Personally, I love this idea (and since it was posted repeatedly, some others do, too). I would have no issue with it, and it would make OSS skyrocket in popularity.
1) It would give programmers a go/no-go authority 2) It would kill EA 3) It would make software attain realistic performance. No more of those stupid car analogies. 4) It would mandate MUCH more expensive software 5) It would kill outsourcing. My logic for this is odd, but it goes like this: a physician is licensed to practice state by state, like a lawyer. A coder would need to be the same. Add a residency requirement, and voila. MS code would need to be independantly certified for each state it would be used in:) 6) Free / OSS code would become the "uncertified" code, so it would be truly interesting to watch how it developed. Some would love it, others wouldn't touch it with a 100m stick. Sorta like now.
Of course, I think it would be more important and useful to legislate that DRIVERS be certified, checked, and licensed like PILOTS. I highly doubt we would have as many accidents if we didn't let such total morons on the road. You want to commute? File a drive plan. Make it easy, allow people to file a "commute plan" and an "occasional use" plan that allows random trips under 10 miles or something. How about a frikin car black box? Insurance wants to determine who was at fault? They would have a constant sensor feed record set for data.
The reason it takes a LONG time to write safety-critical (not enterprise-critical) code is that test environment you mention. It takes weeks or months to create the perfect test environment.
Fast Company did an article on how NASA does the coding process here. It's not fast. It's not glamorous. It's demanding, complicated, and hostile.
You want a word processor that works perfectly, ever single time? To follow the "safety-critical" model and still make it happen quickly you would need a system that was designed from the blueprints up to service that precise need in those precise conditions. Every line in the code must line up perfectly with the requirements. Independent inspection is required.
The zOS stuff and the Alpha systems were examples of this. You will use ONLY the correct peripheral, and ONLY when it has been installed by authorized personnel. You will NOT deviate from this. The software will be ONLY the software certified to run there. ONLY in the combinations that are supported. In return, you will have a rep from the company there (virtually or physically) to help you in minutes. I think our record was physical, in-person assistance on an OS/390 issue within 30 minutes. You also pay an amazing amount for it. The FAA for example requires that a product be certified as a whole. OS, hardware, software, the works.
People don't think MS Word is worth $60k per seat, and they probably would be pissed if MS said "You can't install MS Word on the IBM T42... it is only supported on the T40 and T41 so far".
Oh, and I would be pretty impressed if Java were ever life/safety certified . It would require some amazing JRE, that's for sure. I'd expect to see a Perl script certified long before.
BTW, I would personally love to find some more OSS software products that were more or less DO-178A/B certified (on specific hardware, obviously). There is a version of linux that is. Even on IA-32 architecture.
We are no more able to predict 90 years from now than the engineers on the Eniac could predict iPod Nanos. They wouldn't even see the point, let alone the how.
I lost everything... *everything* from my childhood to digital obsolesence. I lost the midi songs I wrote (I stored them on 8 inch, that should be readable, right?) the poetry and daily journal I kept (It was in Wordstar and MS Works... there's a converter right?), the art that I did (Splash... everyone can use that!). I've lost just recently thousands of lines of code I kept backed up on Zip disks. The disks are currently "blank"/"corrupt".
The future is not so bright, but this year I switched to all open-source everything. I keep the source and a compiler with my stuff, so theoretically it could be reverse engineered/ported as long as the data stays "live" in my multiple network shares. I started using PNG for all graphics, and HTML/XHTML for all text. There is code for a simple reader with my text, and I have a version of each doc in OO.o format, HTML/XHTML, and TXT. My kids photos are now being converted to PNG to save them as well as possible.
Obviously, I should just count on the dye on CDs lasting forever though, right?
I couldn't agree more. The problem is not that "Windows Beat Unix" (which it didn't/hasn't by a long shot). The problem is that we have gone through an insane merger/acquisition era resulting in most of the major vendors of 70s and 80s hardware going away. This was caused largely by executives who didn't know or care about computer science. Frequently the worst product becomes the market leader. As a partial list: DEC is gone. Compaq is gone. SGI is almost gone. NeXT is gone. PARC is gone. Bell Labs is gone. Imagine is gone. 3DFX is gone.
