He tried to download an MP3. If it was from a legit legal service, he would have to pay for it. That company would be sued, and under investigation, not him.
What he did was used something free like limewire etc to download potentially illegal content. This was a poor decision. It's like as if you decided to purchase 'medicine' from a dealer in a back ally, never know what you'll get, likely not advil.'
"Use our super mega cloud service, we are hosting teh internetz" "Oh teh noes, an extra day *melts*"
I'd understand it if it was software that ran on a single pc, can be worked around or other things, takes updates etc, but when you're trying to be the internet, I expect better. It's a multimillion or billion dollar service. Get your shit together.
It's charged to their cable account, and can only be ordered from the set top box, within the house. So unless ninja's broke in and ordered some adult content, it was you. Also - lot of people have pin codes for ordering. That means they also ninja'd your pin code.
Also being busted they do claim that the box must have malfunctioned. Sometimes their teenage kids order it.
The most common scenario is, they watched it for 3 minutes, they're "good" now, and don't want to pay the cost for renting adult content.
It is far, far, FAR from an extremely rare case, it happens quite a bit. Clearly you've never worked for a cable company:) Good try though.
P.S We can actually tell how long the content was watched for. 3 minutes was based on real data, not a figurative number.
Only reasonable solution would be for paypal to charge the distributor all costs associated with the charge back for paypals processing time, any fees paypal occurs, etc.
I bet the distributor would drop paypal like a rock if they did that.
If so many people didn't "use" the content until a sudden "drop in hormones" then demand a refund it wouldn't be an issue. Don't blame paypal, blame people who abuse the system.
(I worked for an ISP once who also provided cable, lot of people wanted to refund adult content if their night didn't turn out as planned, or after watching 3 minutes of it if you know what I mean)
Except that I need to be alert and awake for my job so I have to cram as much sleep in as possible to make it through the day, and if I want any time after work to do anything I can't afford to nap.
I know government/work would love if all I did was go to work, come home, nap a bit, get up, do a bit of laundry, make dinner, go to bed, go back to work and repeat.
Unfortunately for them, I'm not a slave. So until they adjust what they want me to do to fit with napping / segmented sleep, it's too bad.
Anyone notice anything related to family often has female lawyers, female judges, female social workers etc?
Talk about gender discrimination. It's not okay for there to be plenty of men in a place where a lot of control is, but it's fine if it's all women? I think not. It's proven time and time again that both sides equally discriminate and it needs to stop.
What? You going to parent that kid now too? Let me teach you something about respect. It's a sign of gross disrespect to assume that someone has no respect for a FKING PIECE OF PAPER (Yea I said it, Oh teh noes I should neveer travelz anywheresz! I 'm teh badz!) with an electronic chip to travel.
You should be immediately let go from your job. The ability to move around the country is a privy is a joke. That's like saying you're automatically on city arrest or country arrest unless you earn the privledge to leave.
You working for that company is a privledge and you just abused it as far as I'm concerned. I understand preventing people from leaving countries if they're criminals, you're preventing your mess from spreading or them avoiding prosecution but seriously. I'm shocked an disgusted. That's like saying don't give me a dirty look or I'll screw you life up.
That's the same thing as if I said you just lost the privledge to not be punched in the face for being an ass.
Here's the thing about 'cracked' software. They remove it's ability to report to home, that's part of the crack, so you can't update and aren't aware that it's running.
So even if it was legal, it's not going to do you any good. Plus it would have to be in the end user license agreement that people accepted before you could legally collect identifiable information.
If someone else removes that EULA and then distributes the software, that one person is bad, but everyone who downloads the software with no EULA wouldn't be liable. They didn't agree to anything.
Upon review I was tired and it made more sense in my head.
First statement was sarcastic and should have been 'Geez, I'm tired of GMO companies and their anti-hippy ways'
My second was also intended to be sarcastic and more presented as 'GMO companies shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves against 'naturalists' who don't do any scientific studies, sit in a forest like area of a city practicing 'natural medicine' in which they have no proper training to diag medical illnesses properly and provide their services for a 'fee'. Sure, has nothing to do with the money, you're just trying to help, right?'
Long story short. I call BS on most 'altenrative medicines' who protests modern day medicine or technology like gmo.
