Didn't you, as well as the others who are talking price, forget to add in the $$ for per seat licensing that get tacked onto NOT ONLY Windows Server, but to other items like Exchange and SQL Server??
..."The Microsoft chief executive also contrasted the quality of software that's produced by commercial makers to that of software that's developed under the open-source model. 'Should there be a reason to believe that code that comes from a variety of people around the world would be higher-quality than from people who do it professionally? Why is its pedigree better than code done in a controlled fashion? I don't get that,' he said....
Uh, maybe... doing it for pride, pleasure, or just because you love doing it, versus crack-of-the-whip-get-the-most-profit-out-of-your- lazy-programming -ass-in-the-absolute-least-amount-of-time-to-satis fy-the-shareholders -pockets? Not discounting that thare are plenty of OSS people who ARE getting paid to do it, and that OSS IS controlled, just in a different manner than closed.
For petes sake where have you been for the last few years while all the discussion about how screwed up the copyright system has become has been going on?!?!?!
SCO claims that Linux has code in it that was copied from Sys V Unix. In fact, apparently since this code also exists in ancient v5 and v7 Unix that has already been released to the world, this must mean that part of the reason tha Unixware and Openserver suck so bad is that SCO also copied, and still use, this old crappy code from the ancient versions.
Ha. Starting at 1:30, the time the announcement was released, SCO's stock suddenly took a 15% nosedive! Maybe if a few other notable companies filed similar suits their stock would hit the ground? I know it likely means less than nothing in the long run, but it's a nice thought.
Let's assume this happens. Now no one works, therefore no one gets paid, therefore no one has money to buy the stuff these folks are automating at us. Are they going to start giving it away for free, as if people were cows coming to the bale of hay dropped in the field for them?
As with anything else, it's "the squeeky wheel that gets the grease".
If it gets enough attention *in the right places* to become *a big deal* for, say, the media to report on as a top story, it will get much closer scrutiny by those in the gov't who oversee those things that 'just another lawsuit'. Guillty or not, why do you think Martha Stewart is getting hit so hard? Because she makes a good omelet? No, it is because she is plastered all over the media.
Contrary to the hype most people in the real windoze world are still using 9x of some form, and are going to continue to do so, so ya, it needs to work solid there, too.
Yes, ls and mv are relatively simple programs. I just used those names as examples because they are well known and short to type, but I was referring to ALL the programs that are in any common Linux distro, including 'complicated' things like gcc. (don't bring up the chicken and the egg) My point was simply that anytime you write any program from scratch you have lots of bugs to fix, features to add, etc. If we had been in the position of having to write ls, mv, cp, gcc, etc., etc. AFTER the Linux kernel came into being, there would have been a long period of time devoted to writing and bug-fixing those thousands of other programs and scripts required to accompany the kernel in order to provide the user with a complete OS, rather than basically having the entire GNU set all ready to go with years of proven use behind them.
Yeah, right. Just so you know, if you pour a bunch of parsley in a baggie and stand on the street corner selling it as pot, when you get busted the local prosecutor WILL charge you with attempted sale of illegal drugs, and WILL get a conviction.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have always been under the belief that you can perfectly legally record (read 'copy') from the radio/tv for your own personal use? Whether it is a 1st gen or 2nd gen perfect copy should in reality make no difference.
...but without all of the GNU software, the Linux kernel would be nothing...
If RMS hadn't started done the GNU project way back when he did, we would still be working out zillions of bugs in things like ls, rm, mv, getty, etc., instead of having a full-fledged unix-like OS ready to go with the Linux kernel when it came into being.
Sure, RMS may be somewhat of a wack-job at times, and I don't agree with him all the time either, but lets give credit where it's due. It was due to his vision and hard work that Linux was ABLE to take off and start flying high right away instead of floundering around in the muck for a long time.
Correction, you deal with the feds when FEDERAL law is being broken, and the local boys when state/local law is being broken. Or, you should, anyway...
I have 2 things that happened where the 'feds' were involved, and I can say from experience that this is exactly the response you will get from the feds for trying to do the right thing.
