An incredibly good question, many people seem to feel like another poster who wrote (note: i don't really agree with it but it does sum up the sentiment really well):
"Fedora is unstable testbed material for RedHat to use folk as guinea pigs, certainly not suitable for corporate use. Fine for personal web server use or perhaps coloc OS for small business that have geeks with time on their hands, if the occasional kinks and hiccups aren't too annoying. "
If one does not want to spend money on RHEL, and is told Fedora Core is not for production envirioments, what does redhat sugest to do? Go use another not redhat distribution?
Of cource i'm well aware of CentOS, Scientific linux, etc. However they don't seem to solve that general impression of 'either pay, or use someone else's distro if you want to use 'production envirioment' class product.
Wouldn't it be better to embrase CentOS and re-label it to 'Fedora Enterprise' and welcome all those users into Fedora's/Redhat's arms? Even if its just to take away the confusion, and stop the 'myth' (or reality?) of "We don't have a free production enviroment product"
I reguarly use my left arm for mousing around the GUI's when my right arm is starting to show symptoms of soreness too.
However one question bothers me, won't at some point the left arm become just as sore?:-/
I already noticed, when i use my left arm heavily to relieve the strain on my right arm that my left arm is showing more signs of (very light admitedly) some soreness too
Yep your absolutely right, normally a release schedule would follow; -alpha(s) -beta(s) -release canidate(s)
However in this case its a release canidate for a beta release (beta1), so its not beta1 yet, nor is it anywhere near release canidate, its still just before hitting beta in the release process
Both sides of the argument seem to be completely in vain.
Non believers shouldn't argue how the faith of believers work... and the other way around, believers shouldn't dictate how the life of a non-believer should look like.
We have laws that dictate the minimal basics your life's actions should comply too, and for the rest its 'personal choice'.
So if non-believers think its ok to do such research, and its not against the law, then a believer shouldn't argue that its 'against gods will', because thats neither part of the law, nor part of the personal freedom of choice of the non-believer.
If we let go of that basic foundation of 'respecting eachothers differences', then non believers could tell believers to 'stop believing in god', just as much as believers can tell non-believers 'you shouldn't do this because its against my religion', thats a model that just doesn't work!
In days of old the world's religions were for a big part 'the state' and its laws, but in modern times this is no longer true, and in any country i would want to live in, its believed there should be a sepperation between church and state
So while the top posters topic of "if god does exist, then why..." makes for an interesting discussion, and the responders "god gave us... god says.." is also a quite interesting discussion to have, neither of them have ANYTHING to do with the topic on hand. If religious types have no respect for my personal freedom which is granted by the law, then they also waver any hope that people could respect their views, and visa-versa!
Sorry both posters have interesting views, but it just seems so funny to me their both trying to persuade 'the other side' with arguments of their own side:-)
Try telling that to the families of the 2000+ people that died on 9/11/01.
Thats not the most interesting number, the number you should be interested in is How many people will give their lives to take back the lost freedom in the future.
From what i hear, other countries where such fights have already happened or are still ongoing, its a hell of a lot more then 2000...
For crying out loud, has the daily brain-washing you are forced to go thru turned your brain into pulp?
Terrorism has no connections to any religion, how you could say that the 'real definition...', is beyond me! Very shocking to see this is how 'people think' now-a-days.
FYI terrorism is: "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."
By your definition the old IRA in ireland were not 'terrorists' because they were catholic and not islamic. The PLA were not terrorist because they were maxistic, and not islamic, the seperation movement in spain is not terroristic, because their not islamic... Sheesh what corruption of the world view!
Almost any fanatic organisation that creates the feeling of 'we are a family' and 'they are the bad guys' is able to coerce its members into performing 'terrorist acts', wether the believes they stand for are political, religious or sociological.
You make it sound like its something 'new', while the world has known terrorism for as many decades as we have international laws about what constitutes 'legal warfare'.
Your right about one thing.. it will get worse, as long as people buy into this hate-mongering thought control that politicians fire into the unsuspecting crowds to win votes and distract the people from scrutinizing their actions.
