You did not refute anything I said about the adds being BS, so you agree with that part? (your little ":P" implies so)
You're entitled to your opinion.
However, I say to you the word "Switch" - what do you think of, immediately? The damn word is about to enter the common vernacular, and every time it's used - people will think of Apple.
I argue they're effective... do a search on google for Ellen Feiss!
You don't agree with apple looking like fools for the simple fact that MS copied it. MS's copy is like a parody of it, if anything.
MS's looks like a parody because their behaviour is so stupid - a direct copy of a competitor's ad? The thing is, parodies aren't written in MS-market droid happy-speak. This one is. There's nothing intentionally funny about it; all that's funny is the fact that MS - with a marketing budget how many times bigger than that of Apple - could only come up with a cheap copy, written by somebody on their payroll. We're not laughing with them, we're laughing at them.
Weather or not it was an intentional parody, most people will agree (and has already been said in this discussion) that it was obvius that this is not a real case study, but Apple's is supposed to be one.. So, for all intents and purposes, its parody, and making apple look foolish
It's funny how that MS regrets posting the ad. There's three pages worth of/. users laughing at how dumb MS are, and here's you saying it's a great parody.
I think you might be able to get a job at the same place the MS "freelance writer" works.
If apple's add's are actual case studies, that just goes to show what kind of idiots have switched to Mac and think its better for them. You forgot to back up your paper, so you lost half of it in a program crash (or HDD failure)? So you blame the OS/hardwareplatform for your incompetance, and then switch to Mac and think its all better?
They're not idiots, they're ordinary people. That's the whole point. They don't post on/. with spelling mistakes (like you) - they simply want to use the computer as a tool. They find that macs are a better tool than PCs are, and I say there is a lot of truth in that. You may find Windows suits you better. That doesn't make these people's experiences less relevant, and doesn't mean that a lot of people won't be able to relate to what is said.
Hate to tell you this, but a Mac will lose your paper just as quickly as a PC, wether the program crashes, or your HDD fails, or bad memory, or faulty motherboard, or faulty IDE cables, or faulty USER module.
Well, I have administered and supported both macs and pcs (not linux) for quite some time, and let me say this - the only time I've ever needed to format a HD on a mac was when the computer was being sold. The same could not be said for a PC; Windows would die at a prodigious rate.
Point? Mac's dont prevent, fix, or reduce the problems these incompetant users in the Adds are having. To them, its like they went to the doctor and say "my arm hurts when i do this" and the doctor says.. "inject yourself with this each day and itl go away" and hands them a vial of water.
funny how Apple repeatedly comes out on top in user satisfaction surveys and lowest TCO. If what you say is true, and the mac is nothing more than a placebo, how do you explain these reports?
It's in their minds, they are idiots, and you know they are, just won't admit it.
No, in your mind, they are idiots. In my mind, they are ordinary people just trying to go about their lives. They had a positive experience with a computer, and wanted to share it.
I think Microsoft just wants to ignore this until it goes away. Further actions that would end up in the news would not be in their best interest.
Yeah, I can just see tomorrow's version of this story: ""The AP tracked down the switcher and spoke with her: she's an employee at a Microsoft public relations firm, but she says she actually did switch from Mac to Windows after MS offered her free hardware, and threatened the PR firm with loss of contract in the event she contradicted their fake story.
After threats of termination of job, and physical harm against her family, Mallison relented and agreed to corroborate the article."
You may say "well done apple" but in reality, every single thing that is said in their switch campaign is total and utter bullshit. Not only that, but its just ridiculous the situations these people were in. What, that girl that lost half her paper, she using some fucked up win95 machine thats 25 years old with a failing hard drive?
That's not just some girl, that's Ellen Feiss! Don't talk about Ellen like that!
Mac's don't prevent failed hard drives. Mac's crash, Mac's still have to deal with incompetant users.
Only when on a Windows network:P
Every single commercial or ad i have seen involving apple's switch campaign is utter bullshit, and that is exactly the point. MS is copying it, and making apple look like the fools they really are.
MS copying it, making Apple look like fools?
Oooh, I like your logic. Apple makes ads. Microsoft makes ads exactly like Apple. Apple looks like fools?