I have a dialup inet connection at home. Sux, but that's my only viable option at the moment. I stuck a 6.1 or 6.2 Redhat box on the modem and set it up as a firewall/default gateway for the other 3 (Windows) pc's in the house. The kids have to play online games, etc, ya know. I stupidly left the ftp server running for some reason. Worked flawlessly for 2 years. One day I came home and the box had crapped out in the midst of booting with a strange error. Finally got it up and things didn't even look right. Yup, I had finally had my first experience at being rootkit'd. Fortunately they had used a screwed up rootkit and it didn't like something about my system or the OS and it crashed on reboot. I freaked out and called the FBI right away in case they wanted the box to 'collect forensic evidence' or something. The conversation went like this, and the money figure is the one he used: "Hello, FBI" "Hi, I got my computer system hacked into. What do we do now?" "Uh, did you lose at least $50,000.00?" "No..." "Sorry, we could care less then. Goodbye"
My other story, and I was more upset on it, happened when I worked at the courthouse when the 'dad's'(or mom's) paid the support there so the court could track the payments, then we would deposit it and write our own check to the 'mom's' (or dad's) and mail them out. A person we sent a check to lived in an apartment, but had moved and hadn't given us his/her new address. Someone else was now living in the apartment where we sent the check. To top it off, the post office had mis-delivered the check to a different apartment in the complex. (I know, it is confusing) Anyway, the person who got the check didn't know that the person it was made out to had moved. This person, knowing it was a check for a substantial amount of money, went to the address on the envelope and told the person who (now) lived there that they would only hand over the check for a certain percentage of the amount!!! This person said she would think about it and immediately called us. At this point we have the perfect 'sting' waiting to happen, and all the authorities have to do is be present when the blackmailer returns to settle the deal! So I called the FBI and they said they didn't care, and I should call the postal inspectors office. So I did. This guy said if there wasn't 'thousands and thousands' of dollars at stake he wasn't interested in the least. So here we have a real crime happening and no one cares, but when some kid goes out and knocks over a few mailboxes they throw the book at em. Those two events alone were more than enough to tell me to NEVER trust the federal gov't nor rely on them to do the right thing where individuals citizens are involved. and this was all before that moron Ashcroft got in charge. (who is unfortunatelly from my state, and boy were we glad to get rid if him, or so we thought!)
Unfortunately, there are other factors at work. Namely 3rd party software and drivers.
Case in point, I am in the unfortunate position of (I REALLY hate to admit it, too!) running a (inherited) SCO server. While our application software vendor would, with major arm twisting, paying them to recompile, test, install, etc, still support our app if we had them send us a set of Linux binaries, the backend runs on Synergy (www.synergex.com). They do make a Linux version of it, but it is prohibitably expensive to get a 'different OS upgrade' from them, to the tune of about 15k last time I checked. So, I am stuck for the time being.
Uh, maybe the same argument the anti-Linux crowd uses to try to 'persuade' people to use their OS instead of Linux... "less apps available for your OS"
I was a big fan of theirs before the Napster/Congress debacle. From that day on, without exception, I have never listened to a single song of theirs when I had control of the choice of music/station. Each time their music comes on I note the station, switch to another, and make it a priority to avoid that station for the rest of the day.
Some people tell me that it is a total waste of time and makes no difference whatsoever. To that I say, if that is true then the entire premise and theory of the whole advertising industry is a complete lie. If every person who feel this way does their part it can and will make a difference
One could spend their entire life reading patents and never get a line of code written because of it.
My view is that the 'closed source' companies have a much highr probability of having other peoples copyrighted (or patented) code in their products simply because no one outside their closed group has access to it. "...don't re-invent the wheel, Bob, here is a chunk of code already done that does exactly what you are wasting my time coding, just change the variable names..." . With open source, OTOH, you can't hide it, and presumably, you wouldn't want to try to either. Like the commercial says, "...don't be 'that guy'..."
Further, there is NO WAY anyone, regardless of whether they are doing a closed or open source project, can 'know' or 'find out' if code they are accepting is really under a closed source copyright simply because no one outside the closed group can see that closed source to check...
I would bet a tidy sum of money that if all source code to all programs everywhere were suddenly forced to be released right now today as is (impossible I know), there would be a TON of people and companies crapping their drawers!
Excessive speed is excessive speed. Matters not if it was 20 over the limit or 90 over the limit.
The way our crazy legal system works, if you were speeding it is your fault, even if the other guy was asleep at the wheel and crossed the line and hit you...
Fine, let's go the next step with you as the beta tester. Have the lab stick an electronic probe in your butt and record everything you do, say, where you go, what you eat, drink, when you sleep, fart or have sex.
Regardless of how the safetycrats think, I for one don't want my every move recorded for the gov'ts use against me later if they want.
Slashdot Mirror
...$299x3 > $799 once for Windows server 2003....
Didn't you, as well as the others who are talking price, forget to add in the $$ for per seat licensing that get tacked onto NOT ONLY Windows Server, but to other items like Exchange and SQL Server??
