski - it's extraneous to the discussion at hand, a little sad to see, and has been covered yesterday. Guess PJs a little miffed at El Reg - 'Hell hath no fury like a paralegal who has her facts questioned' to borrow a phrase. Whatever - I'm still trying to fathom the unmitigated gall of Mr. Wallace. Human stupidity is an amazing thing at times.
(well actually the real surprise was the lack of spelling errors!)
From my submission:
Mr. O'Gara or Ms. Wallace
That was a typo. Honest.
Soko
And what happens when a state decides that two 17 year old boys who have sex with each other are sex offenders? The problem is not that violent sex offenders should be monitored. The problem is, who decides who is a sex offender?
Ummmm... This is only applied to convicted offenders in a court of law. You know, that whole "trial" thing, with a jury of 12 of your peers and a judge and all. That's who decides who is a sex offender. As it should be.
I'm all for civil liberties, as long as those liberties don't endanger or hurt anyone else. As a parent, I'd certainly like to know who has been convicted of abusing children, so I can better protect my child. For once, Think of the children! actually applies.
Soko
Excellent idea. Truly excellent.
Though, it reminds me of how my dad used to answer the phone on occasion.
"Heaven, God speaking."
Soko
The entire financial sector bases its existance on Excel. Brokers, bankers, and virtually every banking or stock related position has a deep dependance on Excel. Laugh all you like at the thought of a professional excel developer, but I highly doubt that these firms will simply drop Excel in favour of some smelly nerds coding in C#.
--
Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
A very apropos sig, friend. Now you know why I wouldn't code anything overly importatnt in Excel/VBA.
Soko
As opposed to the well paid bias of any other nation-state and it's corporate favorites? Please.
The point I was making is that it's a technical comittee - politics shouldn't be involved in order for the best decisions to be made. The ideal outcome would be a level playing field where the company/person with the best tech would win out - not those who have skewed the decisions to benefit thier cronies.
The American Left has failed miserably.
So has the Canadian Left - I'm north of the border - but again, that has nothing to do with the best technology.
People on comittees like this should be selected for thier ability to turn off thier emotions and work out the best solution to the problem at hand. How it's implemented is up to the market.
Soko
This may sound like a good idea, but those laws would be infringing on freedom of speech, a main component to our constitution. In addition, I don't understand what the problem is. If you wanted someone to represent you wouldn't you want that person to be like minded and have a favorable opinion of you?
WTF? This is a technical comittee - IOW it should be attended by the people best able to discern what technologies are best suited to the job. Any technical decision biased by personal politics should immediately disqualify anyone. Technical merit should rule supreme.
Again, what the fuck does being a Dem supporter have to to with technical competence?
Soko
What are you smoking, dude?
This is the administration barring *individuals* based on thier polital past - it has nothing to do with thier competence with respect to a technical comittee.
Mayhap the Administration is ensuring that this "International" comittee is going to choose "standards" that are biased to favour Corporate America? Naw, couldn't be...
Soko
I've never picked up a spoon and thought, "wow that's a pretty input device.."?
;-)
But... there is no spoon.
Soko
Sounds like it might be cool. But not as cool as Slashdot Radio [thesync.com] was.
Moderation: (-1, Asskissing)
Soko
If you can get Canadian cable, you can catch Leo on Call for Help. Almost like the Screen Savers, and Amber is hawt.
Soko
Then again, Sun could always pull a SCO after they open everything up. Wait a few months then claim 'Look! Those Linux hippies are stealing our code and ideas!'. Yes that's a joke and not a likely scenario ;)
It's not funny. If Johnathan Schwartz can take out Red Hat this way, he will. Yeah, it's just business, but if he tries to hit Red Hat or Novell this way, so goes Debian, Gentoo and the rest.
Sun is a competitive, not collaborative company, so I'm not what you would call trusting of them.
Soko
One of these days they're going to invent something, and they'll call it a backspace key. It will allow computer users to delete what they've already typed, without having to type ^W or ^H
;-)
Yeah, but it'll be patented in the USA, so posts like the trol^Wgrandparent won't be going away for a while.
Unless, of course, you're posting from India.
Soko
I'm seriously not trying to start a flame war here, but I thought I'd recommend ColdFusion for anyone wanting to do quick J2EE stuff.
Suuuure, if we want closed, bloated technology that's controlled at the whims of a single company, as opposed to Java which... is....
Nevermind.
Soko
Commercial Release is whenver the copyright holder says it's been released, not a moment sooner or after.
In your analogy, sharing a screen-capped Futurama ep. should be legal, since it was released to the public for consumption. A pre-release RIP of that shows DVD would be a violation. It's not that hard once you remove an overly emotional response and think about it, dude.
To the grandparent post:
Jhon: When I first read your post it was at (0, Troll). The Mods were in in groupthink mode.
Instead of just allowing another poster to see your post and try to refute your point, they do thier best to get rid of it so no one has to think whether or not violating copyright law is ethical, or whether Slashbots are being hypocrites by downloading content against the wishes of the (c) holder while condeming anyone who dares violate the GPL. I'm glad some mods with half a brain caught on and rescued your comment from the Troll-bin.
And to the Mods about to assign this post to the Troll-bin - Karma be damned. I've almost had it with this place.
Soko
I dunno, I think both of them cam manage. They've pissed off the entire industry for years already, and seem to be going strong.
Soko