Slashdot Mirror
Damaged US Passport Chip Strands Travelers
caseih writes "Damaging the embedded chip in your passport is now grounds for denying you the ability to travel in at least one airport in the U.S. Though the airport can slide the passport through the little number reader as easily as they can wave it in front of an RFID reader, they chose to deny a young child access to the flight, in essence denying the whole family. The child had accidentally sat on his passport, creasing the cover, and the passport appeared worn. The claim has been made that breaking the chip in the passport shows that you disrespect the privilege of owning a passport, and that the airport was justified in denying this child from using the passport."
TFA states that it was an airline official who refused to allow the passenger to board, not an agent of the government. It's still galling, but let's express our discontent where it belongs.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
They are after money... They know people broke them for personal privacy, and as a way to strike back against privacy they are making you buy a new one...
“This is done for national security, for whatever reason they can’t make an exception, period,”
They flew from Denver to Dallas without a problem, then were stopped in Dallas. If they can't make an exception, why were they allowed to get on the first plane?
Is 1563649 a prime number?
I immediately destroyed the RFID chip in my passport.
I stomped the shit out of it, hammered it, and threw it in the microwave.
Paper
Can survive being crushed, sat on, folded, spun, submerged in water, thrown up on, run over by a car, heated to several hundred degrees, frozen to near absolute zero, exposed to intense radiation, and the data stored on paper can be read with no special tools under a wide variety of environmental conditions, or using simple tools like a 'lens', can be read at distances of up to several hundred feet or more.
RFID
Can be used with a scanner that has a range of only a few inches. If any part of the chip is damaged, the data is irretrievable. Costs more than paper. Can be destroyed in everyday use, including sitting on it, folding it, getting it wet, etc.
Which one would you pick for storing sensitive information which, if made inaccessible, has the potential to prevent you from ever seeing your loved ones, your home, or any of your possessions again?
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I was traveling alone, but I've gotten similar crap from a AA rep with a bur up his butt or something. This was pre-chip passport, but my well traveled 9 1/2 year old passport was slightly bowed from being placed in my pocket. He said basically the same thing as the article, that it shows a disrespect for the document and that I should keep it in a necklace type holder or somewhere else other than my back pocket. This same passport was never questioned by a government official in any country I traveled too. I waited for the douche to go on break and then proceeded to check in without incident by another agent. He would probably be one to charge folks an excessive baggage fee if one of their bags was 1 oz over regulation as well.
Anybody remembers that scene from the Sting (1973) when Johny Hooker (Robert Redford) tucks money in Mottola pants and says Ain't no hard guy in the world gonna frisk ya there?
Enter TSA.
When it became known that the new passports used RFID chips, and people discussed ways that they could be surreptitiously read (and hacked) at a distance, I believe the government said the RFID chips couldn't be read if the passport was closed.
Does anyone know if that is true? Or was that just something said to placate the public? (I figure it might be ok to use passports if this were true, hopefully the only time you'd need to open your passport would be at a government controlled facility which would presumably reduce the chance a hacker would be able to operate unnoticed).
Wait, does this mean if we accidentally fry our passport chip somehow, we won't be able to, say, reenter the country? o.O
(Hah, captcha: felony)
Just get hold of their passport for a few seconds, break the chip and people get problems all over. I'd call that a very slow form of a DoS :-//
cb
The travel guy they interview has one thing right and one thing wrong...
Not all passports have RFID chips in them. That didn't start until 2006. Mine has no such chip in it. No problems at all with it. Even without the RFID chip, the passport is machine readable (that's the barcode on the picture page). It won't be until 2016 that all US passports--that is, when the old ones all expire, finally--will be biometric/RFID. So I don't see why they should refuse someone who's RFID chip doesn't work, given that other people will be allowed on without one too.
But he is right that the passport is property of the US government. It says that in the document somewhere.
A colleague of mine had major problems with Delta and his visa. He was going to China, and had a return flight 60 days after he left. His visa was only good to stay 30 days. They refused to let him on the plane. Of course, he had planned to go to Hong Kong after 28 days, stay for 3, and then return to mainland China (possible with his multiple entry visa), all of which is fully legal. Delta didn't care and made him change his flight (and pay to do so). He then had to pay a second time to change it back once he got to China. His CC refunded the fees, but it was still unnecessary hassle.
The major issue: airlines are NOT immigrations officials! They do have some responsibility, of course. They don't want people getting on planes without passports, only to have them sent back home immediately. Still, on judgment calls like validity of visa and travel plans, they should not have final say in the matter. That's not their job. They don't always get it right.
