>> It is not just "commie pinko liberals" who are advocating change here, but thoughtful conservative writers as well.
Why is it that somebody on the political Left who advocates change is a "commie pinko liberal" while somebody on the Right is a "thoughtful conservative"?
From your commentary, it sounds to me that, no matter how good the opinion is, if it comes from the Left side of the political spectrum, it's probably a loony idea. Have you given any thought yourself to the idea that some, if not many, people on the Right are nutbars, including your own Prez?
When I read the article, for some strange reason I found that a certain tune was running through my head. Anybody remember the little instrumental that played 8 bars with the typewriter going in the background in time to the music, then the line would end, the bell would ring and then the unmistakeable, (to those of us beyond a certain age), sound of a carriage return, then on to the next 8 bars. Haven't a clue what it's called, but it's going to be running through my head for the rest of the evening now.
I can see all the comments coming. If we ban this, why do we not ban things like cellphones, car stereos, two way radios etc.
As far as I'm concerned the only one out of these that should be banned is the cellphone in the hands of somebody actually driving, (as opposed to pulled over at the side of the road). The big difference between a cell and all of these other electronic devices is the fact that, while all the others we listen to over speakers, a typical cellphone using driver HAS THE DAMN THING CLAMPED TO HIS EAR, and therefore effectively has lost the use of that hand for the duration of the call.
Even using a mobile radio is nowhere near as intrusive as this...a hand microphone is still not clamped to your ear. The only thing that even comes close are these Yuppiefucks that insist on having their SUV as some sort of mobile office, and are dicking around with a laptop on the seat next to them, or a PDA. Fortunately, this one doesn't seem to be as prevalent.
It's very simple, people. When you drive, you have both hands on the wheel, except for momentary uses of one hand or the other to shift gears, operate the radio, wipers, headlights etc. Anything that takes away the use of one or the other for a significant period of time should be banned like asbestos, as should be anything that takes away one's eyes from the road.
This is all before considering the total idiots on the roads that do things like shave, put on makeup, read newspapers, enjoy a full course meal etc. This lot should be put up against the wall. Then there's the cretins that let their kids roam around the car, even onto the driver's lap, instead of having them in properly installed child seats!
It's an offence to make false emergency declarations, and it's also not a pilot's job to make medical diagnoses. But if he has to make such a declaration based on info available, nobody's going to hang him for it. Sometimes shit just happens.
>>REPLY- I never said anything about the ability of EMT's do do their job properly or to perform well with limited information over the radio. I only said it's nice if you can/could keep ATC out of the loop. Now if a crew could get patched directly to a specialist EMT and in turn get those instructions out to the cabin in a timely fashion, I'm all for it.
Did you even read his full reply? Here's an important bit...
>>As an EMT I do these things all the time. One doesn't need a machine to take a pulse and infact the machines are often wrong. I can see having blood pressure cuffs and a stethescope on board but again a machine will give you incorrect readings. For temperature, sure have a thermometer but how big/expensive is that really going to be? A glucometer is certainly a good idea but they are also tiny these days. What I really don't understand is why do they need a sattelite phone? Don't airliners have radios? Why not just have the nearest tower relay the info to an emergency room on the ground? EMTs have specific protocols for this kind of "on-line" medical direction.
In other words, even in the skilled hands of somebody who uses electronic diagnostic equipment every day, they can and do produce readings that are shit! Most if not all of the readings that can be taken by these things can be done by anybody with decent first aid training, (and I would hope that cabin crew do), and it can take just as long for an ambulance to get to a location on the ground as it can for an aircraft to land at an airport with that ambulance waiting for it. So these things, IMHO aren't worth a damn.
As for ATC being "out of the loop", is this airlinese for keeping everybody else out of the loop as well? As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly one of the reasons ATC is there, to handle emergency traffic! These people are skilled communicators, so messages would get properly passed on. Besides, can you be sure that whatever comm link for the fancy assed diag equipment would have data to find some backwoods airstrip with which to land your A310? Dollars to donuts ATC could provide local info, as well as relay any other pertinent info.