Backdoors, keys to which the goverment has access, internet traffic sniffing, wiretapping phone calls and always having the backup option of sending some guys to knock on your door.. Never think the goverment can't get their hands on your data, chances are, all your data is already belonging to them:-)
Wasn't redhat doing a major Xen push too? Fedora Core 5 will include xen host and guest kernels plus xen3, and from what i heard their putting a major effort into getting that usable too.
Never bet on a single horse i guess?
Or am i missing something and are OpenVZ and Xen very different products? (doesn't sound like it)
Upside of Xen seems to be the ability to run *bsd and other OS's in guest domains too, no mention of this in OpenVZ
Actually i think usability is a 'small' part of the corperate move towards gnome.. Its accesability!
Gnome has had a lot of contributions from Sun to improve accesability, high contrast/large font options, screen reader support, screen magnifiers, style guides and a lot of things refering to US and international accesability specifications that software needs to live up to before its acceptable to some goverment- / organisations. (great internationalization & font support thru pango, flexible text directions, etc must play a factor too)
I think a lot of the big projects choose gnome/gtk for this reason too, and its definatly why redhat picked gnome, so they can sell to those markets, and its probably why Novell decided to pick gnome as well
Big organisations and goverments have different demands, and gnome seems to fit them well; Home users might have different demands (though some do require the accesability!), but with all the $ flowing to gnome, the area's where its not up to spec yet, it will be soon i guess
And what exactly are you getting out of this exercise? Your seem to pop up everywhere in this thread trying to tell people to become enlightened and realize their own self, be empowered, and coat this message in vague terminologies.
Funny mixup of messages to on the one hand be claiming the people who you react to understand nothing of them selves, and on the other hand say they should have self respect and be empowered.
Often when one sees such a confusing and conflicting message there's something behind it. You sure do not seem to be able yet to accept the world as it is, and the people and their roads for who and what they are, so what are your trying to achive? A better sense of self for you? Push them down so you feel better about your road?
Might have had something to do with the fact that MsSql was branched of Sybase 4.0:-)
From Wikki:
The code base for Microsoft SQL Server originated in Sybase SQL Server, and was Microsoft's entry to the enterprise-level database market, competing against Oracle, IBM, and Sybase. Microsoft, Sybase and Ashton-Tate teamed up to create and market the first version named SQL Server 4.2 for OS/2 (about 1989) which was essentially the same as Sybase SQL Server 4.0 on Unix, VMS, etc. Microsoft SQL Server for NT v4.2 was shipped around 1992 (available bundled with Microsoft OS/2 version 1.3) and was a simple port from OS/2 to NT. Microsoft SQL Server v6.5 was the first version of SQL Server that was architected for NT and did not include any direction from Sybase.
About the time Windows NT was coming out, Sybase and Microsoft parted ways and pursued their own design and marketing schemes. Microsoft negotiated exclusive rights to all versions of SQL Server written for Microsoft operating systems. Later, Sybase changed the name of its product to Adaptive Server Enterprise to avoid confusion with Microsoft SQL Server. Until 1994 Microsoft's SQL Server carried three Sybase copyright notices as an indication of its origin.
I'm afraid i will loose any chance of not being marked a troll for asking this, but i'll be brave and do it anyway.. take pitty on me mods:-)
You speak of the US market, supply and demand and these are very good points, in the american mind puny european cars are just not 'cars', their toys that never feel 'safe' and just aint american enough. Europeans on the other hand think about things like 'gas is expensive', 'boy we polute a lot', 'wow taxes on huge cars are expensive' and the ever favorite 'how could i park such a monster of a car in town!'. So sure both sides have different ideas and concepts of what a car is and different problems they face.
However the enviriomental question isn't one thats unique to europe. Looking at recent huricanes one could say they are not becomming more frequent, but are becomming more powerfull.. one could argue that this could well be because the oceans are warming up, and warm water is the 'fuel' for a huricane, so a slightly warmer gulf of mexico directly equals stronger huricanes and more devistation.
Now the climate isn't changing its self, we as human kind contribute a lot to this, and thus we as people tried to initiate the kyoto convention, tax bigger cars and poluting industries, raise taxes on gas and a slew of other measures (here in the netherlands you get a big tax break on a small car equiped with state of the art filters, and get huge tax increases on big poluting cars forinstance).
