Slashdot Mirror
Red Hat Sues SCO, Sets Up Legal Fund
An anonymous reader writes "Red Hat has released a PR Newswire article stating that it intends to sue SCO Group to prove that it doesn't infringe any of SCO's intellectual property regarding the Red Hat Linux platform, and to hold it accountable for its actions and smear campaign. They've also announced the creation of a legal fund, to which they've pledged $1M US dollars to fight complaints such as these, called the 'Open Source Now' fund."
[03:35] squeeze my tail and my penis pops out.
I'm sorry, but IBM (the company that has made billions in revenue off GNU/Linux) should be floating the bill. Red Hat is too poor to be getting into a legal slug fest with a company that has literally transformed themselves into a litigation firm. IBM has the money to fight, while Red Hat might end up getting dragged through the proverbial legal-mud, and never really get anywhere.
What might serve Red Hat better is to send their customers information regarding how absurd SCOs claims are, complete with the opinions of legal experts on the matter, like the OSDLs terrific "position paper". The people, especially those in the corporate world, have to be clearly shown how absurd and evil SCOs actions have been. Litigation by a small company is going to be long, expensive, and perhaps in the end fruitless.
Regarding the OSDL's paper, I personally like the analogy made concerning publishing houses:
Imagine the literary equivalent of SCO's current bluster:
Publishing house A alleges that the bestselling novel by Author X topping the charts from Publisher B plagiarizes its own more obscure novel by Author Y. "But," the chairman of Publisher A announces at a news conference, "we're not suing Author X or Publisher B; we're only suing all the people who bought X's book. They have to pay us for a license to read the book immediately, or we'll come after them." That doesn't happen, because that's not the law.
This story is here as well:
Red Hat files suit against SCO
To see SCO and sue in the same headline.
In case the site (or routes to the site) get slashdotted. Here is a mirror.
Great news that industry leading Open Source companies like Red Hat take action against SCO's asinine campaign.
Of course it's in Red Hat's business interest do something like this, but it's still a step in the right direction.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
That million-dollar pledge? Will be used to pay the bandwidth costs for this Slashdotting.
Does this help RedHat's customers? I mean, SCO can't really do anything to RedHat's customers while they are involved in a lawsuit with RedHat themselves?
Or can they? I honestly don't know...
...when SCO will countersue?
CNET article about the suit: http://news.com.com/2100-1016_3-5059547.html
I didn't expect Red Hat to do this - was more expecting IBM to go at them with at 20MT nuke or something. Nonetheless, good show!
This sig no verb.
I love linux. I use it on my desktop. I use it on servers. I use it everywhere. And the stuff that SCO is claiming is simply mud slinging. I think it's safe to say that the very fact that they refuse to show their proof shows us that their claims are feeble at best.
In any case, it was only a matter of time before companies like Red Hat started to act against SCO, not relying on IBM to do all the work. I wouldn't be suprised of SuSE and other major Linux companies started their own lawsuits.
I am a filthy pirate.
I'm glad someone is standing up to these idiots. Now if the rest of the Linux community works together to defend itself, we can bring this mess to an end. By the way, SCO's stock price is down quite a bit. Hooray! Hit 'em where it hurts!
As seen on Yahoo Finance. Time to buy? :)
(Set to the tune of Starblazers)
We're off - to see the courts,
We're leaving sense behind,
To save, the G-N-U....
Our law blazers!
Subpeona fly like distant stars,
We will litigate way far,
Showing code that should be ours
Who knows what IP we'll find?
We must - be strong and brave!
RMS - our souls will save!
If we don't - in a few years -
Linux servers, will dissappear!
Our law blazers!
Or - ah, something like that. If nothing else, we can hope for Space Cruiser Yamato to open up the Wave Gun on SCO headquarters. I would pay money so see that.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
I would wager RedHat could claim damages to their business reputation for all that SCO has claimed. SCO is trying to scare people away from Linux (and into their license-fee income stream), but if they lose the IBM suit, their statements could be considered libel/slander.
Also, I take this as a good sign that SCO has no chance to survive. The RedHat folk aren't stupid: they wouldn't enter this fray unless they were reasonably sure of success.
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
Went out and bought anoter copy of Red Hat at lunch and mail Red Hat $10 for the legal fund. If only 5% of slashdot readers followed suit :)
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
I hope other distributors and solution providers will join Red Hat in their case.
As of now, Yahoo! is showing SCOX at 11.50. It was well over 13 when I checked 4-6 hours ago. I don't recall seeing it below 12.50 since their lastest FUD manoevre a couple of weeks ago.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
This lawsuit against SCO is just. When RedHat wins, it will significantly add to the company's bottom line.
Buy RedHat stock now before it goes up even further -- just my opinion.
Maybe it's time I recommend we buy support for our RedHat 8.0-based firewalls. :)
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
SCOX stock is down 12% as of right now... I think we need to short it and then reinvest it into Open Source Now. Now thats a business plan!
Red Hat has 90 million in cash and short terms, hardly "poor".
http://biz.yahoo.com/fin/l/r/rhat_qb.html
I say great! Now where can I go to donate $30 to the fund? Not much but better than complaining. Hmmm ... perhaps I'll RTFA.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Have you been hurt by SCO?
Sue them.
The more suits the better.
Way to go RedHat!!! Take the fight to them! I'll give to that fund!
But just keep that one under your hat.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Red Hat has filed a formal complaint. This is a good thing. SCO will have to put out or shut up.
Get a free ipod.
Can anyone think of any historical examples of a firm turning into a pure litigation house and actually succeeding on behalf of their shareholders?
Intertrust is laying claims to patents over DRM. What happens when you get GPL'd code for DRM? Perhaps
not DRM globally, but for inter-company or inter-network communications? Then along comes Intertrust and sues you for breaching their patents? Sues who, exactly? Linux community? RedHat? IBM?
Here, check out these patents at http://www.uspto.gov
6,601,236 Cross platform program installation on drives
using drive object - IBM
6,601,059 Computerized searching tool with spell checking
- Microsoft
6,594,644 Electronic gift certificate system - Amazon
6,590,593 Method and apparatus for handling dismissed dialogue boxes
- Microsoft
There's 4 found in a couple of minutes. All were awarded in July. Show me the innovation in those, or something that isn't common sense, perhaps even being done many years ago? E-gift-certificates?? Seems like all they did was describe a gift cert, and then slap email on it. Amazon also has one-click shopping.
And finally, here's a great kicker. All they did was take something that commonly happens via hardwire network, change the hardwire to wireless, and then patented it.
6,601,040 Electronic commerce terminal for wirelessly communicating to a plurality of communication devices
- USA Technologies, Inc. (Wayne, PA)
How do those even qualify for patents?
And again, what if those are done in open source, whether BSD, GPL, or any other? You immediately step on someone else's patents, and then they lay claim to Linux and all of this SCO stuff starts all over again?
I'm just wondering what the plan is. RedHat's $1million is for open source based companies to "steal" patents?
And I definitely take offense when someone uses these idiotic patents to file suit against someone else,
whether it's IBM, MS, or anyone else.
Vip
But if you think i am going to speand my hard earned money financing some fund for a legal battle, then you've got another thing comming.
I support linux by donating money to EEF, buying linux distros etc, but helping one corporate entity fight it out with another one, give me a break.
Red Hat even though I stopped using you since 8.0, You have my very best wishes and symphaties, but that's all.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
The people, especially those in the corporate world, have to be clearly shown how absurd and evil SCOs actions have been.
I almost think that not enough emphasis is being placed on this point. SCO should have notified of their intent to sue way, way, beforehand. What they did instead was basically say "Here's your month, and tell us how you're using Linux in each and every aspect of your company, and also pay us these fines." Sorry, can't do that. From a court's perspective, their claim of plagiarism may or may not be valid -- their method for going about this is definitely invalid.
The coolest voice ever.
thanks to redhat for the lawsuit. i hope other companies can do their own actions.
US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
Red Hat Takes Aim at Infringement Claims
Complaint launched against SCO claims, Red Hat pledges $1MM to create fund to protect Linux
SAN FRANCISCO--August 4, 2003--Red Hat, Inc. (Nasdaq:RHAT) today made two significant announcements to protect Red Hat Linux customers and the worldwide Linux industry. First, Red Hat announced that it filed a formal complaint against The SCO Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: SCOX, "SCO"). The purpose of this complaint is to demonstrate that Red Hat's technologies do not infringe any intellectual property of SCO and to hold SCO accountable for its unfair and deceptive actions.
