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Blizzard Backs Down On Real Names For Forums

Ashe Tyrael writes "Earlier this week, Blizzard announced that they were going to be implementing changes in their official forums (for StarCraft II when it launched, and for WoW prior to Cataclysm) that would require users to post under their real names, as part of the Real ID system. After perusing nearly 14,000 European and 50,000 US forum posts, the majority of which decried this move with various levels of vehemence, it looks like Blizzard has given in to the pressure. From the official statement: 'We've been constantly monitoring the feedback you've given us, as well as internally discussing your concerns about the use of real names on our forums. As a result of those discussions, we've decided at this time that real names will not be required for posting on official Blizzard forums.' Not that this doesn't leave room for them to re-implement this at a later date, but that's a pretty definite 'no.' It was clear they were going to take criticism, but the size of the backlash was impressive. It seems likely Blizzard simply wasn't expecting that level of antipathy toward their new policy.

432 comments

  1. Pretty Obvious Reasoning by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I'm no insider, I don't use the forums all that much but I did play WoW for two years. But you know there were some real jerks in WoW. And it's pretty simple to imagine that you have some really active jerks on the forums that are truly only maybe a few percentage points of the gaming population. It's well known that a pseudonym enables people to be complete assholes. Complete. And I'd bet that the moderators of these forums were sick and tired of seeing cases where this happened. Either someone said something really inflammatory or got under the skin of a beginner -- turning them off to the game. Some people are sensitive and even Mr. Rogers won't undo what a bully can do.

    So Blizzard probably estimated that 90% of those jerks would stop being jerks if their name appeared by their asshole posts. So what if 1% of the population complains about RealID? But in doing so, Blizzard totally ignored the other 98% of the populations enjoyment of privacy. And in doing so once they decided this would be mandatory for the betterment of the community, the rest of the community interjected and seemed to prefer the assholes and their privacy to the converse where the assholes now know who you are. To many of us, this isn't really a surprise.

    Not that this doesn't leave room for them to re-implement this at a later date, but that's a pretty definite 'no.'

    I disagree. I see Blizzard still chasing this dream of moderation through identity and drastically reducing their moderation. I would bet we shortly see a scheme where RealID is opt in with the catch being that if you aren't using RealID then each of your posts has to be read by a moderator before it is approved as viewable by anyone else. Community regulation can be a difficult and touchy subject with gamers and I suspect this is only the beginning of a very long trial run where Blizzard tries to find the happy medium between anonymity and self regulation.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you even read the post you responded to?

    2. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The real answer is to track down the trolls, and permanently ban them from the game as well as the forum, block their IP and and their e-mail address. Well, only a 10 or 35 day ban in the IP since it's probable assigned via DHCP and will get re-assigned to someone else.

      They need to (if they don't already) specify that if people get banned for this reason they don't get a refund on their subscription.

      People will still troll, and and trolls will find a way back in, but if you make it difficult and expensive enough most trolls will just go troll /. for free.

      Of course there are a lot of basement dwellers with a lot of time on their hands and their mom's Visa card...

      This might piss a number of people off, but I know that if Xbox Live had this policy a few years ago I'd still be a member. Instead I purchased my xbox 360 and only play standalone games on it - I'm not paying to listen to the blathering rantings of 30 year old basement dwellers that behave like 12 year olds...

      --
      I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
    3. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by NormalVisual · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I see Blizzard still chasing this dream of moderation through identity and drastically reducing their moderation.

      This is what annoys me. Blizzard *already* is not providing an adequate level of customer service IMO - you gotta love waiting 3 days to have a ticket answered in WoW, only to be given the same "disable your add-ons, and clear your Cache, Interface, and WTF folders" canned response. They've got bugs in the game that have been there for *years*, and often don't appear to put any kind of real QA effort into their releases (witness the fiasco a few months ago for the "Love is in the Air" event that had their servers down for *days*). They're pulling in roughly $150 million *per month* from the damn game, and they're still trying to reduce the level of service even further.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    4. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      35 = 15.

      --
      I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
    5. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Ephemeriis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's well known that a pseudonym enables people to be complete assholes. Complete. And I'd bet that the moderators of these forums were sick and tired of seeing cases where this happened. Either someone said something really inflammatory or got under the skin of a beginner -- turning them off to the game. Some people are sensitive and even Mr. Rogers won't undo what a bully can do.

      So Blizzard probably estimated that 90% of those jerks would stop being jerks if their name appeared by their asshole posts.

      I agree that anonymity allows people to be the kind of jerks that you wouldn't want to be if your reputation was at stake. But I don't believe that you necessarily have to reveal somebody's real name to counteract that.

      In-game, you develop a reputation. If you're enough of an asshole (lootwhore, n00b, whatever) in-game, folks won't want to play with you. They'll put you on their ignore list. You'll be ostracized.

      Right now, you can roll up a new character easily enough and shrug off the reputation of your old character. Or create a character specifically for the purpose of being an asshole. You can log in as "Joe the Night Elf" and be a nice guy and go on all the raids... And then you can log in as "Ed the Dwarf" and be a complete asshole... And nobody knows it's the same person. Ed's bad reputation does not affect Joe at all.

      All you have to do is make it clear that those two characters are owned by the same account. Then if everybody hates Ed because he's an asshole, they know that Joe is also that same asshole, and they can hate him too.

      Associating these characters with your real name is not necessary. And, in fact, I think it creates the potential for some real abuse. Folks will happily harass you to the greatest extent they can for some really stupid shit. They'll post random garbage on the forums, spam you in-game, email you, whatever they can. If you give them enough personal information, they'll happily harass you in the real world as well.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    6. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But you know there were some real jerks in WoW.

      There are some real jerks on the highway, in line at the grocery store, and at your workplace. These are the same people who post GNAA trolls and goatse links.

      So Blizzard probably estimated that 90% of those jerks would stop being jerks if their name appeared by their asshole posts.

      Their estimates were 100% wrong. Assholes will be assholes no matter what.

    7. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Yeah it's all about the users. Nothing at all to do with tying pseudonyms to real names so they can be data mined and the info sold to the highest bidder to market more crap at them while paying for the privilege. No sirree.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    8. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A) there are many reasons for people not wanting their real name to appear. None fo them have anythign to do with trolling.

      ALL of them might not be about trolling, but you're flat out dreaming if you think you can state that NONE of them are about trolling.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    9. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blizzard has quite a few moderators, but that aside they are implementing a lot of other policing procedures for the forums. Including discussion grouping (of which I forget the actual name), and the ability to "rate down" posts so they are no longer visible.

    10. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      The problem with banning is that some ISP's dish out multiple IP's (one here gives you 2 for the price of one, and you can buy extra ones). So the only way to effectively Ban is to ban a sector, which could negatively affect someone else - Not to mention if you have more than 1 PC per household accessing WoW - you've essentially banned a family for 1 person's infraction (though probably a great way to teach a lesson it would be considered unfair.

      The way to block them would be to freeze their account - which Valve had done a long time ago on their Steam Forums. This got some backlash, I don't know if they still do it, but I wouldn't be surprised. Be an asshat, lose your games.

      But that takes a lot of moderators.

    11. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still don't understand why RealID was ever considered a better solution to keep people in line. After all, they have license keys for games associated with user accounts. Forum access should require valid game keys for the sections they post in. A WoW forum would require a valid WoW key, and that key could be revoked if the moderators see fit. If people are posting inflammatory remarks, warn them or ban their key if necessary. If they want to post or play again, they can fork out the cash to purchase a new key. This way, abusers get punished, Blizzard pockets extra money from selling more keys, and people get to keep their privacy without RealID. Everybody wins.

    12. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Evtim · · Score: 2, Interesting

      People have the right to be complete assholes as long as they do not harm me.

    13. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      All you have to do is make it clear that those two characters are owned by the same account.

      There is problems with this. You can't use the account name because then you are giving out valuable information. I get your account name, I decide to be an asshat, I can set up a script to hack your account. The way Blizzard would try to combat that is to lock you out after so many password attempts, which I would then do endlessly to lock you out because I'm being an asshat.

      The only way around it is to assign some form of public userID that's not associated with the username (like a GUID or numeric like Slashdot) - which isn't in place, and doesn't even do a whole lot, especially when you get into the millions range. (I know you as Ephemeriis, not 315124).

    14. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On my own forums, I have seen one of the moderators turn a name or email address into the full mailing address and phone number of the user. Sometimes even their place of employment. And that's all beside any possible Facebook/Twitter accounts and other basic stuff.

      Do you really want a hellbent WoW troll to have access to that information? One day you win the guy's drop on a raid, the next he's prank calling you or harassing your employer.

    15. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by stanlyb · · Score: 1

      I am not jerk, i don't bully anyone, and i DON"T want my real name, or RealID (whatever that means) to be shown/used/requested. Period. Btw, could you please be sooo good to explain to me what is the direct correlation between the JERK and the REAL NAME? With proof. A real one, not fake one, lol.

    16. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by stonewallred · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That would be nice, but Blizz won't fucking do it. In game, if you are an ass, and I put you on ignore, it will not ignore any of your other toons, just the specific one I ignored. Which is fucking retarded. If I ignored you, I want to ignore you personally, including any alts you have also. Throw in a 50 slot ignore list also, and that explains why I canceled and am staying canceled.

    17. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Monchanger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Blizzard doesn't want to pay to have enough moderators to actually moderate. This idea was to gt around having to do that. Too bad it's based on a false premise.

      That's not moderation you're advocating.

      No authority should be encouraged to be that neck-deep in the business of people. Even if it's just people playing a game. Moderation isn't about having employees read every single stupid thing your customers say (and they do, you just try not to tell them). It's about being responsive to your customers' needs, taking to heart the stuff you need to benefit them (and through them yourself), and taking action when necessary to stop problems.

      As to trolls, they're not going to complain; criminals don't stand up for their rights by admitting their crimes. Allowing only for legitimate complaints results in your false premise.

      Also, you're just plain wrong as to intention. Blizzard's announcement specifically mentioned trolls and their place in the reason behind the intended change: (emphasis mine)

      "The official forums have always been a great place to discuss the latest info on our games, offer ideas and suggestions, and share experiences with other players -- however, the forums have also earned a reputation as a place where flame wars, trolling, and other unpleasantness run wild. Removing the veil of anonymity typical to online dialogue will contribute to a more positive forum environment".

    18. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by imadoofus · · Score: 1

      The easiest option would be to have an "Other characters with this account" option when you come across an asshat.

      You wouldn't need an identifier, but you can see the good character from the asshat, and stay away from both.

      --
      "pr0n": An anagram of "porn," possibly indicating the use of pornography. - www.microsoft.com
    19. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by maxume · · Score: 1

      BEANS!

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    20. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Petron · · Score: 1

      First, it wouldn't stop squat. It's the same idea of "post on your main". People posting on their main character still acted like jerks. People act like jerks on facebook with their real names shown. And nothing was there to stop anybody from opening a new account with a fake name and pay with time-cards. There were many posts of the WoW forums from people admitting they will start a new account with a fake name "Inigo Montoya" "David D Davidson" and "Abe Froman" were already being listed as aliases.

      If Blizzard really wanted to get rid of jerk posts, they could easily ban people doing so... but they have held back on banning, or any form of punishment. They could also add a rank up and rank down system and/or a karma rating. Seems to work pretty well in other places.

      and Second, this has nothing to do with people trolling. It had to do with data farming and Facebook. The CEO of Activision-Blizzard has stated he has a vision of online gaming becoming a social-networking-gaming community and this was just a over zealous grab and making his vision come to light ignoring what others want.

      If Blizzard would of allowed this to be optional to begin with (like Amazon's "Real Name" option), there wouldn't be as much, if any backlash.

      --
      if (it != oneThing) it = another;
    21. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      We saw exactly this in EverQuest 1 where server forums were independent as 989 Studios/Verant didn't have any. Once one server operator found the real life name of a guild leader that he didn't like, he started getting people to call the child protective services in the guy's hometown and allege felonious acts.

      It took tends of thousands of dollars for the guy to defend himself against the DA's inquiry, and to keep his kids.

      Also, don't forget: The EU would have kicked Blizzard's ass to the curb. I'm sure there is a data privacy law being broken somewhere in this mandatory RealID fiasco.

    22. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you get an authenticator...

    23. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by ZerothAngel · · Score: 3, Informative

      Right now, you can roll up a new character easily enough and shrug off the reputation of your old character. Or create a character specifically for the purpose of being an asshole. You can log in as "Joe the Night Elf" and be a nice guy and go on all the raids... And then you can log in as "Ed the Dwarf" and be a complete asshole... And nobody knows it's the same person. Ed's bad reputation does not affect Joe at all.

      All you have to do is make it clear that those two characters are owned by the same account. Then if everybody hates Ed because he's an asshole, they know that Joe is also that same asshole, and they can hate him too.

      Love them or hate them, this is a great feature of Cryptic's games. Every account has a 1:1 mapping to a "handle" (aka "display name" aka "forum name"). When you create a character (for example, "Joe"), in-game, you appear as "Joe," but when you speak in chat, you appear as "Joe@YourHandle." When you right-click or otherwise inspect another character, you also see their handle. And if seeing handles in chat are an immersion-breaker for you, you can easily turn them off -- hovering your mouse over their name in chat will show their full name.

      And one of the great things about this system is that when you friend or ignore someone, you do it based on their handle. So ignoring someone will ignore all their alts and likewise, friending someone will show them online no matter what alt they're on. (Though there has been whining about the latter being a breach of privacy...)

      Although the primary reason I like this system is that it avoids the name land-rush. I can name my characters any name I want (within the rules :P), regardless if it's a dupe. I wish more MMO companies would adopt something similar. Who knows, maybe Real ID (hopefully sans real names) will get there in the future.

    24. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

      They do.

      You have to post as a WoW character in the WoW forums, so you need a character in the first place. Plus you have to post in the proper geographic region. (I can't post in the EU forums cause I don't have a character on any EU realm.)

      I'm also pretty sure trial accounts don't give you the benefit of forum posting.

      So, now that I've told you they have already implimented your suggestion...what's your next brilliant idea?

    25. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by smasha · · Score: 1

      That would be nice, but Blizz won't fucking do it. In game, if you are an ass, and I put you on ignore, it will not ignore any of your other toons, just the specific one I ignored. Which is fucking retarded. If I ignored you, I want to ignore you personally, including any alts you have also. Throw in a 50 slot ignore list also, and that explains why I canceled and am staying canceled.

      I agree completely. This would be a massive win for players since if you ignore someone, all their characters get ignored, which means you can easily ignore an ass with multiple characters, especially those persistent gold sellers that create multiple characters to spam their messages.

    26. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by easterberry · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Moderation isn't about having employees read every single stupid thing your customers say (and they do, you just try not to tell them).

      Trust me. Moderating an online forum is EXACTLY reading every single stupid thing your customers post. "Oh someone started a topic about religion? I guess I can cancel my other plans since my 5 hours will be spent in their reading everything that anyone posts to keep the flames down."

    27. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Ephemeriis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can't use the account name because then you are giving out valuable information.

      Why would you want to use the account name? Sure, it's a simple way to do it... But nobody out there would recognize the account name anyway.

      What you want to do is just list other characters on the same account. You can already inspect a character in WoW to see their equipment and whatnot... Just add a tab/button/whatever that shows you other characters.

      Then if Ed is being an asshat, and I want to add him to my ignore list, I can also take a look at the other characters that Ed plays as and add them to my ignore list as well. Hell, you could make it even easier... When you add a character to your ignore/friends lists you can have a prompt that asks you if you want to add all their characters, or just this one.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    28. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      Can you harm someone online?

      What's the line between being an asshole online and harassing online?

    29. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The main reason people are outraged about this is not the forum aspect. The real thing is the fact that anyone who knows your Battlenet email can access your real name with a few scripts. That Battlenet email is connected via RealID to every Blizzard game out there. Any character you're on, any Blizzard game you're playing- anyone who sees you has the potential to be able to find you in real life.

    30. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by mister_playboy · · Score: 1

      Trust me. Moderating an online forum is EXACTLY reading every single stupid thing your customers post. "Oh someone started a topic about religion? I guess I can cancel my other plans since my 5 hours will be spent in their reading everything that anyone posts to keep the flames down."

      You should have chosen a forum more aligned with your interests! Then it's a great job.

      I moderate at a pr0n forum. :D

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    31. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      I agree as well. They have the technology, through RealID. Not sure why the wouldn't want to do it, though.

    32. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      There are some real jerks on the highway, in line at the grocery store, and at your workplace

      Tell me, are you afforded anonymity at any of those places? Is there a subsequently large protest such as the one against RealID? Why not?

    33. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by sexconker · · Score: 2, Funny

      35 = 15

      Math and science education is seriously lacking.

    34. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by easterberry · · Score: 1

      Sounds like it could still lead to some sticky situations! nyuk nyuk nyuk...

    35. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by quantumplacet · · Score: 3, Funny

      I've never been standing on line at a grocery store and had someone tap me on the shoulder and then scream FAGGOT and show me a picture of an overextended asshole when I turn around. You might want to think about shopping somewhere else.

    36. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      People are used to assholes enough that they lose less customers to the assholes than the revenue the assholes bring in. So it wouldn't be worth it. Repeated 2-5 day bans would be more likely.

    37. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It just occurred to me that RealID is actually a great deterrant.

      The last thing is a troll wants is to be uncovered. So rather than using RealID for everyone, only enable it for people that are deemed to be problems as a punishment. This can be done via moderators or through community comment ratings. Basically keep your rating positive otherwise your real name will be shown, get your rating back up and your real name will be removed. There maybe some additional checks and balances needed to keep people from gaming this system, but I think the concept might work.

      My 2 cents.

    38. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Monchanger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. Not "interesting" at all.

      They're pulling in roughly $150 million

      \
      I'm guessing you're doing a simple $15 * 10M subscribers? That's revenue, not profit. Go get some real numbers about how much discretionary spending they have to put towards QA and come back with an honest argument. If nothing else, how about an estimate of what it would cost to placate you, assuming that's even possible.

      gotta love waiting 3 days ... only to be given the same ... canned response

      Canned responses are there for a reason. Lots of people do need them. You're smarter and almost learned from your mistake. Just run through their checklist and submit a smarter ticket. It'd be great if those didn't solve problems, and if players used the forums as a method of reducing the load on live-help. And again: show us numbers. How many people/shifts/calls per day. What's the backlog, what percent of tickets are solved using the canned response. How about just an to improve the system?

      Complaining is easy, it's also childish to do when making lousy arguments. Blizzard may not be able to "just spend more on QA"- did that ever occur to you? Real life is about making hard decisions, can you handle that? How about $20/mo for faster responses? Postpone Starcraft2, Diablo3, the "next-gen MMO" or the next WoW expansion by a year (no, you can't choose one you don't care about, that's childish again)? Blizzard can do all of these too, but they're probably far worse evils than they ones they choose.

      Of course I could just be a complete idiot and Blizzard is an evil corporation. What do I know I'm a fanboi, right?

    39. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by eharvill · · Score: 1
      --
      At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend I don't care that you're not here with me
    40. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by egburr · · Score: 1

      I don't like the idea of having my full real name out there, but I can think of ways to maintain accountability and reduce trolls without it. Instead of using just the character and server name, also include the poster's account name. Of course, now that Blizzard has made your email address into your account name (another stupid idea IMHO), that isn't such a good idea. So, let people create a unique userid for their account and NOT allow them to change it afterward (or maybe allow one change a year?) and include that userid in the posting.

      Then allow people to ignore (to not see posts from) the userid and have that ignore the account even if the userid changes in the future. Maybe even if a certain small number of people put the userid on ignore then prohibit that account from posting for a day, with a larger number ban them for a couple days, and so on with increasing ban periods as the ignore list grows larger. That should put a good sting into the worst trolls. Maybe even have a game ban if they persist enough.

      The whole problem is lack of consequences for their actions. Anonymity makes it easier to avoid consequences, but a good forum design would go a long way toward providing consequences without having to reveal real names. While having your real name displayed adds some accountability, it does not provide any immediate consequences, only vague potential future problems. Having immediate consequences for their actions will go further to discourage the worst trolls than anything else will.

      I use my real name here on Slashdot because I stand behind what I say; I feel no need to hide from it. This is who I am. I always post on the same character on the WoW forums, again because I stand behind what I say within the virtual world of the game. However, my game-related activities have no bearing on my non-game life, so I do not put my real name on those posts.