Now the US didn't join the kyoto convention, still refuses too, sugested a watered down version that wouldn't mean taking drastic measures, the US doesn't choose (yet?) to drive less poluting cars, and doesn't stimulate less poluting industries 'as much' as europe does.
Doesn't anyone in america get the feeling that maybe their demands for bigger, more gas guzzling cars isn't such a bright idea and that maybe the kyoto convention isn't so silly afterall?
As you said its all supply and demand, and i'm just wondering why demand ain't shifting..
Oh i'm not worried, MS will never release "Sparkle" for Linux, and probably never for FireFox either! Think it'll be years and years before i see a sparkle movie:-)
Well talking about proof... you have proven that you don't actually read articles, and just troll..
Click the link and read the awnser to your questions:
Back in March, Sandy Wilson was taking care of her three grandsons when a group of men attempted to burglarize her home, pointing a gun at the kids.
and:
Police arrested the four men. Samuel Woodrow received a five-year prison sentence this week. Ronnie Farris is serving four years. Lucas Griffin got probation. And Zachary Brandenburg's trial is in January.
Honestly that is, and always has been one of the strong points of Microsoft. It's not without reason that the famous Balmer 'developers -developers - developers - developers - developers - developers - developers' chant happened.
Their toolkits are well documented and very easy to get started in. Also a lot of their development (& -tools) is focused not on making the right choice, but giving the most fancy features and ease of use to developers and users alike. Because of this there are many many Windows developers who with limited skill can already contribute to the windows software pool, and thus making more software available for Windows, and making getting Windows developers cheaper then getting Linux developers.
However there are also those who feel this is also the weakness of Microsoft. By making API's and tools that are not technicly the best solution it'll burst in due time (who doesn't know of the socket handle leak that MS can't fix because otherwise they'd break 1000's of apps). Also by making it easy to develop for and maintain Microsoft software, the engineers and administrators often have no clue of underlying issues thus leading to lots of bugs and exploitable situations..
There's something to be said for forcing people to understand a situation before allowing them to contribute:-)
How comments like this get modded up as being "interesting" is one of those unsolvable mysteries of life for me.
You don't mention if you mean using linux in the desktop or server space, neither what kind of applications or services your refering to when you say "in my experiance". Basicly you give no foundation at all for this comment to be taken seriously at all; Nevermind give the impression that you have any notion of what "Enterprise level" is.
And just saying that Linux isn't 'free' is stating the obvious.. Even breating air takes time and thus costs money.. Not to mention the TCO of breathing air if there's a risk of breathing poluted or contaminated air.
The question is not 'is linux's TCO free', it's 'how does linux's TCO compare to a similair microsoft based solution'.
if only i had mod point's today you would've gotton a -1 flamebait or overrated from me..
Sure it could be benifitial to have low level hooks in outlook (& -express), but in no way do you need to intergrate anything into the OS to be able to do so!
Simply use/make a registry key pointing to the.DLL to load and the function to call, and anyone can now make a AV solution for outlook
The only problem is that MS doesnt want any 3rd party software competing on a level playing field, so they keep intergrating applications into the OS, and keep any low level hooks undocumented, so that they automaticly have leg up over any competetion
Re:A whole 'herd' of new excuses?
on
WiFi Gone Wild
·
· Score: 2, Funny
AC Wrote:/me imagines the effect of the release of the CowBlaster worm.
Hmmm good inspiration! Hell you wouldn't even need to write a worm or virus to wreck some serious havoc.. Just install a WiFi jammer in your van, drive by the grazing fields, and let the stampedes begin! Could give a whole new meaning to war-driving:-)
Re:A whole 'herd' of new excuses?
on
WiFi Gone Wild
·
· Score: 1
FYI, while your remark was quite funny i think you forgot to follow the link. While the headline does insinuate herding WiFi access points, thats not what it's actually about
It talkes about setting up programmable Virtual Fences (as you already have for dogs) so that multiple herds can be remote controlled from a central location..
Slashdot Mirror
An incredibly good question, many people seem to feel like another poster who wrote (note: i don't really agree with it but it does sum up the sentiment really well):
"Fedora is unstable testbed material for RedHat to use folk as guinea pigs, certainly not suitable for corporate use. Fine for personal web server use or perhaps coloc OS for small business that have geeks with time on their hands, if the occasional kinks and hiccups aren't too annoying. "
If one does not want to spend money on RHEL, and is told Fedora Core is not for production envirioments, what does redhat sugest to do? Go use another not redhat distribution?
