Umm.. I listen to music full blast on my bike, And I would suggest against trying to run me off the road.
Of course, Its a 1200cc Harley with performance pipes, So its not like listing to headphones is exactly blocking out important noises.
If someone in a car can talk on a celphone, why cant someone on a bike listen to music ? Technically, a bicycle is considered a vehicle, and they ARE allowed on public roads.
If a person on a bike wants to take up the lane on a street , they are allowed to as long as they have mirrors on the bike, etc.
at least we can now acertain that the government isn't REALLY serious about this issue.
I mean.. the words security and Microsoft are pretty much polar opposites - unless your talking about cash reserves.
Re:Amazing new technology called reading
on
New Linux PVR Box
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· Score: 1
Hmm . yes.. because no one here might use a ReplayTV or Tivo to record things on PBS or the history channel.
No one might actually use a device to watch higher quality tv.. as opposed to the crap that the networks throw at us during prime time and expect us to like.. or not.. it doesnt matter.. thats whats on.
With this post your insinuating that folks who, gasp, watch tv . or even worse.. want to intelligantly PLAN what tv they want to watch.. are idiots.
Personally, I read 2-3 books a week.. easy.. and I still dig the history channel.
As far as PVRs go your missing the whole point.
With my ReplayTV, I can record the shows I want to watch.. to be watched when I have the time to. Meaning I don't have to waste idiot time waiting for the current show to end.. etc. I don't have to watch friends reruns at 7:30 because thats the only time i have free to turn the tv on. I can watch what I want to watch , when I want to watch it.
Of course, the usefullness of this is a lot less when you have gov't sponsored TV. or 4 (now five) channels.
Are they a lawless country where small children need to carry arms ? [thus making U.S. / U.N. / English presence there GOOD ?]
Or was it a perfectly happy country [flaunting U.N. declarations - which wasn't committing genocide against their own population based on heradatory / religious beliefs] ?
Sorry, but children should not have any need to be walking around with assult rifles. U.S. presence did not cause this, in fact - U.S. / U.N. troops are *DISPERSING* food to people who were not able to get food previously.
It sounds like you have never actually LEFT the country before. Ever been to Somolia ? Ever been there BEFORE the U.S. began police actions there ?
Iraq is a VERY wealthy country in comparison, explain to me why there was mass areas of the country that were starving ? If the 'government' there was so good that the U.S. had no need to aid in it being overthrown - why has it historically killed off its own population ? Why were vast (and the numerically larger) sections of its population denied representation in its government ?
If I were to carry this to the rediculious extremes, I would suggest (ala Thomas Swift) that you were proposing Republicans and Democrats should be shooting at each other instead of fighting on the political level. Of course I know you are not suggesting that.. just bringing a little sarcastic eye-opener to the table.
While the tite-wad portion of my mind says 'There is no need to spend our money helping these people - why are we funding a military action there?' I have just enough liberal in me to be offended by a 'government' that funnels all the proceeds from selling its *COUNTRY'S* natural resources into the pockets of a few people. [While the vast majority of its population not only lives in horrible conditions, but has to deal with the by-products of EXTRACTING said resources too boot.]
Throw into that the fact they can influence a WORLD economy by fluxuating oil supplies - and you have something that really *IS* a world wide issue.
How comfortable would YOU be giving the keys to *your* bank account to the guy down the street who is a habitiual gambler.
Now how comfortable are you giving the largest oil reserves (which *many* countries are dependant on, and whose economies can be destroyed by market manipulation of said oil.) into the hands of a veritable psycho ? Someone who knows they can destroy the world economy simply because they are having a bad day, but doesn't seem to understand that *WORLD* economy means just that.. everyone is affected. [including them.]
I dunno.. seems to me, that out to make a lot more people upset than it does. I for one LIKE having a stable and fairly well off world economy.
Not to mention they are generally protreyd as SAVING lives (hostages etc) than evil midless killing of civilians.
But otherwise i mostly agree with you.. the fact that these kids might have played a violent video game has about as much to do with their choice of expression as a bowling class in colombine.
I would say, that full blown media coverage of other related events had more to do with shaping their plans than 'vice city'.
After all.. the news is 'FACT' not 'ENTERTAINMENT' right ?
I believe thats what gatekeep's (and ultimatly my)point was.
Your reporting something that was broke a weeks ago - that you know is fixed - and making it sound like something that will still be there at launch.
Everyone is pointing fingers and shouting at folks who.. god forbid.. LIKE this game. Fanboy, 'appologist' stuff like that, but its pretty easy (and no one disbelieves you) if you point out something wrong. Its easy to point out something wrong. I can point out things that are wrong all day:P hell.. im working (kinda) on a WINDOWS machine.. you do the math.
I simply don't see a reason to get out the burning crosses just because 'someone told someone somewhere that something was broken'. All I have been saying all morning (hell, for the past few weeks) is if your interested, try it.. don't listen to people you have never met, on a messageboard which isn't exactly known for lack of bandwagon jumpers.
I'm pretty sure Sony, the developers, and staff have a *HELL* of a lot more to loose if this game does bad. A few tens-of-millions of dollars, their jobs, their professional credability to name the first 3 that come to mind.