If one of your pilots does make the call to land because somebody has a fainting spell misinterpreted as a heart attack, is the airline going to hang him out to dry? Won't that look good on the stock exchange floor!
As for your last comment, I choose to ignore it. Now go and cancel some more flights!
We moved to Canada from Belgium at the end of March, 1967, when I was just over two. I have some very vague memories of Belgium, and can still remember one of the decorations on the wall at some pub or something there.
I remember going through the tunnel under the runway to Heathrow, but nothing at all about the actual trip over. The next concrete memory I have is carrying into the house a bag of puffes wheat cereal that was bigger than I was! This would have been in May or June, because the grass was green.
Interestingly enough, I paid a visit to that particular town about 8 years ago, for the first time since '72, (when we moved again), and I was able to find my way to each and every house we lived in during the five years we were there, sans directions.
Everything else since that bag of puffed wheat has been a blur.
>># 4971949 Don't airliners have radios? Why not just have the nearest tower relay the info to an emergency room on the ground? EMTs have specific protocols for this kind of "on-line" medical direction.
>>FACT- Yes, aircraft have radios. The frequencies are mightily congested, meaning that if one flight monopolizes the airwaves, other important communications get put on hold. When a plane is declaring a mechanical emergency, it makes sense to give way. But as noted, this type of event happens often , meaning that there would be too much communications disruption systemwide.
>>Also, asking the tower/approach/center to proxy the messages to a hospital adds the chance for miscommunication. Further, ATC would now be 'in the loop' and would have to have plans and protocols for what to do when the crew asks for help. (Some of this may be in place now, but not to the level that you suggest). A sat-link takes all this mess away and gets the real data into the hands of someone who can interpret it.
If I remember correctly from not only my spotter training with Civil Air Search and Rescue, but from my Amateur Radio training as well, the moment somebody broadcasts a Mayday or otherwise declares an emergency, all other traffic is supposed to shut the fuck up so that the emergency is given priority. When this happens, ATC directs other people on that frequency to some other frequency, on the chance that the emergency traffic cannot make such a change. The laws and regulations concerning radios apply to everybody, and airliners aren't treated any differently than the guy in the C152 doing his run-up on the ramp.
Did you notice that the person making that original post identified himself as a paramedic? In other words, he's somebody who has to deal with emergency situations via a radio link every day, so probably has a better handle on that sort of thing than the guy who cancels flights, or his flight attendant wife in the back of the plane.
Back in the early days of the airlines, in Canada anyway, stewardesses...sorry...flight attendants had to be registered nurses. Wouldn't this be a better, cheaper way to solve this, perhaps with each flight over a certain duration or along certain routes carrying one RN on a flight?
I'll take a "fucking crazy blizzard" over a tornado or earthquake anyday. It's good for the ski resorts and I have four wheel drive anyway. Blizzards don't kill people in the direct sort of way as a tornado or earthquake.
Right now, three days before Christmas, with a temperature of 2 degrees, increasingly larger green patches everywhere, there not being much snow to start with, I kinda wish a fucking crazy blizzard would happen, in a Bing Crosby sort of way.
http://www.canada.com/ has belonged to a private corporation for quite a while now.
But then, our government has become known for selling off everything this country values to the highest bidder, or putting it in the dumpster, whichever comes first. Ask any Arrow fan.
>> If you actually supported it, then you wouldn't have bought the printer with the chips in it.
Do most people realize this neat little trick forced on us by the printer makers when they buy the damn things? Probably not, just as most people don't read the licensing agreements of their software, (or their car owner's manual, for that matter).
IMHO, it's exactly this sort of ignorance that the industry relies on to do all sorts of things that we neither need nor want...backdoor access to your computer, mining of personal data etc.
>> Your vote of the dollar (mark, frank whatever)
That would be the "Euro" now, with one or two notable exceptions.
