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Microsoft Wins Homeland Security Contract
syzme writes "According to The Register (as well as Reuters and News.com), 'The U.S. Department of Homeland Security has signed a deal for Microsoft software worth something in the region of $100 million, covering servers and over 140,000 desktops. This does not however mean that Microsoft and its hench-OEM Dell are poised to hoover up all of the Department's lovely IT budget, nor indeed that this is all new money for them; largely, it seems to be more a case of Microsoft holding onto business it's already got.'" This shouldn't be much of a surprise -- remember the Federal government is already Microsoft's biggest customer.
May the obligatory lame Microsoft/Security jokes begin! Fire away!
My journal has hot
What I want to know is, what technologies are they using to integrate all those different computer systems? That has to be a nightmare and a half.
Finding God in a Dog
So much for security in our homeland...
Given Microsoft's record of continual failure with regards to security, I've always thought putting MS in charge of security (as with Palladium) was like asking the wolf to guard the sheep.
Somewhere, in a deep dark cave, some terrorists are having a jolly good laugh.
Beep beep.
Good news: Orwellian homeland securty is now going to lose all your data as fast as it collects it.
Bad News: "In other news, After extensive backround checks by homeland security, Mr. Nedal Nib Amaso is now head of NTSB....."
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
This shouldn't be much of a surprise -- remember the Federal government is already Microsoft's biggest customer.
what would be the surprise? did MS do anything illegal here? or are they doing what companies do for fun; MAKING MONEY?
please stop looking at everything microsoft does as immoral - they are a company, their purpose is to make money.
Wasn't most of the DHS already around, and thus, already had desktops and software and all that garbage? Did they throw it all out instead of just installing a comparatively small set of computers and buying licenses for those?
Man, I wouldn't have voted for that!
Anyone have a pointer to what I need to do to tell the government where my tax money should be sent?
In fact, it would be nice of them to provide a "do not use this money for Microsoft products" option.
The Homeland Security Advisory System's current threat level has been elevated to 'blue' (Immanent threat of terrorism due to blue screen)
Jon Bardin
What's needed now is serious, patient lobbying, rather than anti-MS zealotry. Microsoft must be respectfully exposed to civil liberties arguments, rather than constantly defaced and hacked, or it will be a major party to ratcheting up surveillance and electronic oppression.
I bet they're really crying about that deal now.
..and then we do everything we can to keep them there by giving them huge contract after huge contract.
*sigh*
I would love to propose a bill / law that any company found guilty of antitrust violations is barred from doing business with the US G'ment for 5 years per infraction. MS would be banned for quite some time.... but, oh well, they have lobbyists and money, and I don't.
Department of Homeland Security: Removing the rights real patriots fought and died for since 2001
hahahaha LOL
It figures that a fascist and unamerican branch of Gov't such as the DOHS would employ a fascist and unamerican company such as M$ to take care of their tech-needs. Heil Bush!
Security can only be as good as the most insecure point, which doesn't make me feel to good about Microsoft winning this contract.
Imagine this senario: DoHS employee writes up a memo about who they are currently profiling and what information they have on file and saves it to his hard drive. Some terrorist writes an e-mail virus designed to send word file back to an account he can access. He then sends this virus to a department account where it spreads and sensitive information is transmitted back to the terrorist.
Virusus like these have already been proven viable in MS Outlook. One can only hope that they are taking the appropriate measures to ensure that all employees have their computers locked down tight.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
One of the reasons the Feds are MS's biggist customer is becouse almost every computer has two, even three licences. Most organizations buy a site licences and then get one with the Dell PC. If only Dell sold PC's without licences...
hmm... for fun I enjoy launching DDoS attacks against 127.87.42.5
In other news, Osama bin Laden just crapped his pants in disbelief. So much for computer security, indeed.
Heard about the new seal they got?
Since MS did a bid, can we get a list of competing bids as well as criteria? It would be interesting to review...
"If you are on fire you can just stop, drop, and roll. If you fall into Lava you are just dead." - my 5yr old daughter
Rings of government using Homeland Security dollars to improve IT without actually improving security.
This shouldn't be much of a surprise -- remember the Federal government is already Microsoft's biggest customer.
No, it shouldn't.
The US federal government is the largest purchaser of goods and services in the world.
The above statement seems to imply something ugly, when in fact MANY companies' largest customer is the federal government.
...will be illegal and a sign of terrorism?
-- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
That it's a lot of money. Otherwise it seems to be pretty par for the course and nothing really noteworthy.
Now a move AWAY from Microsoft would be news.
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
"This security patch addresses both previous and newly discovered security vulnerabilities pertaining to homeland security."
Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
that DHS already has many Open Source (and non-MS) apps widely deployed... They are extensively using Apache, Squid, Open Office (in some places) and things like Java for other day to day operations...
t ec h.htm
Some of their integration efforts are mentioned here:
http://www.govexec.com/features/1202/1202manage
(Disclaimer: I work for DHS.)
Of course the spooks require closed-source software -- closed-source makes back doors possible.
If the software were open-source, someone would find and publish any nasty little secrets hidden in the code.
-kgj
"The Department has purchased a Microsoft enterprise licence via Dell"
Lovely! Another example of Gov't spending too much - they could get the license directly from MS and save alot... Its not like they're some small mom and pop company, I mean dang.
This does not however mean that Microsoft and its hench-OEM Dell are poised to hoover up all of the Department's lovely IT budget
Ahhhh, unbiased reporting. Have you considered working for FOX News?
Please help metamoderate.
This one needs the Borg icon bad. However, the placement of that icon is often done without any regard to how appropriate it is.
So much for Homeland "Security".
Well done.
why run from Vincenzo?
That they'd make use of SE Linux, since they helped develop it.
Also, you'd think they'd want a variety of O/S's, ect, for security purposes.
It shall be very funny/ironic when "Homeland Security" gets hacked due to some newfound MS flaw. Actually, i'm frightened, as they will probably have ever detail they can glean from every person they can, opened up to some arsehole
"This does not however mean that Microsoft... are poised to hoover up all of the Department's lovely IT budget...."
hmm... Microsoft software running DHS and its tracking of US citizens. Shouldn't that be J. Edgar Hoover?
I for one welcome our new technology overlords!
sauve qui peut!
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
I see you are trying to bomb a country.
Would you like help?
-Get help with bombing the country
-Just bomb the country without help
Crap! Sure won't be the Department of Homeland Stability.
I thought that was Steve Jobs who took a dump into his clothes whenever encountering overhyped technology such as that sidewheel scooter everyone is talking about.
Given Microsoft's record of continual failure with regards to security, I've always thought putting MS in charge of security (as with Palladium) was like asking the wolf to guard the sheep.
Given that 'homeland security' is really a euphemism for something between 'Big Brother' ("total informational awareness" etc.) and 'Political Police', I for one am relieved they are sufficiently incompetent to select Microsoft as their platform. This may, and I stress may, slow down our slide into a complete surveillance society submerged beneath ubiquitous governance.
Or not, as it may be just the prelude needed for even more draconian legislation and public hysteria when Microsoft's chronic security issues begin to affect our perceived safety, leading to the unpleasant irony of having the technical ability to monitor and ubiquitously govern every man, woman, child, dog, cat, and garden slug in the country diminished while providing the political excuse for accelerating legislation through congress that makes the former pre-Gorbochov soviet parliament look positively liberal by comparison.
What we do know for certain is that it puts a lot of money in the pockets of a convicted monopolist, which isn't helpful to anyone (other than said monopolist).
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
All IP traffic within the US must be monitored and logged.
All computers using IP resources in the US must be trust(ed,worthy).
All software running on trust(ed,worthy) systems must be verified and signed by DHS-approved auditing body.
Due to the enormous expense of this undertaking, a surcharge will be applied to every CPU, HDD, and piece of software used on trusted machines. DHS-approved auditing bodies will use the proceeds to monitor and manage all computer systems within the US.