      I do occasionally read and post while at work. I need breaks, too, even though I don't go out and smoke during my breaks. But there is no need to connect my posting times with my work schedule and have to explain that I did that during a break instead of smoking.

      --

      Edward Burr
      Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
    41. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The way to block them would be to freeze their account - which Valve had done a long time ago on their Steam Forums. This got some backlash, I don't know if they still do it, but I wouldn't be surprised. Be an asshat, lose your games.
      Thus illustrating the main problem with Steam and all software as a service. Don't get me wrong Valve deciding you cant spam their forums is one thing, deciding they didn't like something you said and removing the ability to play games you purchased is something entirely different.

      --
      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    42. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is a novel thought. If you don't like the service, just stop playing and forking over your money. Wow what a concept.

    43. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by bsane · · Score: 1

      Not the above AC... but:

      So, now that I've told you they have already implimented your suggestion...what's your next brilliant idea?

      If they were actually banning trolls from posting, they wouldn't have this problem. It'd then cost $30 per troll, and I doubt many people would continue. Instead they have the ability to do this, but don't actually follow through very often, and they're trying to use that as an excuse to F their customers.

    44. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1

      Ask the girl that committed suicide after being harassed online.

      I do think you can harm someone online.

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
    45. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Everywhere but the workplace, and even there if it's a large enough company you are afforded some anonymity. You don't know the jerk who cuts in line at the store or takes up three parking spaces in the lot from adam; they're anonymous. There is no protest because it would be a futile gesture.

    46. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      They're pulling in roughly $150 million

      I'm guessing you're doing a simple $15 * 10M subscribers? That's revenue, not profit.

      Further, without China, WoW would be down about 7-8 million, would it not? Everyone forgets this point.

    47. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by seebs · · Score: 1

      I don't believe it for a minute.

      If your problem is "our forums are dominated by people who want to hurt the other posters any way they can", the solution is not "give them the real names of those posters".

      The trolls are posting stuff in the forums because that's the only way they can get at their victims. If they could harass their victims in real life... Well, sure, they'd stop posting in the forums. They wouldn't need to.

      And there is no way anyone thought about this without realizing that.

      This was all about the Facebook deal.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    48. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pretty much agree with the bulk of your response, but...

      No. Not "interesting" at all.

      You were interested enough to reply, so obviously you're wrong about that. Also note that "interesting" does not mean "I agree with this".

    49. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Online assholery is different from meatspace assholery. I've never had my car keyed on the internet, either, nor had it dented by some asshole who doesn't give a shit. Personally, I'd rather they scream FAGGOT and show a picture of goatse than key or dent my car. Trying to troll or flame me costs me nothing, whether on or offline.

    50. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      Isn't that already the case? I thought you could do that. (Perhaps I'm mistaken, its been at least a year since I've had my account even active.)

    51. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by D+Ninja · · Score: 1

      Probably has to be one of the best, well-thought out posts I have read on Slashdot in ages and really walks through some of the difficult problems big corporations face.

      Applause and +1 Internet to you sir.

    52. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by sabt-pestnu · · Score: 2, Informative

      To post on the Blizzard forums, you currently must log in using your battle.net account. So Blizzard already has all the information they need to bad a blatant troll from their forums.

      No, the RealID issue was specifically about a) preventing sockpuppetry via alts, b) shaming trolls into behaving, and possibly c) recasting the forums as a social networking site.

      Sockpuppetry, because a user of the blizzard forums is represented by one or another of the characters on an account. We readers of the forums do not have the information required to tie one user to another.

      They could have done this as well by allowing users to define an account sobriquet distinct from any other account information. But they got lazy: "Hey, we've already got a name associated with the account, let's use that!" Todd Knarr mentioned this in a post below.

      The choice to avoid an "account nickname" may have been influenced by the recent change of WoW accounts from "account name + password" to "real/credit card name + password + optional 'authenticator'). Having removed one non-identifying account name, they may not have been eager to attach another.

    53. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by RobDude · · Score: 1

      Delete the thread as off topic.
      Give the thread creator a 2 hour ban as a warning (unless the user has already received a warning for the same thing in the recent future; escalate ban to 48 hours. If the user is a problem user - permaban then).

      Bam. Problem solved.

      WoW forums are not anonymous. You need an account to post. It's easy to moderate. The trolling and arguing and hatred that goes on is all within the rules Blizzard has set as acceptable.

    54. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Monchanger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, I trust you because you clearly know what you're talking about in that response. Real forum managers can stop flame wars with thread locking and bans, they don't need to waste their life.

      I kind of know what I'm talking about. I moderated on ExpertsExchange years and years ago, where there was no point in reading everything. We moderated where we were needed- users questions, user complaints, open questions. I couldn't give a damn about any other posts unless they were personally interesting to me or became my business through the above demands.

      Do you really think CNN moderates every comment? Think every YouTube producer or Google itself reads every idiotic comment posted on videos? Think every single change on Wikipedia gets checked? There's just too damn much to bother in these cases, and it's not worth it unless you're definitely going to be slapped with a massive lawsuit.

      Want to read everything? That's your call and depends on what kind of forums you want to run. The idiots on Conservapedia tend towards the censorship-loving authoritarian so they may actually care enough.

    55. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Monchanger · · Score: 1

      Not sure what your point is Bob. Venturing a guess that Chinese subscribers aren't paying $15US a month, so revenue is significantly below $150M? That'd be a good point, though I suspect Blizzard's costs in that market get reduced to some effect as well. I wonder if Europe makes a difference one way or another too.

    56. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "That's not moderation you're advocating."

      I enver define, mentions or implied what I mean by moderation.

      ". It's about being responsive to your customers' needs, taking to heart the stuff you need to benefit them (and through them yourself), and taking action when necessary to stop problems."

      That's not moderation, that's customer service.
      Moderation on FORUMS is about booting people that step out of line. Usually giving a warning or to.
      THAT"S what a forum moderator does. Theya re the bouncers to your little club.

      CSRs do what you described. and yes, sometuimes the same person can where both those different hats.

      "As to trolls, they're not going to complain;"
      Yes they are. trolls always complain.

      "riminals don't stand up for their rights by admitting their crimes.
      a, sometime they do,
      B) it ahs nothing to do wiht being a troll. The threat of going to prison and never being abel to get a good job is different then someone who trolls.
      Don't compare them.

      "Also, you're just plain wrong as to intentiom"

      The quoted intention is EXACTLY WHAT I FUCKING SAID THEY ARE TRYING TO STOP, you dickwad.

      "Blizzard doesn't want to pay to have enough moderators to actually moderate. This idea was to gt around having to do that."

      What part of that implied to your tiny, tiny, brain that I said it's not about stopping trolls?

      My point is they are looking for a cheap way to stop trolls. Also, there premise that they will stop trolls is false.

      If they paid enough people to removed improper post, want, and ban people who misbehave, then the visible trolls will diminish.
      Yes I know they have some people that do it, but not enough.

      I would also argue that the risk you put people at by posting their real names, all people not just trolls, far out weight the imagined benefits of removing anonymity.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    57. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by geekoid · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      so, what happens when you are invaded by religious idiots?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    58. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      No specific point, other than to point out that the 10M number is almost certainly bogus at this point.

    59. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real answer is to track down the trolls, and permanently ban them from the game as well as the forum, block their IP and and their e-mail address. Well, only a 10 or 35 day ban in the IP since it's probable assigned via DHCP and will get re-assigned to someone else.

      I get a different IP every time I release/renew from my router, or power cycle the modem. You really think banning an IP is going to make a difference?

    60. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by geekoid · · Score: 1

      DO you really think someone putting their name on there car would stop them from being jerks when they drive? There name on the back of their shirt would make them behave better in the grocery store?

      OTOH, knowing peoples name is probably why there are no asshole movie stars~

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    61. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by jbezorg · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Let me clarify fr [sic] the thinking impaired:

      Honestly, if you are going to bash someone's intelligence, you should be intelligent enough to proofread before you hit the submit button.

      --
      I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
    62. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by easterberry · · Score: 1

      Comments of posts/videos != posts in a forum.
      But rereading I suppose saying "every single" was a poor word choice. Still, on a gaming forum you need a pretty active mod staff to keep some semblance of order.

      While you don't technically read EVERYTHING in your section you watch anything that looks like it'll get volatile and if there's a complaint you go back and read the entire conversation for context. The idea is that between the 10-12 of you at least one of you will read at least 90% of what gets posted.

      I've moderated on actual gaming forums. You moderated a professional help exchange forum. It's a completely different dynamic and environment moderation/administration wise.

    63. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah, you can ignore multiple characters but here's the rub: The ignore list is short.

      Last I remember it was limited to 49 characters. I think they might have upped it but I'm not sure. Also note that you can now play with players from other realms in your battlegroup and they're working to expand that even more.

      All this and a person can make a total of 50 characters (10 max per realm).

      What they need to do is have an ignore account option. If someone is being an ass in trade with a level 1, I don't want to play with their 80s or any other character they have at any other level.

    64. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by easterberry · · Score: 1

      It's not off topic if they post it in the "general discussions" forum. You have to wait for someone to actually break a rule. Besides, I don't want to just ban them all and knock off for tea. It makes me feel like a dick. Sure they start flat out trolling for the sake of it then I throw down the banhammer but you also have to deal with people who just genuinely don't realize that saying "religion is inherently retarded" to a devout christian will make them upset.

    65. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      Not that I'm doubting, I just want to see this article. Source?

    66. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Monchanger · · Score: 1

      Wow. You're one angry little child. Let me know when you grow up and can handle an adult conversation.

    67. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by tophermeyer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The fact is that there are many nasty people that troll the internet for kicks. It stands to reason that many of those people also play WoW and hang out on the Blizzard boards.

      "reasons" does not inherently imply legitimate. If that is what you meant, you should have said that. In fact it is incredibly ironic that while your posts are riddled with spelling and grammatical garbage, you are implying that this other person is lacking a high school education.

      B) Blizzards gas crap for moderators.

      What does this even mean? I can't even deduce what you were trying say.

      zomg srsly lrn 2 spl?

      C) If they had enough moderators, then there wouldn't be a problem on the forums.

      Clearly this is false. Slashdot has about 2 million user ID's, most of us moderate on a semi-regular basis. Yet still garbage like this has been up for hours and has not been modded to oblivion. The problem on internet forums isn't moderators, it's human asshats.

    68. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by RobDude · · Score: 1

      General discussion is supposed to be for 'General *WoW* discussion'; so religion hardly fits, unless it's an in-game religion. But, when Blizz owns the forums, Blizz makes the rules. If they don't want religion in their forums, they can enforce that, easily.

      Bottom line is, people who *aren't* complete trolls and are just expressing their opinions would do so regardless of their name showing up. People who *are* complete trolls can be dealt with using the existing/standard system of banning users (either temporarily or permanently) from the forums.

    69. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you put more then two characters from the same account on ignore it will ignore the whole account. Least it did the last time I played.

    70. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by MoriaOrc · · Score: 1

      Guild Wars has a great way of doing this. Basically, anywhere you use a character name (friends list, ignore list, guild*, whisper), it works if the player is on any character on the same account.

      A few examples from the GPs account setup would be..

      If I add Joe to my friends list, and later he's on Ed, then I'd see on my online friends: "Ed the Dwarf (Joe the Night Elf)". It tells me he's playing on Ed, but it also includes the character name I added him to my friends list so I know who he is if he's playing on some random alt. Guild list works similar to character list, but it doesn't show the "original name" as prominently.

      If I send a whisper to Joe while he's playing on Ed, then the whisper will automatically be redirected to Ed (and I'll see in the chat box that it was).

      The ignore list will block any character on the same account, so if I add Ed to my ignore list, I won't see any chat messages from Joe either. Very convenient, and no account names involved.

    71. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by MisterZimbu · · Score: 1

      Just so you know, Blizzard already has my real name if they want to sell it. No redundant forum changes necessary. They have my credit card number too!

      Remove the tinfoil hat or at least think about what you're saying instead of just throwing out paranoid gibberish.

    72. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by easterberry · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't know. I don't play WoW. The forums I was working for had a general discussion thread for ANYTHING. It was supposed to foster a sense of community I believe.

      Personally I think that the RealId thing is retarded. Like I see where they're coming from but it's still a bad idea. I was just trying to point out that on a gaming forum tight moderation is required because a lot of dumb people and trolls will show up, since the person above me claimed that moderation wasn't about reading everything going on in the discussions which went against my personal experience.

    73. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

      "I agree that anonymity allows people to be the kind of jerks that you wouldn't want to be if your reputation was at stake."

      That very same anonymity also protects me from those jerks, and that is what I am pissed about--the forced loss of this protection.

      Blizzard just circumvented ALL of my efforts to distance myself, as far as possible, from Facebook's data-mining practices. The deal between Activision-Blizzard and Facebook went through months ago. My guess (I can only guess, I no longer trust what they say) is that they have already shared my personal information with Facebook by now. I don't just feel betrayed, I WAS betrayed. The simple fact that I can no longer trust them is an indicator of that betrayal.

      The whole "Real names in the forums" thing was simply an end-run around Blizzard's own privacy policy. The ONLY reason Real ID could be turned off was not because they wanted to provide us with an opt-out, but because child privacy laws are FAR more strict, and they had to in order to comply with those laws. The simple fact that the ONLY place to disable it is in "Parental Controls" seems to be enough confirmation for me.

      It also occurred to me that it is possible that they never intended on implementing the full names thing on the forums, but instead used it as a smoke-screen to "minimize" the backlash from their real goal--full integration with Facebook. That integration may seem like the lesser of two evils to some, when the reality is that the real evil remains.

      I have a 14-year old daughter that also plays (played...) WoW, using my wife's account. So now, even though Real ID is disabled, my daughter's chat logs can now be shared with Facebook. The WoW TOS is quite clear that they intend to/do share information, INCLUDING chat logs and voice communications, with their "partners" regardless of whether or not you have Parental Controls active. The really fucked aspect of this is that I have ZERO way of knowing how exposed I am in terms of privacy and that will remain the case until...it's too late.

      As long as Blizzard has ANYTHING to do with Facebook, I will not give them a single penny, nor will I do any business with ANY company, EVER, that has anything to do with Bobby Kotich.

      It seems that speaking with your wallets, as MANY people did in the case of the forums, actually works (unless it really was a smoke-screen). They caved to some small degree, I suspect in response to a slew of canceled accounts, so I will continue speaking with my wallet. $300 for 2 games and 4 x-pacs, 4 1/2 years of monthly fees for two accounts...and this is how they reward me for my business? A complete betrayal of trust? On behalf of an entire family of gamers, just let me say one thing...Fuck You.

      Are Jack Thompson and Bobby Kotich somehow related? They both seem to have the shared goal of killing video gaming.

      http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128252
      (Warning! Long load time as the forum posts are all on one page, but well worth the wait if you're interested in understanding the motives/history of Bobby "Fuck 'em all!" Kotich)

    74. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And on top of that, the people in China don't pay the same price as Americans, even when they do pay. Last I heard, they pay something like $2-3 per month. Which makes sense, because the average wage in China is much lower than in the US. I'd guess Blizzard's gross income for WoW is more like $50M a month than $150M.

    75. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      Yes, many of us have gone through adolescent phases where we thought that the definition of human from Dune was cool and should be followed in real life, but it's just that--adolescent.

    76. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      35 = 15

      Math and science education is seriously lacking.

      Yeah! You can't assign to a constant like that!

    77. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The grand parent is wrong. Valve bans you from the forums but doesn't do anything to your games.

    78. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There aren't "some real jerks in WoW". The problem has absolutely nothing to do with WoW. The problem has to do with the anonymity aspect of the Internet in general. Replace WoW with a forum, with Slashdot, with 4chan, with SomethingAwful, with Facebook, with {literally ANYTHING online} and it applies.

      What people should be taking away from this situation: when massive amounts of customers join together for a common cause, Blizzard apparently listens. So why can't this number of people join together to have bugs in Blizzard's games/software addressed? There's shit in their client which has been consistently broken for the past 5 years (some of which are why I stopped playing WoW a couple years ago -- that and the overall gameplay model catering to online addiction).

    79. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Monchanger · · Score: 1

      I'll grant you they're very different environments (at worst we'd get some heated discussions in the religion and politics "zones" I think they were called, but only the most minor name-calling).

      I defer to your experience but I'm still unfamiliar with specifics of your point of view. I would hazard a guess that you're probably familiar with the clientèle in question, but that Blizzard forums and resources are of a much larger scope.

      My problem with your line of argument is that, first it still seems a fool's errand as I've not yet been convinced otherwise and second, that 90% of everything that goes on the various Blizzard forums is too obscene an amount to handle (incidentally the main reason I personally stay away, I can't even bother enough to be bothered by the trolls). I assume problems with scaling moderators linearly with subscribers, for technical&logistical reasons and because it's just bad business to increase your per unit cost. This suggests that at some point you just can't afford read 90%. Scan with algorithms, perhaps manually read every title or the occasional 10-20+ page topic, sure, I'll compromise there. But I can't agree with calls to simply hire in ever increasing numbers as the only answer and superior to seeking a technical solution. Blizzard's suggestion isn't ideal, but neither is the even more low-tech suggestion of hiring high-school grads to be professional forum-readers. I'm not saying stop hiring altogether, just don't go spending crazy amounts of money.

      To me it makes far more sense at an early point (which they've probably long passed by now) to spend invest more towards improving the effectiveness of each moderator. I think that it would be far smarter to focus primarily on the methods used by trolls: alternate characters, duplicate posts across threads. Add to that capabilities such as allowing users to not only downgrade or block but specifically flag various types of unwanted posts (something flagged as profanity, though not necessarily outside of TOS could be hidden/erased for children).

    80. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Sancho · · Score: 1

      You say they want to F their customers... I'm curious to know what your reason is for making that assertion. I mean, they obviously want customers. The backlash and half-hearted backpedaling attests to that, as does the fact that they don't ban people who troll.

    81. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In-game, you develop a reputation. If you're enough of an asshole (lootwhore, n00b, whatever) in-game, folks won't want to play with you. They'll put you on their ignore list. You'll be ostracized.

      FYI, I like the concept of "social" Internet games as much as I like the average Internet chatroom, and face it, that's all an MMO amounts to "socially", a guild being a private channel.

      The whole idea is flawed. These games should be 100% playable, and 100% enjoyable all by your anonymous self. The mix of anonymity and "social" is just plain wrong.

      With that out the way, the public WoW forums are not part of the game. Stop crying. Same general problem, but it's not even part of the game, so fix it, take away anonymity.

      Just automate the fucking loot distribution and don't tell the world what OTHER players got, problem fucking solved, no "n00b lootwhores". These games should be playable anonymously, and they're not.

      "If you're enough of an asshole (n00b, whatever) in-game, folks won't want to play with you."'
      THAT is wrong with "social" MMOs. Complete asshats decide the experience of other players.

      Back in the day, when a "guild" was just some website and an IRC channel, if you joined a guild server and all the guild tags were on the same time.. well, that didn't happen because it's fscking retarded. Today, screw the n00b is built into all MMOs by design. It is wrong.

    82. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      There are some real jerks on the highway, in line at the grocery store, and at your workplace. These are the same people who post GNAA trolls and goatse links.

      The difference is outside of MMO's these people don't work well in teams. MMO's _encourage_ this elitist bullshit.

    83. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've had a ticket open for a week now. Still waiting.

    84. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by D'Sphitz · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with forum moderation and making the community more friendly, it has everything to do with the Facebook cash cow. Even the article accompanying the comic you linked pointed that out, if it wasn't obvious enough.

    85. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't need RealID for that. Plenty of MMO's have "global handles" that allow a player to ignore someone across the board.

    86. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Adding to this, I had to call billing support once, and while I was expecting to be put on hold... they couldn't even manage that. Instead, I got a message saying they where busy and to call again. 49 calls later (sitting there hitting redial over and over), I finally got through, only to be put on hold for ~40 minutes. Blizzard's support is absolutely horrible...

      Oh, and they are actually pulling in way more than 150 million / mo, that's just counting game subscriptions. You have to factor in the number of people that transfer servers per day ($25/ea), name changes ($15/ea), faction changes ($35/ea), game/expansion purchases ($20-$30/ea), and purchasable items such as mounts/mini-pets ($10-$25/ea). This doesn't even begin to count the money they get from the trading card game and from actual game sales. Of course maintenance and salaries aren't cheap, but there is no way it costs anywhere near the amount they pull in.