The family may have made a mistake not immediately calling for a customs agent to get involved. The airline could easily take them downstairs, where there's dozens of immigrations officers, any of whom could make the judgment. There's also probably a supervisor there who gets final say. Why were those people not called in to decide the validity of the passport?
“To have a passport is privilege, it’s not entitled to you by citizenship,” Priest said. He said the issue may be with a microchip embedded in the back of all new passports. “They have no reason in the world to let you travel if it’s been damaged,” Priest said. “It’s like cutting your photo out or something if that chip doesn’t work.” Come on, does US hates its citizens that much? I mean they make a document with a chip which can be broken by just sitting on it and then they deny flight? This must be diminishing experience to be a US citizen these days...
When the funeral of this notty, notty misbehabing child is scheduled?
Stand up! Sit straight! No smiling! Keep your mouth shut!
I know this will go unheeded because it's what people don't want to hear, but the US Government had nothing to do with this case.
The child was denied clearance by an airline employee, not an actual customs agent. And the person who claims that a damaged passport is "disrespect" to the privilege of holding a passport is some whackjob I've never heard of who owns a small business that specializes in... wait for it... passports and visas! The online ratings for this guy's business classify him as a Grade A jackass, as well.
This is an overblown, almost-manufactured attempt at criticizing the government for its national security policies. It's really much more akin to blaming the local beef farmer because my steak was overcooked.
You need to read the MRZ (machine-readable section of the page with the photo) of the passport as the key to unlock the encryption of the chip. You can't get that with it closed (unless you already know the owner's name, birth date, passport number, etc.).
I've backpacked around a lot of countries and I'm telling you that it is not easy to keep a passport in perfect condition especially if you try to keep on yourself all the time (recommended in a lot of countries). Various factors that put a beating on it include rain season, keeping it your pocket, perspiration, tight jeans (lol), and much much more!
From TFS: The claim has been made that breaking the chip in the passport shows that you disrespect the privilege of owning a passport, and that the airport was justified in denying this child from using the passport.
"The claim has been made", eh? Citation needed. Who made this claim? I RTFA and that line does not appear. I watched the video linked in TFA and that line was not spoken.
If this is really a statement from someone in the US Government, then who said it, and when?
My blood began to boil at the thought of someone in government saying such a thing. If this quote is true, this person is saying a passport is more precious than the flag of the USA, because there are at least some circumstances where it is legal to destroy a flag. But the whole passive voice thing and the total lack of attribution makes me wonder if this isn't just a made-up quote.
If it's for real, give us a real cite. Let's get a tidal wave of negative publicity pointed at the person who said this.
If it's not for real, let's not get all excited over nothing.
P.S. TFA quoted some guy as saying that the government has "no reason in the world" to let you fly if the passport has a damaged chip. He likened it to a passport with the photo cut out. But I don't really know exactly who this guy is or why we should give his opinion any weight. I don't know what the actual government policy is on a passport that is clearly readable, with numbers and barcodes and such all intact but a damaged chip; it's hard to imagine that this is the actual official government policy. And if it is, I'd like a citation of that, please.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
A US passport is still a valid federal document for the purpose of identification whether the RFID chip is broken or not.
I am not a lawyer but I think they have grounds to sue the airline for damages and I hope they do.
Anyone wanting to leave a 4th World country would I guess?
The US is a 4th world country these days.
The claim has been made that breaking the chip in the passport shows that you disrespect the privilege of owning a passport, and that the airport was justified in denying this child from using the passport.
Well, that's a stupid fucking claim. Saying that one should respect an easily (relatively) replaceable inanimate object or lose a fundamental right is just the most pants-on-head stupid thing I've ever heard.
It's the kind of thing someone too stupid to understand abstract ideas views the world: "Oh, they want to burn the flag, that means they hate America" while being all the while unaware that prohibiting the exercise of free speech like flag burning is anathema to the founding principles of the US.
It's also stupid on its face - what possible benefit is gained from RFID other than convenience for immigration officials, and in what universe does that minor convenience outweigh the rights of citizens to travel or not?
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
IANAL but I would be surprised if owning a passport falls under the category of a "privilege." I don't believe the U.S. government can deny a citizen a passport except for statutory cause, such as an outstanding warrant or similar court order against the applicant. If they can't turn you legally deny you a passport without due process, then it seems to me a legal right, not a "privilege."