Circumvention or non-compliance shall be a felony, punishable by not less than five years in prison and $10,000 fine for each violation.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
All that violence, and for nothing.. Instead of suicide bombers, and the like, they will only need to train 3l33t 5kr|pt K|dd135 to kik our asses into oblivion. Hell, a few good buffer overflows, maybe DoS for good measure, and they'll have the keys to this kingdom. Thanx MS!
"Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs" - George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)
all you microsoft loving infidels will suffer now!!!
prepare the wrath of *nix allah !!!
we will launch our cyber jihad againts your weak judeo-christian IIS servers
mwahahahaaaa !!!
These dapper heros are falling on the M$ grenade, to save us.
Someone actually got the words Microsoft and Security in the same subject line! :)
So much for Homeland "Security".
Now now, let's not be so quick to criticize. Securing Microsoft systems is extremely simple:
Wasn't this predicted in some biblical text?
I just think its funny, the man with the most money in the world is given even more money...
I thought the rich already did a pretty good job of removing the liberties of the poor men.
Now the rich is charged with security, and Ben Franklin says I told you so.
Why, I'm positively shocked. Shocked I say! Next, you'll be telling us that the earth's gravity makes things fall toward it.
This about covers it all. National security and Microsoft. Wrapped up in one...
Have fun with this
-B
is it april fools day?
oh wait, its july....i guess its just fools day...
microsoft and security - -- the oxymoron of the millenia...
We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
...using the sophisticated simulation of minesweeper.
Of course, the government is not only collecting information on individuals, they collect it on anything we're involved in, including our jobs and businesses.
It's pretty well-documented that Microsoft's software is full of holes and that they're not particularly good at fixing them. Witness Microsoft's own computers being taken down by a worm. My concern is that we've just given not-so-well-intentioned foreign parties a free pass to take a look at everything that's going on in the United States. Holes and hacks will be found. If they really cared about "security," they'd use a blend of different programs and software. Sure, a little more work, but a lto more work to penetrate.
IAAL
It's no wonder dealing with the feds takes for ever, they're always in the middle of a server reboot. Someone want to tell them that server uptime is supposed to be greater then on-hold queue time?
Now, if that makes sense to anyone, could you please explain it to me? I think I've confused myself.
only if the wolf is bloated beyond movement and has to be poked with a stick because it keeps falling asleap
//comments are for suckers
//coders read code
All joking asside, this will cause some serious repercussions as discussed here.
It always has to be something negitive with you /.ers.
"640 K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates, 1981
'There are three stages in your reintegration,' said O'Brien. 'There is learning, there is understanding, and there is acceptance. It is time for you to enter upon the second stage.' ...
Do you remember writing in your diary, "I understand how: I do not understand why"? It was when you thought about "why" that you doubted your own sanity. ...
'You are ruling over us for our own good,' he said feebly. 'You believe that human beings are not fit to govern themselves, and therefore --'
He started and almost cried out. A pang of pain had shot through his body. O'Brien had pushed the lever of the dial up to thirty-five.
'That was stupid, Winston, stupid!' he said. 'You should know better than to say a thing like that.'
'Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?'
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
If they considered open source with support from someone they'd invariably go with the lowest bidder who would surely proceed to screw things up... Most software contracts the gov't purchase are huge wastes of money. At least with micro$oft thay have a good idea of what they're getting and doing a half-assed job of maintaining their desktop's doesn't require much knowledge.
what would be the surprise? did MS do anything illegal here? or are they doing what companies do for fun; MAKING MONEY?
The problem I see here is that Microsoft's customer is the government. Where did the government get their money? Did they work hard and earn it? Hell, no! They took it by force. If the government wants more money, do they have to work harder for it or cut expenses (like the rest of us do)? Of course not! They just haul out the guns and take it! So, no, they didn't do anything illegal. They did something that is anti-freedom.
please stop looking at everything microsoft does as immoral - they are a company, their purpose is to make money.
Lots of Leftists think that making money is inherently immoral. I am not one of them, so your argument here is ineffective on me. I think Microsoft is immoral for other reasons. These are reasons for which they have never apologized, for which they have never tried to make amends, and that they show no signs of stopping.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
... courtesy of the rejected post machine. The government sector news sites are always good - and usually better - for details about contracts of this sort:
Microsoft/Dell Gets $90-$120 Million Homeland Security Contract
Microsoft has been awarded the five-year, $90 million Department of Homeland Security contract for desktop and server software. The contract will be managed by Dell and will provide the DHS with 140,000 desktops running Windows XP and Microsoft Office Professional. When consolidated with current agreements, the contract amounts to a six-year agreement covering 144,000 desktops, worth between $110 million and $120 million. This follows the $478 million, six-year deal with the Army announced last month. More at the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Washington Post, InformationWeek, the Register , eWEEK, and Reuters.
from this article.
;)
Homeland Security says the advantages include a reduction in the costs associated with deployment, implementation, and maintenance, while providing for a more standard desktop environment. In addition, the department says, the agreement provides it with a common E-mail app.
Oh boy! 140,000 carbon-copy XP boxes running Outlook! That's a huge, free server-farm for anyone that cracks it...
I always thought that the Department of Home Security was a temporary thing. I guess this is a wake up call for me. I always thought that Department of Home Security would just, go away.
Something you invest $100,000,000 is designed to stay.
There is no US Company that is better integrated into the US Goverment (especially DoD) than Microsoft. And anyone that says "Linux" instead knows little about the deep-seeded failings of the OSS security, or widescale deployability. The only other legitimate choice for a 'solution' contract like this would be an Apple/IBM combo, but they don't even currently make such offerings except via contractor.
Integration is where it's at. Whether you realize it or not.
Bluescreen
This is worse than those 600 dollar hammers a few years back.90 million dollars wasted on winXp and officeXp.What can they do with that software that I cant do with free debian and openoffice?
Excellent discussion. Well worth the read.
everyone involved with this deal should immediately be subjected to a background probe....somebody on this team is working for the other guys.
//comments are for suckers
//coders read code
The US government is pretty much *everyones'* biggest customer.
The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes on-line August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they pull the plug; Skynet retaliates.
Education is the silver bullet.
microsoft's not intentionally insecure (we hope), so it's more like asking the severely mentally challenged invalid to watch the sheep
an oxymoron.
"The U.S. Department of Homeland Security has signed a deal for MandrakeSoft Linux software worth something in the region of $0 (free), covering servers and over 140,000 desktops."
Instead they paid $100 million of our tax dollars to a company who is breaking antitrust laws. Maybe Microsoft isn't the bad guy here.
Microsoft isn't about making money so much any more. They're about maintaining control. The loss of an entire city government in an anti-American and anti-Microsoft country is a defeat that will probably have ripple effects which scare the poo out of Microsoft.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
...this is still news. It just shows that if such a contract is news, MS still got a long way to go before getting fully accepted.
parent is goat.se do not click link...
oh, and parent... SMACK!!!
Is there any other real option for the government? I'm assuming everyone here wants a distro of Linux to be the government's OS of choice. Which one? Red Hat? Are they a large enough company to ensure 24/7 tech support on the governments' 140,000 computers? I don't know, and I don't think the government does either. I think Microsoft was the safe choice. Granted it's not the more secure operating system, but their needs go beyond that.
2003-07-16 01:37:32 Homeland Insecurity? (articles,microsoft) (rejected)
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
The reason that everyone (including the federal guvnment) still uses Microsoft is because, It Just Works(TM). I can pull windows out of its box, put it in my computer, and have it running in about 30 minutes. I don't have to manually pick out kernel drivers like with debian, I don't have to worry about RedHat not recognizing half my hardware (like my ATI or my AC97 sound chip). I can take any lance corporal off the field, and with windows, he's most likely to know how to at least do basic stuff like surf the web, read e-mail, etc. If the guvment were to use Linux, they would have to spend additional manpower on installation, more man power keeping those boxes up to date (or pay money for RedHats up2date service), not to mention retraining a lot of staff on how to use these computers.
Another reason for the Government choosing Windows is that they probally already have a majority of their services on windows, and to ask a Four Star General to approve a massive budget to switch away from what works to what might not work will take quite a bit of effort.
Wow....that karma just burned brightly....