    87. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by D'Sphitz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Here is a novel thought. If you don't like the service, just stop playing and forking over your money. Wow what a concept."

      This stupid response is barfed all over the WoW forums repeatedly every time someone has any sort of complaint. Ever think that maybe some people enjoy the game, despite objecting to some of Blizzard's decisions?

      If a customer service rep from AT&T is rude to you, do you cancel your service and just live without a phone? Oh, you don't like Comcast? Well cancel your cable and live without internet or TV, what a concept!

    88. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No.

    89. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by NormalVisual · · Score: 2, Informative

      Of course maintenance and salaries aren't cheap, but there is no way it costs anywhere near the amount they pull in.

      As if September 2008, when Blizzard last reported WoW expenditures, it averaged about $4-5 million/month ($200 million spent over 46 months).

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    90. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by ukyoCE · · Score: 1

      You're afforded quite a bit of anonymity when driving and at the grocery store. You're not in the work place, but that's why (the majority of) people are more cautious at work than on the road.

      Note that cautious can mean a lot of things. It can mean not being a jerk to your co-workers. But it can also mean being quiet because you're afraid to speak honestly. It can mean pretending to be someone you're not. It can mean not participating in something you want to.

      The internet lets people be less cautious. That means more trolls, but it also means more honesty, and more freedom. That's one of the prime reasons the internet is so popular. Same with MMOs and other multiplayer videogames.

      Taking away freedom that is currently there leads to protests. People don't want to lose their freedom. People have never had freedom at work, so thats just how things are, and the reason they go home and hop on an anonymous video game in their free time at home.

    91. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by paitre · · Score: 1

      Uh, no. China isn't 70% of the global WoW player-base.
      40%. Maybe.

      Most folks estimate that the US + EU population is somewhere between 5 and 6 million.

    92. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Sure, sure, but my point was Blizzard can no longer claim that it is something they lack.

    93. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by The+Snowman · · Score: 1

      People have the right to be complete assholes as long as they do not harm me.

      The first amendment guarantees that the government will not infringe on anyone's right to be an asshole. Blizzard Entertainment are not the government, they are a private entity and if one chooses to use their paid services, one must abide by their rules or face consequences to which one agrees in the Terms of Service.

      --
      24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    94. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by GarryFre · · Score: 1

      When stupid people back off from a stupid idea they are still stupid.

      --
      www.Migrainesoft.com - Computer giving you a headache? We can fix that!
    95. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by easterberry · · Score: 1

      Well let me start by clearing up the fact that I think RealId is a terrible idea that will solve nothing as a few people seem to have concluded I was for it. I'm not. It won't help.

      What I'm saying is that increased levels of moderation are needed on forums with a large quantity of young people who have to relate with each other for extended periods.

      What I would suspect happens on the blizzard forums is that the mods read the topics names as they come up and watch anything that could get incendiary and then rely on users complaining for anything else (because trust me, users will complain. I had to turn off email notification and I was only a forum of 1000 or so.) Plus they probably have word filter and algorithms as you said that look for key word combinations and send an alert to that board's staff go check it out if the flag gets triggered.

    96. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Monchanger · · Score: 1

      I can't argue with anything there :)

      I've enjoyed our conversation. Thank you.

    97. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by jbezorg · · Score: 1

      Whoa, tough crowd.

      This is what I like about /.

      --
      I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
    98. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I don't know. It's been over a year since I played. Last time I played, you only had room for about 40 people on your ignore list. And it was by character name, not account or anything like that.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    99. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Just so you know, Blizzard already has my real name if they want to sell it. No redundant forum changes necessary. They have my credit card number too!

      Remove the tinfoil hat or at least think about what you're saying instead of just throwing out paranoid gibberish.

      In Europe privacy laws prohibit them from disclosing private information they got as part of a contract to any third party. The US may or may not have a similar law. So no they cannot already sell your details or at least not all their customers details. Opt-in forums would allow them to circumvent that since customers would voluntarily join and agree to the terms that allow this.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    100. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact is that there are many nasty people that troll the internet for kicks.

      (snip)

      B) Blizzards gas crap for moderators.

      What does this even mean? I can't even deduce what you were trying say.

      zomg srsly lrn 2 spl?

      (snip)

      Yet still garbage like this has been up for hours and has not been modded to oblivion. The problem on internet forums isn't moderators, it's human asshats.

      OMFG! He made a single character typo! That clearly refutes his entire point!

      Here's a hint: On the home row, the letter G is next to the letter H. See if you can figure out what the correct phrase is. Oh, I'll just tell you:

      Blizzard has crap for moderators.

      There. Not so hard to understand, huh?

      And yet, your own post has been moderated up for hours and it hasn't been modded into oblivion...

    101. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by lonecrow · · Score: 1

      So Blizzard probably estimated that 90% of those jerks would stop being jerks if their name appeared by their asshole posts.

      I was thinking that it was so they could implement some sort tie-in with facebook.

    102. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the word "reasons" implied legitimate, then you would never have to say, "legitimate reasons." Thought I'd clarify that for the thinking impaired.

    103. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by doomy · · Score: 1
      One of the best reasons as to why Real ID was bad was given by Shmelse ( http://twitter.com/Shmelse ) in response to Blizzard's holy crusader Micah Whipple. As seen here (http://twitter.com/Shmelse/status/18108261999) and quoted verbatim.

      @micahwhipple It's too much to type out on Twitter, so I've made a blog for you, Micah.

      Here's what I see:

      Sue Smith can't post without everyone knowing she's female. Women in the video games world frequently face harassment; this isn't news.

      Timothy Chan and Jose Perez can't post without everyone knowing their ethnicity. It shouldn't come as a shock to you that people of different ethnicities face harassment as well.

      Exotic McUniquename can't post without (1) his posts being tied to his name forever through google searches and (2) everyone who reads his posts and disagrees with him digging up information on him. I think you're familiar with this one?

      John Smith can post anonymously and without fear of harassment. His name doesn't reveal that he's a vulnerable female. His name doesn't reveal that he's a targeted minority. His name doesn't reveal everything about him with one simple search. He is safe.

      John gets to post on your new forums without fear. For Sue and Timothy and Jose and Exotic, well, they can just not post, right? Won't the forums be a much nicer place once all those "different" people are gone?

      I totally agree that this would happen if such a system was to be implemented in an environment like Blizzar'd forums.

      --
      ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    104. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Zironic · · Score: 1

      They could just change the WoW TOS if they wanted to do that, no need to mess with the forum.

    105. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Zironic · · Score: 1

      In what way exactly is Facebook a cash cow? Blizzard has no ability to earn revenue from Facebook, they've been pretty explicit about what their goal is. Their theory is that if they can make their games part of the social network then they'll attract more players through "free" advertising and have those players play more.

    106. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Their estimates were 100% wrong. Assholes will be assholes no matter what.

      This is not true.

      Using their real names would absolutely have a chilling effect on the assholery on the WoW forums. In fact, they might cease to be the cesspit of idiocy that they are right now. For evidence of this, see the ReadID-esque program Amazon rolled out a few years back. When people use their real names on reviews, they tend to well, write them as if their potential bosses were going to read them in the future.

      However, this probably doesn't make up for all the downsides: cyberstalking, invasion of privacy, real life harassment, etc. The Penny Arcade comic is right - there'd undoubtedly be real-life murders over in game douchbaggery, which is not worth cleaning up forums for.

    107. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by RJFerret · · Score: 1

      "Here is a novel thought. If you don't like the service, just stop playing and forking over your money. Wow what a concept."

      This stupid response is barfed all over the WoW forums repeatedly every time someone has any sort of complaint. Ever think that maybe some people enjoy the game, despite objecting to some of Blizzard's decisions?

      If a customer service rep from AT&T is rude to you, do you cancel your service and just live without a phone? Oh, you don't like Comcast? Well cancel your cable and live without internet or TV, what a concept!

      Actually, yes. There are several companies I will never do business with, and whom have competitors I endorse whenever I get the opportunity.

      I know your post got modded up and labeled "insightful", but it's quite the opposite imo...

      To borrow your example, I HAVE cancelled cable and use the library and Hulu to partially fill the gap, there was no useful competitor available to me. Obviously such extreme measures aren't warranted from one rude service rep., in fact I wouldn't even complain to a manager over silliness like that, but I DO specifically request a manager when reps go above and beyond the call of duty, and have repeatedly earned people "employee of the month" status.

      Putting your money where your mouth is, IS valuable.

      So I'd suggest it's not a stupid response to suggest people do that. Especially since often that recourse is offered to individuals whose complaints are misdirected, complaining in a public forum of the company often does little to promote change, it's more for commiseration. Usually that suggestion is provided to those who are complaining for the sake of complaining, rather than their contributing to the discussion, or seeking to improve the situation, more simply to ease their pain.

      The company losing revenue due to customers deserting certainly does promote change. The company seeing competitors' usage increasing does. The company receiving bad PR on Twitter, while their competition receives good PR does (although admittedly, all press is good press, which is why I don't even mention the names of companies I refuse to work with).

      That being said, the decision shouldn't be trite, and you have to weigh your ethics, the increased cost of not doing business with that company, or altering that service. Everybody, including companies, make mistakes, one or two is bearable, but I recently moved all my insurance policies to a new agency, because the old one dropped the ball for the third time in twelve years.

      Sometimes the grass IS greener, and instead of complaining about things, moving on can help you discover wonderful alternatives. In my case, not only better service, but cost savings as well.

    108. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and if the people playing joe and ed are not the same person? maybe siblings or something?

    109. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by neonKow · · Score: 1

      If I were to be an asshole, it's not anonymity that protects me; it's the fact that there will be no retribution. Anonymity obviously helps with that, but non-assholes aren't the ones that are going to abuse people's real names. You know who DOES have the power to enforce the rules (without breaking the law by tracking down people based on their real names)? Blizzard!

    110. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by shnull · · Score: 1

      maybe they realized there's lots of forums about wow that dont have that policy so their implementation would only push everyone away from the official ones

      --
      beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)
    111. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ask the girl that committed suicide after being harassed online.

      I do think you can harm someone online.

      That girl that was already deeply depressed, but was still allowed on social networking sites meant to depress you.

    112. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or create a character specifically for the purpose of being an asshole. You can log in as "Joe the Night Elf" and be a nice guy and go on all the raids... And then you can log in as "Ed the Dwarf" and be a complete asshole... And nobody knows it's the same person. Ed's bad reputation does not affect Joe at all.

      And why should it, as long as Joe the Night Elf is himself a nice guy?

      I mean... imagine that Joe the Night Elf has just this one WOW character, but when he goes out to drink on Saturday nights, he's a bit of a hothead and regularly starts arguments with other patrons, harassing them and ultimately getting thrown out of and banned from quite a few bars.

      Do people who play with Joe-the-Night-Elf-who's-a-nice-guy in WOW have a right to know this? Do they NEED to know this?

      I'd say no. What Joe the Night Elf does when he's not playing Joe the Night Elf shouldn't affect his night elf character.

    113. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by shentino · · Score: 1

      How much trolling do they get as a percentage of overall forum activity, versus other forums?

      If they're really a magnet for assholes then I suggest it's due to one of two reasons:

      1) The personality inherent to being in a MMORPG brings out competitiveness and through it a tendency to act up versus other people.
      2) Insufficient or defective moderation policies that don't do enough to deter misbehavior.

    114. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by shentino · · Score: 1

      Another reason you don't protest is that if you escalate the manager will probably kick you out.

      They know that at "peacetime" they can get away with being a jerk, knowing that they can push it right up to the point where anyone who retaliates will trip the war alarm and summon security.

    115. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You don't know the jerk who cuts in line at the store or takes up three parking spaces in the lot from adam; they're anonymous. There is no protest because it would be a futile gesture.

      Actually, I have often walked up to the jerk at the store and given them a hard time. On occasion I have even got them to leave line. This is probably mostly because I'm two meters and some twenty stone; I try to use this power only for good.

      Further, the guy who takes up three parking spaces in the lot regularly gets his car keyed. That's a minimum $500 repair. And when hardly anyone has a deductable less than $250 it will get their attention. I sometimes take up multiple spaces in a lot, but only in my F250 and even then only when the spaces are too fucking small. A lot of places in this country have tiny parking spaces because it's mandated that they have a certain number of them. The worst I've seen this was in Austin, TX. For example at Trudy's North Star restaurant, the spaces were cramped for my Nissan Z31, which is not a particularly wide car. If I were to park my pickup there (which is unlikely since I doubt I'll drive it to Texas, but anyway) I would NEED two spaces. Haven't got keyed yet, but I make an effort to park in a far portion of the lot when I need to double-park.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    116. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Monchanger · · Score: 1

      1) Sounds plausible. Plus I think that generally speaking MMOs attract plenty of children and other people with nothing better to do.
      2) First we'd have to think about what "enough" and "misbehavior" mean. It's a tricky thing, telling your own customers how to behave and having to punish them for breaking rules you set up unilaterally through a Terms of Service. This isn't a free forum we're talking about, it's a very large and quite public space where the moderators cannot afford to antagonize posters unless absolutely necessary. It's also not simple to define boundaries of acceptable behavior. While Blizzard isn't legally restricted by the first amendment, the same issues are still relevant. American customers would not likely appreciate overly broad enforcement.

    117. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by mobets · · Score: 1

      Maybe not if one rep is rude, but yes I would definitely leave a service provider if I am met with a rude response from most reps. Don't like Comcast? Switch to Satellite and DSL.

      --

      It was me, I did it, I moved your cheese
    118. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're pulling in roughly $150 million *per month* from the damn game, and they're still trying to reduce the level of service even further.

      Welcome to the American Dream!

    119. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why I switched to LOTRO. It'll be Free-to-Play in a few months, if you want to try it.

    120. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by MisterZimbu · · Score: 1

      The point was more along the lines that it's pointless to associate a post with a user's real name for datamining purposes on the forums - Blizzard ALREADY HAS that information and can already link your post to your real name.

    121. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you feel a company making well over (go read the SEC earning statements (I'm not going to link them here because frankly I don't care.)) ~200M profit (not income) per quarter (this is actually probably closer to 250M) shouldn't b othe to spend anymore on that one game?
      That quarterly profit is more profit than all the other games and products the company offers combined. (see 2010 Q1 report)

      They owe a lot to WOW, and frankly are milking the fuck out of it, would it kill them to spend an extra 20M a quarter..it would still leave the WOW profits as more than 50% of the entire company. LOL

    122. Re:Pretty Obvious Reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They want the battlenet servers to become 'the next facebook'.

  2. Facebook slippery slope by SquarePixel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    we've decided at this time that real names will not be required

    It only means that Facebook brainwashing has not fully worked yet. Expect them to try this again in an year, along with many other websites, when people have got more used to it ("well these other websites already do the same so what's the big deal")

    1. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they still haven't said how your information will be sold to massive, or how there will be any preventing of information leak through their 'friend of friend' system

    2. Re:Facebook slippery slope by AdmiralXyz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are you familiar with the saying, "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity"? If you read their post announcing the turn-around, they say very clearly, "We did this because we thought it would improve the quality of the forums, and having heard your reaction, we're not going to do it." They thought they were acting in the best of their customers. Yeah, it was an appallingly stupid idea, but one with good intentions.

      You can call me naive if you want, but ask yourself: what the hell does Blizzard gain from you posting your real name on their forums? They already know it from your subscription info, it's not like you're giving them new data. It makes no difference to them whatsoever. That's the problem with conspiracy theories: people come up with them before realizing that the conspiracy would not provide any benefit to the alleged conspirators if true

      This was just a lousy call by well-meaning individuals, and the fact that they did such a complete turnarond is a positive sign that Blizzard does care about their customers.

      --
      Dislike the Electoral College? Lobby your state to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
    3. Re:Facebook slippery slope by stanlyb · · Score: 1

      Not true, you could give some false subscription info, or even the one of your mommy.

    4. Re:Facebook slippery slope by MistrBlank · · Score: 1

      What kills me is... YOU DONT HAVE TO USE THE FORUMS. The problem is that it's become popularly known to stay away from the Blizz based forums because they're just filled with Trolls and little to nothing of value. I think Blizzard wants to fix that and to be honest forcing people to expose themselves is the best way to do it.

      As for "exposing children" and women's names. GET OVER IT AND DONT USE THE FORUMS and DONT LET YOUR CHILDREN USE THEM. How many times does that simple little fact need to be expressed and why are you even letting your child onto the Internet unsupervised in the first place?

      It's like all of you people seem to think once you're on the Internet you're forced to use all of these services that are out there and fortunately it is that way so I'm not forced to create a Facebook or Paypal account.

      I'm really getting tired of this parenting for other people (and at this point I mean parenting for other adults too) attitude that this world has taken on. Grow up and grow some responsibility for your own actions and those of your offspring.

    5. Re:Facebook slippery slope by JSombra · · Score: 0

      "If you read their post announcing the turn-around, they say very clearly, "We did this because we thought it would improve the quality of the forums, and having heard your reaction, we're not going to do it." "

      No that's not what it says

      "As a result of those discussions, we've decided at this time that real names will not be required for posting on official Blizzard forums.'"

      Key bit is "at this time"

      Translation: "You, the customers, are obviously not ready for this, we still want it and will be doing our best to implement it (that Facebook deal is important to us after all), just it's now obvious we will have to be more sneaky about it"

      Outing of the Blizzard gamers is coming, if you don't believe that you are fool. Just from now on it will be a more gradual change

    6. Re:Facebook slippery slope by JSombra · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "You can call me naive if you want, but ask yourself: what the hell does Blizzard gain from you posting your real name on their forums? They already know it from your subscription info, it's not like you're giving them new data. It makes no difference to them whatsoever. That's the problem with conspiracy theories: people come up with them before realizing that the conspiracy would not provide any benefit to the alleged conspirators if true"

      Naive if you know about the facebook integretion deal and believe that, just uninformed if you don't know about

      Activision want to create THE social gaming network. Cannot do that if everyone is publiclly hidden behind alias. That is what the whole Real ID thing is about

    7. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Dragoness+Eclectic · · Score: 1

      I'm tired of idiots who spout their party-line without bothering to fact check. According to many, many WoW posters in the big thread O' doom, posting to forums is necessary for decent technical support. In-game issues are frequently referred to the support FORUM (not call-in support) by GMs, and it is well known that issues are frequently resolved an order of magnitude faster via forum than via call-in tech support or website trouble ticket.

      Second, why should women be second-class citizens who must avoid communicating with other players out of fear? It's pretty well known that in communities dominated by insecure young men, a women is best off going by a neutral or male pseudonym if she wants her ideas heard, and to avoid pointless abuse. This is not new, nor is it news. It's unfortunate, it sucks, but unfortunately that's the way it is until parents get back to the job of civilizing their testostorone-laden young fucktards who are easily frightened by sentient beings with breasts.

      The only "parenting for other people" I see in this incident belongs to Blizzard, who seems to think that gamers shouldn't be allowed to choose the face they present to the world. Enough screaming and cancellations and they got the hint. (Yes, it wasn't just forum posts; people were cancelling subscriptions and game pre-orders en masse).

      --
      ---dragoness
    8. Re:Facebook slippery slope by flibuste · · Score: 1

      No offence, but I would call you naive.....I see Blizzard attempt as a move to cut down on forum management. All those thousands of useless posts that need to maybe reviewed, maybe answered, etc. is probably taking up a LOT of resources in various countries. Reducing the workload to practically nothing since only maybe 1% of forum goers would ever post anything, would generate, guess what, more PROFIT.
      For the 90% of players who legitimately ask questions or help on the forum, there is no reason why they would want to give up their real names. The only result of that is empty forums, less gamer-to-gamer help.
      Oh, and with the above logic, one would also expect a huge increase in mails to Blizzard support for those questions that would have been asked in the forums. This could well end up being more expensive to Blizzard than paying moderators.
      Sorry, I love Blizzard games, but to me this wasn't done in the interest of players, and really smell like cutting on costs at our expense. I'm glad though that they reversed their decision, there is definitely a lot of funny posts that would not have been written with that policy. Anyone remembering the "In PVP, shadow priests melt faces" thread knows what I am talking about.

    9. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Monchanger · · Score: 1

      And yeah, posted under my /. RealID

      ... and by doing that you proved Blizzard's point on killing anonymity. Now people who don't care for your language can set you as "foe" so they'll never see your posts again.