Uh uh buddy, it's the other way around. MS are the fools... unoriginal fools too!
So far, most operating systems other than Microsoft Windows are giving DRM a cold shoulder. Windows is the exception, not the rule.
In fact, it's hard to see how DRM could work if there were a lively, competitive market in operating systems, media software, and hardware. In some way, DRM can only work if Microsoft keeps 95%+ of the market, which is kind of scary, because it means that Hollywood is going to do what they can to support Microsoft's monopoly.
You're looking at it the wrong way. At the moment, there are two OS vendors that make OSs designed for consumers to use with digital media - music, pictures, movies, etc. It's not MS vs all the other OS vendors - it's Apple vs MS. Those are the only two vendors that really count as far as DRM in the consumer space (which is what we're talking about).
There's MS in one corner - pandering to the RIAA and MPAA - and Apple in the other, giving the beforenamed organisations the royal two-fingered salute.
I know which side of the fence I'd rather be sitting on.
one of the passengers on one of the planes that came down on 9/11 (it was the one that crashed in the field, IIRC) was a founder of Akamai Networks, one of the load sharing/distribution companies that allow bandwidth to scale according to demand. As his plane came down, his company was entering one of the most demanding days in its history, as more people were targeting news sites at once than ever before.
It's organisations like that which will assist in the next big news item.
because what Teledesic could have offered has so much potential.
Apart from the fact that you save wiring up hundreds of countries that cannot afford it - and hence provide internet access to millions upon millions of people that previously could not get online - but what's more, for those of us road warriors, it could have been a godsend.
Yeah, it's all very well to have broadband internet - but it's only available at your desk! What happens if you're out in the field and you want to send/stream a movie back to base? At the moment, it's damn hard (and expensive) to do it... but allow for this to take off, everywhere you go, fast internet. Teledesic is to the internet what the mobile phone is to voice telephony.
I know there are still latency issues to work out, but eventually it could become like many households (especially students) where there are no landline phones, just mobiles - instead of having a fixed, wired access point, everybody has wireless, move anywhere mobile access... anywhere in the world.
I'm sure it'll happen, but minus the backing of the big guns like Gates et co, it may take a while longer.
BTW, how come someone hasn't set up a P2P network that allows me to stream music from my buddy's computer. Wouldn't this be the same as listening to music at a friend's house? Would the RIAA shut this down?
At the last macworld, Steve Jobs demo'd his new "Rendezvous" zero configuration networking technology coupled with iTunes. Somebody on stage opened a laptop connected to the network via airport, all their songs showed up on Steve's computer. He could play any of them.
The laptop was put to sleep - the songs disappeared. Opened the laptop - bang, there they were again.
Gates book, 'The Road Ahead' was disconnected from reality as well. MS was late to the Internet, and continues to exhibit a follow-the-leader style of reaction vs. action thinking. They don't get it and they never will.
That's what I find so fascinating about the whole MS thing - by and large, they're a bunch of highly effective morons. Obviously, there are some very intelligent coders in there (there'd have to be to get that mess known as windows to run on anything), but by and large their strategy is totally reactionary, and all they seem to know how to do is totally whack competitors. Nothing original or useful.
Yet look at their position in the market. I find it incredible.
where there's a damn about to burst, and it keeps springing leaks. All they do is stick their fingers in the leaks... eventually, they run out of fingers, and start using toes. Then the toes run out.
Eventually Microsoft will run out of digits (as in the fingers & toes). If you want to keep a system secure, you can't be reactionary. You can't wait for a leak to spring up, and then stick a finger in it.
And that's part of the whole problem with the MS culture - it's not a problem until it's exploited. Then you fix it. This is the best reason I can give you as to why not to use MS products. 'Cause they don't give a fuck until something's seriously broken. And then, it's too damn late.
Perhaps the time has come for all artists, new upcomers or old timers, to seek an alternative distribution model.
I agree. And it's gonna take a lot of artists (and influential ones at that, too) to get something done about it.