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
...Right up until they don't. Of course the bourgeoisie's tiresome "think of the children" excuse doesn't fool the educated or enlightened, but I'm consistently amazed at how transparent their bullshit is. They obviously couldn't possibly care about anything less than they do children - with the possible exception of brown people, I suppose. Why can't everyone see it? (rhetorical)
If the government had not have created this police state, then airlines wouldn't give a damn.
This is my sig.
The law disagrees completely - http://law.justia.com/cfr/title22/22-1.0.1.6.33.5.5.1.html. Note there are grounds for denying a passport, but there are also grounds for puttting you in prison - that doesn't mean not being in prison is a priviledge.
Or if you prefer statements made to the public of how the government interpretes the law:
- http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppi/family/family_864.html
Heck it uses the word "entitled"!
The pasport's chip was damaged. It could be very well changed or stolen with unlawful intent. It wasn't working. Period. So much for asking for a re-issue, thus a "first world problem". Move on, guys.
Carlos Niebla
"The major issue: airlines are NOT immigrations officials!", no but i know that when i used to Travel to Asia , if you didn't have the correct visa or was ineligible for a landing visa, the Airline you arrived on was responsible for returning you and they would have to get that cost from the passenger. So Airlines wont will check the validity or eligibility for a visa/landing visa.
Yes, and you routinely have the photo page of your passport scanned at various devices at the airport. Heaven for skimmers!
Delta-Mike November Bravo Tango
"Privilege my ass!" said the child as he sat on the passport.
Isn't there something in the constitution that lets American Citizens travel freely within all the ehr... about 50 states? I can see that it may be a problem if the family would be traveling international, since knowingly traveling with a "malfunctioning passport" may be interpreted as a non valid passport. You can have your questions about the validity of denying people to travel internationally just because some inferior piece of technology the government insisted on failed, but if it was a national flight, it's downright unconstitutional.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
quoted from http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_2788.html#One
What will happen if my Electronic Passport fails at a port-of-entry?
The chip in the passport is just one of the many security features of the new passport. If the chip fails, the passport remains a valid travel document until its expiration date. You will continue to be processed by the port-of-entry officer as if you had a passport without a chip.
Next you'll be executing 'terrorists' for farting in proximity of a flag.
What does that even mean?
Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
What??
1. What???
2. See number 1.
Passports in the US are good for 10 years. And if you do any amount of traveling they get a fair amount of use. Mine is around 5 years old now and it's showing it's age. Tattered edges, curled a bit. I sit on the thing all the time. I pretty much keep it on my person at all times when traveling. If you can "break" a passport by sitting on it (a child none-the-less!) then there is a serious design problem here.
Hell, I can sit on my phone without breaking the thing!
yvan eht nioj
need I say more
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.
1st world: United States and allies during the cold war.
2nd world: Soviet Union, China, and allies during the cold war.
3rd world: Any nation not listed in the above two categories.
Look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_world
just an analog boy living in a digital age.
I think its a cultural thing. Some cultures get in more of a knot over the sanctity of the tokens than what they represent. Religious texts, flags, UK football colours, to name but a few.
Did anyone actually read the whole story? Misleading headline, slashdot summary, and incorrect comments here.
It wasn't the child's passport with the damaged chip that was the problem. It was the father's passport that was bad.
Still a crappy situation, but much different than "if you have a bad chip in your passport you can't travel"
"Little Kye’s passport has a crease on the back cover, which Gosnell says came from him accidentally sitting on the passport.
His passport was questioned, but not denied. It was Kyle Gosnell’s that was the real problem. It has a small crease on the back cover, and is overall weathered and worn."
It has been demonstrated many times over with the right equipment you can pick up and track RFID signals from significant distances.
Any group seeking to kidnap or kill Americans just needs a few thousand bucks worth of equipment to pluck them out of a crowd or detonate a bomb when a sufficient number are present.
What is the point? RFID technology is far from being hack proof.
Am very confused over who stopped them? AA is paying for their hotels, but they also stopped them?
Oh I get it, you're mentally damaged.
IF you can't summon the intelligence necessary to put two and two together and see just how ridiculously brutal things are getting then nothing can help you. Enjoy the future, yours is almost certainly fraught with ignorance and plight.
According to the State Department's FAQ regarding electronic (i.e. RFID chipped) passports (http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_2788.html#Fourteen)
What will happen if my Electronic Passport fails at a port-of-entry?
