The Top 5 Games of All Time

An anonymous reader writes "The guys over at trusted reviews have come up with lists of their top five games of all time. There are some obvious choices and some very obscure ones, but on the whole its interesting reading. See how their lists compare to yours."

Comments

Online Scrabble & Chess..

[WinEveryGame]

What about Scrabble and Chess? These have the busiest game rooms on online play sites such as Yahoo Games.

Re:Online Scrabble & Chess..

[SharpFang]

If the title meant ALL TIMES, then yes, chess or some card game would likely win. Same as Bible is the ultimate bestseller of all times.

Re:Online Scrabble & Chess..

[pookemon]

Ahh - this it the list of THEIR favourites. Not yours, or mine, but theirs... If you can convince them that they like Scrabble or Chess better than the games in the list, then maybe they'll update the list for you.

Re:Online Scrabble & Chess..

[indifferent children]

If the title meant ALL TIMES

What about Duke Nuke'em Forever? The term "ALL TIMES" includes future times (and even far-distant future times).

Re:Online Scrabble & Chess..

[SharpFang]

Sure, but know what's my opinion about DNF?
Do you remember Daikatana?

Re:Online Scrabble & Chess..

[indifferent children]

Sure, but know what's my opinion about DNF?

If it's true that "Good things come to those who wait.", then DNF will be the best game ever !

Re:Online Scrabble & Chess..

[cayenne8]

Perhaps I should email them to check out Robotron, one of the best games ever!!

I still have to re-enforce the control panel of my MAME machine to keep from ripping the joy sticks off it when in the 'heat of battle'.

What? No Freebird?

[BadAnalogyGuy]

This list sucks!

Re:What? No Freebird?

[jsharkey]

Wow, I'm blinded by that yellow pacman! I don't think he's seen the light of day for years. :p

Re:What? No Freebird?

[andersa]

Where is Aztec Challenge?????

Best music and gameplay, like.. evaahhh

Re:What? No Freebird?

[Sillygates]

I think they made a mistake, I can't find starcraft listed anywhere on that review!

Re:What? No Freebird?

[Lotana]

While we are complaining, where are:
      Planescape Torment
      Descent: Freespace 1 & 2
      The Longest Journey
      System Shock 1 & 2
      Knights of the Old Republic
      Sid Myer's Alpha Centauri
      Baldur's Gate series
      Thief series
      Deus Ex (first only)
      Morrowind
      Fallout 1 & 2
      Grim Fandago
      Homeworld
      Icewind Dale series
      Myst series
      Total Annihilation

And these are just off the top of my head. I am sure I had forgoten some.

Re:What? No Freebird?

[rtyall]

You think that's bad, there's no Big Rigs or Charlie's Angels. Heresy I tells ya.

Re:What? No Freebird?

[ColaMan]

Forget freebird, where the hell's pong, for chrissakes?

Re:What? No Freebird?

[Flyboy Connor]

The site is slashdotted, but if THESE games are missing, they miss all of my favorite ones (except maybe some LucasArts adventures, but I have no real hope of them being on the list)! What is the world coming to?

Re:What? No Freebird?

[Xichekolas]

And to top that off, where is X-Com: UFO Defense and Age of Empires II: Age of Kings?

Re:What? No Freebird?

[Cruise_WD]

Agreed. Of the twenty-five games listed (five reviewers picking five games each), I'm amazed none of those you listed made it.

To that list I'd have to add Final Fantasy 7, X-Com: Enemy Uknown, Max Payne, Elite and School Daze, at least. Though my actual top five would probably be:

FF7
X-Com: Enemy Unknown
Morrowind
Total Annihilation
Deus Ex

Which tells you my favourite genres (RPG and strategy) too. And of those five, I've actually only completed two (X-Com and TA). All five however are still installed on my machine and are still being played to this day. I need more free time :/

Re:What? No Freebird?

[egr]

add Starcontrol 2, Another World, FlashBack, Full Throttle

Lists Lists Lists

[Freaky Spook]

Have all of these news/blog sites run out of things to write about because it seems this year everywhere has been inundated with dam lists.

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[pookemon]

Inundated? Go on then, list the Top 5 lists we've been inundated with... ;)

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[Anonymous Coward]

Dam lists? As in lists that hold back water? I'm confused.

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[EEBaum]

Indeed.

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[astromog]

The top 5 dams of all time: 1. Hoover Dam 2. Benmore Dam 3. Grande Dixence Dam 4. Keban Dam 5. Verzasca dam.

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[SurturZ]

You forgot

0. God Dam

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[stefankoegl]

like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_lists ?

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[TeknoHog]

And in case you're atheist:

-1. Bud Dham

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[GR1NCH]

Grand Coolee Dam? http://users.owt.com/chubbard/gcdam/highres/dam08. jpg

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[GR1NCH]

More...

Grand Coulee Dam is a large hydroelectric dam located on the Columbia river in Central Washington. Made from 12 million cubic yards of concrete, Grand Coulee Dam is the largest concrete structure in the United States and the third largest hydroelectric facility in the world. Sharing the river with 10 other U.S. dams, Grand Coulee is the first dam encountered on the Columbia after the river enters the U.S from Canada. Lake Roosevelt, the reservoir created by the dam, contains 9 million acre-feet of water and streches over 150 miles back to the border.

Grand Coulee Dam fills three primary rolls. First, with its 24 generators providing up to 6.5 million kilowatts of power, it is a major provider of electrical power to the Northwest. Secondly, water pumped from behind the dam provides irrigation for over half a million acres of the Columbia basin from Coulee City in the north to Pasco, WA in the south. Finally, by strictly regulating the Columbia's highly variable flow rate, the dam provides much needed flood control to the river basin.

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[master_p]

You forgot Jean Claude Van Dam! :-)

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[Himring]

Hi, this is the dam tour. I'm your dam guide. Let me know if you got any dam questions.

You got any damn bait?

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[elrous0]

Speaking of escorts, let us not forget the dental dam.

-Eric

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[Elad Alon]

This one's my favourite, since about yesterday: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_porn_stars_wh o_appeared_in_mainstream_films

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[ephemere]

I prefer the term "karma escort."

I prefer the term "karma companion." (There you go...Firefly reference and earworm all at once)

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[Shadowlore]

The top 5 dams of all time: 1. Hoover Dam 2. Benmore Dam 3. Grande Dixence Dam 4. Keban Dam 5. Verzasca dam.
You forgot the top dam of all time:
God Damn

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[Verity_Crux]

You forgot my favorite: the dam parking fee. And I wanted to throw the dam parking fee attendant over the dam fence.

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[briggsb]

You need to read the list of the five reasons you shouldn't list to blog lists. I wish more people would take its advice.

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[Gulthek]

An atheist wouldn't believe in the concept of Buddha either.

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[thegnu]

Did you know that there are over 2 million dams in the US? And so many dams over 6 ft tall that at one dam a day, it would take 200 years to blow them all up? Stats courtesy of Derek Jensen.

Oh by the way, say goodbye to all the salmon.

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[TeknoHog]

An atheist wouldn't believe in the concept of Buddha either.

I think you need to learn more about Buddhism. It's fundamentally a form of atheism, and Buddha is certainly not a god. The word Buddha means an enlightened being, the kind that a Buddhist strives to become. It also refers to the founder of Buddhism, Siddhartha Gautama. So, in a sense, Buddha is comparable to Mohammed or Jesus.

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[SnakeEyes]

you forgot the "Van Damme." :)

Re:Lists Lists Lists

[donaldm]

Picking the best games is really in the "Eye of the Beholder" (sorry could not resist that). The easiest but not necessarily the best way is to look at sales, but for many the best games are the ones they enjoyed.

Er, random?

[HatchedEggs]

I really didn't think that all of those should be as highly ranked. Granted we all have those that we are most attached to... but there had to be better ones that several they posted.

Re:Er, random?

[Moofie]

So, you're going to bag on their opinion, and not offer one of your own? OK then. Thanks for sharing.

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

This list looks much more like a bunch of people trying to prove their gaming 133TN355 by claiming obscure favorites. I'll site as an example Dungeon Explorer. For starters the author of the article refers to the system it came out on by its Japanese name "PC Engine" rather than what it was marketed as in the US, "TurboGrafx-16", which is what most American gamers would know it as (I myself was confused for a few minutes until I remembered this fact). Then there's the very fact that this person is naming it one of their top 5 games ever. I've played Dungeon Explorer. Allot. Me and my older brother played the hell out of it when I was younger. It was great. But to call a slightly more advanced Gauntlet one of the best games of all time is absurd.

There's plenty of other examples to go from on the list (like naming civilization instead of civ2), most of which is comprised of good games that didn't sell well, are really old, came from systems most people didn't own or some combination of the previous three. "Good games" is the key phrase here too. Most of the games on the list are in fact good games, they're just not, for the most part, top 5 list worthy.

So in summary, I felt like I was reading an article written by those kids we all knew in school who wouldn't listen to anything that sold over 10,000 albums just so they could look cool.

Re:Er, random?

[nickos]

For starters the author of the article refers to the system it came out on by its Japanese name "PC Engine" rather than what it was marketed as in the US, "TurboGrafx-16", which is what most American gamers would know it as

On the first page of the article he says he's from the UK, where neither the PC Engine or TurboGrafx was released officially. If you're going to buy a console on import, which would you rather have, a cute PC Engine with loads of Japanese games or the ugly Turbografx with the games released in the US. I'd pick the PC Engine any day.

Re:Er, random?

[Urza9814]

Just because they list a bunch of old games doesn't mean they're doing it to be cool. I dunno about you, but I much prefer the original Command and Conquer to the newer Generals. Why? Because they actually bothered to give it decent gameplay instead of just assuming people would buy it for the graphics. Most modern games are just lazy attempts to clone an older game and throw in better graphics. They decided to base their top 5 games on gameplay instead of graphics. Wish more people would do that.

Re:Er, random?

[iainl]

Riyad is from the UK, as if I needed to read the whole article to tell; the guy has the good sense to pick Chaos as one of his top 5. I can assure you that all of us who lusted after the thing when it came out called it the PC Engine; it was only later I found out that you Americans had a different name and a different, really, really ugly case for it.

Re:Er, random?

[bullsh** people]

First of all, the site is UK based so maybe open ur eyes that not everything circles around the United States and not necessarily everybody uses ur terms.
Second of all this is the opinion of i think 5 different people not a whole-world-does-it-that-way like ur implying, so as u probably know different people = different opinions. So next time u're gonna try to slag an article try to do some research beforehand and maybe use ur brain just a little bit so that it won't overheat....
And by all means please don't feel intimidated by the fact that i'm a girl:)

Re:Er, random?

[Gr8Apes]

First, great games are games that influenced entire genres. That said, out of their lists, I notice the following that meet those credentials:

• Commander Keen
  
• Day of the Tentacle
  
• Lemmings
  
• Civilization
  
• Monkey Island
  
• Doom
  
• Sim City
  
• Half Life
  
• Counter Strike
  

Every single one of these games were top sellers in their day, most were critically acclaimed in one way or another, and each set a new standard when they came out. Many have also inspired sequels, in fact, several on the list are sequels/copies in and of themselves (Doom, Half Life, Counter Strike) but each set a new standard. (Speaking of, where's Castle Wolfenstein, the title that started id?)

You'll notice that racing/flight sims are not among them, because I'm not sure that there's ever been a ground breaking racing or flight sim. They're all incremental improvements from the early early vector drawn sims, which were not much more than 2D wireframes with color fills. (Note: I don't play them because I don't like them, so I'm obviously negatively biased)

And to say Civ II was better than Civ is ridiculous. Civ II was a horrid game. Civ III was considerably better, but each was a minor improvement over the previous version. Do note that Civ itself has most of the gameplay, Civ II was eye-candy with some bug fixes. The eye-candy was so resource instensive that for those of us that liked the gameplay of Civ, it completely ruined the game by making turns take far too long. A far better game than Civ II+/Alpha Centauri genre was Galactic Civilizations (first came out on OS/2, Windows was much later) which actually had real AI that at least followed the same rules players did. As a side note, GalCiv might be one of the first effectively multi-threaded games, IIRC.

In closing, I'll say that the most popular games, or the newest games, aren't necessarily or even commonly the best games. Look at the enduring solitaire, chess, and tetris for examples of games that are just fine as they were years ago.

Re:Er, random?

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to this little thing called "the rest of the world". Once you've come to terms with the shocking realisation that there are places that are not part of America, and that there are humans living in those places, and that some of those humans even speak English, you will be ready to begin discovering all sorts of other interesting facts -- for example, that certain console systems had different names outside America, that certain computer systems that were practically unknown in America were very common in other places, and that many games you consider obscure are extremely well-known in other parts of the world.

Have a nice day, as you Americans say.

Re:Er, random?

[EnderGT]

And to say Civ II was better than Civ is ridiculous. Civ II was a horrid game.

You'd better be prepared to back that statement up... I have always held Civ II to be my personal favorite of all time. I play it with all the animation and "eye candy" turned off. Turns take forever, sure, but that's because I generally have about 200 units and 40 or so cities (at least). I find it to be a vast improvement over Civ I. The graphics are slightly better, but its the additional units, additional city improvements, etc that spice up the gameplay and appeal most to me.

If you're talking about Civilization: Call to Power, then I agree with you.

That being said, I've never played Civ III or IV, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. What I've seen of Civ III, though, I didn't like - again, this is screenshots, not play.

Re:Er, random?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be silly. Civilization was a way better GAME than Civilization 2. All Civ2 added was bugs, bad performance, annoying cutscenes, having to boot into Windows (3.x) to play it, and the hideously awful perspective graphics that made it impossible to estimate how many turns it'd take to move a unit from point A to point B. It was like Star Control 3, all about flashy multimedia crap that only hurt the game but made for pretty screenshots. I felt royally ripped off when I bought it.

Re:Er, random?

[Anonymous Coward]

I never played Civ I, so I cannot judge. But I loved Civ II. I didn't even like Civ III. I liked a lot of their innovations, but it really failed to come together for me.

I think Civ IV is what Civ III was trying to be. Which is good. Frankly, I want back some of the things they dropped from Civ II: complex espionage options, global warming as a serious threat, nukes which are actually powerful, the little touches like the advisors, and so on. It's hard to even have a large empire beyond Civ II; they were trying to combat infinite city sprawl, but I'd like a slightly higher limit. And so I play on lower difficulty levels, but then the AI isn't as challenging. *sigh*

On the other hand, I really like the way culture, religion, and resources were added to the game, and these are major additions. I also like the new corruption scheme. The diplomacy is hit and miss.

However, it definitely suffers from resource intensiveness and was unplayable in the late=game until I got a new computer very recently.

Re:Er, random?

[Gr8Apes]

Turns took far too long even early in the game. Compared to Civ, things took forever. The "advisors" were annoying as hell and were turned off immediately. I'm trying to remember back to then, as I tried to play it a couple of times and just hated the interface and gameplay. Oh, and it wasn't any harder than Civ. AI was dumber than rocks, even on high difficulty (1 step under their most difficult).

In any case, it diverted me for a couple of days and since it was free, I can't complain too much.

I don't know whether I "defended" my position well enough to satisfy you, but for further information - I was involved in CivNet way back when, and also documented a considerable data to the CIV FAQ, which still hangs around odd corners of the web and provides amusement to my wife when she searches for my name on Google. Civ II actually has some of my work in it. You'd think I'd be kinder.

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

I couldnt verify this and I could be completely wrong but I would assume the Turbo was regioned coded (like most game systems). If this was the case than a British person would likely want the American version vs the Japanese so they could play games in 100 percent English. Plus getting something like the Turbo imported from the US into GB would be far easier during the 80s than it would be getting it from Japan, not to mention getting games from the US would be easier as well.

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

My issue is they seemed to have named alot of good obscure games over alot of great well known games. Of course there's no way for me to know this, it's just what this list seems like to me.

Also (for clarity), my opinion of games on the list is not based entirely off graphic quality. I completely recognize the fact that game play is more important.

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

Well for starters some of those games I really don't think were as ground braking as you seem to. Furthermore, at least a few of those games have sequels or similar titles released later by the same developer which were just plain better. SimCity is the best example of this as number 2 is basically the same game only you have more control over zoning. More control over what you're doing in a Sim strikes me as a good thing.

