your kidding right? do you watch TV? Dell, Compaq and Gateway all advertise there cheep $500 systems and in the fine print it says "with a 15" (13.8" veiwable) screen!
oh boy! i can get a 14" screen with my $500 POS that isn't fast enough to run the OS it comes with!!!:D
i hate to pick nits but the Quadra 610 had the same FPU free CPU as the Centris 610.
the only difference was that the Centris had the cool, old floppy drive that sucks in the disk for you, whereas the Quadra had the stupid floppy drive that you had to jam the disk all the way in for it to take;)
not only that, but the Centris line was around before the Quadra line, when apple came out with the Quadra line, they killed the Centris line and rebranded all the Centris'! (and gave them the cheaper floppy drive)
don't forget the security guy^H^H^H^H moron having a conversation with a QuickTime movie, you can watch the play head move and you know how much more a conversation he has to go;)
actually it wouldn't be an emulator, just a run time environment not unlike Classic for Mac OS X. the Genesis used a Motorola 68000 CPU, the palm uses a CPU that executes 68k code....hmm....:D
note: I don't know what CPU the atari had, but I doubt it was a 68k, there for, emulation will be a little slow.
i don't recommend that you try to scientifically answer the question, in a best case scenario it would result in the destruction of the planet earth, and in a worst case, the implosion of this universe! (and many others)
similar results are to be expected if you successfully divide by zero:D
hear is a readable version (actuly it's more readable then the orignal!): Linux for the PS2 and Sony's Intellectual
Property
In a few months Sony Computer Entertainment of America
will be releasing a version of Linux for their terribly popular Playstation
2. I can't help but to feel a little worried about this. Is Sony's PS2
Version of Linux Free, as in Freedom? Sony's never been one to be very
forthcoming when it comes to giving their intellectual property away for
free. Anyone familiar with my Playstation
Documentation Project know that I have a past with Sony. Thankfully
only by proxy. Not to go into outrageous details, but my documentation
came about from a bet that I had with a Sony representative. It was during
the first volleys of Sony's litigation with "Bleem!", a small two-man company
that set out to make a commercial Playstation 1 (PSX) emulator for
PC. Sony, at the time, was claming that the creation of the "Bleem!"
violated countless patents, copyrights, and trade secrets. I, for one,
thought the trade secret argument was a bunch of hooey. I speak and read
Japanese and seen all kinds of documents about how the PSX functioned from
both sides of the pond. Also homebrew developers and professionals were
swapping notes in a wildly open mailing list that I had subscribed to.
With this wealth of information in hand, I bet my Sony rep that I could
peg about 75% of the internal architecture of the PSX without signing a
Non-Discourse Agreement (NDA) with Sony, or using any official Sony documentation.
I still have no Idea how close I got, but from the
kudos and pats on the back I have received, I must of gotten pretty darn
close. I was also asked to be a witness for the Sony vs. Connectix trial
to show that Sony's claims of trade secrets was a pretty moot point. Before
I was called to trial , Sony bought the Virtual GameStation division from
Connectix. That in itself also proves to me that the doc is a little more
than just a bunch a numbers I pulled out of my butt.
After I published the doc, I kind of picked up intellectual
property law as sort of a hobby. I figured that between Linux programming
and studying Japanese linguistics, one more esoteric hobby couldn't hurt.
I watched as intellectual property disputes raised issues that was supposedly
solved over 100 years ago, but somehow it's different today simply
because the media is digital now. I also watched as John Q. Public didn't
care and continue not to do so. I also sit, bemused, as companies take
advantage of this. In the future people won't care simply because "it was
always like that"
So imagine my shock when I learned that Sony was
releasing a version of Linux for the PS2 in Japan. I was so used to seeing
Sony fight tooth-and nail for their intellectual property, especially when
it came to their game console. Now here they gave giving away the keys
to the store, or were they?