***EVERYTHING*** that the terrorists did on 9/11 was low tech. That's why it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to install all this high tech security equipment to try and stop these kind of people from getting a bomb on the plane. After all, the plane WAS the bomb, and all that was needed was some very simple weaponry to take it over and redirect it. Sillier still is the notion that barring cutlery, knitting needles, nail files etc. is just as futile, since something as simple as a shoelace can be used as a weapon. What's next? Are we going to shackle each and every passenger to his or her seat in yet another vain attempt at airline security?
That's why I'm of the very firm belief that something was/is going on WRT 9/11. It's all just too convenient for Baby Bush to have everything he ever dreamed of doing handed to him on a silver platter! Isn't there anybody else here that has wondered this?
Sounds a bit like the cancellation of our own Arrow program in 1959, in which yet another bean-counter prime minister killed off what was arguably the world's finest jet interceptor, laying off tens of thousands. All the technology headed south, packed nicely in the heads of all the Canadian engineers that went south looking for work, ironically to end up with NASA. Four years later, RCAF pilots were flying USED CF101 Voodoos for about the same cost as what finishing the Arrow project might have cost.
...for a good couple of years, before I ever fired up anything higher than Win3x. The biggest problem I had was finding drivers. Other than that, it ran very smoothly.
I think I'll install it on a spare drive tonight, just for old times sake.
I always did think you were the one of the more honest guys around, even though I would never be caught dead voting Tory. Your successor and nemesis Lyin' Brian Mulroney did so much damage to our country that we're still suffereing from the hangover, these days called the Alliance.
Most people will be content with whatever in placed in front of them because they usually don't know what else might be out there.
Back in the Dark Days of Win3x, we sent out our systems with Wordperfect 5.2, Harvard Graphics, Lotus 123 and Groupwise on them. When we were forced by government policy to switch to MS Office, outside of a few troubles caused by file incompatibilities, Word not being able to properly import the WP files that pre-existed, we had very little trouble doing it.
So what it boils down to is a) most of the time the worker bees have very little to say about what their PC comes with, and b) it doesn't really make much of a difference. Therefore, if our government decided to go with Linux and OpenOffice, then that's what people would run!
IMHO, it's all the backroom politicking that puts up the real barriers for Linux breaking into big markets like government. If governm,ent were really serious about saving money, they would look at exactly this combination, instead of continuing the M$ imposed cycle of constant upgrades.
Does it matter? Baby Bush would have found/created another excuse to continue the conversion of the US from a quasi-democracy into a police state dictatorship.
More to come, folks! Just sit back, relax, and watch as everything you ever enjoyed gets taken away or otherwise monitored all in the name of national security.
It will be interesting to see what happens as as sociologists inevitably track this. Not that I am one, but I predict that Bhutan will move from a country that measures Gross National Happiness to one with increases in crime, violence, obesity, selfishness and stupidity, as does everything else Amerikan "culture" infects.
>> I fail to understand why so many people curious about Linux always ask whether or not their Windows software will still run under Linux.
> It's what they're used to, and it will (most of the time;-) open the files they've accumulated - Quicken finance data, work-related Word or Excel docs (for simpler stuff OO.o does just fine), etc. So many people with an existing set of Windows files don't want to have to re-enter data or lose data - they value their existing investment and want to keep it.
> And yes, they'd like to minimize the relearning curve, so if they can run their existing apps, so much the better - higher productivity, sooner.
While this is true, this situation doesn't seem to happen when a Mac is involved, probably because the hardware is totally different. Nor does it seem to happen when they switch from VHS tapes to a DVD player, even though the investment can be as much. While not as obvious as switching from Win to Lin on the same hardware, to anybody that's familiar with computing enough to want to make the switch, the answer shouldn't be that hard to figure out. It's not that far removed from the complete stupidity some people exhibit WRT computers vice other household appliances, i.e. where the power cord goes, use of the On/Off switch etc that just plain doesn't happen with a toaster oven, and all those other tech support problems come to life, like the CDROM coffee cup holder, (one I've seen happen)!