The chip in the passport is just one of the many security features of the new passport. If the chip fails, the passport remains a valid travel document until its expiration date. You will continue to be processed by the port-of-entry officer as if you had a passport without a chip.
On top of all that, they don't let you know what size or where the chip is in your passport, so you have no idea how close to broken your passport is. I have one of these passports and there is no way to tell. You can't feel it in the paper.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
USA, you are pathetic...
With assholes like this, no wonder AA is bankrupt.
After hearing about shit like that, I want to see the whole fucking company liquidated, and the execs burned because their stock is worthless.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
What criminals? The panty bomber, who was caught by the passengers on the plane, no harm done? The TSA serves no actual purpose (OK, beyond being a jobs program). It does not make us safer, in any way; not even a little bit safer. So there's not even a "but I want to give up my rights, because I'm a frightened little child" argument to be made here - there's no tradeoff, just government imposition.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
100 years in gitmo will teach that kid some respect.
Kids gotta learn, that this ain't the America of last century.
You're either with the airports, or you're with "them".
Long story short, the State Department's stance is that the cover needs to be open for the RFID chip to be read.
When a third-party publicized how easy it was to read the RFID chips from a distance, State started mailing out special envelopes for passport cards (think "driver's license") to shield the chip when not in use, but said that passport booklets were unaffected so long as they remained closed.
My $100 RFID reader can read my passport at a distance of about 4"
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
COMPLY!
The claim has been made that breaking the chip in the passport shows that you disrespect the privilege of owning a passport, and that the airport was justified in denying this child from using the passport.
The last time I left the US I spent four weeks hiking around in the Dolomites and nearby. Everything I had was in my backpack, I stayed at night in mountain rifugios and hiked around most of every day. I had my passport on my person somewhere at every moment, because what else was I going to do with it? I fell a couple of times, nothing serious, but I did get a few scrapes and bruises, and I'll admit that I was a bit free in tossing my pack (which contained my passport) around.
Now, if the RFID chip can be broken by a child sitting on it, there is an approximately 0% chance that mine would have survived that trip had I had the misfortune of having one in my passport. There would have been no way to avoid it, other than putting the passport in a box filled with bubble wrap and packing peanuts or something else equally absurd. Had I been staying in a hotel and wandering around a town I would have (as per Italian law) left it with the hotel. But this wasn't that sort of trip. There was no way, sort of building some sort of portable armored and padded shrine, that I would have been able to "respect" the passport enough to avoid wrecking the RFID chip, if it really is so easy to break.
If the chip is that much less resilient than the paper that the passports are printed on, they need to come up with something better.
Little Kye’s passport has a crease on the back cover, which Gosnell says came from him accidentally sitting on the passport. His passport was questioned, but not denied. It was Kyle Gosnell’s that was the real problem. It has a small crease on the back cover, and is overall weathered and worn.
The child's passport was NOT denied, it was Kyle (presumably the father) who had the "overall weathered and worn" passport that was denied. It's hard to believe that his passport was so weathered and worn that it couldn't be read so this is probably still an issue of an airline employee with a stick up his ass but TFS is completely wrong and trolling everyone who comments on here enraged. TFA doesn't even say that the RFID chip had ANYTHING to do with his being denied. Parent is absolutely right that the person who is quoted has NOTHING to do with this situation. The local Fox team reporting on this probably Googled someone in the Denver area (not the Dallas area where this whole f'ing thing actually happened) and asked this nutjob for a quote for their story.
PLEASE RTFA before commenting. Slashdot editors, PLEASE edit these retarded submissions before they get our collective panties in a wad.
Why would any intelligent parent give an important legal document to a "young child" anyway? I would never do such a thing. I have 4 kids and I'll only trust them with something like a passport when they exceed age 12 and understand their responsibilities for tracking and caring for said passport.
...if you're going for a car analogy.
http://travel.state.gov/passport/faq/faq_1741.html
Q:My passport has been damaged. Can I continue to use this passport?
a:If your passport has been significantly damaged, especially the book cover or the page displaying your personal data and photo, you will need to apply for a new passport. You will need to submit the following in person (See Where to Apply):
The damaged passport
Form DS-11
All documents required by Form DS-11, including citizenship documentation (i.e. birth certificate)
Water damage, a significant tear, unofficial markings on the data page, missing visa pages (torn out), a hole punch and other injuries may constitute "damage" requiring use of Form DS-11.