    10. Re:Facebook slippery slope by stonewallred · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Get to setting faggot. I really doubt you or anyone else not reading my comments will in anyway effect my life, well-being or sense of satisfaction.

    11. Re:Facebook slippery slope by stonewallred · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      See there is a Blizz fanboi with mod points running amok on /. Guess they need something to clean all the RealID cum they swallowed out of their system.

    12. Re:Facebook slippery slope by izomiac · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think Facebook has had a bit of a positive effect. A frog won't hop out of a pot if the temperature is gradually increased. Facebook has been a little too eager in eroding privacy, so now people think about it. I'm rather impressed that, nowadays, most people are carefully tweaking their privacy settings! People aren't just using the defaults... I never thought I'd see the day that people cared how things worked rather than just getting what they want with as little effort as possible.

    13. Re:Facebook slippery slope by babywhiz · · Score: 1

      Actually, this was quite the wake up call for me. I spent yesterday scrubbing my facebook page (kept it cause that dang farmville...), deleted my twitter account, and got rid of my blogger page. I realize there is always history/cache out there, but anything in the future will just be my 'gamer' persona.

    14. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Monchanger · · Score: 1

      Affect is the verb and effect is the noun, kid. Nobody actually cares about your pitiful lives and base satisfactions. I just want tools to hide you deformed freaks from sight.

    15. Re:Facebook slippery slope by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      According to many, many WoW posters in the big thread O' doom, posting to forums is necessary for decent technical support. In-game issues are frequently referred to the support FORUM (not call-in support) by GMs, and it is well known that issues are frequently resolved an order of magnitude faster via forum than via call-in tech support or website trouble ticket.

      As someone who actually does play the game, this isn't true on its face for a number of reasons:

      1) The forums are next to worthless for support.

      2) WoW is a run-of-the-mill DirectX game. Chances are if you delete all your files and start fresh your problem goes away. Which, consequently is what they tell you on the forums anyway. If you're having a DirectX problem, then you need help with your PC, which Blizzard can't provide anyway.

      3) Those few answers to problems that are found on the forums are from other PLAYERS, who could easily use another forum if they didn't like the RealID feature. Again, the actual company does nearly nothing in terms of tech support for this game.

      Second, why should women be second-class citizens who must avoid communicating with other players out of fear?

      For the same reason women typically make less pay for the same job as men. It's the women around you. Get them to stop using sex as a means of power and the slobbering will diminish. Meanwhile, stop being afraid of who you are and rebuff these teens, publicly if necessary. Genuinely, this seems like an isolated issue to me. My guild includes several females including my wife and even my mother, and none have ever experienced what you're describing here.

      The only "parenting for other people" I see in this incident belongs to Blizzard, who seems to think that gamers shouldn't be allowed to choose the face they present to the world

      And in this case, Blizzard and I actually agree. You can't choose it in real life, so why must Blizzard provide it on their forum?

    16. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they still only care about money. It's just that this decision doesn't affect their bottom line.

    17. Re:Facebook slippery slope by jayveekay · · Score: 1

      You invest your time and money in an MMO. We are typically talking about multi-year commtments of time invested in character development and friendship making. The company that operates the MMO has a complete stranglehold on your access to the game. Read the WoW Terms of Use clause that states "We may terminate your account at any time, with or without cause".

      You would like to believe that the MMO in which you make such a huge investment is not run by retards who will, one day, make some colossal mistake that will sever you from the game. The last 2 days are evidence that there are retards at Blizzard who could actually do so. This has not been a confidence builder.

    18. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is if this seems a reasonable use of my private information, what else have they done or will do? Have they planned for in-game advertising? Will they integrate with facebook so your contacts can chat with you while you are gaming?

      The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    19. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's like all of you people seem to think once you're on the Internet you're forced to use all of these services that are out there

      Nobody thinks that, and it doesn't seem to you that they do at all. You're just inventing that position out of thin air and using it as a strawman so that you don't have to think about the issue. In short, you're a liar.

    20. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My guild includes several females including my wife and even my mother ...

      **sad trombone**

    21. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Xelios · · Score: 1

      And as a sweet bonus Blizzard gets to save some money on forum moderators. It's much more cost effective to let people police themselves if you give them the power to.

      But no, it was a stupid idea and even though I don't play WoW I'm glad it didn't make it through. Hopefully this serves as a warning to other companies that people are still concerned about their privacy. At the end of the day privacy is nothing more than having a choice, you choose what personal information you want to make public and where. This idea took that choice away, and obviously that crossed a line with people. If Blizzard really is serious about improving order on the forums, then I'd suggest they take some of the ridiculous sums of money WoW pumps out for them and hire some more moderators.

      --
      Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
    22. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure. I have a FB account, but I check it once every 2-3 weeks or more. How many WoW players also fully and actively use FB? (probably a lot and my argument is not that good.)

    23. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, it was an appallingly stupid idea, but one with good intentions.

      One time I tried to pave a road with those. You'll never believe where I ended up when I was done.

    24. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody working for a company THAT large gets a well-meaning idea to market. Everything is weighed as a cost. There was money behind the decision and now money behind the retraction.

      Think of it from Blizzard's perspective. They have a HUGE audience across their three franchises, and audience who interacts socially in game and out (perhaps mostly in game though). Social network = demographic goldmine. If they could network those franchises' social interactions (i.e. Battle.net) they'd be able to tap the crap out of that vein. They wanted tighter integration with Facebook (and I imagine they would make a forum app which would allow people to treat forum threads like wall posts). The whole RealID fiasco hasn't gone away, they're still convinced that your demographic data is theirs for the taking. What they're rethinking is merely their rollout strategy. Someone there is surely smart enough to find a way to make you WANT to give in and merge your entire online existence into a single, quantifiable blob of demographic data. The best part is, this will allow them to justify any free-to-play model they might toy with for their retiring franchises.

      Trust me, the well-meaning individuals don't have the VPs' ears. They're the ones doing QA for free (actually, they're paying a monthly fee) Beta testing and providing feedback and arguing with trolls on the forums.

    25. Re:Facebook slippery slope by babywhiz · · Score: 1

      Quite a few do....what else do you do between pulls, or while waiting in the dungeon Q.....(as dps)...or while listening to a 30 min explanation of the strat for the boss...or while on the 10 min, midraid break....or on that 15 min flight across Kalimador.....

    26. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Including your physical location within your status update.

    27. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to be pretty dumb to believe that the purpose of this was to clean up the forums. That's a side effect and an excuse to justify another step in their social network/facebook integration. You want to know what Blizzard gains? They gain out-of-touch corporate executives seeing their poorly thought out pet project come into reality. The Activision and Vivendi executives don't use the forums, don't play games, and don't understand the situation. They do understand that facebook is a big deal, and they decided they wanted a piece of that at our expense.

    28. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Holammer · · Score: 1

      Think about it for a second... Pointy haired bosses want you to implement a stupid feature nobody will want. What do you do as a developer? Nothing, pointy haired boss owns the company, you're just a faceless peon that can be replaced in a heartbeat. I have a nagging suspicion that actual blizzard employees kicked back and looked forward to the official blue post and the inevitable shit storm that followed. I don't think it's malice in any form, just a bunch of folks that only understand how to turn a profit. Oh, and expecting a Hobson's choice that infringes on privacy to be met with approval from your customers is at best naive and criminally stupid.

    29. Re:Facebook slippery slope by ukyoCE · · Score: 1

      The Facebook brainwashing worked on Activision apparently, but it still hasn't worked on users.

      Facebook is popular because it's PRIVATE, FRIENDS-ONLY. Most people refuse to share their private, personal information on the public internet. Facebook is only popular because of the privacy that marking everything friends-only affords.

      Every time Facebook tries to (inexplicably) force users' private information to be public, there is a huge backlash and Facebook has to retreat.

      Somehow, whatever motivation (greed?) leads Facebook to try to destroy their users' privacy leaked into Activision/Blizzard and made them attempt to do the same.

      No surprise, there was the exact same backlash from users that Facebook gets every time they try this bullshit.

    30. Re:Facebook slippery slope by murdocj · · Score: 1

      You invest your time and money in an MMO. We are typically talking about multi-year commtments of time...

      Commitment is adopting a pet. Commitment is getting married. Commitment is joining the army. Playing an online video is playing an online video game. You're not "committing" to anything, you're not "investing" in anything. You're having fun. It's not like you're going to get a pension when you decide to move on from an MMO and do something else.

      You would like to believe that the MMO in which you make such a huge investment is not run by retards who will, one day, make some colossal mistake that will sever you from the game.

      You mean, a colossal mistake like ban you for hacking or some other naughtiness? Yup, they can do that. In fact, I guarantee you that at some point, that last WoW server will be turned off. Get used to the idea.

    31. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Actually, there have been some very nasty "rumors" that while folks in blizzard still get to decide how gameplay in the game actually works, the general maintenance is gone over under the command of activision drones. These are the people who do not understand how blizzard's community works, they are the ones used to short time communities centered around single game, that come to exist in a matter of weeks and usually die some time after game release.

      As a result, these folks look at success of Zynga, and think "we have a very popular mmo, what if we actually put them onto facebook? We'd make billions!". What they don't realise is that wow and starcraft community is an old and well established one, and making sweeping changes will actually get a very focused and harsh response. If you rememer some time back, when MW2 was coming out, activision decided to pull dedicated servers from the game. Community was against, but community for that game was far less organised, and game still sold tons in spite of resistance to the lack of dedicated servers.

      With blizzard's community, this just doesn't work. When a feature that everyone feels necessary is being removed, people will rally very fast - as the entire way both WoW and starcraft are structured is to reward those who set up and operate within powerful communities (i.e. guilds in WoW). As a result, these people tend to be used to far greater level of discipline when it comes to pursuing common goals then, say, MW fans.

      Personally, I suspect that most folks at blizzard understood this, but they simply had no say in administrative issue like this one. The way they handled it seems to imply this too - the ONLY moderation on the topic they did was to force everyone to post into a single thread. This is what I would do if I wanted to convince my boss who has background in marketing why sweeping change is a bad idea: "we have solid evidence that x posters feel very much against this feature - just go and look for yourself [link]". The marketing exec takes a look at the thread, reads a few comments, gets freaked out by the sheer volume of posts (which blizzard mods make sure comes into that single thread and is easy to count) and decides it might be a good idea to back the hell off - as he might actually have to shoulder possible loss of revenue placed on himself. Nothing scares marketers more then large volume of negative feedback over short time on new upcoming (still in cancelable stage) features.

      Take this with the obvious "rumors" grain of salt, but it still strikes one as fitting the direction blizzard took after activision merger (from massive cooldown reduction on transfers, opening transfers between PvE and PvP realms, removal of "free days" for server downtime, That Retarded Horse, and many others.

    32. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rule #12: One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation. -- http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

    33. Re:Facebook slippery slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They partnered with Facebook. They planned to link your WoW posts to your Facebook profiles and collect a boatload of cash from sharing all their user-generated data with third parties. It was a veritable gold mine for Blizzard to do this.

      The fact that you seemingly know nothing about the situation, or Blizzard, or corporate America itself doesn't make people who saw right through this scheme conspiracy nutbars; it simply makes you ignorant.

    34. Re:Facebook slippery slope by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Are you familiar with the saying, "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity"? If you read their post announcing the turn-around, they say very clearly, "We did this because we thought it would improve the quality of the forums, and having heard your reaction, we're not going to do it." They thought they were acting in the best of their customers. Yeah, it was an appallingly stupid idea, but one with good intentions.

      It's not clear what benefit it would have to customers to be forced to use their real name.

      You can call me naive if you want,

      Okay, you're naive.

      but ask yourself: what the hell does Blizzard gain from you posting your real name on their forums?

      The ToS permits them to share forum info with their partners, that means your real name. The privacy part of the ToS could be interpreted as not giving them that right otherwise.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  3. It all comes down to $ by butterflysrage · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't think that this had anything to do with privacy, or "feedback", it was simply that when the accounting department saw just how many hits they were going to lose and the kneecapping their advertising income was about to take, the called the higer ups and put a dollar figure to this kind of bone-head move and it was called off.

    --
    the preceding post was not spell checked... suck it.
    1. Re:It all comes down to $ by Burnhard · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But even so, isn't it rumpsmackingly amazing that the suits aren't capable of anticipating obvious objections from the community about this. I would love to have been a fly on the wall (holding a bullshit bingo card, obviously) in the meeting where it was decided that doing this was a good idea in the first place.

    2. Re:It all comes down to $ by refrigeratorpanic · · Score: 1

      because you never make mistakes, right? it's easy to call things obvious in hindsight -- after you already know the number of people that objected to the change, but hey, everyone does it and it makes you look smarter. go you!

    3. Re:It all comes down to $ by Tridus · · Score: 1

      Capitalism in action. Company wants to do something. Customers protest not by complaining on the forum (though they did), but by cancelling subscriptions. Company adds up lost revenue and decides that this is not good for the business after all. Customers get what they want.

      Hell, this is EXACTLY how a market economy is supposed to work! Kudos to the people who backed up their complaints by cancelling.

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    4. Re:It all comes down to $ by Burnhard · · Score: 1

      because you never make mistakes, right?

      Au contraire, mon frère!

    5. Re:It all comes down to $ by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      because you never make mistakes, right?

      There's a difference between making a mistake and doing something that anyone with more than a room temperature IQ should immediatley understand to be an insanely stupid idea.

      And I'm talking room temperature in Celcius, not Kelvin.

    6. Re:It all comes down to $ by butterflysrage · · Score: 1

      I'm not privy to Bliz's finical statements... but I would bet my hat that the handful of cancellations wouldn't add up to anywhere near the millions on millions of advertising hits they get per day.

      --
      the preceding post was not spell checked... suck it.
    7. Re:It all comes down to $ by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Insightful
      In other words, they are normal human beings. I always laugh at people that do this kind of argument. It's cynical, rather short sighted, totally lacking in understanding of morality and rules. Ethics are not there just to be there, they are there because they make business sense. Yes - it does in fact make business sense to respect privacy, that is one of the reasons why we value it.

      Look, everyone wants money. That is NOT a bad thing. The fact that they had to do the math and realizing X is bad as opposed to blindly accepting the fact that X is bad with evidence does NOT mean they are evil or bone headed or stupid. Instead it means.

      1. The management of a for-profit company is not composed of moral philosophers that care more about their beliefs than about making money.

      2. The management of a for-profit company is smart enough to consider solutions to things that annoy their customers.

      3. The management was not smart enough to realize their propoosed solution was worse all by themselves.

      4. The management WAS smart enough to learn from their mistake before they actually enacted it.

      You seem to be surpirsed, nay SHOCKED I say, SHOCKED to learn these first three obvious facts and are totally discounting #4.

      Me, maybe I'm cynical, but in my experience, the first three are common and the only surprusing thing is #4, which you seem to think is a horrible thing. I am gladdened to discover that Blizzard appears to be FAR more ethical and intelligent than many other companies, such as Facebook.

      I would trust Blizzard far more than I would trust some one that thinks profit is a dirty word.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    8. Re:It all comes down to $ by Snarkalicious · · Score: 1

      The bean counters were just translators on this one. The execs just needed the consumer's message spoken in their own language.

    9. Re:It all comes down to $ by Paspanique · · Score: 1

      I agree, this is the only language companies like Activision understand, the rest all come in behind it. They don't give a hoot about you being bullied, but if that means you won't pay them, they have a problem with it. But, now they realize the will loose more by doing this, so they'll have to find a better way.

      --
      I don't have an intelligent phone, so I need to be.
    10. Re:It all comes down to $ by Tridus · · Score: 1

      The phone lines to cancel were jammed solid since this started, 3 days ago. The account server has been going up and down from load.

      We're not talking about a "handful" of cancellations from a few disgruntled folks. This was a big deal and turned into real money.

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    11. Re:It all comes down to $ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      All they have to do to make up lost subscription is sell a few more new celestial steeds ^_~

    12. Re:It all comes down to $ by butterflysrage · · Score: 1

      quite the contrary, I'm very glad they changed their minds and learned from it... I simply think that those who are singing their praises wrt respecting privacy are naive. This was a monetary decision and nothing more, it should not be praised as if they "saw the light", they would/will reverse this decision in a heartbeat if they can find a way to make it profitable. Such is life.

      --
      the preceding post was not spell checked... suck it.
    13. Re:It all comes down to $ by butterflysrage · · Score: 1

      wow, I was not aware... thanks for the info :)

      --
      the preceding post was not spell checked... suck it.
    14. Re:It all comes down to $ by stonewallred · · Score: 1

      What hits? The majority of the regulars on the forums, who drive the most numbers, use ABP and noscript anyway, just as safety precautions due to many sites jacking browsers with ad loaded BS. Plus, the fucking idea of ads on a forum that you pay for using your subscription is retarded and insulting. The ads are just another way for Blizz to milk the cow for the cash. This is not the Blizz forum, this is /. where the idea of running servers for 11 million users, with 6-12 hours downtime once a week, with a 150 million dollar a month budget, which should be enough to make you cream yourself. Fuck, 11 million users and they have 6-12 hours downtime a week, not to mention hot fixes and patches, and their bosses don't say a thing. Need me a job working on their servers.

    15. Re:It all comes down to $ by stanlyb · · Score: 1

      I also want a lot of money, but i am willing to kill anybody, or harass him, or blackmail him, or whatever immoral idea you could have. Maybe for some good cause, but not for some mere money....i need my sleep, unlike some other guys.

    16. Re:It all comes down to $ by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Which means in this instance it was feedback about privacy that drove their business decision.

      Tomorrow it will be profit margins from merchandising tie-ins.

    17. Re:It all comes down to $ by blair1q · · Score: 1

      MBAs don't have foresight.

      They throw ideas against the wall and see what makes a profit.

      If they drive the company out of business in the process, well, they can't be sued by shareholders for being incompetent at judging risk. That's what "limited liability" means. That's what they learned in B-school. Not how to make smart decisions, but how to count the money coming in from decisions that worked.

    18. Re:It all comes down to $ by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      In addition to getting reporting on this outside the regular gaming and tech media, but on the front page of BBC.com for $DEITY's sake.

      This inflated to something they couldn't possibly control, so they ejected before crashing into the mountain.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    19. Re:It all comes down to $ by flibuste · · Score: 1

      it is still baffling to me how such experienced people as Blizzard designers would actually make such a grossly obvious "mistake". There is probably more behind this decision.

    20. Re:It all comes down to $ by Monchanger · · Score: 1

      Just because you don't like the idea doesn't mean I don't, your highness.

      I'm sorry nobody told you this yet: you're not the smartest guy in the room.

    21. Re:It all comes down to $ by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Ethics are not there just to be there, they are there because they make business sense

      I think you have your causation reversed. Ethics don't exist because they make business sense. They exist because they're the right thing to do. Sometimes ethics make business sense, but only when people see that you're not doing the right thing. By and large it makes very good business sense to ignore ethics entirely, and apologize when you're caught.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    22. Re:It all comes down to $ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I am gladdened to discover that Blizzard appears to be FAR more ethical and intelligent than many other companies, such as Facebook."

      If you sincerely believe that's true, when Blizzard is furiously at work integrating and emulating Facebook, I have some swampland in Florida to sell you.

    23. Re:It all comes down to $ by Tridus · · Score: 1

      :)

      I understand why you'd think there was only a handful. People threaten to cancel over things all the time. Blizzard's cancellation page actually has an option for "quitting due to the Forsaken nerf" FFS. :P

      In this case people actually did quit. The people spoke with their wallets, and that's a language corporate execs understand.

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    24. Re:It all comes down to $ by geekoid · · Score: 1

      ", it was simply that when the accounting department saw just how many hits they were going to lose and the kneecapping their advertising income was about to take"

      and how do you think they figured that out? oh yeah, because of the FEEDBACK, dipshit.

      I would argue they realizes why this was stupid, and the amount of liability they would be taking on.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    25. Re:It all comes down to $ by Lythrdskynrd · · Score: 1

      because you never make mistakes, right?

      There's a difference between making a mistake and doing something that anyone with more than a room temperature IQ should immediatley understand to be an insanely stupid idea.

      And I'm talking room temperature in Celcius, not Kelvin.

      I thought it was a great idea. Though it's apparently controversial.

      There was a great article in "What the Dog Saw" about Ketchup. In it, he describes the fact that there's basically only one ketchup. That's because it's a perfect flavour. Anyone who tries anything else might say "yeah that's good... but it's not ketchup".