> I say this quietly, but your failure to understand comes across as a flavor of that arrogance of many Linux geeks, the ones who can't understand ordinary non-computer people wanting to minimize the computer-related disruptions in their lives
Which is why, instead of telling them to go RTM, I take the time to explain it! I do this by asking them what they would do if it were a Mac, and they quickly see the point. That's completely different from belittling them by telling them that you're not going to help them if they're too stupid to help themselves, which is what I was getting at.
I try to take this...
http://zgp.org/~dmarti/linuxmanship/...to heart, as we all should.
I fail to understand why so many people curious about Linux always ask whether or not their Windows software will still run under Linux.
I usually ask them straight up if they would expect it to run on a Mac, then, after they say "no", I ask them why would they expect the same thing on a Linux box.
I then explain about the various emulators that do exist for Win software to run, but also explain that there's much more and better native Linux software out there, available for free, which usually makes their ears prick up, as they are under the impression that little or no Linux software exists because they don't see it on the store shelves.
Perhaps one of the things the Linux community needs to do is to spread the word about the software that is out there. Many people are familiar with things like Apache or Mozilla, but don't realize a) where they can get Linux software, (and sending them to FreshMeat, then expecting them to sink or swim doesn't do the Linux community any favours), and b) just how good much of the stuff really is!
On the subject of the former, the one big thing that is preventing the Linux Desktop from hitting it big is the arrogance of many Linux geeks who, when confronted with newbies' baby questions, have the attitude of "If you're too fscking stupid to look this up on the 'net yourself, I'm not going to help you!" Turning people off, (therefore back to Windows), for asking basic questions helps nobody!
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>> It is not just "commie pinko liberals" who are advocating change here, but thoughtful conservative writers as well.
Why is it that somebody on the political Left who advocates change is a "commie pinko liberal" while somebody on the Right is a "thoughtful conservative"?
From your commentary, it sounds to me that, no matter how good the opinion is, if it comes from the Left side of the political spectrum, it's probably a loony idea. Have you given any thought yourself to the idea that some, if not many, people on the Right are nutbars, including your own Prez?
When I read the article, for some strange reason I found that a certain tune was running through my head. Anybody remember the little instrumental that played 8 bars with the typewriter going in the background in time to the music, then the line would end, the bell would ring and then the unmistakeable, (to those of us beyond a certain age), sound of a carriage return, then on to the next 8 bars. Haven't a clue what it's called, but it's going to be running through my head for the rest of the evening now.
I can see all the comments coming. If we ban this, why do we not ban things like cellphones, car stereos, two way radios etc.
As far as I'm concerned the only one out of these that should be banned is the cellphone in the hands of somebody actually driving, (as opposed to pulled over at the side of the road). The big difference between a cell and all of these other electronic devices is the fact that, while all the others we listen to over speakers, a typical cellphone using driver HAS THE DAMN THING CLAMPED TO HIS EAR, and therefore effectively has lost the use of that hand for the duration of the call.
Even using a mobile radio is nowhere near as intrusive as this...a hand microphone is still not clamped to your ear. The only thing that even comes close are these Yuppiefucks that insist on having their SUV as some sort of mobile office, and are dicking around with a laptop on the seat next to them, or a PDA. Fortunately, this one doesn't seem to be as prevalent.
It's very simple, people. When you drive, you have both hands on the wheel, except for momentary uses of one hand or the other to shift gears, operate the radio, wipers, headlights etc. Anything that takes away the use of one or the other for a significant period of time should be banned like asbestos, as should be anything that takes away one's eyes from the road.
This is all before considering the total idiots on the roads that do things like shave, put on makeup, read newspapers, enjoy a full course meal etc. This lot should be put up against the wall. Then there's the cretins that let their kids roam around the car, even onto the driver's lap, instead of having them in properly installed child seats!
It's an offence to make false emergency declarations, and it's also not a pilot's job to make medical diagnoses. But if he has to make such a declaration based on info available, nobody's going to hang him for it. Sometimes shit just happens.
>>REPLY- I never said anything about the ability of EMT's do do their job properly or to perform well with limited information over the radio. I only said it's nice if you can/could keep ATC out of the loop. Now if a crew could get patched directly to a specialist EMT and in turn get those instructions out to the cabin in a timely fashion, I'm all for it.
