I have to agree with Mantrid here. Personally, I find it annoying as hell when someone's phone starts ringing in the middle of the overpriced movie I'm watching, but a law isn't the way to go. Give the power to the individual business, they're the ones that should be mandating how their patrons should govern themselves. There's no need for a fine, kicking someone out of a movie they paid 8.50 for is punishment enough, and it doesn't bring Big Brother 1 step closer to controlling us.
How can you even suggest this is illegal? These are default options. I guarantee you would be pissed as a first time user if Apache didn't come with default options. Whether or not this is in the best interest for the consumer is debatable, but easily justifiable by Real. A simple argument would be that the checked boxes provide helpful information to a new user (funny, i know, but bear with me).
This isn't a product where you must provide a legitimate email address to register. You're getting something for nothing, literally, and it was your choice to download. Skeazy, perhaps, but most certainly legal, and not a terribly large pain in the ass. Compare it to other applications out there (Gator comes to mind, that vile, repulsive worm of a legal piece of spyware) and I think you'll find this process is quite pleasant in comparison.
No, no, no..it doesn't. Because a EULA goes multiple pages does not that mean you are not obligated to obey it because you couldn't read the whole thing. You are responsible, as an end user, for reading all the documentation that is provided. If there are documents referred to by links, it's your responsibility to read those as well.
These are similar to the reasons why people hire lawyers...you don't want to get screwed by some hidden text somewhere that you were too lazy to read, so you have someone else read it for you. Taxes? Same thing, lots of small, hidden text. These are all *legal* documents, they're just obfuscated.
I hate EULA's and the like as much as the next guy, but it's your responsibility as a user to read through stuff that the product provider wants you too. Otherwise, you are subject to their default intentions (which are probably ill, in this case).
Okay, there was a difference...one, because it was a different TYPE of class (sociology involves a lot more interaction than engineering classes), and two, because I had to work with people, the projects required it (can't have simulated marriages without 2 people). Putting the different feelings aside, I, in many ways, preferred the sociology class because of the girls. They were always willing to help or talk about the subject since they were really interested in it.
While you pointed out the differences between the two classes, I think you just emphasized my point.
Remember that it is far easier in our society for men to enter a class of mostly females than it is for the opposite to occur.
Show me proof of this one. My generation (I'm 24) is possibly the first for the opposite (women entering men's occupation) to be easier, IMHO. It flows from the women's movement and feminism (same? you decide) deciding that it's okay for women to be anything they want. Guys are still stygmatized far more by both sexes than women, who are simply stygmzatized by their own. For instance...how many people know girls who are athletic? Like to play baseball, hockey, soccer, etc. Like to watch sports on tv? Like to play video games? All activities that were tradionally male only. How many men enter fashion design? Now count how many aren't gay. There are still female only careers, which isn't to say men don't enter them, but rather that men don't keep the same image of masculinity by entering them.
Women don't have the same stygma when they enter a men's field. I'll grant you a few exceptions...fields where there still exist the 'boys club' attitude, mostly careers where the prestigous members are older, cheauvenistic men (law, medicine). Engineering and CS, however, doesn't typically suffer from the 'boys club' mentality...if anything, it suffers from a lack of maturity among its members. But that immaturity is a hell of a lot easier to overcome than a bigoted attitude.
Just from talking with the women in my major, they seldom, if ever, found the men in our department giving them a hard time (save asking them out repeatedly). This is, ofcourse, just my personal experience, but I've found similar experiences from my friends in technical majors (read: physics, astronomy, math) at other colleges. I think you're basing your stereotypes on the previous generation or on the odd case, not the general.
I think it would be difficult for any female to walk into a program with a ratio like that.
I don't understand this...why is it hard for a girl to walk into this program? At Virginia Tech, I was a CpE so we took a good portion of the CS courses and had about the same ratio of guys/girls (~200/5). I made a few friends in my classes, including one of the girls, but the majority of my friends that I socialized with were outside of class. I went to class to learn, to pass and, eventually, to get a diploma. That's it. I was a name on the roster sheet.
I didn't have problems with any of the programs, I didn't have problems with the tests so I guess I didn't need to interract with any of the professors. The few I did interact with were the ACM programming team coach (I was on the team), and a few professors who I thought fscked me on tests by asking questions which allowed open ended thinking when they wanted canned responses ("How would *you* solve XYZ problem?").