Normal wear of a U.S. passport is understandable and likely does not constitute "damage". For instance, the expected bend of a passport after being carried in your back pocket or fanning of the visa pages after extensive opening and closing. In most cases of normal wear, you may renew your passport by mail using Form DS-82.
Please remember, if you try to renew a significantly damaged passport using Form DS-82, you may be asked by the Passport Agency to apply again using Form DS-11 and incur additional fees./
and cited the state department rules link. I feel better. I hope that they read it and do something about it. An am presently an AA rewards member, but may be cancelling soon if they don't respond properly.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
I R'd TFA.
Apply little reading comprehension: It was Kyle, the FATHER, whose passport was denied. NOT the kid's.
OP:
"... they chose to deny a young child access to the flight, in essence denying the whole family."
FTA:
"Little Kye’s passport has a crease on the back cover, which Gosnell says came from him accidentally sitting on the passport. His passport was questioned, but not denied. It was Kyle Gosnell’s that was the real problem. It has a small crease on the back cover, and is overall weathered and worn."
If we're going to infer things then let's infer that the dad's passport was old-school and didn't even have an RFID tag in it since it was described as "[having a] small crease on the back cover, and is overall weathered and worn.
WTFF, Slashdot?
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
A damaged passport is unusable, period.
A passport not capable of being used is unusable. FTFY
Damage without define what "damage" you are talking about, and doesn't infer usability.
Is a small water stain on the cover damage? How about a dirty/dusty passport? What about a crease?
I8-D
The Supreme Court has ruled on the issue of travel, and we are free to do so. There is no freedom without the freedom to travel. But let's forget about that. The idea that travel outside the country is a privilege makes two assumptions. 1, we are prisoners who are kept in, expect when we are allow privileges. 2, that in the US the people don't make the rules and some imaginary force can stop us. The people of the US can make or change any rule. We don't have to put up with travel restrictions if enough people are focused on the issue. Travel bans such as the one on Cuba hardly seem productive. I really hate when people think that a service created to help us should start ordering us around. People like that must have been abused very badly in childhood.
If you now pretty much need a passport in order to efficiently travel across the country, then it's now become an effective right, not a privilege.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
Clearly, you have no idea that the world and its use of language has changed since the Cold War.
Hyperbole is fun, isn't it?
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
What criminals? The panty bomber, who was caught by the passengers on the plane, no harm done? The TSA serves no actual purpose (OK, beyond being a jobs program). It does not make us safer, in any way; not even a little bit safer. So there's not even a "but I want to give up my rights, because I'm a frightened little child" argument to be made here - there's no tradeoff, just government imposition.
Do you think that those uniforms, the scanners, the badges, the epaulettes, the reams of paper, the computers necessary to print out the reams of paper and the people needed to program the computers needed to print out the reams of paper (OK, they probably came from India) aren't helping our economy grow larger and stronger?
This is the free market at work!
Why do you hate America?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Politicians are rational : they don't adopt policies to entice voters unless there are such voters to be enticed. Socialists/Progressives have managed almost all signfiicant institutions in US and European societies for 50+ years. This despite the fact that the socialist parties in the US in the 1920s never got more than 5% of the national vote and never had more than 20 people in Congress. It was a consistent 5% of the vote, and so the other 2 parties adopted policies designed to capture that margin of victory. The consequence was a rapid shift of all politicians into the socialist end of the spectrum. If Libertarians have a consistent 5% of the vote, something that is beginning to be true, we will see an equally rapid shift of both parties to the Lib end of the spectrum.
The average person doesn't have an RFID tag reader, and thus has no way of knowing that their passport has a functional RFID tag or not. What if it got damaged in shipment? Thus, a person could receive a brand new passport in the mail, and have absolutely no idea anything was wrong with it until he got to the airport.
I think the airline stopped them because they did'nt want to honor the tickets at the price they got them for, and so this was the airlines way of skirting around their responsibility.
I can read wikipedia too!!!
Over the last few decades, the term 'Third World' has been used interchangeably with the Global South and Developing Countries to describe poorer countries that have struggled to attain steady economic development.
The Cold War ended in the early 90's.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
Depends. In this scenario, am I the contractor chosen to make the passport, the government agency that has to justify asking for a budget increase next year, or a Senator from a district with an RFID manufacturer in it?
I think you're the terrorist building the IEDs that blow up when they see a US passport. Or maybe the one who builds the same device, but it only blows when a Visa card is in range. You have to wonder at the stupidity of self identifying like this, particularly in places where you're not liked, which frankly, is probably any place you'd need a passport to get to.
