Typewriter Keyboard Conversion

It goes without saying... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:00 · Score: 0

how cool this is.

Re:It goes without saying... by BigBlockMopar · 2003-01-01 13:40 · Score: 5, Informative

...that this guy should learn how to solder.

Sorry. But this is simultaneously an amazing project and an act of butchery.
A few words of advice for anyone trying this themselves: use electronics solder- it doesn't stick to breadboard. I later got curious and tested regular solder on an old NIC and it stuck everywhere. Watch what you buy.
"Regular solder"? Is that plumber's solder, like you'd use to sweat two pipes together?

Solder includes chemicals (flux) which help to clean the pieces of metal which are being attached. Electronic solder is either rosin core or organic core; they're fairly gentle. Acid core is used by plumbers and the post-soldering remains of the flux attack electronic components over the years.

Based on some of the pictures, I believe that the soldering to the PC board was done with an overly-large soldering iron. A fine grounded-tip 15-25W soldering iron is *essential*. My favorites are the tiny little Ungar irons from just before Weller bought them out.

BTW, it *is* possible to solder to aluminum, but it's very different. For one thing, aluminum coats itself almost instantly with a very fine layer of very hard aluminum oxide. Solder will not stick to this layer. The other problem is that aluminum conducts heat away from the attempted soldered connection. A large-wattage iron with a sharpened tip will do the trick. Apply a puddle of solder and, scrape the aluminum under the puddle with the tip of the hot iron. A bond will form, and the strength will be mostly dependent on how well you scraped the aluminum under the puddle.

Gaffer tape has a tendency to dry out, shrink and peel off over time. This limits the longevity of this particular modification. Of course, you probably don't want to cut up the typewriter since you chose it because you like it, and they don't make 'em anymore, so I applaud the reversibility.

Rather than attempting to make a distinct "switch" for each button, why not simply have a scheme where each keypress will ground a wire to the crossbar? Of course, that won't work with the keyboard's matrix arrangement, but that can be easily solved in a minute.

PC board looks like a good way to insulate parts of your switch assemblies, since it's cheap, readily-available, easy to work with, and you can use it to make narrow switches.

Onto each one of the levers (which are steel) you could solder a small piece of printed circuit board with a custom pattern. (You can buy printed circuit board etching supplies at Radio Shack.) One part of this tiny board's pattern is used to solder it to the lever. Then a gap, with no copper on the board. The opposite end of this pattern is a place to which you can solder a flexible wire and a small fold of some springy nickel-plated steel.

The tiny board then rides with the lever and the new springy-steel contact then connects the wire to the crossbar.

As for connecting the keyboard to the matrix, my first thought is to use optocouplers. Optocouplers are merely an LED and a photocell built into the same case. They're meant to isolate different parts of electronic circuits.

Solder a piece of flexible wire to the crossbar, and connect that directly to the keyboard's ground on the PS/2 or DIN connector. (You can get the pinout from the Internet.) Take the +5V lead from the keyboard and put about a 500 ohm resistor in series with it, then carry that across to the anodes of the LEDs in the optocouplers. Connect each cathode to each wire coming off the lever boards. Now, when you hit a key, the LED in the corresponding optocoupler should be lit.

The photocell in an optocoupler is actually a kind of transistor, which is essentially an electronic switch. Connect each optocoupler to its corresponding pair of contacts on the keyboard's matrix. Make sure you get the polarity right, a quick check of the keyboard with a voltmeter should do it.

Choose an optocoupler with a good transfer characteristic; probably Darlington-outputs. LEDs need current limiting, and that's what the 500 ohm resistor is for. Now, there's ONE resistor being used to power all those LEDs in the optocoupler, and it limits the single or total LED current to 10mA. This is done because motherboards often have fuses to keep keyboard current below about 50mA. Even if you hold down all the keys on the keyboard, you will not draw more than 10mA. Blowing the keyboard fuse on your motherboard would suck.

Now, when the Smithsonian comes calling and wants your typewriter because FDR used to keep it in the trunk of the Presidential Limo? Desolder the wire from the crossbar, desolder all the little pieces of printed circuit board from the levers, and the typewriter is undamaged.

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Fire and Meat. Yummy.
Re:It goes without saying... by SageMusings · 2003-01-01 17:09 · Score: 1

I'm Sorry. This is the ugliest, most inelegant hack I have ever seen. Not only is the work shoddy, this guy did not even learn how a regular keyboard operates and signals the PC.

The information is all over the internet. What's more, a small 16F84 PIC could easily have been programmed to perform all the logic he needed to implement, even bit-banging the data serially to the PC.

I do think the idea was pretty outrageous and demanded an implementation for play's sake. My hat is off to him in this regard. But really, do try a little basic engineering and decent construction techniques before unleashing what could have been a mobey hack to this forum.

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-- Posted from my parent's basement
Re:It goes without saying... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 17:20 · Score: 0

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Re:It goes without saying... by artg · 2003-01-01 22:21 · Score: 1

Yes, there are lots of problems with this (like, the key switches will wear out after a few hundred keystrokes) but be reasonable.

He's obviously a newbie at hardware hacking and, like all of us, has to learn by re-doing it until it works.

Erik, for your next attempt, look at non-contact switches such as optoswitches, hall effect or even reed relays.
Re:It goes without saying... by nolife · 2003-01-02 04:49 · Score: 2

...that this guy should learn how to solder.

The bigger the glob, the better the job!!

Actually, anyone can solder a joint that will work. To get it to look good and last is another issue that can only come with practice. By saying looking good, I mean if it looks good, you have a 99% chance it will be a long lasting connection. Short of xraying the thing (which is required in some circumstances), looks tell the story.
Shiney and smooth not dull and chunky from overheating, concave and not convex which shows good flow and provides the best mechanical holding. Getting good solder joints takes practice. Something you might not care to do if you only have a few simple jobs to do. Cleanliness of the surface, tip, solder and component are the most important factor. Using rubbing alcohol on the components and solder, an eraser on the circuit board, and damp sponge on the iron tip will do wonders. If everything is clean, the correct amount of solder to apply and heating technique are the only thing left to practice.

Here's a couple soldering guides that Goggle turned up:
http://www.ee.upenn.edu/rca/funstuff/solderin g/sol dering.html
http://www.circuittechctr.com/guides/ 7-1-1.htm

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Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.

haiku by bobtheprophet · 2003-01-01 11:01 · Score: 4, Funny

So tell me the truth
What exactly makes you want
a keyboard that jams?

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Don't give me none of this "nature theme" business.

Re:haiku by Alien+Being · 2003-01-01 13:32 · Score: 2

Her hands were like claws
Only one thing I could do
Build her a geekboard
Re:haiku by MattCohn.com · 2003-01-01 16:30 · Score: 2, Funny

That, and you have the obvious security problems! Just slide a peice of paper in there and you have yourself a keylogger.
Re:haiku by navboy · 2003-01-02 04:59 · Score: 1

Actually, i guess you have a keylogger just by virtue of having a typewriter ribbon ...

umm by Breakfast+Pants · 2003-01-01 11:02 · Score: 0

It takes more force to hit these keys, therefore there is a proven increase in repetitive stress with this crazy device. someone should be warned

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WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?

Re:umm by EvanED · 2003-01-01 11:10 · Score: 2

Care to cite sources? Or just speculate. If you read the site, you'd find out that while the typewriters require more force to operate, the resistance is gradual, which is shy she prefers them. Besides, even if for 99% of people typewriters are worse, if she finds them more comfortable, that's the important thing.
Re:umm by TheToon · 2003-01-01 21:28 · Score: 1

One reason why I prefer the old tactile click keyboards. You know, the big, heavy, noisy IBM PC keyboards... Key stroke lenght is longer, a physical "click" that gave you feedback when a key was pressed so you knew: 1. that key is pressed 2. no need to push that finger down further.

Too bad they don't make them like that anymore. Now it's just soft&silent-. Bah :)

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//TheToon
Re:umm by fucksl4shd0t · 2003-01-01 23:11 · Score: 1

I found that if you just hit the keys harder, they still make noise. Granted, it's not quite the same as the older, cooler keyboards, but it works.
It has the added benefit of keeping my fingers fairly strong on the long stretches when I don't have time to practice guitar. I find that if I spend the intervening time smashing keys on the keyboard (programming and sex being the only things that take me from my guitar for these stretches) then when I return to my guitar I've lost less finger strength. This is important because I use pretty heavy strings, and I bend the shit out of them. Enough rambling...

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Like what I said? You might like my music

That's wierd by TerryAtWork · 2003-01-01 11:02 · Score: 2

You'd think that there'd be LESS stress with an elecronic keyboard than a mechanical one.

What am I missing here?

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It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.

Re:That's wierd by bconway · 2003-01-01 11:04 · Score: 1

Stress isn't necessarily increased by increasing the energy exerted. It's caused by repeated motions, and often more so by repeated smaller motions. This is one way to decrease stress on the hands, another would be to turn down the mouse sensitivity so that you make large, sweeping motions instead of constantly moving the mouse a millimeter at a time.

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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
Re:That's wierd by stefanlasiewski · 2003-01-01 11:09 · Score: 5, Informative

Hard typing can lead to RSI.

From the page:

she finds old-fashioned mechanical typewriters much easier on her fingers because they offer gradual resistance rather than the feeling of moving through air then hitting a wall, like most computer keyboards

Different keyboards work for different people. If you're used to typing on a Smith-Corona, I can definatly see how the "hitting a wall" can hurt your fingers.

--
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Re:That's wierd by LostCluster · 2003-01-01 11:11 · Score: 2

The lack of resistance is a bug rather than a feature.

The mechancial keys on an old typewriter would trigger before being fully depressed, therefore you could type without having to hit the endpoint where the resistance becomes a solid wall, you could pull up gradually when you wanted to.

Most "quiet" keyboards offer little to no resistance as the key goes down, but an absolute solid wall once the key is fully down. what's more, the key does not register unless you have gone all of the way down, so you're required to hit that wall.

It's the sudden stop that's bothering the woman in question here, having constant weak resistance is what she wants.
Re:That's wierd by Ytrew+Q.+Uiop · 2003-01-01 11:30 · Score: 1

You'd think that there'd be LESS stress with an elecronic keyboard than a mechanical one. Well, the mechanical typewriter is what she found more comfortable to type on, so she'll have less strain on her wrists. But you're right, she'll have much less stress in her life if she uses the electronic keyboard. It has a backspace key. If you've ever spent twenty minutes trying to type one stupid page perfectly in typing class, you'll know what I mean. Backspace is your friend. -- Ytrew
Re:That's wierd by Tablizer · 2003-01-01 11:45 · Score: 2, Informative

Different keyboards work for different people. If you're used to typing on a Smith-Corona, I can definatly see how the "hitting a wall" can hurt your fingers.

The theory seems sound (pun): If you can rely on the click sound, then your ears serve as the feedback mechanism instead of your fingers. IOW, use audio feedback *instead of* physical (pressure) feedback. Appearently the person at issue has learned to use their ears for feedback. Perhaps most of us got too used to the pressure feedback, which is perhaps a big risk to RMI.

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Table-ized A.I.
Re:That's wierd by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 12:25 · Score: 0

Looong ago, when my mom was a secretary, she had to use mechanical typewriters for years and her fingers ached liked crazy. We don't know if it was a factor or just a painful coincidence that she developed mild arthritis in her fingers around that time.

Fortunately she was promoted around that time and no longer had to do typing for herself. But life's funny and cruel -- *her* secretary got to enjoy the newfangled electronic typewriters that were brought in about that time.

She's used PC keyboards here and there since then, and is always amazed how "soft" they all feel to her.
Re:That's wierd by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 13:51 · Score: 0

How about, "the dude's wife is a friggin' weenie"? Hopefully, this is redundant.

If she really has those problems, how about Dragon Naturally Speaking? A bit pricey, but if they are soooo worried about comfort, it is the way to go. Unless, hmmmm... "carpal tunnel" in the jaw?
Re:That's wierd by Arcturax · 2003-01-01 15:38 · Score: 2

I can attest to that... I loved my Apple Extended Keyboard II (ADB) that game with my Beige G3. I didn't have to push the keys down to the "wall" to make it work. It also had better tilt. The new Apple "black" USB keyboard sucks. I hate it, I keep missing letters while typing if I don't push down to the "wall" and when I do press down, its starting to give me achy wrists at times. Definately looking for a better keyboard for my new Mac...

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--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Re:That's wierd by cpthowdy · 2003-01-01 16:09 · Score: 0

Could use the default typing sound that ICQ uses.
Re:That's wierd by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 18:34 · Score: 0

that you can't spell "weird" correctly?
Re:That's wierd by shepd · 2003-01-01 19:50 · Score: 1

Well, that's simple. Buy a Model-M. Problem solved. Plus the heavy resistance keystroke and buckling spring mechanism provide the typewriter feel so sorely needed.

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If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Re:That's wierd by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 19:54 · Score: 0

Well she could just type Control-H instead of the BackSpace.
Re:That's wierd by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 02:28 · Score: 0

For soem of us, it works. I suspect that the need for physical effort reduces the stresing effect of the rapid movements. I learned to type on a manual machine many years ago and I've used a wide variety of keyboards since. The lighter the touch on the keyboard, the worse the RSI problem regardless of the shape and size of the keyboard; the funny shaped keyboards don't give me any advantage. The old IBM style positive touch clickety keyboards are a great improvement over extremely light keys and that's what I still use.
Re:That's wierd by greed · 2003-01-02 04:03 · Score: 2

What's really important is the possibility of follow-through. If you are used to a key which "fires" before end-of-stroke, you cannot type on a keyboard which "fires" at end-of-stroke. Attempting to push the key too far will severely strain your hands. (You get the same problem when a pianist switches to synth keyboards.)
I'm not sure if this sort of thing is really RSI, or just expected results from improper use of a switch-at-end keyboard, such as the pervasive rubber membrane. (I have a similar problem, so I make sure to only use buckling-spring keyboards and others which fire before end-of-stroke, like the really weird finger-and-wedge affair on my old Amigas.)
Sadly, left-shift is sticking on my Datadesk board. Time to drag the old IBM monster back out of the basement.
Re:That's wierd by shepd · 2003-01-02 04:17 · Score: 1

IIRC, IBM keyboards have a 70/30 stroke. But I could be wrong. I do know they fire before bottoming out. :-)

The best boards for early firing switches, though, are the ergo-force Keytronic keyboards. If that's your thing, I strong suggest getting your hands on one of those boards. Some of the keys will fire at about the 10% mark, or so I've found.

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC

this is by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:02 · Score: 0

better how for RSI?

Re:this is by Gerald · 2003-01-01 11:32 · Score: 1

...because it doesn't induce it?
Didja ever wonder why things like RSI and carpal tunnel are relatively recent phenomena, and seem to coincide with the migration from typewriter keyboards to computer keyboards?

Watch out! by Mononoke · 2003-01-01 11:03 · Score: 4, Funny

There's gonna be White-out all over the screen!

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NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local

Re:Watch out! by rjamestaylor · 2003-01-01 11:06 · Score: 5, Funny

Especially since he never got the backspace to work! (True; read the last page of his detail recounting)

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-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Re:Watch out! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:11 · Score: 1, Funny

Hate to be playing games with this keyboard.

Oh wait man. I got to do a carriage return in the middle of a street fight !
Re:Watch out! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 12:39 · Score: 0

you are a sicko.

Where's the Windows key?? by Malfourmed · 2003-01-01 11:03 · Score: 2, Funny

Just kidding!

Seriously, this is very cool. Like something out of a Terry Gilliam movie...

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a world in progress...

Seems so simple... by LostCluster · 2003-01-01 11:04 · Score: 5, Interesting

Early keyboards used to have a "clicking" resistance mechanism, until "quiet" keyboards created the "flying until you hit a wall" feeling that the poster's wife complained of.

We seem to all have standardized now on similar keyboards in tactile function, but that clearly leaves a market to serve those who perfer other styles of keyboard. Could this kind of keyboard-that-feels-like-a-typewriter device have enough appeal to get a mainstream keyboard maker behind it?