Lots of companies died (or were purchased). All that is left is Sun (barely), IBM, and HP. Of course, that's the new HP, not the real HP.
Of course, to show my personal preferences, I will say that the one truly great OS of the 20th century is slowly dying out, in favor of this crappy Unix and Windows micro-computer junk. I will continue to consider VMS the top of the heap until I see an OS that actually can make a mainframe look buggy and still cost less. DEC was the very best. I love zOS, but VMS was/is still better. A tragedy that it is being victimized by the software patents that allowed it to work. I hope HP releases what's left of it some day, just so people can learn about how compilers and silicon are supposed to work.
Unix sucks. Windows sucks more. Linux is nothing but a buggy clone of an OS that sucks. Don't even start on OSX. Last thing the world needs is more Unix variants.
Unix may be dead, but if the alternative is that I have to use Windows or Linux? Why bother?
Oh, and I fully expect this to be modd'd as flamebait. I really couldn't care less. I was doing this stuff for a living before many of you even knew what a computer was.
I'd love this thread to turn into a meaningful comparison of the major OSs, but I know it won't. Initiate Halon Discharge:)
I'd say that there are 2 hurdles to ebooks. An "ipod of ebook readers" won't fix either.
1) It needs to work everywhere. No proprietary devices, software, or code. Like HTML... or the printing press. Just print out the book if you like.
2) No DRM. That crap is killing everything, and making me consider moving to the bahamas or something. I wish I'd never heard of it. Well, it is hard to kill music with DRM, but easy to kill books. So we need something like HTML... or the printing press. Just print out the book if you like.
Basically, You're using the best eBook reader in the world right now. HTML is the best format for it. No DRM. No "serious" compatibility issues (ignoring FF/IE/Opera/Etc arguments). It is supported on more devices than I could possibly list. Tons of devices are capable of serving up HTML, even when they have no good reason to.
Oh, and I read about 3 ebooks a week. I use Project Gutenberg and HTML, or PDF when I have to. PDF sucks, but it has the best DRM/Useability tradeoff.
Ummm... yes. I have. And personally, I don't want a credit score, and I sure as hell don't want any MORE national databases. Governments have proven to be as incompetent and evil and corporations. Why should they be PAID (it *is* our money, after all) to track this?
People seem to act like the government is in charge. The whole point of governments in general is to take care of the stuff that individuals can't do alone. Sewer, water, streets, armies, etc. If the Dutch want such a system, good. If not, that can be fixed. Sometimes the fixes are quiet, sometimes not.
That is an interesting comment (real quote or no), since it could either be interpeted as correct or incorrect; depending entirely on context.
In the context of *all* software, that is probably true originally. Early big iron certainly did not like to talk to other machines. It was a bit of a hack, if I recall correctly. Early micros were totally independant.
On the other hand, by the time MS was on the scene (the CPM days) there were quite a few machines written from the ground up to talk to each other. In which case the quote would be wrong.
Of course, I'm sure many will disagree with me on both counts:)
That's a big part of why I bought a shuffle. I keep it in a little black neoprene case, and I can easily "feel" where the buttons are. I never look to see if I pushed the correct one. I rarely miss the correct button when skipping songs blindly.
Also, I *hate* the other ipod interface. Too much work for just a frikin walkman. I'll stick with the shuffle:)
I don't think it damages the shuffle at all. I bought one, and I wouldn't even consider replacing it with a nano.
1) The nano is really pricey. I like the idea of having a much less expensive player. Too easy to lose, break, etc. They need to be nearly disposable.
2) The nano has a much more complicated interface. I like to blindly reach into my jersey to switch songs (without needing a remote or special outfit etc.)
3) The shuffle is (to me) a much more physically appealing device. Very simple, very easy to use. Sorta like the new pro keyboards that are super minimalist.
4) The nano sits in that odd price space -- too little storage to compete with the big devices, too expensive to compete with the little devices.