I thought this was going to be more hot air, then I saw the list of who was backing the Recording Artists Coalition:...whose diverse roster of 150 members includes Bruce Springsteen, Sting, R.E.M., Bonnie Raitt, Madonna, Eric Clapton, Dave Matthews, Billy Joel, Elton John, Linkin Park, Aimee Mann, No Doubt, Puddle of Mudd, Staind and Static-X There's a few heavyweights in there, and a fair few middleweights too. They will be heard - I just hope they don't get a whole heap of concessions but still leave the consumer out in the cold.
I would seriously love to see the end of the RIAA, but there's so much money involved, it ain't gonna be easy to get rid of them. Who would roll over when you have one of the most lucrative monopolies in the history of mankind?
I think that maybe CIA/FBI statistics are a little less forthcoming than those from ASIO. With all these measures to prevent terrorism, I'd assume that the CIA and FBI combined would be at least 20 times what they were just over a year ago anyway.
In short: I don't believe it.
The USA can keep dreaming that they have privacy, but guys, face it - you don't live in the land of the free any more.
And remember, this was last year. The year when the collective "intelligence" agencies in the US took an absolute beating for failing to catch the biggest terrorist act in history. Politicians, press, public... everyone came down on them like a tonne of bricks!
If they weren't tapping last year, let me guarantee you they're gonna be tapping left, right and centre this year.
Oh, we don't disagree that this is what they have done. What you're apparently not grasping, however, is that this is precisely what they've been telling developers NOT to do all along. And, IMOP, they've been right all along. But they can't have it both ways. They criticise, for instance, winamp, and rightly so - but then they build the same mistakes they point out in winamp into QT.
it's nice to have these running debates way after the topics off the main page. thanks for the chat, Arker.
I still dispute that QT6, iTunes, etc has a poor interface, or even a non-standard one. It has a non-standard background - yep, it's silver instead of white (or whatever) - but other than that the interface follows Apple's guidelines and is entirely intuitive (also note, I'm using Jaguar, not Windows. I'm not sure what it looks like with Windows).
Changing your dvd remote from black to silver or white does not change how easy it is to use (assuming you change the colour of the text as well). I think that's what I'm getting at - people criticise the iApps just because they're metallic. I don't have a problem with that - it's just designating them as a different kind of app IMO
Even my wife forgets the reason we laughed at Mac people from time immemorial: the monopoly. MS is evil because of theirs, but Apple is somehow kinder? Okay, their upgrade schedule isn't as fast as MS' but you also have to buy all their hardware. I resent the idea of Winmodems, but at least the money doesn't stay with MS. Open hardware is important for consumers, too.
oh, ok.
Monopoly. Like Apple has been convicted by a US court for being a monopoly? Or, have they even been taken to task by the DoJ?
No, funny that.
And buy all their "non-open" hardware? Well, last I checked, my machine was using industry standard RAM on an industry standard hard drive displaying on an industry standard video card and connected using industry standard USB and Firewire.
Oh wait, you mean I have to buy the computer the first time from Apple? Yep, that's what happens if you want a box from a tier 1 vendor. But don't tell me the hardware's not open, and that you have to buy it all from Apple.
I realise that. And it's not only available to 'digital hub apps' - you can get most applications to use it with some minor hacking.
It's still a textbook example of what not to do, and a very bad decision from Apple.
see, here I disagree with you. You know how consumer "white goods" are almost always white (like fridges and washing machines) but hifi equipment and TVs are almost always black or silver? I think it's the exact same thing.
Apple has taken a paradigm and applied it to the desktop. Again. It makes sense, when you think about it.
anybody else reminded of the "Pepsi Challenge" by this? the consumers always picked the pepsi when blindfolded and handed coke and pepsi, but when they went home, what did they keep buying?
I agree with you mostly. But not entirely, of course.
Quicktime and iTunes, well, you admit they are screwed up, but you discount it. It's a major black-eye to Apple in terms of their credibility with developers when they violate their own rules so flagrantly. QT and iTunes are the motes that Apple needs plucked out of their own eye before they criticise anyone else. Really, they're textbook examples of what NOT to do, and they're flagship applications!
There is a reason for this. The "brushed metal" interface is available for "digital hub" apps. That means iTunes, iPhoto, QuickTime, etc
Slashdot Mirror
my recommendation for a mod that will make the computer "dead" silent - take out the power supply
-- james
Yep.
You sure as helllook like it.
