Part of the Mac model is that the menubar switches with the app you're using...
You just hit on the one thing that I hate most about OS X (and the rest of the Apple OS line, all the way back to the original Macs). Apple OS's are the only ones that have ever (AFAIK) done this. My Gnome menu does not change when I open GIMP. The Start menu in XP doesn't disappear when you bring up WMP. Why in Christ's holy name would you want it to?
Maybe some people really get distracted by having portions of other windows behind their active one still visible. Funny enough, that aspect of OS X never bothered me. I found it relatively easy to get used to the idea that windows generally exist on the screen and don't try to own the entire screen...
Contrast that with mulitple desktops. I sure don't, nor would I want to, do all my work on this desk. Maybe I've got one project going that's taking up most of my attention, which I would want on my desk, probably all over hell, in about fifteen piles, as you described. Further assume that I'm trying to file some unrelated papers at the same time. I don't want them next to my project, I don't want them under my project. I want them on the table behind me.
Its not a lemonade stand, you've got to go and GET the clients.
Exactly wrong. No one needs to go out and "GET" any clients. Let's break it down. Microsoft and other proprietary software companies' capital is... well, capital. Money. Lewt, if you will. FOSS's capital is entirely different. It comes in the form of more developers, more bug reporters, more people poking the nightly builds for defects, more people writing documentation. People coming over from Win* for the sole reason that it's cheaper/free are unlikely to contribute anything to anything.
I think we're looking at the issue from very different perspectives. You seem to think the goal is to take over the world. I thought the goal was to make good software.
I just finished an install of Xubuntu on and old Dell that came with *cough* ME (roommate's machine, I told her I wouldn't let her on the network with it). 128MB of RAM is enough to run Xubuntu Dapper, but barely (Firefox drags ass too). And to be honest, I just don't like the feel of XFCE, and, especially giving this back to a Win-centric non-geek, I can tell already I'm taking on a support hassle.
#10 - Wolfenstein 3D: Piss on your CounterStrike. The hell with Resident Evil. Fuck Doom. It started here. We love to kill the Nazis. #9 - Mario Kart 64: Eight characters, sixteen levels. A lifetime of discovery. As fresh today as it was the day it shipped. I don't care who you are, how many hours you've logged, we are all still learning Mario Kart. #8 - Final Fantasy 1: Forever changed the way video RPGs are made. Granddaddy of the genre. #7 - Baldur's Gate Series: Remember what I was saying about Final Fantasy? This game changed everything. Again. #6 - Tetris: The game that spawned the synonym "crack" for video games. The first game for which there were recovery groups. #5 - Super Mario 3: You don't even have to like it. Given the time and the technology, hands down the most innovative game ever. Ever. #4 - Grand Theft Auto Series: Completely immersive, worlds unto themselves. Great storylines. Characters with character. What else do you need? #3 - Civilization Series: What can I say that hasn't been said? Build 'em. Grow 'em. Kill 'em. Do it again. And again. And again. Fifteen years later, it's still getting better. Civ 4 is revolutionizing TBS all over again. #2 - Galaga: The #1 game of 1981. Put Namco on the map. The top-grossing arcade game in history. Bigger than Space Invaders, bigger than Pac-Man. Out there eating quarters in the back of a bar somewhere right now. #1 - Nethack: The deepest game in the world. Twenty-two years of development and counting. People play this game for ten years without beating it once. Welcome to Nethack!
For the record, that's not fascism, it's pretty much your garden-variety authoritarianism. If you wanted an example of the United States being a fascist entity, there are several. From Wikipedia:
"Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."
Feel free to chime in with comparisons involving neo-conservatism, fanatical Christianity, corporate lackey-ism, Manifest Destiny in the Middle East, or any combination thereof.
Iraq was invaded because they did allow inspectors in, giving the U.S. the opportunity to see that they were actually as defenseless as they appeared to be. Contrast with: Iran, North Korea.