Just my arguments. I just plain like the shuffle better, and would still buy the shuffle again.
Firewire is another thing entirely. I am starting to doubt the future of FW800. USB seems to be holding its ground a little better than I would like.
Actually, my kid only gets to play after homework and before bed.
And nope. When a kid's math and reading are well above grade level, his grades are good, and he reads at least a book or two a week I couldn't care less. He could be playing card games, board games, sports, whatever. That's the whole point of "free time". If he choses to use the money he earns from chores on WoW (and the occasional comic book), I see that as entirely reasonable.
I also agree to this. I previously played about 15-30 hours a week of PS2 games, and a bit of Neverwinter Nights. I even bought both expansions as soon as the patches for Mac were available.
Now, I play about 3-5 hours of WoW a night, and I have no time at all for other games. I even have a few pre-ordered games sitting on my shelf in the shrinkwrap. I bought WoW accounts for my oldest son and my wife. We play together daily.
To top this off, I am considering a new machine based largely off gaming performance for the first time in 3 years.
I'd say it definately has an impact. A game would have to be truly amazing to pull me off WoW. I didn't even like Everquest this much.
At my company they are largely graphics people, but our web admins are starting to go to them, and I (a lowly sysadm) and beginning to bring my personal one in to supplement my Solaris system.
Ea has a stranglehold on producing poor quality serialized games!
Ha! Take that! They actively produce the lousiest serialized games out there, forcing all other game producers to actually attempt to produce something decent!
Thanks! That actually was a very nice clarification, and I appreciate it.
Let me re-phrase it:)
"When will some company package a graphical front-end for Unix that has the polish and toolkits of OSX (and presumably) Longhorn?"
I haven't coded an X app since about '88, so the whole GTK thing is new to me. Most of my code these days uses a browser, Java or GLUT to handle the presentation.
Well, having seen a lot of the other comments on this story, I'd have to say a lot of people don't agree. Personally, I think X blows, and it drags most of the Linux world down with it. It's an ancient idea that was poorly implemented in the first place. Pretty much every commercial offering has a better windowing server than X.
Actually, that might be a good idea... how about someone creates a really good commercial windowing system for those poor souls who have to use X every day? I'd love to have something with the quality of Avalon or Aqua on Solaris. That would be fantastic! I'd definately pay $60 - $80 USD for it. To heck with it being OpenSource, how about it be fast, functional, and easy to code for?
Actually, I use AIM, but for one reason only: iChat. iChat has such a fantastic integration with OSX and such a rich feature set that I very likely won't use anything else. I've tried the other Mac/Windows clients, but none of them do the real-time video/audio as well (if at all) while having the widespread user base. That, and I have AIM on my phone, handheld, and every machine I touch (usually pre-installed). It is fairly ubiquitous.
Well, considering the support we have had from IBM Tivoli, I'd rather rely on OSS. We have been unable to take reliable backups for 4 months, and had a "critsit" ticket for 3 months. IBM couldn't care less, and couldn't be providing worse service if they tried.
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Reminds me of the old FASA Mechwarrior quote:
:)
"Life is cheap. Mechs cost money"
Which only makes sense until you see how much it costs to train a pilot
-WS
Personally, I love this idea (and since it was posted repeatedly, some others do, too). I would have no issue with it, and it would make OSS skyrocket in popularity.
:)
1) It would give programmers a go/no-go authority
2) It would kill EA
3) It would make software attain realistic performance. No more of those stupid car analogies.
4) It would mandate MUCH more expensive software
5) It would kill outsourcing. My logic for this is odd, but it goes like this: a physician is licensed to practice state by state, like a lawyer. A coder would need to be the same. Add a residency requirement, and voila. MS code would need to be independantly certified for each state it would be used in
6) Free / OSS code would become the "uncertified" code, so it would be truly interesting to watch how it developed. Some would love it, others wouldn't touch it with a 100m stick. Sorta like now.