Allow me to segway for a bit;
When I lived in Japan from 1992-1996, I saw
the state of intellectual property there first hand. For example, normal
broadcast radio does not play top 40 hits. Actually any transmission of
copyrighted songs over the air, even a sample, must have a royalty paid
to the publisher. If you want to listen to music on the radio, you find
an American military station broadcasting on base. Japanese singers also
do not commonly own the copyright to their own songs, they couldn't give
them away even if the wanted to. Concert recordings are also illegal. There
is also royalties you have to pay for the subtle music played in department
stores, doctor's offices, and on the phone when you are on hold. Videos
are divided into "rental" and "non-rental" versions. The "rental" version
commonly cost more to the rental house, and the non-rental version must
be sold at a particular price point set by the manufacturer for an allotted
amount of time. As I'm writing this I have three Japanese items published
by Sony that I purchased during a recent jaunt to the country. The first
is a concert video, next is a CD, and lastly a PSX game. Along the
spine the video, written in big bold Japanese letters are the words
"Rental Prohibited". It's also set at a price of 6,700 yen (about $67 USD
at the time) with a "Pull Price" of 6,505 yen ($65) This second price is
when Sony gives the store permission to "clear the shelves" and can then
sell at that price without getting penalized. These are prices set by Sony.
The CD is set at 2,800 yen ($28) with a pull price
of 2,718 yen (a buck cheaper) These prices were set until July 15, 1992.
The CD was published in 1988. Lastly, my Japanese PSX game just set at
a pull price of 5,800 ($58) It's up to the store to set something higher
for profit
So now you could understand why I was so amazed to see Sony selling
a Linux kit! Linux and proprietary hardware do not go hand-in-hand.
What about all the trade secrets that Sony waged a war in order to protect?
It wasn't adding up. Their last PSX "hobby system", the Net Yaroze, game
with some pretty steep intellectual property requirements. They required
you to sign a Non-Disclosure agreement, relinquish all copyright control
to the programs you made to Sony, and you had to use statically linked
run-time libraries that not only bloated code, but kept you fingers out
of the hardware. You also had no access to the CD-ROM. You have to upload
your code (no more than 2 meg, including the library) via a slow serial
connection and execute remotely.
As more information came out about the PS2 Linux,
I have found that even though they don't technically violate GPL, they
are doing some pretty shifty things to make sure that their intellectual
property is intact. From both the Japanese and English FAQs I have read,
I have found out how they did it. Now I haven't played with the Japanese
PS2 Linux system, but I've read Japanese reports. I'm also a Linux enthusiast,
and though I can't claim I know every facet of the OS, I know how to roll
my own distribution from scratch. What bothers me to no end, and
the key to Sony's ability to keeping the PS2 locked out of even the
most uber of superusers is the use of what called "The PlayStation 2 Runtime
Environment"
This is how the Runtime Environment (RTE)
works. In order to get Linux running on your PS2, you must boot the system
using the PS2 Linux DVD. During boot, after all the copy-protection
stuff is taken care of, the system lays down the Runtime Environment. This
is basically a layer that hides access to the SPU2 (Sound Processing Unit),
the input/output processor, the hard drive, the CD/DVD-ROM system, the
controllers, memory cards, USB, i.Link and other peripherals. The RTE does
supply hardware looking hooks, an educated guess being faux-memory address
and registers. Then the Linux kernel is loaded onto of this. There are
Linux device drivers that accesses the Runtime Environment that are open
source, but it's just a device driver calling in all actuality, another
device driver that's closed.
What you can and can't do with the system is limited.
You have no ability to read a normal PSX or PS2 memory card directly. For
example you can't open a Final Fantasy X save, edit how much cash you have,
and save it again. Through the RTE you can format a whole memory card(!)
and mount it like an 8 meg hard drive, but that card would be worthless
for saving normal PS2 games. Once you put the Linux formatted card
without Linux running (i.e. you are in the browser) it's ask to reformat
the card.
The RTE also not allow audio CDs to be identified.