Re:Seems so simple... by silentbozo · 2003-01-01 13:13 · Score: 2

I still have an old IBM keyboard. Thing weighs 8 pounds, has a crack in it from when it was thrown in the trash (which is where I rescued it), and is missing a bunch of key caps (the old IBMs had generic blank keys, with the letters printed on a little cap that fit on top.)

Works great for Counter Strike though...
Re:Seems so simple... by jc42 · 2003-01-01 13:25 · Score: 2

Could this ... have enough appeal to get a mainstream keyboard maker behind it?

Well, I've already seen this used as an example of "market failure". After all, this isn't exactly a new story. The problems (for some people) of computer keyboards and the "mechanical typewriter" solution has been pretty much common media knowledge for several years, and there seems to be a fair amount of medical support for it.

If you believe the market theories, we obvious must have had typewriter-like keyboards for sale for several years now. No rational manufacturer would ever ignore such obvious demand. So where are they?

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--
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Re:Seems so simple... by sparrow_hawk · 2003-01-01 14:01 · Score: 1

No rational manufacturer would ever ignore such obvious demand. So where are they?

Ebay. Seriously. Search for "Northgate Omnikey" -- among the best keyboards on the planet. Tactile feedback, reprogrammable, weighs ten pounds, the whole nine yards. Only reason I don't use mine is that I type papers late at night and don't want to wake anybody up. (grin)
Re:Seems so simple... by Turbyne · 2003-01-02 01:14 · Score: 1

You can still get keyboards that click. A good number of businesses still have these things lying in closets. Ask the tech guy at your company if they've got some they're willing to donate. My dad's company had a bunch, so now we have a pile of backup IBM, Compaq, and Apple keyboards around.

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~A'Ëq'i4d)^'$ÊSÈòB

relieve repetitive stress? by jabbadeznuts · 2003-01-01 11:04 · Score: 1

How does this relieve repetitive stress?

My hands and wrists start to hurt if I use a regular keyboard. My solution, a split keyboard. It works wonders and my friends are damned if they can use it well.

Back when we wore an onion on our belt by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:04 · Score: 0

these were all the rage. 'Give me 3 dvoraks for a qwerty' they used to say.

Great! by long_john_stewart_mi · 2003-01-01 11:04 · Score: 1

With a fat typewriter like that, now the desks are complaining of too much stress!

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...oOOo..'(_)'..oOOo...

A small lesson against /. effect by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:05 · Score: 0

If you post a link to a directory, make sure it has the trailing /, otherwise your server will be doing "301 Moved Permanently" operations like mad (one per click). You already have enough with the "200 OK".

Who would have thought by Captain+Rotundo · 2003-01-01 11:05 · Score: 1

that this old keyboard would be better for RSI, not sure I believe it. Although I was thinking of doing something similar, simply because I thought the novelty would be interresting. Very Brazil/Max Headroom-esque.

Re:Who would have thought by spazoid12 · 2003-01-01 11:09 · Score: 1

Somebody did that. A case mod that makes their PC look like a terminal from Brazil. It was posted here on /. (i think) but I never actually saw it because of the "effect".
Re:Who would have thought by spazoid12 · 2003-01-01 11:18 · Score: 1

Yep, it was here on /.

Link still useless, though.

Suggestion for improvement by geeknik · 2003-01-01 11:06 · Score: 0

Wow, that's messed up.. seriously, I was just thinking about that like a week ago.. by thinking about I mean just that, I had no intention to actually do it, but if I did, I think I would have picked up one of these instead of ripping apart an existing keyboard. The I-PACs are used mainly in building MAME cabinets, but can obviously be used for other things.

the typewriter-keyboard conversion by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:06 · Score: 2, Informative

Yes, it really works. Even down to slapping the carriage return for Enter.

My wife suffers from repetive stress problems in her fingers and wrists. Sometime in October we were talking about different keyboards on the market for people such as herself. In the course of the conversation she mentioned that she finds old-fashioned mechanical typewriters much easier on her fingers because they offer gradual resistance rather than the feeling of moving through air then hitting a wall, like most computer keyboards. Ah-hah, I think to myself! At last I know what I will give her for Christmas. The first weekend after Halloween I went out and found an old Smith-Corona and got to work.

The short how-to is thus: in a regular keyboard, each keypress completes a circuit. There's a little circuit board in there and I mapped all the connections from one terminal to another. This was then replicated inside the typewriter by wires going from the circuit board to strips of adhesive lamé, which contact their counterparts when a key is pressed. Of course, it's a bit more complicated than that...

The first thing to do was take apart a regular keyboard and figure out how it worked.

The little circuit board there has two sets of thirteen terminals. A keypress is registered when a circuit is completed between one terminal from the left set and one terminal from the right set. All the rest in a keyboard is just a matter of getting the circuit to the right place.

So I started out by mapping all the connections from each terminal to each other terminal. I did this by plugging the circuit board into my laptop, clipping one end of the aligator clip to a terminal and touching the other end to every other terminal. Most of the conections produced nothing at all or perhaps a beep, but sometimes a letter would pop up and I would record which two terminals were connected. This allowed me to make a chart of the entire keyboard for later use

The first trick with the actual typewriter was to get all the regular keys to produce letters. Shift, Space, and Enter I would worry about later.

A quick look at the underside of the typewriter provided the answer.

Every time a key is pressed, the "lever" is pushed down and connects with the "crossbar" (the other end of the lever raises the hammer to strike the paper). The crossbar seems to both keep the levers from moving too far and provide the force to advance the carriage for the next letter.

So I figured I could use the contact there to complete a circuit. Obviously, each lever and each part of the crossbar that it would contact would have to be electrically insulated. Then I would need something to act as the actual contact. For insulation I used gaffer's tape, which worked admirably. For the contact patches I initially tried aluminum foil but was having a bit of trouble soldering the wire to it. I spoke to my fencing coach, who has plenty of electrical soldering experience. He told me that you simply can't solder to aluminum but offered me a rather interesting bit of material: copper lamé with an electrically conductive adhesive on the back, which I did not even know existed. The stuff is perfect for repairing fencing lamés and seemed to be just what I needed. He got it from a former student who said it was manufactured my a rival electronics comapny and he had never seen it in stores. This leant a certain mystique to the project- working with rare and somewhat mysterious material and so forth.

My first thought was to simply put the wire under the lamé and let the adhesive conduct and hold it in place, but the adhesive wasn't strong enough to keep the wires from moving around. It would have held for a while, but I needed something I could really move around, so I decided it would have to be soldered in place.

After removing the crossbar and covering it with gaffer's tape, I replaced it in the typewriter and used a silver glitter pen (you can tell this was a labour of love) to mark exactly where each hammer touched it. Then I cut triangular strips of lamé and stuck them on over the contact areas. I used alternating triangles so that each one could have some spot large enough to solder the wire in place- the even ones on one side, odd on the other.

Next up were the levers themselves. Oy, what a job. Each lever was wrapped first in gaffer's tape then in lamé. Soldering onto this lamé material works, but the problem is that the stuff is so thin that is burns/melts really easily, so any more than a minute touch of the soldering iron would put a hole in it and I would have to start again.

From here I returned to the crossbar, soldering on wires (this illustration shows only one side done).

Once this was done, it was just a matter of putting it all together. But first: the special keys.

Enter

I knew from the start that I wanted my wife to be able to hit Enter by slapping the carriage return, so as to reproduce as closely as possible the feeling of actually typing on a typewriter (which you can still do on this thing, by the way- it is still fully functional as a typewriter). Took me forever to figure out how to do it, and even then I kind of cheated.

What I finally settled on is a mechanism on the carriage itself that is responsible for dinging a bell when the typist reaches the end of a line. There is a small "hammer" that is pulled right (in this illustration) across the "anvil" when the end of a line is reached (I don't know what the hell these things are really called, so I'm just making these terms up). The anvil strikes the bell, shown through the hole in the lower left. After this is done and the end of the line is reached, the carriage comes to rest as shown in the illustration. When the carriage return is slapped, the hammer moves gently across the anvil, going in the other direction (the hammer is on a spring, so it can pivot counterclockwise around the screw shown).

I wrapped the anvil in gaffer's tape and lamè and soldered a wire to it. The trouble was the hammer. I finally gave up on attaching a wire to it, as it would be almost impossible to keep it from getting jammed in the carriage, which would be moving back and forth all the time. So I cheated- the circuit for Enter is dependant not on two pieces of lamè touching, but on one bit of lamè touching the metal frame itself, in ths case the bare hammer. I figured it would be OK: since every other wire had to be insulated from the frame anyway, it would be no more likely to cause an error than any two regular key circuits accidentally touching the frame.

After wraping the backside of the hammer in gaffer's tape so it wouldn't close the circuit when it rang the bell (which still works), all I had to do was solder a bit of wire to the frame and I was set. In case there was ever any trouble with this perhaps precarious mechanism, I also wired the key on the typewriter to act as a backup Enter.

Space

The spacebar was pretty simple, as there was a spot underneath where it struck a rubber pad. All I had to do was make the usual gaffer's tape-lamè-wire contacts and it was ready.

Shift
Shift was a bit tricky. That is, it was easy to plan but because of the tight space and awkward angles it took a bit of doing to execute. Basically it was the same sort of contact, but this time wrapped around the bar that the "Shift Lock" mechanism locks on to. Unfortunately, I had to wrap the locking mechanism in gaffer's tape to prevent a circuit from forming with the frame, and this made it unable to actually lock the shift mechanism around the bar (wrapped in gaf tape and lamé).

My only real regret on this project is that I never found a way to make the Backspace key work, since the mechanism that controls it is deep inside the typewriter, far to deep to get to without risking disaster.

The next task was to solder wires onto the terminals of the circuit board left over from the keyboard. This was a nightmare- each one was maybe two milimeters from the next so getting the solder to stay on just one was a task in itself. Then I found that a few of the wires had lifted the conductor right off the board so I had to scrape off the green insulation a little further up the circuit to redo it (the diagonal one in the illustration), like a junkie looking for a new vein. And half the time fixing one solder job would heat the one next to it enough for it to come loose. Ah, memories...

A few words of advice for anyone trying this themselves: use electronics solder- it doesn't stick to breadboard. I later got curious and tested regular solder on an old NIC and it stuck everywhere. Watch what you buy.

At this point there were wires coming from the crossbar, wires coming from the levers, and wires coming from the circuit board. Time to connect them.

Like I said earlier, each key is a connection between two terminals. Some terminals have lots of keys connected to them. For example, connecting terminal 4 and terminal 19 might produce "A" but connecting terminal 9 and terminal 19 might produce "F". Since 1-13 always connected to 14-26 and vice versa (i.e. no terminal from 1 to 13 connects to any other terminal from 1 to 13), I arbitrarily decided that the levers would all connect to 1-13 and the crossbar would connect to 14-26. Next I physically grouped all the wires by terminal, so that everything going to terminal 1 would be bundled together, everything to 2 would be together, etc. and labeled the bundles with masking tape and a marker.

By the way, should you ever do this yourself, it would be handy to start off by marking on the underside of the typewriter which lever coresponds to which key. I thought of this rather late. Duh.

With all the wires bundled, it was time to connect them to their corresponding wires from the circuit board. These were crudely soldered and covered with shrink-tubing or, when I forgot to put on the tubing first, more gaffer's tape.

Fortuitously, the circuitboard fit nicely in a little space at the back of the typewriter. I made a little insulated nest of gaffer's tape and slid it in, where it fit perfectly- nice and snug. One more round of gaf tape to hold it in place...

and it was DONE. We don't talk about the several hours I spent troubleshooting it after it was declared done, including the stuck C key on Christmas morning. Ahem.

Re:the typewriter-keyboard conversion by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:07 · Score: 0

Tell your wife I had a great time slapping your wife's carraige return and moving her crossbar last night
Re:the typewriter-keyboard conversion by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 14:56 · Score: 0

you should really look into dvorak layout. i converted my mother keyboard ot dvorak by re-arranging all the keys and adding a simple config. she'd never go back.
however your solution has a bigger coolness factor

Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:06 · Score: 0

But does it run Linux?

Maybe you should call it GNU/Keyboard.

Re:Obligatory by stevejsmith · 2003-01-01 11:25 · Score: 4, Insightful

Uh, I hope that you were kidding, but I can't help but fear that you weren't. Keyboards are operating system agnostic. You can use the same keyboard (with some different connectors for the older and more obscure, of course) with DOS, Windows XP, TiVo Linux, RedHat 8, OS/2, BeOS, a $100,000 IBM mainframe, a Sun SmartCard terminal, or anythign else that you use a keyboard to interact with. There is no need (and none that emplow it, to my knowledge) for a CPU, much a less an operating system, for a keyboard. It's simply circuitry.
Re:Obligatory by n6mod · 2003-01-01 11:36 · Score: 4, Interesting

Sorry, but you're quite wrong about the lack of a CPU. Most (all?) PC keyboards have an 8048, or an 8048 core in an ASIC. 'Twas the stuff of legendary hackery to harness that 8048 for your own purposes, back in the day.

--
You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.
Re:Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:56 · Score: 0

1. Get RSI
2. Get better keyboard
3. ???
4. PROFI...Ouch! Damnit still hurts
Re:Obligatory by stevejsmith · 2003-01-01 11:56 · Score: 1

Oh. Well that's enlightening. However I think that is just a technicallity and my point still stands: you can't, nor would it be useful, to open source a keyboard.
Re:Obligatory by n6mod · 2003-01-01 20:47 · Score: 2

Actually, I'd quite like to have open-source 8048 code for a keyboard, such that I could build a sensible PCB for a custom keyboard, and not screw around with lunacy like this.

This might be moot with USB hardware, though. Don't know, haven't looked.

--
You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.

!keyboard by silent_poop · 2003-01-01 11:07 · Score: 0

Forget pictures of the typewriter. We want pictures of your wife.

--

--
silence is poetry.

how to save money & work less by spazoid12 · 2003-01-01 11:07 · Score: 5, Funny

Wow, my wife wanted stuff like diamonds and expensive kitchen stuff. But, I could've saved money and got her instead something from the thrift store and a bunch of solder?

This also reminds me of my dad. He had old tools he preferred. No matter what fancy new modern tool we might buy for him, he prefers to use his old tools. And he never gets anything done. I thought only guys used that trick to get out of work.

Re:how to save money & work less by spazoid12 · 2003-01-01 11:34 · Score: 1

Sounds like somebody is bitter...

Or, doesn't understand humor? Truth is, my wife wanted a camera. I got her a digital one that she is crazy about.

I don't understand these pissy types always posting Anonymous Coward. If you have an opinion stand up. Or, go back to your Playdoh.
Re:how to save money & work less by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 13:02 · Score: 0

Some wives are shallow and like shiny objects. Others are more thoughtful...

My experiance by oliverthered · 2003-01-01 11:11 · Score: 5, Interesting

Well, I play the guitar, not that well but that's another story.

I find I get more problems with my hands from using the wheel on the mouse then from playing the guitar.

Although the motions are fairly simila, the extra bit of resistance on the guitar strings might be what prevents the stress....

I've never had any problems typing, and I've been doing that long enough. (though again I use clicky not soft keyboards).

--
thank God the internet isn't a human right.

Finally! ICQ Makes Sense! by Myriad · 2003-01-01 11:13 · Score: 5, Funny

Those irritating typewriter sound effects in ICQ finally make sense!

--
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'

Re:Finally! ICQ Makes Sense! by anarchima · 2003-01-01 13:07 · Score: 1

Imagine the echo...

--
The Welkin: Online Music Reviews

I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by rcs1000 · 2003-01-01 11:13 · Score: 5, Funny

It made this wonderful 'click' sound when you pressed a key, and it felt beautiufully made. I used it as my main typing keyboard for ages (although I needed a connector for using it with those pesky PS/2 ports we have these days...)

Best of all it was beautiful to use. If only the 's' key hasn't gone.

The funny bit is, I never missed the 'Windows' key.

(If anyone has a WORKING IBM keyboard like this, please, please reply as I would love to get a hold of another...)

--
--- My dad's political betting

Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by bgeiger · 2003-01-01 11:21 · Score: 1

I have a PS/2 keyboard (I mean an honest-to-God PS/2 keyboard, one that came with the PS/2 system) that works like that.

But you aren't getting it. I love it.