After seeing some replies talking about old NES tricks, I decided to share mine. I have an old-school, side-load, Model 1 NES. Got it for xmas when I was six. It has long since passed the point where the "Breath of Life" will do it, but...it will work if (and only if) the console is upside down. I don't even remember now how I discovered this anomoly, but I swear to Christ it's true. It worked like that, uninterrupted and unmoved, for years. Then I moved into my new house, and my girlfriend hooked up the NES. Upside right. Wouldn't work. Flip it, it never fails. Let me emphasize, this is an original, first production run NES, circa 1985. And it has been running like a champ for going on twenty years.
...because it has a good interface for managing a lot of songs and playlists. I have yet to see (although if someone wants to point one out I'd be interested) a Linux application that is the equal of it...They want something that's a media player, a library manager, a file uploader, an ID3 tag editor, and a portable-device-syncronization manager.
I don't know. I ran the install, which seemed to work. The next time I restarted X (some hours later, IIRC), I got the X blue screen. The only thing I can even think of is perhaps it conflicted with the nvidia driver. Really, though, I have no idea, and since it was a fresh install, I decided I didn't have the patience or interest to fuck with it. Nor will I ever do so again.
Worthless Anecdote Alert: I used to be the same (Ubuntu for work, XP for games), then I, too, installed Cedega...and it phucked X so bad I had to reinstall Ubuntu. Now...I decided I don't really need to play games that often. There's one more almost-purely-Linux user.
Ooops, missed the checkbox. Well, now you know I think you're an unfunny douchebag. But hey, I can't mod on this article anymore, so ain't we both content?
Ubuntu is not a company, it is a community-driven distribution. Canonical Ltd. is a major financial sponsor of Ubuntu, but (AFAIK) provides very little guidance of the project.
I find your example counterproductive for two reasons:
1. We were specifically talking about small business. Any software rollout, even switching versions of Office, on the scale we'd be talking about with Wal-Mart would be an enormous challenge.
2. The price Wal-Mart pays for Windows licenses and the price a 10 person office pays for a Windows license are worlds apart. Which kind of blows your TCO arguement to hell. Cheaper for Wal-Mart? Maybe, but they're probably paying something like $15 a license.
In closing, you may be correct in the context of your example, but I don't find it very relevant.
How about contact management/call center software? Thats not a highly specialized software suite...you track your client base with it...name, address, record all communication....thats a very common program in the biz world (ie. Remedy, Siebel, Peoplesoft's Vantive). how many linux options are there, WITH SUPPORT?
I totally agree with you, but, having worked in a field where I dealt with such software constantly, I would classify it as "highly technical stuff." Useless-yet-telling anecdote: When I was working for said employers (a mid-sized telephone operator outsourcing business; we took operator calls for small telcos) in '00, we were using software that had been written fifteen years earlier. Why? It (barely) worked, and they were terrified to migrate. Which I can understand.
So yes, your example is spot on accurate, but it's not really what I'm getting at.
Im sure you have some specific example in mind that your hypothetical situation would work perfectly, but thats not the point.
Well, sure, if you want to call "the gajillion offices that really do just use their boxen for Word/Adobe/Excel/IE" a specific example, but I would call it something more like "half the business world."
The point of the main post is, will we see a significant migration from Windows to Linux due to the retiring of 98. My standpoint is "No".
I agree completely, and wasn't trying to say otherwise. Apologies if I was unclear on that point. What I am saying is that, for that "half the business world" I referred to above, it would not only be feasable to do so, but probably easier than upgrading to a new version of Windows.
And you can argue all you want about "Linux being as easy to use as XP." No matter how you slice it, you're going to have to re-train employees. Not just on the OS, but on the linux-based software that replaces your windows-based software.
I just think you're wrong. Unless it was a highly specialized field that used equally specialized software (in which case I'd say it's probably impossible anyway), what kind of retraining are we talking about? Examples, please.
There is no viable business argument for moving a non-techie small-business to Linux.