As for your specific bit on Civ1 vs Civ2, you'll have to let me get something straight with you. You're telling me Civ2 was a "horrid game" because you didn't have a powerful enough computer to run it quickly? That's the only reason I see given there and if that's the problem it sounds like much more your own problem than the games.

In further defense of Civ2, the game offered a bit more than "eye-candy with some bug fixes" over Civ1. The world maps were bigger (this was a huge bonus for me), there were added units, additional wonders, and extra technologies. None of these additions took away from the experience and they all added to some degree or another. The improved graphics were a big deal for me as well as it made it far easier to stare at the game map for hours on end. The core game play on Civ1 and Civ2 is virtually identical, Civ2 just offers a bit more to its players.

Re:Er, random?

[Anonymous Coward]

You misspelled realization.

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

I'm not sure I follow. The TurboGraphx wasn't even released in the UK (as some one corrected me on) thus making it even more obscure then it would be to me here in the US. All of those super early PC games are obscure just by virtue of the fact that computers didn't have much in the way of market penetration at the time of their release, especially compared to consoles (this is universally true).

I really don't see how my post was US centered at all except for my mistake in not noticing these people were writing from GB (and given the fact that slashdot is a US centered site as stated by the admins this wasn't a completely off the wall assumption on my part). This one mistake really doesn't change any of my points.

So yeah, "Have a nice day".

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

small correction on my part in "...would be far easier during the 80s than it would be getting it from Japan". "80s" should be "80s and early 90s".

Re:Er, random?

[Gr8Apes]

Furthermore, at least a few of those games have sequels or similar titles released later by the same developer which were just plain better.

I stated as much and that even some on the list were sequels. Whether a sequel is better than the original is irrelevant if it doesn't break new ground. That goes straight to the heart of why Civ 2 wasn't a great nor groundbreaking game. You make my point with:

The core game play on Civ1 and Civ2 is virtually identical, Civ2 just offers a bit more to its players.

Other than that, eye-candy isn't the most important thing in a game to some of us. That extra time the eye-candy took to display it's little flourish is time I was waiting to make the next move. I wasn't thinking about it, I was strumming the desk waiting for the next move. I was playing that on a 128MB PPro with an at the time high-end Matrox card. Hardly a "bad computer", as it exceeded every requirement listed:

• Pentium 200 MHz
  
• 32 MB RAM
  
• 235 MB hard-disk space
  

Speaking of which, I recall playing Command & Conquer on that in a window with full sound running under OS/2. CC should be on any list such as the one we're talking about, as it was definitely a ground-breaker. (FYI: Civ 2 was played under Win95)

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

Just because a game is ground breaking does not make it a better game (which seems to be your hole argument now). If the first game in a series is ground breaking but the second offers more game play options and more fun without sacraficing anything then the sequel would be the better game. Hands down.

As an example, I love the traditional base building, military, RTS game. Certainly the PC (and later the sega genesis) game Dune 2 was revolutionary in this venue (as the first of the base building, military, RTS games) and I played this game for hours upon hours when it came out on both platforms. Would I name it the best in the genre or name it one of my top five games? Hell no. There have been so many better RTS games based on this concept since then. I might look back on it fondly but it certainly does not offer the game play options of say StarCraft or any of the countless other RTS games based on this concept.

In regards to Civ2, all of the true eye candy like the advisors, thrown room and city view could be turned off or just plain not accessed by the user (I will readily admit that these options were in fact frivolous). The other graphic improvements that took place on the main game screen made Civ2 so much easier to look at and for a turn based game which players often spent hours looking at, this was much appreciated. When I go back for nostalgia gaming I reach for Civ2 rather than Civ1 because it offers me more game play options and better graphics while not sacrificing any of the brilliant game play from Civ1.

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

I also love how offensive posts like this are always done under "anonymous coward". grow some balls. if you're really insightful you'll be rated as such. if your not you'll rightfully lose karma. I've got +1 karma running right now and I never post under the coward option (and trust me, I say some offensive/stupid things sometimes)

The option to post anonymously on slashdot is terrible.

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

ur

lol

Re:Er, random?

[nickos]

Yep, IIRC it was region encoded. When I was growing up in the UK there was a bit of a subculture around imported Japanese games, and they're not really that difficult to figure out. The language differences just made the games feel more exotic... We also didn't have any problems getting games as there are shops that specialise in such things.

Re:Er, random?

[bullsh** people]

I am!!!!
And I am not a geek!lol
Hope you got my point, though:)

Re:Er, random?

[Gr8Apes]

I never stated that a ground breaking game was a better game. I stated great games are are games that influenced entire genres. I then stated that Civ2 was a horrid game compared to Civ, and why. You responded that you could turn off the admitted time-wasting frivolty, which would reduce Civ2 to a slightly improved Civ wrt gameplay and with better graphics. So technically, yes, under that circumstance, Civ2 would be a better game than Civ, but is it a great game? I'd say it's the new and improved version of a great game.

Regarding Dune 2: I looked it up and don't know how I missed that one when it came out. Probably too engrossed in Civ! Since I don't have any experience with it, I can't comment further on it. However, WestWood Studio's later effort, C&C, was by far the best RTS I had played up to that time. (Starcraft appealed to me a little more at a much later time) I haven't loaded C&C since before 2000, so I cannot say how it plays today, except that I recall a single strategy would always let you win (read "boring") which actually detracted from C&C. Note that a great game needs to also be fun to play. If a large leap has been made since the original, then that game could also be considered a great game, to the point it might push out the original. Check the list for Doom, Half-Life, and CounterStrike. I could actually make the argument that Half-Life should knock Doom off the list as Doom apparently knocked off Castle Wolfenstein (the first in the genre). Take a look at which one's still being played - it's not Doom. And then what about Quake? It defined a whole genre before HL. In any case, the list was interesting to say the least. :)

Out of the list of my GGGP post I think I might play them all still, with the exception of Doom and Sim City. Would I load Civ today provided I could even find the game and an OS to load it on? (Not as big a leap as you might think, I have a working P166 w/ Win95 sitting on a shelf in my closet:). I don't know that there's anything left in that game to challenge me. I might load Civ 2 or 3, as I have both on the shelf, just to see what changed. Heck, with today's computers, it should at least be fun. As I just loaded a sacrificial OS, maybe I'll load these and see how they play today.

As a side note - I recently finished a couple of rounds on GalCiv II, a fine game by StarDock Systems (no DRM!!!). Played on Difficult, it actually requires you to pay attention. That's a huge improvement over most, but it's still easily beatable once you understand what strategy is being deployed against you. The God/Impossible level I didn't try, something about being hamstrung at 50-75% of your enemies resources and growth would seem to make it extremely difficult, especially if you were up against the insectoid multiply strategy - basically, they just grow large planets with tons of population, generating massive influence which causes a cascade effect as other planets fall under the effect of their influence. Somehow there should be a mitigating factor wrt quality of life before influence should cause defections. Just IMHO of course)

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

I'd say it's the new and improved version of a great game.

Wouldnt that make it a greater game? I'm pretty sure it would. If I have a cookie that tastes great and then am handed a similiar cookie that tastes even better I'm certainly not going to say the first one is my favorite.

In regards to Dune 2, it was an exceptional game for the period. Certainly not as good as modern RTS games but given the fact that it is truely the first of its kind it is an exceptional game. The game was re-released for modern OS's around 1999-2000 if you're interested in playing it. (the Genesis version features smaller maps due to the systems limited power so it would be best to try the PC version)

And as far as GalCiv II, havent had a chance to play it yet but I hear the AI is at least interesting.

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

Well I'll have to take your word for that as I have no way to either verify or disprove your claims. I would suggest however, that since the TurboGrafx was not officially released in the UK it was even more niche than in the US. If that then is the case it only furthers my point that they are going out of their way to name niche games.

Re:Er, random?

[Gr8Apes]

I agree it'd be a great game, sometimes. In the case of Civ II, out of the box the eye-candy detracted immensely from game-play. But, does it deserver to be on a list of greatest games? That's a tough question and one for the list's author.

GalCiv II's AI is definitely interesting. I may give it another go around. Note that your choices at the beginning for map layout will also affect the types of strategies that can be used (against you and by you both - I like the fact that the AI is limited to the same strategies you are).

I'l have to give Civ another round someday.

Re:Er, random?

[skam240]

Hope you got my point, though:)

I don't think you got mine. I was making fun of your lame internet short hand and not commenting on you being a girl. "ur" is not a word.

Your entire post is also irrelevant. It doesn't matter where the authors are from. The fact that they are in the UK only makes the system rarer, which only strengthens my point.

My favorite part is when you tell me you're a girl though. That has nothing to do with anything and why would I care?

No RTS games in the lineup?

[EmperorKagato]

Starcraft isn't that good of a game worth mentioning? Knights and Merchants?! Age of Empires?

Re:No RTS games in the lineup?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not taking into consideration that the whole thing is BS.

This is as good as writing an article of the best 5 songs of all time. disregarding genre`, age, etc.

And who on earth decided that these are the top 5 games? I don't see any "we asked x number of people".

If dumb articles like this get slashdotted and generate all that ad revenue, then I should probably make one of these sites and retire early!!

Coming soon on my site, the best 10 restaurants in the world to me.

Re:No RTS games in the lineup?

[Anonymous Coward]

And who on earth decided that these are the top 5 games? I don't see any "we asked x number of people".

That would probably be because you haven't bothered to look at the article.

Actually, the answer is blindingly obvious just from the Slashdot summary, but for dim people like you their methodology is described in excruciating detail on the very first page that the summary link leads to.

Re:No RTS games in the lineup?

[umghhh]

while we are at listing our own preferences I have a short list of my own. It contains one entry only.
1. Baduk - it is by all means the oldest game for which a computer or other electronics are used. Ever since introduction of internet go servers.

There is no need for any other game.

okay seriusly

[nude-fox]

what the fuck i saw 5 top games list of all time and when i klicked the link it gave me some 29 page shit now call me crazy but it dosent take 29 fucking pages to tell me your favorite top 5 games

The Real Best Games

[VirusEqualsVeryYes]

Tch. Everyone knows that the real top 5 are:

1. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
2. Halo 2
3. Half Life 2
4. Counter Strike
5. Battlefield 2

All my 11-year-old neighbors told me so.

Re:The Real Best Games

[jcenters]

Sounds about as good, if not better than their list. I've been a gamer for over nineteen years, and I have to say that Counter-Strike and BF2 are two of the best online shooters ever, GTA:SA is truly a revolutionary game that has more content than you can shake a stick at, and Half Life 2 has the best pacing of any game I've played.

My buddy and I spent most of the summer arguing over the best games of all time. The problem? How do you determine? Do you go by pure fun factor, or do you also consider timelessness, innovation, and/or influence? For instance, Super Mario Bros. is one of the most influential titles ever, but most would consider Mario 3 or World to be superior. Which one wins out?

Though they made an excellent point with Blade Runner, which IMHO is perhaps the best graphical adventure ever made.

My picks for the best games, based off my own personal enjoyment:

Best Single Player FPS: Doom (Close second would be HL2)
Best Online FPS: Quake
Best JRPG: Final Fantasy VII
Best Western RPG: Oblivion
Best Platformer: Super Mario World (Mario 3 is a damn close second, NSMB a somewhat distant third)
Best Sports: NBA Jam (Second place goes to the NFL2K series)
Best Arcade: Yar's Revenge
Best Strategy: Advance Wars: Dual Strike
Best Text Adventure: Zork
Best Overall: GTA: San Andreas (Say what you will, but what other game combines action, stealth, racing, rhythm, basketball, arcade games, and even a dating sim into a huge, open world? Combine with a great plot and RPG elements, and you have what is perhaps, to date, the ULTIMATE game.)

Re:The Real Best Games

[Cokeisbomb]

I think everyone that has really played games will agree with me on the following list: 1. RBI Baseball (NES) 2. Tecmo Super Bowl (NES 3. Simcity 2000 (Windows 3.1) 4. Half-Life (Windows 98) 5. Civilization (I,II,III, IV, and hopefully V)

Re:The Real Best Games

[Anonymous Coward]

You missed one of the best parts of GTA:SA, the humour.

Re:The Real Best Games

[packman]

You have clearly never played Duke Nukem 3D :)

Re:The Real Best Games

[Cederic]

>> Best Online FPS: Quake

Quake was neither the first, the most ground-breaking, or the best. It is perhaps the most overrated.

>> Best Western RPG: Oblivion

I'm confused. Oblivion does have an amazing game world, immense diversity of activities, total freedom of character advancement, beautiful graphics and intersting storyline. It also has an immensely flawed levelling system that frankly breaks the game.

Fix the levelling system and it's definitely a contender. As released, sorry, no.

>> Best Sports: NBA Jam (Second place goes to the NFL2K series)

The review site is a UK one. Too many football (erm, soccer) games (a couple of which featured) that are far more appealing than any minority sport like basketball.

Throw in driving games (PGR is probably my favourite, although F1GP was truly a classic) and golf games (I still seek a golf game even remotely close to being as much raw fun as Microprose Golf) and I must disagree with you very strongly.

>> Best Strategy: Advance Wars: Dual Strike

How on earth can such a limited game possibly be the best strategy game? Even disregarding the pantheon of 8-bit strategy games, you've put it ahead of all the RTS games (many would say Starcraft, I preferred Warcraft but consider Total Annihilation the best RTS of all time) and ahead of far better turn-based games (Battle Isle, HOMM, Civ). Throw in the Total War series and it seems you've had very little exposure to this genre.

Best Overall: GTA: San Andreas

A great game, but strangely one I find repetitive. Ultimately it boils down to "drive fast, shoot accurately" and there are better driving games out there and better shooting games.

The control systems of the Battlefield series (BF1942, BF:V and BF2) would be interesting in the GTA universe - proper shooting from vehicles, better camera work, etc.

Still, everyone's different. Always fun to compare lists, thank you for sharing yours.

Re:The Real Best Games

[aurelian]

Best Overall: GTA: San Andreas (Say what you will, but what other game combines action, stealth, racing, rhythm, basketball, arcade games, and even a dating sim into a huge, open world? Combine with a great plot and RPG elements, and you have what is perhaps, to date, the ULTIMATE game.)

Apparently Duke Nukem Forever will have all of those - they've delayed it a bit to get the dating sim just right.

Games every gamer should try

[DrStrangeLug]

1. Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Best Civ Game Ever , Dispite not being a true civ game.
2. Halflife. Enough said.
3. Deus Ex. This is how game storylines should work - smartly.
4. Hostile Waters . You can pick this up now for less than a 10 and you'd be a fool not to.
5. Spore - Hurry up and release the damn thing! And I WILL torrent it from the US while I wait for a UK release if they do that staggered release date crap.

Re:Games every gamer should try

[SRA8]

What is wrong with you people? The top 5 are undeniably: 1. Legend of Zelda 2. Civilization 3. Super Street Fighter II 4. Dune II 5. Doom

Re:Games every gamer should try

[Gherald]

Ok, I'll deny it, because:

Starcraft > Dune II
Counterstrike > Doom
Baldur's Gate 2 or Deus Ex > Zelda

You seem to be listing some top "groundbreaking" games, and that's a little different.

I'm not really into things like Super Street Fighter, so I wouldn't know. My list would have Tetris instead.

At least we agree on Civilization :)

Re:Games every gamer should try

[ultranova]

Spore - Hurry up and release the damn thing! And I WILL torrent it from the US while I wait for a UK release if they do that staggered release date crap.

If you haven't played Spore yet, then how do you know that it's a game "every gamer should try" ? Sure, it sounds good, but so did Black & White. In fact every game that has a halfway competent marketing department sounds good. That's what marketing departments do, they make shit look like gold.

I really think you should play the game before recommending it to anyone. Unless, of course, you're part of the marketing department...

Re:Games every gamer should try

[balloonhead]

How about Solitaire?

That must be the most played at least...

(Part serious, part joking).

Re:Games every gamer should try

[GoatMonkey2112]

The great thing about Deus Ex... you can't pronounce it without it sounding like "day of sex".