Of course, I think it would be more important and useful to legislate that DRIVERS be certified, checked, and licensed like PILOTS. I highly doubt we would have as many accidents if we didn't let such total morons on the road. You want to commute? File a drive plan. Make it easy, allow people to file a "commute plan" and an "occasional use" plan that allows random trips under 10 miles or something. How about a frikin car black box? Insurance wants to determine who was at fault? They would have a constant sensor feed record set for data.
-WS
The reason it takes a LONG time to write safety-critical (not enterprise-critical) code is that test environment you mention. It takes weeks or months to create the perfect test environment.
Fast Company did an article on how NASA does the coding process here. It's not fast. It's not glamorous. It's demanding, complicated, and hostile.
You want a word processor that works perfectly, ever single time? To follow the "safety-critical" model and still make it happen quickly you would need a system that was designed from the blueprints up to service that precise need in those precise conditions. Every line in the code must line up perfectly with the requirements. Independent inspection is required.
The zOS stuff and the Alpha systems were examples of this. You will use ONLY the correct peripheral, and ONLY when it has been installed by authorized personnel. You will NOT deviate from this. The software will be ONLY the software certified to run there. ONLY in the combinations that are supported. In return, you will have a rep from the company there (virtually or physically) to help you in minutes. I think our record was physical, in-person assistance on an OS/390 issue within 30 minutes. You also pay an amazing amount for it. The FAA for example requires that a product be certified as a whole. OS, hardware, software, the works.
People don't think MS Word is worth $60k per seat, and they probably would be pissed if MS said "You can't install MS Word on the IBM T42... it is only supported on the T40 and T41 so far".
Oh, and I would be pretty impressed if Java were ever life/safety certified . It would require some amazing JRE, that's for sure. I'd expect to see a Perl script certified long before.
BTW, I would personally love to find some more OSS software products that were more or less DO-178A/B certified (on specific hardware, obviously). There is a version of linux that is. Even on IA-32 architecture.
-WS
I will take a look. Last time I checked, both DeScribe and MS Works were pretty severly managled, but perhaps a perl script or two could be made :)
The wordstar ones would require a 5.25 disk reader (and valid disks). Those may be harder.
Thanks for the reminder!
-WS
I couldn't disagree more.
We are no more able to predict 90 years from now than the engineers on the Eniac could predict iPod Nanos. They wouldn't even see the point, let alone the how.
I lost everything... *everything* from my childhood to digital obsolesence. I lost the midi songs I wrote (I stored them on 8 inch, that should be readable, right?) the poetry and daily journal I kept (It was in Wordstar and MS Works... there's a converter right?), the art that I did (Splash... everyone can use that!). I've lost just recently thousands of lines of code I kept backed up on Zip disks. The disks are currently "blank"/"corrupt".
The future is not so bright, but this year I switched to all open-source everything. I keep the source and a compiler with my stuff, so theoretically it could be reverse engineered/ported as long as the data stays "live" in my multiple network shares. I started using PNG for all graphics, and HTML/XHTML for all text. There is code for a simple reader with my text, and I have a version of each doc in OO.o format, HTML/XHTML, and TXT. My kids photos are now being converted to PNG to save them as well as possible.
Obviously, I should just count on the dye on CDs lasting forever though, right?
-WS
I couldn't agree more. The problem is not that "Windows Beat Unix" (which it didn't/hasn't by a long shot). The problem is that we have gone through an insane merger/acquisition era resulting in most of the major vendors of 70s and 80s hardware going away. This was caused largely by executives who didn't know or care about computer science. Frequently the worst product becomes the market leader. As a partial list: DEC is gone. Compaq is gone. SGI is almost gone. NeXT is gone. PARC is gone. Bell Labs is gone. Imagine is gone. 3DFX is gone.
:)
Lots of companies died (or were purchased). All that is left is Sun (barely), IBM, and HP. Of course, that's the new HP, not the real HP.