"We filed this complaint to stop SCO from making unsubstantiated and untrue public statements attacking Red Hat Linux and the integrity of the Open Source software development process," said Mark Webbink, General Counsel at Red Hat. "Red Hat is confident that its current and future customers will continue to realize the significant value that our Red Hat Linux platform provides without interruption."
To further protect the integrity of Open Source software and the Open Source community, Red Hat has established the Open Source Now Fund. The purpose of the fund will be to cover legal expenses associated with infringement claims brought against companies developing software under the GPL license and non-profit organizations supporting the efforts of companies developing software under a GPL license. Red Hat has pledged one million dollars to be provided as funding in this initiative. For more information please e-mail opensourcenow@redhat.com.
"The collaborative process of Open Source software development which created the Linux operating system has been unjustly questioned and threatened," said Matthew Szulik, Chairman and CEO of Red Hat. "In its role as industry leader, Red Hat has a responsibility to ensure the legal rights of users are protected."
About Red Hat, Inc.
Red Hat is the world's premier open source and Linux provider. Red Hat is headquartered in Raleigh, N.C. and has offices worldwide. Its European headquarters is based in Surrey, UK, with offices throughout Europe. Please visit Red Hat on the Web at www.redhat.com.
Forward-Looking Statements
Forward-looking statements in this press release are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of Section 21E ofRed Hat Takes Aim at Infringement Claims
Complaint launched against SCO claims, Red Hat pledges $1MM to create fund to protect Linux
SAN FRANCISCO--August 4, 2003--Red Hat, Inc. (Nasdaq:RHAT) today made two significant announcements to protect Red Hat Linux customers and the worldwide Linux industry. First, Red Hat announced that it filed a formal complaint against The SCO Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: SCOX, "SCO"). The purpose of this complaint is to demonstrate that Red Hat's technologies do not infringe any intellectual property of SCO and to hold SCO accountable for its unfair and deceptive actions.
"We filed this complaint to stop SCO from making unsubstantiated and untrue public statements attacking Red Hat Linux and the integrity of the Open Source software development process," said Mark Webbink, General Counsel at Red Hat. "Red Hat is confident that its current and future customers will continue to realize the significant value that our Red Hat Linux platform provides without interruption."
To further protect the integrity of Open Source software and the Open Source community, Red Hat has established the Open Source Now Fund. The purpose of the fund will be to cover legal expenses associated with infringement claims brought against companies developing software under the GPL license and non-profit organizations supporting the efforts of companies developing software under a GPL license. Red Hat has pledged one million dollars to be provided as funding in this initiative. For more information please e-mail opensourcenow@redhat.com.
"The collaborative process of Open Source software development which created the Linux operating system has been unjustly questioned and threatened,"
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked.
If wonder whether the OSNF (Open Source Now Fund) is a non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation? Should it be? If so, should Red Hat's contributions to it be tax deductible? While others will benefit from the fund, so of course will Red Hat.
Also, who will be administering the OSNF? Will they work for or be connected to Red Hat? Who will make the decisions regarding the disbursement of funds, etc.?
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
They've thrown their HAT in the ring?
Sorry, had to say it.
Yahoo Finance reports that Red Hat has a market cap of 1.159 Billion, while SCO only has a 151.9 Million market cap.
While market capitalization does not tell the whole story, it does show that Red Hat is a much more financially powerful company.
With that and the fact that they almost certainly have a rock solid case, the fact is they should sue the shit out of SCO.
It's GPL: stop spreading FUD.
This is a SEPARATE issue from the "Open Source Now Fund". I havne't found a copy of the filing, but making unsubstantiated and untrue public statements about your competitors is a serious buiness law violation.
Does anybody else see this coming? Just as MS is secretly behind SCO, it's going to become clear that IBM is behind Red Hat. So, if I might make the Babylon 5 analogy...
The Shadows are Microsoft and IBM are the Vorlons, while the Centauri are SCO and the Alliance is Red Hat...
Each "First One" is trying to win their side of the war using the smaller races as the pawns in their larger game.
Don't fall for it Red Hat, you're just doing what they want you to do! You got to choose to stand on your own and kick MS and IBM directly.
Although, wouldn't it be great if the CEO of Red Hat shows up with a space ship and a 50megaton Nuke to blow a hole in Z'hadum (Redmond WA.)...
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
This is proof that GPL warez are in trouble.
If they wanted to help their customers, they could indemnify them agaist IP claims. Wouldn't that be putting their money where their mouth is?
A million dollar legal fund for GPL open source developers? They wouldn't create that fund if there
weren't a serious possibility of suits happening. Would anyone want to work on GPL stuff with that possibility looming? What if the million dollars is exhausted before someone's suit goes to trial?
A million bucks won't buy much advertising, but a suit will buy a lot of publicity.
Young quick guys, stiking first, can keep the old slow guys very busy...
When has the game you've been watching EVER turned out to be the game they were playing in the biz arena?
W.G.
Look Ma, we finally found an idiot that believes that sco nonsense!
Hmmm, can we talk incessantly about this case instead? It certainly sounds like the courtroom scenes will be more eye-pleasing than anything we'll see in Red Hat vs. SCO.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
This is a good move by Red Hat given their continued push to be one of the high end corporate servers of Linux. An announcement like this immediately elevates them into the press and most likely elevates their stock price (which is what SCO's actions have been all about all along). This in turn makes them look more palatable to places that only by from big names.
One man's pink plane is another man's blue plane.
Already down 1.63.
We do not have a history of profitable operations. Our future SCOsource licensing revenue is uncertain.
w00t redh4t j00 r teh r0XX0r!!!!
Do they still have those USB triggers on ThinkGeek?
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
"The Fuck SCO Fund" or maybe "McBride For Prison Inmate Bitch 2004"
For a SWEET Publicity idea for SCO.
They and Metallica should get together an throw a "free benefit concert" for promoting "fair protections for intellectual property." They could send out mailers to their dwindelling fanbase, and invite critics to come too. And then just when the show is about to start Darl McBride and Lars could get in their matching gold plated limos and start running over the assembled crowd.
Let the games begin!! /throws head and sword on ground at feet of Mcbribe/
that my friend, is the sound of freedom!
"In less than an hour, [Geeks and Nerds] from here will join others from around the world, and you will be launching the largest [OS] battle in the history of [Nerd]kind. [Nerd]kind, that word should have new meaning for all of us today. We can't be consumed by our petty differences any more. We will be united in our common interest. Perhaps it's fate that today is the Fourth of [August], and you will once again be fighting for our freedom. Not from tyranny, oppression or persecution, but from annihilation. We're fighting for our right to live, to exist, and should we win the day, the Fourth of [August] will no longer be known as a [Geek and Nerd] holiday, but as the day when the world declared in one voice: 'We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive! Today we celebrate our Independence Day!'"
Thomas J. Whitmore
President of the United States of America
Area 51, Nevada
'Independence Day' (with the appropriate changes)
Sorry, I just had to. It was the first thing that came to mind.
Time to buy? Are you nuts? Sell now before it's too late!
This sig no verb.
There goes SCO's stock price... those sons of bitches... it was down by 15% at about 12:30pm PST... Here's the link... I check it daily.
...than SCO will ever manage.
(Sorry, just had... to... say... it... APT...)
This is quite interesting, and should impact SCO considerably. By initiating this action, Red Hat can enter the "discovery" phase, which will allow the lawyers (and developers?) to see the ALL of the code that SCO says infringes on their intellectual property.
The end result should be that Red Hat will be able to wipe away the FUD, and get down to the bottom of what SCO really owns. Assuming SCO owns anything, Red Hat can then begin work on removing that code. Also, if Red Hat wins, they will probably get monetary damages, which always helps.
Go Red Hat!
(Now I suppose I should actually buy the distro instead of downloading the ISO's...)
-Mark
I love it...
Ok everyone...you know the drill...
1) Sue SCO
if($outcome = "Win"){
print "2)Win\n3)profit";
} else {
die();
}
Hmm... maybe not
Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed "nucular" accelerator on his back.
Sig changed for readability by G.W.
Red Hat is too poor to be getting into a legal slug fest with a company that has literally transformed themselves into a litigation firm.
When, exactly was Caldera (now renamed SCO) NOT a litigation firm?
don't go crying for poor redhat, saying they haven't the money to go spending a million on a lawsuit.
they have $300+ million in the bank and are profitable... imagine that.
so, there's no need to go begging papa IBM for money or for a legal defense, considering it's redhat's own bottom line that's being impacted.
-anonymous, because i moderated this article already. oops.