Of cource i'm well aware of CentOS, Scientific linux, etc. However they don't seem to solve that general impression of 'either pay, or use someone else's distro if you want to use 'production envirioment' class product.
Wouldn't it be better to embrase CentOS and re-label it to 'Fedora Enterprise' and welcome all those users into Fedora's/Redhat's arms? Even if its just to take away the confusion, and stop the 'myth' (or reality?) of "We don't have a free production enviroment product"
I reguarly use my left arm for mousing around the GUI's when my right arm is starting to show symptoms of soreness too.
:-/
However one question bothers me, won't at some point the left arm become just as sore?
I already noticed, when i use my left arm heavily to relieve the strain on my right arm that my left arm is showing more signs of (very light admitedly) some soreness too
Yep your absolutely right, normally a release schedule would follow;
-alpha(s)
-beta(s)
-release canidate(s)
However in this case its a release canidate for a beta release (beta1), so its not beta1 yet, nor is it anywhere near release canidate, its still just before hitting beta in the release process
"..and it's hotter than two Jessica Albas wresting the devil himself in a pit of molten steel. It's no contest, virtualization has it all.."
Umm i hate to be the one pointing this out, but i for one can think of some very hot things about Jessica Albas that virtualization doesn't have.
Really.., can't compare
Both sides of the argument seem to be completely in vain.
... and the other way around, believers shouldn't dictate how the life of a non-believer should look like.
..." makes for an interesting discussion, and the responders "god gave us ... god says .." is also a quite interesting discussion to have, neither of them have ANYTHING to do with the topic on hand. If religious types have no respect for my personal freedom which is granted by the law, then they also waver any hope that people could respect their views, and visa-versa!
:-)
Non believers shouldn't argue how the faith of believers work
We have laws that dictate the minimal basics your life's actions should comply too, and for the rest its 'personal choice'.
So if non-believers think its ok to do such research, and its not against the law, then a believer shouldn't argue that its 'against gods will', because thats neither part of the law, nor part of the personal freedom of choice of the non-believer.
If we let go of that basic foundation of 'respecting eachothers differences', then non believers could tell believers to 'stop believing in god', just as much as believers can tell non-believers 'you shouldn't do this because its against my religion', thats a model that just doesn't work!
In days of old the world's religions were for a big part 'the state' and its laws, but in modern times this is no longer true, and in any country i would want to live in, its believed there should be a sepperation between church and state
So while the top posters topic of "if god does exist, then why
Sorry both posters have interesting views, but it just seems so funny to me their both trying to persuade 'the other side' with arguments of their own side
Try telling that to the families of the 2000+ people that died on 9/11/01.
...
Thats not the most interesting number, the number you should be interested in is How many people will give their lives to take back the lost freedom in the future.
From what i hear, other countries where such fights have already happened or are still ongoing, its a hell of a lot more then 2000
For crying out loud, has the daily brain-washing you are forced to go thru turned your brain into pulp?
...', is beyond me! Very shocking to see this is how 'people think' now-a-days.
... Sheesh what corruption of the world view!
.. it will get worse, as long as people buy into this hate-mongering thought control that politicians fire into the unsuspecting crowds to win votes and distract the people from scrutinizing their actions.
Terrorism has no connections to any religion, how you could say that the 'real definition
FYI terrorism is:
"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."
By your definition the old IRA in ireland were not 'terrorists' because they were catholic and not islamic. The PLA were not terrorist because they were maxistic, and not islamic, the seperation movement in spain is not terroristic, because their not islamic
Almost any fanatic organisation that creates the feeling of 'we are a family' and 'they are the bad guys' is able to coerce its members into performing 'terrorist acts', wether the believes they stand for are political, religious or sociological.
You make it sound like its something 'new', while the world has known terrorism for as many decades as we have international laws about what constitutes 'legal warfare'.
Your right about one thing
Backdoors, keys to which the goverment has access, internet traffic sniffing, wiretapping phone calls and always having the backup option of sending some guys to knock on your door.. Never think the goverment can't get their hands on your data, chances are, all your data is already belonging to them :-)
Wasn't redhat doing a major Xen push too? Fedora Core 5 will include xen host and guest kernels plus xen3, and from what i heard their putting a major effort into getting that usable too.