It also can tell if you have put in a CD-R or not (it can see
a wobble track, which all CD-Rs have ) and likewise not allow the disk
to be seen. A PS2 can read CD-Rs fine, the RTE is just doing copy protection
first to make sure you can't. You will also have no access to the CSS portion
of the MPEG decoder, but you can decode raw MPEG-4. Direct access to the
Dolby subsystem is also denied. Anything dealing with region locks
are also restricted.
The first DVD (The boot disk) has a Linux boot loader
and the RTE on it. This disk is not allowed to be copied. It also has the
manuals on it too, which I'm sure are also copyrighted and not allowed
to be publicly distributed. The Linux kernel is on the second disk and
also on the hard drive after it's installed.
In order to use a monitor, you must one that is "Sync
on Green" . This means that the refresh rate is only in the green
channel. The monitor must use that sync pulse to sync red and blue channels
so they all get painted in the screen at the same time. The reason
why you have to use that is because a PS2 can turn it's sync on green ability
on and off. If you try and use the monitor adapter for playing
PS2 games or watching DVDs, sync on green will be turned off and only the
green channel will show up. Direct video output defeats Macrovision. Sony
doesn't want you making copies of DVDs to tape.
Keep in mind that your network adapter is going to have a MAC
address that Sony, no doubt, knows. Also removing the PS2 hard drive and
attempting to mount in a PC will also likely not work and possibly damage
the drive.
That's about it. Any questions or comments can be
directed at me. I'm probably not going to pick up a Linux kit for my PS2
because I really can't afford it and I have a much more open version of
Linux on my other PC. I'm not trying to dump on the system. I'm just trying
to make people a little bit more aware. If I have anything wrong please
correct me. Any negative comments must be processed through/dev/null before
sending them me. ^_^
actuly, travel costs were less! think about it, square is bassed in japan. they had both amaricans and japaneese working on the film. flying 100% across the pacific for one on one business cost twice as much as flying 50% across the pacific to do one on one business! not to mention that hawaii is a nice place to be if you happen to get off your ass and go outside:D
ah, but the PPC family was BASED on the Power family! as a matter of a fact, the 601 (the 1st PPC) had some bacwords compatibility with the Power. that backwords compatibility was since removed from the line.
btw, i havn't seen anybody else mention this yet, but it apears that these new G4's have SOI! that means they are apollos!:D:D:D
quite frankly, their [MS's] developing tools are second to none. For crying out loud, VC++6 is 4 years old, and the only thing better out there is VS.NET
this is where the MacOS X Developer Tools come in, they may or may not be better then MS's tools (i've only used VB 4 & 5, they sucked) but they are free all you have to do is own a copy of Mac OS X and you have an incredible, and versitle development inviroment, just by inserting the included CD (retail OS X only) or a quick 150 MB download!
they work for CLI and GUI apps, they work with Java, C, C++, Obj. C, and a new one: Apple Script (think of original Basic, just for controling other apps)
i don't think i've worked in an easer development enviroment. if i knew Obj. C, (still learning C++) i could probably build a cocoa app quicker then a Visual Basic app with the same funcionality!:)
i'm not sure but i think some of that is the BBC version, and some is the US version! i haven't listened to it all the way (setting up an MP3 CD for the car) but i don't think there is a british accent all the way through!:D
Slashdot Mirror
speaking of piracy...
your kidding right? do you watch TV? Dell, Compaq and Gateway all advertise there cheep $500 systems and in the fine print it says "with a 15" (13.8" veiwable) screen!
:D
oh boy! i can get a 14" screen with my $500 POS that isn't fast enough to run the OS it comes with!!!
i hate to pick nits but the Quadra 610 had the same FPU free CPU as the Centris 610.