I'd say you have that exactly backward. It'd be much harder, IMHO, to move a highly technical business from Windows to Linux, than it would be to move, say, a retail store's back office (or any other non-techie business you could name), the sort of place that has maybe 10 computers, used mainly for bookkeeping, admin, and the internet. For needs like that, yes, I maintain that one platform is as easy as another, and could be picked up in a day or two, tops. Show me where I'm wrong.
Scenario 1 - Sees slashdot headline in RSS reader about '98 support being discontinued and a mention of Linux, which is free software that you've heard discussed every now and then - Ignores all matters critical to running his business--normally a 60hr/wk job--and learns about Linux and the different distros and which companies offer support
This is called reductio ad absurdum, kids, and it is not a respected method of debate.
- Calls Red Hat, or a Red Hat provider, and discusses the software, gets a demo, installs, tests, and orders the software and support contract
Yeah, just like any other acquisition. Just last week, I made the decision to switch paper suppliers at my business. Happens five days a week, all across this great land of ours.
- Tries to find software to replace all of the titles used in Windows - Trains employees or hires someone to train employees
That's either facetious or ignorant. Have you used desktop Linux in the last three years? The software is there (with a few notable exceptions, such as tax prep software, admittedly). And training? Come on. As for the desktop environments themselves, I'd go so far as to say both Gnome and KDE are easier to pick up than XP (from a Win9x user standpoint). As regards applicaitons, if you know how to use Word, it may take a day or two to pick up the parts of OpenOffice/Abiword/Gnumeric you'd need to use in an average day. But only if you're mildly retarded.
Scenario 2 - Calls Dell and orders 10 of their cheapest XP PC's shipped to their door at $500 machine.
Scenario 3 - Does nothing, crosses fingers, replaces PC's one at a time as they break
I agree that both of those are highly likely options.
The people that WANT to use linux are already using it. It's not as if a critical mass of people are JUST ABOUT to use Linux if only X would happen or Y would happen to nudge it along.
Then we are not talking to remotely the same people, because I hear that very thing at least twice a week (usually based on misconceptions of what people think Linux means).
Not to nitpick, because I do see your point, but ending slavery, you may recall, did require a revolution. Up north where I live, we call it the Civil War. Ending segregation, ditto. We call it the 60's, and before someone tries to get me on semantics, if cities are burning on a regular basis, you can call it what you want; I'm gonna call it a revolution.
I really like your post. Well said. One thing I'd like to comment on:
Anyway, what is going to contract is the retail distribution channels, such as movie theaters and music stores.
I think this needs to be qualified. Big-box stores, Sam Goody, Virgin, et. al., are certainly on the decline even now (the Sam Goody in downtown Minneapolis just went out of business, and they've been a mainstay for nearly as long as I've been alive). But I think that's a good thing, and very well might herald the return of actual record stores, as opposed to music malls.
People who care about music aren't going anywhere. If big-box music stores decline, someone will step in and pick up the market slack, and the only "someone" left is independent music stores. (Which makes me think: hmmm, I should ask the guy at Electric Fetus how they've been doing since Goody went under, I'll bet their numbers are up...)
...it's [the music industry's] market. They created the content, they can choose how to distribute it.
Bosh, bollocks, and bullshit. Sony does not write music. RCA does not play guitar. I have yet to see Virgin rock the ones and twos.
The "music industry" creates nothing. They control the distribution channel, and that through highly suspect and downright shady practices.
this is free market economics at work.
You are nuts. This is a government-sanctioned trust, which, by happy coincidence, controls the media outlets, thereby making it difficult-to-impossible for the demand side (consumers) to make remotely informed choices. This is the opposite of a free market.
Slashdot Mirror
You really need to keep up better.
Part of the Mac model is that the menubar switches with the app you're using...
You just hit on the one thing that I hate most about OS X (and the rest of the Apple OS line, all the way back to the original Macs). Apple OS's are the only ones that have ever (AFAIK) done this. My Gnome menu does not change when I open GIMP. The Start menu in XP doesn't disappear when you bring up WMP. Why in Christ's holy name would you want it to?