      Mustard on the other hand, has many flavours, whole grian, dijon, french's ... and so on. That's because a certain portion of the population likes the texture of the grain, or the heat of the dijon. In fact they prefer that choice over the other possible choices. There's room for more than one mustard.

      Similarly, there's room for more than one answer to the question of "Should Blizzard Forums Use Real Names"

    26. Re:It all comes down to $ by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      It is baffling to you, because you are in a different environment.

      It is baffling to me how during the American Revolutionary War, the soldiers would all stand in a line and let the opposing side take a shot at them. When watching the History Channel, I always yell, "Get DOWN you dumb fucks!! DUCK!!!". They never listen to me, BTW. And four or five always get taken out by a musket ball. (Dammit, if they had just DUCKED!!) The truth is, they were operating with different technology and with a different cultural ethos.

      Same here. The Blizzard management has probably been inundated with requests to do something about the trolling. They read the studies that say that anonymity increases trolling activity. "Well, WTF, if you've got nothing to hide, you don't care who knows your name (or what you keep in your top left dresser drawer)."

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    27. Re:It all comes down to $ by QuantumBeep · · Score: 1

      "I have some swampland in Florida to sell you." That type of expression is usually applied to things that don't exist, like oceanfront property in Colorado. There's lots of swampland in Florida.

    28. Re:It all comes down to $ by ukyoCE · · Score: 1

      Individuals make mistakes. For groups to make mistakes, especially a group as big as Blizzard, requires monumental stupidity. Either Activision put their foot down and said "you're going to do this", or the higher-ups at Blizzard completely ignored the majority of the company who said this was a terrible idea.

      Corporations making mistakes is nothing at all like individuals making mistakes.

    29. Re:It all comes down to $ by Cl1mh4224rd · · Score: 1

      it's easy to call things obvious in hindsight

      True enough, but this exposes a rather significant (in my opinion) disconnect between the community and whoever came up with and approved this idea. The decision-makers don't understand their community.

      If they don't correct that problem of theirs, they will have many more public relations snafus like this.

      --
      People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
    30. Re:It all comes down to $ by flowwolf · · Score: 1

      I doubt that was it. Blizzard is in no shortage of hits and banner ad's are not a major source of income for them. Time and time again I see this call to boycott sounding. It's always a minor effort. L4D2 is the most recent example I can think of.
      It's a band wagon

    31. Re:It all comes down to $ by flowwolf · · Score: 1

      I imagine the community team protesting as best as they could before this went through. Then after explaining the possible situation to the suits (that ended up happening), and the suits saying "thats only a possibility. lets see what happens".. there was an epic sigh and a solemn "okay, lets do it and see what happens then"
      Tonight the community team is getting drunk and celebrating an epic win. This is at least what I hope happened.

    32. Re:It all comes down to $ by mqduck · · Score: 1

      Ethics are not there just to be there, they are there because they make business sense.

      That's called business. Please don't confuse it with ethics.

      --
      Property is theft.
    33. Re:It all comes down to $ by murdocj · · Score: 1

      People threaten to cancel all the time. Remember the "Left for Dead 2" boycott? People get up in arms over the craziest things. I'm sure WoW didn't lose even 0.01% of its subscriber base over this.

    34. Re:It all comes down to $ by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Most ketchup is a fucking disgusting sugar soup flavored with rotten tomatoes. I have to buy the kind without more sugar than plant matter or it makes me want to hork. Analogyfail.

      Similarly, there's room for more than one answer to the question of "Should Blizzard Forums Use Real Names"

      No, there isn't. There is only one answer, and it is "no". And that answer is the only correct one for one simple reason, Blizzard was losing customers over the announcement. If the customers will stop using your product over a decision, you made the wrong decision. Nobody was going to START using WoW because they went to real names on fora. NOBODY. Therefore, it was stupid.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    35. Re:It all comes down to $ by Lythrdskynrd · · Score: 1

      No, there isn't. There is only one answer, and it is "no". And that answer is the only correct one for one simple reason, Blizzard was losing customers over the announcement. If the customers will stop using your product over a decision, you made the wrong decision. Nobody was going to START using WoW because they went to real names on fora. NOBODY. Therefore, it was stupid.

      You're drawing conclusions without any data.

      There were definitely people complaining on the forum, but you have no proof of people actually quitting the game (in significant numbers).

      I would contest that people don't play WOW primarily for the forum interactions. People complaining might have simply stopped posting on forums and continued to play the game. Maybe they'd look for third party (guild) forums where they could still remain anonymous.

      You can't say that it actually cost them any money at all. As it stands, you'll also never know. They clearly have backed off the real-name-only idea.

      Again, we disagree, you DON'T LIKE the idea of Real Name Only foums, and I DO like the idea.

      Your opinion may be more populist or it could be one held by a vocal minority. It's possible that the vast majority of Blizzard customers never visit the WOW forum and couldn't give a toss.

      Considering the 10 million wow subscribers I'd expect that the WOW forum browsing population was significantly less than that. If it doesn't affect them and they stay silent. If the people who agree stayed silent (ish) and the people who were opposed were so vehemently opposed that they foamed at the mouth with rage... well the choice isn't hard to make.

      It still doesn't make it a black and white issue.

        There are many other possibilities outside of the single conclusion that you've drawn. I still think it is a good idea. I'd still prefer it. I don't think it's important though. So I'll not get upset if they don't do it.

  4. Not surprised by Pojut · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I haven't played WoW in a LONG time, but for a while I was a devout player (closed beta, open beta, from launch until two years later), and if there is one thing I saw during my time, it was Blizzard listening to the masses.

    1. Re:Not surprised by Itninja · · Score: 1

      All the more reason to obey regulation 46A: If transmissions are being monitored during battle, no uncoded messages on an open channel.

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    2. Re:Not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was before Blizzard was acquired by Activision. Things have definately turned to the worse since then and this proves it. Although they are no Electronic Asses (yet)

    3. Re:Not surprised by QuantumBeep · · Score: 1

      All the more reason to obey regulation 46A: If transmissions are being monitored during battle, no uncoded messages on an open channel.

      Is this one of those things where you say something that sounds just deep enough that people will sit there and try to figure out what you just said, but when they do figure it out, it turns out to not really mean anything? I like those.

    4. Re:Not surprised by SupremoMan · · Score: 1

      I played quite a bit of WoW myself. The thing I saw was Blizzard saying they will never do something... and then doing that exact thing a year or 2 down the line. Some examples: Horde Paladin/Allaince Shaman. PvE to PvP transfers. Class Transfers, Race Transfers.

    5. Re:Not surprised by Itninja · · Score: 1

      01011001 01100101 01110011 00101110 00100000 01011001 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101001 01110100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00101110

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
  5. Popularity by Translation+Error · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hmm... The company with some of the most popular computer games in the world listen to customer feedback and reconsider their decisions based on it. You don't suppose there could be some sort of correlation, do you?

    --
    When someone says, "Any fool can see ..." they're usually exactly right.
    1. Re:Popularity by phishtahko · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, that's why SC2 an D3 have LAN support. O, wait...

    2. Re:Popularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      LAN support is missing because it was only a handful of people on slashdot that cared. No actual functionality is removed by taking away LAN gaming.

    3. Re:Popularity by iceborer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Blizzard didn't listen to customer feedback. they backed down in the face of customer outrage. To imply that their popularity is due to the fact that they seek feedback is ridiculous. If Blizzard "cared" about their customers' opinions, they would have asked about feelings on this change before they announced it, rather than waiting to bludgeoned into submission after imposing the change.

    4. Re:Popularity by LambdaWolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Blizzard issued official no-CD patches for Starcraft, Diablo II, and Warcraft III a while after they were out. They're quite capable of being reasonable about removing anti-piracy features that annoy their players after some time has passed. Something tells me that the removal of LAN support is mostly just to keep Blizzard's corporate overlords from wringing their hands about teh p1rates too much. Hopefully, they will add LAN support in a patch after the initial rushes of retail sales are over.

      Not that it isn't still totally rude. But it's important to separate the Activision business jackasses from the intelligent people who actually make the games. It seems that the latter were in charge of this decision about the forums and they (eventually) made the right one.

      --
      "This algorithm runs in constant time. Come on, 2,147,483,648 is a constant..."
    5. Re:Popularity by dunezone · · Score: 1

      Yeah there is. To play against people in the same room you need to go through Battle.net; if its down then you cant play despite being attached to the same local network.

    6. Re:Popularity by Tridus · · Score: 1

      The pirates cared a lot about lan support too. Won't somebody think of the pirates?

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    7. Re:Popularity by LambdaWolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Playing a multiplayer game with someone in the same room as you without using/needing Internet bandwidth is functionality.

      --
      "This algorithm runs in constant time. Come on, 2,147,483,648 is a constant..."
    8. Re:Popularity by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The company with some of the most popular computer games in the world listen to customer feedback and reconsider their decisions based on it. You don't suppose there could be some sort of correlation, do you?

      Correlate this, then: if so, why do they still use DRM?

    9. Re:Popularity by G00F · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Only a handful? There are 252,781 last I checked who signed the petition. Me and my friends vowed to never purchase a game unless we can play LAN.

      I played SC2 beta with a friend in my network, behind the same firewall the performance was dismal!! And that was just two, I can't imagine 8 people! My network is gig, My firewall is a Linux based one with 4ghz, 1GB ram, Dual Gig,

      Another thing that pisses me off is these gaming tycoons saying LAN is obsolete. A gig LAN(or even 100mb) is far superior to anything I can get from Comcast. Not to mention having friends in the same room (what do you think made halo on xbox so popular)

      Taking away LAN does remove functionality. LAN is the ultimate multi-player gaming experience.

      --
      The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
    10. Re:Popularity by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

      So the new Cataclysm and SCII forums are out?!

      Oh wait, they're not.

      If Blizzard "cared" about their customers' opinions, they would have asked about feelings on this change before they announced it,

      So if Blizzard 'cared' they would have announced about something coming out in the future...and...allowed people to chime in with their on it?...which is exactly what happened?

    11. Re:Popularity by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      When I am playing WOW with a buddy sitting next to me, it makes sense to do this on a server, you know because there are a massive amount of other players also playing.

      When I am playing 2 player Co-op SC2 against computer AI, it seems rather stupid to have to connect to the internet in order to accomplish this feat. Exactly why are we connecting in order to connect, I mean he is siting there a few feet away connected to my very own LAN. Yet I have to have an ISP, modems, internet connection, transmit to some server who knows where, sign on, have an account, pay for all of that, all for what? DRM.

      Don't try and makes a reasoned argument if you don't have one. It is lame (having no LAN that is).

      That said, I will still buy it, and play it. However that move does stick in my craw a bit. I'll let it go, however if that bar keeps moving in that sort of screw you direction, even Blizzard can wear out its welcome over time.

    12. Re:Popularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1.) Those games aren't out yet.

      2.) You vastly overestimate the number of people who care.

    13. Re:Popularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this probably had to do with the fact that they soon after removing the protection launched their online store where one could purchase their products digitally. I for one don't see lan happening for their customers anytime soon.

    14. Re:Popularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, sure, keep fooling yourself that Blizzard has power to reverse a decision from Kotick.

      *If* we see LAN support, it will be 5 years after the first server emulator is out. But we probably won't. Blizzard want to ram their cheap copy of facebook down our throats one way or another.

      Not with my money.

    15. Re:Popularity by Trolan · · Score: 1

      Correlate this, then: if so, why do they still use DRM?

      Let's see:
      - SC: No CD, just a key. Digital download.
      - D2: No CD, just a key. Digital download.
      - War3: No CD, just a key. Digital download.
      - WoW: No CD, just an account. Digital download.

      None of those have copy restrictions, aside from having to buy a copy originally to get your key or account. I'm not seeing the DRM here.

    16. Re:Popularity by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Had they gotten 50,000 response in less then a day, I suspect they would of put it in. I also suspect the liability of putting everyones real name on the forum may had some influence in them reconsidering the policy change.

      Frankly, the demand for it is well below the threshold that makes it worth the cost to put it in.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    17. Re:Popularity by geekoid · · Score: 1

      petiononline is pretty worthless.

      Get 200,000 people to post in the Blizzard forums over a weekend would be different.

      If yoyur story is true, then your internet has issues. Or perhaps it was a beta. or perhaps you are connecting to the internet via a 2400 baud modem~

      I play a ton of gaes with steam, and never a network problem. I have a pretty middle of the road internet connection, and a box that was kick ass 3 years ago.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    18. Re:Popularity by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Considers the sales that SCII will have, I would consider that a handful. Outside of that, what percentage of those 252,781 people will actually not buy the game, that would have in the first place? Probably a slim one, since these are people who care so much about a game franchise to devote some amount of mental turmoil to it (and talk about the lack of LAN support like it is "serious business"). Its the same as the small, devout, camp of people who talk about boycotting D3 because it is "too colorful".

      That said, I think removing LAN functionality is a bit dumb, even though, if included, I would get zero use of it in real life. It is a marginal need though, not many people really care. I can't even remember the last LAN party I've been too, though I still game with friends over the internet. Most of my old LAN friends have moved on, and live in different cities and states, so internet play is much more convenient. I can still see a minority of people who have the right to be a bit pissed (not too much, since it is just a silly game).

      I'm a little miffed about the probable lack of spawn copies though. I'll still buy it, I wouldn't let a small thing like that get in the way of a couple months of enjoyment, though.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    19. Re:Popularity by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      There's a lot of potential complaints here, but, seriously, how often is battle.net really going to be down? Not all that often.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    20. Re:Popularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason they are removing LAN isn't because of Pirates.
      It's because of Tournaments.
      Blizzard wants all the gaming cafes that run Tournaments with their games to pay them additional fees, give them a cut of the registration.

    21. Re:Popularity by am+2k · · Score: 1

      Not true. I recently attended a small private LAN-party, where we played StarCraft 1 for some hours at a friend's company's conference room. I tried to show them the SC2 beta (it was up in phase 1 back then), but the network firewall there wouldn't let me log into battle.net, so that was a complete no-go.

      I dunno how we should to be able to do the same thing we did here with SC1 without any issues with SC2 as well. I guess we have to stick with SC1 for those :/

    22. Re:Popularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's functionality no one wants or needs. People already play multiplayer games with people in the same room all the time. It takes crap for bandwidth to do. I play games constantly and a month of gaming takes less bandwidth than 1 netflix. The only real reason for "LAN play" is to play with people who haven't paid for the game. It was nice of them to offer spawn copies in the past, but that's not standard functionality.

    23. Re:Popularity by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Something tells me that the removal of LAN support is mostly just to keep Blizzard's corporate overlords from wringing their hands about teh p1rates too much.

      It's for one reason and one reason only, to permit them to kill the game when they want to sell the next one. Case closed.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    24. Re:Popularity by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      None of those have copy restrictions, aside from having to buy a copy originally to get your key or account. I'm not seeing the DRM here.

      You don't see the need to be online to validate an installation as DRM? Copyright is only one right "managed" by DRM. Understanding DRM? You fail it!
      Shit, I just saw your nickname. I have been epically trolled. Why have I never seen your comments before? Are they all trolls?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    25. Re:Popularity by mobets · · Score: 1

      I would assume that the ability to host a game locally and browse for local servers would take a great deal of effort. That doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would simply be patched in. Maybe enough people will complain and they'll add it to the two expansions.

      --

      It was me, I did it, I moved your cheese
    26. Re:Popularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but unless you're on dial-up that's bullshit. Even on dial-up that's probably bullshit. I've gotten 4+ keys for the beta, and played on my home network with 4 people at the same time without any lag whatsoever.

      Your firewall is a piece of shit, why don't you buy a $20 netflix router so you can use your internet connection properly?

      A gig LAN? Are you serious? A gig LAN is worthless for gaming. Online gaming doesn't need even 1mb of bandwidth, except for downloading massive WOW patches once every 6 months.

    27. Re:Popularity by murdocj · · Score: 1

      You can copy them as much as you like, install them as many times as you like, as long as you BOUGHT a copy. So just what do you object to? The need to actually pay for what you use?

    28. Re:Popularity by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You can copy them as much as you like, install them as many times as you like, as long as you BOUGHT a copy. So just what do you object to? The need to actually pay for what you use?

      DIAF, Troll. I'm objecting to the inability to install them without an internet connection. To me that means there is not an installer on the disk, there is spyware which also happens to install the game. I'm not buying any more games which require online validation, having already been unable to play steam "backups" because I was on dialup and didn't have enough bandwidth to update steam. The first steam update download DOES NOT RESUME and no newer installer existed for direct download. So every time it failed I had to start over. Finally had to take my PC to a friend's house to do the update.

      You cannot install them "as many times as you like" without internet access, and that is the problem. It's gotten to the point where it makes no sense at all to pay for a game, because customers are treated like criminals while criminals get the experience that a customer should receive.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    29. Re:Popularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You overclocked your *firewall* to 4ghz? Does it have light tubes to match the spoiler on your Honda Civic?

    30. Re:Popularity by xmvince · · Score: 1

      Uhh they did the exact opposite when we begged them for LAN play, so your point is disproven.

  6. Another WoW killer passes by BlkRb0t · · Score: 5, Funny

    I thought we had a WoW killer in Real ID this time, but like always the developers don't keep up to their promise.

  7. We're not retreating.... by AutumnLeaf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We're rapidly advancing in a different direction.

    The pros and cons on both sides of this debate are compelling. Blizzard's time, money, and "quality of product (the forums)" versus people's privacy.

    Not sure why it had to be "either/or". I think they should have rolled out Real-ID-only forums in parallel and let people choose for themselves.

    In the end I think Blizzard waited too long. "Serious" WoW-related discourse doesn't happen on Blizzard's forums anymore. Most serious players know to start at elitistjerks.com. Not that their forums are perfect, but if I want good info on class mechanics, gear, talents, rotations... that's where I go.

    1. Re:We're not retreating.... by Nathanbp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's pretty clear that Blizzard either doesn't think they can or is not willing to do the level of moderating that is required to get forums of the quality found at Elitist Jerks. It's also clear that this proposed change had nothing to do with reducing forum trolling.

    2. Re:We're not retreating.... by Zironic · · Score: 1

      Most people that want to post on Elitist Jerks are fairly well behaved and well informed people to begin with (Why else would they visit the EJ forum in the first place?), in the meantime the official forums have to handle what must be 100 times the volume with a much lower average post quality even before moderation. Just saying "Well get more moderators then!!!" probably doesn't scale well to that sort of post volume.

    3. Re:We're not retreating.... by tbannist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's true, the WoW forums are really nothing but a cesspit. Throw in the fact that they've banned some of the best posters for trivial reasons like speculating about unreleased content and there's really no reason to read or post on the official forums. It's ridiculous that they think a handful of moderators can handle tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of posters on a daily basis.

      The real solution to the WoW forum problem is to hire more moderators, require a unique account id that's not necessarily your real name and not your login id, and to be much more public about when people have sanctions imposed on them and why. That won't clear everything up, but those three steps will go a long ways towards improving the situation. The perception that there is little to no effective moderation on the forums only encourages bad behavior.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    4. Re:We're not retreating.... by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      Or done what many other forums have done to great effect:

      1 forum ID per paying account, period, and it can't be changed, and then ban like crazy when people troll.

      You want to troll? Ok - say goodbye to your ability to post on the forums. Want to troll in-game? Ok - say goodbye to your ability to talk to other people except through local chat.

      When you can make free accounts, and as many of them as you want, or you can hide behind alts or whatever, and there are no consequences to you as a result, people will troll. When you have to pay for the privilege, most people stop doing it. When you have to pay and there's a very real probability that you'll be caught and banned, the rest of them will keep doing it for the 5 minutes it takes before they're kicked off.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    5. Re:We're not retreating.... by Servaas · · Score: 1

      I don't get how people are even discussing this? You want moderation on WoW forums you hire some forum moderators. At the moment they have 3 who "occasionally" post in a puppy thread and ban someone whose dis crumbled with Blizzard service. Other then that there is no moderation.

    6. Re:We're not retreating.... by Nathanbp · · Score: 1

      Most people that want to post on Elitist Jerks are fairly well behaved and well informed people to begin with (Why else would they visit the EJ forum in the first place?)

      If you think this you've probably never read The Banhammer (the forum on EJ where infractions are posted) or The Thread of Ultimate Suck (where bad posts are moved, usually after receiving said infraction).

      in the meantime the official forums have to handle what must be 100 times the volume with a much lower average post quality even before moderation. Just saying "Well get more moderators then!!!" probably doesn't scale well to that sort of post volume.