How rough it is to survive those sort of ratios? How do you figure? Name one instance when sex is a factor? I took a few classes in sociology where the ratio was almost polar opposite...60-80% girls. I loved it, I loved having a different perspective from my own and being able to work in a group with women. The girls that I knew in CpE/CS were flocked with guys that would GLADLY answer their questions if only to speak to a girl IRL.
I really have to discount the statement "girls have a tough time staying in CS" for any reason other than they aren't naturally fit for the coursework and environment. Try to prove otherwise and I'll gladly listen.
This may dupe ADC's post, but I just built a MAME cabinet with an old 20-something" TV and can tell you, from experience, that turning TV's is 'bad'. I originally wanted to built a cocktail table, but had to settle on building an upright because the tv couldn't be moved much more than 15 degrees past the horizontal without color splotching. I think it has to do with how the CRT paints the screen, but I couldn't tell you technical details. All I *can* tell you is turning the TV isn't an option, you'll need to get a monitor if you want to be able to rotate the whole screen.
You're right, I should have said "without Microsoft", not "without Windows". That withstanding, you would have been hardpressed to buy a computer in the mid/late 80s and early 90s that didn't have a Microsoft operating system installed on it. If it wasn't MS-DOS, it was probably licensed from Microsoft. The only occasional exceptions were DRDOS and PCDOS, which you didn't see too terribly often. Yes, there were other OS's that could run games, but they weren't popular, and 99% of the gaming population didn't play games on them, they played on MS platforms.
No flame retardant suit will protect me from this, so I might as well just say it. Bill Gates was one hell of a software innovator, we (the/. crowd) just don't typically like him. Come on, he wrote a cheap, simple OS that was easy for the masses to use. He helped make computers popular by providing a simple interface that my grandmother can figure out. Without Windows, you wouldn't have had Quake or Doom or Civ or any of the other games because they wouldn't have been written...without the home market, those games wouldn't have been economically viable.
A good portion of us owe our careers and hobbies to Gates since he allowed the home user access to a PC with a simple OS. While I don't think his OS is great, his innovation is remarkable.
I'm no doctor, but I'm giving you a presecription to take 2 large doses of reality daily and steer clear of Slashdot for at least a week. Call me if condition worsens.
Try this theory on...things may be able to travel faster than light, but not in the classic sense of the word travel...ie, from point A to point B passing through many infitessimally smalls points inbetween. I've always liked to think of (with no particular scientific proof, mind you) the idea that relative distances can be bridged without passing through all those points inbetween.
Granted, I think way too much like a computer programmer...pixel goes off, pixel goes on.
--trb
Re:Still has shoulder buttons, though.
on
New Gameboy Announced
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
You read my mind. Find one of your friends who's into hacks like this (like me:) and get him to reposition buttons...typically, they're just momentary spst switches, which are easy to either move or replace or duplicate using parts from radioshack. If you want to go a little nicer, order some custom buttons off the web.
I totally agree, Clear Channel buying everything up reduces cost but also quality. Same with any national chain.
The one exception I will give is in DC...DC101 (101.1) is awesome. The morning DJ, Elliot, bashes Clear Channel whenever he gets the chance. Anyone from the DC/MD/NoVa region can back me up on this.
I have no facts to go on, but I have to believe that a single hurricane caused more deaths per year than all the tigers on earth put together. And no, I won't consider gazelles in this body count.
You indirectly highlight something that I've been saying for awhile and others seem to overlook...both of these games are for Nintendo systems. For great games, look no farther than Nintendo, they have the best (if silly looking and kinda quirky) game designs out there. From what I can tell, XBox and PS1/2 were only good for fighting games...Tekken mostly. I enjoyed the Final Fantasy series, but I don't think anything ever beat Dragon Warrior or FF1 on the 8-bit Nintendo.
I don't know why more people don't follow the Nintendo model...they've been spitting out quality games for almost 2 decades. To name a few (that have been mentioned many times before)...Castlevania, Mario anything, Metroid, Zelda anything, Contra. I *still* will play any of these for hours if given enough time without the gf around. They're wonderful and still hold my interest.
this is partly the same argument that can be made for affirmative action and programs like it
I don't like affirmative action, so maybe I'm just destined to disagree with you. But...