Of course, to show my personal preferences, I will say that the one truly great OS of the 20th century is slowly dying out, in favor of this crappy Unix and Windows micro-computer junk. I will continue to consider VMS the top of the heap until I see an OS that actually can make a mainframe look buggy and still cost less. DEC was the very best. I love zOS, but VMS was/is still better. A tragedy that it is being victimized by the software patents that allowed it to work. I hope HP releases what's left of it some day, just so people can learn about how compilers and silicon are supposed to work.
Unix sucks. Windows sucks more. Linux is nothing but a buggy clone of an OS that sucks. Don't even start on OSX. Last thing the world needs is more Unix variants.
Unix may be dead, but if the alternative is that I have to use Windows or Linux? Why bother?
Oh, and I fully expect this to be modd'd as flamebait. I really couldn't care less. I was doing this stuff for a living before many of you even knew what a computer was.
I'd love this thread to turn into a meaningful comparison of the major OSs, but I know it won't.
Initiate Halon Discharge
-WS
I'd say that there are 2 hurdles to ebooks. An "ipod of ebook readers" won't fix either.
1) It needs to work everywhere. No proprietary devices, software, or code. Like HTML... or the printing press. Just print out the book if you like.
2) No DRM. That crap is killing everything, and making me consider moving to the bahamas or something. I wish I'd never heard of it. Well, it is hard to kill music with DRM, but easy to kill books. So we need something like HTML... or the printing press. Just print out the book if you like.
Basically, You're using the best eBook reader in the world right now. HTML is the best format for it. No DRM. No "serious" compatibility issues (ignoring FF/IE/Opera/Etc arguments). It is supported on more devices than I could possibly list. Tons of devices are capable of serving up HTML, even when they have no good reason to.
Oh, and I read about 3 ebooks a week. I use Project Gutenberg and HTML, or PDF when I have to. PDF sucks, but it has the best DRM/Useability tradeoff.
-WS
Ummm... yes. I have. And personally, I don't want a credit score, and I sure as hell don't want any MORE national databases. Governments have proven to be as incompetent and evil and corporations. Why should they be PAID (it *is* our money, after all) to track this?
People seem to act like the government is in charge. The whole point of governments in general is to take care of the stuff that individuals can't do alone. Sewer, water, streets, armies, etc. If the Dutch want such a system, good. If not, that can be fixed. Sometimes the fixes are quiet, sometimes not.
-WS
That is an interesting comment (real quote or no), since it could either be interpeted as correct or incorrect; depending entirely on context.
:)
In the context of *all* software, that is probably true originally. Early big iron certainly did not like to talk to other machines. It was a bit of a hack, if I recall correctly. Early micros were totally independant.
On the other hand, by the time MS was on the scene (the CPM days) there were quite a few machines written from the ground up to talk to each other. In which case the quote would be wrong.
Of course, I'm sure many will disagree with me on both counts
-WS
That's a big part of why I bought a shuffle. I keep it in a little black neoprene case, and I can easily "feel" where the buttons are. I never look to see if I pushed the correct one. I rarely miss the correct button when skipping songs blindly.
:)
Also, I *hate* the other ipod interface. Too much work for just a frikin walkman. I'll stick with the shuffle
-WS
I don't think it damages the shuffle at all. I bought one, and I wouldn't even consider replacing it with a nano.
1) The nano is really pricey. I like the idea of having a much less expensive player. Too easy to lose, break, etc. They need to be nearly disposable.
2) The nano has a much more complicated interface. I like to blindly reach into my jersey to switch songs (without needing a remote or special outfit etc.)
3) The shuffle is (to me) a much more physically appealing device. Very simple, very easy to use. Sorta like the new pro keyboards that are super minimalist.
4) The nano sits in that odd price space -- too little storage to compete with the big devices, too expensive to compete with the little devices.
Just my arguments. I just plain like the shuffle better, and would still buy the shuffle again.
Firewire is another thing entirely. I am starting to doubt the future of FW800. USB seems to be holding its ground a little better than I would like.
-WS
Let me guess... you are running Lotus Notes AND Firefox on your desktop? Or is it Notes only a pig under Windows?
-WS
Actually, my kid only gets to play after homework and before bed.