There was a previous article about a gel that help healed bone fractures and other things from weeks into days. Now if you can automatically administer it, soldiers will where suits like in mass effect and wala, the future:P
They shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves against naturalists who do no scientific studies and magically blame problems on anything corporate....for a fee!
Politician could get an RCMP officer removed, but they can't get me fired from my job.
*I* want access to all political figureheads that are within public grasp to allow citizens to access their email and network activities at any time without a warrant to ensure they're not corrupt and looking at child porn themselves. We could have exceptionally disgusting low political heads, and I'm sure we do.
What?! you're not okay with that? I will honestly only use it for watching for cporn and have you arrested. That's it, I promise no political agenda of any kind will come of this! No really, I won't watch for things you're doing that I don't like that aren't related to illegal activities so I can oppose your plans with perfect timing.
GTFO. Get a warrant. Warrants for that reason should be instant anyway. I can't see a judge going 'You want a warrant for suspected child abuse? Let me think about it'
I want EVERYTHING cops do documented and approved. They have shown TIME and TIME again that they CANNOT be left up to their own devices. They have abused it, not all of them, but individual RCMP members. We cannot give the same people who may abuse it more power such as this. Next they check emails on ex's or spy on their kids, or harass the guy who flipped off the cop when passing by in a situation where the cop was a dick but couldn't issue a ticket.
No thanks.
If anything - make it speedier for police to have access to warrants in relation to such content with judges.
More like 'Help we're stranded in orbit and need assistance'
Kind of like having a special airport with a c5 galaxy ready to launch in case a bunch of nasa employees are on a commercial flight and crashed on an island where for some unexplainable reason is suitable for the c5 galaxy to safely land and pick them up to rescue them.
Take an old tabletop arcade game, one with controls below on each side, glass flat in the middle that's the screen. Replace with touch screen. Put in old cheap mobo etc. Load custom distro / windows base in kiosk mode - solved.
You're only out the time to find the husk of the old arcade machine they were throwing out, the cost of the touch screen, a cheap computer and labor putting it together (software too)
Tablet idea just seems...poor. When everyone has a small tablet on them and some sort of auto link function to services available near them, it might be handy for them then to have their own tablets link to that information but..yeah.
Need for speed - story made me feel like I was being chased and a bad ass car driver. Gameplay was good, but the story really added to it. (Newer versions)
Mass effect 1 & 2 (I still dream of 3). When people are all oh..oh..it's shepard. I feel badass. Then when people shoot at me, I feel like I don't take shit from anyone, and I run up, beat them down with my gun, shoot the next guy, lift one up and toss him over a railing. Game play is great, and the story really added to the atmosphere.
The ending with tali was very emotional, I *can't* wait to proceed further and get more story, and I love the gameplay still, but I MUST have more story. It's increidlby epic and enriches games in untold ways. Thank you bio. I did not pirate your games, I bought them, because I love you.
There are games out there that are more story than gameplay - those can start to suck. What it's all about is balance. You need enough engaging story to get players fired up and paying attention, then toss the power into their hands to create the story and play.
If you haven't noticed a lot of 'scary' things in this world are considered fun. Ever seen sky diving or bungee jumping?
I have many choices. I choose to be amused by it rather than scared of it, or indifferent to it. Life's too short to not to try and enjoy everything that happens. Some things are impossible, others don't directly affect me so I'll make do.
Plus all I see usually are large greedy companies getting it stuck to them hard. I don't mind seeing that a bit. I consider our government like that too.
Not going to be used even remotely for what it should be excluding heavy machinery (which would be very valueable).
They'll use it to monitor performance levels. Employee's often perform less work when tired than when awake and alert. Stores will want to use them to monitor sales associates and so on. They can also tell then if you're coming into work tired and use these metrics in determining if they should let you go.
"Hmm..sales are bad this month. Could just be a slow month for retail....oh hey..look...jim's been really tried this month. I guess he's just not performing, that's what sales aren't working. Heck, with all this sopa and people definitely always want our products no matter what so clearly piracy is the only thing that hurts profits it must be jims fault"
(Sorry about the slight derailment into sopa, screw you large companies, half your content sucks and isn't worth buying and wouldn't be bought either way)
How about you stop over selling and restrict everyone's data usage to what you can support if everyone wanted to use data every month and show what your network really is, instead of hiding its limitations by enabling super high speeds saying "Hey we're super awesome and have great prices" show that your tech isn't that far and charges realistic prices. Selling it for 40$ for all this data or whatever, praying they don't actually USE what they said they good.