Did you even read his full reply? Here's an important bit...
>>As an EMT I do these things all the time. One doesn't need a machine to take a pulse and infact the machines are often wrong. I can see having blood pressure cuffs and a stethescope on board but again a machine will give you incorrect readings. For temperature, sure have a thermometer but how big/expensive is that really going to be? A glucometer is certainly a good idea but they are also tiny these days. What I really don't understand is why do they need a sattelite phone? Don't airliners have radios? Why not just have the nearest tower relay the info to an emergency room on the ground? EMTs have specific protocols for this kind of "on-line" medical direction.
In other words, even in the skilled hands of somebody who uses electronic diagnostic equipment every day, they can and do produce readings that are shit! Most if not all of the readings that can be taken by these things can be done by anybody with decent first aid training, (and I would hope that cabin crew do), and it can take just as long for an ambulance to get to a location on the ground as it can for an aircraft to land at an airport with that ambulance waiting for it. So these things, IMHO aren't worth a damn.
As for ATC being "out of the loop", is this airlinese for keeping everybody else out of the loop as well? As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly one of the reasons ATC is there, to handle emergency traffic! These people are skilled communicators, so messages would get properly passed on. Besides, can you be sure that whatever comm link for the fancy assed diag equipment would have data to find some backwoods airstrip with which to land your A310? Dollars to donuts ATC could provide local info, as well as relay any other pertinent info.
If one of your pilots does make the call to land because somebody has a fainting spell misinterpreted as a heart attack, is the airline going to hang him out to dry? Won't that look good on the stock exchange floor!
As for your last comment, I choose to ignore it. Now go and cancel some more flights!
I thought the French WERE the first people on the moon...some kid reporter, wasn't it?
Or was it the Syldavians or the Belgians or something like that. Anyway, I remember reading a couple of comic books about it when I was a kid.
We moved to Canada from Belgium at the end of March, 1967, when I was just over two. I have some very vague memories of Belgium, and can still remember one of the decorations on the wall at some pub or something there.
I remember going through the tunnel under the runway to Heathrow, but nothing at all about the actual trip over. The next concrete memory I have is carrying into the house a bag of puffes wheat cereal that was bigger than I was! This would have been in May or June, because the grass was green.
Interestingly enough, I paid a visit to that particular town about 8 years ago, for the first time since '72, (when we moved again), and I was able to find my way to each and every house we lived in during the five years we were there, sans directions.
Everything else since that bag of puffed wheat has been a blur.
>># 4971949
Don't airliners have radios? Why not just have the nearest tower relay the info to an emergency room on the ground? EMTs have specific protocols for this kind of "on-line" medical direction.
>>FACT- Yes, aircraft have radios. The frequencies are mightily congested, meaning that if one flight monopolizes the airwaves, other important communications get put on hold. When a plane is declaring a mechanical emergency, it makes sense to give way. But as noted, this type of event happens often , meaning that there would be too much communications disruption systemwide.
>>Also, asking the tower/approach/center to proxy the messages to a hospital adds the chance for miscommunication. Further, ATC would now be 'in the loop' and would have to have plans and protocols for what to do when the crew asks for help. (Some of this may be in place now, but not to the level that you suggest). A sat-link takes all this mess away and gets the real data into the hands of someone who can interpret it.
If I remember correctly from not only my spotter training with Civil Air Search and Rescue, but from my Amateur Radio training as well, the moment somebody broadcasts a Mayday or otherwise declares an emergency, all other traffic is supposed to shut the fuck up so that the emergency is given priority. When this happens, ATC directs other people on that frequency to some other frequency, on the chance that the emergency traffic cannot make such a change. The laws and regulations concerning radios apply to everybody, and airliners aren't treated any differently than the guy in the C152 doing his run-up on the ramp.
Did you notice that the person making that original post identified himself as a paramedic? In other words, he's somebody who has to deal with emergency situations via a radio link every day, so probably has a better handle on that sort of thing than the guy who cancels flights, or his flight attendant wife in the back of the plane.