And nope. When a kid's math and reading are well above grade level, his grades are good, and he reads at least a book or two a week I couldn't care less. He could be playing card games, board games, sports, whatever. That's the whole point of "free time". If he choses to use the money he earns from chores on WoW (and the occasional comic book), I see that as entirely reasonable.
-WS
I also agree to this. I previously played about 15-30 hours a week of PS2 games, and a bit of Neverwinter Nights. I even bought both expansions as soon as the patches for Mac were available.
Now, I play about 3-5 hours of WoW a night, and I have no time at all for other games. I even have a few pre-ordered games sitting on my shelf in the shrinkwrap. I bought WoW accounts for my oldest son and my wife. We play together daily.
To top this off, I am considering a new machine based largely off gaming performance for the first time in 3 years.
I'd say it definately has an impact. A game would have to be truly amazing to pull me off WoW. I didn't even like Everquest this much.
-WS
At my company they are largely graphics people, but our web admins are starting to go to them, and I (a lowly sysadm) and beginning to bring my personal one in to supplement my Solaris system.
Macs are branching out all over.
-WS
Ea has a stranglehold on producing poor quality serialized games!
:)
Ha! Take that! They actively produce the lousiest serialized games out there, forcing all other game producers to actually attempt to produce something decent!
Very anti-competitive
-WS
Thanks! That actually was a very nice clarification, and I appreciate it.
:)
Let me re-phrase it
"When will some company package a graphical front-end for Unix that has the polish and toolkits of OSX (and presumably) Longhorn?"
I haven't coded an X app since about '88, so the whole GTK thing is new to me. Most of my code these days uses a browser, Java or GLUT to handle the presentation.
-WS
Well, having seen a lot of the other comments on this story, I'd have to say a lot of people don't agree. Personally, I think X blows, and it drags most of the Linux world down with it. It's an ancient idea that was poorly implemented in the first place. Pretty much every commercial offering has a better windowing server than X.
Actually, that might be a good idea... how about someone creates a really good commercial windowing system for those poor souls who have to use X every day? I'd love to have something with the quality of Avalon or Aqua on Solaris. That would be fantastic! I'd definately pay $60 - $80 USD for it. To heck with it being OpenSource, how about it be fast, functional, and easy to code for?
-WS
What they really need are towels. Lots and lots of towels :)
Though in all seriousness, I love New Orleans, and it is probably worth pumping the water out. It's one of the few truly interesting US cities.
-WS
Heh. You used the terms "Huge" and "SQL Server" in the same sentence. What is your definition of huge?
8k+ tables? 3 TB+? How big does a "huge" SQL server DB go?
You are a MSCDBA so obviously you are qualified to speak to this, and I am just a midrange/big iron DB guy so I don't know and would like to find out.
-WS
Wow! My %43@#0=_W223qk@34a!A ver 2.0 is SO much cooler than yours!
-WS
Actually, I use AIM, but for one reason only: iChat. iChat has such a fantastic integration with OSX and such a rich feature set that I very likely won't use anything else. I've tried the other Mac/Windows clients, but none of them do the real-time video/audio as well (if at all) while having the widespread user base. That, and I have AIM on my phone, handheld, and every machine I touch (usually pre-installed). It is fairly ubiquitous.
-WS
Well, considering the support we have had from IBM Tivoli, I'd rather rely on OSS. We have been unable to take reliable backups for 4 months, and had a "critsit" ticket for 3 months. IBM couldn't care less, and couldn't be providing worse service if they tried.
For the money, just as easy to go OSS.
-WS
WoW is pretty awesome, but I see a lot of issues with the endgame. I have only gotten to lvl 24, but I know a lot of lvl 60s who are bored stiff.
:)
Maybe WoW needs to be a movie?
In response:
Not all those who wander are lost
-Tolkien
-WS
I personally account for 3 hardcore players on Khadgar. (multiple hours per day)
:)
I bought it specifically because they had a Mac/Windows blended community, and I bought them at the Apple store, so it would be obvious
-WS