Maybe you should stop using gimmicks like unlimited data usage to trick people into your service.
At what point did I say I pirate anything? Have you ever used netflix? You pay for that. I just don't buy the individual movies. Also I stared that I played said games while visiting others who own them.
So read the damn post before you assume I'm immediately a pirate. I'm just Canadian and sick of paying ridicious prices for medicore content that's crap, taxes being wasted on the government dealing with people who want things like SOPA, and the implications that stretch far beyond stopping 'pirates' You realize that competitors could shut down sights without proof? Sure you could get back up and running, but the damage is done.
Wait, maybe you're a SOPA lobbyist. What's next? You want to make it illegal for me to go on my friends computer to play a game she bought, or play xbox games if I don't own them too? Did you consider that the statement of piracy?
I'm not saying to not deal with piracy or ignore it all together, I didn't give an opinion on that and I'm still not. I just don't like these entities and what they're trying to do, and I almost hope it does pass everywhere, and it strangles their business until their doors close.
To be honest, more people probably buy CDs because they have ways of listening to the music to see if they like it like youtube. So they want a high quality copy to listen to or rip to their pc.
But if you think the mystery box content where you give your money up with no idea that any of it is of quality, well, fine, where do you live? I have a mystery box for you to buy, it could be totally awesome, or totally lame, only 1000$.
When someone gets sued for $5000 for downloading 4 songs and by p2p someone else in turned downloaded it from then, is using imaginary data. This shows exactly why theses laws are bad. The punishment doesn't fit the crime, they imagined all those people would have actually bought the song. They're not your customers, never were, likely never will be.
P.S I think I should sue them. They have a lot of content that's crap and they keep distributing it. I know I'd refund all of it, So they owe me money based on imaginary data too.
You can't FORCE people to buy your product. You need to make your product desirable to buy!
Half the industry in any sector is doing this now. We're tired of being ripped off by paying to watch crappy movies, buy an entire CD when only one song is good, buy a video game to play it for five minutes then realize it sucks and so fourth. Demos are virtually gone, trailers are misleading, prices are higher out here for everything.
There have been movies streamed off the net I've watched. I was bored and had nothing to do. You assume I would buy it, some of these movies are TERRIBLE and I would have never bought it in the first place. I'd just find something else to do. You keep assuming any person who ever watched or listened to your content would have immediately bought it giving you $$$. You're wrong, so wrong.
I've played video games before buying them, like Mass Effect. After that I immediately bought it, and the second one as soon as it came out, and will immediately buy the 3rd as soon as it comes out too. That's because it was a quality product and I loved it.
I did the same thing with Starcraft 2, played it at a friends, loved it, bought it. I didn't buy it at release because I wasn't sure if I'd enjoy it.
I still haven't purchased SWTOR because I don't know if it's that good, I saw a few videos, haven't played it. For the cost versus time playing it, not worth it to me right now.
If I could play the first few levels to try it out and see if I like it, I might buy it. I work for my bloody money and I'm tired of every single person thinking their product is so good that they deserve some of my money!
So many artists would be ignored, people would not buy their music, or listen to it that much, watch movies by directors, go out to theater, recommend it to other people if the restrictions where always 100% you have to get some of my money before I get to know if it's worth it.
People would just do other things more and spend less time with digital media.
Actually, this could be doing society a FAVOR, we'll stop giving as much money to these corporations, spend more time at bars socializing or going to events. Then we'd spend less money on huge TV's since we use it less, less on hard drives to store media, less on monitors.
I'm not saying it'd kill the industry, but they have this magic preconception that suddenly sales would super boom. They forget that people are strangled by high rents, gas prices and low wage jobs and that's a big chunk of why their crap isn't selling.
Slashdot Mirror
Here's the problem.
He tried to download an MP3. If it was from a legit legal service, he would have to pay for it.
That company would be sued, and under investigation, not him.
What he did was used something free like limewire etc to download potentially illegal content. This was a poor decision.
It's like as if you decided to purchase 'medicine' from a dealer in a back ally, never know what you'll get, likely not advil.'