Re:Games every gamer should try

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think Baldur's Gate or Deus Ex really compete with Zelda, or each other, for that matter. All are great games, to be sure.

I'm going to have to agree with you on Starcraft...and, of course, Civilization.

Re:Games every gamer should try

[Khaotix]

Deus is pronounced Deh-yoos, not day-us

PONG ???

[Anonymous Coward]

If it doesn't include Pong, then it's not a real list.

Not a single mention of nethack!

[Virak]

What is this blasphemy doing on slashdot?!

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[pthisis]

Seriously. It's been in constant development for decades now, game play (and balance) continues to improve, and it's the ultimate in learning curves--insanely difficuly but incredibly fun when you first start playing, excellent learning curve all the way through where you can get further and further with just exploration, and with time you can learn to win more than half the time and yet it's still fun.

1. Nethack

2. X-com UFO Defense

3. Grand Theft Auto III

4. Doom/Wolfenstein 3D (I'm undecided)

5. Starflight

Honorable mentions (unsorted): Contra, Archon, Hitman, Ultima IV, Counterstrike, Autoduel, Dune II, Tetris, Civilization, Bard's Tale, World of Warcraft, Simcity, Wing Commander

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[ultranova]

Seriously. It's been in constant development for decades now, game play (and balance) continues to improve,

Yeah. It keeps on getting new and interesting ways to die :).

I don't think a game where you can actually die in god mode (by getting your brains eaten by a mind flayer) is very "balanced". Altought the ability to make a succubus into a pet makes up for it ;).

And now I began wondering how to add a dating sim to Nethack. Argh.

insanely difficuly but incredibly fun when you first start playing, excellent learning curve all the way through where you can get further and further with just exploration, and with time you can learn to win more than half the time and yet it's still fun.

Well, actually you still always lose. But at least you'll get past the first level, after having learned the most important rule - don't fight, run.

I mean, really. This game throws Death, Pestilence and Famine against you at the final level - after you've fough through Hell twice and elemental planes once. By what twisted logic is that balanced ?-)

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[varshar]

Nuts to all constricted little "top 5 lists". Here're the top 135...

001-005. 1830 Railroads & Robber Barons, A Mind Forever Voyaging, Abuse, Alien Breed, Amazon - Guardians of Eden
006-010. Ascendancy, AssaultTrooper, B-17 Flying Fortress, Betrayal at Krondor, California Games 2
011-015. Cannon Fodder, Cannon Fodder 2, Chuck Yeager Air Combat, Civilization 2, Colonization
016-020. Crime Wave, Duke Nukem, Dune, Dune 2, Elite
021-025. Elite 3 - Frontier & First Encounters, Elite Plus, Eric the Unready, Falcon AT, Flashback
026-030. Hidden Agenda, Ignition, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Jagged Alliance, Jagged Alliance - Deadly Games
031-035. Jazz Jackrabbit 2, King of Chicago, Kings Quest I, Kings Quest II, Kings Quest III
036-040. Kings Quest IV, Kings Quest V, Kings Quest VI, Knights of the Sky, Laura Bow 1
041-045. Laura Bow 2, Leisure Suit Larry 1, Leisure Suit Larry 3, Lemmings, Lemmings 2 - The Tribes
046-050. Lotus 3 - The Ultimate Challenge, MDK, Maelstrom, Maniac Mansion Deluxe, Master of Magic
051-055. Master of Orion, Metal Gear 2, Moonstone, Nethack, Oh no - More Lemmings
056-060. Operation Europe - Path to Victory 1939-45, Pandemonium, Panzer General, Perry Mason, Pinball Dreams 2
061-065. Pirates, Pirates Gold, Police Quest 1, Police Quest 2, Police Quest 3
066-070. Populous 2, Prehistorik 2, Prince of Persia, Prince of Persia 2, Quest for Glory 3
071-075. Raptor, Red Baron, Reunion, Rome, Settlers 1
076-080. Settlers 2 Gold, Silent Service 2, Silpheed, Skyroads 3D, Skyroads Xmas
081-085. Sopwith 2, Space Quest 1, Space Quest 2, Space Quest 3, Space Quest 4
086-090. Space Quest 5, Star Control 2, Star Flight 2, Star Trek, Star Trek TNG
091-095. Star Wars - Tie Fighter, Star Wars - X-Wing, Syndicate, System Shock 2, Test Drive - Triple Pack
096-100. Tetris, The Bards Tale, The Bards Tale 2, The Bards Tale 3, The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring
101-105. The Secret of Monkey Island, Transport Tycoon Deluxe for Windows, Tyrian 2000, Ugh, Ultima Collection
106-110. Weird Dreams, Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego, Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego Deluxe, Wing Commander, Wing Commander - Kilrathi Saga
111-115. Wing Commander - Privateer, Wolf, X-Com - Apocalypse, X-Com - Terror From The Deep, X-Com - UFO Defense
116-118. Xenon 2 - Megablast, Yes Prime Minister, Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders

And for good measure,

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Battlefield 1942
Burnout 3: Takedown
Crimson Skies
Freespace
Half-Life 2
Homeworld
Mafia
Ico
Pacman
Shadow of the Colossus
Deus Ex: Conspiracy
M.U.L.E
Seven Cities of Gold
Tetris
Grim Fandango
Planescape: Torment

Cheers!
- varun

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[psymastr]

Rogue-likes are fun, but my problem with them is the extreme repetitiveness. You start the game, do some stuff, go on, get killed, you have to start over no matter how far you went.

I loved ADOM and I played it for hours but I eventually got bored of the constant fear that I'll get killed and have to start over.

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[GreggBz]

Ahh.. glad to see someone mention Starflight.
I liked it so much I'm recreating it.

Props for Autoduel, Bard's Tale, Wing Commander and SimCity also.
Where has all that boyhood wonder gone?

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[recordMyRides]

I've actually been hankering to play some UFO Defense recently for some reason. I found the CD in a bargain bin some years ago, but I can't get it to work under win XP. Anyone have any suggestions for going about that?

And the top 5 are:
1) Diablo II
2) X-com UFO Defense
3) Masters of Magic
4) Gain Ground
5) Halflife / Counterstrike

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh hell yeah, now those are some good games. Starflight may be my all time favorite.

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[Ralliy]

Use Dosbox, it's a x86 emulator with DOS and it will run many old dos games.

get it here: http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[raynet]

Good list, I would just replace Nethack with Nethack+, which was a patch the prevented you from dying in lack of food. Basicly when you were low on food going down a level would create an edible monster or a food store or food rations. And haven't played GTA, thus Elite would be good replacement for it. I still have the cassette version for Commodore 64. Another good games to add as honorable mentions are Solomon's Key, Master of Magic, Pitfall 2 and Lucasarts adventure games.

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[stony3k]

And even with such a large list, you missed Fallout 1 & 2 *grin* That explains how stupid it is to even try to come up with such a list.

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[Salamande]

You know, I've always wondered...is it actually possible to finish Nethack without reading spoilers? Has anyone ever just gone through completely using trial and error? I don't think it's possible...or if it is, it would be like winning the lottery. There are just way too many stupid ways to die, through no fault of your own.

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[SevenHands]

No mention of original Zelda from NES? That game is probably the only old game I played while a kid and am still coming back to it at least once a year to play through. I'll take Zelda and an emulator over chicken soup any day when I'm out sick.

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[steveo777]

Honestly, I think your best bet would be to go find a P200 with Windos 95 for the retro-gaming. Otherwise, I haven't a clue.

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[pthisis]

Good list, I would just replace Nethack with Nethack+, which was a patch the prevented you from dying in lack of food.

Food is the early game clock in nethack. Learning proper food management isn't hard, and by forcing new players to eat a lot of different monsters they start learning which ones give them valuable resistances quickly.

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have the DirectDraw Windows re-release (Collector's Edition) and are experiencing the distorted graphics on load issue. f0dder's fix is what you need.
http://f0dder.has.it/

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[pthisis]

Rogue-likes are fun, but my problem with them is the extreme repetitiveness. You start the game, do some stuff, go on, get killed, you have to start over no matter how far you went.

That's what makes them fun--you have to learn to live, not just save and keep loading every time you mess up. There are a zillion ways to play the early game if you _really_ get bored anyway.

For instance, try "dive for victory"--only explore long enough to grab a pickaxe and a musical instrument (many elves start with the latter), then dig straight down to the castle. Guillotine the occupants and grab the wand of wishing.

Or try the "protection racket" play as a pacifist and have your pet do the fighting. Make it to Minetown at XL:1 and you can buy cheap protection to get to naked AC 0.

The former is _very_ dangerous but the payoff is huge (at least 4 wishes after spending one on charging). If you pull it off it's almost a guaranteed ascension for decent players.

The latter is somewhat worse odds than playing it straight, but good players can manage it 80% of the time or so; when you do, you're pretty well set for a while.

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[pthisis]

You know, I've always wondered...is it actually possible to finish Nethack without reading spoilers?

I believe it's possible but I've never heard of it happening.

Someone (who was posting as he went along--google "Ellora the Archer") made it pretty deep into Gehennom before their cat stepped on the keyboard and messed it up--he had all of the core resistances and was playing very carefully, I guess the major question is would he have figured out how to do the invocation (there's an oracle message about that which he may or may not have gotten already, but he was returning to the oracle regularly).

My best was getting to Gehennom unspoiled back when entering without fire resistance killed you; if I'd done that one version later, I would've had a chance to go pretty far (but I believe I lacked magic resistance, and I certainly didn't know it existed, so I would've been killed by Rodney in all likelihood had I survived that far).

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[pthisis]

Well, actually you still always lose. But at least you'll get past the first level, after having learned the most important rule - don't fight, run.

The key is make sure you learn something every time you die, and make sure you apply that lesson to future games. The first ascension is by far the hardest.

I mean, really. This game throws Death, Pestilence and Famine against you at the final level - after you've fough through Hell twice and elemental planes once. By what twisted logic is that balanced ?-)

Of course, by that point you're War incarnate yourself. Gehennom, the planes, and Astral (the final level) aren't highly dangerous to most characters who make it there (exceptions for people trying speed ascensions, pacifists, and other odd conducts), as long as you excercise reasonable caution.

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[raynet]

So true, but the plus version was so much more fun to play casually, especially at my age when I didn't speak english that well and there was only BBSes and 2400bps modem to access any hints about the game...

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no reason to die from lack of food in nethack. Ever. Not only is the dungeon practically lousy with food sources, there are rings of slow digestion, wands/scrolls of create monster, and as a last resort, prayer. I mean, there are crazy people who successfully ascend with the amulet, without eating anything at all, for the entire game!

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[Junior J. Junior III]

That's because Nethack isn't a game... Nethack is life.

Re:Not a single mention of nethack!

[pthisis]

There's no reason to die from lack of food in nethack. Ever. Not only is the dungeon practically lousy with food sources, there are rings of slow digestion, wands/scrolls of create monster, and as a last resort, prayer. I mean, there are crazy people who successfully ascend with the amulet, without eating anything at all, for the entire game!

Eating monster corpses whenever you kill something that isn't poisonous and you aren't satiated will get you a long way. Save your food for when you need it, and if you have no other options then you can pray.

Other off-the-wall ideas:
Amulet of life saving will reset your hunger if you starve to death with it on.
Polymorphing yourself resets your hunger (best when paired with polymorph control).
One guy did a liquid diet--potions of fruit juice and so forth give some minimal nutrition.

Avoid at all costs

[Anonymous Coward]

Top 5 games of all time. 30 pages. Fuck these guys.

Re:Avoid at all costs

[Anonymous Coward]

MOD UP PARENT

Ok, two things, I've never done a MOD-UP so get off my back. And secondly.

I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet. I'm flat-out sick of people putting out articles to get Digg'ed /.ed etc. These are usually a Top X reasons/tips/etc for ______. Get over it!

So Top 5 games of all time needs 29 pages??? Granted, they have the "top 5" from a few different people, but then it's not really a Top 5 is it?

I think this is inspired by Toms Hardware. Over there it has really gotten to be rediculous in this regard. You can't really read a full article anymore since they spread it out over 30 add laden pages. I'm all for making money, but there's no reason to Sell Out.

of all time?

[Anonymous Coward]

This certainly isn't an "of all time" list. The vast majority of the games are from the last 15 years and it's very heavy on console games (No Zork? Or Pac Man?). As a gamer (tabletop, arcade, PC, and even consoles) I have NEVER understood the appeal of gaming consoles. 20 years ago consoles were a worthwhile investment since they could smash computers in every area except input (mouse/joystick/keyboard vs. crummy gamepad). At this point computers smash consoles in every area, and two genres (FPS and RPG) are literally impossible to realize with the crippled input devices provided with your typical console.

Re:of all time?

[legoburner]

The best 'top X games of all time' site is GameRankings. You can sort by user votes or by reviews from magazines. The only problem is that 'all time' only goes back as far as 'N64' as that is when they started parsing reviews. Still worth a look though as it does not have 30 pages of adverts and is quite a nice search engine.

Re:of all time?

[tubs]

20 years ago? 1986.

Commodore64
Spectrum
Amiga
The PC wasn't even on the horizon as a gaming machine.

I don't think I would have put any of those below the consoles that were available 20 years ago.

Even 15 years ago (1991) the Amiga (well in the UK, and Germany) ruled the gaming roost.

Maybe 10 years ago you could argue that - the orginal PS vs the first Command and Conquer. Doom had boosted everyones hardware specs and DuneII had laid the path for C&C.

Trusted Reviews?

[The Bungi]

OK, so we have 29 pages, each with ~6 paragaphs of text and at least four large animated banner ads.

Quality of layout and choice of graphics aside, this is really a pointless review. But who exactly are these people at TrustedReviews.com? Since when do they exist, and why are we supposed to trust them?

And why does Slashdot keep posting what they write again and again?

Re:Trusted Reviews?

[Chaffar]

But who exactly are these people at TrustedReviews.com?

Personally, I usually tend NOT to trust companies or people who ask me to just trust them. Me: Hum... Are you sure this wifi card comes with linux drivers? Retarded Store clerk: Of course! Trust me, it's my JOB, I know what I'm talking about... Me: Mind if I make you sign this declaration swearing that this card comes with linux drivers? Retarded Store clerk: ... let me check with my manager [disappears through this small previously unnoticed door and never comes back]

Re:Trusted Reviews?

[Anonymous Coward]

And go figure, all the stories are submitted anonymously. I wonder how much Taco gets for each one?

Re:Trusted Reviews?

[SevenHands]

"at least four large animated banner ads" Not in this browser! Adblock rules.

29 trusted reviews later

[shawn443]

and I just puked advertisements.

Re:29 trusted reviews later

[Firehed]

I cheated. Clicking on the drop-down and just reading the titles is so damned easy. Well, not for copying and pasting the list in here for karma whoring, but it was interesting to see DOTT make it in there. And Jedi Knight... I wish I still knew where my discs were for that.

I couldn't think of five

[Petrushka]

Hmm. I got as far as

• Ultima IV
• Civilization II
• Unreal Tournament (classic)

and couldn't bring myself to add others. While things like Half Life, Starcraft, Deus Ex, BG2, Rogue, and Grim Fandango are all great games, they either didn't change the way I thought about games in quite the way the above three did, or else I don't still enjoy playing them. Rogue and Deus Ex were great, but I just don't play them now, or not much. I don't think Half Life has quite the perfect storyline it needs to make a top five list. Anyway, I'll settle for a top three.

Re:I couldn't think of five

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (GENESIS)
2. Outrunners (ARCADE)
3. Street Fighter II (SNES)
4. Battlefield 1942: Desert Combat (PC)
5. Doom (PC)

honorable mentions: Super Mario 3 (NES), Quake III (PC), Formula 1: Built To Win (NES), Mist (PC/MAC).

Re:I couldn't think of five

[birder]

I'd go with Ultima V over IV.

Ultima V
Wizardy I
Planetfall (Infocom)
Doom
Deus Ex (what the hell, I'm running out of ideas)

My own list

[nsayer]

Not that my opinion is worth a damn, but it's free.

bzflag, because it remains the premiere open-source 3d multiplayer game, in my view.

Doom, because it practically reinvented the FPS, both in terms of originality of gameplay and graphics quality.