Never bet on a single horse i guess?
Or am i missing something and are OpenVZ and Xen very different products? (doesn't sound like it)
Upside of Xen seems to be the ability to run *bsd and other OS's in guest domains too, no mention of this in OpenVZ
Hence the "economic death penalty". This guy won't ever be able to make money again
Of course the real question is: Will this lens let us look into the past? And if so will tom cruise destroy it for us before the bad guys win?
Actually i think usability is a 'small' part of the corperate move towards gnome .. Its accesability!
Gnome has had a lot of contributions from Sun to improve accesability, high contrast/large font options, screen reader support, screen magnifiers, style guides and a lot of things refering to US and international accesability specifications that software needs to live up to before its acceptable to some goverment- / organisations. (great internationalization & font support thru pango, flexible text directions, etc must play a factor too)
I think a lot of the big projects choose gnome/gtk for this reason too, and its definatly why redhat picked gnome, so they can sell to those markets, and its probably why Novell decided to pick gnome as well
Big organisations and goverments have different demands, and gnome seems to fit them well; Home users might have different demands (though some do require the accesability!), but with all the $ flowing to gnome, the area's where its not up to spec yet, it will be soon i guess
And what exactly are you getting out of this exercise? Your seem to pop up everywhere in this thread trying to tell people to become enlightened and realize their own self, be empowered, and coat this message in vague terminologies.
Funny mixup of messages to on the one hand be claiming the people who you react to understand nothing of them selves, and on the other hand say they should have self respect and be empowered.
Often when one sees such a confusing and conflicting message there's something behind it. You sure do not seem to be able yet to accept the world as it is, and the people and their roads for who and what they are, so what are your trying to achive? A better sense of self for you? Push them down so you feel better about your road?
I swear when i hit reply your responce wasn't there yet, but i like the way you think (grinning)
Might have had something to do with the fact that MsSql was branched of Sybase 4.0 :-)
From Wikki:
The code base for Microsoft SQL Server originated in Sybase SQL Server, and was Microsoft's entry to the enterprise-level database market, competing against Oracle, IBM, and Sybase. Microsoft, Sybase and Ashton-Tate teamed up to create and market the first version named SQL Server 4.2 for OS/2 (about 1989) which was essentially the same as Sybase SQL Server 4.0 on Unix, VMS, etc. Microsoft SQL Server for NT v4.2 was shipped around 1992 (available bundled with Microsoft OS/2 version 1.3) and was a simple port from OS/2 to NT. Microsoft SQL Server v6.5 was the first version of SQL Server that was architected for NT and did not include any direction from Sybase.
About the time Windows NT was coming out, Sybase and Microsoft parted ways and pursued their own design and marketing schemes. Microsoft negotiated exclusive rights to all versions of SQL Server written for Microsoft operating systems. Later, Sybase changed the name of its product to Adaptive Server Enterprise to avoid confusion with Microsoft SQL Server. Until 1994 Microsoft's SQL Server carried three Sybase copyright notices as an indication of its origin.
See original text here
I'm afraid i will loose any chance of not being marked a troll for asking this, but i'll be brave and do it anyway .. take pitty on me mods :-)
.. one could argue that this could well be because the oceans are warming up, and warm water is the 'fuel' for a huricane, so a slightly warmer gulf of mexico directly equals stronger huricanes and more devistation.
..
You speak of the US market, supply and demand and these are very good points, in the american mind puny european cars are just not 'cars', their toys that never feel 'safe' and just aint american enough. Europeans on the other hand think about things like 'gas is expensive', 'boy we polute a lot', 'wow taxes on huge cars are expensive' and the ever favorite 'how could i park such a monster of a car in town!'. So sure both sides have different ideas and concepts of what a car is and different problems they face.
However the enviriomental question isn't one thats unique to europe. Looking at recent huricanes one could say they are not becomming more frequent, but are becomming more powerfull
Now the climate isn't changing its self, we as human kind contribute a lot to this, and thus we as people tried to initiate the kyoto convention, tax bigger cars and poluting industries, raise taxes on gas and a slew of other measures (here in the netherlands you get a big tax break on a small car equiped with state of the art filters, and get huge tax increases on big poluting cars forinstance).