I'd love to find more, though. I've heard rumors of a company producing similar keyboards (for some reason Lexmark jumps to mind, since they built the original, but with IBM nameplates).

Some sites still claim to sell them... Google is your friend.

--
o/~ All God's children shall be free in Pirates of the Caribbean, when we reach that Magic Kingdom in the sky... o/~
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by FearUncertaintyDoubt · 2003-01-01 11:22 · Score: 2

I have three or so of those 5-lb IBM desk dominators that I grabbed from being tossed out at my old job. What's it worth to ya?
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Trracer · 2003-01-01 11:23 · Score: 1

We have tons of them at work, some even new in the original packaging! They are with PS/2 connectors too. Altho, wonder what the shipping would be from Sweden.

--
English is not my first language, so cut me some slack -: Om du kan lasa det har sa kan du Svenska :-
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by spacefrog · 2003-01-01 11:28 · Score: 2

These are the only keyboards that I will use. Every system I use has one.

They are called a "type M" or "model M", depending upon who you ask.

They are actually quite easy to find. I have purchased several from goodwill for $5/each. You can also find them on EBay fairly cheap.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by vanadium4761 · 2003-01-01 11:29 · Score: 1

The keyboard you are talking about is called an IBM Model M. I was at a school district auction recently and have a box of about 20 of them in my garage. I'm using one right now.
Contact me if you are interested. (jason@vallery.net)
You can find out more about these keyboards here (Warning: Not my site, Turn speakers off before visiting).
FYI: Ctrl+Esc has the same function as the Windows key.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by bryanp · 2003-01-01 11:30 · Score: 2

It was probably an IBM Model M. I'm typing on one now and I have several more in the closet for future use (between cats and my wife I've already ruined 2). I acquired them after junking out old PS/2 76's at work.

If you want one of your very own, go to eBay and type "ibm keyboard m" in the search field. Plenty of results.

--
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Tablizer · 2003-01-01 11:33 · Score: 1

They are called a "type M" or "model M",

I found about a page-full on Ebay. Better grab 'em fast. (Search: "IBM model M keyboard".)

--
Table-ized A.I.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2003-01-01 11:37 · Score: 2

There is an Avant brand keyboard that is supposed to be the modern successor to the Northgate and IBM keyboards:

http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/menu.ht m

If you want a particular kind of quality, be prepared to pay for it, the base 104 key model is $150, the 116 key model is $200. I've paid as much for the computer I am using right now.

Apparently these are reprogrammable and you can rearrange and macro program the keys any way you like.

I really don't know if I like this kind of keyboard anyway. Back when these were standard I always felt they were too stiff and clunky. With membrane keyboards I don't have to press as hard, or so it seems to me.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by sys$manager · 2003-01-01 11:43 · Score: 2

I had a brand new one that I picked up from a place I used to work with old IBM equipment. It was in the box and everything. I threw it out when I moved two months ago.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Urchlay · 2003-01-01 11:50 · Score: 3, Informative

You can find the good IBM keyboards at thrift stores, swap meets, hamfests, used computer dealers, computer salvage yards.. usually for under $5 (hell, usually for under $2).

The good ones are called the `IBM Model M', and they have real springs under the keys. More info at http://modelm.org

I personally own about 50 or 60 of these, but you can't have any of them (they're my lifetime supply of keyboards. Yes, you can use a PS/2 => USB adaptor with them, so they should work on new hardware for many years to come). I've managed to break only one Model M in my life... well actually my old boss did, he dumped a 16oz. Starbuck's coffee with extra cream & sugar directly into it, and I didn't find out about it until it had had time to congeal.. probably I could have salvaged it by running it through the dishwasher, but it was starting to draw flies, so I decided it was dead...

Just hit the thrift shops, you'll find them...
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by aardvarkjoe · 2003-01-01 11:57 · Score: 2

I have about 4 of them sitting in a box -- however, they have a weird connector (large, 5 pins in a half circle -- I thought that they were the AT-style connectors, but I tried the AT -> PS/2 connector I had sitting around and it didn't fit.) Any suggestions where I could find an adaptor for them?

--

How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by kuroth · 2003-01-01 12:03 · Score: 1

They're called buckling spring keyboards. They kick all kinds of ass. They'll last forever, you can clean them in the dishwasher, and they're heavy enough to club an intruder with.

PCKeyboard sells new ones, but you can regularly find used ones at computer shows and flea markets.

PCKeyboard also sells the same keyboard with a trackpoint. It's handy, but the keyboard invariably lasts far, far longer than the trackpoint.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by xombo · 2003-01-01 12:11 · Score: 1

Our school has these on their computers that are new, they still make keyboards like that, and the click noise does make typing more enjoyable for some reason. They still make these, I think that they were by Accent Systems or somthing.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by IOOOOOI · 2003-01-01 12:12 · Score: 1

Speaking of old IBM keyboards... I saw an ancient IBM terminal at a company I used to work for several years ago that had a big, at least 4" high, keyboard attached to it. When you struck a key, a solenoid inside the keyboard was activated, which moved a fairly heavy hunk of metal that was attached to it. This produced a sensation similar to that of the "golf ball" of a Selectric typewriter striking the paper.
The only hypothesis that I could come up with as to why this keyboard was made this way, is that at the time (remember, eletronic terminals were very new) IBM may have feared that the relative lack of tactile feedback would turn people off, so they engineered it back into the device.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Robotech_Master · 2003-01-01 12:17 · Score: 2

There's a local surplus computer salvage shop in my town that had, like a whole bunch of IBM PS/2 keyboards. Ones that use the modern miniature-sized connector, no less. And they were selling them for just a couple of bucks each. (I rather suspect that they got them from SMSU, because I happen to recall their computer labs used to use these old PS/2s, with PS/2 keyboards, back in the WordPerfect 5.1 days when I first arrived.) I'm on my second now, and I have a spare for when this one wears out.

And I don't miss the windows keys either. ;)

--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Inthewire · 2003-01-01 12:24 · Score: 2, Insightful

FYI: Ctrl+Esc has the same function as the Windows key

Just so you know, CTRL+ESC + L doesn't work the same as Window Key + L in Windows XP Professional.

--

Writers imply. Readers infer.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by dasunt · 2003-01-01 12:29 · Score: 2

Hate to tell you this, but that sounds like an AT connector.

It should be larger then a PS/2 connector, with five robust pins, in a half-circle. Assuming that the center of the circle is the center of a clock, pins will be at 3, 4:30, 6, 7:30 and 9.

The PS/2 connector has 6 pins, but one of the pins is N/C (not connected). Otherwise, its just a mechanical conversion from the larger AT style to the smaller PS/2 style.

Of course, there is a lot of computer styles out there, and what appears to be a normal AT-style connector could be some weird proprietary or non-pc connection.

Google for a bit, and if you're stumped, take a picture of the keyboards, and the connectors, make a simple webpage with the ability for users to add comments, and link the page to your sig. You should get an answer. :)
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by ball-lightning · 2003-01-01 12:47 · Score: 1

I have a keyboard like that, but the backspace button is broken =( Now I have one of those IBM Quick Access keyboards (one of the ones with the buttons on the top). Although I used to like the clicky keyboards, I know prefer the quieter clicks that have a more plasticy sound (as opposed to a loud metallic-like sound). I don't know why, though.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by pi_rules · 2003-01-01 12:54 · Score: 2

Hate to tell you this, but that sounds like an AT connector.

AT's not really a connector style -- it's a protocol. The XT system (pre AT) used the same 5 pin half-circle connector. It's not terribly uncommon on older keyboards to find a switch to move from XT to AT style.

I'd look on the bottom, under the little flip-up panels to help tilt the keyboard to you. You might find a little switch there.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by sfe_software · 2003-01-01 12:56 · Score: 2

FYI: Ctrl+Esc has the same function as the Windows key.

Well, almost. I hated the Windows key at first, and made mine into "Any" keys (with a sharpie) on one keyboard.

But holding the Windows key and pressing 'D', for example, clears your desktop (minimizes all windows). Win+R gives you the Start --> Run box; Win+E pops up Windows Explorer, and there are others.

CTRL+ESC only gives you that stupid "Pop up the start menu" feature (and has since long before the Win-keys). I honestly hate that function being on the Windows keys, and wish I could have Win-keys that DIDN'T do that (but still provided the shortcut functions). Too many times I've hit the Win-key by accident, meaning to hit CTRL or ALT... and so I lose focus where I was typing and see the start menu. When I actually want to pop up the start menu, I'm still in the habit of hitting CTRL+ESC anyway.

On Linux they're handy. On my RedHat systems the Windows keys switch consoles (similar to ALT+left and right arrows), while the "right-click" key toggles between the current and previous consoles.

--
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by pi_rules · 2003-01-01 12:57 · Score: 2

Every system I use has one.

How about at work? I've never even bothered trying to bring in one of these things there just because they cause a fair amount of racket -- especially when I'm flipping away at 80-100wpm :). I type loud enough on a quiet keyboard that I've gotten the occasional passerby to stop by my cube thinking I'm beating something to death.

Anybody here ever brought one of these things into a cube farm? Just wondering how much it bothers other employees, if it does at all.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 13:17 · Score: 0

The IBM Model M is a wonderful keyboard, and I am a Mac User! In the early days of computing I used to use an old PC-AT (with a 30 MB hard drive) and the keyboard was an old Model M. I wish Apple would pay royalties to IBM and get that tactile technology in their keyboards. I present use one of the current Apple Black extended keyboards, and quite frankly they suck. I'm a touch typist and I find that current keyboards for computers just don't compare to some of the old technology, especially old IBM Selectric typwriters (didn't use it much, but loved the keyboard). Just because it's new doesn't make it better.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by BAPenguin · 2003-01-01 13:45 · Score: 1

You inspired me to go retrieve my old Model M out of the basement and recommision it for use. Nothing like using a keyboard that is almost 20 years old, but I am convineced that coachroaches, Joan Rivers and Model M keyboards will be the only things to survive a nuclear holocost.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by really? · 2003-01-01 13:51 · Score: 1

I see them all the time in some of the "junk" shops in Akihabara. Also, they pop up all the time on Ebay, as others have pointed out.
So, if you really want one, try e-bay first, if you can't get one, send me an e-mail and next time I do a "walk about" in Akihabara I will pick one up - about US$ 5.00 or so, but shipping might be more than that...

--

"Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by RollingThunder · 2003-01-01 14:54 · Score: 2

Considering people used to use mechanical typewriters in rooms full of desks with 4 foot spacings and NO cubicle walls... stuff 'em. If they don't like it, tough noogies.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by sconeu · 2003-01-01 14:56 · Score: 2

Ah yes.... the original IBM 101key. I swore by it. I never gave it up until I had to... used it for years on my HDS X-Terminal!

--
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by spacefrog · 2003-01-01 15:23 · Score: 2

I've brought them into cubefarms-a-plenty. Yes, it does bother people. No, I don't care. No, they don't ask me to take it home.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Loligo · 2003-01-01 15:28 · Score: 2

>Anybody here ever brought one of these things into a cube farm?

At IBM in the early 90's I worked in a cube farm (Austin campus, building 42), where my primary machine was a PS/2 mod 80 with an 8514 display.

It had a model M keyboard attached to it, and I used to regularly get people stopping by my desk to see what the hell was going on (I was typing around 130wpm at the time, I'm down to 110 or so now). Nobody ever complained about the noise so much as treated me as some sort of curiosity (I guess I was the fastest on the first floor at the time or something, I know there were people upstairs that were faster).

I've tried to keep a model M on my home machine since, and have usually managed to do so... though once I had to settle for a "compact" model. Same buckling-spring design, but with more of a laptop-style layout.

-l
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Skuld-Chan · 2003-01-01 17:05 · Score: 2

I actually still have mine :) - I think it came with an IBM 286 AT but it works just fine on my Althon 1200. It even has the word perfect template glued to the top still, with the lotus 123 template glued below that. (F7 is quit in wp 5, and F10 graphed in lotus 123...) I actually saw a lot of them go out with the trash as companies "upgraded".

I've found that I can actually type faster on this keyboard then most any other keyboard. The ones that come with Dell's these days for instance are really horrible. Its what I have on my work computer though :(.

I do have another spare, but I've seen these same keyboards at goodwill for like 5-8 dollars.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 17:17 · Score: 0

I threw it out when I moved two months ago.

Why, God, why?
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by ShadowDrake · 2003-01-01 17:27 · Score: 1

You can easily do better than $5. Check if your local university has a surplus equipment sales yard. Mine does. Huge box of keyboards... everything from real Model Ms to Sun something-or-others to Apple Extended IIs to modern rubbish... as-is, 50 cents a throw. Take home a bucketload of Ms, and swap parts (I took one with sound switches, but several keys missing, and another with all keys there but a sticky tab) until you have a good one.

--
It's just like a fascist dictatorship, without the punctual rail service!
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by gotr00t · 2003-01-01 17:39 · Score: 1

Yeah, what is WITH the Windows key... it's almost useless. Even when I was using Windows, I never used it once. As a matter of fact, I don't even know what it's actually for besides M$ spreading subliminal messages on keyboards.
I try to stay as far away from Windows and M$ as I can, but it's still ironic how my keyboard has 2 windows symbols on it, and my mouse has 'Microsoft' printed on it below the left button.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Omicron · 2003-01-01 18:36 · Score: 1

(If anyone has a WORKING IBM keyboard like this, please, please reply as I would love to get a hold of another...)

Just search eBay for an IBM Type-M keyboard, you can find them pretty easily. My company just tossed hundreds of them - we all dived in and grabbed a few before they went to the recycle/dump/wherever, but they are still pretty easy to find.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by dasunt · 2003-01-01 21:07 · Score: 2

So what do you call the 5-pin DIN connector when you are referring to the typical older keyboard style?
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by nathanroberts · 2003-01-01 23:18 · Score: 1

I've had a couple of those in my lifetime, both with a bit of a twist.

The first one was an ordinary 101-key layout, except it was missing the Num/Caps/Scroll lock LEDs. I got it off an old XT that someone dumped off on me.

Unfortunately I took it apart for cleaning one day and never got it back together. The keys ended up falling on the floor and getting stepped on (and thus getting mangled)

Now I've got another one like it, except this one is missing the entire numeric keypad. (It also, like the last one, has no LEDs) TBH, I don't really miss it. And the keyboard ends up taking up less desk space this way.

The only real annoyance is the lack of LEDs; you can't tell if you have CAPS LOCK ON UNTIL YOU START TYPING. Fortunately I have Capslock remapped as the 'Hyper' key in X, and Num Lock is pretty meaningless without a numberpad.
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 03:22 · Score: 0

God, haven't you people heard of EBay? Just search on "IBM Click Keyboard" there's only about a million of them out there. To wit, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate gory=4706&item=2084753666
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Nexus7 · 2003-01-02 03:53 · Score: 1

I have a wonderful new IBM like that. Off EBay. Or, if you prefer, from pckeyboard.com. Also my wrist hurt from using a mouse, so I got this one http://store.yahoo.com/pckeyboards/onthestick.html ) (that has a trackpoint built-in. This is a serious keyboard.
Then I got my Thinkpad. Man, what a keyboard!
I wonder though, are Thinkpad keyboards spill-proof? Any experiences?
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Iffy+Bonzoolie · 2003-01-02 05:37 · Score: 1

According to pckeyboard.com,
the two plug styles are DIN and mini-DIN. They qualify them as the AT DIN and the PS2 mini-DIN, but that's probably just to clarify for customers.

I believe that MIDI also uses the DIN and mini-DIN plugs.

-If

--
Run a pencil-and-paper RPG campaign with your far-off friends: Gametable!
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by rela · 2003-01-02 06:26 · Score: 1

There at tons of Model M keyboards in the thrift stores, just look around a bit. Shouldn't cost more that $2... And they're a heck of alot more drop-resistant than modern keyboards, and fit my larger hands better...
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 06:33 · Score: 0

Ah, memories. . .

When I was in Kindergarten, after school I would walk to my Mom's office and sit behind her desk (read, hide from her boss). She was a data enterer-er, um, she typed stuff. She used a Wang terminal that had a gooseneck (I called it E.T.). Her keyboard had that same solenoid mechanism and I was completely enarmoured with it. When she would type a keystoke it would make a thud you could feel in the desk. My favorite time of day was 5pm when she would hand me a stack of 8" floppy disks that I would put one at a time into a disk drive as big as me while she did daily backup.