The last thing they need is tens of thousands of people who have never even SEEN the game to tell them and otherfolks whats wrong with it.
I'm sure they know there are still problems, and you can bet that they know its in their best interests to fix them.
You also have to remember this game was supposed to be out x-mas 2002. They are over schedule, and over budget. Some of the developers have even SAID they would love to have more time, after all.. *WHO* here couldn't spend more time tweaking a program they are attached to ? They have however, said they are confident that people will like the game.
One of the forgiving things about this genre is that these changes can actually be made on the fly.
People are complaining that some of the upper classes are not totally balanced.
Explain to me why something that will take you at least 2 weeks to get NEAR, needs to be balanced on day one, when no one will touch that profession for at least 2 weeks.
People complain that there are no spaceships. A *MINERAL HARVESTER* costs about 1000 credits a day to run, what is the upkeep on the mellinium falcon going to cost? And how many players could afford that on day 3 anyways ?
They have said the stuff is going to come, it will come. Why would someone 'officially' say that there will be an expansion shortly that includes this stuff.. and NOT produce? thats like comitting professional suicide.
If you were a project manager, would you tell your monkeys to work on server stability ? or making sure tailor's can make pink shirts ? Which.. overall.. is going to cause more problems with your clientel base ?
Maybe some stuff is unbalanced.. it will sort out eventually. EQ, which everyone loves to compare SWG to (even though they really are different kind of games) certainly had quite a few issues at launch.. I know, I was there.. I was actually in ALPHA for EQ.
That being said, there was also HUGE improvements in the last 2 weeks of EQ beta, and when the servers went live, with more improvements cranked out immediatly following launch.
this stuff evolves. SWG today at 2:00 during launch, will be totally different from SWG 1 year from now, just like Ultima Online today is nothing like Ultima Online 4 years ago.
Again, I agree with the folks that say if this stuff is pivitol to you playing, then by all means, wait. Wait until its done. Wait until you can buy a ship. Then buy in.
Me, I like it how it stands, and since everyone's consensus is that there is nowhere to go but up - even better:)
How can you form an opinion of a game thats not finished ?
Because betas are meant to give you the basic gist of a game. I was in The Frozen Throne beta, and while there was a lot of it that was broken, that needed work, that needed tweaking, it wasn't a miserable experience. It was fun and I had a good time.
Oh, wait. Did I just form an opinion on a game that wasn't even finished?"
While I agree with you personally.. SWG wasn't a miserable experience for me. Which is why im for it. I suppose hindsite, I should have said 'How can you form an opinion of what the final game will be, before its finished.' Since its very common for things to change RADICALLY during testing/production cycles.
However I do disagree in your definition of beta. Beta's are not meant to give you a gist of anything. Beta's are for testing. period. Evaluation copy's are to give you a gist. Demos are to give you a gist. Beta's are to get a select group of bug-chasers (code bugs.. not desert bugs *grin*) to fix loopholes in your code.
On the bright side, what it *does* sound like to me, is that you are the type of person who can seperate a beta test FROM a real game. Kudos, you can make an informed decision about something based on first hand evidance, and rationally.
Your a lot better off than most of the people who are jumping to conclusions or pouting in a corner because star wars isnt 100%, or because this game wasn't done how *they* envisioned it.
Sure the game isnt totally done, but of course, the whole design of it is thus that it doesn't HAVE to be 100% to start. MMORPG's can patch on a daily basis (assuming its small patches:P) if need be. things can be tweaked on the fly.
FINALLY:) someone who answered with their real name, and posted something more than just 'fanboi':)
What I am actually saying is, its very easy to write something negative about a beta, ANY beta, be it the newest version of windows, or an online game, especially if they loose track of WHY its a beta. Beta are for testing, reproducing, and fixing bugs. There will be times when things are deliberatly set up to break.
Its even easier when a LOT of the people writing them were not in beta, or never tested in beta. [And by that I mean they logged in, played for a while, and made their decision, they didn't test, they just wanted a preview.] I have seen a 1/2 a dozen posts on here alone that are from people who say they were in beta, and either havent logged in for about 4 months, or are 'misrepresenting' themselves just a bit, because the information they are taunting as 'gospel truth' is 180 degrees from real.
I do agree, last weekend, the game wasn't ready . However, that was some 240 hours ago. As any coder under a deadline knows, a LOT can be done in 240 hours if you have enough caffine.
There was a lot of stress testing over the past week where the developers, like any professional coder, delibertly BROKE things to see the impact.
Don't you stress test your code and put in errorchecks before you go to production ?
All I can say is, on the last night of beta, I went through all the bugs I reported, and tried to reproduce them. Off of my list of 15 showstoppers [containing evils like, permadeath, losing a ticket to endor that runs 2200 credits, exploits with skills, Exploits with stats. etc.] I couldn't reproduce ONE of them.. (and trust me.. I tried.)
Of my 2ndary list, yeah.. there were some. a few graphic bugs, some things with missions that will probally confuse a new player the first time it happens to them. Nothing that will halt your actually playing the game. And i'm sure that many of those have already been fixed.
Yes, posts were sometimes removed from the Beta boards, I distinctly rember users who would post the same thing in EVERY thread on the boards. Things like "Dood, my harvester is still broken, if you don't fix it, im not going to buy the game."