Tempest, because it represents the pinacle of the vector game. No, it wasn't the most advanced one, but best in terms of gameplay, look, adictiveness, and quite frankly, unit sales.

Robotron, because it is the best adrenaline pumping game ever made. Retire the cup.

Pac-Man, because of its sheer iconic status. There were games before Pac-Man, and games after Pac-Man. But anyone can look at any game and immediately be able to say with certainty which group it belongs in. No other game of its time can say that.

Honorable mention goes to Myst, which, like Doom to the FPS, represented a redefinition of the adventure game.

You're welcome.

Re:My own list

[Ours]

Honorable mention goes to Myst, which, like Doom to the FPS, represented a redefinition of the adventure game.
Redefined as a boring series of pretty postcards with puzzles in-between? I'll have my Monkey Island instead any day of the week.

Re:My own list

[jamesh]

Doom, because it practically reinvented the FPS, both in terms of originality of gameplay and graphics quality.

You obviously never wasted a summer playing wolfenstein 3d then?

Doom would make the list for bringing in network multiplayer though. The amount of time I wasted with cheap network cards, cheap (probably not proper 50 ohm network quality :) coax and making network terminators with a coax connector, a 50 ohm resistor and a soldering iron... just to play a multiplayer game of Doom :)

Then there was trying to run TCP/IP over a dos SLIP packet driver to a linux box with 4 serial ports in it, before we could afford network cards

Re:My own list

[Saint Fnordius]

Myst redefined the adventure series by not stating the goal, by creating the idea of simply exploring the world and eventually getting a goal. It was as nonlinear as possible. In many ways it was more of a successor to Zork than any LucasArts or Sierra Online title was. By the time it was ported to the PC (it was originally a Macintosh-only title), there were copycats already in the market (Sliver, Obsidian, etc.).

Of all the LucasArts/Sierra Online titles, though, I think Full Throttle was the best game of that style. The storyline, action and humor were all dosed just right, and the puzzles made sense (well, more sense than in most games).

Oh, if you're wondering why I'm grouping Sierra Online and LucasArts together, it's because both used a similar interface of an on-screen protagonist and a command window. Both had linear plots, with little branching.

Re:My own list

[MartinJW]

My top five - not because I like them, but because they marked turning points in game history, and were generally considered good games.

• Space Invaders
• Pac Man
• Doom
• Diablo 2
• WoW

Re:My own list

[Anthracks]

Wish I had some mod points for ya. Ever since Myst came out, there have been about 3 quality adventure games total. Myst seems to have given developers the green light to "redfine" Adventures as boring, barely-interactive slideshows.

Gabriel Knight III, Syberia and The Longest Journey being the exceptions I can think of off the top of my head.

Re:My own list

[Curate]

Pac-Man, because of its sheer iconic status. There were games before Pac-Man, and games after Pac-Man. But anyone can look at any game and immediately be able to say with certainty which group it belongs in. No other game of its time can say that.

There were games before Duke Nukem Forever, and there will be games after Duke Nukem Forever. Anyone can look at any game and immediately be able to tell with certainty which group it belongs in.

What? No Panzer Dragoon Saga?

[Anonymous Coward]

The best games of all time would definitely have to be: Panzer Dragoon Saga (also known as Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG in Japan) - an absolutely phenomenal game that no one has obviously played.

Panzer Dragoon Saga has set the benchmark for all games, and there is nothing in the past, present, and possibly even the future, that can dominate this incredible gaming experience. PDS is the way gaming should be.

My two cents.

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of my favourites:

Wasteland
Ultima 7
Castlevania (especially Symphony of the Night)
Legend of Zelda
Star Control 2

Re:My two cents.

[Anonymous Coward]

And, what the hell, Nethack. I can die happy now that I've ascended.

Early bungie games

[Hachey]

I'm sorry, but the ol' days of Bungie before they got bought out by Microsoft (man, at the time I was thinkin' that was a cold day in hell) had one of the best games of all time. Marathon. Little is it known but this game gave _birth_ to the rocket jump. The story line was friggin phenomenal. It could be scary as hell. Coming out just a year after doom, it made all the right changes (larger deathmatches, multiple floors per level, etc). And let us not forget the game that gave birth to the age old crazy AI video game meme. That was a golden egg for sure.


and one more thing... Frog blast the vent core!!!!

Re:Early bungie games

[Moofie]

I loved playing King of the Hill in that circular arena, where the "hill" was a stripe across the diameter. Grab the biggest weapon you spawn near, get to the stripe, and run back and forth blasting anybody you can see. Die. Repeat.

That was The Zone for me. I'd stop thinking, and just play. That was good, good times.

Re:Early bungie games

[jscheelmtsu]

I remember Marathon! My buddy and I were the computer lab assistants in middle school. All of the computers were macs, and the teacher had no clue how to use them. We found a copy of Marathon and put it in hidden folders on all of the computers, so that we could play it whenever and wherever we wanted during classtime. Thanks for reminding me about that, those were good times!

Re:Early bungie games

[Anonymous Coward]

Best of all, now you can download Marathon for free!
http://www.the7thwar.net/ventcore/downloads/

Beacuse it's 5 games for EACH of the reviewers

[spoco2]

You could at least have just clicked on the contents dropdown to see that.

Re:Beacuse it's 5 games for EACH of the reviewers

[srh2o]

Sorry I don't care how many reviewers these 29 page articles are ridiculous. I am so tired of these damn Burma Shave articles

Re:Beacuse it's 5 games for EACH of the reviewers

[spoco2]

I realise that it's all for the ads, but realistically, each page has a lot of content, with screenshots, detailed rundown of the game etc. It's a lot better than I've seen on other sites.

If there are 5 reviewers (I didn't count), then a game a page plus some extra fluff for intros and you have 29 pages.

Coral cache

[Sagachi]

It's already slashdotted... here's the CC link.
http://www.trustedreviews.com.nyud.net:8090/articl e.aspx?page=8102&head=0

What?

[Sathias]

What? The particular game which I would have included if I made the list myself wasn't named? What an outrage!

missing game

[macadamia_harold]

See how their lists compare to yours

My #1 favorite game is "hide the sausage". Wonder why they didn't list that one.

Re:missing game

[trash eighty]

er this is slashdot dude, you may have to explain that one

Re:missing game

[sir_montag]

I'd always heard of that one but I never could seem to find it on the shelves anywhere. I couldn't even find it on any of the abandonware sites. How old is this game??

Re:missing game

[shintaro]

>How old is this game??

Its old, very old, trust me. I have proof that it was released before you were borned. ;P

Re:missing game

[sir_montag]

Ohhh... So it's a board game?

Re:missing game

[smittyoneeach]

The fact that the list was about video games was implicit.

At the risk of sounding un-American, I'm disinterested in watching you "get your game on" in a personal way.

Such voyeurism would take away from getting my own on. Or /.ing, for that matter.

I suppose you could YouTube yourself, as a popularity check.

Re:missing game

[xarak]

The multi-player or RPG versions of that are my favourite.

Re:missing game

[gEvil (beta)]

I like to play it as a tabletop game. But, truth be told, it can be played anywhere.

Re:missing game

[theneb]

you mean "bury the sausage in the bun" right?

Re:missing game

[clonmult]

I've always found it more enjoyable played outdoors.

Re:missing game

[argStyopa]

My #1 favorite game is "hide the sausage". Wonder why they didn't list that one.

I think one of the requirements was that the reviewers had to have had experience playing the game.

Re:missing game

[Anonymous Coward]

First person shooter.

Re:missing game

[Anonymous Coward]

AC: "First Person Shooter"

Aye, for many folks here, it was and may still be.. /ducks.

I always prefered the 2 player option. Have yet to try the multi-player mod tho.

How can these guys call themselves gamers?

[lewp]

Mario 64 instead of Super Mario Bros. 3 or Super Mario World?
Ocarina of Time instead of Zelda or A Link to the Past?
Jedi Knight instead of KotOR?
Formula 1 GP instead of Gran Turismo?
Unreal Tournament instead of Quake?
No Starcraft?
No Final Fantasy (take your pick) or, at the very least, Chrono Trigger?
No Grand Theft Auto?

I'm missing a bunch I know, but I've only been thinking about this for a few minutes.

Nobody even went oldschool and mentioned a true classic like Donkey Kong, Pit Fall, Pac Man, or Space Invaders.

Which video games are the "best" is ultimately pretty subjective, but they've picked sequels that undeniably weren't the best in their series even. Everyone's got their "out there" pick for an obscure game that they happened to get hooked on, but how can you put those in a "top 5 games of all time" list when there are absolute masterpieces that are basically the same game done better?

Glad I didn't bother to RTF this A and just skimmed the list of games.

Re:How can these guys call themselves gamers?

[lewp]

Shoulda thrown my own list in there:

1) Chrono Trigger
2) Doom
3) Super Mario Bros. 3
4) Starcraft
5) Tetris (mainly because of Tetrinet... so addictive)

Re:How can these guys call themselves gamers?

[Cederic]

>> Formula 1 GP instead of Gran Turismo?

F1GP was a masterpiece. Accessible to absolute beginners, graphics you couldn't believe, a physics model you could believe in, high speed crashes to die for (or in) and tweakable to the extreme. Oh, and damn good fun to play. And multiplayer. And way way ahead of anything else out at the time.

>> Unreal Tournament instead of Quake?

Definitely. Every serious online gamer I know preferred UT to Quake, and every beginner got into it more easily too.

UT2003 I'll concede did suck.

>> No Starcraft?

No Warcraft 2, Total Annihilation or xx:Total War either, all of which are superior to Starcraft.

Re:How can these guys call themselves gamers?

[iainl]

Yeah, they've gone for Mario64 instead of any of the 2D ones, Chaos instead of Starcraft and F1GP instead of Gran Turismo. That's because they've got better taste than you.

Or at least, taste that better reflects mine...

Re:How can these guys call themselves gamers?

[Anthracks]

To be fair, Ocarina of Time was a fabulous game IMHO. Link to the Past was amazing too, but it's hard for me to pick a favorite.

Totally agree on KotOR though, one of my favorite RPGs of the last 5 years.

Re:How can these guys call themselves gamers?

[Junior J. Junior III]

The conclusion I draw from this is that there are a lot more than 5 video games.

That IBM chairman guy in 1943 was just way off on his estimate of the potential world market.

Come to think of it, 1943 is a pretty fun game ;-)

Re:How can these guys call themselves gamers?

[AddictedToBeef]

Jedi Knight instead of KotOR?

Jedi Knight and KotOR aren't really related, other than both being Star Wars-based titles - Jedi Knight and its sequels are FPS (although they're largely played in third-person mode), while KotOR is an RPG. I don't necessarily see that they're picking one instead of the other - it's kind of like complaining that they picked Doom instead of Command & Conquer.

That is, unless you think they were just trying to pick one Star Wars game, in which case you're both wrong - they should've picked TIE Fighter.

Re:How can these guys call themselves gamers?

[lewp]

I can't think of any way Jedi Knight stands out other than being a good Star Wars game. I used KotOR as an example, and it's my personal favorite, but TIE Fighter is another better game. If I had to rank my favorite Star Wars games, I'd probably put KotOR 2 and Rogue Leader ahead of Jedi Knight as well.

Ultimately none of the spawns of Star Wars are in the top 5 best games ever. There are some great ones to pick from, but nothing that's truly earth-shattering like Marios and Zeldas are. I just thought it was silly to pick a Star Wars game and not even pick the best one. They actually picked the sequel to TIE Figher, as well, and it wasn't nearly as good as TIE Fighter itself.

Re:How can these guys call themselves gamers?

[lewp]

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have used that as an example. A Link to the Past is my favorite Zelda game, and I think I'm more amazed that some of the lesser titles on that list were included (X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter?) rather than Ocarina, which is a worthy title. They included two Star Wars games (and not even the best ones!), but only one each of Mario and Zelda? No Metroid?

Re:How can these guys call themselves gamers?

[Khaotix]

F1GP may have been ahead of it's time ... but GT3 was one of the few racing sims that really got me hooked. The only issues I have stem from the agreements made with auto companies ... It's ridiculous how picky they are about how their cars are used (no damage models) and what cars are allowed.

A vote for a roach.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad Mojo: Redux because roaches have feelings too.

let the platforms wars begin

[dualmoo]

The best platforms:

- 16 PC
- 2 Nintendo 64
- 2 Sinclair ZX Spectrum
- 1 Nintendo Gameboy
- 1 Nintendo Gamecube
- 1 PC Engine
- 1 Playstation 2
- 1 Sega Dreamcast

I see a little bias there ;-)

Re:let the platforms wars begin

[dualmoo]

For those interested, here is the complete list:

Riyad:
- Resident Evil 4 - Nintendo GameCube
- Chaos - Sinclair ZX Spectrum
- Dungeon Explorer - PC Engine
- Blade Runner - PC
- Riyad: Mario 64 - Nintendo 64

Stu:
- The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - N64
- Lords of Midnight - Sinclair ZX Spectrum
- Civilization - PC
- ICO - PlayStation 2
- Half-Life - PC

Benny:
- X-Wing vs Tie Fighter - PC
- Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2 - PC
- Counter-Strike - PC
- Unreal Tournament - PC
- Shenmue - Sega Dreamcast

Gordon:
- Kick Off - PC
- Sim City - PC
- Tetris - Nintendo GameBoy
- Championship Manager 2 - PC
- Formula 1 GP - PC

Spode
- Commander Keen - PC
- Lemmings - PC
- Doom - PC
- Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge - PC
- Day of the Tentacle - PC

Re:let the platforms wars begin

[Kamineko]

Lemmings on the PC?

Now they're just being silly.

Also, did you know that the online version only has 10 levels from each difficulty, and not the full 30. Ie. it's only a third of the game.

Thanks for playing, (or not, as it seems) though.

Re:let the platforms wars begin

[SpiceWare]

I remember being very disappointed when I tried Lemmings on the PC as I was used to playing the original on my Amiga. Off the top of my head I recall the PC audio was rather crappy and it lacked the 2 player mode.

top 5... hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Lands of Lore: The Throne Of Chaos
2. System Shock
3. Deus Ex
4. Unreal Tournament
5. Half-Life

damn it run out of numbers, there's just too many ... DOOM, Transport Tycoon, ...

Re:top 5... hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

umm... Far Cry, Command & Conquer, Fallout, Starcraft, ....

Oh I'm pretty sure Crysis will be there... ;)

Top 15

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't stop at five. So here is my top 15 OF ALL TIME in no particular order.

Sinistar
Spy Hunter
Discs of Tron
Steel Talons
Phoenix
Section Z
Omega Race
After Burner II
Space Harrier
R-Type
Myst
Descent
Unreal Tournament GOTY (99)
Metal Gear Solid
Zanac

You're joking, right?

[Moofie]

30 pages? Which means 30 paragraphs?

Uh, yeah. Uh, no.

Oh yeah! Spectrum Chaos!

[spoco2]

Chaos page in list

I remember this game only after reading that... and man, yeah it was great. I think I got the whole game free on a cover cassette of Your Sinclair!

That really brought back memories, and just for that I thank those guys for their lists. :)

My list...

[pookemon]

1. Battlefield 2 (PC)
2. Far Cry (PC)
3. HALO (PC)
4. SWIV (Amiga)
5. Blue Max (C64)

Re:My list...

[Tei]

2 has no replay value.
3 no idea why is on that list, dont look special to me. Maybe have you played the console version?
5 whas good, but there are other interesting games on that area. Zeppelin, Fort Apococalipse, Spindizzy. Blue Max whas somewhat lineal.

Re:My List...

[uvajed_ekil]

Pretty damn close to my list:

1. Pacman

2. Super Mario Bros

3. Doom

4. Tetris

5. Civilization

Can solitaire count? If so, it knocks Civilization off the list and bumps Tetris down. I know this thread is kind of silly, but I am pretty sure my list makes the most sense. Pacman was a major societal phenomenon, as was Super Mario, while Doom was the real jumping-off point for the FPS, Tetris was like crack but cheaper and worse for your social life, and Civilization was simply an amazing game and something really fresh that challenged all sorts of people - a game for adults and non-gamers.