That terminal made a huge impression on my 5 year old mind and is probably why I am ended up in computers.

Sorry for the irrelavance, funny how your childhood memories can be tied to the oddest things. :)
Re:I had a wonderful old IBM like that... by mkweise · 2003-01-02 21:10 · Score: 1

50 or 60 of these {....] they're my lifetime supply of keyboards

Damn, that's enough to last seven or eight generations of your descendants.
I got mine with a second-hand IBM AT back in 1990, and used it daily until just a few months ago, when one of my wife's cats chewed through the cable. I see no reason why it shouldn't last a few more decades (at which time keyboards will probably be obsolete relics known only to geeks like us, who think speech recognition is for wimps.)

Anyone happen to know of a good source for keyboard cables?

--
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!

You forgot the escape key! by schlpbch · 2003-01-01 11:14 · Score: 5, Funny

Your wife will be stuck in vi forever.

Re:You forgot the escape key! by pkiguruman · 2003-01-01 11:23 · Score: 4, Funny

anybody with this much time to waste on a project HAS to be an emacs user...
Re:You forgot the escape key! by markov_chain · 2003-01-01 11:40 · Score: 5, Funny

Hook Esc to a switch placed under a mat at the room entry. Then, whenever you need it, escape the room!

Come to think of it, this would be an awesome torture chamber for vi users.

--
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
Re:You forgot the escape key! by idiot900 · 2003-01-01 12:53 · Score: 3, Informative

Ctrl-[ is equivalent to Esc, and even saves a little bit of time compared to having to move your left hand all the way up to Esc.
Re:You forgot the escape key! by zook · 2003-01-01 16:15 · Score: 1

Which is why I usually remap Caps Lock to an extra Esc. What a useless key...
Re:You forgot the escape key! by shepd · 2003-01-01 20:02 · Score: 1

>Which is why I usually remap Caps Lock to an extra Esc. What a useless key...

Useless? Without that key how would we ever be able to differentiate between AOL users and 1337 hax0rz?

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Re:You forgot the escape key! by nytes · 2003-01-02 06:56 · Score: 2

Article is /.'d, so I can see the picture.

But where is the Ctrl key on a typewriter?

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-- I have monkeys in my pants.

There's different kinds of RSI by JaredOfEuropa · 2003-01-01 11:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

Some people will feel pain in their fingertips when striking the keys because of the hard stop. Using a clickety IBM keyboard doesn't help and in some cases makes it worse. The impact on the fingers on a mechanical typewriter is much more gradual, with a soft stop at the end of the key travel.

You're right though that the keys on such a typewriter are harder to press, possibly leading to a different kind of RSI, which can be alleviated by switching from a typewriter to a regular keyboard, as some people working in a typing pool have found in the past.

The typewriter is an interesting solution, but I wonder if this woman might be off just as well with one of those rubber keyboards like the ones that came with those IBM PS/1 systems.

--
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...

OLED Based Paper by Myriad · 2003-01-01 11:15 · Score: 2

Hey, now all he needs is some OLED Paper with Digital Ink and he's set!

Oh wait...

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"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'

Re:OLED Based Paper by macmurph · 2003-01-02 05:14 · Score: 1

Actually some eink and any ordinary sheet of paper will work too.

Can he replace my mouse? by DeadVulcan · 2003-01-01 11:16 · Score: 2

I tend to have a lot more trouble with my mouse in terms of repetetive stress.

I wonder if this guy can replace it with my old Etch-a-Sketch? :-)

--
Accountability on the heads of the powerful.
Power in the hands of the accountable.

Re:Can he replace my mouse? by silne · 2003-01-01 11:53 · Score: 1

I got one of those nice mousemats that has a little pillow for my wrist. Say goodbye to strained wrist after 5 straight hours of gaming.

On a side note, the expensive version of this leaves hardly any room to move the mouse. I found the cheaper version works just as well and you don't need to worry about hitting the edge of the mousemat simply by trying to get to the edge of the screen. (Even with mouse sensitivity set to stupid levels you run out of space on the mousemat after 5 minutes. We have the expensive version of the mat at work.)
Re:Can he replace my mouse? by selan · 2003-01-01 13:01 · Score: 2

I tend to have a lot more trouble with my mouse in terms of repetetive stress.
What I'd love is a mouse that's shaped like a pen. Here's how my dream mouse would work: you would grip it like a pen, click the buttons with your forefinger and thumb and make a simple drawing motion on the mouse pad to move the cursor. To select, you would hold down the button and draw like you were using a highlighter to highlight text in a book. It seems to me that the motions of writing are much more natural than any mouse or trackball I've ever used, and also more intuitive.

It's such a simple thing that I'm sure someone has made one already, but I haven't been able to find it. Has anyone ever seen a mouse like this?
Re:Can he replace my mouse? by elijah_616 · 2003-01-01 13:43 · Score: 1

If you have the money tablets let you do that. The wacom one's have a toggle switch for right and left click.
You may be able to butcher an optical mouse to do something like that to. Probably be bulky, you could fit it into a Dr. Grip pen if the circutboard was shaped correctly though.
Re:Can he replace my mouse? by Kompressor · 2003-01-01 15:10 · Score: 1

Check these out: http://www.wacom.com/productinfo/index.cfm

I have the Graphire2 model, and it's quite useful for doing some tasks, such as screwing around in photoshop, but I still fall back to a regular mouse for most things.

Under windows, the rectangle maps directly to your screen, so if your pen is in the bottom left hand corner, the mouse is in the bottom left hand corner, and if you pick the pen up, out of range of the tablet, and put it down in the upper right, the cursor will jump there. This behaviour can be changed with it's drivers, and under linux it works just like a regular USB mouse (the pad only follows the pen's movement, it doesn't map it directly to the screen.)

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kmem russian roulette: Aquillar> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/kmem bs=1 count=1 seek=$RANDOM
Re:Can he replace my mouse? by adolf · 2003-01-01 16:42 · Score: 2

Tablets of this sort have been around for a long time -- the most popular made by Wacom, and the cheapest model being the $99 Graphire. I've seen these for sale even at Wal-Mart..

Not a bad kit, really - you get a pen and a scrollwheel mouse that you can use interchangably. Neither the pen nor the mouse require any electricity at all, instead relying on magnets and some trick inductive stuff inside the tablet. It's pressure-sensitive, too.

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Kid-proof tablet..
Re:Can he replace my mouse? by selan · 2003-01-02 02:09 · Score: 2

That looks very promising! They're marketing it for graphics use, though. How is it with text? Copy and paste, etc?
Re:Can he replace my mouse? by Kompressor · 2003-01-02 06:21 · Score: 1

As far as text entry goes, it can be done, but it's a pain in the arse, as is pretty much all handwriting recognition. I use it ocasionally for entering kanji (Japanese characters) but other than that, I still use the keyboard.

As for copy/paste work, I believe that the little side rocker switch can be programmed to be ^X ^V ^C etc, but I keep it as down -> right-click, up -> double left-click. The little pen tip acts as a left click by default, and tapping the pen twice fast enough and in the same spot is a pain in the arse.

I don't think these things are ready for mainstream text input just yet. Perhaps someone will be able to hack out the new TabletPC IMEs to work with these things...

As well, XP has a bit more in the way of handwriting recognition/pen input support, but I'm currently running 2K on the non-linux boxes here, so I can't give you a review of it.

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kmem russian roulette: Aquillar> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/kmem bs=1 count=1 seek=$RANDOM

Learn to move fingers less or use less force by jjl · 2003-01-01 11:17 · Score: 1

If "hitting a wall" seems to be a problem when writing with a regular keyboard, I'd suggest trying to learn using less force when writing with keyboard. That way the impact should be smaller when finger hits a key and gets stop when key is down.

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Re:Learn to move fingers less or use less force by noshellswill · 2003-01-01 11:34 · Score: 0

Wrongwrongwrong pad're. The ideal is not that WE (humans) become more like the machines ( or accomidate ourselfs to the soulless bas*ards ), but that the machines be configured to kiss our royal butts. Wherever that happens to be. A robots first rule is to do NO HARM to a human!! So can the algorythms byteboyz and crank-up the heuristics. Get the drift, pad're ??
Re:Learn to move fingers less or use less force by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 14:51 · Score: 0

But what about the zeroeth rule? OH! Snap! Caught you on that one! A robot can break the first rule in service of the zeroeth. And what about those freaks who were missing the second half of the first rule?
Posting anonymously to rebel against the evil slashdot counterculture. Plus I like karma, considering thats the only thing I can whore. Back to the basement! ::theme song plays:: whee

Max Headroom anyone? by daves · 2003-01-01 11:18 · Score: 0, Offtopic

I continue to be amazed at how prescient that show was.

Too bad that now he can't survive an entire miniseries now.

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People who disagree with you are not automatically evil, greedy, or stupid.

Dvorak? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:18 · Score: 0

I made the change a year ago. My fingers haven't been in pain ever since.

It's much easier to change to Dvorak than it is to change to anything else. Just rearrange yaur keyfboard. Then select Dvorak as yaur keyboard layout. (All mainstream OSes since Mac OS 7/Win 3.1 support it)

And relearn.

It took me about one and a half weeks to regain my typing speed. I haven't looked back since. I'm faster than ever. And I can still use Qwerty keyboard, albeit with a few difficulties.

You could even rearrange the layout at work. Like I did.

More info on Dvorak

I do realise that converting to a typewriter is great in itself, but for many reasons Dvorak beats anything else out there.

Greetings,
The Coward.

Add a mini-itx and then we have something by codepunk · 2003-01-01 11:19 · Score: 2

Nice hack but I think a mini-itx could be squeezed in there as well. This would make is a full up self contained system. Then go for the retro look and add a lcd to the top of the carriage....Priceless

--

Got Code?

Re:Add a mini-itx and then we have something by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 16:21 · Score: 0

Add a VIA-M, some small NTSC LCD, and a custom win98 shell, and you have Spider Jerusalem's laptop!

OK, but by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:20 · Score: 0

how do you get it to print?

no backaspace key??? by pkiguruman · 2003-01-01 11:20 · Score: 5, Funny

what good is the keyboard if you can't backapspce? the user must be a bpretyt damn good typist.

(or maybe I'm just a really poor typist)

Re:no backaspace key??? by Doktor+Memory · 2003-01-01 18:13 · Score: 2

Two words: white-out.

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News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.

Model M by name_already_taken · 2003-01-01 11:21 · Score: 1

You're thinking of the Model M keyboard.

I have one of the last IBM model M keyboards on my desk at work. I also have two at home, I picked them up from thrift stores for about $5 each.

Why did they stop making these things? There's no better keyboard.

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Putting moderation advice in your .sig lowers your karma!

Re:Model M by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 00:44 · Score: 0

They are not Windows compliant because they don't include the Windows keys. All PC keyboards must have Windows keys.. it's the law. Even laptops. I'm not sure when it passed, but sometime around 1995.

How does a keyboard work by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:23 · Score: 0

Does anyone know any good website where is explained how a keyboard works? I've had a dream of converting my first PCs (Amstrad PC1512) keyboard to work with new PCs.

I once tried to get a keyboard of HP Apollo (the best keyboard I have ever used!) to work in PCs but I never succeeded. Any help is much appreciated!

Re:How does a keyboard work by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:29 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Theres an article on keyboards at how stuff works!

My Dream Keybored by CowboyTodd · 2003-01-01 11:26 · Score: 0

Would be a wireless ergonomic "clicky" keybored. Anyone have any ideas where the hell I'd get one?

origin of the "windows key" by SHEENmaster · 2003-01-01 11:26 · Score: 3, Informative

it actually started on the early Apple computers as Open Apple and Closed Apple then moved to Command for the ADB(Apple Desktop Bus) keyboards of the macintoshes.

As for Linux support, the command keys on my Linux iBook work the same way as the winshit key (whiteouted of course) on my Linux server.

It looks as if he is connecting this typewriter to an older (pre usb switchover) macintosh, but I haven't found a specific quote to that effect.

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You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.

Re:origin of the "windows key" by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 16:22 · Score: 0

I find no evidence ke is connecting this to a mac. The pictures of the end of the cable show an AT connector with an AT to PS2 adapter on the end.
Re:origin of the "windows key" by SN74S181 · 2003-01-01 19:48 · Score: 1

I'm not so sure it 'started out' as an Apple thing. My Sun type 5 keyboards have keys surrounding the spacebar similar to the ones on a modern Windoze keyboard.

But we can say it's another Apple Invention if it makes some people feel good.
Re:origin of the "windows key" by Chakotay · 2003-01-02 01:00 · Score: 2

My Commodore 16 (yes, an ancient ancestor of the more well-known C64) had Commodore keys (with the C= logo on it), that were generally used to create special characters. And I guess the Commodore 16 well outdates any Mac or PC :)

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Never underestimate the power of stupidity
To err is human, to moo bovine
Re:origin of the "windows key" by ChristTrekker · 2003-01-02 02:14 · Score: 1

But does it predate the Apple ][? The poster said that's where the extra meta-keys (Open Apple, Closed Apple) started.

PS, Slashdot, my preview says that it's 6 PM on the 1st, but it's about 8:20 CST on the 2nd.

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Constitutionally Correct
Re:origin of the "windows key" by squiggleslash · 2003-01-02 02:21 · Score: 1

The VIC 20 was the ancestor of the C64. The C16 came out at the same time as the Plus 4, the latter inteded to be the all-new replacement for the C64 (and a miserable failure IIRC.)
Mind you, your point is valid - the VIC 20 (circa 1981) also had Commodore keys.

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You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:origin of the "windows key" by foog · 2003-01-02 04:45 · Score: 1

The Apple meta-keys were introduced with the Apple IIe, not the II or II+.

foog
Re:origin of the "windows key" by SN74S181 · 2003-01-02 07:04 · Score: 1

Now, I know that the C-64 was seen by a lot of people as the poor-man's Apple II (lots of kids bought them because it's what they could afford- remember the Apple II was actually taken seriously as a expensive business computer for a short time..). The Vic-20 is also from that early period. I think you'd have to go back to the CBM line from Commodore to find a machine that wasn't designed as a knockoff of the Apple II.

Laptop by jeffmock · 2003-01-01 11:27 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Beautiful. For Valentine's day I think you
should put an LCD in the lid of the case and
make a post-modern laptop out of the thing.
I've got some parts for you if you're up for
it.

jeff

I can't wait... by Quaoar · 2003-01-01 11:27 · Score: 2

...till someone figures out how to attach DaVinci's helicopter design to an Apache.

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I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!

Re:I can't wait... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 09:35 · Score: 0

Da Vinci made webservers?!

Where to buy old Style IBM Keyboards by Deathlizard · 2003-01-01 11:31 · Score: 5, Informative

http://www.pckeyboard.com/

They made the original IBM keyboards and they still make them.

--
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!

Re:Where to buy old Style IBM Keyboards by Corporate+Troll · 2003-01-01 12:07 · Score: 1

Thanks dude... I ordered two at once!
Re:Where to buy old Style IBM Keyboards by peeping_Thomist · 2003-01-01 15:35 · Score: 2

I bought two from them last summer, when /. had a story about keyboards and several people mentioned them, but both keyboards were defective. I returned one for repair, and it came back defective (several non-working keys). The shipping costs were piling up, so I quit. The keyboards are a great idea, but I spent $100 and still don't have one.

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Anything worth doing is worth doing badly -- G.K. Chesterton
Re:Where to buy old Style IBM Keyboards by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 16:10 · Score: 0

There are many of the ones made by IBM on Ebay. Some are better in better shape than others, and it's sort of hit or miss whether you get a really good one. They're usually cheap enough that you can buy three or four and have good odds of getting at least one in good condition.
Re:Where to buy old Style IBM Keyboards by wintermute1974 · 2003-01-01 17:01 · Score: 1

It's really unfortunate that you've had bad experiences getting used Model M keyboards operational, but I suggest that you try again. I don't think your Modem M experiences are typical.

I suggest that you start scowering the old computer junk stores in your neighborhood for a Model M. The United Way thirft shop may be worth a trip, as may be a quick visit to some of your less tech-savvy friends and relatives that may have one of these beauties still connected to their 386.