;)
the only difference was that the Centris had the cool, old floppy drive that sucks in the disk for you, whereas the Quadra had the stupid floppy drive that you had to jam the disk all the way in for it to take
not only that, but the Centris line was around before the Quadra line, when apple came out with the Quadra line, they killed the Centris line and rebranded all the Centris'! (and gave them the cheaper floppy drive)
don't forget the security guy^H^H^H^H moron having a conversation with a QuickTime movie, you can watch the play head move and you know how much more a conversation he has to go ;)
actually it wouldn't be an emulator, just a run time environment not unlike Classic for Mac OS X. the Genesis used a Motorola 68000 CPU, the palm uses a CPU that executes 68k code....hmm.... :D
note: I don't know what CPU the atari had, but I doubt it was a 68k, there for, emulation will be a little slow.
i don't recommend that you try to scientifically answer the question, in a best case scenario it would result in the destruction of the planet earth, and in a worst case, the implosion of this universe! (and many others)
:D
similar results are to be expected if you successfully divide by zero
well we still have 12.8 more years before the events of Back to the Future Part II take place.
i'm more conserned about the Pan Am space liner to the moon that didn't happen last year...
Did you also notice that :wq doesn't work in MS Word?
;)
yeah i did, i also noticed that cmd/ctr-s then cmd/ctr-q closes my terminal without saveing in vi!
ARG!!!
back to bbedit
fire up two all-Anime, pay TV networks. One subbed, one dubbed.
why not just one network with SAP and CC? don't tell me your TV doesn't support these features?!
have a looksee at Insulting Partners Is Fun on AtAT. that is probably the best written artical on the subject i could find ;)
Emulation..... Uh... Heard of DOSemu?
yeah, just a few minutes ago in the freeDOS faq. it says that DOSemu includs freeDOS....what were you asking about it?
Linux for the PS2 and Sony's Intellectual Property
In a few months Sony Computer Entertainment of America will be releasing a version of Linux for their terribly popular Playstation 2. I can't help but to feel a little worried about this. Is Sony's PS2 Version of Linux Free, as in Freedom? Sony's never been one to be very forthcoming when it comes to giving their intellectual property away for free. Anyone familiar with my Playstation Documentation Project know that I have a past with Sony. Thankfully only by proxy. Not to go into outrageous details, but my documentation came about from a bet that I had with a Sony representative. It was during the first volleys of Sony's litigation with "Bleem!", a small two-man company that set out to make a commercial Playstation 1 (PSX) emulator for PC. Sony, at the time, was claming that the creation of the "Bleem!" violated countless patents, copyrights, and trade secrets. I, for one, thought the trade secret argument was a bunch of hooey. I speak and read Japanese and seen all kinds of documents about how the PSX functioned from both sides of the pond. Also homebrew developers and professionals were swapping notes in a wildly open mailing list that I had subscribed to. With this wealth of information in hand, I bet my Sony rep that I could peg about 75% of the internal architecture of the PSX without signing a Non-Discourse Agreement (NDA) with Sony, or using any official Sony documentation.
I still have no Idea how close I got, but from the kudos and pats on the back I have received, I must of gotten pretty darn close. I was also asked to be a witness for the Sony vs. Connectix trial to show that Sony's claims of trade secrets was a pretty moot point. Before I was called to trial , Sony bought the Virtual GameStation division from Connectix. That in itself also proves to me that the doc is a little more than just a bunch a numbers I pulled out of my butt.
After I published the doc, I kind of picked up intellectual property law as sort of a hobby. I figured that between Linux programming and studying Japanese linguistics, one more esoteric hobby couldn't hurt. I watched as intellectual property disputes raised issues that was supposedly solved over 100 years ago, but somehow it's different today simply because the media is digital now. I also watched as John Q. Public didn't care and continue not to do so. I also sit, bemused, as companies take advantage of this. In the future people won't care simply because "it was always like that"
So imagine my shock when I learned that Sony was releasing a version of Linux for the PS2 in Japan. I was so used to seeing Sony fight tooth-and nail for their intellectual property, especially when it came to their game console. Now here they gave giving away the keys to the store, or were they?