Saddly, I didn't meet my beta goal of capping an Ewok. Me and a few friends made it to Endor on the last night, but our new characters (the 4th ones that night.. we were testing a naming bug that happened when you deleted and re-created a character) couldn't handle it:P
Spoken from someone who was not in beta and has NO idea what they are talking about.
Folk, would you not see a movie because someone else who never saw the movie said 'well, my friend's sister's boyfriend knows a guy who saw it and he said it sucked.'
Why would anyone let someone ELSE form their opinion for them. Especially someone who is talking out of both sides.. so to speak:
"I'm also sure they will be turned off by the fact that becoming a Jedi is random, combat is boring from what I hear.."
This sentance establishes that they were not in beta. [not because becoming a jedi is random.. its not btw, but because they say they HEAR combat is boring.]
Now.. notice how this fellow tries to lend athority to his 'accurate' description of a game he has never seen:
"Also, the PVP is lame, Star Wars is about well WARS. It's more like Star Wars:Care Bear edition the way it is now."
He goes from hemmin`and-a-hawin` about how he *hears* the combat sucks.. then dives right into implying that he has enough (second hand?) information to make an informed decision that this ISNT a cool game.
[I wonder at the use of the word cool in the above sentance.. playing this game certainly won't make me cool *grin* and anything that will probally piss my wife off because I come to bed at 1:00 am probally isn't cool either.. I should have used the word 'fun' or 'addicting' instead:P]
So.. if you don't want to play this game.. thats ok.. no one is forcing you to.
I get a LOT of sour grapes vibes coming from all the negative posts though. they WANT to play, but everyone tells them the game isn't what *THEY* want. Which is funny, because until a week ago.. I never saw more than some 800 people online at any given time in the beta.. and ALL of them were under a very vicious NDA agreement.
Where the hell are all these sister's-brothers's-boyfriend's-younger brothers who were in beta ?
Yes, I think it will be a fun game based on the experiences I have had in Beta.
I base this on how I felt about UO after participating in the Ultima Online beta (same head developer btw.) and how the game progressed after it went live.
I also can compare it to how I felt about everquest after the EQ beta (i was actually in that one from alpha.. ack)
overall , the game is free flowing, camping is alsost impossible, and there is forced interaction between the players.
you are not 'stuck' in the profession that you pick as an uneducated new player.. like in everquest or Daoc. If you decide next month that you don't actually LIKE hair styling, then you can pick up a blaster and go on a few destroy missions.
Personally, I LIKE the game, I.. along with most of the beta testers who actually bothered to test for more than 2 days, pre-ordered my copy months ago.
Keep in mind, that until yesterday morning when the servers shut down, most of the people who LIKED the game, were in the game play testing it. Only the negative opinioned folks were out-and-about posting.
I can see that the Beta posting trolls, being denied access to the SWG:Beta boards, have migrated over here now.
I was in beta pretty much from the beginning, and while there were naysayers from the get go.. it was all constructive. It wasn't until the last phase of beta when they let all the shitheads in.
The people you hear griping about this game, while allowed their opinion, are also the people who were more intent on *PLAYING* the game in beta instead of testing, were the ones who would complain *BITTERLY* about the constant character wipes, and the folks who would *WHINE* on the development boards about how the Developers were hell-bent-out-to-get-them-by-ignoring-this-issue-w ith-(their character class)[dozens of !'s].
In the last 4 weeks of beta I saw *SO* many posts along the lines of 'if you don't do X, I'm not buying the game.' This was from the folks who when discovering a flaw in the game, would say 'hmm..ill just tuck *THIS* one away for later.'
In all honesty, SWG has the feel of Ultima Online more than EverQuest. Its open ended, there is no defined way to 'WIN' the game. It, like the theory behind ANY MMORPG exists so its fun to *play*.
Saddly, many folks were taught that level based games like EverQuest were the mold. And unless you have 'SuperSword, AwesomeArmour, and UberSkillX' your simply a looser.
Does SWG have bugs ? yes. Will they be fixed ? yes. Will new ones pop up ? yes. However the developers for this game have been more open and upfront about Star Wars Galaxies than in *ANY* other beta I have participated in. [And I have been in almost every MMORPG beta except Meridian59] They care about this project, most of them are HUGE fans of the films themselves, and they have been pulling 24 hour days ever since Sony Online Entertainment announced 'You have no more time.. finish it.'
All these sour grape X-Beta posts you are reading, are people who lost track of what they were supposed to be *DOING* in beta. Something im shocked to see people admitting on/. *TESTING* How can you form an opinion of a game thats not finished ?
yeah.. just some php knocked together. I originally wrote it just to keep track of which books I had read out of the piles around the house, and it turned into one of those 'Well.. while i'm at it' projects.
However, that particular book in question was an enjoyable read. Was it written by a meglomaniac nutjob ? sure - was still a good read.
I read the l.ron hubbard stuff before I had ever heard about scientology, and I would like to think that even HAD I known about that "religion" I would have still read his books.
Seems pretty backwards to *NOT* read something because of your political views.