In the last ten years, I have had four of these keyboards, and in total, I haven't paid what you have for the lot of them, nor have I had any electro-mechanical problems. Other than popping off the keycaps and giving them a good wash, I've never had any problems -- which I would argue is typical for the Model M, which was created when engineers would rather over-design a product than compromise the design in order to shave pennies on manufacturing costs.

I've bought two of these keyboards new from stores eager to get rid of them when Windows 95 first came out. (It's a good thing that most people can't tell the difference between good keyboards and bad, or this would have never happened.)

As well, I've rescued two from work. (Due to the staff accountants on salary, not only are old computers written off the books, but they are physically destroyed with a hammer before being tossed in the dumpster. In with the pile of cheap VT220-clone and HP dumb terminals, I once found two grubby Model M keyboards.)
Re:Where to buy old Style IBM Keyboards by Jagasian · 2003-01-01 17:10 · Score: 2

I have a Model M, purchased from PCKeyboard.com about 5 years ago. The keyboard is a tank. It is heavy, tough, with nice large clicky keys. It is noisy, and ugly looking... but these are the best keyboards ever made!!!

I highly recommend that you buy one if you see it priced under $100. They are uncommon, and last a lifetime.
Re:Where to buy old Style IBM Keyboards by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 19:01 · Score: 0

I highly recommend that you buy one if you see it priced under $100. They are uncommon, and last a lifetime.
What?! You can get the Model Ms on eBay for like $15 regularly.
Re:Where to buy old Style IBM Keyboards by DebianDog · 2003-01-02 04:35 · Score: 1

Yep I have had the same IBM "click" keyboard for years and I have a spare sitting there.

I would feel lost without it.
Re:Where to buy old Style IBM Keyboards by Iffy+Bonzoolie · 2003-01-02 05:31 · Score: 1

They have another keyboard (UNICOMP) which is basically the same as a Model M, but they are built new, and come (optionally) with PS2 connectors. No USB, unfortunately. They were $45 each, so I bought three, and I haven't had any problems with any of them...

-If

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Run a pencil-and-paper RPG campaign with your far-off friends: Gametable!

very good by beaverfever · 2003-01-01 11:31 · Score: 0, Offtopic

what more can I say than 'Bravo Sir!'

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RTFM; please, I beg you.

ah, good keyboards in the days of old by transami · 2003-01-01 11:31 · Score: 1

if anyone ever manufactures these i'll buy one. love those old keyboards!

of course i'd be happy with an old wyse terminal keyboard too. those things were the bomb.

they sure don't make em like they used to. even the best keyboards i can find plae in compare.

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:T:R:A:N:S:

Gee. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:31 · Score: 0

For Christmas, I converted a mechanical typewriter to work as a computer keyboard.

Gee and all I did for Christmas was have a house full of friends and strangers over for a party that lasted till New Years morning.

Typewriter, eh? by netsharc · 2003-01-01 11:32 · Score: 5, Funny

Looks like the monkey that has to type out your webserver content everytime someone makes a http request is going to die of overwork soon. :)

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What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!

One problem i can see right off the bat.. by TheHawke · 2003-01-01 11:32 · Score: 4, Interesting

She's stuck using the margins that are available to them on the manual typewriter... You see, shes sitting there rattling away and then, DING! end of margin. No word wrap, no automatic carriage return. She has to hit the manual return level to move the unit back to its original position, thus issuing a CR to the program.
The other issue is ZERO arrow keys so if she has to move the cursor to edit or change posistion or shift to another page, she has to fuss around with the mouse, hence more chances for her carpal tunnel to get worse.
He should have butchered the machine up, disabled the automatic advance, got the backspace to work, and then found a way to wire in a 10-key keypad that would have given almost all the functions of a standard 101 KB.

Oh, I can see her now, trying to enter a URL on a browser with it... heheh it'll drive her bonkers...

--
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.

Re:One problem i can see right off the bat.. by breon.halling · 2003-01-01 16:25 · Score: 3, Funny

The other issue is ZERO arrow keys

Just wire up an old rotary phone... =)

--
"Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
Re:One problem i can see right off the bat.. by mkweise · 2003-01-02 21:38 · Score: 1

She has to hit the manual return level to move the unit back to its original position, thus issuing a CR to the program

Not really - at least the mechanical typewriter I had way back when would allow you to keep typing when the carriage was at the right margin. It just wouldn't advance any further, so you'd be overtyping the last letter. That actually happened quite frequently in those days, and didn't necessarily justify typing the whole page all over again.

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Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!

No backspace!? by stevejsmith · 2003-01-01 11:33 · Score: 1

Is it just me, or does the lack of a backspace key sound like a huge inconvenience? I'm sure that he did this just for the "wow" factor (I doubt that his wife will use it often), but it still seems a bit pointless. Surely you can just by a serial to PS/2 connector? I mean, Jesus H Christ, what good is a keyboard if you can't go back? What are you going to use, whiteout!? And what if you want to use a CLI? I don't think that they sell blackotu.

Ah yes, the revered IBM keyboard by kfg · 2003-01-01 11:34 · Score: 3, Interesting

I missed mine. . . until I got one of the new Logitechs. Ok, not the solid 5 pound monster the IBM was, and not quite as "clicky," but it seems to have just the right compromise between click and quiet with absolutely no feeling of "hitting the wall" that the membrane boards give you. I can type like in the "good old days" again.

And I don't have to mess up a perfectly good typewriter to do it. I still love my old Underwood. Leave it alone.

But for God's sake, don't make me have to *type* on it.

KFG

fundamentals of RSI by trance9 · 2003-01-01 11:34 · Score: 5, Informative

This just needs to be said:

1. A new keyboard isn't a good solution to an RSI problem. The only good solution is to type less. Changing your keyboard may "feel" better for awhile because you will be stressing different muscles. But you will still be stressing muscles and unless you make a fundamental change the problem will come back again.

2. Posture matters more than anything else. Perhaps with "more resistence" you are forced into a better posture. A good typing posture leaves your arms free so that all of the muscles through your arms, shoulders, and even back can come into play while you type. By distributing the work throughout as many different muscle groups as you can you eliminate the stress on each muscle.

3. You stress your muscles even when you are not typing, just by sitting in the "typing position" you are creating stress. It takes work to hold your fingers ready over the home row, and if you don't get a break from that, that alone can contribute to your RSI.

I had two rounds with RSI problems and I'll tell you how I solved it--today I'm seemingly healthy again. I tried all kinds of different keyboards, mouses, workstation arrangements, etc., but only the fundamentals worked in the end.

My first round at RSI I won by changing the fundamentals: I drastically cut the amount of time I spend sitting in front of a computer by giving up video games completely. Nothing else worked, but cutting the time I spent in front of a computer in half made a difference.

My second round with RSI was more difficult to beat, I had to change my attitude. First I took a two month hiatus from touching computers--I was consulting, so I simply stopped consulting for awhile until I felt normal again. When I returned I tried to make some changes, like altering my keyboard, and I failed. Back to another two month break. In the end I had to learn to get up and leave my workstation every so often--anywhere from 15 minutes to 30min, and just go for a little walk around the office. I also had to learn that no matter how pressing my deadlines were, if I didn't feel right, it was time to go home.

It took me a LONG time to change my work attitudes, so that I no longer sat in front of a computer for too many hours, or worked too much in a day. I learned to think while walking around the room rather than sitting at my desk, I learned to take more breaks, and these are FUNDAMENTAL things that matter--changing your keyboard is a minor factor at best.

Before I recovered I'd lost a total of five months to long breaks required to get me back to a healthy state. I was paranoid about it, I stopped on pain and took long breaks--many people feel work pressure and try to find ways to work through the pain, I just gave it up. I figured that although I suffered financially at the time (and still feel some effects of that) it was more important to me to have a long and full career in the future.

I've had things pretty well under control for the past five years now, but it takes dedication and paranoia and you have to grow a pretty serious attitude about it.

I think people who feel they can "fix it" by changing keyboards or rearranging their workstation are only prolonging their suffering.

Re:fundamentals of RSI by RayChuang · 2003-01-01 11:48 · Score: 2

I think besides the obvious attention to proper posture (which is about 75-80% of solving the stress injury problem, in my personal opinion), get a keyboard that doesn't force you to turn your wrists at a side angle when you type.

That's why I have a Microsoft Natural Elite Keyboard--because you type on this keyboard with the wrists not scrunched at an angle, I can type for much longer than with a regular keyboard. Mind you, some people need other types of ergonomic keyboards, so the MS Natural may not be suitable for everyone.

--
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Re:fundamentals of RSI by JaredOfEuropa · 2003-01-01 12:02 · Score: 2

Hmm I can't fully agree with you there. What works for one person may not be good for another. There are many kinds of RSI and some people are more susceptable to it than others. If you get RSI easily, then switching to a different keyboard, mousing with your other hand, and adjusting your posture will only postpone the problem. But an average user may well find that by changing his posture and input devices helps, so that the early RSI symptons will gradually disappear over time.

For someone who has progressed further into RSI, feeling not just "a funny feeling", but distinct discomfort and even pain, there is no substitute for stopping work completely. You did the right thing by giving up work completely and getting better. Switching to another input device such a a special keyboard, trackball or pen device, can be beneficial, but I would advice it only to people with early symptons of RSI, or people that have recovered from it.

I solidly endorse your last advice: if you have progressed to the stage where you are suffering, then down tools!.

--
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Re:fundamentals of RSI by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 12:50 · Score: 0

you just changed my life
Re:fundamentals of RSI by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 13:10 · Score: 0

get a keyboard that doesn't force you to turn your wrists at a side angle when you type. I just checked and I don't turn my wrist at an angle when I type on a normal keyboard. Maybe it's just that my fingers long enough that I can keep my wrist straight and still type.
Re:fundamentals of RSI by jcsehak · 2003-01-01 13:57 · Score: 5, Informative

Very informative; thanks. Let me add to it:

If your problem is not with the keyboard, but with the mouse, an easy solution that cuts your pain in half is to simply learn to mouse with your off-hand. It's so obvious, it's easy to overlook. That way, when one starts to hurt, just switch over. Of course, this is irrelevant to typists.

Also, guitarists have had this problem sinch before keyboards were invented. Stretches for the guitarist are equally useful to the computer scientist.

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c-hack.com |
Re:fundamentals of RSI by r55man · 2003-01-01 14:29 · Score: 1

I think people who feel they can "fix it" by changing keyboards or rearranging their workstation are only prolonging their suffering.

This is not true. I use to get incapacitating pain in my forearms and shoulders from typing for hours at a time, day after day, but I really did find a solution. I wrote about this previously.

It really does work. I just finished over a week of constant coding, like from the time I got up until the time I went to bed, and only at the very end was I starting to feel anything at all. And it was just a slight pain when I reached for certain keys.

Keyboard remapping is important to. You never want to be reaching for the backspace or arrow keys. Eliminate as much wrist movement as possible, and that includes reaching for the mouse.

Strengthing the wrists with push-ups, as someone else recommended, might do some good, but taking all the stress off the arms in the first place is how you attack this problem at the root.
Re:fundamentals of RSI by MuValas · 2003-01-01 16:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

I have the worst posture, and do everything "wrong" when it comes to RSI, and have almost never suffered from it. The only time I did is when I decided it would be a good idea to try assuming a "correct" posture. My wrist and hands started hurting within a week.

I'm constantly shifting around in my seat, changing postures, and therefore the angles of my hands/wrists. The big thing for me is that if it starts hurting, or feeling uncomfortable, shift around until I find the pressure is relieved. If nothing's working, take a break and stretch out my wrists, arms, and fingers. Half the RSI sufferers I know seem to get into this masochistic mode where they just keep typing away even when things start hurting.

C'mon people, if it hurts try doing something a little different. Don't just rigidly sit in the same posture trying to work through it. Move around a little!
Re:fundamentals of RSI by Blackhalo · 2003-01-01 16:18 · Score: 2, Funny

I get a lot of practice mousing with my off hand. Mostly becase my main hand is still busy.

--
"There is nothing to do it. But to do it." -Floyd Pepper
Re:fundamentals of RSI by persaud · 2003-01-01 18:13 · Score: 1

You can also use software to reduce the need to click the mouse.
This is a bit like mouse gestures for web browsing, without the clicking.
Re:fundamentals of RSI by jcsehak · 2003-01-01 18:47 · Score: 2

Interesting. But for me, most of the stress was from dragging stuff all around in Photoshop and Illustrator, and positioning it in exactly the right spot. Interestingly, sometimes I'd get a sore wrist and take a break and play some Quake. It actually made my wrist feel a little better! I'm guessing the quick movements + no dragging were helpful somehow.

--

c-hack.com |
Re:fundamentals of RSI by persaud · 2003-01-01 19:03 · Score: 1

Have you tried MS Intellipoint? Ships with their mouse/trackball products, but it works with any mouse (or at least it used to). It has a feature called ClickLock: if you hold the mouse button down longer than an adjustable period, it 'locks' the button down. Move the object, then click once to release the drag. Also good for scrolling a long document. I can't work without it, even use it on a laptop.
Re:fundamentals of RSI by nathanroberts · 2003-01-01 23:33 · Score: 1

If your problem is not with the keyboard, but with the mouse, an easy solution that cuts your pain in half is to simply learn to mouse with your off-hand.

/me seconds this.
I was getting horrendous pain in my right wrist. It took a while before it dawned on me that the pain was happening when I was using the mouse. Once the pain started, as soon as I tried to move the mouse it got dramatically worse. When I let go it got better.
Finally I decided to just move the mouse over to the other side of the keyboard and begin the long, slow, painful process of learning to use the mouse with my left hand.
It turned out to be worthwhile. Now, after several years of using the mouse exclusively left-handed, I can operate it right-handed for a while without pain. It's not fully 'healed' yet (and I don't know if it ever will be) but it's improved dramatically.
Interestingly, typing doesn't seem to bother me at all. It may be my non-standard typing position, or maybe the fact that I simply don't type constantly for hours on end. I'm at the computer all day, but don't spend all that time typing.
Re:fundamentals of RSI by Grizzlysmit · 2003-01-02 01:16 · Score: 1

Also you need to whatch things like the height of your desktop (the surface the keyboard and mouse sit on), if it is even a cm to high or low for you, you will have problems (pain in wrists, arms, sholders), having somewhere comfortable to rest them when you think is good too, or go for a (walk, cuppa, whatever) whilst thinking. If your thinking what to type next you don't need to have, your hands at the ready, if it's a long think you don't need to be at the keyboard at all.

--
in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that :-D
Francis Smit
Re:fundamentals of RSI by MrMickS · 2003-01-02 01:59 · Score: 1

I think people who feel they can "fix it" by changing keyboards or rearranging their workstation are only prolonging their suffering
In the mid-nineties I started a new freelance contract and was given a Mac with an Apple Design Keyboard connected to it. This was a membrane style keyboard with high key resistance, similar to many in use today. After working there for a couple of weeks I noticed problems with pain and stiffness in my fingers and wrists. I replaced the keyboard with an Apple Adjustable Keyboard, which had individual switches for the keys and could be adjusted for angle. After a week of using this keyboard all of my pain had gone away.
I still suffer these days when given a keyboard with a similar action and try to use either my laptop, strangely I don't suffer using this, or my own keyboard.
I didn't consult any medical advice over this period, so couldn't say absolutely that this was RSI but the pain was caused by my typing and did go when I changed keyboards.

--
You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.

Shades of Max Headroom by scharkalvin · 2003-01-01 11:35 · Score: 2

I've seen this before. The computers on 'Max Headroom' had
old Underwood keyboards (and the cars were all Studerbakers).

The human side of it by andyring · 2003-01-01 11:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

All technobabble and RSI talk aside, everyone seems to have overlooked a big part of this. Be honest, people. How many of you would be willing to put this much time and effort into a project simply for the purpose of making your wife/husband/boy/girlfriend happy? I read the article (yes, I'm actually a /.er who reads the articles, a shock I know) and while I found it interesting and intuitive, the thought at the back of my mind was, "Dang, this guy must really love his wife to undertake a project like this just for her."

Way to go, sir! You sound like a great husband, a guy your wife was lucky to snag!