      Moderating forums scales fairly well with more people. A major problem with the official Blizzard forums is how much you have to do before you get banned. A much harsher policy would clean the forums up tremendously. Or so I'd like to think anyways.

    7. Re:We're not retreating.... by Zironic · · Score: 1

      No, that's the community managers, as they've said several times in addition to the posting community managers they have quite many moderators that never post. You probably don't notice because they don't show their bans publically.

    8. Re:We're not retreating.... by Zironic · · Score: 1

      You may notice that that entire subforum has less posts then the official forum RealID thread alone. And if you've actually read the thread of ultimate suck you may notice that most of the posts are pretty decent, just not EJ worthy.

    9. Re:We're not retreating.... by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      I don't know why it's so hard to tie moderation and in-game stuff together.

      For a given user account, be able to see how many friends, how many "ignores", how many bans/warnings they've had. Like slashdot, have some sort of karma and ability to filter. Want to browse at -1? Go for it. Want Foes to get +2 to posts? Sure.

      Something like that would solve a lot of problems. If I ignore you in game, why would I want to see your posts? If you get banned from posting, suddenly your in-game chat abilities don't work either.

      You can punish a persona without resorting to a real name.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    10. Re:We're not retreating.... by space_jake · · Score: 1

      I tried ignoring the trolls on the blizz forums but it doesn't really help you when the next Y posters quote their garbage. It does seem kind of dumb to not tie in-game ignores to forum ignores, or even to have them global across all your characters in-game.

    11. Re:We're not retreating.... by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      EJ has a policy of insta-banning people that are stupid. A policy I imagine blizzard cannot enact.

    12. Re:We're not retreating.... by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      The thing is, with some sort of karma/moderation quoting would die a swift death. If you got -0.1 karma for every troll's post you replied to, you'd soon stop replying to them. Or you'd be branded a troll yourself.

      I agree that it's hard to ignore trolls with idiots replying to them. It even happens here. But with moderation and karma, it's less of a problem.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    13. Re:We're not retreating.... by stanlyb · · Score: 1

      But when most of your subscribers are jerks....do you wanna to kill this business model?

    14. Re:We're not retreating.... by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, I think most corporate or developer sponsored forums tend to devolve into uselessness for the reason you've stated. Someone gets a thorn stuck up a dark place and people start getting banned for trivial reasons. This causes a fallout that can be difficult to stop. Many a game have lost its popularity because of this and throwing C&D letters out to fan sites like there's no tomorrow.

    15. Re:We're not retreating.... by Lythrdskynrd · · Score: 1

      We're rapidly advancing in a different direction.

      The pros and cons on both sides of this debate are compelling. Blizzard's time, money, and "quality of product (the forums)" versus people's privacy.

      Not sure why it had to be "either/or". I think they should have rolled out Real-ID-only forums in parallel and let people choose for themselves.

      In the end I think Blizzard waited too long. "Serious" WoW-related discourse doesn't happen on Blizzard's forums anymore. Most serious players know to start at elitistjerks.com. Not that their forums are perfect, but if I want good info on class mechanics, gear, talents, rotations... that's where I go.

      Oh Opt in sounds great!

      An option perhaps to "Show Only-RealID" posts?

      "RealID only" forums?

    16. Re:We're not retreating.... by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They just have to turn it into a game. The rating system is a start but can obviously be gamed. Definitely don't want to include tech support forums though.

      Level 1 forum user: Can post only once every 15 minutes for a total of 6 per day. Can create topics only once an hour for a total of 2 per day. Cannot rate posts yet.

      2-4 lowers post cooldown by 1 minute per level. Levels 3 and 5 grants 1 additional post each. Level 5 grants 1 more topic.

      And, you know, go from there. If your posts are reported or downrated enough, a mod will swing by and check them out. If you posted stuff you shouldn't have, you might only be bumped down a level or two (or however much seems fitting). If you're just a complete asshole, forum and game ban.

    17. Re:We're not retreating.... by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Oh Opt in sounds great!

      An option perhaps to "Show Only-RealID" posts?

      "RealID only" forums?

      I'm in on that.

    18. Re:We're not retreating.... by seebs · · Score: 1

      I do not think a Real ID forum should exist, at all, anywhere. It's too stupid, and too dangerous.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
  8. My question is why? by Meshach · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People can already be traced. In cased of extreme abuse the IP can lead to a subpoena which can lead to the ISP having to reveal the real location of who had that IP at that time. Why would Blizzard want real name to be mandatory for playing?

    --
    "Maybe this world is another planet's hell"
    Aldous Huxley
    1. Re:My question is why? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      Because it would be a barrier to entry for the assholes.

    2. Re:My question is why? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Because it would be a barrier to entry for the assholes.

      Why would they care whether their forum name is D1ckH3ad or Joe Bloggs?

      SOE link forum accounts to game accounts so you can only have one and bad behaviour on the forums can be linked back to the game account that you're paying money for. That's a far more effective solution.

    3. Re:My question is why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People can already be traced. In cased of extreme abuse the IP can lead to a subpoena which can lead to the ISP having to reveal the real location of who had that IP at that time. Why would Blizzard want real name to be mandatory for playing?

      good-luck-im-behind-7-proxies.jpg

    4. Re:My question is why? by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Except the real assholes that don't have a problem tracking you down and using real kerosene to end a flame war.

    5. Re:My question is why? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Except the real assholes that don't have a problem tracking you down and using real kerosene to end a flame war.

      My greatest objection to Blizzard backing down on this issue is underscored by the notion above.

      You're explicitly saying that the behavior you describe, physical retribution for digital offenses, is a foregone conclusion. You're implicitly saying it is normal, and by insisting that Blizzard take responsibility for it, you're effectively endorsing it.

      We ought to put the blame on the individual abhorrent behavior, where it belongs, rather than on this unrelated 'privacy' issue. By getting it backwards, we're actually making the world worse because Blizzard's confidence is effectively the only thing keeping people from setting you on fire.

    6. Re:My question is why? by quanticle · · Score: 1

      Sure, people can be traced if their actions are bad enough to be criminal. The problem is that there's a huge gap between "perfectly acceptable, normal etiquette" and "criminal misbehavior." In real life, deviations from normal etiquette are handled by social norms and mores. If you are a total jerk (but not to the point of being criminal) then you're ostracized. Its much more difficult to do this online, because whenever you do so, the person on the other end is free to change handles and get a "clean slate."

      That said, I do think Blizzard went about this in totally the wrong way. Like the Penny Arcade guys point out, World of Warcraft is a role playing game. People are playing it specifically to get away from their real life identities. A better solution might have been to have persistent identities, but not link them in any way to the real world. One possible implementation would be to allow each World of Warcraft account to have only one or at most a few forum accounts. In order to get more forum accounts, one would have to pay extra and sign up another World of Warcraft account. That cost alone would be a significant obstacle to the trolls, and it would preserve users' privacy.

      --
      We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
    7. Re:My question is why? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      My greatest objection to Blizzard backing down on this issue is underscored by the notion above.

      You're explicitly saying that the behavior you describe, physical retribution for digital offenses, is a foregone conclusion. You're implicitly saying it is normal, and by insisting that Blizzard take responsibility for it, you're effectively endorsing it.

      There are crazy people everywhere and games with easy ganking PvP attract even more of them than elsewhere. Even ignoring the usual asshats, given the number of players WoW has the odds aren't bad that there's at least one serial killer playing the game; you can't change that, and giving crazy people an easy means of tracking you down is not a good idea.

      Sure, odds are it won't happen to _you_, but only one person needs to be harassed in real life by an asshat for this to be a hugely retrograde step. And if it does happen to you, then telling Ted Bundy that you blame his individual abhorrent behaviour will probably give him a moment of amusement before he kills you.

    8. Re:My question is why? by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      It's a foregone conclusion that it will happen ... whether it's normal or abnormal or irrelevant, it's already happened numerous times so it will happen again.

      So what you are saying is that facilitating it happening more often and standing there pointing fingers and saying tuttut is some how going to make the world a better place? I don't really see how placing blame after the fact does that, but maybe that's just me being implicitly stupid.

    9. Re:My question is why? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      And when he goes to trial, he'll be able to point to your own comments as a function of his Twinkie Defense.

      It is just disgusting. To save a single, hypothetical life, we're willing to sacrifice personal responsibility?

      Think about how many players WoW has. Now consider how many people are in the rest of the real world. If the number of WoW players is reason enough for anonymity, then why not in the real world as well? Surely you realize which has more people in it...

    10. Re:My question is why? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      it's already happened numerous times so it will happen again.

      So, when did the RealID change go into effect? Or are you stating that it would happen with or without this change?

      I don't really see how placing blame after the fact does that

      Punishing the people that commit crimes, as opposed to the people that operate a gaming forum is likely a better deterrent.

    11. Re:My question is why? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      It is just disgusting. To save a single, hypothetical life, we're willing to sacrifice personal responsibility?

      If you believe that posting your real information all over the Internet is such a great idea, why don't you include your real name, address, phone number, employment details, etc, in every Slashdot post?

      If the number of WoW players is reason enough for anonymity, then why not in the real world as well?

      Yes, anonymity is a very good idea in the real world; most of us understand that only asshats benefit from removing anonymity from non-asshats.

    12. Re:My question is why? by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      [Putting] 'the blame on the individual abhorrent behavior' unfortunately does not much mitigate it. 'Blame' is a social concept, and it only works when people give a shit about social norms. People who stalk others to beat the shit out of them because of some flippant comment on a internet forum do not care about social norms. And because law is retributive, not preemptive (nor should it be), only after these wankers lose it can anything happen to them.

      All these things being what they are, it is necessary for a certain share of the responsibility to fall on the provider of the means of exchange to create an environment that mitigates the possibility of these sorts of things happening where it can reasonably do so. A degree of anonymity (as there is no absolute anonymity) is a step in creating such an environment, thereby mitigating the possibility of such scenarios, discharging their responsibility, and reducing their liability.

      I also take issue with the logic that Blizzard's responsibility for maintaining a level of privacy somehow 'endorses' bad behavior. That's like saying that putting up a fence endorses voyeurism and therefore the fence should be taken down. Somehow in your mind enabling behavior is better than however it is you see it being 'endorsed'.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    13. Re:My question is why? by Nadaka · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He is stating that there are several people harassed, physically assaulted, and even murdered because some asshat took an internet argument into the real world.

      The Real ID change would make doing so much, much easier.

    14. Re:My question is why? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      If you believe that posting your real information all over the Internet is such a great idea, why don't you include your real name

      You're going to be embarrassed when you see my handle... :)

      Yes, anonymity is a very good idea in the real world; most of us understand that only asshats benefit from removing anonymity from non-asshats.

      You don't get it in the real world. That'd be the point. In fact, in the real world people get to see your very face. They're privy to your ethnicity, age, likely occupation, etc, all at a glance.

      I understand that anonymity has advantages, but AVOIDING DEATH simply IS NOT one of them. This logic is appallingly stupid when you juxtapose it to real life.

    15. Re:My question is why? by BobMcD · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He is stating that there are several people harassed, physically assaulted, and even murdered because some asshat took an internet argument into the real world.

      The Real ID change would make doing so much, much easier.

      While it would make it easier, it would still be orders of magnitude more difficult than REAL LIFE, where it is not a common occurrence.

    16. Re:My question is why? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      All these things being what they are, it is necessary for a certain share of the responsibility to fall on the provider of the means of exchange to create an environment that mitigates the possibility of these sorts of things happening where it can reasonably do so

      Who then takes the responsibility for the city streets?

      That's like saying that putting up a fence endorses voyeurism and therefore the fence should be taken down.

      Close. It is like requiring fences and declaring that anyone without a fence is not protected by anti-voyeurism laws. Indeed not even the voyeurs are responsible for their behavior, only the city for not providing adequate fences.

      It is a crappy, crappy world to live in where people aren't expected to control themselves, and I resent being drug down into it.

    17. Re:My question is why? by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      I think he was saying that assholes would be burning relatively OK people...

      "Blizzard's confidence is effectively the only thing keeping people from setting you on fire."
      Anyone that is willing to set fire to someone and kill them over ANY action in wow has problems and is almost certainly worse than whoever they might be burning.

    18. Re:My question is why? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      You're going to be embarrassed when you see my handle... :)

      I already saw that your handle is 'BobMcD'; that's not a real name unless your surname is really 'McD', nor is it likely to be your full name even if that's the case (most people have at least one middle name too).

      And I note you cropped the rest of my request. Again, if you think anonymity is so bad, then what do you have to hide? Why won't you post your real name, birthdate, address, phone number, bank account details, government identfication number etc on every forum you frequent?

      You don't get it in the real world. That'd be the point. In fact, in the real world people get to see your very face. They're privy to your ethnicity, age, likely occupation, etc, all at a glance.

      In the real world I spend very little time around asshats. And if I do run into an asshat then they are unlikely to get my name or other identifying details which easily allow them to track me down.

      I understand that anonymity has advantages, but AVOIDING DEATH simply IS NOT one of them.

      Of course it is; you can't murder me if you can't find me. And avoiding harassment is a much larger benefit as there are many more asshats than murderers.

    19. Re:My question is why? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Anyone that is willing to set fire to someone and kill them over ANY action in wow has problems and is almost certainly worse than whoever they might be burning.

      We definitely agree on this point. Further the chances of such a person avoiding being locked up during daily life would be extremely low.

    20. Re:My question is why? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      And avoiding harassment is a much larger benefit as there are many more asshats than murderers.

      Let's not change the subject. The premise is that someone would DIE.

      Unless kerosene only tickles, I guess.

    21. Re:My question is why? by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      Just like a lock would not deter a burglar, it just makes it harder for the bad guy to do something bad to you. (i.e. revealing a real name makes the process extremely easy to track someone down and make life miserable for that person.)

    22. Re:My question is why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People don't murder one another over video game arguments, therefore its perfectly safe to reveal people's personal information and assume people WON'T murder one another over video game arguments?

      Wow, by that logic its perfectly safe to allow people to own nuclear weapons because its not a common occurrence for people to use it.

  9. You Have to Ask Yourself by Mr10001 · · Score: 1

    Do you think that Blizzard is really so ignorant as to believe that the community wouldn't explode with a change like this? Something smells here...

  10. anyone awake? by Lord+Dreamshaper · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Can they seriously not notice the weekly Facebook privacy dramas and not connect the dots as to how this scheme would blow back on them?

    I haven't seen the issue addressed, but I can't see that this measure wouldn't violate EU privacy regulations in some way

    --
    When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
    1. Re:anyone awake? by Zeek40 · · Score: 1

      The problem isn't that they weren't aware of the privacy dramas, it's that they were perfectly aware of those privacy dramas and wanted to participate in the data harvesting at the expense of their customer's privacy. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/05/blizzard-and-facebooks-friendly-social-networking-deal-launches-with-starcraft-ii-/1 The relevant quote is "Essentially, with one click I'm populating my social network in Battle.net on Facebook. "

    2. Re:anyone awake? by Lord+Dreamshaper · · Score: 1

      granted the article is all the way back in early May, but it was clearly an opt-in feature. Whether through ignorance or informed consent, if you want your real life details splattered all over the net, doesn't matter to me, I won't be affected because I won't opt-in.

      Quite different from this week's announcement that it's all public and non-discretional. In fact, IMO, the implied subtext was that they anticipated this backlash (as an obvious and reasonable reaction) and (it went without saying) wouldn't have dreamed of making Real-ID mandatory.

      Culturally, I think we have become more and more accepting of social networking in the context of your real identity and Facebook

      Really? Sadly, /. crowd is atypically informed on the ramifications of losing anonymity on the net. We would certainly be the percentage that is more opposed than ever to losing control over our privacy.

      So what we are doing is we are introducing this feature called Real ID, an optional layer of identity
      So what changed in just 6 weeks?

      not ranting at you, thanks for the article that summarizes exactly what we're all pissy about...I'm not sure I trust their about-face when I find it so hard to believe that they only got to that place in just 6 weeks. Perhaps they'll wait until we've all sunk our money into the new starcraft and the wow expansions then change back again?

      --
      When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
  11. They could make it really easy to track trolls... by CFBMoo1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Click on the posters name and you see a list of characters and what servers they're on. Now that level 1 anonymous troll isn't so anonymous while the rest of the populations privacy is still intact. Problem solved without as big an uproar, couple that with a new feature to ignore by account without actually giving out the account name to help ease any stalking fears and your set.

    --
    ~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
  12. Let the... by TechJag · · Score: 1

    G.I.F.T. reign on for many years to come!

    1. Re:Let the... by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      G.I.F.T. reign on for many years to come!

      Parent makes an excellent point, and I happen to agree.

  13. Not apathy... by Thinine · · Score: 1

    Apathy is not the word you were looking for in that last sentence. Something like negativity would work though.

    1. Re:Not apathy... by Thinine · · Score: 1

      Don't know whether it was edited or I misread, but it read antipathy now, which is fine. Why can't I delete comments?

    2. Re:Not apathy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why can't I delete comments?

      It's in the FAQ. It's so you have to stand behind anything you've said, retarded or not. Yours is nothing to lose sleep over.

    3. Re:Not apathy... by Sparr0 · · Score: 1

      Apathy is a perfectly acceptable word in that last sentence. Blizzard expected a lot of it, and saw very little of it.

    4. Re:Not apathy... by n0tWorthy · · Score: 1

      I think the word that should be here is animosity (i.e. hatred) and not antipathy (dislike). My $.02.

      --
      "Be kind, for everyone you meet is facing a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria -
  14. Whole real names in foodservice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Worked in the dorm commissary for awhile. At one point they decided to go from first names on name tags to first/last names. That lasted about 48 hours. You can't believe how much harassment will occur outside work if the patrons know your first/last name. There should really be a repository/educational class of REALLY BAD IDEAS for business majors.

    1. Re:Whole real names in foodservice by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      My sister ran into a similar problem as a nurse, one hospital required first and last names on their ID badge. The nurses used stickers to cover up last names because there are many crazy people with crazy family members that pass through hospital ERs every day.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    2. Re:Whole real names in foodservice by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1

      I've been referring this week to this whole RealID forum names as the "diet coke of mmorpgs".

    3. Re:Whole real names in foodservice by Nick+Number · · Score: 1

      The reason everyone has been looking at you funny is that it would make more sense to call it the "New Coke of MMORPGS".

      Diet Coke is more of a success story.

      --
      Promote proofreading. Don't mod up sloppy posts.
  15. Re:Sparkle Mammoths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know you're joking, but a multi-passenger Celestial Mammoth would be pretty sweet...

  16. Re:Windows Phone 7 Has Been Canceled by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

    She was eaten by the elephant in the room.

  17. Trouble with user registration by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

    The system couldn't handle so many people named Cowboy Neal.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  18. Global Alias = Win/Win by jtpalinmajere · · Score: 1

    All they really need to do is implement a mandatory Alias with your Battle.net profile to be displayed in lieu of your real name. You still get recognized as the person that plays X and Y character in game A and B, just without using your real name. It doesn't really help with the whole accountability thing (neither do using real names) as determined trolls will always be lurking about.

    I'd be even happier to see them implement controls for explicit authorization to share your real name, akin to one's email, phone, or address, to specific individuals/groups of friends, but simply using a global alias would suffice in the short term.

    1. Re:Global Alias = Win/Win by Bryansix · · Score: 1

      This has the added benefit that if you do something really stupid on the forums then you might not just get banned on there but all of battle.net

    2. Re:Global Alias = Win/Win by SweeBeeps · · Score: 1

      Exactly! How many trolls on the WoW forums specifically post using a level 1 alt?

  19. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Zironic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Do you know what makes you rather pathetic? That you haven't bothered to find out that info was not actually the right Micah Whipple lives in the opposite side of California.

    That utter failure of a copy pasted investigation is probably the least of the reasons they decided to change policy.

  20. That's Fantastic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Flame On!

  21. Re:They could make it really easy to track trolls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would work 'okayish' I guess. The reason I skip most online games is it really is a pot luck what sort of user you will get on the other end. Putting real names would put the 'would I say this to my family' squarely back in the picture. Honestly it is too late for WoW at this point to put the genie back in the bottle. It is out. People already are used to it this way. If it had been UP FRONT this way....

    I am looking for fun not jr high revisited. If I wanted that I would teach jr high school kids or play online games. I am a horrid teacher and frankly do not wish to go hang out with jr high kids or at least people who act like them.