I think your analogy to the football game is flawed. Or, at the very least, you're looking at it from the wrong angle. Let's say Team A is MS. They have a nice field, great seats, they sell good beer between quarters. Fans are, ofcourse, going to flock to their stadium because of these things (the fact that they marketed the hell out of the game and put ads up everywhere is beside the point). After awhile, other stadiums (IBM w/ OS2?) are having a difficult time because instead of the plush seats, they went for the hard aluminum ones because they are shiny...they sell different beer, not worse, but the people don't like it as much. Team A's profits go through the roof and the other teams can't afford to keep playing because their costs exceed their stadium's profit. They shut down, or get bought out by Team A and disassembled.
Team B can come play at Team A's field, but they have to go through paper work, get directions to the field, etc. Team A provides some of it's own workers, but it gets other people to come in and sell the beer (Blizzard, EA) and make the pretty signs everywhere (Adobe). Team A has gotten big enough that it can actually just scrimmage itself (.NET), but occasionally people want to see Team A play other teams (Java). Now, the field changes from time (Win98) to time (WinXP). Differnt contours, different lines, but both teams have to play on the same field. Granted, Team A practices there, so they have an upper hand, but if they were to go over to Team B's field (Solaris), they would have the same hard time adjusting.
Occasionally, the stadium will pop up that forces you to bring your own beer (XWindows) and the fans make their own signs (GIMP) and the seats really aren't all that comfortable until you get used to them (KDE/GNOME). But the game has free admission, and there are a LOT of people cheering it on. Team C plays here. Oh, and Team C doesn't get sick and barf in the middle of the game, ever. Team A has a tendency to do that about once a week or so.
The home team always has the advantage, but when it comes to apps, people ARE playing on a level field...they both have to develop for the same OS.
</analogy>
Getting back to the point, you know how pissed off I'd be if someone told me I HAD to bundle someone else's software with my app? That's ridiculous, absolutely preposterous, especially in this day and age of install wizards. Java takes two clicks to install, any moron can do it or have the desired program do it for them.
I think the poster was using a 5yo as an example, not attempting to justify that a 5yo should be given a gun. He wa simply trying to say that it doesn't depend on the kids' age, I know 20 somethings that I wouldn't trust with a handgun, but rather the childs' maturity level. If I were to ever give my child a handgun, I would be damned sure he had been through at least a couple of handgun safety classes and had handled less powerful weapons, such as BB guns and air rifles. I might also give the kid a bow first so he can play around with a weapon that is much harder to kill someone with (I practice archery on a regular basis, shooting one's self in one's foot is quite difficult with a bow).
As if just talking on the phone wasn't bad enough, now I have to worry about the yo-yo in front of me trying to beat his high score in pac-man while driving. Thanks, dude.
In the same light, I didn't see space travel on there...I assume, at some point, we will get off this rock for good...sending some people to live on another planet and colonize. At that point, you're damn sure inter-planetary travel (moon mission) is going to be an important date.
Here's the thing...anyone who is being brought in over the holidays is more than likely operations support, which means they're only there in case one of the servers blows up, essentially. That means there's a LOT of sitting around doing nothing, waiting for a malfunction. Systems integration is probably taken care of and you don't have the devs asking you if they can change the firewall configuration or what not because they're not in. So you're sitting around, required by the contract to have at least 1-n people on staff at all times. It's very boring.
These are probably not people that should be slinging code during this time.
Amen. HGH is used to treat kids who suffer from growth problems, ie, they have stunted growth due to malformed growth plates or the like. They are typically on it for a relatively short period of time, I thought it was supposed to stop before puberty but I could be mistaken.
Creatine is great stuff, I used it in college for a couple of months on/off and had a noticable gain (the best measure I can give you is going up 30-40 pounds in my bench press over the course of about 3 months). I used to stack Creatine with Hydroxycut, and I got great results from that. Hydroxycut gave me the energy to work out after a full day behind a computer, and the creatine added the muscle. Don't do it for long, I think 2-3 months is the longest stretch you're supposed to use it and then cycle off for another 2-3.
Remember, more than anything a healthy diet and workout regimen are the most important parts. If you're taking anything (creatine, andro, hydroxycut...) and not working out or eating crap, you're doing your body a disservice. Good food, LOTS of water and working out are the way to go.
Slashdot Mirror
I have to agree with Mantrid here. Personally, I find it annoying as hell when someone's phone starts ringing in the middle of the overpriced movie I'm watching, but a law isn't the way to go. Give the power to the individual business, they're the ones that should be mandating how their patrons should govern themselves. There's no need for a fine, kicking someone out of a movie they paid 8.50 for is punishment enough, and it doesn't bring Big Brother 1 step closer to controlling us.
--trb
Is this illegal, or just annoying?