Re:The human side of it by tnak · 2003-01-01 14:12 · Score: 0, Troll

I was thinking the same thing. Then I realized that the time spent doing this, since it was a surprise gift was, by definition, time away from her. That's when it hit me: he really can't stand her. He just needed something complicated enough to explain away all the time he spends in the basement watching football and drinking beer.
Re:The human side of it by mtngrown · 2003-01-01 17:17 · Score: 0, Offtopic

I can assure that it helps to have a wife that would appreciate such effort.

Mirror by vidnet · 2003-01-01 11:37 · Score: 5, Informative

It seemed a little sluggish, so here's a mirror. Be gentle with it.

Re:Mirror by Rayonic · 2003-01-01 13:16 · Score: 2

It seemed a little sluggish, so here's a mirror [vidarholen.net]. Be gentle with it.

So if we break the mirror... will that mean seven years bad karma?

--
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation

Doh! by MeanMF · 2003-01-01 11:37 · Score: 1

My only real regret on this project is that I never found a way to make the Backspace key work, since the mechanism that controls it is deep inside the typewriter, far to deep to get to without risking disaster.

I guess youud'd haveto be a verryu good typistr to use ti!

I know exactly what she means... by Gregg+Alan · 2003-01-01 11:40 · Score: 2, Funny

I feel the same way about falling from very tall objects (e.g., skyscrapers). I would prefer gradual resistance with little or no 'hitting a wall' effect at the end. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that...in fact, often the weak resistance offered by air is nullified by a strong downdraft.

--
Here before all but 8486 of you.

Re:Two words... by colinleroy · 2003-01-01 11:41 · Score: 1

I would swap the good old Cherry keyboard I use since 10 years with any modern keyboards :)
This keyboard is really comfortable to type with - and doesn't move when you type, contrary to modern full-plastic ones.

--
blah

Or learn to use the force... by markov_chain · 2003-01-01 11:42 · Score: 1

...and press no keys at all!

--
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!

Re:Or learn to use the force... by Tablizer · 2003-01-01 11:51 · Score: 1

Or learn to use The Force...and press no keys at all!

I tried that, but the Dark Side kept insurting spailing errers.

--
Table-ized A.I.

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 11:46 · Score: 0

I don't understand these pissy types always posting Anonymous Coward. If you have an opinion stand up. Or, go back to your Playdoh.

Er, how exactly is "spazoid12" more identifying than the average AC? When you start posting with your real name, then you can start criticizing. Until then, you're just as anonymous and just as cowardly.

material supply by beaverfever · 2003-01-01 11:46 · Score: 1

a rather interesting bit of material: copper lamé with an electrically conductive adhesive on the back

I mention this in case anyone would like to pursue a similar project but isn't able to come up with the exotic materials:

I don't know about the properties of the adhesive or the quality of the copper itself, but in stained glass assembly a copper foil tape with adhesive backing is used so that the pieces of glass can be soldered together. It's easy to find and affordable too, although perhaps not as sexy as that used in the original.

--
RTFM; please, I beg you.

What about the 1 key? by /dev/kev · 2003-01-01 11:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

More importantly, he seems to have forgotten about the "1" key. Many old typewriters, including the one he appears to have used, lack a "1" key. Typists would simply use a lowercase "l" (ell) key in lieu of 1 - you can probably still see this on very old documents if you look hard enough. The missing key made the typewriter mechanism (marginally) simpler, and helped to make them cheaper. I'm very curious as to how his wife types a one character, but there's no mention of that on the site.

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

Re:What about the 1 key? by Stormie · 2003-01-01 12:20 · Score: 3, Funny

Typists would simply use a lowercase "l" (ell) key in lieu of 1 - you can probably still see this on very old documents if you look hard enough.

Or, of course, in any Jon Katz article.
Re:What about the 1 key? by MegaHamsterX · 2003-01-01 12:47 · Score: 1

It's not in the picture, but to the right of the keyboard is an old mechanical calculator, you know they type you need to pull the handle on after inputting your numbers.
Re:What about the 1 key? by prockcore · 2003-01-01 19:28 · Score: 3, Informative

http://www.multipledigression.com/typewriter/pics/ pages/type10.htm

Yup. looking at that picture, there's definately no '1' key.
Re:What about the 1 key? by SN74S181 · 2003-01-01 19:57 · Score: 1

At a previous job I always took great delight in entering my hours on the Excel spreadsheet I was given by using small L for the one numeral and capital O for the zero.
Re:What about the 1 key? by 1u3hr · 2003-01-01 22:06 · Score: 2

Typists would simply use a lowercase "l" (ell) key in lieu of 1 - you can probably still see this on very old documents if you look hard enough.
Or, of course, in any Jon Katz article.
Not just old documents -- anyone who learnt typing on a typewriter is prone to do this. I just read Thomas Harris' Hannibal, he did it a dozen times in that. I notice things like that having laid out a few books -- a little sad that a book with 20 printings still has typos. Editors today...
Re:What about the 1 key? by kzinti · 2003-01-02 01:55 · Score: 2

More importantly, he seems to have forgotten about the "1" key. Many old typewriters, including the one he appears to have used, lack a "1" key. Typists would simply use a lowercase "l" (ell) key in lieu of 1 - you can probably still see this on very old documents if you look hard enough.

...or in some modern "documents". A friend of mine who e-mails me regularly learned to type on one of those old keyboards and has never learned how to use the "1" key. She regularly types things like "...this was back in l996..."

--Jim
Re:What about the 1 key? by david+duncan+scott · 2003-01-02 04:18 · Score: 2

That may explain why it's your previous job.

--
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
Re:What about the 1 key? by SN74S181 · 2003-01-02 07:00 · Score: 1

No, actually when I quit that job to move across country and marry someone, they were sorry to see me go, and my boss's boss even gave me a 'sending off' bonus at my going away party.
Re:What about the 1 key? by david+duncan+scott · 2003-01-04 11:59 · Score: 2

Was the bonus $lOOO? :)

--
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander

That's not what he meant. by Dthoma · 2003-01-01 11:50 · Score: 2

He was asking whether or not the keyboard itself could run Linux all by itself, not whether or not it would work with Linux.

Since people have managed to get Linux to run on things like XBoxes, toasters and Game Boy Advances, then it wouldn't surprise me if somebody managed to get Linux running on a typewriter-cum-keyboard.

;-)

--

Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".

Check this out by DrunkenPenguin · 2003-01-01 11:54 · Score: 3, Interesting

You'd think that there'd be LESS stress with an elecronic keyboard than a mechanical one.

Yeah, I think so too, but what do you guys think about this computer chair?
---

Re:Check this out by FleshWound · 2003-01-01 15:54 · Score: 2

what do you guys think about this computer chair?
I think the mouse is on the wrong side. ;)

sitting in front of one... by zogger · 2003-01-01 12:06 · Score: 1

...sitting in front of one right now, an ibm model m. Turning it over, it says manufactured by lexmark. Nice and solid and noisy. Got them spring action goin' on doncha know. I see already there's several sources listed so good luckski! Got mine last summer at a local whiteshop, they used to let me poke through their old junk and buy hardware cheap. Got this one and a STACK of brand new old mac adb keyboards for 5$ apiece, all new in the box.

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 12:07 · Score: 0

Exactly.

Although I could see this guy legally changing his name to "spazoid12".

IBM DEALER ADDRESS by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 12:08 · Score: 0

I have one of those keyboards and I still use it. Odd enough mine *has* a PS/2 connector. I've had since I was two .. since 1987 that is.

I emailed to IBM recently asking whether they still made these keyboards .. well they don't, but they gave me the address of a (belgian) dealer that still sells them:

PC Osiris
Rue De Schildknecht 33
1020 BRUXELLES
Phone : 02/420.91.11
Fax : 02/420.91.08
e-mail:osiris.brokers@euronet.be

if we're going analog by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 12:17 · Score: 0

how much to get my atari 2600 joystick to work as a mouse?

Re:if we're going analog by MegaHamsterX · 2003-01-01 12:42 · Score: 1

You'd be a po boy using a C-64 and Geos.

I did that for about a week before buying the 1351 mouse for the C-64, oh and the 1764 REU too.
Re:if we're going analog by ChaoticLimbs · 2003-01-01 14:27 · Score: 1

I used my atari joystick in GEOS with no problems on my C=64. Of course, it's difficult. I don't miss my Commodore. At all. Never. Okay, maybe once or twice when I want to play a good game.

Brazil by Zaiff+Urgulbunger · 2003-01-01 12:18 · Score: 2, Funny

This is old hat - in the future, everyone will be using typewritter keyboards.... I'm assuming that everyone here has seen the film Brazil (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0088846) yes?

And I'll bet the best thing is having a "shift lock", which is a fantastic time-saving feature that seems to have disappeared from modern keyboards allowing you to enter all the shift symbols on the number keys without needing to hold down shift. Its great!

Re:Brazil (fixed IMDB link) by Zaiff+Urgulbunger · 2003-01-01 12:20 · Score: 1

Sorry - the link again in click-o-matic form: Brazil

I promise to always use preview in the future - except when using a mechanical typewritter!

sounds like... by tetro · 2003-01-01 12:20 · Score: 1

whoopish! (sound of a crackling whip) hehe...that's a cool gift for a wife. Maybe you should try to convert her hair dryer to a cell phone. That'll be cool

--
.smell my feet.

if we're going analog by aexiphixion · 2003-01-01 12:21 · Score: 1

how much to convert my atari 2600 joystick to a mouse?

nice mod by zogger · 2003-01-01 12:21 · Score: 1

--nice mod! retro-practical! hey, liked the halloween pics too, "casseroles" heh heh heh

Re:Max Headroom anyone? - MODERATOR ERROR by AtariDatacenter · 2003-01-01 12:23 · Score: 1

Looks like someone modded you down with a -1, Off Topic. Looks like a few people might not understand the reference, so this may help.

In Max Headroom, for data entry, most people used a typewriter style keyboard. By "typewriter", I mean the very long strokes for a keypress. (Elevated keys hooked into levers, that presumably, go off into individual switches.) As opposed to our very short-stroke electro-mechanical switches, or other technology such as a membrane keyboard like a fast food place may have.

No, it didn't actually have a print head (vector display, instead), and no, there wasn't a bar to slap to move the carriage back for a carriage return.

Of course, neither the vector display, nor the manual typewriter style keyboards were very good predictors of the future. But they look cool, despite being so retro.

Where's the "1" key by Jeremy+Erwin · 2003-01-01 12:30 · Score: 1

On this typewriter, as with most manual typewriters, the numeric keys begin at "2".

Re:Where's the "1" key by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 14:05 · Score: 0

To the old keyboards without "1", "L".toLowerCase() == 1

(OT) SMSU by joshki · 2003-01-01 12:35 · Score: 2

You recall correctly -- they had eight PS/2's in the back corner of the Computer Science Lab. I don't know when they got rid of them -- when I left in 1991 they still had them. I learned Pascal on those computers... and got my first taste of Novell networks...

--
I do not read or respond to AC's. If you want a discussion, log in. Otherwise, don't waste your time.

Re:(OT) SMSU by Robotech_Master · 2003-01-01 12:49 · Score: 2

When I got to SMSU in '91, half of Cheek Lab was those PS/2s. I think there were 32 of them. The rest was the amber terminals by which we students accessed our accounts on the CMS box.

--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Re:(OT) SMSU by joshki · 2003-01-01 13:43 · Score: 2

Sounds about right -- they had VT100's (the real ones) in half the lab when I was there(to access the Vax 11/70 that I heard was removed right after I left), four tables of amber terminals that you could access several different systems on, and four tables of PS/2's that were on a Novell network. I learned Fortran on that vax from Dr. Schmidt -- still the best professor I've ever had.

--
I do not read or respond to AC's. If you want a discussion, log in. Otherwise, don't waste your time.

Not that it helps by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 12:37 · Score: 0

But generally repetitive stress injuries are psychosomatic. Same as back pain. Its in your head.

That doesn't mean it really doesn't hurt, its just that its psychological rather than physical.

This information doesn't help you or your wife. Since it still hurts.

But it should piss you off a little about her whining.

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by Threni · 2003-01-01 12:42 · Score: 1

Not really. Is `Elton John` anonymous, just because it's not the name he was born with?

And for the tablet PC... by Alien+Being · 2003-01-01 12:48 · Score: 5, Funny

a hammer and chisel!

Nice idea but.. by grub · 2003-01-01 12:50 · Score: 1

.. it'd be a bitch to play Unreal Tournament on.

--
Trolling is a art,

CRLF by benja · 2003-01-01 12:52 · Score: 1

You're a Mac person, right? You're excused, but for the next time, please remember that in *real* operating systems, "Enter" (newline) is *not* a carriage return, but a linefeed! ;-)

Re:CRLF by Black+Copter+Control · 2003-01-01 23:12 · Score: 2

please remember that in *real* operating systems, "Enter" (newline) is *not* a carriage return, but a linefeed! ;-)
I Don't know what operating system you consider 'real', but for most systems, the 'enter' key usually sends a newline (ctrl-M). That is then converted to a newline for Unix internals, or a CR/LF pair for Dos (or printing on linux).
Even today, a control-M on most Unix/Linux terminal windows will give you the same result as hitting the 'enter' key.

--
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.

That was Brazil by Confused · 2003-01-01 12:55 · Score: 2

Those Underwood keyboards appeared in Terry Gilliam's movie Brazil.

I don't think they appeared in the Max Headroom series too.

Re:That was Brazil by bedessen · 2003-01-01 13:34 · Score: 2

In fact, a couple of months ago there was a link that made its way through the blogs about a site where someone had made a recreation of the Brazil-style terminal, with a typewriter keyboard and fresnel lense. I think it used a working Mac SE as the guts -- very retro. The link is here, but it's coming up 503 at the moment. [Google cache, no images] Hopefully it's only down temporarily.
Re:That was Brazil by Black+Copter+Control · 2003-01-01 22:47 · Score: 1

I just checked, and the link is working fine, right now.

--
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.

CITE SOURCES! BLAH BLAH! by Regul8or · 2003-01-01 13:02 · Score: 1

I don't mean to single you out but why does everyone always want sources cited?

Re:CITE SOURCES! BLAH BLAH! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 13:18 · Score: 0

because they're the basis of any reasonable argument...
Re:CITE SOURCES! BLAH BLAH! by JebusIsLord · 2003-01-01 16:07 · Score: 2

Oh I don't know, maybe so people don't make shit up? Seriously, saying things without backing authority is how disinformation is spread. Do you believe everything people tell you, even if they can't back it up?

--
Jeremy
Re:CITE SOURCES! BLAH BLAH! by Regul8or · 2003-01-01 18:01 · Score: 1

Yeah, but this is /. I know what cited sources are but asking for it is a bit much. If you're wondering about the validity of some information go research it yourself.
Re:CITE SOURCES! BLAH BLAH! by oliverthered · 2003-01-02 05:11 · Score: 1

because there toooooooooooo lazy to look for themselfs.

I can probably give you sources to prove more-or-less anything.
I nice deep link into a CS site, or a bit of monsanto propaganda and you can prove that the world is flat.

--
thank God the internet isn't a human right.

First the typewriter, and now by euxneks · 2003-01-01 13:04 · Score: 1

How about modding a radio into a monitor?!

--
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

Re:First the typewriter, and now by Jeffv323 · 2003-01-01 22:19 · Score: 1

How about a monitor into a radio station? --Jeff

--
I'm a minister!

Carriage Return mechanically stops typing... by 955301 · 2003-01-01 13:08 · Score: 1

I wonder how he dealt with the carraige return being too far and stopping the typing. Each key you press shifts the carraige over. After a certain point, the bell goes off and you can only type a few more characters before it stops you cold. So does his wife have to send email/write letters with forced 80 column width?

I actually bought a typewriter like this to do the same mod, so I could bring it to work at a client's office and drive them nuts. But I didn't feel like messing with the carraige problem. What can I say, I'm an electrical engineer, not mechanical. ;)

--
You are checking your backups, aren't you?

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 13:13 · Score: 0

Are you nuts enough to think that a significant number of people know/care who spaz-whatever is?