  22. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by PitaBred · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually, that's part of the problem. What if someone who is completely unconnected to WoW but happens to have the same name as someone who does play? And THEY are the one who gets griefed IRL by some maniac who takes a game too damn seriously?

  23. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Zironic · · Score: 1

    It just annoys me how people keep copy pasting that thing without spending even two seconds to verify if it's even true.

  24. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by rotide · · Score: 1

    Absolute M.F. Win on that users part. Probably got a ban but drove the point home faster than any other method I can think of.

    PII is so scary to give out. Anyone with google can simply pop your name in and can come up with google street view pictures of your house with your car in the driveway.

    Games are for fun, relaxing, and escaping reality. Not providing _your_ reality to random internet citizens to scrutinize at will.

  25. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Visaris · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    There are levels of investigation appropriate for various types of posts. For example, if I were submitting a story to Slashdot, I would spend more time looking into things. However, I don't have the time to fully research and vet every little thing I ever link to on the web. Be realistic.

    --

    I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
  26. We Win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The masses have spoken!

  27. One key, one user by voodoosteve · · Score: 1

    I don't see the need to have people post under their real names in the Blizzard forums to lower the number of trolls. For example to post in the SC2 forums, you should need a SC2 key (this may already be in place) and since each user is associated to only one account, banning a user from the forums would require them to shell out another $60 for a new key. I think this would be a very good deterrent.

    1. Re:One key, one user by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

      It is already in place. You need a WoW account to post on the WoW forums (because you post as a character.)

      Plus you can only post in regions you have characters on. I.e., I can't post on the EU forums because, despite having a WoW account, I don't have any character made on an EU realm.

      The problem really boils down to they have a very small number of real moderators and many many many posts, and the infrastructure really doesn't scale.

      So, no, it's not as good a deterrent as you think.

    2. Re:One key, one user by voodoosteve · · Score: 1

      Sure but this in addition to the ability to rate comments should allow users to quickly point out the trolls much in the way /. does and then the mods can take a closer look.

    3. Re:One key, one user by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      The problem really boils down to they have a very small number of real moderators and many many many posts, and the infrastructure really doesn't scale.

      Then, uh, they could spend some of their trillion dollars a month income to hire more moderators and ban the asshats.

    4. Re:One key, one user by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

      Ahh, the government solution of 'just throw money at it...'

  28. hope heads roll on this one by CPE1704TKS · · Score: 1

    I really hope someone's head rolls for this mistake. I'm so tired of companies like Blizzard thinking they can do something stupid like force people to post with their real names.

    The executive in Blizzard that tried to force this really doesn't "get it", and needs to be removed from a position of power where they can cause even more harm to the company.

    It's exactly like when Intuit enforced DRM and then instantly lost hundreds of millions of dollars and had to kowtow to their users. That was obviously a decision done by a group of people that aren't good enough to make decisions on behalf of a multi-billion dollar company and need to be removed immediately.

    1. Re:hope heads roll on this one by MistrBlank · · Score: 1

      THEY'RE NOT FORCING ANYONE TO POST ANYTHING YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE THE FORUM SERVICE!!!

      And yes the shouting is mandatory because some of you people don't seem to get that fact, you just want to get your Internet feathers up in a storm.

    2. Re:hope heads roll on this one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is text based communication, there is no such thing as shouting. Use of obnoxious formatting in your text only reduces the signal to noise ratio of your message.

    3. Re:hope heads roll on this one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good luck removing Bobby Kotick though.

      Actually, he may have nothing to do with it, but he's enough of an ass that he should be removed anyway.

    4. Re:hope heads roll on this one by geekoid · · Score: 1

      which part should they be fired for: realizing their mistake and deciding not to go forward with it, or not stickling to their guns and doing it anyways?

      No one tried to 'force it'. The where up front and public about it, and respond to their customers outcry.

      All in all, good business. Was it stupid? sure, but if people lost their jobs everytime the suggested something stupid no one would every work.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:hope heads roll on this one by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      This.

    6. Re:hope heads roll on this one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. If you need any sort of support you MUST post on the forums. It can take hours or even days to get a call through the queue, and then they'll usually just tell you to post it on the forums anyway.

      The only other option is waiting 3-4 days for a GM to contact you in-game, which doesn't do much good if you can't log in because of whatever problem you need help with.

  29. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Zironic · · Score: 1

    I think that fear is completely overblown, people publish their real names in wide circulation all the time without getting overly griefed IRL, while the gaming community loves being abusive to eachother I doubt any notable amount will attempt IRL griefing.

    There are way more rational fears connected to the disclosure of real names like having your stupid rant about hunters being OP immortalized for all time by the Google index to be found by all your future employers when they google your name or female posters having a horrendously hard time being taken seriously.

    The whole "ZOMG, I'll get IRL griefed!!!" is just like the people that rather take the car then fly because this one plane crashed that one time and killed 300 people. Yes it happens, but not often enough to matter and there are much serious and probable things you should be worrying about.

  30. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Zironic · · Score: 1

    Then don't post a bloody A4 worth of text, geez. You could have just typed "Maybe they reconsidered if it was a good idea after someone posted a bunch of info after Bashiok(one of the CM's) posted his real name (link)". That would have saved us a sizable amount of screen real estate and you wouldn't look so ignorant.

  31. Tragic brainstorming by copponex · · Score: 1

    This is something you can squarely blame on MBA programs. They emphasize "thinking outside the box" but the important part about brainstorming is throwing away all the crappy ideas you just had and being able to keep the good ones.

    Just about every business model/decision that has you thinking "What the fuck?" can be traced back to brainstorming that wasn't followed with any constructive criticism.

  32. Doesn't have to be either or by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not have an anonymous asshat forum and a realID forum? Then users can pick based on the ratio of signal to noise and privacy.

  33. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Found this followup on another site:

    But did you know that Bashiok is tendering his resignation because of this? They didn't have the wrong guy. They had the correct person, but the wrong address. They had his mother's address. People were leaving notes on the door, she had to turn several pizza deliveries away. Oh, and eventually, they did find the right address. He's now staying in a motel.

  34. Why would the players need to know real names... by Roogna · · Score: 1

    The ironic thing is, they can take care of the trolls on the forums anyway. After all Blizzard -does- know which account a post is tied to. The rest of the player base doesn't NEED to know. If someone posts a particular immature or rude post the appropriate thing for the moderators at Blizzard to do is to ban the account. Not 3 day suspensions. Not second and third chances. Ban the account completely. The rest of the player base doesn't need to know the troll's real name for Blizzard to have a zero strikes policy on -THEIR- forums. Straight up ban enough accounts and people will settle down and take the trolling elsewhere. Especially since in Blizzard's case it costs real money to start another account to post with, and even those could probably be prevented easily enough with a bit of work on Blizzard's part without having to give private information out to the player base.

  35. This isn't about injured privacy of the geek by rsborg · · Score: 1

    This is about the unintended consequences outlined here on /. a few days ago.
    Think: women who could then be stalked, kids who (with enough research you can find anyones age) could be preyed on by pedos.
    When parents ban their kids from using Blizzard products, that *really* hits their bottom line.
    The privacy minded gamer was the one they were willing to shaft (along with the discerning LAN-partygoer)

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  36. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you know what makes you rather pathetic? That you haven't bothered to find out that info was not actually the right Micah Whipple lives in the opposite side of California. .. Do you know what makes *you* rather pathetic? That you haven't stopped to consider that it doesn't matter if this is the "right" Micah Whipple. What does matter is that now that his information has become "public domain" THIS person can potentially now receive high levels of disruptive events in his/her life. The obvious example is that if you don't like his behavior, you do a quick search, go slightly crazy, go find them and do something malicious.. and it may not even be the right person.

    Its bad enough that someone could find you in a video game and do something to you because of your actions (rolling higher on a coveted piece of loot) or something more nefarious.. but that potentially completely innocent individuals may receive undue harassment over it.. whatever

    I'm posting anon and no one will actually read this, but I know the example and illustration have been used ad nauseum

  37. Vindication! by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 5, Funny

    Never underestimate the power of nerdrage. We may be an army of cats, but stirr us up sufficiently and we become a pride of lions.

    1. Re:Vindication! by UninformedCoward · · Score: 1

      Lolcats

    2. Re:Vindication! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... on the internet.

    3. Re:Vindication! by Krahar · · Score: 1

      A million smelly cats charging at full nerdrage can be pretty scary. The smell alone...

    4. Re:Vindication! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Never underestimate the power of nerdrage. We may be an army of cats, but stirr us up sufficiently and we become a pride of lions.

      "It's like being nibbled to death by cats."

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Vindication! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lolcats

      Actually I was thinking of Cats from Zero Wing...

  38. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. all of this coming from the guy who doesn't even show his email publicly on slashdot.

  39. Not real names, but tied to accounts by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Blizzard should simply tie forum names to accounts in an opaque manner. You can only create a forum name if you have an account, and you can only create one per account and only if you have a game key activated on that account. The forum name can't be the same as the account username (to prevent disclosure), and once created you can't change it (CS can change it for you, but you have to give them a good reason to). That solves most of the problem without requiring real names anywhere.

    Basically for the purposes Blizzard claims to need to address, real identities aren't needed. What's needed is only two things:

    • Users need to be sure that the person behind a forum name today is the same person as was behind it last week. Usually referred to as "continuity of identity". They don't need to know who the person is, just that it's the same person.
    • Users need to be reasonably sure that a single person can't quickly and easily create multiple new identities to hide behind, so a new forum name almost always does represent a real new person.

    Neither of those requires disclosing real identities.

    1. Re:Not real names, but tied to accounts by oh-dark-thirty · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up, please...that is a great solution; why couldn't the Blizzards figure that out? Or maybe it was too much work to, you know, actually have to do some development to tie the game user db with the forum user db...

    2. Re:Not real names, but tied to accounts by 0101000001001010 · · Score: 1

      How'll that make Facebook any money?

    3. Re:Not real names, but tied to accounts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as a person who never played wow much less was ever on their forums I'm surprised this isn't the case already.
      forum accounts should be tied to your billing account and they should be able to ban people based on their ip or the routes their packets take to make sure that they are permanently banned.

    4. Re:Not real names, but tied to accounts by Cl1mh4224rd · · Score: 1

      Blizzard should simply tie forum names to accounts in an opaque manner. You can only create a forum name if you have an account, and you can only create one per account and only if you have a game key activated on that account. The forum name can't be the same as the account username (to prevent disclosure) [...]

      Uhh... This is almost exactly how it works right now. You log in with your Battle.Net account and select one of your WoW characters as your forum persona. My WoW account is currently inactive, so, while I can technically log in to the WoW forums with my Battle.Net account, I can't actually post.

      --
      People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
    5. Re:Not real names, but tied to accounts by Graff · · Score: 1

      Blizzard should simply tie forum names to accounts in an opaque manner. You can only create a forum name if you have an account, and you can only create one per account and only if you have a game key activated on that account. The forum name can't be the same as the account username (to prevent disclosure), and once created you can't change it (CS can change it for you, but you have to give them a good reason to). That solves most of the problem without requiring real names anywhere.

      I'd take it a bit further. I'd make it so that you sign up for the service with your real name/credit card/e-mail. You then create an account identity which cannot be your real name or e-mail. After that you can create characters, play the game, and use the forums as those characters as normal with one exception: anyone can see your account identity (not your real-life details) if they want to. They can also friend you and ignore you by that identity, and so on.

      Way too many people hide behind the "create a normal character and a bunch of disposable trolling characters". This would curtail the practice and contribute a ton to the health of the community. Essentially you would have a solid, dependable identity for each person which wouldn't reveal real details about the person.

    6. Re:Not real names, but tied to accounts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blizzard should simply tie forum names to accounts in an opaque manner. You can only create a forum name if you have an account, and you can only create one per account and only if you have a game key activated on that account. The forum name can't be the same as the account username (to prevent disclosure), and once created you can't change it (CS can change it for you, but you have to give them a good reason to). That solves most of the problem without requiring real names anywhere.

      Basically for the purposes Blizzard claims to need to address, real identities aren't needed. What's needed is only two things:

      • Users need to be sure that the person behind a forum name today is the same person as was behind it last week. Usually referred to as "continuity of identity". They don't need to know who the person is, just that it's the same person.
      • Users need to be reasonably sure that a single person can't quickly and easily create multiple new identities to hide behind, so a new forum name almost always does represent a real new person.

      Neither of those requires disclosing real identities.

      What they *REALLY* wanted to prevent, without really saying anything about it, is the sale or exchange of game accounts! Think about it... having a publicly available name would prevent anyone from ever parting with control of their account simply so that their name doesn't on google search 3 years down the line posting obnoxious things - making them unemployable.

  40. When one of their CMs revealed his name to prove by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    a point it was in minutes before people started posting his personal information, twitter account, facebook, name of his wife, kids, their house from google maps... etc

    http://vnboards.ign.com/world_of_warcraft_general_board/b19789/113357330/p1/?20

    Needless to say Blizzard started forum banning people.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  41. Removing My Posts by tomakaan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Although they reverted this change, I'm still pretty weary of the direction that Real ID is going. Personally, I've opted to delete all official WoW forum posts using a GreaseMonkey script I've found: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/81103

    1. Re:Removing My Posts by blair1q · · Score: 1

      I'm not clicking on that.

    2. Re:Removing My Posts by tomakaan · · Score: 1

      All source code is readily available on the UserScripts.org website and there's nothing destructive (other than to your existing WoW forum posts) in the code. Still, if you feel uncomfortable, you should not run it.

  42. Blizzard Scared by helix2301 · · Score: 1

    Honestly I think Blizzard got scared. The backlash from people was really bad I think they were afraid of people dropping off battelnet and there forums because of this move. Most people did not want this because of privacy issues such as stalking and employment issues. I think the big issue was a simple Google search of your name would have brought up information that most people did not want unveiled. I do think this will get more excepted as time progresses with Facebook and social networking getting popular. I can see them trying this move again in the future by then things may change.

  43. Not So clear by Jack9 · · Score: 1

    It's also clear that this proposed change had nothing to do with reducing forum trolling.

    Forums that have real-name associations (like most premium boards wherein a service is attached, say like ... sencha/extjs - albeit purely technical) have a great deal less trolling. There is also the issue of multiple accounts, which is not solved by most "alternatives" people have suggested. RealID makes sense and is a good idea, for Blizzard.

    I don't know why you would think this would not reduce trolling immediately.

    --

    Often wrong but never in doubt.
    I am Jack9.
    Everyone knows me.
  44. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by night_flyer · · Score: 1

    Doesn't matter if its true, might even make it worse since it is possible to target the wrong person with the same name

    --


    Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
    Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
  45. That is not a definite no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, but their response neither showed responsibility nor commitment to avoiding this disaster.

    They chose to make a wishy-wash corporate speak reply after several days of criticism.

  46. Re:They could make it really easy to track trolls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would only encourage e-vigilantism, if a level 1 troll is linked to somebody's main. Additionally, masterful trolls will just have a "forum trolling" account consisting of only level 1 alts, so that doesn't necessarily eliminate trolling at all.

    It also doesn't necessarily preserve legitimate uses of anonymity, such as posting to the Guild Relations forum for advice on how to handle a sensitive guild situation -- in fact, linking the question directly to the guild could make the situation worse.

  47. Some at blizzard must have thought it was bad by night_flyer · · Score: 1

    otherwise why let the thread go on for 50,000 posts if they didn't want to get a point across themselves?

    --


    Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
    Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
    1. Re:Some at blizzard must have thought it was bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe it was the CM that had his life ruined after posting his real name on the forums trying to make a point that nothing bad could happen from this change. Then suddenly the news was that CMs would not have their names revealed. So the stance was then, it's not safe for our employees to have their names revealed, but it's quite alright for everyone else to have their names exposed. The level of hypocrisy made it impossible for them to continue with this change.

  48. right to both access and anonymity? by theghost · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why does everyone dismiss the choice of NOT participating in Blizzard's forums as a way to protect your privacy and security. Plenty of people have made that same choice with regards to Facebook.

    So many people seem to think that free speech means being free to walk into someone else's living room and call them a cocksucker without having to fear getting punched in the face.

    --
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    1. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How about the fear of posting a normal message in the forum and having a deranged user track down your name and address, show up at your doorstep and punch you in the face FOR REAL?

    2. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by tilandal · · Score: 1

      Perhaps for the same reason people who don't like Obama don't all pack up and move to some other country. Customers a have right to have their voice heard.

    3. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How do you know that this isn't just the first step?

      If we let Blizzard get away with it here, who's to say the next thing won't be the WoW Armory listing the player's full name when you look up characters on it?

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    4. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      not everyone does.
      That said, when you start to ostracize people for wanting privacy and security, it pretty much means everyone is going to loose privacy and security.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by theghost · · Score: 1

      Slippery Slope Fallacy has rarely been more clearly demonstrated. Thanks.

      --
      The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    6. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by theghost · · Score: 1

      Security concerns are very real, but that's an argument for increased personal vigilance, not for universal anonymity.

      --
      The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    7. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by theghost · · Score: 1

      False analogies conflating public and private speech aside, in this case, the citizens of Azeroth moving to another country looks a lot like typing a different address in the web browser, not uprooting your whole life.

      At any rate, people do use immigration as an alternative to living under a repressive regime all the time.

      --
      The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    8. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by theghost · · Score: 1

      To clarify: I'm not even saying i think that reversing the plan was the wrong move. I just don't like the way the opposition to this was painting it as people being "forced" to reveal their real names. It's one game forum among many - using it is neither required nor a god-given right.

      I do think there's too much anonymity and too little accountability on the internet today. I'm not convinced that game forums are deserving of this level of protection.

      --
      The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    9. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      'Slippery Slopes' aren't always 'Fallacy'. Ever courted a woman?

      Oh wait, this is Slashdot. Nevermind...

    10. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all; I'm not a WoW player so I could be wrong about this, but from what I've gathered using the forum _is_ actually required for certain kinds of interactions with Blizzard. However, if you think there's too little accountability, how about you, "theghost", leading by example? Or are you too of the kind that ask one thing from others that you're unwilling to provide yourself?

    11. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1

      And my personal vigilance starts by not posting my real name on a forum where 11 million people have daily access, a good number of them morons and whackos known to lose it when someone expresses an opinion differing from them on the matter of which class rocks arathi basin more.

    12. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by theghost · · Score: 1

      No - you can call them and get anything the forums can provide. Sometimes it's faster to go to the forums, but usually that's in terms of searching for a fix for a known issue - no name-revealing required.

      Read again. I'm not saying everyone should use their real names all the time. The course of action i'm advocating is choosing based on the individual forum and its terms whether or not you want to participate. In that sense, i am already leading by example.

      --
      The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    13. Re:right to both access and anonymity? by theghost · · Score: 1

      I should have said that you can call them and get anything helpful that the forums can provide. I'm pretty sure that if you call them they won't tell you, "LOLZOMG UR GEER SUX! L2P NUB! UR CLASS IZ GAAAAAAY!"

      --
      The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
  49. "How much you have to do to get banned" by twoallbeefpatties · · Score: 1

    But what's the threshold for the ban? Part of the problem with the WoW forums is not just trolling and flamebaiting but also just the horrendous signal-to-noise ratio. It's a bit like saying that you're going to browse Slashdot at +3 and see 10 posts and then browse at +1 and see 1,000. But can you ban people just for being stupid or greedy or short-sighted? Is a post that just says "warlocks are overpowered they need to be nerfed" enough for a ban or deletion? And since there are a lot of general-population, non-hardcore players who are naturally attractied to the game's official forums to share their opinions, do you want to deliberately alienate those people by telling them that they're posts aren't good enough?

    The advantage that boards like Elitist Jerks have is that they can moderate at a level of not matching the board's standards - they can subjectively lock posts that are overly simplistic or don't add anything to the discussion if they feel like it. I don't think you're ever going to see true "subjective moderation" implemented as a policy at WoW forums - there's just too much politics involved. But the problem as it stands now is that there's so much subjectively bad material clogging up the WoW forums that it's rarely worth trying to read through them, and when you do find a post on a topic you're interested in, it's hard to tell who actually knows what they're talking about and who is just good at bullshitting.