-- james
You're entitled to your opinion.
However, I say to you the word "Switch" - what do you think of, immediately? The damn word is about to enter the common vernacular, and every time it's used - people will think of Apple.
I argue they're effective... do a search on google for Ellen Feiss!
MS's looks like a parody because their behaviour is so stupid - a direct copy of a competitor's ad? The thing is, parodies aren't written in MS-market droid happy-speak. This one is. There's nothing intentionally funny about it; all that's funny is the fact that MS - with a marketing budget how many times bigger than that of Apple - could only come up with a cheap copy, written by somebody on their payroll. We're not laughing with them, we're laughing at them.
It's funny how that MS regrets posting the ad. There's three pages worth of
I think you might be able to get a job at the same place the MS "freelance writer" works.
They're not idiots, they're ordinary people. That's the whole point. They don't post on
Well, I have administered and supported both macs and pcs (not linux) for quite some time, and let me say this - the only time I've ever needed to format a HD on a mac was when the computer was being sold. The same could not be said for a PC; Windows would die at a prodigious rate.
funny how Apple repeatedly comes out on top in user satisfaction surveys and lowest TCO. If what you say is true, and the mac is nothing more than a placebo, how do you explain these reports?
No, in your mind, they are idiots. In my mind, they are ordinary people just trying to go about their lives. They had a positive experience with a computer, and wanted to share it.
You're the idiot for just passing it off.
-- james
Yep, it seems the grasshopper fits into the category of "most desktop users".
-- james
Yeah, I can just see tomorrow's version of this story:
""The AP tracked down the switcher and spoke with her: she's an employee at a Microsoft public relations firm, but she says she actually did switch from Mac to Windows after MS offered her free hardware, and threatened the PR firm with loss of contract in the event she contradicted their fake story.
After threats of termination of job, and physical harm against her family, Mallison relented and agreed to corroborate the article."
-- james
That's not just some girl, that's Ellen Feiss! Don't talk about Ellen like that!
Only when on a Windows network
MS copying it, making Apple look like fools?
Oooh, I like your logic. Apple makes ads. Microsoft makes ads exactly like Apple. Apple looks like fools?
Uh uh buddy, it's the other way around. MS are the fools... unoriginal fools too!
-- james
You forgot a line.
Microsoft: Bitch!
-- james
sounds like he's in for a transfer to the audit department.
-- james
and if Anakin's anything to go by, the fewer the better
-- james
You're looking at it the wrong way. At the moment, there are two OS vendors that make OSs designed for consumers to use with digital media - music, pictures, movies, etc. It's not MS vs all the other OS vendors - it's Apple vs MS. Those are the only two vendors that really count as far as DRM in the consumer space (which is what we're talking about).
There's MS in one corner - pandering to the RIAA and MPAA - and Apple in the other, giving the beforenamed organisations the royal two-fingered salute.
I know which side of the fence I'd rather be sitting on.
-- james
one of the passengers on one of the planes that came down on 9/11 (it was the one that crashed in the field, IIRC) was a founder of Akamai Networks, one of the load sharing/distribution companies that allow bandwidth to scale according to demand. As his plane came down, his company was entering one of the most demanding days in its history, as more people were targeting news sites at once than ever before.
It's organisations like that which will assist in the next big news item.
-- james
because what Teledesic could have offered has so much potential.
Apart from the fact that you save wiring up hundreds of countries that cannot afford it - and hence provide internet access to millions upon millions of people that previously could not get online - but what's more, for those of us road warriors, it could have been a godsend.
Yeah, it's all very well to have broadband internet - but it's only available at your desk! What happens if you're out in the field and you want to send/stream a movie back to base? At the moment, it's damn hard (and expensive) to do it... but allow for this to take off, everywhere you go, fast internet. Teledesic is to the internet what the mobile phone is to voice telephony.
I know there are still latency issues to work out, but eventually it could become like many households (especially students) where there are no landline phones, just mobiles - instead of having a fixed, wired access point, everybody has wireless, move anywhere mobile access... anywhere in the world.
I'm sure it'll happen, but minus the backing of the big guns like Gates et co, it may take a while longer.