FWIW, Mythbusters was banned from talking about the hackability and trackability of RFID by Amex, Discover, Visa, and Mastercard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq7kBhts9a8
-- Terry
Belize is part of the first world. The British had troops stationed there throughout the cold war.
Also, I've been reliably informed that Belize is a very nice place to visit, lots of good history, they speak English and they accept US currency.
Is 1563649 a prime number?
Is that what the homeland security was trying to accomplish? They certainly have not made airports any safer, but have spent lots and lots of money making a former homeland security director wealthy (and probably other cronies) and alienating ordinary Americans at their own airports.
Airlines are often made economically liable when a traveler is refused entry at the destination and forced to return home. The refusing government doesn't buy the traveler a ticket, but puts that burden on the airline. This policy trickles down to the ticket agents who are taught to be strict about seeing passports and visas, acting as proxy immigration officials who sometimes are even more conservative than the real officials at the destination.
From http://law.justia.com/cfr/title22/22-1.0.1.6.33.html#22:1.0.1.6.33.1.3.1
22 C.F.R. PART 51—PASSPORTS
Title 22 - Foreign Relations
PART 51—PASSPORTS
51.6 Damaged, mutilated or altered passport.
Any passport which has been materially changed in physical appearance or composition, or contains a damaged, defective or otherwise nonfunctioning electronic chip, or which includes unauthorized changes, obliterations, entries or photographs, or has observable wear and tear that renders it unfit for further use as a travel document may be invalidated. [ Note that this says MAY, and more to the point does not say IS... so a revocation judgement has to be made by.... ]
51.4 Validity of passports. ... ONLY IF, in the judgement of the State Dept, the mutilation warrants revocation ]
(h) Invalidity. A United States passport is invalid whenever:
(1) The passport has been formally revoked by the Department; or [
(2) The Department has registered a passport reported either in writing or by telephone to the Department of State, or in writing to a U.S. passport agency or to a diplomatic or consular post abroad as lost or stolen.
(3) The Department has sent a written notice to the bearer at the bearer's last known address that the passport has been invalidated because the Department has not received the applicable fees.
Improper visas or clearly wrong authorizations is one thing, but the intrinsic validity of a properly issued passport to its proper owner is clearly not a decision delegated to airline staff. That judgement is for immigrations or passport officials to make, not some Jetway jockeys who've mistaken themselves for State Department employees. Seems to me that a lawsuit for injunctive relief is perfectly appropriate -- specifically to prevent AA or other airline staff from making legal declarations about the invalidity of a passport. And it's not like this would be burdensome, either: If Jetway Jane sees that you don't posses a passport or a visa for a destination that requires one, you've violated the terms on your ticket, and will be denied boarding because it's a ticketing issue. But If Jetway Joe thinks your passport might be invalid, he should call the resident officials at the airport to make a determination -- not try to impersonate them.
I think not...(*poof*)
"but perfectly visible and functional regular license plates"
Seems like a non-issue to me. The FAQ you quote seems to agree by virtue of not mentioning the RFID in the list of things that constitute 'damage', or mentioning a requirement that the RFID chip work in the section on RFID. Seems like they mostly care about the printed components of the book.
The enemies of Democracy are
been considered a 'privilege'? Freedom to travel is a birthright.
I've accidently washed my passport several times. It looks horrible. But I still use it. Yes, I get asked about it all of the time. I haven't been stopped yet. I guess all it takes is one holier than thou, protector of the passport, looking for a raise or recognition individual to make life difficult.
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
My current passport does not have a chip in it and is good for another year. It is also pretty damn beat up. It has stickers on the outside that French immigration has put on it. It has been bent and tweaked by a variety of national border control types, and no one has ever applied a visa stamp gently. It has also spent a lot of time in my pocket, because nothing says "Tourist here please rob me" like one of those dorky things hanging around your neck. As a result of being in my pocket, it has gotten sat on, sweated on, bent, etc. In short, it looks like the passport of someone who travels a lot, which I guess they don't see a lot at American Airlines in Dallas. I respect my passport enough that I don't leave it in hotel safes, don't hang it around my neck to get snatched, and generally try to keep it from getting stolen, which has resulted in it looking weathered and worn. The airline employee in Dallas is a tool.
And get off my lawn.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Meanwhile, you can cross six time zones from San Juan to Honolulu without having to tell anybody.