Wow, this is awesome Job security. I was afraid they would use *nix, then I would'nt have nearly as much work. I think I am going to buy that Jag now
no god is good
Running Microsoft products does mean they'll be at the forefront of any computer attacks. Maybe they're just thinking outside of the box.</sarcasm>
Government spending accounts for 25% of the US GDP. While this is stageringly large, the 75% of non compulsory spending is much bigger.
The ugly thing is that Microsoft provides the worst of all web services, yet seems to be favored by the current administration. It makes no sense whatsoever for Microsoft to be getting these contracts when IBM, Red Hat, Debian, Caldera (yes even brain dead SCO), HP, Sun and countless other good US firms can do the job better and cheaper. Tell me that the US government is the largest cusomer of all the above and that their products are well represented in federal spending and I might change my opinion. A vauge statement that nothing is wrong here does not do it.
For me, this just goes to show that Homeland Security has no clue.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Wasn't this predicted in some biblical text?
...that Neal Stephenson's "Killer App" is biblical text now do you?
Outgoing Whitehouse Press Secretary Ari Fleischer's replacement has been selected. Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf, who was previously the Iraqi Information Minister, was handpicked by President George Bush after minimal deliberation.
Mr. al-Sahaf was quoted as saying, "The glorious Bush administration will utterly defeat and destroy the terrorists wherever they may hide. The perpetrators of Evil cannot stand against the brilliant light of the excellent, most worthy President Bush. Only fools, cowards, and terrorists would dare to speak out against his splendid agenda of creating a formidable government agency charged with investigating American citizens to determine their potentially wicked motives. And what better company than the gracious, innovative Microsoft Corporation to help this agency carry out its noble mission?"
bytesmythe
Hypocrisy is the resin that holds the plywood of society together.
-- Scott Meyer
Microsoft and Homeland Security? Isn't this an oxymoron?
$90 million to provide licenses for 140,000 desktops? That's ~$642 per PC, just for licencing! I can just about build a complete computer for about that same price.
It's not the Osamas or the Al Qaeda operatives that are the concern here. I think the real threat to DOHS's security infrastructure are the numerous folks out there within the good ol' US of A, that aren't necessarily in support of what they might consider the prelude to a police state, i.e., the DOHS. I would suspect that that latter catagory boasts a large cadre of 1337 skillsets.
.sig
If you think about the reliability, uptime, and random reboot problems with many MS products then this could be great for us citizens.
We know all of the attempts to restrict our personal freedoms with wire taps, internet/email monitoring, and the ideology to put all of the collected info into a massive database for those who have the clearance to peruse. The best thing is, although, they might have your most personal info it will probably be collected and stored by a MS product.
What does that mean? It means it will either disapear or just spontaneously fragment and corrupt itself! Why our goverment chooses bloatware over dependablity and functionality is beyond me but they were never known for being frugal or making the best decisions in terms of bang for the buck. I'm sure MS is practically giving it away just to keep the business anyway.
It makes you wonder how many fuckups happen just out of using MS software. I'm not saying it's the worst or best because it does have it's use but since this story is about our goverment using it I'd prefer a more stable and dependable os/desktop. When I think of mixing MS software with our goverment all I see is the movie "Wargames" and that's not a nice thought.
You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.
Funny how the US government is Microsoft's biggest customer yet Microsoft (Bill Gates) has told the government (privately) that Microsoft will never program anything specifically for the government in terms of security, compiling abilities, customization, etc.
...will we be handing out EULAs to anyone that wants to have diplomatic ties with us?
"...By installing this embassy, you absolve the United States Government of any responsibility for lost revenue, citizens, or infrastructure. Furthermore, you agree that you will not attempt to negatively influence the revenue, citizens, or infrastructure of the United States..."
blog |
It's ugly, because the Numero Uno, Most Stinkinest, Slimiest company to many here has the Fed as its biggest customer.
They aren't selling toilet paper or office supplies, you know.
Lots of news outlets are biased. The major ones have been biased toward the left for years. Check out Rather Biased to see some of the ultra-Leftist things that the Leftist Dan Rather has said, many of which have been said as if they were objective reporting. The New York Times, considered the "most respectable" newspaper in the country, has some of the most Leftist slant of any.
So why are you picking on Fox? There are many well-established Leftist mouthpieces which masquerading as objective reporting for decades that you could have chosen.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Think of the inherent cost in training 100,000+ people to use an OS they never have before. We're not talking about a group of techies here, these are computers for the entire department.
Think how Larry Ellison feels!
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
What makes it news is it's part of a contract consolidation by the US government which is helping cut costs. The six year contract will get Microsoft much less money than they're used to from the government. For the dollar value spread over the length of the contract it's not much money for Microsoft. Continuing under these terms is actually a loss for them compared to the past, except for the fact it keeps linux off those desktops for the next 6 years.
Developers: We can use your help.
I hear the Coast Guard is trying to get an exemption from having to use Windows.
:-D
Too many open ports.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Fox News Channel gets singled out because it dares to be balanced. This is why it gets picked on by those who insist that the only media should be that with a stringent left-wing bias.
I didn't click the link, as the URL was: http://www.google.com/url?search=microsoft+homelan d+security+impact+society+technology&q=http://www. hick.org/goat The latter part of the URL seems to indicate trollishness.
I've seen a few like these that don't really link to the site indicated.
Time to update Slashcode to stay ahead of the trolls in the great Slashcode-Troll arms race.
"Oh shit. There goes the planet..."
It's actually a brilliant idea. Think about it. Buy lots of M$ stuff. Destroy it. Homeland security achieved!
The Microsoft patches make the system less secure. First, they always end up introducing new (oops!) system holes worse than the first.
Second, the lack of security is part of their design, such as the trojan-horse aspects of Media Player (which they are always increasing), and "DRM" which degrades security by not letting you do what you want with your own content on your own machine.
If we had only been running Find Fast in Iraq then locating Saddam et. al. would have been so much easier...
(Of course we'd also have had all our tanks disabled by the I Love You virus...)
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Presumably, this includes a support contract. 144,000 pc's for 5 years. Only $125/year each. It always sounds worse in aggregate.
How much would RedHat charge to equip and support 144,000 PC's for 5 years? (not counting the massive migration costs associated)
Who told you that? Did you consider that people actually write that clasified information to begin with? Yeah, these are normal people and they are going to be using normal computers, Microsoft now.
At least in nuclear power, safegaruds information guides have no clue. Eight months ago, it was considered OK to edit and store safegaurds information on a regular PC, so long as you disconected the network while you were working on the information. Safegaurds information is stuff like plutonium inventory. In paper form, it's supposed to be kept under lock and key and you are never supposed to leave it out on your desk while you go take a piss. Viruses like SirCam totaly obliterate the precatuions taken. I doubt the folks in Homland Security have much more of a clue than this.
Tell me how a Department of Homaland Security computer is going to have Total Information Awareness without being attached to a network. Tell me then what's going to keep that information from flowing through all the holes Microsoft is famous for.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I'm sure they'll secure those machines well, padlocks, keycard entry systems.
:)
Oh you meant the OS....
It's sort of ironic that the U.S. government is Microsoft's biggest customer, and at the same time was prosecuting them for being a monopoly. If the government just switched to some other OS (Linux or Mac OS) the monopoly would instantly come to an end.
Fox News Channel gets singled out because it dares to be balanced. This is why it gets picked on by those who insist that the only media should be that with a stringent left-wing bias.
FOX is definately not balanced, despite their claims. The conservative viewpoint definately gets the upper-hand. It's not one-tenth as biased as Dan Rather is, but it isn't "balanced" either. I think that the market was demanding a FOX news, and it got one. I think that Leftists are upset because they don't have a stranglehold on the televised bully pulpit any more. Remember, Leftists, like Christians, would much rather preach than debate. This is why they suck at talk radio: they can't face the callers who will challenege their fact- and reason-deprived positions.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
One night, I was like, writing a report on how Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake from Nigeria, when all of a sudden it went berserk, the screen started flashing, it was like BEEP BEEP BEEP and the whole paper just disappeared. All of it. And it was a good report! I had to cram and rewrite it really quickly. Needless to say, my rushed report wasn't nearly as good, and now Tony Blair is like, in danger of losing his job!