A top ten list should also include The Legend of Zelda, Mortal Kombat, some version of Madden NFL, and Subspace/Continuum, and maybe even Quake, Halo, Counter Strike, or something newer in the FPS realm, though I'm less sure that these mean as much to as many people (especially Subspace/Continuum, though I STILL play in Trenchwars, even after probably close to ten years).

Re:My List...

[elerran]

1. Civilization - best game ever "In the beginning, games were without form, and void. But Microprose shone upon the sleeping gamers and deep inside the brittle crust of the pc-at, Civ was unleashed." The rest is history...

Re:My list...

[pookemon]

1 to 4 are on the list for their Multiplayer (4 was good in it's own right).

I could have listed several games for 5, (Snokie, Son of Blagger, Great Escape, F-15, Cops and Robbers, etc. etc).

All the items on that list are on that list - because it's "My List".

My top 5...

[Loligo]

Ok, I've been a gamer of various sorts for approaching 30 years, and the only game on their list that I think belongs in a top TWENTY is Doom.

Top 5, in no particular order.

Zork
Adventure for the Atari 2600 (Warren Robbinett forever)
Civilization II (sorry, Civ fans, Civ 2 is the definitive version)
Utopia for the Intellivision (the FIRST widespread RTS)
Asteroids arcade version

These aren't even my top five favorites of all time, but the ones I feel deserve even more recognition than they got (ESPECIALLY Utopia, we wouldn't have Starcraft without it). They pioneered generations of games, and their influence is still felt today.

  -l

Re:My top 5...

[Anonymous Coward]

Utopia was an outstanding game for its time, no doubt. I actually went looking for that when I heard they made those intellivision 10in1 game systems, but sadly, none of them included that one. I'm not sure I'd include that in my own top 5, but I definetly think it's a game that does not get enough respect or honorable mentions.

Think I'll go hunt down an intellivision emulator and some roms...

Re:My top 5...

[Anonymous Coward]

> Civilization II (sorry, Civ fans, Civ 2 is the definitive version)

Maybe for you, but there are scores of others over at CivFanatics who disagree. As do I.

SMAC is, of course, the definitive version.
Now, how to persuade Sid to do SMAC2...

Re:My top 5...

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you even tried Civ 4? It's surprisingly excellent, so long as you have the requisite 4 gigs of RAM. Seriously. The expansion pack just added the ability to subjugate entire nations as 'vassal states', which is super cool.

Re:My top 5...

[Carewolf]

Have you ever tried Civ 2?

Civ 2 made the genre what it is, and Civ 3 and 4 are nowhere close even if they have cool features and better AI.

Re:My top 5...

[KatchooNJ]

Agreed. Civ2 is the one that is still loaded on my PC. ;-) A true classic. Oh, I also have Alpha Centauri still loaded, of course. Classics all the way! :-)

Again with this?

[inviolet]

Not this again.

Would someone please create a metalist? You can title it "The Top 100 Top n Games Of All Time Of All Time".

k'thanks.

And just where the hell is Elite

[shockwaverider]

What about Elite on the BBC micro?

OK - Lets forget that

• It was the first truly 3D 8 bit game
• It had 8 galaxies, each containing 256 solarsystems to explore
• It had missions, and police ships as well as pirates and traders, and the ability to be either

But fer Chrissakes it was coded into 18Kbytes of handcrafted 6502 machine code. That alone deserves a mention!

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[CaptnMArk]

Yes, Elite ruled.

If not elite, maybe least Wing Commander.

My list:

Elite/Wing Commander
Dune II/TA
Doom/Quake
Civ/Alpha Centauri/Railroad Tycoon
Diablo 2

Also, Day of the Tentacle was nice.

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[pthisis]

This list is pretty darned good. It's not what I would pick, but it's all things that I considered before making my list above (except Diablo II which is Nethack without any of the depth or strategy but with some pretty graphics)

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[91degrees]

It was the first truly 3D 8 bit game

Surely that was Battlezone.

Aside from that, yeah. Elite should be in any list. It did pretty much create the concept of a simulation as a game. It broke a lot of the "classic" rules of games - no lives, no rigid structure. Even the first person viewpoint was unusual.

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[drsquare]

Elite may have been technically impressive, but the gameplay was abysmal. You spent 50% of your time spinning round in circles avoiding pirates, and the other 50% crashing into the spacestation.

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[Fry-kun]

...which just added to realism :)

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[undii]

It was abysmal enough for me to sink in at least 1000 hours of time into it. God damn I LOVED that game, on the amstrad.

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[Fry-kun]

Amen to that!
I spent countless hours hunting (and being hunted by) Thargoids ;)

By the way, those who loved Elite should check out X3: Reunion. It's close to what Elite would've been in this day and age.
Sure, there's hope for Elite 4 yet... a little more than DNF (though that may just be the optimistic view of an Elite fan talking :P )

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[Anonymous Coward]

You might have done. The rest of us got over that pretty much by the time we made 'Mostly Harmless'.

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[Lissajous]

Elite may have been technically impressive, but the gameplay was abysmal. You spent 50% of your time spinning round in circles avoiding pirates, and the other 50% crashing into the spacestation.

I'm guessing you never made Elite status, right?

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[Anonymous Coward]

What about Elite on the BBC micro?

Thanks for the link. I've finally found out what "RIGHT ON COMMANDER!" meant.

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[Jaffa]

Also, Oolite is a hackable, open source, OpenGL-based, cross-platform version of Elite which has been billed as "Elite 1.5".

Sort of a cross between ArcElite (the definitive version according to Ian Bell himself) and some elements of Frontier.

Definitely worth checking out.

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[itsdapead]

The thing about Elite was that the minimalist graphics (amazing for the time, pathetic by modern standards) and open-ended nature of the game made it a great hook for the imagination, but unlike modern photo-realistic (well...) games you had to think yourself into it. The manual (not the first to be written "in character" but the idea was still fresh) had all sorts of fun BS about space dredgers, generation ships etc. which, along with the vast size of the universe gave the impression that there was "something out there". There wasn't - but it was fun proving the negative.

If you have any work that needs doing in the next few months, don't check out Oolite - a fairly faithful re-creation of Elite with more modern (but not overdone) graphics and a few modest new wrinkles (plus shedloads of optional add-on ships, missions etc.

You may have to be an Elite fan to appreciate it, though.

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[advocate_one]

3D Monster Maze on the good old ZX81 was the first... now you'll get all pedantic on me about what constitutes 3D

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[McNihil]

Ah yes Commander Jameson! Yup I fully agree. Elite has it all and had it before anyone else.

OOlite is the "free as in beer" version. Check it out!

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[TomAnthony]

Neither did I, and it is the biggest regret of my life. I got to Deadly, but never Elite.

The sad fact is - I still have my saved game file on a floppy, I still have my notes book for good trading routes etc. In University I even bought a BBC Master Compact for £30 just to oad that baby up.

I remember getting the mission where you had to hunt down the new ship and destroy it, which I did, but I can't remember getting any more missions. Guess you had to make it to Elite. :(

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[raynet]

Or if you wanna play the remake of old classic Elite, try Oolite at http://oolite.aegidian.org/

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[drgs100]

Yeah finally some one mentioned Elite. Rock on.

Re:And just where the hell is Elite

[RabbitMasher]

Oh No! Flashback! The V's! The terrible V's!

X-Wing vs TIE Fighter

[8ball629]

Wow. I can't believe my favorite game ever - a very underrated game - made it to a top 5 list.

Any other fans from the Zone ;)?

Re:X-Wing vs TIE Fighter

[cyclomedia]

Yeah, My brother and I used to play coop net games, them were the days!

No Elite!?

[Hylander]

The complete lack of "Elite" on these lists must be a conspiracy! I thought maybe they were all kids, but one of them at least names Lords of Midnight, which was pretty awesome. Nowhere near as good as elite though.

My top 5

[phil1984]

1. Doom (PC/Mac)
2. Super Mario Bros 3 (Nes)
3. Goldeneye (N64)
4. Myth II (PC/Mac)
5. Metroid Prime (GC)

Re:My Top 5

[Deliveranc3]

Descent is also credited as the first true 3D polygon based game.

Re:My Top 5

[MoeDrippins]

M.U.L.E*, a-[expletive]-men. Looking at those lists just had me thinking, "ah, kids these days..."

* But the original Atari version; not that cheap knockoff you played.... (big grin)

Hooray Lucasarts!

[adolfojp]

Monkey Island 2 and Day of the Tentacle. It is good to see some graphic adventure games on the list. :-)

Nope, not right

[davmoo]

Any "top 5 games" list that does not include Zork is obviously fucked, and cannot be trusted.

Re:Nope, not right

[KatchooNJ]

I strongly agree. Not to mention other classic IF games like Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, A Mind Forever Voyaging, Leather Godesses of Phobos or Planetfall. Zork is the one that everyone KNOWS, though... and it was the first from Infocom, so it definitely should be on there. Gamers, don't ignore text adventures!!!

My List...

[cableshaft]

Basically my list's criteria are games that were previously never even considered by game designers (and might never have been considered by other developers, or conceived in that way), that really changed how people thought about designing games and made everyone want to make their own versions of them :P.

1. Civilization
2. Super Mario Brothers
3. Tetris
4. Doom
5. Street Fighter II

5 is really too small, but I think that pretty well covers it. For me, at least. I really don't play much outside those types of games (and racing).

Star Control II, Half-Life, X-Com UFO, Evil Genius

[sir_montag]

No contest as to the top five -

1. Star Control II
2. Half-Life
3. X-Com UFO
4. Master of Orion
5. Evil Genius

These are all games you could play for months and not get bored - that's how I tend to determine what is a good game. *Especially* if I come back to it a decade later.

Slow news day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Love Tester.

An Elementary School Classic

[treppie]

What? No Oregon Trail?

naaaaaaaa

[Hylander]

Elite, Tetris, Nethack, The Hobbit, World of Warcraft ;)

Huge PC gaming bias.

[Anonymous Coward]

17 of their 25 games (5 reviewers with their own top 5s) are PC games. Only 2 other systems have more than one spot on their lists. Those are the N64 and the Sinclair ZX Spectrum. Not a single game is from the NES, SNES, Sega, Genesis, Arcade, Playstation or Atari. Only portable game on the list is Tetris on the GameBoy.

Missing a few titles.

[Dersaidin]

WOLFENSTEIN FRANCHISE. Return to Castle Wolfenstien Wolfenstien: Enemy Territory These games are far better than any in that list. List should be: 1) Wolfenstien: Enemy Territory 2) Age of Empires 2: Conquers Expansion 3) Half-Life 2 (just the single player) 4) Quake 3 5) Warcraft III

Deli's Top 5

[Deliveranc3]

1. Descent - 6 Degrees of freedom done right and one of the first games to push beyond earth normal physics arguably paving the way for other games to move outside reality.

2. Quake 1 the first fps that allowed for tactical gameplay akin to chess, your skills developed as you played and there was always something more to learn, birth of first game player as idol "Thresh".

Starcraft - Micromanagement and Resource spooging.

Civilization 2 (I just played all 4 it's the best one) - Showing how gaming can make you see the world in meta. Very important because it shows how gaming's active involvement can show you the methods in a system, the better you get the closer your creation approaches reality (hopefully).

5. Planescape Torment - Why? Very simply, get this get that quests are out and you are really curious about what will happen next unlike ff7 where you merely care about the characters, this suspense and good writing actually allows you to try and predict what will happen, most games penalize you for doing this by being poorly written but Torment's Twists just add to the experience.

Honourable mention: Star Roads - No twitchers on the list you say? Star roads is here because it likens to the days of pong and pac man yet it has aged FAR better than either game (or galaga) it brought in elements like time limits which have become a huge staple, might not be the first game but it's still tonnes of fun, also a great midi soundtrack (Which pushed it past Tetris).

one little change

[Spikeles]

I salute you with respect Sir Montaq, all the above are great games, although i'd personally change Masters of Orion to Betrayal at Krondor.

Re:one little change

[sir_montag]

MOO just has that replay value... Krondor is an excellent game, but how many times in a row can you play it?

Re:one little change

[Spikeles]

True, but it's still enjoyable getting to find all the new quests and stuff you never did b4

Star Control II

[paxmaniac]

StarConII from 1994 is right up there on my all time favourite list. Excellent strategy game with a huge universe to explore, very good ship to ship battle mode, witty interaction scripts, and some of the best graphics and sound for it's time.

The authors (Toys For Bob) get extra marks for releasing the source under GPL, enabling the free version Ur Quan Masters. It still plays as good as ever.

If only more game makers were community minded enough to release code for obsolete games.

Re:Star Control II

[sir_montag]

The dialog and humor from that game is just top-notch. And it was incredibly unique as a game.

Re:San Andreas is for pussies

[cyanid3]

OK kid, calm down...Breathe in....Breathe out....S.L.O.W..... The world is not coming to an end, go to sleep. :)

Mine (biased as all get out)

[aarku]

1. Dungeons and Dragons
2. Space Rogue
3. Escape Velocity
4. Tempora Heroica
5. Counter-Strike

Day of the tentacle

[ecbpro]

Now that was the only game that REALLY made me laugh :-) I wish there were more of these funny games. Do you have any suggestions?

Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[sir_montag]

There is something to be said for Counter-Strike. I used to map for it though, so I might have a bit of positive bias heh.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[toadlife]

CS was cool until it hit 1.0.

Long live Beta 7.1.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[sir_montag]

You know, when I played Beta 7, they were saying the same thing about Beta 6?

Fast-forward half a decade later, and they're saying the same thing about CS 1.6! A decade from now, I'll hear kids bitching about how Counter-Strike 7 was so much better than CS 8.5.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[toadlife]

I wouldn't know about newer versions as the last verion I played was 1.0, but I never complained about the betas. 1.0 had some really annoying changes. For example, the running animations were changed completely, so the characters looked like they had sticks up their asses while they ran. Supposedly it was more "realistic", but I thought it looked like crap. Also, a few good maps were removed from the official rotation with 1.0.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[cyclomedia]

not my cup of tea, for comparison half life's DMC (Death Match Classic) mod played along these lines

1. spawn
2. run towards nearest big gun
3. kill people
4. die hilariously
5. repeat = fun

and counter strike, (which admittedly i havent played much since one of the original beta's back in 99) goes something like this

1. chose from vast array of guns in a menu and not being a firearms expert have no idea what's what or what's any good about them
2. spawn
3. try to find players on other team, half of whom are camping
4. die from single bullet shot to toe
5. wait 20 minutes for round to end
6. finally repeat = suckage

obviously the former falls into the arcade category and the latter into tactical, so whilst it's most certainly a question of taste i prefer my games to place their emphasis on fast furious fun

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[sir_montag]

Every time I hear 'realistic' and 'counter-strike' in the same sentence, I tend to laugh.

What maps did they remove that you liked?

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[sir_montag]

It is a lot more tactical, and it does tend to be a game you can't just pick up and do well at right away - I think the learning curve tends to frustrate a lot of people. Though, with some of them, it's the frustration that makes them come back, weird as that may sound.

There are also CS deathmatch servers out there, where you respawn instantly and don't have to buy weapons. It's very, very fast and intense, and tends to retain the good elements of DM style play and CS tactical play. I like playing it every now and then.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

My biggest problem with CS nowadays is that all the average to pro skilled players just know where someone's head is going to come out at a certain door (and where their head will be when they subsequently duck) and they know their own reaction time, so they just aim at one of those spots and wait for you. Also it is a problem that people have been playing the maps since '99 and know everything about them, including where to shoot through walls that will generally result in damage to other players. I think both of those problems could be remedied by adding new content (maps, weapons, and general features.) I must say that the new radar system is quite interesting, and has actually gotten me to log off of PoE2 for Battlefield 2 long enough to check out.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[SanityInAnarchy]

Wow, I was reading your first list as a list of games and wondering what I was missing out on! (At 6 AM after being up all night, my head makes spawn == spore...)

More seriously, if you want fast action (which may help you develop some close-range tactics for the rest of the game), find one of the various IceWorld maps and play there. A round is really not going to last very long, so unless the teams are insanely unbalanced, you should get at least a couple of kills.