    I supported the RealID maneuver because I felt that it was Blizz's attempt to do something to make the forums worthwhile. I don't know 100% if it would have worked, but I hope they manage to come up with something else. Maybe, like, a karma system. :V

    --
    Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
  50. The End of GLBT by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Posting real names would have ended all honest GLBT discussions in an instant. That's immediately a great reason not to post them.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:The End of GLBT by twoallbeefpatties · · Score: 1

      If you want to have an honest GLBT discussion, why are you having it on the WoW boards? That's not being flippant - if I were going to have a discussion about any serious, mature topic, I would consider posting it amongst the flotsam of the WoW boards to be an exercise in futility, lost amongst a sea of uninformed one-liners and arrogant diatribes. On a RealID-backed board, I might not suggest you start a post outing yourself as gay, but I'm not sure I would bother starting ANY discussion on the WoW boards as they stand now.

      --
      Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
    2. Re:The End of GLBT by Ironix · · Score: 1

      Sadly, I would have to agree with you for the most part. It is because of the generally decrepit community in WoW that people like myself have to find solace in GBLT strongholds like the Proudmoore server.

      --
      Still #1 -- Lonely Gay Geek
    3. Re:The End of GLBT by Lythrdskynrd · · Score: 1

      If you want to have an honest GLBT discussion, why are you having it on the WoW boards? That's not being flippant - if I were going to have a discussion about any serious, mature topic, I would consider posting it amongst the flotsam of the WoW boards to be an exercise in futility, lost amongst a sea of uninformed one-liners and arrogant diatribes. On a RealID-backed board, I might not suggest you start a post outing yourself as gay, but I'm not sure I would bother starting ANY discussion on the WoW boards as they stand now.

      My initial reaction was to agree with this... but on further consideration, I think it's the audience / demographic that really needs a safe place to discuss those topics:

      1) anonymous

      2) introverted

      3) teenage

      4) safe from ridicule

      5) comfortable

      6)...

      Yes, WOW might not seem like the ideal place to worldly adults, but to a small town / high school teen it might be their whole world. Or at the very least the only place they can be truly honest.

      Most of all it seems a case of "Any port in a storm" ... if it saves a life right ? (I'm not even being overdramatic here, gay teens are said to be 4 times more likely to commit suicide http://gaylife.about.com/od/gayteens/a/gaysuicide.htm)

    4. Re:The End of GLBT by twoallbeefpatties · · Score: 1

      You have just made the single most coherent point against using the RealID system that I have heard to date. I abscond.

      --
      Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
    5. Re:The End of GLBT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Why are you discussing your realworld GLBT status in the forums for an online fantasy game? Go find a GLBT forum for that.

    6. Re:The End of GLBT by AudioEfex · · Score: 1

      Uh, not everyone is a closet case, so it wouldn't have ended "all honest" discussions.

    7. Re:The End of GLBT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because, slashdot poster, people have friends, and talk to them about their life - not just in-depth discussions, but offhand comments too. Being a member of a GLBT guild is indicated by your character, which would be linked to your real name, so this would hurt publicly-closeted GLBT players who joined a guild to provide a safe, welcoming and accepting community without the "lolfags" spam that takes up most of WoW's chat, or simply so that they could feel free to say "seeya, bf's calling me for dinner" to their in-game friends in guild chat without immature guild members harassing them for it, which is very common in the general population. A lot of people mention that it's their birthday in guild chat, and if someone asks (after the usual grats on ding) what they're doing to celebrate, should they say "going out to see a film with my, er, partner" rather than "seeing a film with my gf"? In an ideal world people wouldn't be dicks, and such guilds wouldn't be necessary, but if this was the best of all possible worlds we wouldn't be having this discussion.

  51. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by rotide · · Score: 1

    I play games (not wow anymore, thankfully) to escape the realities of life. I play to just dissolve into a game world for 15 minutes, an hour, whatever. I don't need to make a comment on the forums that some 12 year old doesn't like who then turns around and uses my unique real life name to then go to my facebook and post my pictures with penises drawn all over it. Sounds harmless and in reality I wouldn't be hurt by it, but it's just unnecessary BS I'd have to put up with that involves me, personally, in real life.

    With my name, you can easily find out what my personal address is, what my phone number is, etc. Who is to say a disgruntled 12 year old guildmate, of whom I just kicked out of the guild, won't simply start prank calling me. Or, I get 4 chan'd by the same jerk and thousands of people start pranking me. I would call that a very real form of IRL griefing.

    It's a game where irrational kids frequent. This isn't a professional support forum for diagnosing routing issues where you can post with very little chance of an enraged 12 year old trying to annoy you in real life.

    But above and beyond all of that... I should simply have the right to not provide my personal information when I choose. Not when Blizzard chooses.

  52. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Zironic · · Score: 1

    What's next, I'm meant to start being worried about a potential griefer harassing random people out of the phone book if I type something that annoys him? Stop giving in to fear, geez, it's this sort of batshit craziness that allows police states to happen.

    If you're going to be worried, atleast be worried about something remotely plausible, I mean where is this flood of IRL griefers going to come from anyhow? Stick to addressing the real privacy issues connected to name exposure rather then useless paranoia.(Professional consequences, name based discrimination, inability to escape RL etc)

  53. Re:QQers win again! by space_jake · · Score: 1

    As much as I hate this on the WoW forums it seems oddly appropriate here.

  54. Here's why they did it.. by Khyber · · Score: 0, Troll

    I found a couple of shareholder credit card and security code numbers, and fired off an e-mail with them enclosed, with the clear phrase "Implement RealID, this is what is up at stake, bare minimum."

    I'm brutal, but that's the *ONLY* way you're going to get them to listen. Threaten their money directly, and they'll back the fuck off.

    *waves to Electronic Arts*

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:Here's why they did it.. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      yes, it was all you~
      Liar.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Here's why they did it.. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      I've got a *LOT* more pull than you'd suspect.

      Especially when I'm still on the phone with their lawyers right now discussing how I obtained these details to avoid a lawsuit from them.

      Not my fault some of their shareholders are stupid enough to use sites that transmit CC in plaintext.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  55. How about this. by UninformedCoward · · Score: 1

    Assign a moderation system that promotes in-game uniqueness. Make good posts and get a white aura around your toon in game, or a companion pet, or anything. Everyone can see it, totally optional, and promotes good posting. Troll posters could get chat limitations or slow XP growth, or any number of penalties. I think blizzard has to realize that people posting on the forums are most likely playing the game. Hit them where it hurts.

  56. New ways of bullying by danhaas · · Score: 1

    Giving out the real name of players would open the door for more serious bullying. For a start, imagine some douche names his character BlackKiller and starts ganking in game only people who are black IRL.

  57. The internet is forever. by ChaoticLimbs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Look, if I apply for a job, the last thing I want them to know is personal data about me. If I played WoW, I would want to keep that private, because people are petty and opinionated, and the less they know about you, the less they don't like. That's my reason for freaking out about it. The long term record-keeping quality of the internet means that anonymity keeps my opinions, my hobbies, and my interests separate from the database containing my real name. It's not that I'm ashamed of it, it's that I refuse to submit to the whims and prejudices of others.

    1. Re:The internet is forever. by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

      I find it more amusing that you give other people ammunition by clearly feeling ashamed of being a WoW player.

      After pressure from my friends, I tried WoW for a month, I thought it was "okay" but really not for me - so I dropped out, but my friends are still avid players & good luck to them.

      But if someone asks me "Have you ever played WoW?", I'm not going to say "Oooh, no, never!", I shall say exactly what I've told you above - and if people want to consider me a loser for it, so be it - then they're probably not people I'd want to associate with in the first place.

      I can understand someone not wanting an employer to find their name on pr0n sites or affiliated to some extreme political party - but WoW is entertainment, it's no different to standing on a terrace watching a football (soccer) match every Saturday.

      The British comedian Ben Elton once asked the question how a bloke who spends £30 on a football shirt with the name of a Japanese computer company on the front of it can be considered "one of the lads" yet a bloke that goes round with his mates at a weekend dressed like a hobbit and bashing them over the head with a rubber sword is some kind of sad little man...

      I really do wish people would just say "To hell with it" a bit more and go do the things they like doing without worrying what other's might think of them all of the time - if what they're doing isn't harming anyone else, what's the problem?

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    2. Re:The internet is forever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it more amusing that you give other people ammunition by clearly feeling ashamed of being a WoW player.

      Nothing he said implies any such thing, in fact he explicitly stated the opposite. A desire to keep something private does not imply shame, and to think otherwise is a variation of "If you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide".

    3. Re:The internet is forever. by BobMcD · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.

      C. S. Lewis

      And I whole-heartedly agree.

    4. Re:The internet is forever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll try to use small words to explain this. Some people don't like people who play video games. They don't have any good reason, they just don't like them. Sometimes these people are in the position to decide if you get hired. They're never going to tell you the reason they didn't hire you was that they googled your name and found out you played WoW. Yes these people are dumb and jerks. Yes they exist. They might be perfectly reasonable people to work with/for other than this, or maybe you just need to pay your bills and don't mind working with someone who is a jerk to do that.

      I would like to have the option of being hired by these people to pay my bills without having to worry about this problem. Not having my full real name on the WoW forums helps me do this.

    5. Re:The internet is forever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look, that's all well and good, but I have to pay my bills, and if some corporate focknot in an overly tight necktie is going to nose around my business, I want him to find nothing remotely interesting or controversial.

      I don't fear my own childishness, but I'm frankly terrified by the feckless, irrational and idiotic nature of some of the people on this planet.

    6. Re:The internet is forever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there are plenty of ways to live that do not involve that type of behavior in any such way. people can't work for the man, and then blame bills/responsibilities/whatever. its like when people say, "it's easy to be idealistic when you don't have responsibilities". you can have both, but you DO have to work harder for it and maybe lower your comfort levels. using them as a cop-out is just sad.

    7. Re:The internet is forever. by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

      I'll try to use small words to explain this.

      I would suggest using opening sentences like the above probably does more damage to your employability than the fact you play WoW.

      You need to turn off the "Holy Shield Of Arrogance & Suspicion" off for a few minutes and re-read my article - perhaps then you will see there was nothing in it justifying a retort like that.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    8. Re:The internet is forever. by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

      and if some corporate focknot in an overly tight necktie is going to nose around my business

      Once again, have a look at phrases like the above as they probably say more about your employability than the fact you play WoW.

      I don't fear my own childishness, but I'm frankly terrified by the feckless, irrational and idiotic nature of some of the people on this planet.

      This may be a strange concept to you but people who do not play WoW are not lower in the food chain than you.

      At least I can hold my head up as someone who tried the game for a month before deciding he didn't like it - but quite frankly, one of the reasons I didn't like it was the sheer number of feckless, irrational and idiotic people running around making nuisances of themselves and doing their best to ruin the gaming fun of everyone else.

      Both inside and outside WoW there are clearly at least a few people with some dubious social and interaction skills.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  58. Bad idea all around by TiggertheMad · · Score: 1

    It's well known that a pseudonym enables people to be complete assholes. Complete.

    Really? Then Ban them. Blizard knows what account name is attached to a forum post. problem solved.

    And I'd bet that the moderators of these forums were sick and tired of seeing cases where this happened.

    Ban. Ban. Ban. Delete Account if needed. I don't really see a problem here.

    Also, it isn't having a pseudonym that causes people to be assholes. Its the larger disconnected nature of the internet. Even if I call you a bastard, and you know my real name, how will that hurt me if you live in Florida and I live in California? Chances are, we will never meet, or interact in any way outside that forum.

    The only thing this real name policy would do, would be to insure that Blizard got sued when some unhinged nut went and murdered someone else because they were called a 'hamdoctor' on Blizard's forums. And I will wager hard cash with anyone who thinks otherwise, because there are just enough loons playing WoW.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
    1. Re:Bad idea all around by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Bingo! I don't play WoW, but I do play NationStates, and when someone is an @$$, the mods delete the offending nation. If they continue to be an @$$, they delete ALL his nations, and if necessary they IP ban him and put him on their Delete On Sight list. Of course, since NS is free, they don't loose money by banning miscreants.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  59. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Hatta · · Score: 1

    So, what's your real name?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  60. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Zironic · · Score: 1

    Johan Rydén, yours?

  61. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you know what makes you rather pathetic? That you haven't bothered to find out that info was not actually the right Micah Whipple lives in the opposite side of California.

    No, what makes him rather pathetic is that he put "bard idea" in his subject line without singing the entire post.

    What makes you rather pathetic is that run-on sentence abruptly launches into a new clause doesn't make sense.

  62. These heads? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is the reason they're backing off: http://asnowstormbyanyothername.blogspot.com/

    It seems it's no skin off their nose until chickens come home to roost.

  63. EJ == good model by TiggertheMad · · Score: 1

    Most people that want to post on Elitist Jerks are fairly well behaved and well informed people to begin with (Why else would they visit the EJ forum in the first place?)

    ...because EJ aggressively bans anyone who acts like an idiot. Go check out their 'banhammer' section for copious examples. EJ realizes that 90% of their users really appreciate that 10% of the users aren't worth having around. There are a lot of idiots that visit EJ, they just dont stay long.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  64. Not Quite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Their prime motivation behind Real ID was not the quality of the forums and helping users. It's the deal activision signed with facebook to promote closer cooperation. Activision saw Farmville's success and wanted a piece of the pie of social networking/gaming. Real ID was the first step towards the $$$ of a social networking/MMORPG. Imagine the targeted advertising potential in that monstrosity.

    They couldn't care less about the user's complaints. They expected any money lost to cancellations to be made up with money from a new social networking/MMORPG model of targeted advertising.

    Things only really hit home when this happened: http://asnowstormbyanyothername.blogspot.com/

  65. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So had he been a stalker, he would have killed the wrong person.

    How is that better?

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  66. not it's not win/win by geekoid · · Score: 1

    People have secrets. secrets they can be ostracized, fired, and killed over in some places.

    I know people who are still in the closet. The have several characters. The have the character they play with their gay friends, and a character they play with there older friends and family.

    You could argue that should just 'come out', but that would show how little you know of those situations.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:not it's not win/win by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      I know people who are still in the closet. The have several characters. The have the character they play with their gay friends, and a character they play with there older friends and family.

      You could argue that should just 'come out', but that would show how little you know of those situations.

      Would it be an undue burden for them to have a second account?

    2. Re:not it's not win/win by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      I know people who are still in the closet. The have several characters. The have the character they play with their gay friends, and a character they play with there older friends and family.

      You could argue that should just 'come out', but that would show how little you know of those situations.

      Yeah for example they might be a minister of religion or a politician with strong religious backing and wouldn't want anyone to know that they are actually gay and regularly hook up with young male prostitutes.

      No, its never ok to live a double life (unless you do so in order to create problems rather than to escape from them).

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  67. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I think that fear is completely overblown, people publish their real names in wide circulation all the time without getting overly griefed IRL, while the gaming community loves being abusive to eachother I doubt any notable amount will attempt IRL griefing.

    And people don't publish their real-life names in wide circulation, and still get people figuring out their real-life name and harassing them. I've been a Wikipedia admin for five years, and in that time:

    * I've been sued twice.

    * I've been the recipient of numerous death threats

    * I was the intended target of a real-life harassment campaign. The person leading it figured out my real-life name, and then connected it to the wrong address and telephone number. Some random person in Michigan suffered a few weeks of attacks before the perpetrators figured out they had the wrong target.

  68. Why shouldn't Blizzard... ? by WSOGMM · · Score: 1

    Why shouldn't Blizzard just use a moderation system similar to our very own? It seems that this kind of system would be a lot more effective in reducing the amount of trolling and general stupidity. Is the population on the forums just too big?

  69. Re:They learned why it's a bard idea the hard way. by Hatta · · Score: 1

    No sir, I value my privacy. Glad to see you practice what you preach at least.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  70. That's good cause I opted out already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last night my son and I opted out of the RealID account provision.

    For you, it might not be a big deal.

    But there are only two people in the entire world with our last name, so there is no way I'm going to let the level 70 Death Knight I ganked last night find out WHO I am and WHERE I live so that he can set my house on fire, in his teen-fueled rage.

    Privacy isn't a privilege.

    It's a RIGHT.

  71. Conspiracy? by Well-Fed+Troll · · Score: 1

    Any sufficiently pervasive general motive is indistinguishable from a conspiracy.

  72. Yeah Starcraft 2 is back on my wish list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was wondering what sort of numb skull company Blizzard had become. But then the world cried foul and they listened. I commend them for responsiveness. I still condemn them for blind nonsense. I will be watching for more idiocy.

  73. Horizon by warGod3 · · Score: 1

    I think that with SWTOR on the horizon, WoW may have to do a lot to prevent losing users. Pissing off a bunch of consumers could lead to unsatisfied customers who may find something "better."

    --
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General James Mattis
    1. Re:Horizon by Zironic · · Score: 1

      I find it funny how so many people are seeing SWTOR as the savior "It's made by Bioware, they're the good guys!", but then they forget that Bioware is currently owned by EA who are tied with Activision for pure profiteering and they've already shown their willingness to butcher Biowares work for more money (Just look at Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age).

  74. They listened to players? My ass! by Chas · · Score: 1

    They got socked in the pocketbook by cancellations.
    They saw traffic on the boards spike, mainly in a single 2200 page thread. Most from paying accounts (I'm sure the gold farms and bots stayed quiet), all stating that they would NOT take a bite of this shit sandwich and they could prep for further cancellations if this actually didn't get changed TODAY.
    And they were made to look like complete assclowns in the media.

    About the time the beancounters got through running the numbers, a hit was put out on whomever it was that actually considered this a good idea and the heads of several highly placed underlings were left on the doorsteps of the forums by way of apology.

    So what does this mean for Blizzard/Activision now?

    Well, first of all, it's demonstrated that they're NOT trustworthy when it comes to things like this (unless you can pose a real threat to their revenue stream and public persona simultaneously).
    As such, only a fool would continue trusting them. Unfortunately the WoW playerbase is large enough to keep Blizzard tripping over likely fools for several decades.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  75. Oh, not again. by TheWormThatFlies · · Score: 1

    People who are in love with this utopian vision of anonymity-free forums are always amazed to find out that not everyone shares their opinion.

    People are assholes to each other offline despite knowing each other's real names (and addresses, and mothers, etc.).

    People are assholes to each other online despite knowing each other's real names too. You can feel pretty secure being an asshole when you know for a fact that your target lives a continent away, or in another city. Unless you actually break some kind of harassment or hate speech law, what are they going to do?

    The kind of person who would actually travel a vast distance to beat up someone who pissed them off on a forum would obviously have a field day with real names, and I doubt the reciprocal revelation of their own name would do much to deter them.

    Some people don't want to connect their real names to their forum nicknames, not because they are ashamed of anything they say or think that there's anything wrong with it, but because they're aware that they might attract serious meatspace trouble for it anyway. Or because -- like me -- they just don't want everything they've ever said online to be instantly and trivially linked to their real names with a single search.

    Finally, some people don't like to use their real names because the names themselves reveal things about them which invite additional crap from assholes: gender, nationality and race. The internet allows people to present a neutral public face to strangers, and thus communicate on a more level playing field than is ever possible face-to-face. I consider this to be one of the best things about the internet, and I'd like to cultivate it, not eradicate it.

  76. Nothing about this is "nice". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What really happened is that LEGAL called management and explained to them that the EULA would not protect them from liability if someone was to get hurt because of this. Jerks and idiots in the game are also jerks and idiots in real life. All it takes is one wacko who's is willing to travel in order to club that "annoying rogue" in real life.

    In fact, the new real ID isn't that secure. Add-on can grab it despite you.

    Think about this.

  77. this is not over by Nightjed · · Score: 1

    if you read the forum post that supposedly "ended" this "feature" youll notice that they didnt completely rule out doing it again in the future, they just understood they were going too fast and need to slow down/sweeten things a little, you WILL see this thing again eventually, mark my words

    i also think most of you guys are missing the big picture here, moderation might be a good reason to *give out to the public* for this but it really makes little sense to roll out this kind of system for just that, too much cost, testing and backlash just for a "chance" to calm down trolls that have been there since ever

    a more probable reason for this is to prepare the road for integration with other services (many of which require real names), never forget that bnet is turning into a store with starcraft2's release and as such it wants to be THE store, imagine being able to use facebook/twitter, pay your taxes and order your pizza without closing the bnet window, all while leaving activision-blizzard a nice cut of the transaction

  78. Bah by xmvince · · Score: 1

    So they yield when we complained about this, but not LAN? If anything, LAN is much more important than whether or not we use names on the forum. Add LAN before it's too late! Wait.. It is too late.