Of course, thats seems just about as pointless as not wanting to take credit for your opinion.
im with you.. the days when IRC was a new toy are long gone my friend:(
And honestly, as much as I make my living off the web [webmonkey] and have for years.. I can't help but feel more and more slime pass under my fingers as the time goes on.
although im an early to mid 90's bally's guy myself. [http://www.remsbox.com/index.php?content=00000000 08 and http://www.remsbox.com/showPhoto.php?album=Addams% 20Family%20Gold] More because thats what *I* played growing up.
of course, that lead me into finishing our basement [ http://www.remsbox.com/showPhoto.php?album=House%2 0and%20Home ] which reminded me that I like to woodwork:P
Honestly, I enjoy hacking away at code just like anyone else, but sometimes you just HAVE to unplug, and working with your hands is the yang to working with math in your head.
"Once there, he tried to listen to his new acquisition, using his Titanium laptop which runs version 10.2 of Apple's operating system. There was no response, with the disc not being recognised.
One can't blame Marovitch for not trying - he tried to listen to the disc on a workstation which runs Windows 2000 and then on one which runs Windows XP.
In both cases, he got no joy. The disc was not picked up by the system. "
from EMI:
"As the technology was created to be played through its own embedded player on the CD itself and not any other player that is currently available to the PC/Apple, it will cause anomalies if played in any other manner."
Now.. could someone explain to EMI how hard it is to use an embedded player on the CD itself when your computer system cant even see the CD ?
Actually.. markups only ranged from 20% - 45% and.. the majority of that markup goes to overhead.
At its best, my store was making 10-12% profit off the gross sales receipts. [Which, for all you 'give me everything free' folks out there, is very good for retail.]
Technically, your arguement [your going to LOVE this] is correct.. initially.
In a Brick & Morter vs Brick & Morter fight. I would ALMOST say it is healthy. [Which is why you see McDonalds and Burger Kings less than 1 block apart, sometimes NEXTDOOR.]
Prices drop due to fierce competition, internet stores / websites could sell at 50% off retail, and the consumer TOTALLY won.
Now.. lets look 8-12 months down the line. Most of the internet guys are dead in the water. Their sales were not enough to maintain their interest (as only some 45% of the country is wired anyways), or their business plans were simply not thought out - no one can sell at 50% off and make money, even selling out of their basement. ESPECIALLY when markups average 35% ish. MAYBE 1 out of 10 of them is still around, or the attrition rate maintains a steady number of fly-by-night stores which no one has confidence in.
Many of the retail game stores hit the rocks. Since markup to profit ratios are fairly low,and virtually all of them are s-corp or sole propritorships, any hit to a non established game/hobby store is going to be very hard to recover from. lets say out of every 10 stores, 4 died because the owners made bad decisions, and another 4 died because of loss of sales either due to other brick & morters, or internet sales. So out of the 2 left, they were either established stores, or someone in there was really paying attention.
How does this benifit the end consumer ?
8 towns (the ones where the brick and morter stores went under) no longer have game/hobby stores. 95% of the internet stores are dead or the turnover is so high that you never know if your going to actually GET the product. So 8 towns full of kids can't get the stuff anymore.
Great.. yeah.. that helps consumers. It always helps when you can't buy something you want.
There are 2 other phenonimums that follow this chain of events.
'Special order stores' are retail stores that have no money, (for whatever reason) or don't have the faith or balls to compete with folks who are fly-by-night discounting. So they basically have a number of catalogs behind the counter. If you try to buy something that the owner isnt personally intereted in [and thus stocks] they say 'we don't have that.. but we can order it for you.' Some of these folks are REALLY generous, and offer to only take 25-50% of the product cost upfront.
Yeah, I personally LOVE when I need to buy something, and no one actually *HAS* it on their shelf. If I'm in your store with $$ in my pocket, I wan't it NOW.. not 4 weeks from now when your order comes in.
The other (and ironic) thing that happens, is someone notices that the internet stores die because they don't make any profit (Gee.. does this sound familiar poindexter?) and they decide to have a go at actually making money.. AND DECIDE TO CHARGE FULL RETAIL PLUS SHIPPING!
So.. now the 8 kids in those towns (remember, the ones where the stores went under? ) can get stuff again, they just pay the prices they paid before, and shipping of course, oh . and they have to wait a week or so till it shows up, and can only pray that no one at the shipping company messes up, because they don't actually get to *PICK UP* the product themselves.
I can lecture you on how this causes attrition in hobbies and games at another time.. impulse / discover sales vs. established market sales.
SO.. we went full circle (this is history folks, not theory) and now
Slashdot Mirror
Someone should mention that to DirectTV too.
Umm .. I listen to music full blast on my bike, And I would suggest against trying to run me off the road.
Of course, Its a 1200cc Harley with performance pipes, So its not like listing to headphones is exactly blocking out important noises.
If someone in a car can talk on a celphone, why cant someone on a bike listen to music ? Technically, a bicycle is considered a vehicle, and they ARE allowed on public roads.
If a person on a bike wants to take up the lane on a street , they are allowed to as long as they have mirrors on the bike, etc.
Put an actor that makes 20+ million per movie up on the screen to lecture how movie piracy hurts everyone.
That ought to win over the majority of the american public, especially the ones that go to matinee films because they are $1 cheaper.
Their PR rep needs some more time off.