How can you even suggest this is illegal? These are default options. I guarantee you would be pissed as a first time user if Apache didn't come with default options. Whether or not this is in the best interest for the consumer is debatable, but easily justifiable by Real. A simple argument would be that the checked boxes provide helpful information to a new user (funny, i know, but bear with me).
This isn't a product where you must provide a legitimate email address to register. You're getting something for nothing, literally, and it was your choice to download. Skeazy, perhaps, but most certainly legal, and not a terribly large pain in the ass. Compare it to other applications out there (Gator comes to mind, that vile, repulsive worm of a legal piece of spyware) and I think you'll find this process is quite pleasant in comparison.
--trb
No, no, no..it doesn't. Because a EULA goes multiple pages does not that mean you are not obligated to obey it because you couldn't read the whole thing. You are responsible, as an end user, for reading all the documentation that is provided. If there are documents referred to by links, it's your responsibility to read those as well.
These are similar to the reasons why people hire lawyers...you don't want to get screwed by some hidden text somewhere that you were too lazy to read, so you have someone else read it for you. Taxes? Same thing, lots of small, hidden text. These are all *legal* documents, they're just obfuscated.
I hate EULA's and the like as much as the next guy, but it's your responsibility as a user to read through stuff that the product provider wants you too. Otherwise, you are subject to their default intentions (which are probably ill, in this case).
--trb
Okay, there was a difference...one, because it was a different TYPE of class (sociology involves a lot more interaction than engineering classes), and two, because I had to work with people, the projects required it (can't have simulated marriages without 2 people). Putting the different feelings aside, I, in many ways, preferred the sociology class because of the girls. They were always willing to help or talk about the subject since they were really interested in it.
While you pointed out the differences between the two classes, I think you just emphasized my point.
Remember that it is far easier in our society for men to enter a class of mostly females than it is for the opposite to occur.
Show me proof of this one. My generation (I'm 24) is possibly the first for the opposite (women entering men's occupation) to be easier, IMHO. It flows from the women's movement and feminism (same? you decide) deciding that it's okay for women to be anything they want. Guys are still stygmatized far more by both sexes than women, who are simply stygmzatized by their own. For instance...how many people know girls who are athletic? Like to play baseball, hockey, soccer, etc. Like to watch sports on tv? Like to play video games? All activities that were tradionally male only. How many men enter fashion design? Now count how many aren't gay. There are still female only careers, which isn't to say men don't enter them, but rather that men don't keep the same image of masculinity by entering them.
Women don't have the same stygma when they enter a men's field. I'll grant you a few exceptions...fields where there still exist the 'boys club' attitude, mostly careers where the prestigous members are older, cheauvenistic men (law, medicine). Engineering and CS, however, doesn't typically suffer from the 'boys club' mentality...if anything, it suffers from a lack of maturity among its members. But that immaturity is a hell of a lot easier to overcome than a bigoted attitude.
Just from talking with the women in my major, they seldom, if ever, found the men in our department giving them a hard time (save asking them out repeatedly). This is, ofcourse, just my personal experience, but I've found similar experiences from my friends in technical majors (read: physics, astronomy, math) at other colleges. I think you're basing your stereotypes on the previous generation or on the odd case, not the general.
--trb
Not to nitpick, because I agree with most of your post, but I don't think I'd be able to recognize *anything* that hit me in the face at Mach 2...
--trb
I think it would be difficult for any female to walk into a program with a ratio like that.
I don't understand this...why is it hard for a girl to walk into this program? At Virginia Tech, I was a CpE so we took a good portion of the CS courses and had about the same ratio of guys/girls (~200/5). I made a few friends in my classes, including one of the girls, but the majority of my friends that I socialized with were outside of class. I went to class to learn, to pass and, eventually, to get a diploma. That's it. I was a name on the roster sheet.
I didn't have problems with any of the programs, I didn't have problems with the tests so I guess I didn't need to interract with any of the professors. The few I did interact with were the ACM programming team coach (I was on the team), and a few professors who I thought fscked me on tests by asking questions which allowed open ended thinking when they wanted canned responses ("How would *you* solve XYZ problem?").
How rough it is to survive those sort of ratios? How do you figure? Name one instance when sex is a factor? I took a few classes in sociology where the ratio was almost polar opposite...60-80% girls. I loved it, I loved having a different perspective from my own and being able to work in a group with women. The girls that I knew in CpE/CS were flocked with guys that would GLADLY answer their questions if only to speak to a girl IRL.