Someone should set up a Paypal account for Red Hat...then encourage them to get off of RPMS and onto ebuilds. (he he he)
"To further protect the integrity of Open Source software and the Open Source community, Red Hat has established the Open Source Now Fund. The purpose of the fund will be to cover legal expenses associated with infringement claims brought against companies developing software under the GPL license"
I think the SCO suit is great for Redhat, but even better for the community is this legal fund. I don't know if it's non-profit, or how it works exactly, but ideally it would (and should) be a fund to help take care of any OSS-movement threatening lawsuits or legal issues. This is something Open Source has never had before, and that large corporations have always had. This may give OSS the support it needs to grow without threats from any company out to stop it -- like SCO. The way they describe it, it seems like something meant to be a "legal department" for Open Source.
It may just be me, but I think that's the bigger picture here.
"!"
What took them so long?
Good call, and right as Linuxworld begins.
This is good strategy - the Red Hat commando team strikes fast, while the IBM generals are assembling the tanks and heavy artillery for the follow on attack.
I cant stand a for-profit corporation seeking donations and charity.
If they collect 2 million, and only need 1.3 million for legal fees, the rest goes into execs pockets.
If this suit is a part of business, expense it as such. If not, then it's in the domain of the EFF or some other non-profit group to pursue it.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Once the SCO/IBM lawsuit is over, RedHat will be the first to cash in on the counter-suit. This means, IBM lawyers will do the work and RedHat will use that information to get some money from SCO. If they were to wait until IBM sues SCO, there wouldn't be anything left.
Smart move on RedHat's part. Let IBM do the dirty work, and then ride along for all the benefits.
Hopefully they'll set up a PayPal address so individuals can donate to the fund. I could easily see that $1M doubling in no time.
What Red Hat has also done (for the general public) is put a face on 'this Open Source movement'. And for now the general public will most likely see Red Hats.
This is also about Linux distributions competing among themselves. This might work well in relation to Red Hat PR.
You miss the entire point of using a free (not beer) OS - flexibility, versatility - the freedom to do what you like with lots of other, like-minded people helping. No business would use a free (beer) system if the only reason was to save a few hundred or thousand dollars. The issue is that SCO refuses to show us what was "stolen" from them so it can be fixed/replaced/licensed. And what about going after the end user...maybe, but they might be compelled to show that each user actually benefitted from, or even used, the infringing code, after all, most business users custom build their kernel, and may have disabled or omitted the offending code.
Faith is the very antithesis of reason, injudiciousness a critical component of spiritual devotion. Jon Krakauer
That according to Netcraft, http://www.sco.com runs on Linux :)
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.sco. com
Jonathan
The SCO case has already inspired the ire of the entire Linux community. It's even made Germany make SCO's claim completely null and void within its borders.
Considering that SCO is not doing well financially, is being countersued by IBM, and is still yet to provide concrete evidence, Red Hat might as well save its resources and stay out of this. Although it most certainly has a stake in the outcome of the argument, it's quite likely that their involvement will not bring about much change.
That said, I commend Red Hat for doing what they're doing and, at the very least, making explicit the sentiment in Linux community feels for SCO.
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you
Then you win. -- Ghandi
I've heard that so many times referring to Microsoft as "they". Now Linux is "they". The open source community is now to the "fighting" stage against SCO. That would mean that the next stage is SCO winning.
OK, but the slander is funded by Microsoft. After RedHat wins the lawsuit, what is to keep Gates & Co. from bribing another failing company to be their smear muscle?
What will Red Hat do with SCO's assets. ;-)
Quack, quack.
CWBYNEAL_FARTOFDOOM
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
somebody stood up and said "Yea? Well so'z your ol' man."
The moment somebody didn't roll over and play dead, they were screwed. The whole thing will fall apart with SCO not being able to defend itself against a civil damages counter-suit. The Linux will probably will probably start a class action suit against SCO demanding trade-lost and punitive damages and it may come to criminal proceedings with SCO's CEO finhgting to stay out of "Club Fed."
Then SCO's share holders will want to hang him by his SCrOtum because SCO's client base will get offers to move over to Linux for free and share price will free-fall.
Want a prediction? SCO doesn't survive until X-Mass.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
https://www.thelinuxreview.com/index.lxp
Robby Russell
PLANET ARGON
Robby on Rails
Ha. Starting at 1:30, the time the announcement was released, SCO's stock suddenly took a 15% nosedive! Maybe if a few other notable companies filed similar suits their stock would hit the ground? I know it likely means less than nothing in the long run, but it's a nice thought.
(Stolen sig) Remember: it's a "Microsoft virus", not an "email virus", a "Microsoft worm", not a "computer worm
Red Hat may win. That would prove that it is illegal to talk bad about your competetor. And then there is a legal precedent. The Microsoft can sue anyone who uses a dollar sign in place of an s when referring to them. Then /. is in trouble. No one can post anything bad about them.
All together now, say it slowly:
RPM is like DPKG
RPM is not like APT
there are other tools intended to work like APT with RPM, like apt-rpm, or urpmi, etc.
A solution to the problem with music today
Finally a linux company stood up for itself! SCO's behavior went unchecked for too long.
Free speech is getting expensive...
I'm not sure how this well play out for IBM. For all we know, they might have some slick plans of their own and would perfer others to stay out of the fray
You obviously don't understand the OSS movement. Red Hat makes extensive contributions into the OSS world. I'd advise some googling for you.
Free speech is getting expensive...
1. Buy shitloads of SCO stock and sell it short to Darl McBride
2. Sue SCO, watch SCO stock tank. Yeeha!
3. PROFIT!!!!
In Soviet Russia, Linux sues you!!!
This is a nice freshly crafted sig.
SCO is on the way to destruction. They have no chance to survive and the shareholders should make their time.
Even better news:
SCOX
compare the time on the PR notice with the start of the downward spiral...
plonk!
Mr. Bill I wish I had mod points for you, because that by far was one of the most +1 Insightful things I have seen on Slashdot in awhile.
RedHat has done some very great things for the Linux community. The GPL of the QT license is all due to them, and they were the only gnome player for the longest time.
This lawsuit with SCO is potentially another feather in their cap.
However...
It is pretty easy to show that RedHat doesn't care much about the Linux hobbiest community.
RedHat has to survive, granted, and that means money. Perhaps RedHat thinks that it used to waste money on a hobbiest market, but it is those users that have brought RedHat into the enterprise.
Now I bring SUSE and OpenBSD.
RedHat has to be in this fight.
/.er. RedHat is the flag bearer for Linux right now. That can change if the Linux culture turns against it. If RedHat does not defend Linux, people will remember that fact for a long time.
RedHat speaks, lives, and breathes GNU. They understand the real issues at steak in this fight, while the team of lawyers at IBM are looking at the cost benefits of fighting vs. settling.
If SCO wins it's a disruption (big but not fatal) for IBM. It's a death nell for RedHat.
IBM may have the deep pockets, but if the ruling went against Big Blue they could always resort to options that leave Linux hanging in the wind. IBM has the resources to build a new operating system from scratch if need be.
And then there's the culture of OSS developers to consider. If RedHat doesn't throw down at some point, they will never be forgiven be the likes of the average
They have enough pure cash on hand to buy SCO outright.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
whether Redhat will accept a settlement in SCO vouchers.
With the daily lawsuits against Microsoft, some big some little, or AT&T vs BSD, did people hold off buying DOS or Unix? No. So I think their advice is wrong, but it unfortunately holds sway over the IT managers. I think RH has thought this through carefully, as has IBM, and they are making their counter-move.
Yeah just because I have a different opinion makes me NOT understanding the Open Source movement. I understand it very fine been here for the past 10 years. But I am not a close eyed moron blindly following some stupid hype. You think you understood the Open Source movement, then I gonna tell you that RedHat knows it far better than both of us. Sure they give some stuff back to the community - BUT NOT ALL - they only win. Now if they want to give back to the Open Source community then really at least pay the REDHAT vs. SCO thing out of their own box. Not asking the community whom they owe their big company success for to help them.
I mean seriously what's the deal? It seems like they're mostly just speculating on the outcome of this trial thing..
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I have to say this. I hate Red Hat. Not the people. The distribution. RPM. Their whole idiotic file layout. Their stupid configuration tools. I used it for awhile, and I really do hate it.
But I don't hate the people working for them - there are a lot of really good people there. And I don't hate the company. As a corporation, it does some pretty dumb things occasionally, sure. And the buzzwordspeak is annoying ('...continue to realize the significant value that our Red Hat Linux platform provides' - wtf are they trying to say and why don't they just say it?) but all companies, for some unintelligible reason, seem to do that. I was a bit peeved when they C&D'd linuxiso, I must admit, but that turned out to have been a simple mistake by some simpleton in the legal office and was quickly rectified.