Even better, explain to me how this ad campaign is going to stop our friends in Hong Kong from ending thier 20 long streak of movie piracy.
at least we can now acertain that the government isn't REALLY serious about this issue.
.. the words security and Microsoft are pretty much polar opposites - unless your talking about cash reserves.
I mean
Hmm . yes .. because no one here might use a ReplayTV or Tivo to record things on PBS or the history channel.
.. as opposed to the crap that the networks throw at us during prime time and expect us to like .. or not .. it doesnt matter .. thats whats on.
.. want to intelligantly PLAN what tv they want to watch .. are idiots.
.. easy .. and I still dig the history channel.
.. to be watched when I have the time to. Meaning I don't have to waste idiot time waiting for the current show to end .. etc. I don't have to watch friends reruns at 7:30 because thats the only time i have free to turn the tv on. I can watch what I want to watch , when I want to watch it.
No one might actually use a device to watch higher quality tv
With this post your insinuating that folks who, gasp, watch tv . or even worse
Personally, I read 2-3 books a week
As far as PVRs go your missing the whole point.
With my ReplayTV, I can record the shows I want to watch
Of course, the usefullness of this is a lot less when you have gov't sponsored TV. or 4 (now five) channels.
So .. which way do you want it ?
.. just bringing a little sarcastic eye-opener to the table.
.. everyone is affected. [including them.]
.. seems to me, that out to make a lot more people upset than it does. I for one LIKE having a stable and fairly well off world economy.
Are they a lawless country where small children need to carry arms ? [thus making U.S. / U.N. / English presence there GOOD ?]
Or was it a perfectly happy country [flaunting U.N. declarations - which wasn't committing genocide against their own population based on heradatory / religious beliefs] ?
Sorry, but children should not have any need to be walking around with assult rifles. U.S. presence did not cause this, in fact - U.S. / U.N. troops are *DISPERSING* food to people who were not able to get food previously.
It sounds like you have never actually LEFT the country before. Ever been to Somolia ? Ever been there BEFORE the U.S. began police actions there ?
Iraq is a VERY wealthy country in comparison, explain to me why there was mass areas of the country that were starving ? If the 'government' there was so good that the U.S. had no need to aid in it being overthrown - why has it historically killed off its own population ? Why were vast (and the numerically larger) sections of its population denied representation in its government ?
If I were to carry this to the rediculious extremes, I would suggest (ala Thomas Swift) that you were proposing Republicans and Democrats should be shooting at each other instead of fighting on the political level. Of course I know you are not suggesting that
While the tite-wad portion of my mind says 'There is no need to spend our money helping these people - why are we funding a military action there?' I have just enough liberal in me to be offended by a 'government' that funnels all the proceeds from selling its *COUNTRY'S* natural resources into the pockets of a few people. [While the vast majority of its population not only lives in horrible conditions, but has to deal with the by-products of EXTRACTING said resources too boot.]
Throw into that the fact they can influence a WORLD economy by fluxuating oil supplies - and you have something that really *IS* a world wide issue.
How comfortable would YOU be giving the keys to *your* bank account to the guy down the street who is a habitiual gambler.
Now how comfortable are you giving the largest oil reserves (which *many* countries are dependant on, and whose economies can be destroyed by market manipulation of said oil.) into the hands of a veritable psycho ? Someone who knows they can destroy the world economy simply because they are having a bad day, but doesn't seem to understand that *WORLD* economy means just that
I dunno
are teams .. not one kid :P
.. the fact that these kids might have played a violent video game has about as much to do with their choice of expression as a bowling class in colombine.
.. the news is 'FACT' not 'ENTERTAINMENT' right ?
Not to mention they are generally protreyd as SAVING lives (hostages etc) than evil midless killing of civilians.
But otherwise i mostly agree with you
I would say, that full blown media coverage of other related events had more to do with shaping their plans than 'vice city'.
After all
of course .. that webpage fails to note that many 14 year old boys in said countries walk around carrying ASSULT RIFLES !
.. but hey, maybe they shouldn't be shooting as us.
Or that women and children are being used to KILL U.S. military in gurila actions.
Sure, maybe we shuouldn't be there
Pacifism has to work both ways to be effective, otherwise its just a liberal pipe dream.
I believe thats what gatekeep's (and ultimatly my)point was.
.. god forbid .. LIKE this game. Fanboy, 'appologist' stuff like that, but its pretty easy (and no one disbelieves you) if you point out something wrong. Its easy to point out something wrong. I can point out things that are wrong all day :P hell .. im working (kinda) on a WINDOWS machine .. you do the math.
.. don't listen to people you have never met, on a messageboard which isn't exactly known for lack of bandwagon jumpers.
.. *WHO* here couldn't spend more time tweaking a program they are attached to ? They have however, said they are confident that people will like the game.
.. and NOT produce? thats like comitting professional suicide.
.. overall .. is going to cause more problems with your clientel base ?
.. it will sort out eventually. EQ, which everyone loves to compare SWG to (even though they really are different kind of games) certainly had quite a few issues at launch .. I know, I was there .. I was actually in ALPHA for EQ.
:)
Your reporting something that was broke a weeks ago - that you know is fixed - and making it sound like something that will still be there at launch.