Unless you want to fly....
Indeed. Tell it to the TSA, who even stake out railways and highways nowadays. Of course, one could avoid vehicles altogether, at some cost in time.
Swimming in stages from Puerto Rico to Florida (via Hispaniola or the Turks & Caicos and then the Bahamas) is kind-of plausible and may even have been accomplished by a well-prepared athlete with a good support boat and crew alongside. But I rather doubt that anyone has managed to swim from the West coast (or Alaska) to Hawai'i or thence to Guam or American Samoa.
Since Puerto Rico and American Samoa are both U.S. territories, no passport should be needed for travel between them. But you'll have to tell the TSA person all about your trip if you fly.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
What? You going to parent that kid now too? Let me teach you something about respect. It's a sign of gross disrespect to assume that someone has no respect for a FKING PIECE OF PAPER (Yea I said it, Oh teh noes I should neveer travelz anywheresz! I 'm teh badz!) with an electronic chip to travel.
You should be immediately let go from your job. The ability to move around the country is a privy is a joke. That's like saying you're automatically on city arrest or country arrest unless you earn the privledge to leave.
You working for that company is a privledge and you just abused it as far as I'm concerned. I understand preventing people from leaving countries if they're criminals, you're preventing your mess from spreading or them avoiding prosecution but seriously. I'm shocked an disgusted. That's like saying don't give me a dirty look or I'll screw you life up.
That's the same thing as if I said you just lost the privledge to not be punched in the face for being an ass.
However we continue In spite of the fact that The fuel may be low on Your record player. we Suggest that in places In the fourth world Where things are really Tough that you keep The record player Going by rubbing two Sticks together. Read more: FRANK ZAPPA - A LITTLE GREEN ROSETTA LYRICS http://www.metrolyrics.com/a-little-green-rosetta-lyrics-frank-zappa.html#ixzz1n3cB2joC Copied from MetroLyrics.com
Was it our good friends, the TSA, or is this a private venture? I ask because there was an article, a while back, which mentioned that airports could provide their own security forces if they chose to; moreover, this article does not mention who, exactly, denied him an exit.
I am John Hurt.
The meek and weak moaning while HIDING the name of the airline and airport responsible for the outrage is one of the reasons we keep getting screwed over. People without courage deserve what they get.
Fascists.
disrespect
What, is this some equivalent of a Kim Il-Sung lapel pin now?
I have used credit cards for decades and never had a problem with them. They gave me this new chip card and within weeks it doesn't work. Worse, some companies systems won't take a swipe if the chip is bad, that's why I can't shop at Walmart. I can't get a new card without a chip in it either. Do I want to travel internationally only to find I can't get home because the chip in my passport has broken? These chips are a bad idea and need to go.
The federal government requiring Catholics to pay for other people's contraception.
This is not true. The federal government is requiring ALL employers to offer health insurance or pay a fine, and all health insurance offered must pay for contraception.
The federal government is not, however, requiring anyone to be an employer.
paintball
Cuba doesn't stamp passports. They know it would cause everyone visiting Cuba grief to get into the US. They stick a piece of paper into your passport, with your passport number on it and stamp that.
They are looking out for the Canadians and Europeans and others who would be otherwise harassed by the Americans.
I was living in the tropics for a while as an expat, and was concerned how fast the sweat or downpours might ruin my passport or make my ink-stamped visas and entry permits unreadable. So I got a ziplock sandwich bag from the kitchen and put the passport inside it, then pocketed that. Even after getting extra pages inserted at the embassy and damn near filling those full of stamps, the passport looked essentially as new as the day I put the bag around it.
You say it's easier to change corporate behaviour. Really? We have built in, direct mechanisms for changing state behaviour (voting). The market, when it even exists, is indirect at best. In any case, vast sectors of the economy -- including the one being discusssed -- are run by cartels & monopolies. Good luck changing any of their behaviour with your chump change.
"generally not shouting "Fire" for no reason"
Tell me citizen, what is the practical difference in the end result if you shout "FIRE!!!" in a crowded theater, whether or not there is actually a fire? Do you think the theater evacuation will be calmer and safer if there IS an actual fire, with billowing smoke and flames to boot, vs you just making one up?
Holding mine and my wife's newer chipped version as I write. On mine, the laminated page is the inside of the front cover. On hers, it is page 3. Mine looks far more sturdy and less likely to peel than hers. The covers of hers are more rigid and actually more likely to show damage. Maybe they are supposed to protect the chip, but it leaves it more likely to show damage. It's like the difference between a leather cover (old) and cardboard (new).