No Backspace? Humbug. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 13:14 · Score: 0

I read the article, he doesn't actually say he has equipped his opus without backspace functionality; but rather that *the* Smith Corona backspace key is not the way he wires it. IMHO, either he (1) figured out another key to use as the backspace or (2) secretely, as one /.er suggested, wants to drive her crazy or do her in.

My question: Where are the function keys?

Because Linux rocks by A+nonymous+Coward · 2003-01-01 13:23 · Score: 2

and rockers jam.

--
Infuriate left and right

The ElectriClerk by B3Geek · 2003-01-01 13:27 · Score: 1

Inspired by the movie Brazil, this one, which includes a number pad with trackball, is built using a 1923 Underwood and a 1988 Macintosh SE. Very retro.

doing push-ups to avoid RSI by solferino · 2003-01-01 13:30 · Score: 2

caveat : this is only a theory, however it seems to work for me

ok, the theory is that the combination of weak wrists + lots of typing can lead to rsi

if you want to keep using a computer, then the option that remains is to build up the strength of yr wrists

a good way to do that is by doing pushups

it is not however necessary to do them in a macho fashion - i.e. do as many as you can, as quickly as you can, in a row - if you try to do this you will exhaust yrself and be unable to and disinterested in doing them regularly

building yr wrist strength by doing pushups is most effective if you do them slowly and do small sets i.e do 2 slow pushups, rest, 2 more slow ones, rest, 2 more

even doing 6 pushups like this (3 sets of 2) will build up yr wrist and arm strength - find a combination that works well for you without too much strain

i do 2 sets of 7 pushups most every day and never feel twinges in my wrists any more - i am capable of doing 4, 6 or 8 sets but i find it unnecessary to do that many - 14 pushups in 2 sets of 7 is quite sufficient - but if you have trouble doing this many start with less

use hatha-yoga style breathing and breathe in while pushing up and breathe out while (slowly) coming down - it helps to focus on yr solar plexus (stomach area) and visualise this area as powering you up

side-effect warning - this will also build up yr upper arms and chest muscles - however you may consider this a feature and not a bug

Re:doing push-ups to avoid RSI by markov_chain · 2003-01-01 14:01 · Score: 1

Heh, this can only come from the mouth of a fellow computer geek:

(describing pushups): side-effect warning - this will also build up your upper arms and chest muscles

More seriously, I don't find pushups do much for my wrists or forearms-- just for the chest and triceps. Those hand-squeezer spring loaded things work great for building forearms, though.

--

--
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
Re:doing push-ups to avoid RSI by jtharpla · 2003-01-01 20:06 · Score: 1

My experience is the opposite...doing push-ups with weak wrists led to carpel tunnel like symptoms. Now I always do push-ups with closed fists instead of the traditional palms down method. Doing this, and making sure my wrists are braced when lifting weights seemed to fix most of my issues. Also be sure to have good wrist rests for keyboard and mouse.
Re:doing push-ups to avoid RSI by JMan1 · 2003-01-02 09:28 · Score: 1

I think I may have caused (or contributed to) my RSI problems by doing push-ups and the like without exercising the opposite back muscles. It tends to make your chest tighter, compressing nerves and blood vessels.

Not a sermon, just a thought.

IBM Selectric typewriter by Cidtek · 2003-01-01 13:35 · Score: 1

Would have been perfect for this conversion. It was used by console operators running mainframes and as a terminal input device. They used a spinning typeball to impact the paper.

wow! by schnits0r · 2003-01-01 13:36 · Score: 1

What next? A robotic pharmisist?

--

-------
Support Indy Music. Buy

switching to Kinesis keyboard IS a good solution by shadowhillway · 2003-01-01 13:40 · Score: 2, Insightful

Some years ago when I was in high school, I suffered a complete meltdown with my wrists. Since then, I have learned about the Dvorak layout and the Kinesis Contoured keyboard. Both have made a tremendous difference for me.

Quite simply, flat keyboards and the qwerty layout suck. Posture is not going to make much difference when the hands are doing so much extra work on keyboards which are not designed for the human hand and with an inefficient key layout.

The Kinesis Contoured keyboard is designed for the proportions of human fingers, and also takes advantage of the thumbs.

Naturally, if someone is in serious pain from typing, then he should stop everything immediately. After recovery is the time to think about switching to a better keyboard and better layout.

My ergonomic typing story is detailed on my Explorations in Ergonomic Typing page.

Music to type by by Black+Rabbit · 2003-01-01 13:44 · Score: 2, Interesting

When I read the article, for some strange reason I found that a certain tune was running through my head. Anybody remember the little instrumental that played 8 bars with the typewriter going in the background in time to the music, then the line would end, the bell would ring and then the unmistakeable, (to those of us beyond a certain age), sound of a carriage return, then on to the next 8 bars. Haven't a clue what it's called, but it's going to be running through my head for the rest of the evening now.

Re:Music to type by by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 14:31 · Score: 0

It's called, simply, "The Typewriter" I believe. Or at least, that's the only name I've seen for it.
Re:Music to type by by neildogg · 2003-01-01 15:07 · Score: 2

The theme song for "Are You Being Served" ;)

Seriously
Re:Music to type by by Thyrsus · 2003-01-01 16:22 · Score: 1

You're probably thinking of Leroy Anderson's "The Typewriter".
Re:Music to type by by stereoroid · 2003-01-01 20:25 · Score: 2

Yes, it's "The Typewriter", by Leroy Anderson. There's a streaming version to listen to here. I wish I hadn't, now it's stuck in my head, and removing it will take something industrial-strength...

--
(this is not a .sig)
Re:Music to type by by Black+Rabbit · 2003-01-02 15:09 · Score: 1

>> The theme song for "Are You Being Served" ;)

Nope. Can't be. There's nobody calling out what's on each floor as the musical elevator stops. It sounds similar, I'll give you that, but definitely not one and the same.
Re:Music to type by by Black+Rabbit · 2003-01-02 15:13 · Score: 1

Yep...that would be the one! Our story poster should have this as his Start Windoze .wav instead of that ghastly "Microsoft Sound" thing.

>> Oi! Slashdotters! the USA is not the World, right?

No...they just think it is. They have a lot to learn.
Re:Music to type by by neildogg · 2003-01-02 16:20 · Score: 2

I meant the music, not the voices associated with it.

sources for copper tape by Tekmage · 2003-01-01 13:45 · Score: 3, Informative

Once upon a time, a long time ago, I did some stained-glass creative stuff at school... To solder the panes together, you had to wrap the edges of the pieces of glass with strips of sticky copper tape. From the description of the lame tape (so thin that it burns/melts really easily), the stained-glass stuff may be a better (future) option.

A search for "stained glass copper tape" on Google turns up a few sources.

--
--The more you know, the less you know.

I thought I'd never see one of those again by chris_sawtell · 2003-01-01 13:49 · Score: 2

I learnt to type on one of those. Really.
Ooh! the nostalgia.

Oh, I want one. by nigelc · 2003-01-01 14:02 · Score: 1

I've spent most of the day playing Fallout (why not, it's raining, I like the game...) and I love the retro-tech look of it all. I've been noodling around with the thought of finding some sort of computer interface device (terminal, full-fledged case mod) based on a typewriter with a small LCD or CRT screen above it, with lots of 1950's looking metal.

So where can I get one?

--

Cthulhu Barata Nikto

Re:Oh, I want one. by instarx · 2003-01-02 00:47 · Score: 1

During the very last days of the electric typewriters, when electronics were being introduced there were some hybrids produced by IBM. They were Selectric-based and had a small LCD panel right above the keyboard. These typers were so expensive few companies bought them, but instead leased them from IBM (so turned them back in eventually). You may be able to find one, but they were finnicky to work on and will be a bear to keep going and modify.
A better bet might be an earlier version called a MagCard or MagTape typewriter. These recorded keystrokes on a magnetic card the same size and shape of a keypunch card (if you don't know what a keypunch card is I can't help you), or a looped magnetic tape that allowed forms to be typed over and over again. Pretty cool for the time. Again it is Selectric-based. No heavy metal 50's look for either of these, but plenty old-looking these days. These were desktop machines, and the cases are bigger than the standard typewriters, so if you judiciously remove some unneeded parts there may be just enough room to fit an entire computer in there! Hmmmm... could be an interesting little useless project.

CTRL-ALT-DEL ? by sapped · 2003-01-01 14:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

I dunno about you, but I don't envy her trying to CTRL-ALT-DEL her way out of a lockup.

Fyi by jsse · 2003-01-01 14:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

she finds old-fashioned mechanical typewriters much easier on her fingers because they offer gradual resistance rather than the feeling of moving through air then hitting a wall

It's true that mechanical one has better feedback than those you find in computers, but don't ignore the extra straint that would be exerted after prolong use.

Your wife need a better keyboard. Some serious manufactured computer keyboards offer proper resistance and a 'click' feedback before you hit the button so that after some use your fingers can change key when feeling the 'click'. All old keyboards you found in IBM terminals offer such mechanism. Very old Acer keyboard, like one I'm using, has similar design. They are much better than mechanical one, as they've less resistance and no chance of jamming.

However, in order to lower cost, most newer keyboard behave just as you described. Not even Microsoft's Natural keyboard could offer the same feeling as in terminal keyboards.

But Of Course... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 14:17 · Score: 0

Who`d have thought - a fake solution for a fake illness !!!

Re:But Of Course... by kobotronic · 2003-01-01 14:48 · Score: 1

Fake illness? RSI "all in your head" ? I never heard such a claim outside the realm of righty AM talk radio...

Big mistake by BrookHarty · 2003-01-01 14:21 · Score: 5, Funny

Anyone notice he took a photo of his checkbook on his photos?

http://www.multipledigression.com/typewriter/pics/ pages/type07.htm

Opps.

Re:Big mistake by (H)elix1 · 2003-01-01 14:49 · Score: 3, Funny

Anyone notice he took a photo of his checkbook on his photos?

Notice they are just deposit slips... no check blanks? Must be married

(/me ducking bride when she sees my post)

--
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Re:Big mistake by Graymalkn · 2003-01-01 18:23 · Score: 2, Informative

Ah, but did you notice that I blurred out all identifying info on the deposit slips? I'm not *that* sloppy!

Erik

--
*******
"What good is science if no one gets hurt?!" - Professor Chromedome
Re:Big mistake by MrMickS · 2003-01-02 01:46 · Score: 1

I thought it was a hint for donations.

--
You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
Re:Big mistake by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 02:40 · Score: 0

You mean this info?

Erik Fitzpatrick
San Francisco, CA 94130
(415) 984-0444

New challenge by geeknik · 2003-01-01 14:53 · Score: 0

How about making a PS/2 conversion of a Stenotype but drop in a PIC like the BS2-IC (if your lame like me) that will convert the shorthand to all the words... using an I-PAC triggered by the BS2 to actually send the data to the keyboard port. Muhaha.. Muhahaha!!!

ELECTRICLERK one-ups this guy by kobotronic · 2003-01-01 15:01 · Score: 2

Very clever, but check this out : ELECTRICLERK is a functional prop obviously inspired by the terminals used in Terry Gilliam's Brazil , - complete with fresnel lens magnifyer and tiny b/w monitor. The guts of the thing is only a dinky old mac, but it's still a cool and flawlessly executed hack. :)

No arrows? Use h,j,k,l by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 15:26 · Score: 0

All that time using vi (or more likely playing nethack) has provided an answer.

The Olivetti keyboard I'm using now set me back $5, and that includes the 386 based PC it was attached to.

Re:Oh.. the pressure! by slasher999 · 2003-01-01 15:31 · Score: 1

That's funny. I'm typing on an old IBM clicker now. Same keyboard I brought home when a prior employer gave me my very own 486/50 to take home about 8 years ago. I snagged four more of these keyboards when IBM stopped shipping them so I'm sure I'll never have to worry about changing keyboards. This one still has my old WordPerfect 6.0 for DOS F-key map taped to it, plus a reminder that to send a 3270 "clear" command in the old Relay Gold package I used for remote mainframe access I had to hit CTRL-HOME.

Retro high tech toy by toybuilder · 2003-01-01 16:01 · Score: 2

Oh, admit it -- your love for your life aside, you're really hoping that the Wachowski brothers will call you to use your typewriter in the Matrix sequels!

Re:Retro high tech toy by NUeB · 2003-01-01 17:09 · Score: 1

Well to me this looks a lot more like from Terry Gilliam's great Brazil - only missing that b/w screen with the oversized lense in front of ...

Kinda OffTopic ... but not really ... by SuperDuG · 2003-01-01 16:02 · Score: 2

Here's FROM THE ARTICLE ...

erik@SPAM-ME-NOT.multipledigression.com (minus the spam filter)

This site continously makes false emails randomly, this is absolutely wonderful and the first time I've ever seen something like this done. Score one for the geek team!!

Would this classify as a "case-mod" ???

--
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed

Re:Kinda OffTopic ... but not really ... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 20:13 · Score: 0

Old concept. Called a teergrube. Sorry to burst a bubble. ;-)

Atari Joystick = very digital by green+pizza · 2003-01-01 16:02 · Score: 2

The joystick for the Atari 2600 is digital, very digital. Very simple design, the circuit board inside has 5 membrane-style contacts... up, down, left, right, fire. I used to rig up old Atari joysticks to my homebrew robots for crude remote control.

Where are the META keys? Alt, CTRL, etc? by borgheron · 2003-01-01 16:14 · Score: 1

Just an observation.. :)

--
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep

IBM Model M's for Sale on Ebay ~$10.00 by deaddeng · 2003-01-01 16:17 · Score: 2

I've always used an IBM Model "M" AT keyboard. It's loud, it uses "buckling-spring" ALPS key switches. It's heavy (about 6 lbs). I am a touch typist, and you can tell that whoever at IBM designed this beast was trying to capture the feel of an IBM Selectric. When you press a key, you know damned well that you did.

About once a year it is rediscovered as the best keyboard in the world by some site on the web. This year it's this one:

http://www.overclockers.com/tips00223/

And it has it's own cult following.

http://www.3m3718.com/modelm.php
http://www.mod elm.org/
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node =IBM%20Mod el%20M%20Keyboard

There is even Model M porn:

http://www.viperlair.com/articles/techreport/inp ut /bsmembrane.shtml
http://www.3m3718.com/mpr0n.php

You can buy a reasonable new facimile made by Unicomp for $49.00,

http://www.pckeyboard.com/

but you can also find perfectly good ones on ebay for a lot less. Just search for the terms: Ibm keyboard click*

Or you can get snooty about it and pay $149 for a 104-key "programable" version.

http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/prime.h tm

I find this board the least fatiguing because the "feel" is so tactile, and I make fewer errors.

--
--- .085 as cool; proving that a little knowledge is dangerous

Re:IBM Model M's for Sale on Ebay ~$10.00 by R2.0 · 2003-01-02 03:15 · Score: 1

"Or you can get snooty about it and pay $149 for a 104-key "programable" version.

http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/prime.h tm "

Quick note - this keyboard is a continuation of the old Northgate Omnikey line. The used ALPS keyswitches and have a slightly lighter feel than the Model M. They are also made of metal and bulletproof.

--
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson

Remember... by 42+(Forty+Two) · 2003-01-01 16:26 · Score: 1

If some crazy fan of yours traps you in a room with one of these, you can use it to escape.
[Misery]

Reminds me of a quote... by cuyler · 2003-01-01 16:27 · Score: 2

"If women don't find you handsome they should a least find you handy"
- Red Green

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by spazoid12 · 2003-01-01 16:31 · Score: 1

You can always tell a good deal about a person that begins his reply with "Er,".

That aside, are you retarded or something? Are you seriously suggesting that people using a nickname are no more identifiable than someone posting AC? That is quite a stupid comment, buddy.

I shouldn't even bother answering you for real, because stupid comments just don't deserve replies. But, there's a chance that you can be educated yet. Suppose you post AC (as you do). Suppose, then, that a hundred others post AC. How can you tell who is who, or even how many whos are posting? Even if you had access to /.'s access logs you'd only have a rough idea. Now, suppose you post with a nick. You have a unique name and password. People can get to know roughly what topics interest you and what you think about them. People can strike up a private conversation with you that can eventually lead to learning one another's names. You can then talk to a real person instead of always calling 1-900-nasty-girls on your boring lonesome evenings.