Counter-Strike was always hit or miss for me. A miss would be 20 rounds of not getting a single kill. A hit -- this did happen -- 20 rounds on a huge map (Blackhawk Down), winning, often the last man standing on my team. A bit of schadenfreude there, too -- Blackhawk Down is either the most fun or the least fun you'll ever have in Counter-Strike, all depending on how soon you die, because once you die, you just know you'll have to watch 5-10 mins of 2 guys wandering through this big-ass city trying to find each other, all the more maddening because you KNOW where they both are, you're watching them walk right past each other and not notice, and wishing someone would just commit suicide so you could respawn in a new round.

And, it being Counter-Strike, I have also had such things as 10-20 round winning streaks with TK-ing bastards, with my name as "Penis". Kill half my team, then the other half, then kill off the entire other team single-handedly. I don't think I've ever heard so much whining over voice chat, ever.

Quake 3 and DMC, though -- these were fun even when you're losing. And I was the best at Quake 3 at a couple of small LAN parties. But without many people, we'd often have to invent things like: Who can kill the most bots the fastest? Spam Majors on I Can Win, then try to gauntlet them the fastest...

But really, I think the lesson here is that anything can be a sandbox game, even more than GTA, and that I suck at Counter-Strike almost as much as I suck at StarCraft, but I somehow still manage to be Rob the Counterstrike Guy (sorry, can't link to it directly -- scroll down)

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[Xichekolas]

I totally agree with you... I think "CounterStrike: Nonexistant" was way better than any subsequent version... including the initial version!

I know I will just get modded down as flamebait... but this accurately describes my feelings for CounterStrike.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[cyclomedia]

Yeah back in the 56k days i was quite good at DMC and standard Half Life death match, my trademark became getting the final frag to win the map by using my axe or crowbar respectively, it also takes some balls to change to crowbar when there's two of you at 24/25 or 49/50 and still snag the win.

Also played in a mostly 56k TFC clan for quite some time taking on teams with t1s and isdn and winning ... i played in defence, and lots of people hated me :-)

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[Slovenian6474]

Hmm, i'd have to agree and disagree on this one. Although i LOVE playing CS, the only thing that's kinda boring is if you're the unlucky one that gets killed from a headshot 10 seconds into the game. This makes a player enter the "commercial mode" and gets up to get a sandwich/chips/pop etc. As much as i don't mind a break every once in awhile, many times i'd like to keep playing without the breaks.

My personal favorite online FPS is HLDM and HL2DM. Those have always been fun to me, although i usually destroy any friends at lans in those games so it's rather not fun for anyone else. The nice thing about this (and DMC) is the instant respawn. No waiting for the rest of the team to die. DoD is great to for having the instant/timed respawn rather than waiting for the whole team to die.

So all in all, I like both. I'll do the fast/furious over the strategic any day, but strategic can balance out some of the inequality of arcade style, such as easier to die meaning even noobs can get lucky sometimes. CS is more about knowing where to be to attack and knowing where the enemy is, where the DM games are more of accuracy and speed. Now only if i could play both at the same time...

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[gfxguy]

The reason CS and CS:S should be considered is because they are the defination of "mod", modifications so complete they create an almost completely different game than HL and HL2. Maybe HL should be considered because of how "mod"-able it was.

I admit I don't play CS online that much. Mostly lan games with a few players and bots to fill it out.

My defination of a great game is one that makes me give up other things in my life to play it because it's so interesting or fun... a top five game would have to be that, and be the top five list of time wasters.

If I could lump series together, that would make it easy (in no particular order):

- Sim City classic and 2000 (2000 was clearly just a better, more advanced version of the former. I have 3000 but haven't played it much).

- The Tomb Raider series, which, at the time, defined the third person shooter.

- Total Annihilation, the epitome of RTS, 1996 game of the year, and I still enjoy it.

- Counter Strike and Counter Strike: Source

- Virtua Fighter (first 3D fighting game)

Honorable mentions: 2D Zelda and Mario games (although they took the Mario games a little too far), Myst series, Myth series, Warcraft series. C&C might have been the original RTS, and so I give it props, but it was not the best, IMO. Some games were incredibly fun and interesting, but just too short - The Incredible Machine series, for example, and Half Life and Half Life 2, which had to end, but were so good I just wanted them to go on and on.

The problem with these lists is, although I consider myself a gamer, I am nearly 40 years old, don't get to play much, haven't owned every system out there, haven't played Halo or a number of other games, haven't had (and will never have) time to comprehensively evaluate games (and don't really care to). So the selection is limited to what I've played.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[JeTmAn81]

You know what, I actually agree...I was a very active CS player from beta 2.1 up to a ways past version 1.0, and I honestly thought the game changed significantly for the worse during the transition from 7.1 to 1.0. Something about the aiming was just...different, and I was never as good of a player as I was in the betas. I actually verified this once by demanding we play a LAN game of 7.1, and when we did I was significantly more accurate and successful in play.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[JeTmAn81]

IIRC correctly, cs_dock, which was a great map, was removed. This was one that I'd been playing as long as I had been playing the game (since beta 2.1). I could be wrong about that particular one getting removed at that particular time, but I know they took it out at some point and I was a sad panda over it.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[sir_montag]

Indeed it was removed :( Along with Tundra and a number of other good ones. The bigger CS got, the more interesting maps it lost it seems.

What is left is good in terms of deathmatch style play, but the maps don't have any 'soul' in comparison.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[sir_montag]

People with 6+ years of experience vs. people with 1-2 days? It's pretty brutal. I think it tends to turn a lot of players off, because they just die, and die and die. With Counter-Strike, the learning curve just gets steeper as you go at what seems like an exponential rate, and while in some ways I like that (because there's always something new to learn or get better at), it does tend to suck when someone higher up the curve slaughters everyone else on the server.

Re:Something to be said for Counter-Strike

[joeljkp]

Wow, don't try America's Army. That thing makes Counter-Strike look like DOOM.

But really, tactical FPSs are like golf - you hate it until you get that first great shot, then you're hooked.

How about these?

[Rik Sweeney]

Edge gave these 3 games 10 of out 10 (they were before Edge's time)

Exile
Elite
Super Mario Bros

Personally I completely agree they deserve it

It's given these 5 games 10 out of 10

Super Mario 64
Gran Turismo
Ocarina of Time
Halo
Half Life 2

Personally I'm not so sure about the last 2

29 pages??

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus tap dancing christ.. With such a slow server to boot, there's no way I'll be reading that.

All good questions, but first...

[sir_montag]

Why don't you click on a few ads though? ;)

My Top 5

[marcello_dl]

1. Descent - 6 Degrees of freedom done right and one of the first games to push beyond earth normal physics arguably paving the way for other games to move outside reality.

Games beyond earth normal physics: SpaceWar! (first computer game evar)
With six degrees of freedom (sometimes in the game, not always) Star Wars. One of the first decent 3D FPS, too.

My favourites:

• Asteroids (i never played spacewar!, so this is the best entertainment per Mhz)
• Xevious (high endorfine release when playing at hard levels)
• Joust (Funny for experts, funnier for newbies esp. in 2players)
• Hard drivin' (best driving simulation per MHz, one of the most accurate evar, get to an original arcade unit if possible, and behold)
• Lady Bug (Brought chicks to the arcade, had interesting gameplay for a dungeon game)

Amusing games

[sir_montag]

Starcontrol II did have some excellent humor, and Evil Genius is absolutely hillarious.

Re:Amusing games

[ecbpro]

Thanks man, I just downloaded the Evil Genius demo to give it a go. Have a nice day!

Re:Amusing games

[sir_montag]

Let me know what you think of it when you get it running :D

young gamers!

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like they didn't know the real classics like
aztec (apple ][)
Ultima (I,II,III,IV) (apple ][)
Caste Wolfenstein (apple ][)
Choplifter (apple ][)
Rescue Raiders (apple ][)
and tons of others, you will find that almost every kind of game were first on the apple ][.

Re:young gamers!

[Dolemite_the_Wiz]

No kidding. Don't forget Load Runner. I can still remember making a single sided floppy double sided with a knife so I could fit the Ultima ][ Galactic Disk on the floppys I had.

Where is Total Annihilation

[ThomasHoward]

WHy is Total Annihilation not on any of those lists, it is still the best RTS ever made, well, as far as I am concerned, anyhow.

Re:Where is Total Annihilation

[rucs_hack]

It is probably my favorite RTS game ever, but it remains obscure.

Had Cavedog not pissed off Chris Taylor, making him quit, then they might have been able to secure TA's place as a leader in the RTS field. I don't know how they pissed him off, but his departure was sudden, and seemed to be linked to difficulties getting TA2 off the ground.
One minute he was talking about it, the next he was gone, and we got the abortion that was TA-kingdoms instead.

Also, and Chris was equally responsible for this, they said that it would be 'too hard' for people to make their own units, and discouraged it. I remember reading his comments about Amatour unit creation at the time, they were somewhat condescending.

Therefore when the TA community sprang up, it did so around the game alone, not around the game and company, although cavedog did try to engage the modders later, without much success. This seperation also contributed to its faliure.

Without a common ground between company and fan base, there was no way to ferment a dialogue between players/modders and developers. This can be critical to a products survival these days, as FPS companies found early on.

CyberKewls Units Independancy Pack was the best unnoficial addon for TA, and brought together the community in the way that Cavedog should have tried to do. Then someone (don't know who) back ported TA-Kingdoms features into TA, making it a very impressive game indeed.
All this wasn't enough to make it appeal to new players though, even though it was still better technically then any other RTS available for many years. I still think it's better then CnC Generals.

It won't be long until Supreme Commander arrives though. Personally I can't wait. This time round I really doubt that Chris will be discouraging the community which is bound to appear around the game. As an Aside, I can't help but notice in the presentation from E3 that he constantly refers to TA, albeit not by name, as in saying what's better this time round.

I rather hope the Unit creators of yore resurface for TA2. I want the Abrams back.

Re:Where is Total Annihilation

[bucklesl]

Agreed, I play it regularly over the internet using Hamachi vpn. Just use cheating AIs for a better contest. ...waiting for Supreme Commander...

Re:Where is Total Annihilation

[4D6963]

Same here, right after Rise of Nations tho.

Re:Where is Total Annihilation

[macraig]

Okay, so who are you "really" over at tauniverse.com? Clearly you've been a regular!

Re:Where is Total Annihilation

[rucs_hack]

I tried once to drum up interest for a Community created new engine for TA, in 2000, but couldn't get others interested, and the project folded, so I just got on with my degree instead (I'm nowt to do with TAspring btw).

I'll be cropping up again with Supreme Commander though. I have plans...

Re:Where is Total Annihilation

[macraig]

Heh, you'd be surprised, maybe even shocked, by what's been done with TA during your five-year absence. Mobile bridges, shield units, tweaks to the Demo Recorder to allow for more scripting tricks... too many things to recall at once! Oh, and several functional versions of the Cybran Monkeylord, including a foot-stomping weapon. :-)

I've tried TA Spring, but I didn't like the visual elements of their UI for it... too different from TA (without being a marked improvement) and too much wasted screen real estate. (I know, they were probably trying to avoid an Infogrames IP lawsuit, but still.) I loved the other improvements to the engine that overcame limitations in TA's engine, though, like of course the arbitrary weapon and unique-unit limits, etc.

Re:Where is Total Annihilation

[rucs_hack]

I plan to really jump in and start modding when SC comes out. I never really stopped liking TA, but it has aged, and no-one else I know plays it.

I've not used TAspring much. tbh I don't like it much, but I didn't like to say unless you turned out to be a dev :-)

Sounds like TA has been changing a lot though. I wonder what all these modders will do with SC's features :-)

Re:Where is Total Annihilation

[macraig]

I had a lotta beefs with the degree of micromanagement required in TA, and most of my own modding efforts centered on ways to minimize that. I've heard that Taylor is very conscious of the problem and that Supreme Commander is rumoured to alleviate some of it relative to TA, so I'm holding my breath until SC arrives or I turn blue, whichever occurs first. In the meantime, my current fav mod is GMTA 3.12 (get it at FileUniverse if ya want), which I'm modding further to suit my tastes and reduce some o' that micro. :-) There's a few other mods in progress now that I'm also eager to try.

Long live TA! Long live SupCom!

Mark

Re:UT Quake

[Anonymous Coward]

The double barreled shotgun, shaft, nailgun and rocket launcher are the classic FPS weapons. The railgun too, though it wasn't in the original. UT has some good weapons, the Shock Rifle, and the Flak Cannon. Most of them are just gimmicks, though.

Original Quake maps receive homages and updates in new games to this day. Nobody gives a rat's ass about UT.

The original Quake still has an active fanbase making maps and doing things like speedruns. Once again, nobody gives a rat's ass about UT. Heck, I can barely find a decent UT2k4 game on the rare occasion I bust it out.

Quake had TF and invented FPS CTF. Half the game mods in current FPSs, including UT, are ripped off from what Quake mods did first.

None of this takes into the account that Quake is what pushed people to buy Pentiums with high powered graphics cards in the first place, paving the way for lesser games like UT and basically everything made today. Quake is the originator of the "true" 3d FPS. Quake is where real player-created mods caught on. Quake is where TCP/IP multiplayer became the standard.

On top of all this, Quake's sequel, Quake II, predates the original Unreal by a year or two. It's really unfair to compare them back to back since UT has such a big advantage in available horsepower, a newer game engine, and the benefit of scrutinizing for 3-4 years what Quake got right and missed. It doesn't even matter, though, because Quake is still the better game by a country mile.

Next time you're going to fail, make it less obvious.

Wolfenstein

[Frankie70]

Doom, because it practically reinvented the FPS, both in terms of originality of gameplay and graphics quality.


No, that was Wolfenstein.
I liked Doom better, but it was Wolf which reinvented the genre.

Re:Wolfenstein

[mgblst]

As someone who played ridiculous amounts of both games, I am not so sure. I remember people getting a bit excited at Wolf, but going crazy over Doom. I remember the hysteria that doom created, even before it release, as soon as some pictures were released - many didn't believe that they were real, but they were. This was before the web, when you had to cruise the news groups for information, or hidden ftp sites, getting into the alt+255 directories.

Re:Wolfenstein

[Mr. Gus]

"Reinvented"? I'd think "invented" would be more like it. Doom *was* the genre for a while. Wolf3d came before it, and Catacomb 3d came before wolf3d, and Hovertank 3d came before that. I'm sure you can go through the annals of video game history and find things that are at least fps-like, but practically speaking, wolf3d may not have been absolutely the first game you could possibly describe as an fps, but it was the game that created the genre, with every subsequent game drawing their main elements from it.

Wolf3d was basically the template for the 2.5d fps.

Doom improved on it, making it *the* one uberpopular genre on the PC.

Quake evolved it into the 3d fps, and so on. If anything reinvented the genre, I'd say Quake. Or maybe Half-Life.

Re:Wolfenstein

[bareman]

No way, SPISPOPD pwned! >;-)

I think wolf paved the way, but it was Doom that made the genre. I don't think I've ever been involved in a multiplayer wolfenstein game. The multiplayer and 3rd party mods made the genre.

Re:Wolfenstein

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you see the "RE" before "invented"? Wolfenstein invented, Doom RE-invented.

Re:Wolfenstein

[Abattoir]

Reinvented? What FPS came before Wolf3d?

Re:Wolfenstein

[strider44]

Wolfenstein you could go left or right. Doom you could go up and down as well. You might not think straight away that that was a huge change, but I do.

Re:Wolfenstein

[nsayer]

I played wolf3d, and I did consider it, but Doom was far and away a better game than wolf3d was. I would say that wolf3d was a dress rehearsal for Doom.

quake

[mincognito]

Yeah, "Chaos," Commander Keen and Jedi Knight for example, beat out Quake which doesn't even make the list. If I remember correctly didn't Quake, aside from being the first true 3D FPS (unlike Doom), bring realtime tcp/ip multiplayer to the masses? Personally, my mind was pretty much blown the first time I deathmatched over the internet.

Re:quake

[mincognito]

Personally, my mind was pretty much blown the first time I deathmatched over the internet.

minus score huh...

i don't miss the lag of a 28.8k modem...and when the data flowed again finding oneself in a pool of friggin lava

Honest replay value of those games?