I really have to discount the statement "girls have a tough time staying in CS" for any reason other than they aren't naturally fit for the coursework and environment. Try to prove otherwise and I'll gladly listen.
--trb
This may dupe ADC's post, but I just built a MAME cabinet with an old 20-something" TV and can tell you, from experience, that turning TV's is 'bad'. I originally wanted to built a cocktail table, but had to settle on building an upright because the tv couldn't be moved much more than 15 degrees past the horizontal without color splotching. I think it has to do with how the CRT paints the screen, but I couldn't tell you technical details. All I *can* tell you is turning the TV isn't an option, you'll need to get a monitor if you want to be able to rotate the whole screen.
--trb
AND while, presumably, taking other classes and studying for tests in other courses, having friends, etc?
Whoa...slow down on those assumptions there hoss...
--trb
You're right, I should have said "without Microsoft", not "without Windows". That withstanding, you would have been hardpressed to buy a computer in the mid/late 80s and early 90s that didn't have a Microsoft operating system installed on it. If it wasn't MS-DOS, it was probably licensed from Microsoft. The only occasional exceptions were DRDOS and PCDOS, which you didn't see too terribly often. Yes, there were other OS's that could run games, but they weren't popular, and 99% of the gaming population didn't play games on them, they played on MS platforms.
--trb
No flame retardant suit will protect me from this, so I might as well just say it. Bill Gates was one hell of a software innovator, we (the /. crowd) just don't typically like him. Come on, he wrote a cheap, simple OS that was easy for the masses to use. He helped make computers popular by providing a simple interface that my grandmother can figure out. Without Windows, you wouldn't have had Quake or Doom or Civ or any of the other games because they wouldn't have been written...without the home market, those games wouldn't have been economically viable.
A good portion of us owe our careers and hobbies to Gates since he allowed the home user access to a PC with a simple OS. While I don't think his OS is great, his innovation is remarkable.
--trb
I wonder if they'll play Ogg Vorbis and my DivX;) files ...
:)
HA HA! HOO HOO HOO!
<wipes eyes>
Too funny. Why don't you just ask if they can come with your favorite Linux distro preinstalled too
I'm no doctor, but I'm giving you a presecription to take 2 large doses of reality daily and steer clear of Slashdot for at least a week. Call me if condition worsens.
--trb
Try this theory on...things may be able to travel faster than light, but not in the classic sense of the word travel...ie, from point A to point B passing through many infitessimally smalls points inbetween. I've always liked to think of (with no particular scientific proof, mind you) the idea that relative distances can be bridged without passing through all those points inbetween.
Granted, I think way too much like a computer programmer...pixel goes off, pixel goes on.
--trb
You read my mind. Find one of your friends who's into hacks like this (like me :) and get him to reposition buttons...typically, they're just momentary spst switches, which are easy to either move or replace or duplicate using parts from radioshack. If you want to go a little nicer, order some custom buttons off the web.
--trb
This reminds me of those booths where they guess your age and weight at the carnival...
I think I'm just gonna roll 2 dice, a 20 sided (for the years, in billions) and a 10 sided (for the decimal) and call that *my* estimate. Any takers?
--trb
Irony is the wrong word...hypocrisy is the one you're looking for.
--trb
I totally agree, Clear Channel buying everything up reduces cost but also quality. Same with any national chain.
The one exception I will give is in DC...DC101 (101.1) is awesome. The morning DJ, Elliot, bashes Clear Channel whenever he gets the chance. Anyone from the DC/MD/NoVa region can back me up on this.
--trb
I have no facts to go on, but I have to believe that a single hurricane caused more deaths per year than all the tigers on earth put together. And no, I won't consider gazelles in this body count.
--trb
You indirectly highlight something that I've been saying for awhile and others seem to overlook...both of these games are for Nintendo systems. For great games, look no farther than Nintendo, they have the best (if silly looking and kinda quirky) game designs out there. From what I can tell, XBox and PS1/2 were only good for fighting games...Tekken mostly. I enjoyed the Final Fantasy series, but I don't think anything ever beat Dragon Warrior or FF1 on the 8-bit Nintendo.
I don't know why more people don't follow the Nintendo model...they've been spitting out quality games for almost 2 decades. To name a few (that have been mentioned many times before)...Castlevania, Mario anything, Metroid, Zelda anything, Contra. I *still* will play any of these for hours if given enough time without the gf around. They're wonderful and still hold my interest.