Allow me to segway for a bit;
When I lived in Japan from 1992-1996, I saw the state of intellectual property there first hand. For example, normal broadcast radio does not play top 40 hits. Actually any transmission of copyrighted songs over the air, even a sample, must have a royalty paid to the publisher. If you want to listen to music on the radio, you find an American military station broadcasting on base. Japanese singers also do not commonly own the copyright to their own songs, they couldn't give them away even if the wanted to. Concert recordings are also illegal. There is also royalties you have to pay for the subtle music played in department stores, doctor's offices, and on the phone when you are on hold. Videos are divided into "rental" and "non-rental" versions. The "rental" version commonly cost more to the rental house, and the non-rental version must be sold at a particular price point set by the manufacturer for an allotted amount of time. As I'm writing this I have three Japanese items published by Sony that I purchased during a recent jaunt to the country. The first is a concert video, next is a CD, and lastly a PSX game. Along the spine the video, written in big bold Japanese letters are the words "Rental Prohibited". It's also set at a price of 6,700 yen (about $67 USD at the time) with a "Pull Price" of 6,505 yen ($65) This second price is when Sony gives the store permission to "clear the shelves" and can then sell at that price without getting penalized. These are prices set by Sony.
The CD is set at 2,800 yen ($28) with a pull price of 2,718 yen (a buck cheaper) These prices were set until July 15, 1992. The CD was published in 1988. Lastly, my Japanese PSX game just set at a pull price of 5,800 ($58) It's up to the store to set something higher for profit
So now you could understand why I was so amazed to see Sony selling a Linux kit! Linux and proprietary hardware do not go hand-in-hand. What about all the trade secrets that Sony waged a war in order to protect? It wasn't adding up. Their last PSX "hobby system", the Net Yaroze, game with some pretty steep intellectual property requirements. They required you to sign a Non-Disclosure agreement, relinquish all copyright control to the programs you made to Sony, and you had to use statically linked run-time libraries that not only bloated code, but kept you fingers out of the hardware. You also had no access to the CD-ROM. You have to upload your code (no more than 2 meg, including the library) via a slow serial connection and execute remotely.
As more information came out about the PS2 Linux, I have found that even though they don't technically violate GPL, they are doing some pretty shifty things to make sure that their intellectual property is intact. From both the Japanese and English FAQs I have read, I have found out how they did it. Now I haven't played with the Japanese PS2 Linux system, but I've read Japanese reports. I'm also a Linux enthusiast, and though I can't claim I know every facet of the OS, I know how to roll my own distribution from scratch. What bothers me to no end, and the key to Sony's ability to keeping the PS2 locked out of even the most uber of superusers is the use of what called "The PlayStation 2 Runtime Environment"
This is how the Runtime Environment (RTE) works. In order to get Linux running on your PS2, you must boot the system using the PS2 Linux DVD. During boot, after all the copy-protection stuff is taken care of, the system lays down the Runtime Environment. This is basically a layer that hides access to the SPU2 (Sound Processing Unit), the input/output processor, the hard drive, the CD/DVD-ROM system, the controllers, memory cards, USB, i.Link and other peripherals. The RTE does supply hardware looking hooks, an educated guess being faux-memory address and registers. Then the Linux kernel is loaded onto of this. There are Linux device drivers that accesses the Runtime Environment that are open source, but it's just a device driver calling in all actuality, another device driver that's closed.
What you can and can't do with the system is limited. You have no ability to read a normal PSX or PS2 memory card directly. For example you can't open a Final Fantasy X save, edit how much cash you have, and save it again. Through the RTE you can format a whole memory card(!) and mount it like an 8 meg hard drive, but that card would be worthless for saving normal PS2 games. Once you put the Linux formatted card without Linux running (i.e. you are in the browser) it's ask to reformat the card.
The RTE also not allow audio CDs to be identified. It also can tell if you have put in a CD-R or not (it can see a wobble track, which all CD-Rs have ) and likewise not allow the disk to be seen. A PS2 can read CD-Rs fine, the RTE is just doing copy protection first to make sure you can't. You will also have no access to the CSS portion of the MPEG decoder, but you can decode raw MPEG-4. Direct access to the Dolby subsystem is also denied. Anything dealing with region locks are also restricted.