"If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
Guys (Gals and the transgendered):
1. April Fool's Day was over 4.5 months ago. LAME!
2. This would be funny if Microsoft had not cited national security concerns as a reason why they were unwilling to release code. I can't find a link to that now, but there was an MS VP who made a statement along those lines last year: Releasing MS source could endanger national security because of problems with the code.
That MS now wins the "Homeland Security" contract just sounds like an oxymoron.
GF.
Lots of petrified grits
It is time to update slashcode so that it'll reject post that just have an HTML tag in them or whatever...
Didn't MS give the Chinese government the source code to Windows for their review? Did the US_DHS get the same opportunity? IMO, this contract just makes it easier for rogue nations and terrorists to spy on US govt agencies.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
All your homeland are belong to us.
IE crapped out and came up with the error report screen.
I have seen the future of government applications, and it is buggy.
"They aren't selling toilet paper or office supplies, you know."
Give them time.
Perhaps you meant "Alles ist verloren?" If so, you got one word right out of three in the subject, ignoring for the present the capitalization.
With respect to the topic at hand, I remember how excited everyone was about the expanding internet masses when the unwashed masses of non-technical users began to come online.
I enjoy Linux just the way it is -- a road less travelled. I will probably continue to enjoy it if it's use becomes even more widespread, but it is already good, free (as in freedom) and it is free (as in beer). This is hardly a disaster.
...the terrorists will have won.
Just because it's a cliche doesn't mean it can't be true...
does this mean that Windows is gonna start using Tom Ridge's crayons to describe the severity of application errors? Your Application has experienced (yet) a(nother) chartreuse access violation...
Windows would make it OSAMAB~1
Nit-picky, I know...
Considering that the current administration is about as American as Fidel Castro it doesnt suprise me that they pick a product from a company that is about as capitalist as the Vietnamese government.
2003 fiscal deficit is now 500,100,000,000.
/. opinions on this development are as follows:
A synopsis of the
Microsoft wins contract for homeland security?
-I feel safer already.
-What's that, an oxymoron?
-We would have caught Osamma but the server was down.
-We could have caught Saddam but the server had a virus.
-We could have stopped xyz but they were using unix and we couldn't read the file format.
-In the interests of national security all computers must now run Windows.
-Please change all NSC keys in the hive to DHS.
-All you base are belong to us.
...will require activation through the Dept. Homeland Security. You may achieve this through a simple https connection via any Passport server.
Please be aware that any relocation, or weight change, may require a new activation, since for homeland security purposes, your personal activation code will consist of a special combination of address, phone number, SSN, and weight.
It's not as if there are any free alternatives. Thanks Redhat.
At first I thought it said "Microsoft wins homeland security CONTEST". My jaw hit the floor. Then I re-read it and realized nothing had changed. *whew*
---- Move SIG...For great justice!
Since a large percentage of the regulars here are software developers, including those that have been doing this since before Microsoft, there is a certain attitude about the eligance of solutions and the art of software. No reason to be alarmed -- it's completely analogous to asking a master chef about McDonald's food or a sports car enthusiast about mini-vans.
That being said -- I agree there should be no surprize about the latest army of federal drones ordering the same machines they sell to junior high school kids.
Sleep is for the Weak
Microsoft is probably one of the Federal Government's biggest customers? :) After all, we have the best democracy that money can buy.
at least we can now acertain that the government isn't REALLY serious about this issue.
.. the words security and Microsoft are pretty much polar opposites - unless your talking about cash reserves.
I mean
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
Didn't Suse charge Munich over $35M for 14,000 seats? 140,000 seats for $100M sounds like a good deal in comparison.
Vote for Pedro
I've never followed a goatse link. What exactly are they? I don't want to follow one, either. Could someone just describe it to me?
How are you going to keep them down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus?
Such as this one:
How convenient to define just what security problems get reported and then say that one product has more than the other. As the adage goes, there are lies, d*** lies and then there are statistics - load the statistics and you can prove anything you want. This "report" smells like a rat. Funny how I've had many virus attacks on my Windows machine - I've seen all sorts of emails floating around being sent out that the person didn't send out - but a virus did. I have YET to have that done with my Linux box - EVER - DUH! A truly objective and truthful article in this area would be wonderful - but a loaded one full of untruths and half-truths is totally and completely worthless. Just how much did Microsoft pay you to do this so-called "research"?
And if you are trolling, I see that it wouldn't be the first time, as I noticed from the last 24 comments you posted.
6. ????
7. Prof...
nah, this IS getting old...
> was like asking the wolf to guard the sheep
Actually, it's more like putting a scarecrow to guard the sheep. I don't think Microsoft has the intentions of the wolf -- it just is no damn good a security.
its not funny.
Let's see, "over" 140,000 desktops which could be 144,000 desktops, so how does the following apply:
Gee, I knew M$ had apocalyptic practices, but sheesh ...
I like theese oxymorons: Great Britain United Kingdom
Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.
You deserve it. That link is bogus.
And I thought it read that Microsoft had contracted the Homeland Security.
It is not a disease one would wish on anyone, even the likes of MS.
" no human that visits slashdot actually belives the above statement."
Only those who watch Fox News really know that it is fair and balanced. Those who buy into the FUD from the left-wing networks deny it.
Sylvester Wins Tweety-Bird Security Contract. Film at 11.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
That's your opinion. Next.
yet seems to be favored by the current administration."
Show me how previous administrations favored other software vendors over Microsoft. It's not like the federal government suddenly switched from Linux to Microsoft when Bush took office.
It makes no sense whatsoever for Microsoft to be getting these contracts when IBM, Red Hat, Debian, Caldera (yes even brain dead SCO), HP, Sun and countless other good US firms can do the job better and cheaper.
Again, that's your opinion. The people making the decision apparently disagree with your assessment. Of course you could defend your assertions with wild accusations of political back-scratching and the like, but when all is said and done, you still haven't produced any facts.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Lets not forget Bill Gates lives here. That may mean that he would work extra hard to make things secure for this project. Thus creating new security measures and things that can be implemented in the private sector.
A spread-wide anus.
Wouldn't the analogy be more like asking a mentally handicap person guarding the sheep? Probably a very big insult to the mentally handicapped person in this case.... I go for asking a rock to guard the sheep.
...I've always thought putting MS in charge of security (as with Palladium) was like asking the wolf to guard the sheep.
Perhaps one of these analogies would work, too:
It's like putting a steel door on a cardboard box.
It's walking into a battlefield backwards.
It's like carrying a tiger-repellant rock.
It's like driving eyes-closed because "God is my pilot (or whatever)"
Basically, Microsoft + Homeland Security = a smoking hole that will become the ocean separating Mexico and Canada.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
As others have observed, Microsoft is not the big winner here, although it is a winner. It gets to consolidate and aggregate its existing business, and sure it's probably squeezing Apple, IBM, etc some more here and there with this contract. And sure, it has locked down this portion of market share for FIVE MORE YEARS, which is bad. But...
The big winner is Dell. It's administering all this software business. It skims whatever it can before passing the lion's share on to Microsoft. It acquires a huge list of potential "customers" and tries to sell them Dell hardware. And it squeezes out a bunch of small fry who were ensconced in cozy government contracts. Excerpted from Government Computer News:. html:
http://www.gcn.com/vol1_no1/daily-updates/22743-1
The department reached the agreement earlier this month, after inviting nine bidders, including GTSI Corp. of Chantilly, Va., and MarkSoft Management Resources Inc. of Canterbury, N.H., to present proposals.
Seriously, who are those two companies that got mentioned? Either wannabees, or hasbeens. Dell ate their lunch, and Dell has some other merchandise it would enjoy selling to the 280,000 eyeballs it just acquired for the next five years.
I've never followed a goatse link. What exactly are they? It's a picture of a man spreding his anus wider than you might expect possible.
This is modded funny, but I wouldn't be surprised if sometime in the future the US government tries to block the release of information related to Windows' (in)security, and start arresting people as 'terrorists' because the information could conceivably be used to hack Homeland Security's computers.