Back in the early days of the airlines, in Canada anyway, stewardesses...sorry...flight attendants had to be registered nurses. Wouldn't this be a better, cheaper way to solve this, perhaps with each flight over a certain duration or along certain routes carrying one RN on a flight?
Don't hold your breath! It'll be the inflight bouncers that do the examination, and no, not THOSE bouncers!
That wasn't a man with three legs...it was something completely different...a man with three buttocks!
>> Tang, gold clubs and all,
FUCK!
That's "golf clubs"!
Damn red wine at this time of the night...
I'll take a "fucking crazy blizzard" over a tornado or earthquake anyday. It's good for the ski resorts and I have four wheel drive anyway. Blizzards don't kill people in the direct sort of way as a tornado or earthquake.
Right now, three days before Christmas, with a temperature of 2 degrees, increasingly larger green patches everywhere, there not being much snow to start with, I kinda wish a fucking crazy blizzard would happen, in a Bing Crosby sort of way.
http://www.canada.com/ has belonged to a private corporation for quite a while now.
But then, our government has become known for selling off everything this country values to the highest bidder, or putting it in the dumpster, whichever comes first. Ask any Arrow fan.
>> If you actually supported it, then you wouldn't have bought the printer with the chips in it.
Do most people realize this neat little trick forced on us by the printer makers when they buy the damn things? Probably not, just as most people don't read the licensing agreements of their software, (or their car owner's manual, for that matter).
IMHO, it's exactly this sort of ignorance that the industry relies on to do all sorts of things that we neither need nor want...backdoor access to your computer, mining of personal data etc.
>> Your vote of the dollar (mark, frank whatever)
That would be the "Euro" now, with one or two notable exceptions.
***EVERYTHING*** that the terrorists did on 9/11 was low tech. That's why it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to install all this high tech security equipment to try and stop these kind of people from getting a bomb on the plane. After all, the plane WAS the bomb, and all that was needed was some very simple weaponry to take it over and redirect it. Sillier still is the notion that barring cutlery, knitting needles, nail files etc. is just as futile, since something as simple as a shoelace can be used as a weapon. What's next? Are we going to shackle each and every passenger to his or her seat in yet another vain attempt at airline security?
That's why I'm of the very firm belief that something was/is going on WRT 9/11. It's all just too convenient for Baby Bush to have everything he ever dreamed of doing handed to him on a silver platter! Isn't there anybody else here that has wondered this?
Sounds a bit like the cancellation of our own Arrow program in 1959, in which yet another bean-counter prime minister killed off what was arguably the world's finest jet interceptor, laying off tens of thousands. All the technology headed south, packed nicely in the heads of all the Canadian engineers that went south looking for work, ironically to end up with NASA. Four years later, RCAF pilots were flying USED CF101 Voodoos for about the same cost as what finishing the Arrow project might have cost.
...for a good couple of years, before I ever fired up anything higher than Win3x. The biggest problem I had was finding drivers. Other than that, it ran very smoothly.
I think I'll install it on a spare drive tonight, just for old times sake.
I've been visiting this website for a couple of years now. If I had thought that this would have been a relevant topic, I would have submitted these:
http://www.cygnals.com/zine/complete/subway.htm
http://www.cygnals.com/zine/queen/home.html
The abandoned Lower Bay subway station in Toronto, as well as it's sister, the abandoned Lower Queen station...
Then there's the obvious American version to the abandoned Underground, that being NYC...
http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/
I always did think you were the one of the more honest guys around, even though I would never be caught dead voting Tory. Your successor and nemesis Lyin' Brian Mulroney did so much damage to our country that we're still suffereing from the hangover, these days called the Alliance.
What planet are you from?
Most people will be content with whatever in placed in front of them because they usually don't know what else might be out there.
Back in the Dark Days of Win3x, we sent out our systems with Wordperfect 5.2, Harvard Graphics, Lotus 123 and Groupwise on them. When we were forced by government policy to switch to MS Office, outside of a few troubles caused by file incompatibilities, Word not being able to properly import the WP files that pre-existed, we had very little trouble doing it.