In the end, even though their system disgusts me and I will never willingly use it again, they pay some damn fine hackers to work on damn fine Free software, and despite all the buzzwordspeak they do seem to know what they're talking about when they use the word community.
So RedHat is alright by me. They're not bad folks.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=SCOX&d=c&k=c1&c=rhat, ^ixic&a=v&p=s&t=6m&l=on&z=m&q= l
Of course it's in Red Hat's best intereste! Why else would they get involved at all? You don't see Adobe or VAlve Software bringing in a lawsuit. Why? Because it is not in their business interests to get involved.
Businesses do not EVER fight for anything other than their own interests.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
AT: The SCO Group, Inc. Third-Quarter Financial Results Conference Call WHEN: Thursday, August 14, 2003, 9:00 a.m. Mountain Daylight Time. HOW: If you would like to participate in the live call, you may dial 1.800.811.0667 or 1.913.981.4901; Passcode: 452322. You may also join the call in listen-only mode via Web cast. The URL is listed at http://ir.sco.com/medialist.cfm .
This is a smart move on Red Hat's part. By seeking a declaration that Linux doesn't infringe SCO's IP rights, they largely wipe out the "no indemnification" FUD that's being spread.
This also has the advantage of forcing SCO to "put up or shut up" -- in the discovery process Red Hat can demand that SCO identify each and every Linux element that is claimed to infringe. This is going to take some time (litigation is slow) and SCO will probably ask for a protective order to preserve the alleged confidentiality of their code, but sooner or later this process will smoke them out.
Anyone for a round of "Spot the FUD"?
Do you now or have you at any time in the past worked for SCO?
Have you ever received a paycheck signed by an SCO employee or an SCO contractor?
Do you know the names of any SCO employees?
Have any of your job titles ever contained the words "business", "marketing", or "relations"?
Do you use Linux in a professional capacity, or only at home?
And so on...
The actual complaint, not linked from the story, can be found here.
I wonder if the primary purpose of the new fund would be to finance a class action suit by kernel developers against SCO for GPL violations? Think of it - Many individual developers could not afford to bring suit on their own against SCO, but they could if they were part of a class action suit funded by RedHat.
The wording is kind of vague, but that is what the announcement implies to me.An ounce of perception is worth a pound of obscure
This battle is really Microsoft vs. IBM, with SCO (and now Red Hat) as proxies. Neither SCO nor Red Hat has the resources to fight this battle, therefore the cash comes from M$ and IBM.
for consulting done for their law firm Seyfarth & Shaw?
I asked after billing my time done for consulting on the case of Monotype Corp. vs. Red Hat last year starting on Dec. 18. Submitted a bill at the first of the year, didn't hear anything for months. When I finally queried about this via e-mail, was told the law firm was waiting on payment from the insurance company first, so sent in a bill maked due net 30---still no response, so sent in a late notice via registered mail.
Suggestions?
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
SCO's argument in trying to collect license fees from Linux users and distributors is that a license will buy peace of mind and immunity from SCO lawsuits.
Anybody who gives SCO even $0.01 enters into a contract with said company, and invites being hauled off to Utah to defend against breach-of-contract suits.
It seems to me that the most effective way to fight the extortion (over and above what RedHat is doing) is to impress on potential extortees that paying off SCO is *not* a safe move for the risk-averse.
RedHat's fund appears to me a much better use of a
Linux user's spare change.
It is about time some company/someone did something serious about this. IBM's just standing there, unmovable, almost playing with SCO, whose efforts to attack them are like water off a duck's back. It's a bit like a cat playing with a mouse before it eats it. And after Novell's rather brief and quickly-dismissed effort, we have been left wondering, to an extent...
:)
And of course, the users who matter, businesses - at least some of them - have been getting scared shitless by the threat of litigation. In these uncertain economic times, who can blame them? Slashdotters may see through SCO's FUD, but we are rather a fringe group in society as a whole, and the average Pointy-Haired just sees "Lawsuit!" and thinks "Run."
Whether this be IBM-funded or a wholly Red Hat initiated effort (although the former seems far more likely, given the relationship between the two companies), it is much needed. Although the SCO FUD seems to have lessened somewhat in the past few days (I'm using that good ole indicator of Number of Slashdot Stories), the damage has been not inconsiderable.
And then the Open Source Now Fund - such a wonderful response to Microsoft's undertaking to underwrite any legal costs incurred by their customers as a result of similar disputes. The community was, I think, left reeling somewhat as to this rather clever attack on open source, an attack which exploited its distributed nature of development and limited accountability. Once again, a solution has been found. (I suppose, perhaps, Michael Robertson might have done something otherwise...)
Let's hope this whole mess is resolved reasonably quickly now. To be frank, questions ought to be asked of a country/legal system where a company can get away with such shocking behaviour for so long, but that, maybe, is for the aftermath...
iqu
I want to see the GPL litigated at least to an appeals court level. So far all we've seen on the legality and enforceability of the GPL are cases that get dismissed or the parties settle out of court. Nobody really knows how the GPL would stand up in a real Pier 6 brawl. I would like to see that test happen, and the sooner the better.
My biggest fear in the Open World is that the GPL will be held to be invalid in some way, shape or form and if that happens the greedheads will have a field day. If the provisions of the GPL are not enforceable - even after the original copyright holder is no longer around - we are all in some serious shit.
Hell, there are no rules here. We're trying to accomplish something. - Thomas Edison
Nothing to read here, now skim along.
The tables are starting to turn. Here is what we need to work on next:
1) Stop trolling about how pathetic RH is, and how they will fail
2) Actually support RH in this effort
- a) Purchase a copy of RH Linux -or-
- b) Donate to the new legal fund -or-
- c) both a and b
This is probably the catalyst that will get other companies on the legal train against SCO. IBM already has its work cut out for it in court, and RH can either help or hinder this cause. However, many companies have been hurt by SCO's slander, and they have the right to seek legal relief.
Anyway, I hope RH and IBM are coordinating on this. It would be terribly counterproductive for RH and IBM to be mutually interfering with each others' strategies.
Hey, if Apple gets their own section on Slashdot, why not a SCO section? There's more SCO news these days. :-)
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
Would it be possible/profitable to purchase put options on SCO in anticipation of thier mighty fall?
I say more power to anybody who fights those who would try to steal the good faith contributions of such a great group of people for a limited and selfish financial gain. Hell, I don't even use Linux on account of I'm a big dumb jock with a closet fetish for Open Source. But shit, more power to you guys.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
If you read the headline correctly, it actually says, "Complaint launched against SCO claims, Red Hat pledges $1MM to create fund to protect Linux"
That's *one million million" -- one heck of a pledge, and more than enough to handle SCO, the slashdotting, and anything else that might come up.
Well, until we find out that they were talking about "penguin dollars", not US currency.
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
They were waiting for Linux World. Duh...
The legal fund is an excellent idea, money in the bank to immediately summon lawyers and lay the groundwork for a proactive defense the next time this happens.
What a great day!
Wow, a lucrative publishing contract! I don't have to be evil anymore. --Meteor
Seriously paypal address?
Red Hat is in a much better position to show that the SCO nuisance lawsuit has hurt it's business. While IBM could eventually do this too in a counter suit, Red Hat suing now can provide injunctive relief against the SCO FUD tactics.
I think this is a great move. Furthermore it will speed up the process of getting the street thug Darl McBride into a courtroom, get this process over, and get the whole board of SCO up on securities fraud charges where they belong. Maybe the discovery process will even lead to Redmond, who knows?
You are forgetting something here, SCO is bashing linux, not Red Hat (directly). Linux community is the one on the line. Its not just RedHat's fight, its our fight. And they are putting a cool million dollars into that. Also, they are not just asking the community to help, they are also asking companies which benefit from linux to help out.
;)
And since when is RedHat such a big bad wolf? Just because they found a way to make money of OSS does not make them bad, makes them smart. Even if you don't like them, they are part of the community, just like you, but probably contributed a tad more.
Free speech is getting expensive...
I just put down $40 at Fry's for the basic Red Hat 9 box, and $60 for a year of Red Hat Network membership.. seems like a real bargain, now.
Go Red Hat, go!
- jon
Ganymede, a GPL'ed metadirectory for UNIX
In addition to paying for their own court case, Red Hat has just set up a fund to defend other free software companies and contributors and paid one million dollars into it. Where the hell do you get the idea that they're not paying their own legal fees, or what is your problem?