I'm glad I'm Canadian.
Heh. I particularly like the "asside" part.
You should try to disguise it a bit more.
Think about it though... you can bet that Microsoft can/will now try to use "Homeland Security" as an excuse against the disclosure of vulnerabilites. People discussing, criticizing, or publicizing security flaws of their stuff might now now be labeled as "terrorists", and punished accordingly. God forbid you actually release exploit code.
Perhaps my tinfoil hat's on a little bit tight at the moment, but someone who finds yet another buffer overflow or active-x exploit might just end up disappeared or behind a fence in Cuba...
"I know that this doesn't protect againt trojans in MP3s or e-mail virus, but if one were to implement a Virus Scanner at Firing Wall"
You are forgetting the worst Trojan of all: the Microsoft OS.
Lets think about this for a minute...
Every network is secure as one makes it. You could be running anything and still have it be insecure. Do you REALLY think that Linux even had a REMOTE chance in hell to be accepted? Most large companies wont touch Linux with a 50 foot pole due to limited to zero support, drivers for hardware written by 16 y/o's, and the overall need to do everything manually.
Why is this such a surprise to anyone? Microsoft isnt perfect... but what O/S is? Also when was the last time you saw an MS box act as a DDOS drone?
Linux is more of a headache than most people here are willing to admit. Face it... if it wasnt EVERYONE would be using it. Why would anyone spend $400/desktop when the "same thing" is free from Redhat, SUSE, Debian etc...
I dont' know man, you're linking unneducated anti linux FUD. It's not a matter of opinion, but lack of information.
I would be curious to know if you've actually looked at data, and come to the conclusion that Linux is less secure than Windows stuff. If that's the case, I might suggest that you keep on reading and get the whole picture!
Cuz security really couldn't get much worse than MS offerings.
What I'm saying is, wether or not you mean to troll, that's the net effect. If you do have a compelling reason as to why Linux would have been a poor security choice (clue: your link isn't it!), then I'm sure most people would like to hear it.
(moderators: yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think I just took the bait on this troll)
Once again, that's much more opinion than fact.
the moderation system is as BB'sh as it gets.
You have obviously never read 1984. Maybe you should read it rather than griping about alleged moderation problems.
And if you don't like it here, stop visiting this site. Just get out. Who's forcing you to visit it?
Oh stop already, you make it too easy ...
- Osama
Pimps and whores
Idiot.
Microsoft's security track record is pretty comparable to the department of homeland security's...
If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
...provide the DHS with 140,000 desktops running Windows XP...
140,000 is big enough to create a custom version of Windows intended to allow Microsoft to spy on the government...
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
"Dan Rather is center-right, NYT is further right than Dan and CBS, and FOX refuses to report on impeachment-level offenses by Geo. W. Bush."
Dan Rather is center-left (nothing right-wing about him), and the NYT is to the left of him. As for FOX, it refuses to report on offenses that do not exist. It's called standards.
" No commercial news outlets in the United States are leftist"
No, several of them are. These include CNN, ABC, CBS, and NBC. This is the majority of the national news outlets. C-SPAN (you can count this as news) succeeds the best at having a lack of bias. and FOX keeps to the middle by showing both sides.
"If you want truth, throw your TV in a ditch"
You won't get truth by censoring and cutting off information. Never.
"and research where Dubya's" money comes from."
Your wacky bias shows as you drop insults into your supposedly serious argument. This is like talking with someone who says "Slick Willie". I don't know anything about the Philadelphia Enquirer, but based on your comments about other things, it has to be far left for you to call it "Center".
" You'll probably conclude that President Gore should be impeached"
President Gore? Did he serve after Presidents Mondale, Dukakis, and Dole? He's probably the guy who will be best remembered for the first colony on Mars, and adding Brobdignag as the 51st state.
"the NYT, CNN and Fox should all be in jail."
You'd fit in real good in Cuba, with your idea of jailing journalists who do not say what you want them to.
"-A. Veteran"
I think you are a veteran of the Cold War. Sorry, your side, the Soviets, lost.
Does anyone remember during the anti-trust trial, when Microsoft VP for Windows Jim Allchin testified that there are security flaws in Windows so grave, that to reveal the source code would constitute a severe threat to national security, and endanger the lives of soldiers in Afghanistan?
Do you think the people in DHS who made this decision were aware of this? If so, how could they have disregarded it?
You people are a broken record.
Microsoft's record of failure with regards to security is directory proportional to the fact that there are for more Windows machines out there than any other platform, hence it's under much more scrutiny.
Also, note, Unix security has historically been a complete joke, riddled with buffer overflow exploits. In fact, it largely still is a joke in terms of application exploits.
We won't be more secure but Microsoft will come up with a marketing strategy that will make us all fell better! :-D
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Just a little friendly advice from a member of the /. community you've been knocking.
I feel so much better. I was starting to see 1984 come true, where cameras spied on all of the citizens, and you were tracked for the sole point of tracking. Now I can feel relief, cuz when I take a piss in the bushes outside of a QuickyMart, I know their servers won't be recording me, they'll be rebooting so they can install yet another windows critical update (tm)
-- If we don't stand up for our rights, now, there will be no right to stand up for them later.
Checked the rules on your hardware firewall/router lately? Bet there's an entry or two in there that YOU didn't make.
If Microsoft sees fit to change the rules on hardware that doesn't even belong to it, how are they going to assure homeland security when they can't even get home networking security right?
> Given Microsoft's record of continual failure with regards to security, I've always thought putting MS in charge of security (as with Palladium) was like asking the wolf to guard the sheep.
No, it's more like asking a sheep to guard the wolves.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
...I wouldn't have spent that year in college.
Is to hear that the proposed TIA will be built on top of an MS Access database....
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Sometimes I just don't know how I should react:
1) Kill Microsoft! They're a convicted Monopolist! Why are they spending our taxdollars on that overpriced crap when they could dump half the money into Linux and some dedicated developers and have complete control over the product!
or
2) Shit. Homeland Security. Microsoft..
Maybe some battles aren't worth the fight.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
"I'm glad I'm Canadian."
You are?
"The "HIV==AIDS" hypothesis is the biggest medical fraud in human history. "
I bet you think the earth is flat, too.
Uhhhh, these big government single source contracts are new. Agencies used to make PC purchases like manilla folder purchases, a detail too small to worry about. Back then a decision to buy Microsoft on a Gateway could be shown to a best purchase due to M$ anti-competitive practices. Now that the US DoJ has proven those practices, we get these new big fat contracts? Nuts.
Have you ever worked for Government or are you just spouting off?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Topic: What do you think of 'Blue Screen' jokes?
Choose one.
The single largest company ever to warn people not to use their software for life-and-death situations, is now going to have an exclusive with the government to help prevent the next 9/11 attack.
Considering that the only (repeat: only ) effective Microsoft security measures to date are the ones that prevent people who've already stolen Windows-XP from upgrading it, it's pretty safe to say that we can all prepare to live with having any enemy who wants to know something knowing it while substantial numbers of us sit around glowing in the dark.
Today's bonus question: 'will the government's relationship with Microsoft include a EULA that precludes the government's suing them when they screw up?'
It's amazing what you can do to a society with enough money.
To mail me, remove the 'mailno' from my email addy.
"Yeah. It smells, too..."
So when the data has been compiled and it's given to the big boss, what do you think it's going to be? The big boss is going to open some kind of Word doc or a Power Point presentation, "Osama-been-here-and-there". Even if it's done by SHTML, the browser cache will be harvested and sent on. Holes, man great big, gaping M$ holes for the most important information of all.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The trough is being filled election on horizon.
Almost as bad as Chicago during the 60s, the constituancy of the Seattle area has become an area of special interest to the people who do the greasing. Lets see so far this year; Millitary software 800 million National Security 100 million , I guess they have screwed up with the aircraft industry though. Come on you guys you can do alot better than a puny 1 billion of voter grease. Ok lets see if we can stick it to the competition what was that about SCO? and what about those Germans buying Linux we will just have to see about that too. That will make them happier in Seattle.