I'd prefer 50 or lower, I probably couldn't argue below 100, above 100? Yeah, I'm going to make a fuss.
If there server gives me that as a min, it'll only escalate in other programs, which I'd use that against them.
Yea...but
"Use our super mega cloud service, we are hosting teh internetz"
"Oh teh noes, an extra day *melts*"
I'd understand it if it was software that ran on a single pc, can be worked around or other things, takes updates etc, but when you're trying to be the internet, I expect better. It's a multimillion or billion dollar service. Get your shit together.
ISP -= set top cable box.
It's charged to their cable account, and can only be ordered from the set top box, within the house.
So unless ninja's broke in and ordered some adult content, it was you.
Also - lot of people have pin codes for ordering. That means they also ninja'd your pin code.
Also being busted they do claim that the box must have malfunctioned.
Sometimes their teenage kids order it.
The most common scenario is, they watched it for 3 minutes, they're "good" now, and don't want to pay the cost for renting adult content.
It is far, far, FAR from an extremely rare case, it happens quite a bit. :) Good try though.
Clearly you've never worked for a cable company
P.S We can actually tell how long the content was watched for. 3 minutes was based on real data, not a figurative number.
Only reasonable solution would be for paypal to charge the distributor all costs associated with the charge back for paypals processing time, any fees paypal occurs, etc.
I bet the distributor would drop paypal like a rock if they did that.
So...yeah.
If so many people didn't "use" the content until a sudden "drop in hormones" then demand a refund it wouldn't be an issue.
Don't blame paypal, blame people who abuse the system.
(I worked for an ISP once who also provided cable, lot of people wanted to refund adult content if their night didn't turn out as planned, or after watching 3 minutes of it if you know what I mean)
Always feared that. I'm hoping we're smart enough to revolt and fight it.
Well, I'll try to be on the top at least.
Need space travel - planet is starting to suck.
Except that I need to be alert and awake for my job so I have to cram as much sleep in as possible to make it through the day, and if I want any time after work to do anything I can't afford to nap.
I know government/work would love if all I did was go to work, come home, nap a bit, get up, do a bit of laundry, make dinner, go to bed, go back to work and repeat.
Unfortunately for them, I'm not a slave. So until they adjust what they want me to do to fit with napping / segmented sleep, it's too bad.
Anyone notice anything related to family often has female lawyers, female judges, female social workers etc?
Talk about gender discrimination. It's not okay for there to be plenty of men in a place where a lot of control is, but it's fine if it's all women? I think not. It's proven time and time again that both sides equally discriminate and it needs to stop.
What? You going to parent that kid now too? Let me teach you something about respect. It's a sign of gross disrespect to assume that someone has no respect for a FKING PIECE OF PAPER (Yea I said it, Oh teh noes I should neveer travelz anywheresz! I 'm teh badz!) with an electronic chip to travel.
You should be immediately let go from your job. The ability to move around the country is a privy is a joke. That's like saying you're automatically on city arrest or country arrest unless you earn the privledge to leave.
You working for that company is a privledge and you just abused it as far as I'm concerned. I understand preventing people from leaving countries if they're criminals, you're preventing your mess from spreading or them avoiding prosecution but seriously. I'm shocked an disgusted. That's like saying don't give me a dirty look or I'll screw you life up.
That's the same thing as if I said you just lost the privledge to not be punched in the face for being an ass.
Here's the thing about 'cracked' software. They remove it's ability to report to home, that's part of the crack, so you can't update and aren't aware that it's running.
So even if it was legal, it's not going to do you any good. Plus it would have to be in the end user license agreement that people accepted before you could legally collect identifiable information.
If someone else removes that EULA and then distributes the software, that one person is bad, but everyone who downloads the software with no EULA wouldn't be liable. They didn't agree to anything.
Upon review I was tired and it made more sense in my head.
First statement was sarcastic and should have been 'Geez, I'm tired of GMO companies and their anti-hippy ways'
My second was also intended to be sarcastic and more presented as 'GMO companies shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves against 'naturalists' who don't do any scientific studies, sit in a forest like area of a city practicing 'natural medicine' in which they have no proper training to diag medical illnesses properly and provide their services for a 'fee'. Sure, has nothing to do with the money, you're just trying to help, right?'
Long story short. I call BS on most 'altenrative medicines' who protests modern day medicine or technology like gmo.