Maybe some people really get distracted by having portions of other windows behind their active one still visible. Funny enough, that aspect of OS X never bothered me. I found it relatively easy to get used to the idea that windows generally exist on the screen and don't try to own the entire screen...
Contrast that with mulitple desktops. I sure don't, nor would I want to, do all my work on this desk. Maybe I've got one project going that's taking up most of my attention, which I would want on my desk, probably all over hell, in about fifteen piles, as you described. Further assume that I'm trying to file some unrelated papers at the same time. I don't want them next to my project, I don't want them under my project. I want them on the table behind me.
Face it, *nix needs a marketing plan.
It needs no such thing.
Its not a lemonade stand, you've got to go and GET the clients.
Exactly wrong. No one needs to go out and "GET" any clients. Let's break it down. Microsoft and other proprietary software companies' capital is... well, capital. Money. Lewt, if you will. FOSS's capital is entirely different. It comes in the form of more developers, more bug reporters, more people poking the nightly builds for defects, more people writing documentation. People coming over from Win* for the sole reason that it's cheaper/free are unlikely to contribute anything to anything.
I think we're looking at the issue from very different perspectives. You seem to think the goal is to take over the world. I thought the goal was to make good software.
I just finished an install of Xubuntu on and old Dell that came with *cough* ME (roommate's machine, I told her I wouldn't let her on the network with it). 128MB of RAM is enough to run Xubuntu Dapper, but barely (Firefox drags ass too). And to be honest, I just don't like the feel of XFCE, and, especially giving this back to a Win-centric non-geek, I can tell already I'm taking on a support hassle.
Pete's Top Ten Video Games of Forever:
#10 - Wolfenstein 3D: Piss on your CounterStrike. The hell with Resident Evil. Fuck Doom. It started here. We love to kill the Nazis.
#9 - Mario Kart 64: Eight characters, sixteen levels. A lifetime of discovery. As fresh today as it was the day it shipped. I don't care who you are, how many hours you've logged, we are all still learning Mario Kart.
#8 - Final Fantasy 1: Forever changed the way video RPGs are made. Granddaddy of the genre.
#7 - Baldur's Gate Series: Remember what I was saying about Final Fantasy? This game changed everything. Again.
#6 - Tetris: The game that spawned the synonym "crack" for video games. The first game for which there were recovery groups.
#5 - Super Mario 3: You don't even have to like it. Given the time and the technology, hands down the most innovative game ever. Ever.
#4 - Grand Theft Auto Series: Completely immersive, worlds unto themselves. Great storylines. Characters with character. What else do you need?
#3 - Civilization Series: What can I say that hasn't been said? Build 'em. Grow 'em. Kill 'em. Do it again. And again. And again. Fifteen years later, it's still getting better. Civ 4 is revolutionizing TBS all over again.
#2 - Galaga: The #1 game of 1981. Put Namco on the map. The top-grossing arcade game in history. Bigger than Space Invaders, bigger than Pac-Man. Out there eating quarters in the back of a bar somewhere right now.
#1 - Nethack: The deepest game in the world. Twenty-two years of development and counting. People play this game for ten years without beating it once. Welcome to Nethack!
For the record, that's not fascism, it's pretty much your garden-variety authoritarianism. If you wanted an example of the United States being a fascist entity, there are several. From Wikipedia:
"Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."
Feel free to chime in with comparisons involving neo-conservatism, fanatical Christianity, corporate lackey-ism, Manifest Destiny in the Middle East, or any combination thereof.
-1 Wrong
Iraq was invaded because they did allow inspectors in, giving the U.S. the opportunity to see that they were actually as defenseless as they appeared to be. Contrast with: Iran, North Korea.