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
Think before you click the "submit" button. That's beside the point. The point is that there are many more applications and so it follows that there'll be more security advisories. If that's the only story you have found that says that Linux/OSS may not be as secure, then you should think about whether or not you should trust it. Especially considering how little the study in the article takes into account. Try to find a few more studies, and some that take more into account. If you do, then your anti-Linux/OSS campaign will have some credibility.
Any one who has ever witnessed the US Government in action knows that they always pay too much for things that, if they really tried, could be gotten for free. They do this so they can justify their bloated budget requests for the next fiscal year.
"Microsoft's market share was not achieved through voluntary association, or traditional free market economics. It was achieved through force -- through the various powers of government which inevitably promote certain groups at the expense of others"
Nothing could be further from the truth. M$' domination was achieved as the result of using sneaky free-market techniques, like making demands of their big clients to exclude others.
The same thing happens with other monopolies: the behavior of the free market often can result in this, without government help.
> And that would be 121 people working for 4 years!
And remember! If you work for MSFT, now you get paid in restricted stock, not stock options!
That's right! You pay all the income *tax* as if you'd cashed in stock options up front, and you get all the *risk* of owning stock! Don't you feel more motivated already? 80-hour work weeks for everyone! Woohoo!
(Sorry, son, too many of you became millionaires in the last boom. Can't have that happen again. Stock options are only for the important people now.)
I did some short term consulting work with a company recently to help them prepare some bids on the last BAA (Broad Agency Announcement) sent out by the DHS. The scope and scale of the projects that were in the request were quite interesting, with some that were tailor made for linux (wearable computing initiatives, anyone?).
We haven't heard any updates on the bid selection, but after looking at a good portion of those potential projects I can truthfully say that Microsoft is going to have a really tough time filling the required roles for many of them, let alone doing it securely.
> Bad News: "In other news, After extensive backround checks by homeland security, Mr. Nedal Nib Amaso is now head of NTSB....."
Surveying the smoldering crater, President Ballmer was heard to remark "Y'know, they should have known that J0N45H-C40FT15-054M4-B1NL4-D3NIN-4-P16-5U1T wasn't a valid activation key."
OK, so they may not make the most reliable cars in the world anymore (still most fun to drive)
but at least they (Munich city hall linux story) chose the more stable and SECURE OS than US Homeland Security.
Their 1st task and possibly their primary task for years to come will be securing their own desktops from spyware (gator, bonzi,etc) and worms, viruses, trojans, etc.
I guess they will have to downlod service packs and hotfixes like everyone else.
Seriously though, this pisses me off in many ways.
First of all, Microsoft is a company that does not give a flying fuck about any consumer. All they want is power, control, and hard-core cash.
Secondly, this flimsy homeland security thing is just another front to protect the interests of the extremely wealthy, destroy any political opposition, spy on citizens, and control the world. (No matter what you think, they don't give a damn about you or me, or even the troops that fight for them. They are just pawns to be used in the fight for world domination, and when they die, they are only collateral damage.)
Thirdly, this is $100 million of taxpayers money. It is even more annoying when you consider that the computing needs could be satisfied by spending a mere fraction of that on Free Software.
That would make a GREAT dialog box.
"First of all, Microsoft is a company that does not give a flying fuck about any consumer"
That assumption is the first mistake. It is made by many who then sit back and are shocked that Microsoft does so well.
The fact is that Microsoft serves its consumers better than Linux, Amiga, or any of the other minor companies (Apple, etc.). We may think they are inferior, but they do satisfy the needs of the consumers better than the others do.
Maybe I'm just feeling particularly Jeffersonian today, but the more fouled up the "Ministry" of Homeland Security is, the safer I feel.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Must be separation of church and state: no government ministers and ministries here, unlike in Canada and England.
let's not foget that "The greates threat to freedom is an efficient bureaucracy".
Anything that can undermine the bureaucrats efficiency is a good thing.
Comeon, a convicted monopoly who is failing to even follow through on the miniscule slap on the wrists they received(recent s-dot article), should'nt be selling ANY software to our govt.
Obviously, with their terrible history of security(lack there of), the US Govt doesn't really care about it. They pay off enough politicians, and they fall right in line.
OH, and BUSH IS A FASCIST PIG!
it is such an irony that the US agency took an action that will preserve the convicted illegal monopoly and leave the system of Homeland "Security" insecure, while world outside the US are moving towards OSS and making the network for their government more secure and flexible. BillG owes GeorgeW a fat check for donation.
t echnolog y/2003-07-13-microsoft-linux-munich_x.htm
MS must have offered much lower price than Linux vendors to attract the buyers. Choosing the lowest price with the same sense as K-mart shoppers, however, is not necessarily equal to the best value. Munich chose Linux over Windoze with consideration of long term value and flexibility despite the higher price of IBM-SuSE offer.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/
was there anything Dep of HS could've learned from this deal? obviously not.
for MS to keep dumping their product without loss, it has to exploit cheap labors in developing countries just like many other US brand products cheaply sold at K-mart. MS products will soon proudly be developed and made in India, and when the system breaks down Homeland Security will call up MS Tech support and receive support from intelligent Indian tech living outside the US. Great. This is real globalization the United States have long sought, isn't it?
such a security sensitive agency as DoHS choosing the product that is well known for its insecurity is plain stupid. their system will be hacked sooner or later, regardless of the degree of damages it will cause. DoHS paid less for a cheap K-mart product and protected the American traditional monopoly in the industry. they deserve to be hacked.
"MS Tech support and receive support from intelligent Indian tech living outside the US. Great. This is real globalization the United States have long sought, isn't it?"
There's nothing wrong about globalization. If those Indians can do the job better, there is no reason not to hire them.
" it has to exploit cheap labors in developing countries "
Free trade, in which both sides decide something to their benefit, is never "exploitation".
I'd rather have the bureacrats be efficient so they waste a lot less of our money.
You can avoid the threat to freedom by having very few bureacrats, with very little power, paid so that it is clear that they are public servants.
Wolf to guard the sheep? I think that analogy is incorrect. M$ will not predate on DHS, they just treat security as an afterthought. They bring out their latest offering, ie same dammed thing with more wiz bangs than you will ever need and then go and fix all the holes as "other" people discover them. They seem to belive very much in security thru obscurity in practice. If you do not know about our security holes you cannot take advantage of them. Its more like asking a lamb to guard the sheep than a wolf to do so.
Compare this to the Linux/City of Munich news from yesterday. SUSE/IBM get $35.7 million for 14,000 computers. Microsoft/Dell get about three to four times that amount, but across ten times as many computers. So, per computer, the Microsoft/Dell deal is a much worse deal for the Microsoft and Dell and very cheap for the US government.
One wonders how much Bill charged the government for each copy of Windows sold containing NSA_KEY. Perhaps that accounts for the "biggest customer" ranking?
"Sorry, but the MS Fisher Price(TM) OS is not in the same league as that ....MacOS X."
Mac OS X? Very bad idea. For one, it runs hardly any software at all (if you want to shut down government so they do nothing, make them get Mac OS/X!). For another, the machines cost twice as much as standard hardware and are still slower. (and you can only get them from one computer company). Get Linux instead: you can run it on faster and cheaper computers that you can get from many companies (competitive bidding, imagine that!).
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Now that they've used it, I would think they would have known better :)
Karma Clown
The products responsible for Homeland Security are programmed in India and China.
-R
"You do realize, don't you, that socialism and communism are liberal ideals?"
Thanks, Rush Limbaugh. All liberals aspire to be communists. It is their ideal. What an amazing insight from half-your-brain.
So criticizing MS security gets mod point, but pointing out how flawed the criticizing is by showing Linux security is flawed amounts to trolling. Nice objectivity. What else are you going to censor because it isn't slashdot politically correct?
Vote for Pedro
$100 million / 140,000 = $714.29
Do they really need to buy seven hundred dollars of software for each computer? That must be comparable to the cost of the hardware. And people *still* consider Microsoft a viable option?
I just so happen to work for the Department of the Navy, and have since before the current administration.