Everyone is pointing fingers and shouting at folks who
I simply don't see a reason to get out the burning crosses just because 'someone told someone somewhere that something was broken'. All I have been saying all morning (hell, for the past few weeks) is if your interested, try it
I'm pretty sure Sony, the developers, and staff have a *HELL* of a lot more to loose if this game does bad. A few tens-of-millions of dollars, their jobs, their professional credability to name the first 3 that come to mind.
The last thing they need is tens of thousands of people who have never even SEEN the game to tell them and otherfolks whats wrong with it.
I'm sure they know there are still problems, and you can bet that they know its in their best interests to fix them.
You also have to remember this game was supposed to be out x-mas 2002. They are over schedule, and over budget. Some of the developers have even SAID they would love to have more time, after all
One of the forgiving things about this genre is that these changes can actually be made on the fly.
People are complaining that some of the upper classes are not totally balanced.
Explain to me why something that will take you at least 2 weeks to get NEAR, needs to be balanced on day one, when no one will touch that profession for at least 2 weeks.
People complain that there are no spaceships.
A *MINERAL HARVESTER* costs about 1000 credits a day to run, what is the upkeep on the mellinium falcon going to cost? And how many players could afford that on day 3 anyways ?
They have said the stuff is going to come, it will come. Why would someone 'officially' say that there will be an expansion shortly that includes this stuff
If you were a project manager, would you tell your monkeys to work on server stability ? or making sure tailor's can make pink shirts ? Which
Maybe some stuff is unbalanced
That being said, there was also HUGE improvements in the last 2 weeks of EQ beta, and when the servers went live, with more improvements cranked out immediatly following launch.
this stuff evolves. SWG today at 2:00 during launch, will be totally different from SWG 1 year from now, just like Ultima Online today is nothing like Ultima Online 4 years ago.
Again, I agree with the folks that say if this stuff is pivitol to you playing, then by all means, wait. Wait until its done. Wait until you can buy a ship. Then buy in.
Me, I like it how it stands, and since everyone's consensus is that there is nowhere to go but up - even better
"This was the best part:
.. SWG wasn't a miserable experience for me. Which is why im for it. I suppose hindsite, I should have said 'How can you form an opinion of what the final game will be, before its finished.' Since its very common for things to change RADICALLY during testing/production cycles.
.. not desert bugs *grin*) to fix loopholes in your code.
:P) if need be. things can be tweaked on the fly.
How can you form an opinion of a game thats not finished ?
Because betas are meant to give you the basic gist of a game. I was in The Frozen Throne beta, and while there was a lot of it that was broken, that needed work, that needed tweaking, it wasn't a miserable experience. It was fun and I had a good time.
Oh, wait. Did I just form an opinion on a game that wasn't even finished?"
While I agree with you personally
However I do disagree in your definition of beta. Beta's are not meant to give you a gist of anything. Beta's are for testing. period. Evaluation copy's are to give you a gist. Demos are to give you a gist. Beta's are to get a select group of bug-chasers (code bugs
On the bright side, what it *does* sound like to me, is that you are the type of person who can seperate a beta test FROM a real game. Kudos, you can make an informed decision about something based on first hand evidance, and rationally.
Your a lot better off than most of the people who are jumping to conclusions or pouting in a corner because star wars isnt 100%, or because this game wasn't done how *they* envisioned it.
Sure the game isnt totally done, but of course, the whole design of it is thus that it doesn't HAVE to be 100% to start. MMORPG's can patch on a daily basis (assuming its small patches
And during the day I post on a website that has the tagline 'news for nerds'
.. its like shooting fish in a barrel.
man
FINALLY :) someone who answered with their real name, and posted something more than just 'fanboi' :)
.. (and trust me .. I tried.)
.. there were some. a few graphic bugs, some things with missions that will probally confuse a new player the first time it happens to them. Nothing that will halt your actually playing the game. And i'm sure that many of those have already been fixed.
.. we were testing a naming bug that happened when you deleted and re-created a character) couldn't handle it :P
What I am actually saying is, its very easy to write something negative about a beta, ANY beta, be it the newest version of windows, or an online game, especially if they loose track of WHY its a beta. Beta are for testing, reproducing, and fixing bugs. There will be times when things are deliberatly set up to break.
Its even easier when a LOT of the people writing them were not in beta, or never tested in beta. [And by that I mean they logged in, played for a while, and made their decision, they didn't test, they just wanted a preview.] I have seen a 1/2 a dozen posts on here alone that are from people who say they were in beta, and either havent logged in for about 4 months, or are 'misrepresenting' themselves just a bit, because the information they are taunting as 'gospel truth' is 180 degrees from real.
I do agree, last weekend, the game wasn't ready . However, that was some 240 hours ago. As any coder under a deadline knows, a LOT can be done in 240 hours if you have enough caffine.
There was a lot of stress testing over the past week where the developers, like any professional coder, delibertly BROKE things to see the impact.
Don't you stress test your code and put in errorchecks before you go to production ?
All I can say is, on the last night of beta, I went through all the bugs I reported, and tried to reproduce them. Off of my list of 15 showstoppers [containing evils like, permadeath, losing a ticket to endor that runs 2200 credits, exploits with skills, Exploits with stats. etc.]