Companies make all sorts of confidential deals over thses sorts of things. Red Hat is taking a public position, but that doesn't necesasrily mean they're paying the bills themselves or even at all. It might be IBM, or it might be someone else who doesn't want a public role at all.
IBM's certainly ahead of this, and IIRC IBM's due to file their response to SCO's amended complaint this week.
Given how SCO's stock price responded, this looks like it may be the opening shot of a legal shock-and-awe campaign that's targeted at SCO's stock price.
I can dream, can't I? (and it could be true!)
As I've watched this play out a few things have always sat in my mind.
I never believed, for a second, that any lawsuit with SCO vs. IBM would have ever truly materialized.
When the word about this new "licensing program" where you would buy a copy of SCOs software and SCO would quietly put you on a "safe" list of those who would not be sued surfaced, this kinda solidified that hypothesis.
They'd run a large scale FUD campaign (which we've been watching for weeks) and *frightened* corporate CIOs would either pay up or migrate from Linux to something else.
Someone finally coming out and suing them in a campaign to end this mess seems to be the only way out. Hopefully there are some damages involved. Corporations and others alike need to stop using our legal system as a money-making scam.
If part of ones business model is to hire a bunch of lawyers and extort money out of individuals, as SCO, DirecTV, the RIAA and others are attempting, they need to be sued and have their bottom lines burned to a crisp.
I don't know about the rest of you but I'm putting my money where my mouth is. It won't be a million bucks, but they'll get a donation.
I'm not a personal fan of Red Hat Linux, but this is starting to persuade me.
"God is dead!" - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead!" - God
Just be sure to drive its stock price down to nothing so the insiders won't reap any more benefits.
Of all the companies throughout history, I can only think of one that can match or surpass old Ma Bell (Bell Labs) in patents, and intellectual property experience...IBM. Big Blue may have been the whipping boy, that all the 80's star companies fought against, but it still stands high in the lists of innovation. IBM still possesses the lawyers to protect those new gizmos. The conservative gray flannel suits from Armonk, NY are legion. SCO may have a reputation for being a litigator's wet dream, but I would place my bet on IBM for sheer experience in the courtroom, defending their IP (in this case, acting as proxy for the Open Source community.)
So now that Red Hat is standing up for "the community", they're our fair-haired hero? What happened to all the "Red Hat is the Microsoft of Linux" comments?
Bah.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Nuff said...
Quoted from the Miami Herald:
4 56 523.htm
"Linux is distributed under the GNU General Public License, which leaves users - not distributors - liable for any intellectual property issues that might arise. McBride often refers to this as the "hot potato" of Linux."
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/6
Is that true? I doubt it but I'm not familar with the GPL myself.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
we might not all like redhat (the distro), but you gotta admit, redhat (the company) just did what everybody that is against sco has been wanting the day that this whole nightmare started...
GO REDHAT!
GO LINUX!
GO OPEN SOURCE!
Why did I lurk so long before registering for a Slashdot account? I could have had a Slashdot ID of less than 100000.
I've never had time to watch that show, but now thanks to your analogy I *know* that show really stinks. Thanks for the time saver - I now I won't have to watch either Babbling on five or this SCO 'vaporsuit' anymore, since their basically the same thing!
[Now, I'm off to lift my le... Um, visit... at another place.]
That's all this world has come to. Those who are the puppets, and those who are the puppet masters. Sorry, but this time it comes with strings attached.
Life is not for the lazy.
I didn't see anyone pointing this out yet - Microsoft changed their licensing recently to say that if there are IP issues with Microsoft's software, they will defend their customers against SCO-like actions. They also started mentioning that this is something that OSS companies don't do.
:-).
With this fund, that particular "advantage" of Microsoft's solutions will be minimized (it won't go completely away, until the fund reaches ~40 billion
Interestingly enough, the press release says OpenSource Now is for GNU GPL code. Is it excluding other licenses, say public domain, BSD, OSL or even the GNU LGPL and FDL? I can understand focusing on copyleft, but not exclusively GPL.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
Put Red Hat and SCO in a cage and run it on pay-per-view...
"Let's Get It ON!"
In the Portland, Ore area and like card games? Check out: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portlandgames/
Where do I sign up?
It's about time someone takes it to these bastards. There is more than enough evidence that they are simply out to FUD companies like Red Hat into non-profitability.
They present no proof, and yet demand to be taken seriously. I've gotten tons of usage out of my RH servers here - even having paid a pittance for the software. I'm with ya RH. Where's my checkbook?
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
I get all my models from GM. (General Models)
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
This announcement may be crap. DI they wirtes SOC's mama a note? If this were a real complaint, wouldn't they say *where* they filed it?
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
Red Hat moves where IBM is stumbling!
Go, Red Hat!
Take the fight to the enemy!
AND it's good business. Now who looks like an industry leader in the press today. It ain't IBM.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Consequently, FedEx has been talking to HP about buying the software through them rather than RedHat.
I'm sure that there are other instances of Redhat's getting hurt by all of the garbage SCO is spewing. I would guess that at least one reason they're doing this is they can't afford to wait any longer for someone else (IBM) to.
With this new GPL legal fund, /.ers can finally convert their rage into something tangible and hopefully painful for SCO. This fight can very well be a measure of strength for the open source and Linux community. When the dust settles, we will see the validity of the GPL tested and the fanaticism of Linux users. This is undoubtedly a major turning point.
Give me the PayPal address and time to throw some punches back! Time to give back to the community.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
.. the goatse.cx guy?
Where does is say there is a legal action ? The words "COURT, LAW SUIT, TRAIL, LAWYER ..."
don't appear ANYWHERE in the news release.
All is said is that a COMPLAINT was FILED ?
Where was it filed? In the SCO TRASH CAN ?
Well I took the opportunity to purchase additional entitlements to RHN. Go Red Hat !!
The RedHat folk aren't stupid: they wouldn't enter this fray unless they were reasonably sure of success.
Likely, but I don't think the SCO folks would have started this if they weren't reasonably sure of success.
Legal documents are surprisingly entertaining:
SCO's illicit strategy is transparent - make loud public claims about alleged intellectual property rights, provide no detail (since it does not exist), and hope to use the time-honored technique of creating fear, uncertainty and doubt to slow the growth and use of LINUX, damage the business of LINUX provides such as Red Hat, coerce unwarrented fees from LINUX users by threats of litigations, and, upon information and belief, even create enough nuisance value to be acquired while running up the price of SCO's stock in the short term, thereby creating various financial opportunities to wrongfully enrich the originators of this scheme.
Banks skim a percentage off credit card donations as well. What donation method would you suggest?
Will I retire or break 10K?
And if it goes before a Judge who doesn't understand the technical parts of the case, or if one side pissed him off (yeah, in an Ideal World [TM] the Judge would be impartial), then the outcome might surprise you.
The system is intimidating to most outsiders (read: non-lawyers), but you don't have to know every aspect of the laws to make a case-you just have to know the procedures and make your case well, and the rest is up to the judge and jury.
-cp-
SCO now has to counter with another wild claim or suit in order to undo the damage. SCO has made it quite clear that it's a PR battle and therefore must respond, lest the share price and FUD wane.
And of course the move will necessarily be even more preposterous than what they've already done, as they've already used up all the plausible moves they had and then some.
They've thrown their hat over the wall, and no mad German scientist is gonna stop them now...
Fuck Slashdot
If you look at the competitive space where Linux is growing up, you see two kinds of companies striving for business.
One kind of company sees the writing on wall. These companies realize what FLOSS is, and have redefined themselves under this new reality. These companies are usually content to compete on a level playing field in this respect. They are all trying to incorporate Linux and Open Source into their business, with various degrees of success. Most companies fit into this group: IBM, Novell, Oracle, SGI, Dell, etc.
The other kind of company will settle for no less than complete domination of the market on their own terms: Sun and Microsoft. Sun is interesting because it wants to play both sides of the fence, but I gather they would rather NOT share in the Linux goodness with their competitors if they can help it.
Microsoft will sit and deny that Linux is even viable until they are completely engulfed by it. Witness the Internet.
These enemies of Linux and Free/Open Source have discovered their anti-Linux efforts to be futile. According to leaked Microsoft documents, smear campaigns were in fact counter-productive. The interesting conclusion was that the best attack on Linux was a legal attack. Apparently Microsoft's market research shows that fear of being sued is the biggest deterrent to Linux deployments.