I keep seeing references to tech in mass effect.
There was a previous article about a gel that help healed bone fractures and other things from weeks into days. :P
Now if you can automatically administer it, soldiers will where suits like in mass effect and wala, the future
I'm tired of GMO's and there anti-hippy ways.
They shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves against naturalists who do no scientific studies and magically blame problems on anything corporate....for a fee!
Politician could get an RCMP officer removed, but they can't get me fired from my job.
*I* want access to all political figureheads that are within public grasp to allow citizens to access their email and network activities at any time without a warrant
to ensure they're not corrupt and looking at child porn themselves. We could have exceptionally disgusting low political heads, and I'm sure we do.
What?! you're not okay with that? I will honestly only use it for watching for cporn and have you arrested. That's it, I promise no political agenda of any kind will come of this! No really, I won't watch for things you're doing that I don't like that aren't related to illegal activities so I can oppose your plans with perfect timing.
GTFO. Get a warrant. Warrants for that reason should be instant anyway.
I can't see a judge going 'You want a warrant for suspected child abuse? Let me think about it'
I want EVERYTHING cops do documented and approved. They have shown TIME and TIME again that they CANNOT be left up to their own devices. They have abused it, not all of them, but individual RCMP members. We cannot give the same people who may abuse it more power such as this. Next they check emails on ex's or spy on their kids, or harass the guy who flipped off the cop when passing by in a situation where the cop was a dick but couldn't issue a ticket.
No thanks.
If anything - make it speedier for police to have access to warrants in relation to such content with judges.
More like 'Help we're stranded in orbit and need assistance'
Kind of like having a special airport with a c5 galaxy ready to launch in case a bunch of nasa employees are on a commercial flight and crashed on an island where for some unexplainable reason is suitable for the c5 galaxy to safely land and pick them up to rescue them.
Take an old tabletop arcade game, one with controls below on each side, glass flat in the middle that's the screen.
Replace with touch screen.
Put in old cheap mobo etc.
Load custom distro / windows base in kiosk mode - solved.
You're only out the time to find the husk of the old arcade machine they were throwing out, the cost of the touch screen, a cheap computer and labor putting it together (software too)
Tablet idea just seems...poor. When everyone has a small tablet on them and some sort of auto link function to services available near them, it might be handy for them then to have their own tablets link to that information but..yeah.
Need for speed - story made me feel like I was being chased and a bad ass car driver. Gameplay was good, but the story really added to it. (Newer versions)
Mass effect 1 & 2 (I still dream of 3). When people are all oh..oh..it's shepard. I feel badass. Then when people shoot at me, I feel like I don't take shit from anyone, and I run up, beat them down with my gun, shoot the next guy, lift one up and toss him over a railing.
Game play is great, and the story really added to the atmosphere.
The ending with tali was very emotional, I *can't* wait to proceed further and get more story, and I love the gameplay still, but I MUST have more story.
It's increidlby epic and enriches games in untold ways.
Thank you bio. I did not pirate your games, I bought them, because I love you.
There are games out there that are more story than gameplay - those can start to suck. What it's all about is balance.
You need enough engaging story to get players fired up and paying attention, then toss the power into their hands to create the story and play.
If you haven't noticed a lot of 'scary' things in this world are considered fun. Ever seen sky diving or bungee jumping?
I have many choices. I choose to be amused by it rather than scared of it, or indifferent to it. Life's too short to not to try and enjoy everything that happens.
Some things are impossible, others don't directly affect me so I'll make do.
Plus all I see usually are large greedy companies getting it stuck to them hard. I don't mind seeing that a bit. I consider our government like that too.
That sounds exactly like medi-gel from mass effect, which is super awesome.
Now we just need mass effect cores and we'll be good.
But either way it's still fun to watch what Anonymous gets up to ;)
Not going to be used even remotely for what it should be excluding heavy machinery (which would be very valueable).
They'll use it to monitor performance levels. Employee's often perform less work when tired than when awake and alert. Stores will want to use them to monitor sales associates and so on. They can also tell then if you're coming into work tired and use these metrics in determining if they should let you go.