I couldn't reproduce ONE of them
Of my 2ndary list, yeah
Yes, posts were sometimes removed from the Beta boards, I distinctly rember users who would post the same thing in EVERY thread on the boards. Things like "Dood, my harvester is still broken, if you don't fix it, im not going to buy the game."
Saddly, I didn't meet my beta goal of capping an Ewok. Me and a few friends made it to Endor on the last night, but our new characters (the 4th ones that night
Spoken from someone who was not in beta and has NO idea what they are talking about.
.. so to speak:
.."
.. its not btw, but because they say they HEAR combat is boring.]
.. notice how this fellow tries to lend athority to his 'accurate' description of a game he has never seen:
.. then dives right into implying that he has enough (second hand?) information to make an informed decision that this ISNT a cool game.
.. playing this game certainly won't make me cool *grin* and anything that will probally piss my wife off because I come to bed at 1:00 am probally isn't cool either .. I should have used the word 'fun' or 'addicting' instead :P]
.. if you don't want to play this game .. thats ok .. no one is forcing you to.
.. I never saw more than some 800 people online at any given time in the beta .. and ALL of them were under a very vicious NDA agreement.
Folk, would you not see a movie because someone else who never saw the movie said 'well, my friend's sister's boyfriend knows a guy who saw it and he said it sucked.'
Why would anyone let someone ELSE form their opinion for them. Especially someone who is talking out of both sides
"I'm also sure they will be turned off by the fact that becoming a Jedi is random, combat is boring from what I hear
This sentance establishes that they were not in beta. [not because becoming a jedi is random
Now
"Also, the PVP is lame, Star Wars is about well WARS. It's more like Star Wars:Care Bear edition the way it is now."
He goes from hemmin`and-a-hawin` about how he *hears* the combat sucks
[I wonder at the use of the word cool in the above sentance
So
I get a LOT of sour grapes vibes coming from all the negative posts though. they WANT to play, but everyone tells them the game isn't what *THEY* want. Which is funny, because until a week ago
Where the hell are all these sister's-brothers's-boyfriend's-younger brothers who were in beta ?
Yes, I think it will be a fun game based on the experiences I have had in Beta.
.. ack)
.. like in everquest or Daoc. If you decide next month that you don't actually LIKE hair styling, then you can pick up a blaster and go on a few destroy missions.
.. along with most of the beta testers who actually bothered to test for more than 2 days, pre-ordered my copy months ago.
I base this on how I felt about UO after participating in the Ultima Online beta (same head developer btw.) and how the game progressed after it went live.
I also can compare it to how I felt about everquest after the EQ beta (i was actually in that one from alpha
overall , the game is free flowing, camping is alsost impossible, and there is forced interaction between the players.
you are not 'stuck' in the profession that you pick as an uneducated new player
Personally, I LIKE the game, I
Keep in mind, that until yesterday morning when the servers shut down, most of the people who LIKED the game, were in the game play testing it. Only the negative opinioned folks were out-and-about posting.
I can see that the Beta posting trolls, being denied access to the SWG:Beta boards, have migrated over here now.
.. it was all constructive. It wasn't until the last phase of beta when they let all the shitheads in.
w ith-(their character class)[dozens of !'s].
..ill just tuck *THIS* one away for later.'
.. finish it.'
/. *TESTING*
I was in beta pretty much from the beginning, and while there were naysayers from the get go
The people you hear griping about this game, while allowed their opinion, are also the people who were more intent on *PLAYING* the game in beta instead of testing, were the ones who would complain *BITTERLY* about the constant character wipes, and the folks who would *WHINE* on the development boards about how the Developers were hell-bent-out-to-get-them-by-ignoring-this-issue-
In the last 4 weeks of beta I saw *SO* many posts along the lines of 'if you don't do X, I'm not buying the game.' This was from the folks who when discovering a flaw in the game, would say 'hmm
In all honesty, SWG has the feel of Ultima Online more than EverQuest. Its open ended, there is no defined way to 'WIN' the game. It, like the theory behind ANY MMORPG exists so its fun to *play*.
Saddly, many folks were taught that level based games like EverQuest were the mold. And unless you have 'SuperSword, AwesomeArmour, and UberSkillX' your simply a looser.
Does SWG have bugs ? yes. Will they be fixed ? yes. Will new ones pop up ? yes. However the developers for this game have been more open and upfront about Star Wars Galaxies than in *ANY* other beta I have participated in. [And I have been in almost every MMORPG beta except Meridian59] They care about this project, most of them are HUGE fans of the films themselves, and they have been pulling 24 hour days ever since Sony Online Entertainment announced 'You have no more time
All these sour grape X-Beta posts you are reading, are people who lost track of what they were supposed to be *DOING* in beta. Something im shocked to see people admitting on
How can you form an opinion of a game thats not finished ?
yeah .. just some php knocked together. I originally wrote it just to keep track of which books I had read out of the piles around the house, and it turned into one of those 'Well .. while i'm at it' projects.
Yeah .. my karma fearing kiblitzer,
like I said, not everyone agrees with me.
However, that particular book in question was an enjoyable read. Was it written by a meglomaniac nutjob ? sure - was still a good read.
I read the l.ron hubbard stuff before I had ever heard about scientology, and I would like to think that even HAD I known about that "religion" I would have still read his books.