After seeing some replies talking about old NES tricks, I decided to share mine. I have an old-school, side-load, Model 1 NES. Got it for xmas when I was six. It has long since passed the point where the "Breath of Life" will do it, but...it will work if (and only if) the console is upside down. I don't even remember now how I discovered this anomoly, but I swear to Christ it's true. It worked like that, uninterrupted and unmoved, for years. Then I moved into my new house, and my girlfriend hooked up the NES. Upside right. Wouldn't work. Flip it, it never fails. Let me emphasize, this is an original, first production run NES, circa 1985. And it has been running like a champ for going on twenty years.
I'm gonna go play some 1943 now...
...because it has a good interface for managing a lot of songs and playlists. I have yet to see (although if someone wants to point one out I'd be interested) a Linux application that is the equal of it...They want something that's a media player, a library manager, a file uploader, an ID3 tag editor, and a portable-device-syncronization manager.
Ask and ye shall receive. gmusicbrowser
I don't know. I ran the install, which seemed to work. The next time I restarted X (some hours later, IIRC), I got the X blue screen. The only thing I can even think of is perhaps it conflicted with the nvidia driver. Really, though, I have no idea, and since it was a fresh install, I decided I didn't have the patience or interest to fuck with it. Nor will I ever do so again.
Wait a minute. You ejaculate bologna? That's got to hurt.
How does this qualify for a +5 Insightful? All you said there was "I don't like the color brown."
Worthless Anecdote Alert: I used to be the same (Ubuntu for work, XP for games), then I, too, installed Cedega...and it phucked X so bad I had to reinstall Ubuntu. Now...I decided I don't really need to play games that often. There's one more almost-purely-Linux user.
Plug-and-pray indeed.
Ooops, missed the checkbox. Well, now you know I think you're an unfunny douchebag. But hey, I can't mod on this article anymore, so ain't we both content?
-1 You're An Unfunny Douchebag
(Posting anonymously because I'm moderating. Yes, I modded you down, too.)
Ubuntu is not a company, it is a community-driven distribution. Canonical Ltd. is a major financial sponsor of Ubuntu, but (AFAIK) provides very little guidance of the project.
I find your example counterproductive for two reasons:
1. We were specifically talking about small business. Any software rollout, even switching versions of Office, on the scale we'd be talking about with Wal-Mart would be an enormous challenge.
2. The price Wal-Mart pays for Windows licenses and the price a 10 person office pays for a Windows license are worlds apart. Which kind of blows your TCO arguement to hell. Cheaper for Wal-Mart? Maybe, but they're probably paying something like $15 a license.
In closing, you may be correct in the context of your example, but I don't find it very relevant.
I think we're agreeing without realizing it.
How about contact management/call center software? Thats not a highly specialized software suite...you track your client base with it...name, address, record all communication....thats a very common program in the biz world (ie. Remedy, Siebel, Peoplesoft's Vantive). how many linux options are there, WITH SUPPORT?
I totally agree with you, but, having worked in a field where I dealt with such software constantly, I would classify it as "highly technical stuff." Useless-yet-telling anecdote: When I was working for said employers (a mid-sized telephone operator outsourcing business; we took operator calls for small telcos) in '00, we were using software that had been written fifteen years earlier. Why? It (barely) worked, and they were terrified to migrate. Which I can understand.
So yes, your example is spot on accurate, but it's not really what I'm getting at.
Im sure you have some specific example in mind that your hypothetical situation would work perfectly, but thats not the point.
Well, sure, if you want to call "the gajillion offices that really do just use their boxen for Word/Adobe/Excel/IE" a specific example, but I would call it something more like "half the business world."
The point of the main post is, will we see a significant migration from Windows to Linux due to the retiring of 98. My standpoint is "No".
I agree completely, and wasn't trying to say otherwise. Apologies if I was unclear on that point. What I am saying is that, for that "half the business world" I referred to above, it would not only be feasable to do so, but probably easier than upgrading to a new version of Windows.
And you can argue all you want about "Linux being as easy to use as XP." No matter how you slice it, you're going to have to re-train employees. Not just on the OS, but on the linux-based software that replaces your windows-based software.
I just think you're wrong. Unless it was a highly specialized field that used equally specialized software (in which case I'd say it's probably impossible anyway), what kind of retraining are we talking about? Examples, please.