And even before I started working on the base, you know what just about every workstation was? Micron P3 550MHz boxes. You know what OS was running on them? Microsoft Windows NT. Every one of them.
So don't try to tell me that large-scale government computer contracts are new and unique to the Bush administration. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
My government just threw away two perfectly good F22s. Not shot down by enemies, not lost in training accident or due to pilot error -- just siphoned away by waste and probably a bit of corruption. Lovely.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
"Problem is people (and by people I mean the general public) still think things like abortion, affirmative action, gay sex and copyright enforcement are vitally important and reasons to select a candidate."
That is like a "Which does not belong, A, B, C, or D" ? question.
The first three are hot-button issues "out there", but copyright enforcement is not at all.
Why doesn't some hot-shot newspaper hire some hot-shot security expert to probe these systems and identify (but not expoit) the weaknesses? There have to be dozens. There are killer headlines there, and it'd be dead easy for a paper to do. Newspeople take risks like this all the time.
Erik
Don't you mean the department of Homeland Insecurity?
--
Adobe's anti-counterfeiting softw
MS ASTROTUFFING, HOW ORIGINAL. NEXT: THE GOAT JOKES
(dumb line added for lameness filter--funny how it doesn't work on the parent)
" Actually I used to work for George W. Bush a while back and he used a poermac laptop with stickies on the ctrl apple delete keys so he would no what to push to reset it."
Hidden in here is a joke about how Bush had to use a poermac because the departing Clinton staffers stole the W from it (no longer a poWermac).
Securing systems IS relatively easy. Microsoft is by no means the best, but I setup workstations and servers all the time. If you know what your doing, the system will be reliable and secure. Ask me how many viruses my machines have gotten? None. Ask me how often I need to reboot? About as often as I need to reboot my linux box.
Of course there are better alternatives...they went for convienience. If they had linux, they would have to "train" all their employees who froze at the sight of a "new" operating system. That takes time and possibly more money then they paid for this deal.
Wrong use of word "disclaimer".
That you work for DHS says that you are speaking from personal knowledge and can thus be relied on. A disclaimer would be, for example, that your information comes from your sister's husband's brother's e-mail friend and thus you can not personally vouch for how good the information is.
homeland security has been mostly about stripping the citizens of their privacy..since MS has already done that to a large extent it would be most productive to just build on their database...
Bwahahahaha!!! S. Balmer
... the next will be when Bugatti releases an SUV.
Given that there is practically no defense being offered for Microsoft nor the Dept. of Homeland Security in the above discussion, one has to wonder why these large contracts keep occurring and occurring and occurring. If they aren't based on merit, then what? What hard arguments do companies provide to keep going along with Microsoft's products? It isn't as if there were no alternatives, historically, and TCO arguments are fallacious at best.
The state of the current software industry makes me feel as if nothing is real and there is no reward for quality. It is really discouraging and makes me wonder if churning out more and more software is becoming counter-productive to the health of our civilization. Add in the recent economy, and I am beginning to see non-software-development and non-systems-administration jobs in my peripheral vision. These jobs are becoming more attractive, and it is almost to a point, where finding a job with no computer in sight is a compelling thought.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Together they can look for enemies among us since the enemies not among us have discovered it's possible to run and hide after all, largely because the phony intelligence on which the War-of-the-Week is based continues to be the basis for policy long after the intelligence community that invented it no longer wants it to be believed.
At what point did we all wake up to find we're living in a Pynchon novel?
Given Microsoft's record of continual failure with regards to security, I've always thought putting MS in charge of security
RTFA.
This is not, by any stretch of the imagination, "putting MS in charge of security".
A significant number of people who work for Homeland Security will have Windows operating systems on their desktops and file servers. The same is true in virtually every large organization in the world.
Yup....we're definately screwed. Hell, just hearding the words "Microsoft" and "security" in the same phrase without a negation is disturbing.
M$'s track record with security is worse than Exxon Valdez's record doubled.
Plus, this adds to the $600 Hammer and $300 toilet seat issue.
this is very sad. just what we need wolves watching over lambs
It means "guarded condition", immediately above green ("low threat level") and below yellow ("elevated risk of terror attack"). Personally I find it redundant to have this department since the CIA, FBI, NSA, and DIA should have caught the 09/11 attacks before they happened in the first place. But nevertheless the "blue" level does exist.
n d/ bluecondition.html
_ th reat_chart_4.html
Links:
http://www.volusiahealth.com/eh/PocketPC/Homela
http://www.ch1hawaii.com/n/hlsec/national_alert
As long as there is a Second Amendment, there will always be a First Amendment.
so basicly now terrorists don't have to try as hard as before to get in and on top of that microsoft is still ready to take over the world....oh well could have been worse rather than msft/dell it could have been msft-HP or msft/e-machines *shudders*
I for one have seen less credible links posted over and over and over again. The old chestnut about the stalled Navy ship comes to mind.
Well, it might be that the Department of Homeland security itself is using Microsoft, but they might be the only ones. I work for a company that is directly involved with DHS and we use mostly linux software for the work we do. As a matter of fact, we are DoE contract and if it can be done in linux, we do it in linux, otherwise we succumb to the dark side. So there is hope yet.
Welcome to my friend list, RevMike. :)
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
As some of you may know, Computerworld sends out a free email newsletter. Here are two consecutive headlines from the July 16, 2003 Afternoon Update:
Microsoft Warns Of Widespread Windows Vulnerability
Homeland Security Department To Buy Microsoft Software
Sleep snug, guys.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
And Linux is any better?
DoHS is an aggregate of dozens of organizations all of whom had existing MS software. It was a no brainer for them to consolidate all of that into a master contract with better pricing and simplified tracking. They should do that to simplify things and save taxpayer money even if they ultimately move to alternative software.
All the people that complain about people who hold microsoft to a higher standard may want to consider that MS's biggest customer is the Federal Govn't, which is paid for by us, the tax payers. So in a limited, but actual way, we have a duty to hold microsoft to a minimum standard of fair play and honest business practices.
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
Exactly, and a ruling that MS's practices were monopolistic is questionable given the existance of Linux (who successfully competed against MS in Munich, for instance). The law is so vague that you don't even know you're guilty until the govt. decides you are guilty since there's no clear definition of what constitutes a monopoly. Apple practices are as anti-competitve as MS's. MS gets special treatment however because they crossed some secret govt threshold of market-share.
This guy has hit it on the head. You can't be a "convicted monopolist" and more than you can be a "convicted jerk" or "convicted capitalist".
The problem is that on slashdot, if you say something enough times, people actually are believing its true. There are so many examples of this wrt Microsoft and Linux, and this newspeak term of "convicted monopolist" is just one more example of this.
FreeUser seems to be such much of a troll as the so-called M$ astroturfer boogeymen.
Anyway, the poster you're referring to makes a very good point - once you homogenize everything, you make *everybody* vulnerable. So let's say Machine 1 is running SQL Server, and is hit by the slammer worm, then everyother machine that has SQL Server running can also be hit, and in turn hit other servers. This same scenario nearly took down the internet a while back, certainly could do the same at a major gov. office.
A simpler analogy is in science: let's say you introduce a new engineered corn, designed to withstand such and such, and fast growing etc. Now a certain plant disease, that evolves to not be harmed by whatever chemicals are used to grow the corn, simply lays waste to *all* the plants. Or think of the potato blight in Ireland in the 1850s. A final example is in cheese making, where if *all* bacteria is destroyed, it makes it easier for a dangerous bacteria to spread like wildfire, since there is no "good" bacteria to keep it in check.
Homogenization definitely has it's advantages, simplifies the job of the purchaser (write one check), and computer support (just call DELL), training (just one manual) but it also has it's costs - no way would I say this makes for a more secure environment. It does indeed make the system more susceptible to mass failure, which seems to go against the Army/Government philosophy.
I thought the CIA or some similar US government agency was working to add security features to BSD? What happened to these? This wouldn't be the first time that one hand of the government didn't know what the other was doing, but what gives?
I agree with you, but on second thought, after considering the following... I start to get, well... second thoughts.