[sir_montag]

Are you sure it's not just nostalgia talking? How many times have you gone back to play any of them?

nethack

[kubla2000]

There is a staircase up here. You see here an iridium wand.

-- ----
|...@.+
|...f.|
|......
-------

Re:nethack

[Anonymous Coward]

The iridium ones are the most fun to break over your head! :-)

---this is the spot where I drew a clever nethack diagram, but the slashcode engine wouldn't let me post it, claiming I had too many "junk" characters.

Feh.

(Note for automated system - these are not junk characters. These are symbols needed to accurately convey an idea. They are ideograms in the correct context. Blah blah blah blah, I hate automated systems unless they don't have cracks in them. I am the very model of a modern major general. Keep them guessing, with Oil of Olay. You care about the woman you are, wonderful, wonderful, wonder bra.)

Everyone knows....

[Jairun]

The best game of all time is the original Legend of Zelda hands down.

Well, you do have to consider the audience...

[sir_montag]

Given the sparkling coversational gems I hear on the internet on a regular basis; 'lol wut' or 'OMG, LIEK, U KNOW!?', I'd say a paragraph per page is about all the average internet reader is capable of, given that they seem to find 'Dick and Jane' challenging reading material.

This article has HOW many sections?

[robo_mojo]

I noticed that there were twenty some odd pages in the linked article, and closed it. What is wrong with these people that make web pages anymore? Why can't they put the whole damned article in one piece? There are scrollbars on my browser for a reason, ya'know.

(Yes, I do know why they do it, but it doesn't make me dislike it any less)

Re:This article has HOW many sections?

[rucs_hack]

because they can place more adverts in the article that way.

Re:This article has HOW many sections?

[robo_mojo]

Yes, I was actually aware of that.

But even so, I don't see how that is any different from just putting the full text on one long scrollable page and have all the ads lined up beside it, plus sprinkled among the text if you must. Rather than having it split up like they do. You could still get the same number of ads in this way without requiring 29 separate pages for it.

Unless of course it is the same set of ads that appear on each page. In that case, I imagine that is a large waste of bandwidth anyway. (i.e. if I didn't care about the ad on page 2 I probably won't care for it again on page 29).

Ah.... /rant

Re:This article has HOW many sections?

[rucs_hack]

you may have hit the nail on the head there.

By splitting up the article they probably reduce the incidence of people being served the entire article who'd never make it past the intro. That must save some tube space...

Well...

[sir_montag]

It tried to make the list, but it died of dysentery :(

Surely a 'Best Game Of All Time'...

[payndz]

...would be one that you still regularly play - and enjoy - now, no matter how many years it is since its release or how primitive it may look. Which for me would give a list something like this:

1: Robotron 2084
2: Tomb Raider
3: Tempest 2000
4: Knights of the Old Republic
5: Tetris

Hmm. Only one game produced this century in there.

Console games don't count

[sir_montag]

Who plays console games? I mean, seriously, do they even have a market percentage these days?

Re:Console games don't count

[Anonymous Coward]

You're kidding, right? Console games overall way outpace PC game sales.

Re:Console games don't count

[sir_montag]

Says who? Netcraft?

Re:Console games don't count

[Tom_M_Riddle]

"___________" the ancient Yule - tide Ca - rol.
Fa-La-La-La LA la LA LA LA

Looking Glass!

[auralrothko]

I can't believe no one mentioned System Shock II!

What, no Three Gorges Dam?

[sir_montag]

How can you fail to list Three Gorges Dam?

Re:What, no Three Gorges Dam?

[Anonymous Coward]

He did, but it was censored...

where's world of warcraft?

[froggero1]

seriously... are 10 million simultaneous online gamers wrong?

I mean, wtf mate? at least warcraft III.

I give this list a -1 uninteresting

Re:where's world of warcraft?

[sir_montag]

Well, yes, as a matter of fact. Opinion has yet to change objective reality. 'Popular' does not equate to 'good game' necessarily. Without multiplayer, could it stand on its own at all? (if there were a single player version of it, with the other roles played by bots).

Re:where's world of warcraft?

[drsquare]

Popular != good. Otherwise you're going to have to include the Sims in this list.

Let's see if world of warcraft is remembered in fifteen years, or if it's on the scrapheap with Everquest and Diablo.

And isn't it funny how the quoted number of subscribers on world of warcraft goes up by about a million every day?

Who needs an opinion?

[sir_montag]

I personally love it when people don't have an opinion - then I can give them one of my own! I'm considering a future in politics.

Re:Star Control II, Half-Life, X-Com UFO, Evil Gen

[dreamer-of-rules]

Not having played the last two, I'd replace them with 4) Quake 2, Multi-player, with Grappling Hook mod and 5) Nethack. Stars! was great too; I'm sorry that the sequal couldn't find the finishing funding.

Doom and not Quake??

[sir_montag]

If any game reinvented the FPS, it was Quake. Doom rocks, without a doubt, but it's no Quake.

Re:Doom and not Quake??

[telbij]

Let's get this straight.

Wolf3d invented the FPS genre.
Doom perfected single player FPS and invented multiplayer FPS.
QuakeWorld perfected multiplayer FPS.

Both Doom and Quake were so good they both deserve to make the top 5. As good as Quake is, the single player can't hold a candle to Doom. In fact, I've never seen another game that packs the visceral punch of Doom single player. The sheer quantities of enemies and satisfying weapons (especially the double-barrell shotgun in Doom 2). In Quake it was like, okay, now fight 3 guys, now fight 4 guys. Whatever happened to pick up a chainsaw, lights start strobing, and a wall drops behind you with 100 zombies behind it?

Re:Doom and not Quake??

[sir_montag]

Single player, sure, though between the multiplayer and the 'actually being a 3D game', I would tend to say it beats Doom. And between single player and multiplayer, the multiplayer tends to have a lot more replay value ;)

Re:Doom and not Quake??

[CaptnMArk]

Serious Sam (the first one, not the poor sequel), is a good 'sequel' to Doom.

I also like Painkiller as a Quake 'sequel'.

Re:Doom and not Quake??

[hal2814]

"Doom perfected single player FPS and invented multiplayer FPS."

If you're talking "invented" I'm pretty sure MIDI Maze / Faceball 2000 has it beat by a few years. If you're talking overall refinement, Rise of the Triad did a whole lot more towards making the modern FPS than Doom ever did and it was developed around the same time. A 4 player Co-op or Deathmatch is hardly comparable to an 11-player FPS with several different types of play, including the first FPS capture the flag that I'm aware of.

Re:Doom and not Quake??

[telbij]

You may be right, never played either of those. Back in the day I played in some massive Marathon games, which I believe was the best multiplayer of that generation. Not only did it support more players (up to 16 I believe), but it had different game types and vertical aim was a component; I think it was the first game you could shoot a rocket at people's feet.

Marathon also had some very innovative maps due to the fact that the editor required polygons (ie. no computing polygons from sectors as Doom did), which allowed for some amazing effects, such as two separate rooms that occupy the exact same physical space, but are accessible from different entrances. Imagine a spiral staircase that doesn't go up, it just twirls around in the same plane.

Anyway, whether any other games were really better is a moot point. Doom had the popularity and got most of the credit. And what better way to measure video game quality then popularity?

my personal favorite game of all time..

[Anonymous Coward]

Dungeons of Daggorath for the Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer.. 1st person 3d wireframe graphics.. attacking opponents by banging out commands in real time on the keyboard.. and that adrenaline rush as the creatures approached you.. a game way ahead of it's time.. all packed into less than 16k! Some more info here:
http://members.tripod.com/~Frodpod/index-2.html

Re:my personal favorite game of all time..

[DrKyle]

It was a great game, but I think I was a bit too young to do very well at it. I usually got about as far as the 3rd or 4th level, vulcan ring, then would get my ass beat by some knight. Nothing like hunt & peck typing a l
a l
a l
a l
a l
a l
and then realizing you somehow had made a mistake and were typing l a
l a
l a
l a
Or hearing that whiff whiff whiff of all the attacks you typed in after you defeated a blob. So how did the game even end? I'd really like to know.

How many here have actually even played Pong?

[sir_montag]

How many here have actually even played Pong, on an original system? I remember thinking it was pretty damn cool when I was a kid, though these days, I have to seriously wonder how many people actually played the original...

Re:How many here have actually even played Pong?

[Q-Hack!]

How many here have actually even played Pong, on an original system? I remember thinking it was pretty damn cool when I was a kid, though these days, I have to seriously wonder how many people actually played the original...

Unless you were one to play on Willy Higinbotham's oscilloscope... not many!

Re:Star Control II, Half-Life, X-Com UFO, Evil Gen

[pthisis]

X-Com is phenomenal, great pick. As much as I enjoyed Dune II, it's almost criminal that RTSs have displaced turn-based strategy games for the most part.

Star Control II is just a relatively uninspired remake of starflight; a graphics facelift is always nice, but the inferior gameplay and lack of originality put it well of the list for me.

Something got blocked out :)

[NotFamousYet]

I'm sorry but 117 comments an not a single mention of Tetris?

It's probably the simplest, most addictive game ever, and it never got old.

My top 5

[Anonymous Coward]

1 - UFO - Enemy Unknown
2 - Civilization
3 - Speedball 2
4 - Stunt car racer
5 - Battlefield 1942

I think i am getting old.

Lands of Lore...

[sir_montag]

Wow. I hadn't heard of that game in a long time... I really like it for some reason, though it seems hard to say why. The storyline is the most obvious reason I suppose.

These lists...

[Tom_M_Riddle]

For me, it would be favorite games. They may or may not have sold. They may or may not be influential. And my list would need to be longer. Five is meaningless, because it would leave out games I played for years, but aren't readily available.

In no particular order -> the core:

• "Devil May Cry"
• "Onimusha Warlords"
• "God Of War"
• "Metal Gear Solid II:Sons Of Liberty"
• "Vampires: The Masquerade - Redemption" (PC)

Honorable Mention to "Zone of The Enders" (an unexpected treasure) and the Dreamcast classic, "Soul Calibur" (which revived my interest is consoles after many years.) But then, there are certain titles I loved in my youth, such as "Wizard of Wor" (arcade), "Punch Out"(arcade), and the incomparable "Spy VS Spy" I and II (C64)

I couldn't always be concerned with sales totals or the best reviews. Growing up in the inner city, there is NO WAY in hell I'd ever purchase or play a "Grand Theft Auto" game. I never played a "Halo" game (couldn't afford any incarnation of the Xbox) I liked "Unreal Tourmanent" (especially 2004) much more than any "Doom" or "Quake" title. Sports? For a long time, it was "NFL2K"(x), never "Madden" (x) It was "EA Baseball 2005", not the bug-ridden SEGA garbage. Finally, I despised "Resident Evil", (having once _returned_ "Code:Veronica" after an hour of play.)

chacun a son gout...

Re:These lists...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, you had a PS2 but couldn't afford an Xbox? I guess you CAN trade foodstamps for Playstations. Good thing, because we're all going to need it this time around!

Re:These lists...

[Tom_M_Riddle]

...this really shouldn't be too hard to imagine. Let me spell it out. Listening? Using some of my savings during a terrible stretch of unemployment in 2001, I got a PS2 and Dreamcast to cheer me up during dark times. Bought some games used. I didn't find work in time to get an Xbox. In tears, I sold the PS2, all games and DVD's to fund my exodus from New York in 2002. Are ya happy now, lad? Capice?

What about Doom?

[91degrees]

Okay, Wolf3d came before, (and Maze War before that), and Quake was technically much more advanced, but it was Doom that really caught our imagination.

The mother of all RTS?

[Anonymous Coward]

How can any list be complete without the infamous Dune 2 game?

My list would probably look something like this:

Dune 2
Monkey Island 3
The Settlers 3
Wolfenstein 3D
and
Guild Wars

at least 2 real classics are missing...

[stirz]

think of M.U.L.E. or Pirates! .

I bet the creators of these lists are too young to know what games still have the same highly addictive potential since the early/mid 1980s...


Hm, I feel like being really old now... *damn* :-)

Re:at least 2 real classics are missing...

[tomservo84]

If I were to name my top 5 games of all time, I'd have trouble figuring out 4 of the 5, but one of them would *HAVE* to be M.U.L.E. Awesome game...had more fun playing this game with friends than I can remember with most other games. Get me some Crystite!!!

Re:at least 2 real classics are missing...

[stirz]

Hm, I just found out on "World of MULE" , that someone made it possible to play the original MULE with 4 players over the internet! Sadly, "Atari MULE Online doesn't seem to run natively on Linux. Let's hope it runs with WINE...

Regards,
Stirz

Top 5 most influential PC games of all time

[core_dump_0]

Here are my top 5 *most influential* PC games of all time:

1. Rogue (1979)
This computer RPG, while not the first, set the standard for all other computer RPGs which came after it, from NetHack (1985) to the Diablo series (1996).
2. Adventure (1977)
This was the first in the "text adventure" genre. While no longer common except among "interactive fiction" hobbyists, these games were very influential and hold a historical significance.
3. Wolfenstein 3D (1992)
The first popular FPS, the first popular 3D game, and the first popular violent game, its WWII concentration camp setting sparked major controversy. It led to the also-influential Doom series (1994)
4. SimCity (1992)
The original article mentioned this in their lists, I believe. The most influential simulation game for the same reason that Rogue was the most influential RPG, that it set the standard for simulation games.
5. ZZT (1989)
The first text adventure slash RPG slash programming language, like other games in the genres it spans it has a cult following which continues to this day.

Re:Top 5 most influential PC games of all time

[KatchooNJ]

Dan, your list is gold. This is probably the best list I have seen yet of top influencial games. That about covers it!

Re:Star Control II, Half-Life, X-Com UFO, Evil Gen

[sir_montag]

The grappling hook mod was just incredible (though I think I really only played it on Quake 1). You should really try Evil Genius though - imagine the Sims, but evil.

Re:Star Control II, Half-Life, X-Com UFO, Evil Gen

[sir_montag]

It does seem similar at a glance, but given the dialog, how in the world can you say 'uninspired'?

Play it for free...

[interactive_civilian]

For those who don't know, Bungie open-sourced Marathon and released the game data file for free. You can get them all at http://source.bungie.org/, or more specifically, here:

http://source.bungie.org/get/

I agree that this is one of the most amazing games ever. Not only did it bring us some technical innovations (at the time) such as the ability to look up and down to aim your weapon, dual triggered weapons, etc., but it was one of the first FPS games to actually have an amazing, intricate plot.

If you haven't played it, go for it.

Re:Play it for free...

[crwl]

Don't forget Aleph One, the enhanced source port based on Marathon sources. It supports OpenGL, large amount of different hardware platforms and operating systems etc. They also host all the necessary data files for Marathon, Marathon 2 and Marathon Infinity.

Bubble Bobble and Monkey Island

[Anonymous Coward]

Nuff said.

Re:Bubble Bobble and Monkey Island

[KatchooNJ]

Agreed! Gotta love those little dinosaurs! Bubble Bobble is the best platformer ever, in my book.

WTF?

[hopopee]

Where is Betrayal at Krondor? It's possibly the greatest RPG ever made. At least it defined the genre again after all of those D&D-"goldenbox"-games.. The article lags too much to read, but there aren't any mentions even here. Shame on you..

Re:UT Quake

[telbij]

It's all subjective, but I'm definitely right when I say that Quake 3 perfected the original FPS formula. The weapon balance, physics, interface. It was so perfect that no one needed to do another game like that. That's why Counter Strike was the next big thing.

indeed,Wikipedia's list of lists of greatest games

[spage]

Yes, this has been done to death. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_and_video_ga mes_that_have_been_considered_the_greatest_ever does a good job of keeping score.

I bought an N64 just to play Super Mario 64. 3 Shigeru Miyamoto!!

Chess?