-- james
At the last macworld, Steve Jobs demo'd his new "Rendezvous" zero configuration networking technology coupled with iTunes. Somebody on stage opened a laptop connected to the network via airport, all their songs showed up on Steve's computer. He could play any of them.
The laptop was put to sleep - the songs disappeared. Opened the laptop - bang, there they were again.
Pretty cool, even for Apple
-- james
That's what I find so fascinating about the whole MS thing - by and large, they're a bunch of highly effective morons. Obviously, there are some very intelligent coders in there (there'd have to be to get that mess known as windows to run on anything), but by and large their strategy is totally reactionary, and all they seem to know how to do is totally whack competitors. Nothing original or useful.
Yet look at their position in the market. I find it incredible.
-- james
One OS to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them... :)
-- james
where there's a damn about to burst, and it keeps springing leaks. All they do is stick their fingers in the leaks... eventually, they run out of fingers, and start using toes. Then the toes run out.
Eventually Microsoft will run out of digits (as in the fingers & toes). If you want to keep a system secure, you can't be reactionary. You can't wait for a leak to spring up, and then stick a finger in it.
And that's part of the whole problem with the MS culture - it's not a problem until it's exploited. Then you fix it. This is the best reason I can give you as to why not to use MS products. 'Cause they don't give a fuck until something's seriously broken. And then, it's too damn late.
-- james
I agree. And it's gonna take a lot of artists (and influential ones at that, too) to get something done about it.
I thought this was going to be more hot air, then I saw the list of who was backing the Recording Artists Coalition:
There's a few heavyweights in there, and a fair few middleweights too. They will be heard - I just hope they don't get a whole heap of concessions but still leave the consumer out in the cold.
I would seriously love to see the end of the RIAA, but there's so much money involved, it ain't gonna be easy to get rid of them. Who would roll over when you have one of the most lucrative monopolies in the history of mankind?
Ditto for MPAA.
-- james
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, once stated that the record business is the only industry in which the bank still owns the house after the mortgage is paid.
bingo!
-- james
And remember, this was last year. The year when the collective "intelligence" agencies in the US took an absolute beating for failing to catch the biggest terrorist act in history. Politicians, press, public... everyone came down on them like a tonne of bricks!
If they weren't tapping last year, let me guarantee you they're gonna be tapping left, right and centre this year.
-- james
it's nice to have these running debates way after the topics off the main page. thanks for the chat, Arker.
I still dispute that QT6, iTunes, etc has a poor interface, or even a non-standard one. It has a non-standard background - yep, it's silver instead of white (or whatever) - but other than that the interface follows Apple's guidelines and is entirely intuitive (also note, I'm using Jaguar, not Windows. I'm not sure what it looks like with Windows).
Changing your dvd remote from black to silver or white does not change how easy it is to use (assuming you change the colour of the text as well). I think that's what I'm getting at - people criticise the iApps just because they're metallic. I don't have a problem with that - it's just designating them as a different kind of app IMO
-- james
oh, ok.
Monopoly. Like Apple has been convicted by a US court for being a monopoly? Or, have they even been taken to task by the DoJ?
No, funny that.
And buy all their "non-open" hardware? Well, last I checked, my machine was using industry standard RAM on an industry standard hard drive displaying on an industry standard video card and connected using industry standard USB and Firewire.
Oh wait, you mean I have to buy the computer the first time from Apple? Yep, that's what happens if you want a box from a tier 1 vendor. But don't tell me the hardware's not open, and that you have to buy it all from Apple.
Because you don't.
-- james
see, here I disagree with you. You know how consumer "white goods" are almost always white (like fridges and washing machines) but hifi equipment and TVs are almost always black or silver? I think it's the exact same thing.
Apple has taken a paradigm and applied it to the desktop. Again. It makes sense, when you think about it.
-- james
anybody else reminded of the "Pepsi Challenge" by this? the consumers always picked the pepsi when blindfolded and handed coke and pepsi, but when they went home, what did they keep buying?
hint: it wasn't pepsi.
-- james
There is a reason for this. The "brushed metal" interface is available for "digital hub" apps. That means iTunes, iPhoto, QuickTime, etc
There is an interface standard for it.
-- james
I take it you think he'll get a second term then?
-- james