So this is their trump card. If they can stir up fear of litigation, they can point at Linux and say, "Look, no indemnification there! Buy us instead." SCO is just a pawn in this gambit - I don't think anyone expects them to survive the play.
By providing a legal fund to developers of GPL software, Red Hat begins to undermine these tactics used by Microsoft and Sun.
I like this fund because it appears to benefit the community as a whole and not just Red Hat customers. I sincerely hope that other companies pick up on this idea, and decide to contribute to the fund.
If anything, this gives us an idea of how we can provide indemnification to Linux users in general. Perhaps a general fund for all Linux _users_ would be appropriate, with the option to purchase a renewable policy against it (from a community run non-profit group). The community could evaluate claims against this "insurance" and assign legal resources to litigate it if needed. At any rate, owning a policy would guarantee a level of financial coverage. Non-policy owners could also get help, depending on circumstances and the merits of their case.
I see this as a way for the politicaly motivated community members to contribute where they might not be able to give code.
"You can choose the open-source lifestyle Linux kernel or the Solaris kernel. We will indemnify you on the Solaris kernel. You'll have to go ask Red Hat [Inc.] if they will indemnify you on Linux." July 21, 2003 McNealy Weighs In on Linux, Unix, Sun
.... maybe their aswer would is YES.
By Eric Lundquist - Eweek.com
hmmmm
Actually, SCO's stockholders will likely be the ones to foot the bill.
So should I shed a tear for them or what? I bet current stockholders are
fully aware of their gamble. And they enabled SCO and its employees to
sell stock at inflated prices. So they're to blame that SCO already made
a profit out of this farce. And they provided additional funds for SCOs
lawsuits.
You should have bought Red Hat stock instead; that way you both win!
Am I wrong to assume that now that there is a lawsuit filed by Red Hat against SCO they will be able to get disclosure on the illusive IP issues?
Check out page 2, paragraphs 4 and 5:
http://lwn.net/images/ns/rh-complaint.pdf
I hope that SuSE will kick in a few bucks, too. They've got just as much at stake here, and like RedHat, they do business with IBM.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Now that someone is taking them to court (where I believe SCO will lose hugely), how long will it be before the SCO officers start to sell their stock short, in order to cash again after their "sell ourselves many thousands of stock at $0.66 each, then immediately sell it for $12.00" money making game?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
looks like RH hast started this whole "SCO case" in the first place, to just now be able to fund this nice, worth 1M$ organization... like writing a virus and then you release an anti-vir. software. Sounds like a good businnes plan to me 8)
But seriously, as for now looks to me like the war is just started. now is the time when "the faith of Linux" is to be decided. after that you we can become like amiga is now. once everybody was using it, it was hot stuff to get, now it is gone, I wonder how its market share looks like now, but can bet once looked cool. And do you know how the Linux market share looks like now? And what if tomorrow it looks like amiga's?
Check this out, according to Yahoo, Wall street dropped SCO stock $2 per share almost coinciding with this announcement. Obviously Wall Street is paying attention on this one right now.
Now if only the SEC could get involved.
Red Hat defends its position by using its own money to sue a company which threatens Linux- threats without any hard evidence that their accusations are true. At the same time, Red Hat raises a fund to help other open-source projects in need of assistance should they be dragged to court.
Red Hat has made lots of money through other people's work, just like the FSF wants it to be, because it means that Red Hat also has to contribute back to the community, allowing others to make use of improvements by Red Hat to various open-source software packages!
Sounds like a win-win situation to me. Maybe not to ACs who are either Linux newbies who have completely misunderstood the "free" part (free as in freedom, not beer) and are trying to prove their "l33tness" by posting nonsense on Slashdot. Or ACs who are Microsoft shills or just plain trolls with nothing of value to contribute with.
Take your pick - you come across as a fool either way. No wonder you are posting as an AC. You dare not even stand behind your own opinion!
Clever signature text goes here.
The GPL of the QT license is all due to [Red Hat]...
:)
Bzzt, sorry, it was Joseph Carter (knghtbrd) of the Debian project who did the most work to solve that situation. RH mostly ignored KDE, since they had Gnome. Debian was the most interested in being able to offer and support both.
Also, a lot of people (including, I think, Trolltech) took Debian's criticisms of the QT license a lot more seriously than RH's, since RH was perceived as having a conflict of interest (due to the fact that Gnome was perceived as their baby).
and they were the only gnome player for the longest time.
Again, Debian has supported Gnome from day one. They even donated some of their meager funds in the early days to help get Gnome off the ground.
Red Hat are good guys, no question. They've done a lot for the community, and they've been surprisingly willing to cooperate with Debian, who would appear to be a competitor in some sense. There was even one RH developer (Havoc) who was (for a while) a major Debian developer too. And RH never objected to him sharing his time between the two. This is clearly a company that gets what FLOSS is all about. RH deserves kudos and applause for a lot of the stuff they've done. But not for the stuff they didn't do.
why not a SCO section? There's more SCO news these days
Uh, because Apple will be making the news a lot longer than SCO will be?
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
Obviously Red Hat has been paying attention to the arguments made on /.
"SCO itself, however, has been publicly distributing the LINUX operating system, including the LINUX code, for at least five years. Regcognizing the inconsistency between its claim of "trade secret" missapropriation and its public disclosures of the same allegedly secret information, in May 2003 SCO public stated it would no longer disribute LINUX. However, that statement too is false. SCO continues to offer LINUX source code for public downloading today- more than four months after SCO sued IBM for disclosing UNIX "trade secrets" that SCO coninues to disclose itself."
http://lwn.net/images/ns/rh-complaint.pdf
SCO sue's YOU! Oh wait . . . . .
SCOX
They have a long way to fall before the whole "sue everyone and let god sort em out" strategy can be shown to be a bad thing.
I'm all in favor of them taking that fall, but let's not get all excited over a lousy 9% lemming sell off (that could easily be reverersed the next time Darl opens his big fat mouth.)
>Interestingly enough, the press release says OpenSource Now is for GNU
>GPL code. Is it excluding other licenses, say public domain, BSD, OSL
>or even the GNU LGPL and FDL? I can understand focusing on copyleft,
>but not exclusively GPL.
>
>
Maybe supporters of the public domain, BSD, OSL and other licenses need to get off their *LAZY ASSES* and *CONTRIBUTE SOMETHING TO THE CAUSE* instead of moaning and bitching about the GPL supporters who are *ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING*
that they have to waste the money on this BS instead of what they do best--developing F/OSS.
--AC
...and that's a pity, because, again, that's the side were the money is made.
STFU McNealy. We heard yuo the first time.
Watching Cowboy Bebop in my jammies, eating a bowl of Shreddies.
Quo usque tandem abutere, SCO, patientia nostra?
[Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
Well there is a big difference between us. I wrote anonymously. You on the otherhand are an offensive fucking fucktard. So what counts more ?
SuSE needs to jump in on this lawsuit instead of coattailing it. Sure, they helped out in the German market, but the German goverment was going to side with them regardless (and the German legal system was automatically hostile to SCO's claims). The big enchelada (sic) is the U.S. market. So SuSE needs to jump in asap because they have just as much to lose as Red Hat does. I can understand Mandrake not wanting to get involved (ie. a direct legal suit against SCO) since they are on such shaky financial ground but they also need to file a friend of the court brief on behalf of the merits of Red Hat's complaint. SCO should also be expelled from UnitedLinux. Its too bad Sun has an interest in SCO's success, because StarOffice/Open Office certainly could use the spiritual help of that OSS legal fund.
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
(emphesis and spelling mistakes mine
So
I get the feeling that while SCO and MS (if MS is at all to blame for funding) were playing Chess, someone at Red Hat and IBM (if IBM is at all to blame for backing Red Hat) were practicing GO.
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
$12.08. See here.
This sig no verb.
Remember about 10 years ago, when Quattro Pro 4 "infringed" or "did something wrong" (IANAL) by running a competing spreadsheet's macros directly instead of interpreting them? (Lotus 1-2-3 or Excel?) I still remember PC Magazine's take on the situation -- basically, it was unlikely action would be taken against individual users of Quattro Pro 4.
Now, IBM is supposed to have "infringed" by inserting code it didn't have the rights to, and SCO is coming after users (at least the big corps that track purchases and don't want legal hassles).
Ten years ago, AFAIK, it was unthinkable to come after innocent users who didn't know their software "infringed". Now, SCO is making this the entire reason for their existence. SCO's desperation and their sleazy lawyers are a dangerous combination.
P.S. The day SCO dies, I will applaud even louder than the day Qusai and Uday Hussein died.