There is no viable business argument for moving a non-techie small-business to Linux.
I'd say you have that exactly backward. It'd be much harder, IMHO, to move a highly technical business from Windows to Linux, than it would be to move, say, a retail store's back office (or any other non-techie business you could name), the sort of place that has maybe 10 computers, used mainly for bookkeeping, admin, and the internet. For needs like that, yes, I maintain that one platform is as easy as another, and could be picked up in a day or two, tops. Show me where I'm wrong.
Scenario 1
- Sees slashdot headline in RSS reader about '98 support being discontinued and a mention of Linux, which is free software that you've heard discussed every now and then
- Ignores all matters critical to running his business--normally a 60hr/wk job--and learns about Linux and the different distros and which companies offer support
This is called reductio ad absurdum, kids, and it is not a respected method of debate.
- Calls Red Hat, or a Red Hat provider, and discusses the software, gets a demo, installs, tests, and orders the software and support contract
Yeah, just like any other acquisition. Just last week, I made the decision to switch paper suppliers at my business. Happens five days a week, all across this great land of ours.
- Tries to find software to replace all of the titles used in Windows
- Trains employees or hires someone to train employees
That's either facetious or ignorant. Have you used desktop Linux in the last three years? The software is there (with a few notable exceptions, such as tax prep software, admittedly). And training? Come on. As for the desktop environments themselves, I'd go so far as to say both Gnome and KDE are easier to pick up than XP (from a Win9x user standpoint). As regards applicaitons, if you know how to use Word, it may take a day or two to pick up the parts of OpenOffice/Abiword/Gnumeric you'd need to use in an average day. But only if you're mildly retarded.
Scenario 2
- Calls Dell and orders 10 of their cheapest XP PC's shipped to their door at $500 machine.
Scenario 3
- Does nothing, crosses fingers, replaces PC's one at a time as they break
I agree that both of those are highly likely options.
The people that WANT to use linux are already using it. It's not as if a critical mass of people are JUST ABOUT to use Linux if only X would happen or Y would happen to nudge it along.
Then we are not talking to remotely the same people, because I hear that very thing at least twice a week (usually based on misconceptions of what people think Linux means).
What about the freedom of citizens to not be spammed by (potentially abusive) phone calls?
Yeah, tell my creditors about that one. I don't think that's a "right," dude.
Not to nitpick, because I do see your point, but ending slavery, you may recall, did require a revolution. Up north where I live, we call it the Civil War. Ending segregation, ditto. We call it the 60's, and before someone tries to get me on semantics, if cities are burning on a regular basis, you can call it what you want; I'm gonna call it a revolution.
I really like your post. Well said. One thing I'd like to comment on:
Anyway, what is going to contract is the retail distribution channels, such as movie theaters and music stores.
I think this needs to be qualified. Big-box stores, Sam Goody, Virgin, et. al., are certainly on the decline even now (the Sam Goody in downtown Minneapolis just went out of business, and they've been a mainstay for nearly as long as I've been alive). But I think that's a good thing, and very well might herald the return of actual record stores, as opposed to music malls.
People who care about music aren't going anywhere. If big-box music stores decline, someone will step in and pick up the market slack, and the only "someone" left is independent music stores. (Which makes me think: hmmm, I should ask the guy at Electric Fetus how they've been doing since Goody went under, I'll bet their numbers are up...)
Try the Slashdotter extention for Firefox.
...it's [the music industry's] market. They created the content, they can choose how to distribute it.
Bosh, bollocks, and bullshit. Sony does not write music. RCA does not play guitar. I have yet to see Virgin rock the ones and twos.
The "music industry" creates nothing. They control the distribution channel, and that through highly suspect and downright shady practices.
this is free market economics at work.
You are nuts. This is a government-sanctioned trust, which, by happy coincidence, controls the media outlets, thereby making it difficult-to-impossible for the demand side (consumers) to make remotely informed choices. This is the opposite of a free market.