Uh, maybe... doing it for pride, pleasure, or just because you love doing it, versus crack-of-the-whip-get-the-most-profit-out-of-your
For petes sake where have you been for the last few years while all the discussion about how screwed up the copyright system has become has been going on?!?!?!
In the spirit of "Why SCO Unix Sucks Rocks"....
SCO claims that Linux has code in it that was copied from Sys V Unix. In fact, apparently since this code also exists in ancient v5 and v7 Unix that has already been released to the world, this must mean that part of the reason tha Unixware and Openserver suck so bad is that SCO also copied, and still use, this old crappy code from the ancient versions.
Wow. That was so easy. If everyone registers 10 times as 10 different people, that would be fun for them! :)
Gee, isn't voting against any incumbent a violation then? Or does he even get to havwe a vote now?
Ha. Starting at 1:30, the time the announcement was released, SCO's stock suddenly took a 15% nosedive! Maybe if a few other notable companies filed similar suits their stock would hit the ground? I know it likely means less than nothing in the long run, but it's a nice thought.
Let's assume this happens. Now no one works, therefore no one gets paid, therefore no one has money to buy the stuff these folks are automating at us. Are they going to start giving it away for free, as if people were cows coming to the bale of hay dropped in the field for them?
ARGH! Soylent Green is PEOPLE!
As with anything else, it's "the squeeky wheel that gets the grease".
If it gets enough attention *in the right places* to become *a big deal* for, say, the media to report on as a top story, it will get much closer scrutiny by those in the gov't who oversee those things that 'just another lawsuit'. Guillty or not, why do you think Martha Stewart is getting hit so hard? Because she makes a good omelet? No, it is because she is plastered all over the media.
Contrary to the hype most people in the real windoze world are still using 9x of some form, and are going to continue to do so, so ya, it needs to work solid there, too.
"BTW Don't use File->New Window, click on the shortcut."
I'd say that ^^^^ is it. Get about 8-12 'open link in new window' windows going in ie and you will need a reboot in short order.
Yes, ls and mv are relatively simple programs. I just used those names as examples because they are well known and short to type, but I was referring to ALL the programs that are in any common Linux distro, including 'complicated' things like gcc. (don't bring up the chicken and the egg) My point was simply that anytime you write any program from scratch you have lots of bugs to fix, features to add, etc. If we had been in the position of having to write ls, mv, cp, gcc, etc., etc. AFTER the Linux kernel came into being, there would have been a long period of time devoted to writing and bug-fixing those thousands of other programs and scripts required to accompany the kernel in order to provide the user with a complete OS, rather than basically having the entire GNU set all ready to go with years of proven use behind them.
Yeah, right. Just so you know, if you pour a bunch of parsley in a baggie and stand on the street corner selling it as pot, when you get busted the local prosecutor WILL charge you with attempted sale of illegal drugs, and WILL get a conviction.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have always been under the belief that you can perfectly legally record (read 'copy') from the radio/tv for your own personal use? Whether it is a 1st gen or 2nd gen perfect copy should in reality make no difference.
...but without all of the GNU software, the Linux kernel would be nothing...
If RMS hadn't started done the GNU project way back when he did, we would still be working out zillions of bugs in things like ls, rm, mv, getty, etc., instead of having a full-fledged unix-like OS ready to go with the Linux kernel when it came into being.
Sure, RMS may be somewhat of a wack-job at times, and I don't agree with him all the time either, but lets give credit where it's due. It was due to his vision and hard work that Linux was ABLE to take off and start flying high right away instead of floundering around in the muck for a long time.
Correction, you deal with the feds when FEDERAL law is being broken, and the local boys when state/local law is being broken. Or, you should, anyway...
I have 2 things that happened where the 'feds' were involved, and I can say from experience that this is exactly the response you will get from the feds for trying to do the right thing.
I have a dialup inet connection at home. Sux, but that's my only viable option at the moment. I stuck a 6.1 or 6.2 Redhat box on the modem and set it up as a firewall/default gateway for the other 3 (Windows) pc's in the house. The kids have to play online games, etc, ya know. I stupidly left the ftp server running for some reason. Worked flawlessly for 2 years. One day I came home and the box had crapped out in the midst of booting with a strange error. Finally got it up and things didn't even look right. Yup, I had finally had my first experience at being rootkit'd. Fortunately they had used a screwed up rootkit and it didn't like something about my system or the OS and it crashed on reboot.
I freaked out and called the FBI right away in case they wanted the box to 'collect forensic evidence' or something. The conversation went like this, and the money figure is the one he used:
"Hello, FBI"
"Hi, I got my computer system hacked into. What do we do now?"
"Uh, did you lose at least $50,000.00?"