"Hmm..sales are bad this month. Could just be a slow month for retail....oh hey..look...jim's been really tried this month. I guess he's just not performing, that's what sales aren't working. Heck, with all this sopa and people definitely always want our products no matter what so clearly piracy is the only thing that hurts profits it must be jims fault"
(Sorry about the slight derailment into sopa, screw you large companies, half your content sucks and isn't worth buying and wouldn't be bought either way)
How about you stop over selling and restrict everyone's data usage to what you can support if everyone wanted to use data every month and show what your network really is, instead of hiding its limitations by enabling super high speeds saying "Hey we're super awesome and have great prices" show that your tech isn't that far and charges realistic prices. Selling it for 40$ for all this data or whatever, praying they don't actually USE what they said they good.
Maybe you should stop using gimmicks like unlimited data usage to trick people into your service.
Interesting...
At what point did I say I pirate anything? Have you ever used netflix? You pay for that. I just don't buy the individual movies. Also I stared that I played said games while visiting others who own them.
So read the damn post before you assume I'm immediately a pirate. I'm just Canadian and sick of paying ridicious prices for medicore content that's crap, taxes being wasted on the government dealing with people who want things like SOPA, and the implications that stretch far beyond stopping 'pirates' You realize that competitors could shut down sights without proof? Sure you could get back up and running, but the damage is done.
Wait, maybe you're a SOPA lobbyist. What's next? You want to make it illegal for me to go on my friends computer to play a game she bought, or play xbox games if I don't own them too? Did you consider that the statement of piracy?
I'm not saying to not deal with piracy or ignore it all together, I didn't give an opinion on that and I'm still not. I just don't like these entities and what they're trying to do, and I almost hope it does pass everywhere, and it strangles their business until their doors close.
To be honest, more people probably buy CDs because they have ways of listening to the music to see if they like it like youtube. So they want a high quality copy to listen to or rip to their pc.
But if you think the mystery box content where you give your money up with no idea that any of it is of quality, well, fine, where do you live? I have a mystery box for you to buy, it could be totally awesome, or totally lame, only 1000$.
When someone gets sued for $5000 for downloading 4 songs and by p2p someone else in turned downloaded it from then, is using imaginary data. This shows exactly why theses laws are bad. The punishment doesn't fit the crime, they imagined all those people would have actually bought the song.
They're not your customers, never were, likely never will be.
P.S I think I should sue them. They have a lot of content that's crap and they keep distributing it. I know I'd refund all of it, So they owe me money based on imaginary data too.
You can't FORCE people to buy your product. You need to make your product desirable to buy!
Half the industry in any sector is doing this now. We're tired of being ripped off by paying to watch crappy movies, buy an entire CD when only one song is good, buy a video game to play it for five minutes then realize it sucks and so fourth. Demos are virtually gone, trailers are misleading, prices are higher out here for everything.
There have been movies streamed off the net I've watched. I was bored and had nothing to do. You assume I would buy it, some of these movies are TERRIBLE and I would have never bought it in the first place. I'd just find something else to do. You keep assuming any person who ever watched or listened to your content would have immediately bought it giving you $$$. You're wrong, so wrong.
I've played video games before buying them, like Mass Effect. After that I immediately bought it, and the second one as soon as it came out, and will immediately buy the 3rd as soon as it comes out too. That's because it was a quality product and I loved it.
I did the same thing with Starcraft 2, played it at a friends, loved it, bought it. I didn't buy it at release because I wasn't sure if I'd enjoy it.
I still haven't purchased SWTOR because I don't know if it's that good, I saw a few videos, haven't played it. For the cost versus time playing it, not worth it to me right now.
If I could play the first few levels to try it out and see if I like it, I might buy it. I work for my bloody money and I'm tired of every single person thinking their product is so good that they deserve some of my money!
So many artists would be ignored, people would not buy their music, or listen to it that much, watch movies by directors, go out to theater, recommend it to other people if the restrictions where always 100% you have to get some of my money before I get to know if it's worth it.
People would just do other things more and spend less time with digital media.
Actually, this could be doing society a FAVOR, we'll stop giving as much money to these corporations, spend more time at bars socializing or going to events.
Then we'd spend less money on huge TV's since we use it less, less on hard drives to store media, less on monitors.
I'm not saying it'd kill the industry, but they have this magic preconception that suddenly sales would super boom. They forget that people are strangled by high rents, gas prices and low wage jobs and that's a big chunk of why their crap isn't selling.