So what it boils down to is a) most of the time the worker bees have very little to say about what their PC comes with, and b) it doesn't really make much of a difference. Therefore, if our government decided to go with Linux and OpenOffice, then that's what people would run!
IMHO, it's all the backroom politicking that puts up the real barriers for Linux breaking into big markets like government. If governm,ent were really serious about saving money, they would look at exactly this combination, instead of continuing the M$ imposed cycle of constant upgrades.
Does it matter? Baby Bush would have found/created another excuse to continue the conversion of the US from a quasi-democracy into a police state dictatorship.
More to come, folks! Just sit back, relax, and watch as everything you ever enjoyed gets taken away or otherwise monitored all in the name of national security.
The link is just cbc.ca no www needed.
I thought it was Lorne Greene...could have been Pierre Berton, who's been there for the 50 years!
All hail the Mother Corporation!
It will be interesting to see what happens as as sociologists inevitably track this. Not that I am one, but I predict that Bhutan will move from a country that measures Gross National Happiness to one with increases in crime, violence, obesity, selfishness and stupidity, as does everything else Amerikan "culture" infects.
>> I fail to understand why so many people curious about Linux always ask whether or not their Windows software will still run under Linux.
;-) open the files they've accumulated - Quicken finance data, work-related Word or Excel docs (for simpler stuff OO.o does just fine), etc. So many people with an existing set of Windows files don't want to have to re-enter data or lose data - they value their existing investment and want to keep it.
...to heart, as we all should.
> It's what they're used to, and it will (most of the time
> And yes, they'd like to minimize the relearning curve, so if they can run their existing apps, so much the better - higher productivity, sooner.
While this is true, this situation doesn't seem to happen when a Mac is involved, probably because the hardware is totally different. Nor does it seem to happen when they switch from VHS tapes to a DVD player, even though the investment can be as much. While not as obvious as switching from Win to Lin on the same hardware, to anybody that's familiar with computing enough to want to make the switch, the answer shouldn't be that hard to figure out. It's not that far removed from the complete stupidity some people exhibit WRT computers vice other household appliances, i.e. where the power cord goes, use of the On/Off switch etc that just plain doesn't happen with a toaster oven, and all those other tech support problems come to life, like the CDROM coffee cup holder, (one I've seen happen)!
> I say this quietly, but your failure to understand comes across as a flavor of that arrogance of many Linux geeks, the ones who can't understand ordinary non-computer people wanting to minimize the computer-related disruptions in their lives
Which is why, instead of telling them to go RTM, I take the time to explain it! I do this by asking them what they would do if it were a Mac, and they quickly see the point. That's completely different from belittling them by telling them that you're not going to help them if they're too stupid to help themselves, which is what I was getting at.
I try to take this...
http://zgp.org/~dmarti/linuxmanship/
I fail to understand why so many people curious about Linux always ask whether or not their Windows software will still run under Linux.
I usually ask them straight up if they would expect it to run on a Mac, then, after they say "no", I ask them why would they expect the same thing on a Linux box.
I then explain about the various emulators that do exist for Win software to run, but also explain that there's much more and better native Linux software out there, available for free, which usually makes their ears prick up, as they are under the impression that little or no Linux software exists because they don't see it on the store shelves.
Perhaps one of the things the Linux community needs to do is to spread the word about the software that is out there. Many people are familiar with things like Apache or Mozilla, but don't realize a) where they can get Linux software, (and sending them to FreshMeat, then expecting them to sink or swim doesn't do the Linux community any favours), and b) just how good much of the stuff really is!
On the subject of the former, the one big thing that is preventing the Linux Desktop from hitting it big is the arrogance of many Linux geeks who, when confronted with newbies' baby questions, have the attitude of "If you're too fscking stupid to look this up on the 'net yourself, I'm not going to help you!" Turning people off, (therefore back to Windows), for asking basic questions helps nobody!