Now the US didn't join the kyoto convention, still refuses too, sugested a watered down version that wouldn't mean taking drastic measures, the US doesn't choose (yet?) to drive less poluting cars, and doesn't stimulate less poluting industries 'as much' as europe does.
Doesn't anyone in america get the feeling that maybe their demands for bigger, more gas guzzling cars isn't such a bright idea and that maybe the kyoto convention isn't so silly afterall?
As you said its all supply and demand, and i'm just wondering why demand ain't shifting
Oh i'm not worried, MS will never release "Sparkle" for Linux, and probably never for FireFox either! Think it'll be years and years before i see a sparkle movie :-)
Someone points out that Moore's law is dead, or will be dead soon. This has been the case since the law was invented!
<sarcasm>Oh wait... THIS time its different?</sarcasm>
Well talking about proof ... you have proven that you don't actually read articles, and just troll..
Click the link and read the awnser to your questions:
Back in March, Sandy Wilson was taking care of her three grandsons when a group of men attempted to burglarize her home, pointing a gun at the kids.
and:
Police arrested the four men. Samuel Woodrow received a five-year prison sentence this week. Ronnie Farris is serving four years. Lucas Griffin got probation. And Zachary Brandenburg's trial is in January.
Honestly that is, and always has been one of the strong points of Microsoft. It's not without reason that the famous Balmer 'developers -developers - developers - developers - developers - developers - developers' chant happened.
:-)
Their toolkits are well documented and very easy to get started in. Also a lot of their development (& -tools) is focused not on making the right choice, but giving the most fancy features and ease of use to developers and users alike. Because of this there are many many Windows developers who with limited skill can already contribute to the windows software pool, and thus making more software available for Windows, and making getting Windows developers cheaper then getting Linux developers.
However there are also those who feel this is also the weakness of Microsoft. By making API's and tools that are not technicly the best solution it'll burst in due time (who doesn't know of the socket handle leak that MS can't fix because otherwise they'd break 1000's of apps). Also by making it easy to develop for and maintain Microsoft software, the engineers and administrators often have no clue of underlying issues thus leading to lots of bugs and exploitable situations..
There's something to be said for forcing people to understand a situation before allowing them to contribute
How comments like this get modded up as being "interesting" is one of those unsolvable mysteries of life for me.
.. Not to mention the TCO of breathing air if there's a risk of breathing poluted or contaminated air.
You don't mention if you mean using linux in the desktop or server space, neither what kind of applications or services your refering to when you say "in my experiance". Basicly you give no foundation at all for this comment to be taken seriously at all; Nevermind give the impression that you have any notion of what "Enterprise level" is.
And just saying that Linux isn't 'free' is stating the obvious.. Even breating air takes time and thus costs money
The question is not 'is linux's TCO free', it's 'how does linux's TCO compare to a similair microsoft based solution'.
if only i had mod point's today you would've gotton a -1 flamebait or overrated from me..
For people like me who had to look this up:
ablate: To remove by erosion, melting, evaporation, or vaporization
Oh B*LL F**K*NG SH*T! (please forgive my french)
.DLL to load and the function to call, and anyone can now make a AV solution for outlook
Sure it could be benifitial to have low level hooks in outlook (& -express), but in no way do you need to intergrate anything into the OS to be able to do so!
Simply use/make a registry key pointing to the
The only problem is that MS doesnt want any 3rd party software competing on a level playing field, so they keep intergrating applications into the OS, and keep any low level hooks undocumented, so that they automaticly have leg up over any competetion
AC Wrote: /me imagines the effect of the release of the CowBlaster worm.
:-)
Hmmm good inspiration! Hell you wouldn't even need to write a worm or virus to wreck some serious havoc.. Just install a WiFi jammer in your van, drive by the grazing fields, and let the stampedes begin! Could give a whole new meaning to war-driving
FYI, while your remark was quite funny i think you forgot to follow the link. While the headline does insinuate herding WiFi access points, thats not what it's actually about
It talkes about setting up programmable Virtual Fences (as you already have for dogs) so that multiple herds can be remote controlled from a central location..