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
its typical US behaviour of coming up with insane "laws". Poor kid and their family.
...some dude wrote the set list in his passport. Always wondered what happened to the poor bastard.
Owning a passport is not a privilege, it is a natural right of any person to travel unless they've been convicted or are being held over for trial for a crime.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
To have a passport is privilege, it's not entitled to you by citizenship,
That sounded better in the original Russian. And I think you're supposed to call them "comrades", not "citizens".
I haven't flown on AA for quite a few years because their service is crap and their planes are definitely showing their age, but now they're on my "no fly" list.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Not surprisingly, USA passports cost far more then other countries. My Canadian passport was only $65, while I had to pay $160 for my 5 year old son's US passport
It's just a business that was perpetuated by the sellers of expensive RFID equipment.
They don't need a lot of help to look like horrible human beings. It's not like a debit card which you can use everywhere, even at your own home with some cheap equipment, and quickly determine it is unusable. This is a passport. They had no way of knowing it was damaged until boarding the plane. Care to test them all pre-flight via pre-paid postage envelopes to prevent additional expenses on the passengers? Didn't think so. They should be financially liable for that family's vacation in my opinion.
I don't see owning a passport as a privilege at all. My government has no right to keep me locked in this country, excepting the case in which I've committed a serious crime, in which case I should probably be in prison.
No, you really don't.
If your goal is to reproduce the contents of the RFID chip, then you want it in the encrypted form. No need to decrypt it.
And considering that the encryption was broken in 2006, even if you do want the contents, you don't really need the MRZ.
Crossing from Canada to the US (Vancouver->Seattle), with my fiancee who is Korean national.
In her Korean passport, she has a US entry Visa stapled in (by the issuing office, not us). The US border guard gave us shit for having the staple there, stating that the Visa was "U.S. property" and that having the staple in there was disrespectful of said property.
He let us through after telling us we should complain to the gov't that put the staple there, and tell them not to do so next time.
I guess we should consider ourselves lucky for it not being call a terror-staple or something...
Last I checked, this isn't a privilege. It's a method of proving citizenship or legitimate purpose at some level for travel into the US.
The only way this is a privilege is if we had a notion to keep people from being able to travel abroad. Then we would call that a 'privilege'.
The words that we see in situations such as this scare me. We seem to be verbally accepting the erosion of our American freedoms. In this situation we are calling our human right(I consider travling outside of your country's boarders a human right) to travel or leave a country, a privilage. How would anyone consider this a privilage? The privilage would be something that you have done to have the ability to travel. Not the country giving you the privilage to travel.
If you don't consider this a right, then you think it is ok for countries to contain their people within their boarders too. We aren't talking about having permission from a country you want to go to, that's different. Countries can decide who to let in for various reasons. But no country should have the right to tell you that you cannot leave.
Also people, for gods sake try to somewhat stay on topic.
Inside my passport it says,
"The Secretary of State of the United States of America hereby requests all whom it may concern to permit the citizen/national of the United States named herein to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection."
So, I guess that clause doesn't apply to citizens within the USA, only outside.
No sig for you! Come back one year!
International travel was also a "privilege" and not a "right" for citizens behind the Iron Curtain. my how times change.
I replied to this post:
by Mitreya (579078) on Tuesday February 21, @06:53PM (#39118173)
BTW, the Dems had both houses of Congress for most of Obama's first term. So I guess you can blame those damned dirty Dem Congress members too.
I call bullshit. Democrats had 59 votes + 1 Lieberman (who is hardly Democrat). Every time Republicans chose to filibuster (which was nearly always), requiring 61 votes to push something through, the majority meant nothing.
At the time of the post he had +5 informative and I corrected his wrong information saying 61 votes to break a filibuster is wrong, because only 3/5th or 60 was required. I cited a source (wikipedia, not the best but you could look for the sources they cite), but you can look it up (which the people modding him up informative should have done), and he was modded down +4 informative (and still is, despite being factually wrong) and then my post (done as AC like this one) disappeared. Did my post get removed because I didn't sign-in? Are facts irrelevant because I posted anonymously? Is this proper or has this just shown facts and truth aren't relevant on Slashdot and politics reign supreme like most everywhere else?
The fine right now is $0.
Increasing the fine to $2,500 isn't going to cause less employers to offer insurance....
paintball