1. Novell buys Ximian.
2. Redhat sues SCO and wins, but goes bankrupt during trial.
3. Novell buys Redhat and merges it with the remnants of SCO/Caldera.
4. A GNU/LSB compliant United Linux is formed with Redhat/Caldera, SuSE/IBM, Mandrake. Debian joins after RPM is replaced by DPKG/APT.
5. ???
6. Profit.
Just after brief reading http://lwn.net/images/ns/rh-complaint.pdf I have opinion - court may refuse to process this case. This is because most of complaint talks about "Linux" but in legal world only "Linux" itself or empowered person can sue SCO. In legal meaning "RedHat" is nobody but some third person from street and can't sue SCO for "Linux". If "RedHat" is hurt, this is OK but current claim speaks mostly about "Linux" and this is not OK. I am not native Engish speaker nor lawyer, so I can be wrong either.
http://no.spam.ee/~tonu/
This may sound redundant, but I don't care. RedHat did not have to do anything at all, they did something that nobody else WOULD do. Not the FSF, not Debian, not even IBM(yet...). If you think RedHat still owes you something...you can go fuck yourself. RedHat is doing what needs to be done for the entire Linux(and OSS) community.
As of 10/06/03, I hate COBOL developers.
What are you ? Some sort of gayass task force for RedHat ? How much did they pay you ?
I expect this sounds like a flame or something, but I'm just pointing out something that you might like to be aware of. The company's name is Red Hat, two words, not RedHat. More than just a matter of spelling, getting someone's name right is polite and I can tell you have goodwill towards Red Hat so I'm sure you'd rather know.
This is exactly what was needed, now lets hope they don't back off, and keep breathing down SCO's neck.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
Just compare executive salaries in SCOX and RHAT This explains a lot :)
http://no.spam.ee/~tonu/
Redhat/NBC - August 4, 2003
The Open Source Now Fund will fund the OSAA (Open Source Association of America). This non-profit organization's primary mission will be to seek out and prosecute all individuals and organizations that do not respect copyrights and SHARE GNU software. The OSAA will be directed by an independent committee with consisting of leading law experts.
President and CEO - Col. John "Hannibal" Smith
Chief Legal Counsel - Sergeant Bosco "B.A" Baracus
Chief Financial Office - Captain "Howlin Mad" Murdock
Certified Ladies Man - Lieutenant Templeton "Face" Peck
This crime action comedy drama with storylines ripped from the headlines will debut on Tuesday's at 8:00 PM on NBC.
True only up to a certain point. Both these companies have sufficient assets to fund this litigation IMHO. I tried cases for a long time and there's an old sying:
A lawyer is as good as his case.
Great lawyers with lousy facts will loose almost every time to a mediocre lawyer with great facts on his side. However, neither of these companies are going to court with inadequate representation. Of that you can be sure.
The really interesting thing to watch here will be the discovery phase. Redhat will be able to investigate any potential micorsoft involvement in this whole soap opera. If there is evidence that SCO and microsoft improperly colluded in spreading this FUD, microsoft could be dragged into the case as a party defendant under a civil conspiracy theory. Then watch the fireworks fly.
From: http://news.google.com/url?q=http://www.forbes.com /2003/08/04/cz_dl_0804linux.html
/. ? :)
"Linux geeks howled a bit, but then wrote off SCO as a bunch of sleazebags and went back to playing live-action roleplaying (LARP) games in their mothers' basements, or whatever it is they do when they're not writing device drivers and complaining about clueless end users.
But then SCO started making noise about suing Linux customers too, unless they paid licensing fees to SCO. Suddenly the joke wasn't so funny anymore. "
I think this guy reads
An important unstated question is "How do private persons who support the basic legality of Linux contribute to the 'Open Source Now' Fund?" The vociferousness of the support (for Linux and the open-source movement) indicated by writers in Slashdot articles suggests that tens of thousands of private persons would be happy to contribute $100 in the legal battle against SCO.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030804/lam110_1.html
SCO's CEO threatend to respond:
l
Of course, we will prepare our legal response as required by your
complaint. Be advised that our response will likely include
counterclaims for copyright infringement and conspiracy.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030804/lam110_1.htm
The hacker/IT community is significantly underemployed. Which means we may not have a lot of money to spare. D'ya suppose SCO is counting on that?
My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
"Sir, Maverick Re-Engaged"
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
http://www.forbes.com/2003/08/04/cz_dl_0804linux.h tml [forbes.com]
"Linux geeks howled a bit, but then wrote off SCO as a bunch of sleazebags and went back to playing live-action roleplaying (LARP) games in their mothers' basements, or whatever it is they do when they're not writing device drivers and complaining about clueless end users"
I think they meant MMORPG but hey, these are suits at Forbes, right?
But second, could someone explain to an ignorant European why all these companies are incorporated in Delaware? I thought Red Hat was in North Carolina somewhere and SCO/Caldera were in Utah?
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Forgive me if this is up here somewhere already, but I ran a search through the replies and didn't see it. This is SCO's amusing response, lifted off Yahoo's biz section - I would imagine this would actually be admissible as evidence of some of Red Hat's claims! (Particularly regarding the last two sentences.)
Matthew J. Szulik
CEO
RED HAT, INC.
1801 Varsity Drive
Raleigh, NC 27606
Dear Matthew,
Attached is the letter I discussed with you during our July 31, 2003 telephone conversation. Instead of actually sending the letter, I thought it was best to telephone you and speak in person to see if we could resolve the issues between our companies short of litigation. We left the conversation with a preliminary agreement to meet and continue our discussions further.
To my surprise, I just discovered that your company filed legal action against The SCO Group earlier today. You, of course, mentioned nothing of this during our telephone conversation. I am disappointed that you were not more forthcoming about your intentions. I am also disappointed that you have chosen litigation rather than good faith discussions with SCO about the problems inherent in Linux.
Of course, we will prepare our legal response as required by your complaint. Be advised that our response will likely include counterclaims for copyright infringement and conspiracy.
I must say that your decision to file legal action does not seem conducive to the long-term survivability of Linux.
Yours truly
Darl C. McBride
President & CEO
Any other Linux companies are in a similar boat. Companies like SuSE and Mandrake come to mind.
I'm wondering if there's a queue quietly forming...
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
"SCO did not respond to Red Hat's letter {requesting that SCO explain the bases for its allegations regarding Linux}, except to make a telephone call seeking to have Red Hat pay for an unneeded UNIX license."
Darl: Hi, is Matt around?
Operator: Matt who?
Darl: Umm, I'm not real sure how to pronounce it... Matt, uh, SSS-Zulick?
Operator: Hold on...
(telephone ringing)
Darl: Chris, can you believe these fuckers are suing us?
Chris Sontag: Well, you know, once we get into court and show them what we showed the analysts under DNA-
Darl: Chris, you're an idiot. Shut up.
Female Voice: Hello, you've reached the office of Matthew Szulick. How can I help you?
Darl: Uh, yeah, is Matt in?
Matt's Admin. Asst.: I'm not sure. I can check for you. May I ask who's calling?
Darl: Yeah, this is, uh, Darl McBride. From SCO?
Admin: Please hold.
(Muzak)
Darl: Chris, I'm gonna put this on speaker for a moment.
(pause)
Isn't that the IBM corporate song?
Chris: No... I don't think so. It's "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head", isn't it?
Male Voice: Matt here.
Darl: (fumbles with speakerphone switch) Hey, Matt, how are you? It's Darl McBride here, from SCO.
Matt: Yeah, Darl, what do you want?
Darl: Look we got your letter here...
Matt: Uh huh
Darl:
Matt: What did you have in mind?
Darl: Well, I've got this Unix license I could sell you real cheap, just between friends, I mean, hey, we're both CEO's here...
(click)
Darl: Matt? Matt, are you still there?
...You can have any model you want as long as she's black??
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
Divide and conquer...
Now that the RedHat pushers are fighting each other, they'll topple themselves without any further help from M$...
It's a shame somewhat that you can't revoke the gpl from asshole companies like SCO, then you could use the DMCA to shut them down since they are still distributing gpl software.
Ignore. This post is to erase an incorrect mod point.
(I had selected "+1 FUNNY" but an inadvertant keystroke on the down arrow changed this to "-1 OVERRATED", before I changed focus away from the moderate category dropdown box. Suggestion: Confirm moderations before the are committed.)
It should be de facto that if you lose a lawsuit, you must cover the cost of the defending party's legal fees. You'd see a lot less of this "suing for profit".
Editors: Enough legal coverage! It will be a very extended suit. Just tell us the result in however many years that takes.
"Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
Screw Companies Over
SCO System V for Linux
Uh... I just ran into this while browsing SCO's site. It seems to contain more vague threats and accusations, to the tune of "everyone using Unix apps under Linux has pirated SCO's libraries."
Does anyone know what this is about?
My bicyles
The original news story has been updated
I have no signature
That scum-suckin' Darl McBride makes me MAD! I pity da fool. Oooh, I pity da fool!
Microsoft's VP of Customer Service is Helen Waite. If you are having problems with their products go to Helen Waite.
disclaimer: this post may contain spelling errors and grammatical anomalies. read at own risk.
if companies make frivilous claims in court and lose they should pay for the court costs of the other party. unfortunately degree of frivilousness is hard to judge. what im trying to say is dont spend millions of lawyers when you can buy a boat.
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
dmca class.
Just a note: a jury decides the facts of what happened. Did SCO offer such-and-such a file on such-and-such a date? That's a question of fact.
A judge decides questions of law. Does the GPL bind SCO under the facts as the jury decided them? A judge decides that.
That means most of the interesting legal questions will be decided by a judge, not by the jury.
No it was two 500megaton bombs.
OK, so all the employed geeks send money (or buy some GPL products from Red Hat or anybody else), and all the unemployed geeks help out with the code, the documentation, the packaging, et cetera.
Takes all kinds of stuff to win a war and we are at war.
that is a very interesting FAQ
the history of the world
I've been a redhat user since 1995. Redhat has always done the right thing with respect to open source, GPL, supporting developers, filings and testimony in the MS antitrust trial, etc.
Thanks once again Redhat! I'm a rhn subscriber and we use quite a bit of redhat at work.
Kudos to Redhat for doing what the FSF should have already done. Now's the time to give money to Redhat or you may end up giving money to SCO instead. After years of free Linux use, I'm inclined to donate for it's future.
Maybe SCO, being the obvious scum sucking thieves that they are, actually took a piece of GNU code, copied it, changed a few lines, and are now trying to claim they wrote the code first.
There is no reason at all to think they are incapable of comitting this kind of felony.
I suggest that we start this as a rumour; there is nothing wrong with simply posing it as a question, just like Johnny Cochran did in the OJ trial ("have you read the entire manual for this DNA sequencer machine?"). Merely asking the question puts doubt in peoples minds, exactly as SCO has done.
Ugh. Truly terrible in every possible sense. Have a +1 Funny.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Giving property rights to people/corporations/whatever is granting monopoly. So what's the difference? What's the difference between my corporation (let's pretend I have one :) ) buying a road and park area vs Microsoft getting patent rights?
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
Never confuse feeling with thinking.
Red Hat's market capitalization is overvalued. I have nothing again Red Hat but it cearly isn't a 1billion company. Granted, mkt value is based on future prospects and hype but it is still too high IMO...
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
"Hey if we could get $10 for every Linux user that hates SCO.. we would be rich".
Be advised that our response will likely include counterclaims for copyright infringement and conspiracy.
What conspiracy? From all that can be read into this it sounds like Red Hat is doing this on their own. Any claim of conspiracy would have to be substantiated.
But, just in case there is a conspiracy, where do I sign up?
"Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury, SCO's accusers would certainly want you to believe my client was lieing about their software patents and copyrights, and they make a good case. Hell, I almost felt pity myself. But Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider.
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk who carried a gun and ran from the mob. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it. That does not make sense. Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor with a bunch of two-foot-tall Ewoks. That does not make sense. But more important, you have to ask yourself what does this have to do with this case.
Nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case. It does not make sense. Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major software company and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and Gentlemen I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense.
And so you have to remember when you're in that jury room deliberating and conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No. Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury it does not make sense. If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit.
I know he seems guilty. But ladies and gentlemen this is Chewbacca. Now think about that for one minute. That does not make sense. Why am I talking about Chewbacca when a companies future is on the line? Why? I'll tell you why. I don't know. It doesn't make sense. If Chewbacca does not make sense you must acquit. Here look at the monkey , look at the silly monkey.
The defense rests."
We substituted the coffee Slashdot normally drinks with "Sandoz Crystals", Lets see if they notice the difference
I'll donate money for this though.
Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!
sorry if someones already pointed to it...4 76
http://ir.sco.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=115
Are you a part of the Red Hat conspiracy?
Cheers,
Ian C.
"You'll all be home for Christmas".
Isn't that what they always say about every bloody and protracted conflict?
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
the word is "hobbyist"!
Redhat is injured by SCO's actions, so they are suing to get compensation for that damage. They couldn't care less about the outcome of lawsuit between IBM and SCO. It's possible that IBM violated their contract and have to pay $$$, but SCO has to pay $$$ for illegally harassing SCO users. In the same fashion, IBM doesn't get involved in any disputes between IBM and other companies, especially its competitors. Capitalism at work, good or bad.
The FSF's crack legal eagle Eben Moglen hides behind his keyboard, firing off snippy articles saying that SCO allegedly smell of poo. Then disclaims them. Fucking pussweed.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Linux Brings In $1 Billion in Revenue for IBM
This was reported on Slashdot. Additional stories: 1 2 3 4
Why do you think he just made up the number? You don't know, so noone else does either?
Put identity in the browser.
has to settle, perhaps they can offer RH stock options;-)
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
I predict you will die alone, in a corner and clutching a piece of cheap porn.
Awesome. Maybe after the trial Red Hat and SCO can rub both of their one-dollar bills together and split on a Big Mac.
Agreed. And it may be worse than that too. It's not a good idea to bring a lawsuit on a point of principle, without really needing to. Among other reasons, if some procedural glitch happens (or you run out of cash) and the suit aborts, then it can look as if you lost the point of principle -- without really needing to. Also, it's the plaintiff that has to prove his case -- which is the reason for the old adage that the position of defendant is stronger.
... contribute code to GNU/Linux, this helps *everyone* who uses Open Source, including Redhat. They are free to focus on their paying customers, while everyone benefits from peoples contributions, after all, this is *our* OS.
SCOs posturing is irrelevant to GNU/Linux, which is bigger than any single corporation.
I am sick tired of some people equatting Sun with MS.
Sun has contributed to OSS, they were perhaps the first UNIX company to move towards providing FLOSS software to their users.
So tell us, enlighten us, what has Sun done against FLOSS apart to try to compete fairly or use it to enhance its own products?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
What is the Linux community doing appart from whining?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
>>I am also disappointed that you have chosen litigation rather than good faith discussions...
This from a company who's only possible sources of income are related to suing, or threatening to sue everybody.
>>I must say that your decision to file legal action does not seem conducive to the long-term survivability of Linux
This from the company that has been bashing Linux non-stop for months now, and who plans to eliminate Linux as it now known.
>>Be advised that our response will likely include counterclaims for copyright infringement and conspiracy
Gosh, I thought Darl hated all that nasty litigation. Conspiracy? Sort of like Microsoft and Sun secretly funding Scox's anti-linux FUD campaign? Or Sco's actions being dictated by Canopy Group?
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030804/lam110_1.html
It links to a non-existant page. Is there another source for what you were pointing to?
They give me a reliable GNU/Linux destribution. I can't ask for much more!
Free speech is getting expensive...
I'll respond later... don't feel like it now...
I took your test. I took that test before so I might be biased (but I think I got a similar score as before). My stance is:
Left-Liberal
Left-Liberals prefer self-government in personal matters and central decision-making on economics. They want government to serve the disadvantaged in the name of fairness. Leftists tolerate social diversity, but work for economic equality.
Your Personal Self-Government Score is 90%.
Your Economic Self-Government Score is 0%.
I think I am where I think I am (although I have a feeling that I am probably a bit more liberatarian).
That test, although seemingly simple, is actually accurate (at least from my impression).
Where are you placed? I'm guessing it's liberatarian-right, near the border between centrist and conservative. My guess for you is 60% personal self-got, 80% economic self-govt...
There is also another test which I like (I'll see if I can dig it up)...
RAM
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
You sure are a liberatarian lol :) Check out this test...i ndex.html)...
www.politicalcompass.org (if that doesn't work, try http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
Awesome. Maybe after the trial Red Hat and SCO can rub both of their one-dollar bills together and split on a Big Mac
nope, big macs cost $2.33. maybe if the cashier was a linux user and SCO danced a jig for him/her. lol
(until you pay us money) that's the message SCO is sending to linux users. who cares? if they win, all the resources for developing linux go to work on bsd. think of how good that could get. if they lose (likely, and hopefully) we get to keep using linux for free, yippee!