My gosh.

please mod me up. Renaissance mouse!!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 16:32 · Score: 0

Ill even post anonomously so as to not karma whore.

Renaissance mouse by 3m.
http://www.3m.com/cws/renmouse.html

Everyone i know that has switched to this has had 0 mouse RSI problems. I cant reccommmed this enough. BUy one, try it for 2 weeks to get used to it. THey are fantastic.

Re:please mod me up. Renaissance mouse!!!!!! by wurp · 2003-01-01 17:12 · Score: 2

I own one of these. While it does seem to reduce RSI (it doesn't eliminate it, at least for me) doing fine motions is a real bitch. For large motions, you move your arm around. For fine motions, you have to swivel your hand at the wrist, which means all your fine motions are done in arcs rather than straight lines.

It did get much easier over the course of a few weeks of using it, but it never got as easy as using a regular mouse. I never use my Renaissance mouse any more.

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by spazoid12 · 2003-01-01 16:34 · Score: 1

Sure, and you legally changed yours to "Anonymous Coward".

I like your style by neotericus · 2003-01-01 16:36 · Score: 1

High style points. I am not techie enough to judge what the best solution would be, but I admire the attempt. I do question the conversion of an old style keyboard as being the best solution, although I am inclined to say that it is the most romantic notion I can think of. This is just me, but the introduction of electronic componets into a manual typewriter seems, well, untoward.

interested in sellng it???? by Unknown+Poltroon · 2003-01-01 17:33 · Score: 2

Seriously.
Unknown_poltroon@yahoo.com

--
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-01 17:47 · Score: 0

Are you seriously suggesting that people using a nickname are no more identifiable than someone posting AC? That is quite a stupid comment, buddy.

They are identifiable in the context of Slashdot. But who gives a crap about Slashdot? The point is that you are anonymous in the context of real life, which is what matters when you are criticizing someone for hiding behind anonymity.

People can strike up a private conversation with you that can eventually lead to learning one another's names.

Fine, I can accept that you have a marker on your posts that tie them all to the same person. But let's review what you posted:

"I don't understand these pissy types always posting Anonymous Coward. If you have an opinion stand up. Or, go back to your Playdoh."

The point is that's a pretty strong statement from someone POSTING FREAKING ANONYMOUSLY. I can just as easily turn around that statement to say: "I don't understand these pissy types always posting behind a nickname. If you have an opinion stand up. Or, go back to your Playdoh."

If you so look down on anonymous posting, then stand up and post with your real name.

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by spazoid12 · 2003-01-01 18:06 · Score: 1

"The point is that you are anonymous in the contect of real life"

That is a bunch of crap. You pick the context for the statement that I made?

"POSTING FREAKING ANONYMOUSLY"

Sigh...

a few notes on my typewriter-keyboard conversion by Graymalkn · 2003-01-01 18:21 · Score: 3, Interesting

The biggest thing people seem to have mentioned is the lack of a backspace key. Yes, it is a problem. While reading people's comments on here, I finally had an idea of how to fix it- there are a couple of other keys on the typewriter that aren't being used, like the "1/2 1/4" key. The "backspace" key cap could be moved over to that key , which could then be wired on the underside just like the rest. It would even be closer to where backspace is on a regular keyboard. Thanks for getting me thinking about that.

As for my wife being limited by the regular length of a line, this isn't the case unless she were to try using it as a typewriter at the same time. Otherwise, she would still be able to type merrily away even though the carriage had come to the end of the line, so there really isn't a problem there.

One person emailed me with a link to an even cooler creation of his from a few years back: http://www.idiom.com/~decay/art_folio/letter.html

Erik

--

*******
"What good is science if no one gets hurt?!" - Professor Chromedome

i fail to see why this was modded so highly... by NevermindPhreak · 2003-01-01 18:45 · Score: 0, Offtopic

i know that the parent was informative, but it was a decent part troll as well. if i wanted to find soldering techniques, i would have done a search on google (or asked slashdot, they except everything). its ok that you know how to better solder than the man who made this, but its his project, not yours, so why do you care so much that his soldering job wasnt up to par?

Re:a few notes on my typewriter-keyboard conversio by oooga · 2003-01-01 19:14 · Score: 2

Please hook up with a company to mass-produce these.

I just bought my third typewriter last week. I love the action those keyboards have, much better to get the creative juices flowing than a sterile Lite-ON. I was actually thinking in passing about hacking one to work as a computer keyboard, but I couldn't think of a way to make it work. You have. Sell them. It would be so cool.

--
-- Nerds on toast in the new millenium

The ElectriClerk... by DivideByZero · 2003-01-01 19:43 · Score: 1

Is a full Typewriter/Mac fusion, and very slickly done, to boot. Check it out here.

Nevermind the Windows key, where's the backsapace? by ahecht · 2003-01-01 20:40 · Score: 1

Honestly, I'd think that would eb a bit of a show-stopper for me.

sound-card clicks? by Tablizer · 2003-01-01 20:49 · Score: 1

Could use the default typing sound that ICQ uses.

You mean artificial clicks from the sound-card? I wonder if the response turn-around time is fast enough. Plus, it does not turn off the "pressure" of the actual keys. The idea is to learn to stop moving your fingers at the click sound instead of waiting for a physical stopping point. With artificial sound it would be too late--your finger would probably be hitting the pressure wall already in order to trigger the sound to begin with.

--
Table-ized A.I.

Why not use a proper Teletype? by egil · 2003-01-01 21:38 · Score: 1

The Teletype ASR 33 has a keyboard that is already encoded into proper ASCII, and there is no need to have the printing mechanism enabled. There even is a CTRL key. Not to speach of all the fancy tricks that can be performed with the keypunch - but that is another story...

but...but... by ch-chuck · 2003-01-01 23:25 · Score: 2

what will she use for SCROLL-LOCK????
You can't run a pc without one of those!!!

Actually - someone at work had a click-click keyboard and when the right shift crapped out he asked me to fix it (No I don't want a new keyboard - I want THAT keyboard!) and after bunging up the contacts first try I just 'borrowed' the contact parts from the scroll-lock key. Now r-shift works, and scroll-lock doesn't but it's never used that I know of.

--
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }

Pushed over the brink by lateralus · 2003-01-02 00:05 · Score: 1

As I read the posts my will grew weak. I've just bought a couple of IBM M keyboards on Ebay. I think that you people have just slashdotted my wallet...

--
If you outlaw the law, only criminals will have laws

Key Capture Device by JoseMonkey · 2003-01-02 00:54 · Score: 1

I've invented a keystroke capturing device for this keyboard. I call it "paper" -- simply insert a "sheet" into the typewriter and all keystrokes will be recorded!

What an incredibly romantic gesture by EmagGeek · 2003-01-02 01:07 · Score: 1

This guy _really_ loves his wife. All criticisms of his technical prowess aside, this was a completely amazing project that should be commended. I am in awe as much as I am jealous of all of the brownie points this guy must have been given on Christmas morning...

Reminds me.... by JohnnyCannuk · 2003-01-02 01:57 · Score: 2

...of the "computers" used in the movie "Brazil".

Pretty neat.

--
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha

If only ... by gosand · 2003-01-02 01:57 · Score: 2

(If anyone has a WORKING IBM keyboard like this, please, please reply as I would love to get a hold of another...)

If only there were some sort of internet auction site where you could buy things like this....

.

(ok, I stole this exact comment from someone else on a previous discussion, but it cracked me up)

--

My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

Dissenting opinion by blankmange · 2003-01-02 02:27 · Score: 2

As unpopular as it may be, I highly prefer a reasonably silent keyboard. I read the earlier posts extolling the joys of the IBM 'M' keyboard - its heavy feel, high-quality springs,etc... I have used them and wouldn't own one.

I use a Microsoft keyboard and have found it to be the most responsive and well-laid out kb I have ever used....

As the Human Torch would say: ...flame on...

--
...we are from the government - we are here to help...

Missing number "1" key by nycsubway · 2003-01-02 02:31 · Score: 1

Very early typewriters like the one in the story are also missing the number "1" key. the numbers at the top of the keyboard start at 2. this was done to save space, as the lower-case "L" was to be used as a "1"

--
http://github.com/gbook/nidb

Re:Missing number "1" key by LostCluster · 2003-01-02 08:56 · Score: 2

And some older computer users still hit the "l" when they mean "1" to this day on their computers for exactly that reason.

That substitution, which is now generally thought of as a typo, is a dead giveaway to the age of the typist when you see it made.

Max Headroom by Lord_Of_The_Beer · 2003-01-02 02:40 · Score: 1

Does no One remember Max Headroom (The TV Show)? I must be old

--
D.A.K.D.A.E.---- Deny all Knowledge, Destroy All Evidence

Not reading posts. by stankyho · 2003-01-02 02:55 · Score: 1

I am not even going to bother reading the other posts.

But I am typing this on a old keyboard called the Model M. It came off an old PS/2 that I got from school when they were going to throw it out. I also have another in the closet I got from Goodwill for $2. Anyone else know where I can find anymore? Maybe I'll check on Ebay, but I doubt there are even any still around since they quit making them years ago and everyone now needs the Windows keys.

--

---
eeww, I'll have a crab juice.

Northgate by salesgeek · 2003-01-02 03:38 · Score: 2

This is off-topic... but...

Anyone know where I can find an old Northgate keyboard? I had one forever, but ended up giving it away with an old pc. It had a simmilar feel to an old IBM, but was less spongy and was even more overbuilt (if you can believe it). The letters were injection molded into the keycaps, too, so the labels didn't wear off the keys. As I recall, it could work on a PC, MAC and even on some dumb terminals thanks to a set of dip switches under the northgate label.

$G

--
-- $G

Re:switching to Kinesis keyboard IS a good solutio by MarkCC · 2003-01-02 04:03 · Score: 2

The Kinesis is an absolute godsend.

I've got ulnar nerve trouble related to RSI. For a while the pain had gotten so bad that I'd sit at night with my wrists propped up with a stack of pillows because anyting else was too painful.

The Kinesis didn't solve my problem, but it reduced it to a manageable level. Moving the control and enter keys onto the makes a huge difference, and the contour where your wrists aren't rotated and stressed just sitting on the home row almost instantly cut a lot of my pain.

The rest of my problem comes down to behavior modification, which I haven't been entirely successful at.

-Mark

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 04:38 · Score: 0

spazoid12 isn't actually anonymous, he posts his real name on a regular basis, usually in a munged way to get around junk mail outfits sending him credit card offers, catalogues, etc.

His actual name and address though is:

Joseph. R. Hartley
73 Brookside Close,
Henley upon Thames,
Berkshire, UK - RG12 7YP

It's pretty easy to get this information, just use AT&T's excellent AnyWho service to google for spazoid12. He's the author of "Fly Fishing", a book that was immensely popular during the early nineties.

The other version of this hack by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 04:49 · Score: 0

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the ElectriClerk, which was definitely crafted to look like something out a Terry Gilliam film.

It's an Underwood married to the guts of an old Mac SE, with the CRT taken out of the case and put behind a fresnel lens. He even incorporated a trackball and a cobbled-together keypad.

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 04:59 · Score: 0

That is a bunch of crap. You pick the context for the statement that I made?

Yes, of course I do. I'm going to analyze your statement and render an opinion of whether it makes sense in any context I choose. It's called a "two way conversation".

If you're going to criticize someone for posting anonynmously, it's ludicrous to be critical of someone for being anonymous in the context of Slashdot. I repeat, who gives a crap about Slashdot? How is someone less cowardly for assigning a tag to their posts to tie them together? What, is ruining your nick's reputation (note distinction with YOUR reputation) on Slashdot going to have major repercussions?

But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please explain to me how someone is "standing up" by assigning an anonymous nickname to their posts. Yes, you've mentioned that people might detect a commonality among the pattern of posts and exchange real world information. But that can happen in a series of AC posts as well (in fact, I've seen it happen). But that's not even the point. I want to hear how an anonymous nick's reputation matters in the context of Slashdot.

Amiga keyboard by ramzeus · 2003-01-02 05:00 · Score: 1

Amiga keyboards felt very soft to press...

escape key no need by RY · 2003-01-02 05:08 · Score: 1

:wq or :q!
Done!!!!!!!!

Re:My experience by Anonymous+Custard · 2003-01-02 05:41 · Score: 2

Well, I play the guitar, not that well but that's another story.
I find I get more problems with my hands from using the wheel on the mouse then from playing the guitar.
Although the motions are fairly simila, the extra bit of resistance on the guitar strings might be what prevents the stress....
I've never had any problems typing, and I've been doing that long enough. (though again I use clicky not soft keyboards).

I'm a guitarist too... I think the biggest difference is that with a mouse your wrist and fingers are constantly making small effortless movements, with most of the rest of your hand staying still. This is also done with the hand basically straightened out, like when you place your hand flat on a table. On guitar, your strumming/picking hand is usually in its natural curved state, with your fingers making broader and more varied motions (when fingerpicking). Your other hand (used to depress the strings) is also constantly moving, but even if it stays still on a chord for a while it's in a natural gripping position. On the computer when playing games or surfing the internet, people will often keep their hand on the mouse for long periods, unlike guitarists who move their hands around while playing and don't usually play for more than 5 minutes without a short break.

Plus, guitarists practice proper technique and exercise much more often than computer users practice proper mouse-using.

--
$8.95/mo web hosting

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 05:53 · Score: 0

Spazoid12 is not anonymous. It's not as if he's tried to keep his identity secret or anything.

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 06:13 · Score: 0

Don't talk to me about a tree when I'm making a point about the forest.

Nihongo-yaku by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 06:45 · Score: 0

tsuma no te ni
awaseta chiisana
ki-bo-do.

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by spazoid12 · 2003-01-02 09:50 · Score: 1

I'm going to go and ignore this thread now. You can pretend that your super duper debating skills scared me off. Feel free to tell your mom all about it.

Re:how to save money & work less QWZX by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 10:01 · Score: 0

You can pretend that your super duper debating skills scared me off. Feel free to tell your mom all about it.

I don't need to have "super duper debating skills" when the truth is on my side. However, your debating skills seem to consist of getting louder and more belligerant when your position gets less and less tenuous.

Maybe you should check in with your mom about how to gracefully concede defeat. Actually, I'm not completely convinced that she isn't just upstairs from your "basement accommodations".

yeah, famous last words by nido · 2003-01-02 12:22 · Score: 3, Interesting

I got an ibm thinkpad in August of 1999. Within a couple of months my right hand was starting to cramp up. "no problem", I said, and I switched to using the left hand on the track point. Then after a bit both hands were cramping up. So I started to switch back & forth. And then the pain gradually spread to typing too, and it hasn't gotten better yet.

So switching mouse hands was, for me, a disaster - I should've changed pointing devices, or my usage patterns...

--
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com

Not for me (Re:That's wierd) by salimma · 2003-01-10 19:39 · Score: 2

.. Towards our primary school graduation we were told to learn how to type since our affiliated middle school requires typed reports for science experiments.

Naturally, the nearby typing school only has old mechanical typewriters. And you are scored at the end of the course by the number of clean characters per minute, so it was experimenting until I found a comfortable position.

Simply put, it was with my wrist straight, i.e. not resting on the typewriter. My hands were hovering about 1-cm above the typewriter to let my fingers build speed before hitting the keys.

Bad for the fingers, but my wrists have felt worse after an extended period in front of a normal keyboard.

It was quite fun smashing the carriage return lever too :p

--
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut

Last Post! by alpg · 2003-01-14 16:01 · Score: 1

... in three to eight years we will have a machine with the general
intelligence of an average human being ... The machine will begin
to educate itself with fantastic speed. In a few months it will be
at genius level and a few months after that its powers will be
incalculable ...
-- Marvin Minsky, LIFE Magazine, November 20, 1970

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Last Post! by alpg · 2003-01-15 17:26 · Score: 1

I asked the engineer who designed the communication terminal's keyboards
why these were not manufactured in a central facility, in view of the
small number needed [1 per month] in his factory. He explained that this
would be contrary to the political concept of local self-sufficiency.
Therefore, each factory needing keyboards, no matter how few, manufactures
them completely, even molding the keypads.
-- Isaac Auerbach, IEEE "Computer", Nov. 1979

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