Seems pretty backwards to *NOT* read something because of your political views.
Of course, thats seems just about as pointless as not wanting to take credit for your opinion.
Not sure really, something about that book made me really get into the characters. And I remembered it as being very good.
.. It had been some time :P
as anything I read before Feb 2002 was going off of memory
I read alot. :P
:)
I rank the books I read on a 1-10 scale.
Not everyone agrees with me
http://www.remsbox.com/showBooks.php
might give you some ideas if nothing else.
im with you .. the days when IRC was a new toy are long gone my friend :(
.. I can't help but feel more and more slime pass under my fingers as the time goes on.
And honestly, as much as I make my living off the web [webmonkey] and have for years
hell yeah brother :)
0 08 and http://www.remsbox.com/showPhoto.php?album=Addams% 20Family%20Gold] More because thats what *I* played growing up.
2 0and%20Home ] which reminded me that I like to woodwork :P
although im an early to mid 90's bally's guy myself. [http://www.remsbox.com/index.php?content=0000000
of course, that lead me into finishing our basement [ http://www.remsbox.com/showPhoto.php?album=House%
Honestly, I enjoy hacking away at code just like anyone else, but sometimes you just HAVE to unplug, and working with your hands is the yang to working with math in your head.
I don't see how this changes your opinion of Ronald Regan :)
Puts the phrase Web-Monkey in a whole new light .. don't it ?
*thanks folks, i'm here all night.*
from the report:
:
.. could someone explain to EMI how hard it is to use an embedded player on the CD itself when your computer system cant even see the CD ?
"Once there, he tried to listen to his new acquisition, using his Titanium laptop which runs version 10.2 of Apple's operating system. There was no response, with the disc not being recognised.
One can't blame Marovitch for not trying - he tried to listen to the disc on a workstation which runs Windows 2000 and then on one which runs Windows XP.
In both cases, he got no joy. The disc was not picked up by the system. "
from EMI
"As the technology was created to be played through its own embedded player on the CD itself and not any other player that is currently available to the PC/Apple, it will cause anomalies if played in any other manner."
Now
Actually .. markups only ranged from 20% - 45% .. the majority of that markup goes to overhead.
.. initially.
.. lets look 8-12 months down the line. Most of the internet guys are dead in the water. Their sales were not enough to maintain their interest (as only some 45% of the country is wired anyways), or their business plans were simply not thought out - no one can sell at 50% off and make money, even selling out of their basement. ESPECIALLY when markups average 35% ish. MAYBE 1 out of 10 of them is still around, or the attrition rate maintains a steady number of fly-by-night stores which no one has confidence in.
.. yeah .. that helps consumers. It always helps when you can't buy something you want.
.. but we can order it for you.' Some of these folks are REALLY generous, and offer to only take 25-50% of the product cost upfront.
.. not 4 weeks from now when your order comes in.
.. does this sound familiar poindexter?) and they decide to have a go at actually making money .. AND DECIDE TO CHARGE FULL RETAIL PLUS SHIPPING!
.. now the 8 kids in those towns (remember, the ones where the stores went under? ) can get stuff again, they just pay the prices they paid before, and shipping of course, oh . and they have to wait a week or so till it shows up, and can only pray that no one at the shipping company messes up, because they don't actually get to *PICK UP* the product themselves.
.. impulse / discover sales vs. established market sales.
.. we went full circle (this is history folks, not theory) and now
and
At its best, my store was making 10-12% profit off the gross sales receipts. [Which, for all you 'give me everything free' folks out there, is very good for retail.]
Technically, your arguement [your going to LOVE this] is correct
In a Brick & Morter vs Brick & Morter fight. I would ALMOST say it is healthy. [Which is why you see McDonalds and Burger Kings less than 1 block apart, sometimes NEXTDOOR.]
Prices drop due to fierce competition, internet stores / websites could sell at 50% off retail, and the consumer TOTALLY won.
Now
Many of the retail game stores hit the rocks. Since markup to profit ratios are fairly low,and virtually all of them are s-corp or sole propritorships, any hit to a non established game/hobby store is going to be very hard to recover from. lets say out of every 10 stores, 4 died because the owners made bad decisions, and another 4 died because of loss of sales either due to other brick & morters, or internet sales. So out of the 2 left, they were either established stores, or someone in there was really paying attention.
How does this benifit the end consumer ?
8 towns (the ones where the brick and morter stores went under) no longer have game/hobby stores. 95% of the internet stores are dead or the turnover is so high that you never know if your going to actually GET the product. So 8 towns full of kids can't get the stuff anymore.
Great
There are 2 other phenonimums that follow this chain of events.
'Special order stores' are retail stores that have no money, (for whatever reason) or don't have the faith or balls to compete with folks who are fly-by-night discounting. So they basically have a number of catalogs behind the counter. If you try to buy something that the owner isnt personally intereted in [and thus stocks] they say 'we don't have that
Yeah, I personally LOVE when I need to buy something, and no one actually *HAS* it on their shelf. If I'm in your store with $$ in my pocket, I wan't it NOW
The other (and ironic) thing that happens, is someone notices that the internet stores die because they don't make any profit (Gee
So
I can lecture you on how this causes attrition in hobbies and games at another time
SO