"No..."
"Sorry, we could care less then. Goodbye"
My other story, and I was more upset on it, happened when I worked at the courthouse when the 'dad's'(or mom's) paid the support there so the court could track the payments, then we would deposit it and write our own check to the 'mom's' (or dad's) and mail them out. A person we sent a check to lived in an apartment, but had moved and hadn't given us his/her new address. Someone else was now living in the apartment where we sent the check. To top it off, the post office had mis-delivered the check to a different apartment in the complex. (I know, it is confusing) Anyway, the person who got the check didn't know that the person it was made out to had moved. This person, knowing it was a check for a substantial amount of money, went to the address on the envelope and told the person who (now) lived there that they would only hand over the check for a certain percentage of the amount!!! This person said she would think about it and immediately called us. At this point we have the perfect 'sting' waiting to happen, and all the authorities have to do is be present when the blackmailer returns to settle the deal! So I called the FBI and they said they didn't care, and I should call the postal inspectors office. So I did. This guy said if there wasn't 'thousands and thousands' of dollars at stake he wasn't interested in the least.
So here we have a real crime happening and no one cares, but when some kid goes out and knocks over a few mailboxes they throw the book at em. Those two events alone were more than enough to tell me to NEVER trust the federal gov't nor rely on them to do the right thing where individuals citizens are involved. and this was all before that moron Ashcroft got in charge. (who is unfortunatelly from my state, and boy were we glad to get rid if him, or so we thought!)
Unfortunately, there are other factors at work. Namely 3rd party software and drivers.
Case in point, I am in the unfortunate position of (I REALLY hate to admit it, too!) running a (inherited) SCO server. While our application software vendor would, with major arm twisting, paying them to recompile, test, install, etc, still support our app if we had them send us a set of Linux binaries, the backend runs on Synergy (www.synergex.com). They do make a Linux version of it, but it is prohibitably expensive to get a 'different OS upgrade' from them, to the tune of about 15k last time I checked. So, I am stuck for the time being.
Uh, maybe the same argument the anti-Linux crowd uses to try to 'persuade' people to use their OS instead of Linux... "less apps available for your OS"
I was a big fan of theirs before the Napster/Congress debacle. From that day on, without exception, I have never listened to a single song of theirs when I had control of the choice of music/station. Each time their music comes on I note the station, switch to another, and make it a priority to avoid that station for the rest of the day.
Some people tell me that it is a total waste of time and makes no difference whatsoever. To that I say, if that is true then the entire premise and theory of the whole advertising industry is a complete lie. If every person who feel this way does their part it can and will make a difference
NO ONE can check all code for all possibilities of copyright violation because NO ONE has all access to all closed source code.
One could spend their entire life reading patents and never get a line of code written because of it.
My view is that the 'closed source' companies have a much highr probability of having other peoples copyrighted (or patented) code in their products simply because no one outside their closed group has access to it. "...don't re-invent the wheel, Bob, here is a chunk of code already done that does exactly what you are wasting my time coding, just change the variable names..." . With open source, OTOH, you can't hide it, and presumably, you wouldn't want to try to either. Like the commercial says, "...don't be 'that guy'..."
Further, there is NO WAY anyone, regardless of whether they are doing a closed or open source project, can 'know' or 'find out' if code they are accepting is really under a closed source copyright simply because no one outside the closed group can see that closed source to check...
I would bet a tidy sum of money that if all source code to all programs everywhere were suddenly forced to be released right now today as is (impossible I know), there would be a TON of people and companies crapping their drawers!
One would think so, but at the top of my slashdot page were these ads today:
Buy SCO OpenServer 5.0.7
Want the latest greatest OpenServer You can buy it from SysIntegrators!
www.sysintegrators.com
NCR Systems-Parts-Upgrade
Huge stock - Authorized Distributor Free expert technical support.
ncr.vecmar.com
SCO Unix and Linux help
Installation & troubleshooting More than 20 years of experience
aplawrence.com/answers.html
Sco Unix
Find Solutions for Your Business Free Reports, Info. & Registration
www.KnowledgeStorm.com
What a complete waste of bits....
Excessive speed is excessive speed. Matters not if it was 20 over the limit or 90 over the limit.
The way our crazy legal system works, if you were speeding it is your fault, even if the other guy was asleep at the wheel and crossed the line and hit you...
Fine, let's go the next step with you as the beta tester. Have the lab stick an electronic probe in your butt and record everything you do, say, where you go, what you eat, drink, when you sleep, fart or have sex.
Regardless of how the safetycrats think, I for one don't want my every move recorded for the gov'ts use against me later if they want.