--trb
this is partly the same argument that can be made for affirmative action and programs like it
I don't like affirmative action, so maybe I'm just destined to disagree with you. But...
I think your analogy to the football game is flawed. Or, at the very least, you're looking at it from the wrong angle. Let's say Team A is MS. They have a nice field, great seats, they sell good beer between quarters. Fans are, ofcourse, going to flock to their stadium because of these things (the fact that they marketed the hell out of the game and put ads up everywhere is beside the point). After awhile, other stadiums (IBM w/ OS2?) are having a difficult time because instead of the plush seats, they went for the hard aluminum ones because they are shiny...they sell different beer, not worse, but the people don't like it as much. Team A's profits go through the roof and the other teams can't afford to keep playing because their costs exceed their stadium's profit. They shut down, or get bought out by Team A and disassembled.
Team B can come play at Team A's field, but they have to go through paper work, get directions to the field, etc. Team A provides some of it's own workers, but it gets other people to come in and sell the beer (Blizzard, EA) and make the pretty signs everywhere (Adobe). Team A has gotten big enough that it can actually just scrimmage itself (.NET), but occasionally people want to see Team A play other teams (Java). Now, the field changes from time (Win98) to time (WinXP). Differnt contours, different lines, but both teams have to play on the same field. Granted, Team A practices there, so they have an upper hand, but if they were to go over to Team B's field (Solaris), they would have the same hard time adjusting.
Occasionally, the stadium will pop up that forces you to bring your own beer (XWindows) and the fans make their own signs (GIMP) and the seats really aren't all that comfortable until you get used to them (KDE/GNOME). But the game has free admission, and there are a LOT of people cheering it on. Team C plays here. Oh, and Team C doesn't get sick and barf in the middle of the game, ever. Team A has a tendency to do that about once a week or so.
The home team always has the advantage, but when it comes to apps, people ARE playing on a level field...they both have to develop for the same OS.
</analogy>
Getting back to the point, you know how pissed off I'd be if someone told me I HAD to bundle someone else's software with my app? That's ridiculous, absolutely preposterous, especially in this day and age of install wizards. Java takes two clicks to install, any moron can do it or have the desired program do it for them.
--trb
I think the poster was using a 5yo as an example, not attempting to justify that a 5yo should be given a gun. He wa simply trying to say that it doesn't depend on the kids' age, I know 20 somethings that I wouldn't trust with a handgun, but rather the childs' maturity level. If I were to ever give my child a handgun, I would be damned sure he had been through at least a couple of handgun safety classes and had handled less powerful weapons, such as BB guns and air rifles. I might also give the kid a bow first so he can play around with a weapon that is much harder to kill someone with (I practice archery on a regular basis, shooting one's self in one's foot is quite difficult with a bow).
--trb
As if just talking on the phone wasn't bad enough, now I have to worry about the yo-yo in front of me trying to beat his high score in pac-man while driving. Thanks, dude.
--trb
In the same light, I didn't see space travel on there...I assume, at some point, we will get off this rock for good...sending some people to live on another planet and colonize. At that point, you're damn sure inter-planetary travel (moon mission) is going to be an important date.
--trb
Here's the thing...anyone who is being brought in over the holidays is more than likely operations support, which means they're only there in case one of the servers blows up, essentially. That means there's a LOT of sitting around doing nothing, waiting for a malfunction. Systems integration is probably taken care of and you don't have the devs asking you if they can change the firewall configuration or what not because they're not in. So you're sitting around, required by the contract to have at least 1-n people on staff at all times. It's very boring.
These are probably not people that should be slinging code during this time.
--trb
Amen. HGH is used to treat kids who suffer from growth problems, ie, they have stunted growth due to malformed growth plates or the like. They are typically on it for a relatively short period of time, I thought it was supposed to stop before puberty but I could be mistaken.
Creatine is great stuff, I used it in college for a couple of months on/off and had a noticable gain (the best measure I can give you is going up 30-40 pounds in my bench press over the course of about 3 months). I used to stack Creatine with Hydroxycut, and I got great results from that. Hydroxycut gave me the energy to work out after a full day behind a computer, and the creatine added the muscle. Don't do it for long, I think 2-3 months is the longest stretch you're supposed to use it and then cycle off for another 2-3.
Remember, more than anything a healthy diet and workout regimen are the most important parts. If you're taking anything (creatine, andro, hydroxycut...) and not working out or eating crap, you're doing your body a disservice. Good food, LOTS of water and working out are the way to go.
--trb