Microsoft is not criticised by 80% of the people who could be concerned about it, mostly because it is politically incorrect to criticise Microsoft.
If you ever tried talking about security problems in Microsoft Windows, you are looked down upon, spit upon and humiliated, calling you naive, 'moron', 'zealot', 'liberal scum', 'unamerican', 'unpatriotic' and all such delightful epithets.
Even on Slashdot, about than 50% of Microsoft bashing is modded down or spit upon. You just don't want to see it, you just want to think that Microsoft is being unfairly bashed. Take a proper sample (not like the sampling of opinion polls in you-know-where leading to the false accusation of you-know-whom cheating) and you will see that Microsoft bashing is attacked almost with the same fervour.
Well, in this light, things aren't that bad or less objective.
Does this mean America will CRASH like Windows? I hope not!!!
Coders don't end comments with a semicolon. That would be a wasted keystroke.
How does a government justify continuing to deal with a criminal organisation?
When you're convicted of anti-trust violations, you're criminal in my book.
Oh wait, so is the government - my bad.
Homeland Security??
These stupid bastards can't even manage Desktop Security..
The war is over, America has lost, move along now..
"The reason that everyone (including the federal guvnment) still uses Microsoft is because, It Just Works(TM). "
;)
Until you need to change something. I thought Windows 2000 was not too bad for M$ until I wanted to see if I was using DHCP because it wasn't seeing my Ethernet in VirtualPC 6 on my PowerBook G4 12". The array of different places to look for network settings was frustrating and unintuitive. First, being a Mac user I have to say the interface of Windows is a joke. Second, Windows does NOT just work and IS Plug n Pray still. Macs just work. Maybe that's why the US Army uses them, according to Netcraft.
MacOS X would be the best solution, requiring less training and techies than Linux. Yes I have RedHat 8 on an AMD K6-II and I hate it and yes I know my cli gibberish but it's just too slow (openoffice takes minutes to start) and...it copies the Windows interface!? A copy of a copy of the Mac! Also Apple gives you unlimited licenses of OS X Server for $999 and they are rated best for customer service. Whereas M$...well everyone here already knows.
Windows would be the _LAST_ choice I would pick for mission critical computing. Honestly, we PAY these people to make these decisions?
I can see it now: "In other news today, there was a Million Man March of Linux geeks on the Capital protesting recent news of the DHS adoption of Window$..." Maybe someone will use cell phone "swarming" to organize?
It may be that years ago, you would have these
problems with non-windows OS installation, but
today that's just not true.
I'd say more, but why ?
Blue screen of ... "DEATH" is gonna take on a whole new meaning...
It doesn't matter which is more secure. The point is, neither is secure. And it is impossible to know which is more secure. You only know about the vulnerabilities that have been found,. Not the ones that haven't.
Vote for Pedro
I love how you just made up a bunch of sttistics.
Vote for Pedro
Microsoft should be stopped if this is not an example of monopolistic behavior what is ? And slashdot whose side are you on anyway ? Is microsoft giving you a check ? Have you sold out ?
If they had decided to use Linux, the whole "Homeland Security" department might actually represent a threat to the American people.
So basically jobs that were in other departments and moved into homeland security are going to keep using the same software.
ooh. fascinating
You know, for all bush's talk about being anti-big government he seems almost opposite. I mean for one thing we have the largest federal deficit ever, and secondly this whole homeland security thing just about the most 'governmenty' way of securing everything? I mean, the first they did was create this massive bureaucracy, and they did it by reshuffling other smaller bureaucracy into one. So rather then spending time and effort trying to do a better job, they spend all this money and resources in merging all this crap together.
And that's on top of all the shuffling bush did to get rid of all the 'clintonistas' in government.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Besides Dell/Microsoft, who were the other bidders for the contract? Was the invitation to bid on the contract properly published? Was the functional description properly quarantined and then simultaneously distributed to interested bidders? Were non-disclosure procedures adhered to during the functional description phase? What contractor had the contract for publishing the functional description? What were the standards in their statement of work? How long were each of the bidding organizations given to examine the functional description and prepare their proposals? Besides Dell/Microsoft, who were the top finalists and how were their proposals different from Dell/Microsoft? Why were two closely related companies awarded the contract? Why didn't the unsuccessful bidders file protests in accordance with government contractacting procedures? In other words, was the execution of the functional description so perfect that there are no possiblee grounds to protest? --- What comes to mind is another (back in the 80's and 90's) big government computer contract where the functional description phase took over 4 years (and massive amounts of man hours), then the selection phase took 2-3 years. How can the process now be so fast and so perfect?
Is that while some uber-hackers could decode a heavily-encrypted file, with a custom cypering mechanism (I assume they could design something) etc etc.... pretty much anyone could be suspect for mail interception. Not that the postal service wouldn't be lambasted if such a thing happened, but isn't the "real world" still more succeptible to abuse than the IT world?
Clippy: "Hi, I see you are editing an intellengence report, would you like me to:"
:(((
" a) Sex it up"
" b) Insert plagurised material"
" c) Delete parts that say Al Queda link unlikely"
Do I get a funny mod, huh, huh?? Or did I post too late
There is nothing about prevents the Feds from fully locking down their Win2K/XP/2K3 systems.
If they were getting Win95 it would be easy to say there are gaping holes and they're in trouble. It would also be easy to say data "just corrupts itself".
But on a properly setup modern system, whether it's NT-based or a *nix, it's not going to happen. Misconfigured software is the cause of most security problems, and because Microsoft's stuff is the most popular there is a larger body of people who don't know what their doing. But a properly locked-down modern Win32 environment is just as secure as a properly locked-down Linux or Unix one.
"There's a buffer overflow in IE6 if you do x".
Well, Homeland Security desktops aren't permitted to just browse the internet like you on your cable modem.
"There's a new email worm for Outlook"
Well, Homeland Security dekstops get every piece of email Bayesian filtered twice (get those 5 9's of protection) and all attachments are quarantined.
Just because *you* don't know how to secure a MS system, dont' assume it's not "securable". Anything that can be done on a Linux or Unix box to secure it can be done on a Windows box. Unless you count a lack of commercial software as a security feature, in which case Linux wins hands down.
fair.
//comments are for suckers
//coders read code
It does when it's the department of homeland SECURITY
Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.
How did you show that Linux security is flawed? By just saying it was?
> the contract amounts to a six-year agreement covering 144,000 desktops,
> worth between $110 million and $120 million [gcn.com].
$110+ M$ / 144K Desktops is over $763/desktop
And this was the LOW bid?
OK, you mods obviously are smarter than I am, so will someone please tell me WHY WHY WHY my parent post was a Troll? I just want to know why?
Was it because I used too much profanity? Why should that matter, my point is still valid and well thought out. I used profanity to illustrate my frustration with this topic, and because there is no rule that says I can't. If you don't like what someone has to say, you should deal with it and not just say, "you're an idiot" and mod them down etc.
Was it because you didn't like it? You should not mod based on your opinion of my idea, that is not the point of the moderation system.
Was it because it was Offtopic? Well then why didn't you moderate it as such?
Trolls are posts written with the specific intention of just pissing people off for the fun of it (e.g. crapflods, racist posts, etc.) and the way I see it my post does not fall under this category. So I ask again, WHY?
Given the amount of offshoring Microsoft is doing of development in Hydrabad- there is NO way Microsoft software is secure enough to run DHS on. Same with Oracle, and all the other big names in software today- think of it this way, would you trust YOUR life to a programmer making $2.50/hr?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
This statement directly contradicts a statement you made earlier in the discussion, saying that "Linux security is worse." Having said that, I think maybe you now see why that post was considered a troll.
It wasn't for "showing Linux security is flawed." We all know that it isn't perfect. It's just the information used to back up the statement saying MS is better than Linux when it comes to security was so seriously lacking that it amounted to being an annoyance.
Ummm, I think you have that wrong. It's more like asking the Sheep to guard the sheep...
"Remember the Federal government is already
Microsoft's biggest customer."
I thought the Federal Government was now a _subsidiary_ of Microsoft?