The first DVD (The boot disk) has a Linux boot loader and the RTE on it. This disk is not allowed to be copied. It also has the manuals on it too, which I'm sure are also copyrighted and not allowed to be publicly distributed. The Linux kernel is on the second disk and also on the hard drive after it's installed.
In order to use a monitor, you must one that is "Sync on Green" . This means that the refresh rate is only in the green channel. The monitor must use that sync pulse to sync red and blue channels so they all get painted in the screen at the same time. The reason why you have to use that is because a PS2 can turn it's sync on green ability on and off. If you try and use the monitor adapter for playing PS2 games or watching DVDs, sync on green will be turned off and only the green channel will show up. Direct video output defeats Macrovision. Sony doesn't want you making copies of DVDs to tape.
Keep in mind that your network adapter is going to have a MAC address that Sony, no doubt, knows. Also removing the PS2 hard drive and attempting to mount in a PC will also likely not work and possibly damage the drive.
That's about it. Any questions or comments can be directed at me. I'm probably not going to pick up a Linux kit for my PS2 because I really can't afford it and I have a much more open version of Linux on my other PC. I'm not trying to dump on the system. I'm just trying to make people a little bit more aware. If I have anything wrong please correct me. Any negative comments must be processed through /dev/null before
sending them me. ^_^
Back to home
halkun@execpc.com
actuly, travel costs were less! think about it, square is bassed in japan. they had both amaricans and japaneese working on the film. flying 100% across the pacific for one on one business cost twice as much as flying 50% across the pacific to do one on one business! not to mention that hawaii is a nice place to be if you happen to get off your ass and go outside :D
ah, but the PPC family was BASED on the Power family! as a matter of a fact, the 601 (the 1st PPC) had some bacwords compatibility with the Power. that backwords compatibility was since removed from the line.
:D :D :D
btw, i havn't seen anybody else mention this yet, but it apears that these new G4's have SOI! that means they are apollos!
sadly, sbc just put a terrif on DSL prices! they are a minimum of $40 a month, no ifs, ands, or butts (i can't find a source right now)
i got PacBell DSL when it was Minimum 384/128 kbit uncaped. and with my ISP, (sonic.net) i can host what ever i want on 4 included static IPs! :D
:)
i usualy get around 1Mbit/128kbit and just ignore my upstream performance
"damnit, people with colored computers."
hmm that sounds racist to me! what is it that you people have you agains computers of color?
quite frankly, their [MS's] developing tools are second to none. For crying out loud, VC++6 is 4 years old, and the only thing better out there is VS.NET
:)
this is where the MacOS X Developer Tools come in, they may or may not be better then MS's tools (i've only used VB 4 & 5, they sucked) but they are free all you have to do is own a copy of Mac OS X and you have an incredible, and versitle development inviroment, just by inserting the included CD (retail OS X only) or a quick 150 MB download!
they work for CLI and GUI apps, they work with Java, C, C++, Obj. C, and a new one: Apple Script (think of original Basic, just for controling other apps)
i don't think i've worked in an easer development enviroment. if i knew Obj. C, (still learning C++) i could probably build a cocoa app quicker then a Visual Basic app with the same funcionality!
what, you don't just reload /. like me? gee, i wish i could afford cable, (i spend all my money on DSL) but like you said, unemployeement ;)
i'm not sure but i think some of that is the BBC version, and some is the US version! i haven't listened to it all the way (setting up an MP3 CD for the car) but i don't think there is a british accent all the way through! :D
or i could just scroll down :D
you may ignore above...
The photo seems to depict three 'thespian' types.
They have names I have never heard of b4 ? - Am I supposed to know who they are ?
you don't reconise Bilbo from the movie?! i spotted him right off the bat! (hint: he played frodo in the BBC production)
/me can't find it on amazon.com :(
/me wonders how nomadic found it...
Saturday 14.30 - 15.30 from 5 January 2002 GMT
:D
or... 6:30 AM PST... oh boy! now i won't even be able to sleep in an the weekends!
the Ringwraiths == the Nazgul == the Black Riders