[Yotsuya]

... Okay, what kind of list of the best games ever doesn't include chess? What about poker?
Oh wait. They misnamed their list. It's a list of 'videogames'. :P

Yet Another Pointless List

[Lexical_Scope]

These things are so subjective that they will always cause arguments between 'hardened' gamers. At the end of the day, all that matters is the impact the games had on you and your perception of gaming. With that in mind, here's the list of games that I've wrecked my social life with for the last 20 years or so;

1) Championship Manager
2) Dark Age of Camelot
3) Lords of Chaos
4) Turrican
5) Beneath a Steel Sky

Not sure how many of these you would consider to be groundbreaking, but I'll take Turrican over Mario any day! Lords of Chaos was the first turn-based strategy game I ever played and is still the yardstick for pretty much any strategy game I play now. Beneath a Steel Sky was simply the best-looking, best-scripted, funniest and most challenging "point-and-click" graphical adventure game ever...move over Guybrush! DAOC was my first (and probably last) foray into MMORPGs and I've been playing for 4 years now and I'm still finding new stuff about the game and still enjoying it immensely. Championship Manager..what can I say? I reckon I've spent more hours playing Champ Man (or it's derivatives) in the last 10 years than anything else bar sleeping!!

Some good choices for games in this thread...Tetris, Nethack, Lords of Midnight and a ton of others that might well have changed the gaming landscape for ever...but being innovative and groundbreaking doesn't guarantee a personal impact...just play what's fun!

Next, next,

[Kuvter]

next, zzZZZZ, wake up, post about it on /.

Re:UT Quake

[lendude]

Exactly, and to further illustrate the impact of the game hardware-wise, Quake primarily drove the demand for 3Dfx Voodoo cards via the development/availability of the minigl driver for the game, hence kickstarting what now is today the multi-billion dollar GPU industry.

Only 1 top game - Defender

[Viol8]

Williams Defender - best adrenaline rush ever devised for a CRT screen.
Nothing since has even come close. You don't need another 4 games to add
to a best ever list , this game is enough on its own.

Re:Only 1 top game - Defender

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen. Gotta love the second version as well. STARGATE. (2) 6 x 9 speakers in stereo rockin on a good gaming platform and controls system in the early 80's. Way ahead of their time. Now game coders are just redoing old hat tricks anymore.

Sequels on Lists

[tubs]

I'm always curious about "sequels" on these lists - as most of the time the orginal is the "revolutionary" game, and the sequel is usually just an update, more polished, better controls etc.

But also, there never seems to be any limits to these lists - maybe people should put some in. For example a game could be absolutly groundbreaking fo the time, but should it be on the "Best Ever" list?

A classic example is elite, for it's time it was a fantastic game - but if we took that game and just updated the presentation to todays standards (The game stays the same but graphics, sounds, cut scenes added etc) would it still be a classic game?

But what other way - if you could get a modern game, and have the same "gameplay" in a 1985 style, would it be as good? Could you strip the modern day presentation from a new game and still have a "classic"?

Anyeay, as always these lists are always subjective, and newer games take most of the limelight - generally because they are still fresh in the mind, but I just thought I would do mine ...

In no Order

Dune II - A fantastic RTS, could be argued as the first RTS that combined all the elements of a modern one. Oddley the orginal "Dune" wasn't a RTS, but a type of adventure game.
Championship Manager - I still break this out now and again, although it's strange seeing some players as 18 that are retired now..
Sensible Soccer - A fast and frentic arcade game, simple to pick up, difficult to master
CIV - Yep the original (on the Amiga no less). It even had the ability to have another city decide to join you if you were more powerful than them.
*Mud - Not one in particular(Although BatMUD was my vice), but the hours you could waste on these multi player games was fantastic.

You can probably see from my list the distict lack or FPS - I enjoyed Doom, Halflife, system shock and most others I've played, but really when it comes down to it whats classic about running about a maze, collecting items and shooting monsters :-)

No Freespace, either?

[Sage Gaspar]

I think the space sim is a genre that hasn't seen much action in the last seven years because it's already been perfected by Freespace 2. Let's talk about a game where you have a little fighter flying amid literally miles-long capital ships firing giant beam weapons at each other. Where there's gameplay moments and mid-mission plot surprises that just bowl you over. Where you have complete control over three squads of wingmen and you can see (and target) every subsystem on every ship. Where you actually have to make targeted strikes on these subsystems using bombers and covering fire to take down big targets. Where you fly into the middle of really awesome nebulae that do crazy things to your ship's sensors.

And most notably, where the devs were pimp enough to put a clause allowing completely free redistribution to friends and acquaintances in the EULA, and it's now legitly open-source. Leading to the creation of beautiful graphics packages that breathe new life into it. (video). Anyone who thinks they might enjoy this game and hasn't tried it yet, you owe it to yourself :P

Re:No Freespace, either?

[Soulfarmer]

So true! I know there are some mods for fs2, haven't tried them yet, but oh man that game kicks major ass. Immersion is better than in any other game in that same genre, those huuuge beam emitting space vessels really feel like they could crush the player like a bug.

I might need to reinstall the original fs2 once again...

Re:No Freespace, either?

[checkup21]

and you can land on planets (or at least crash on the surface).

I wont accept anything less! Even elite2 could do this. They all can dump their "Space Sims" when they are "space only". I want Planets!!! Damned.

Re:No Freespace, either?

[Rycross]

You've sold me. Thats exactly what I want in a space sim, and I was recently lamenting that there didn't seem to be any around, and someone should make it. I'm going to go looking for a copy now.

Re:No Freespace, either?

[Anonymous Coward]

where can one go pick up freespace 2?

Re:No Freespace, either?

[muellerr1]

That is the coolest thing I've ever seen. I'm going to look it up. I can't shake the feeling that if I play that game and get the high score that I'll get visited by a mysterious alien and recruited to save the galaxy.

Re:No Freespace, either?

[drgs100]

This sounds like the best thing to happen in gaming since Elite

Re:No Freespace, either?

[Anonymous Coward]

This torrent seems legit. Haven't used it myself but it seemed to come from a reputable source. If it doesn't work there's lots of others out there. Good luck.

Re:No Freespace, either?

[Sage Gaspar]

Hehe, wow, glad to see people are getting on board with Freespace 2. It actually can cost a good amount of money for a used box copy depending on where you get it. I've seen some cheap on Ebay but generally it can be a little pricy since it's out-of-print.

I don't want to put any undue attention on specific links for both Slashdotting reasons and because hosting it for anonymous users on the web isn't kosher yet, but given the legal situation, it's not too far off from it. It's only 100% legitimate if you're friends with the person that lets you download the game, so if you want to follow the letter of the law, introduce yourself at a forum and ask if anyone has a download for ya. Ethically and by the spirit of the EULA and open-sourcing, I think at this point it's pretty much open season no matter if you make friends with the server host or not. If you briefly search around the major player-made forums and abandonware sites, you'll come up with download links and torrents very quick. Some include the open source project with it, for others you'll need to download it separately. Some also include the cutscenes, which I'd recommend just for completeness. I've also caught wind of Linux and Mac versions, but I have absolutely no idea how far along they are.

Freespace 1, by the way, is still pretty good. It's not OS and doesn't have a graphics update project like FS2, but I enjoyed it just for the sake of having another campaign to play through.

Man, I'm going to have to go back and replay it now :P

Re:No Freespace, either?

[KatchooNJ]

I think that might be the torrent that I got it from. Grab it up! You won't regret it! :)

Re:No Freespace, either?

[Anonymous Coward]

This space sim appears to have trouble simulating the propagation of sound in vacuum.

Re:No Freespace, either?

[Sage Gaspar]

This space sim appears to have trouble simulating the propagation of sound in vacuum.

Naw, ya see, you're in this ship, and the computer automatically takes a visual feed and translates it into noisy shots and explosions.

*shifty eyes*

And WTF good is a giant ship killing beam if it doesn't make a big ship killing noise :P

Re:No Freespace, either?

[Rycross]

So you can make copies if you're friends with the person? Nice! I think I have a friend with the game.

Re:No Freespace, either?

[Barromind]

Actually, from my remembrances of playing fs2, the video doesn't make full honor to the game, even if they've now enhanced the graphics. It truly is the space sim all wing commander fans were dreaming of.

I remember the missile launchings... the energy lances around you... the first mission in the nebulae.

Get it, you won't regret it.

A classic

[undii]

I thought someone would have mentioned Alone in the dark (first) by now!

my list:

[dunkelfalke]

1: deus ex
2: privateer 1
3: dune 1
4: unreal
5: prince of persia

Re:UT Quake

[xtieburn]

That would be true if Quake hadnt already done it and had a cracking single player game to boot.

Quake3 was pretty, but underneath the graphics it was essentially just multiplayer Quake with slightly different (Slightly better or worse depending on who you talk to.) weapons.

Though personally my favorite has always been Quake2, Quake remains the pinnacle of fast paced FPS.

teh bezt 4 rlz!!!!

[sentientbrendan]

My own list by category:

best RTS: starcraft
best japanese style RPG: chrono trigger (by FAR)
best americdan style RPG: fallout
best arcade: tetris
best FPS: half life 2
best game where you roll shit up in a ball: katamari damacy
best game where you kill a walking mountain with a porch built into it: shadow of the collosus
best game where you are a cowboy: dust

I can do what they do

[Smuffe]

My list:

1) Civilization II - It's simply the best version. I have about 1 GB in compressed savefiles somewhere around my harddrive, haven't played it for about 3 years though.

2) Diablo II - No other meaningless hack & slash has made me just sit there and play as much as this one. So simple to learn, yet for some strange reason so compelling to continue playing.

3) Tiberian Sun - My choice among the RTS:es (since it's the only one I was really good at).

4) Sensible Soccer - Back in the days, this was the only football (soccer) game of them all that implemented exactly the level of detail I am looking for in a sports game. I don't need closeups or commentary or the exact shirtsponsors or other crap. If I press fire and then move the stick to the left the ball should go a little to the left. That's it.

5) Pushover - The only puzzle game I ever played more than 12 hours in a row. But I was darned happy when I completed it in a week after I got it. What a week though.

The list is a complete sham

[coolgeek]

They forgot the best game ever, Robotron: 2084

Freespace

[wild_quinine]

Descent is also credited as the first true 3D polygon based game.

So much for all the freespace games, I guess. Driller, anyone? Anyone remember Laser Squad? That would be a top five pick, if it hadn't been murdered a few years later by X-com. - Matt

You didn't ask, but I'm telling you anyway

[mcc]

1. Ico
2. Abe's Oddysee
3. Super Metroid
4. Final Fantasy VI
5. Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

good games

[Anonymous Coward]

That's easy.
Rogue
Sim City
Asteroids (or space war, for a multi-player version)
Marble Madness
Half Life II

I call bullshit.

[einexile]

Subspace seconded.

The article is pure flamebait, and those are not honest picks. They are angry, attention-starved lists designed to shock, irritate, whatever. They think the best games ever are Super Mario 3, Half-Life, World of Warcraft, whichever Zelda, and Halo 2 - just like everybody else.

come on whats this ?

[asbohnenkamp]

no Dungeon Master, no Wizardry, no Turrican, no Populus etc. ... did they ever play something?

What a crap article. 30 pages!

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyways, here are my top five games:

1. UFO: Enemy Unknown (aka XCOM) - PC
2. Secret of Mana (aka Seiken Desnsetsu 2) - SNES
3. Shadowrun - SNES
4. World of Warcraft - PC/MAC
5. Betrayal at Krondor - PC

Top 5 truths about "Top X" lists.

[Anonymous Coward]

1. There is no ''best', or ''top x'' of any subjective topic like video games.
2. see # 1
3. see # 1
4. see # 1
5. see # 1

Yes, it's fun to discuss our favorites, it's in our nature. I just hate how these articles are labeled as if they're really some kind of revalation, and how people argue about them as if they're really supposed to be more than just somone's opinion. They can't just call an article ''so-and-so's favorite X of all time''... It has to be ''THE Best'' or ''THE Top'' ... :(

Yes, I can get over it. :)

Re:Top 5 truths about "Top X" lists.

[Anonymous Coward]

I just hate how these articles are labeled as if they're really some kind of revalation, and how people argue about them as if they're really supposed to be more than just somone's opinion.

No your OPINION on this matter is wrong(and subjective), my list is completely objective. :)

New Games to Play!

[kidalimbo]

Wow, and Slashdot answers my question to a previous post with this post. I was wondering what the heck to play while waiting for the a.g.e. web-based game to be developed http://www.playavarice.com/. And, then I find I've never really played any of these top 5 games, so it's off to the store - okay off to the demos first.

Yet another top 5 list

[CBWest76]

Some real head scratchers on those lists - I mean, games that I liked, but sure wouldn't consider top 5 of all time (Blade Runner, Lemmings, X vs Tie?) Here's the way I see it: 1. Civilization II (edging IV due to longevity) 2. Star Control II (they just don't make games like this anymore) 3. Master of Orion (still the best of its kind over a decade later) 4. Diablo II (Got more playtime and fun out of the original, but that was due to time and place. The sequel was the far superior game.) 5. Quake (Tough to decide between this and Doom) Honorable mentions: Starcraft, X-Com, Dungeon Master/Chaos Strikes Back, Planescape: Torment, Street Fighter II, Deus Ex, Carrier Command Other Old Faves I wanted to mention that don't quite make the cut: Reach for the Stars, Ports of Call, Populous, Quest for Glory II (best of the series, though it hasn't aged well graphically), Magic Carpet, Tradewars

Re:Yet another top 5 list

[CBWest76]

**Proper formatting, FTW!**

Some real head scratchers on those lists - I mean, games that I liked, but sure wouldn't consider top 5 of all time (Blade Runner, Lemmings, X vs Tie?)

Here's the way I see it: 1. Civilization II (edging IV due to longevity)
2. Star Control II (they just don't make games like this anymore)
3. Master of Orion (still the best of its kind over a decade later)
4. Diablo II (Got more playtime and fun out of the original, but that was due to time and place. The sequel was the far superior game.)
5. Quake (Tough to decide between this and Doom)

Honorable mentions: Starcraft, X-Com, Dungeon Master/Chaos Strikes Back, Planescape: Torment, Street Fighter II, Deus Ex, Carrier Command

Other Old Faves I wanted to mention that don't quite make the cut: Reach for the Stars, Ports of Call, Populous, Quest for Glory II (best of the series, though it hasn't aged well graphically), Magic Carpet, Tradewars

Since everyone is posting their own lists.

[EnsilZah]

Here's mine:

Fallout series / Planescape Torment
Battlezone series (the one by Pandemic/Activision)
Homeworld series
Betrayal at Krondor
The Dig

Xenon 2, Wing Commander 2, System Shock,

[Down_in_the_Park]

Independence War and Unreal Tournament, the last one because of the assault mode. Those were the games that had a great game play and also either fast paced action or a fantastic atmosphere (Independence War and System Shock)

Re:Online Scrabble & Chess & the game of s

[56ker]

What would be interesting though would be a top 5 games slashdot commenters play eg:-

1) Trolling
2) Providing a link to the ad free version of the article
3) Saying something totally obvious but because you write more than a paragraph hoping it'll get modded as insightful
4) Karma whoring
5) Karma whoring other posts (eg mod parent up please!)

SOLITAIRE and/or PATIENCE

[ecbpro]

These are definately the most popular pc games ever! Right after the Notepad the best program ever written by Microsoft. No honestly, I have never been an a company where people were not playing that game on their PCs :) This game is by default installed on each Windows machine.

Re:UT Quake

[teslar]

Quake 3? That the game where they make you jump around in space using big jump pads as if you were in some kind of friggin' Super Mario jump'n'run just so that your mate who's been perfecting his Railgun skills all month can just pluck you from the sky before you even make it to the yellow armour? You must have been the one with the Railgun if you call that perfect and balanced :)

Roguealikes?

[deletedaccount]

There's no mention of the granddaddy of them all, nor any of it's modern incarnations. Where's the real classic rogue/moria/nethack/angband etc? Shoddy shoddy stuff.

Re:What? No Panzer Dragoon Saga?

[buffer-overflowed]

Saga is indeed awesome. Had Orta been like Saga, I probably would've gotten an XBox.

Greatest game of all time tho... that's tough.

Re:Oh yeah! Spectrum Chaos! Yeah*2!

[MrvFD]

I remembered Chaos instantly, and it really was great! I algo got it via Your Sinclair cassette, and it was incredible that something as good as that came free with the magazine. It was on top of my gaming list for years, and I have it on my computer (to run via some of the Spectrum emulators for *nix) at this very moment, too.

real list

[Anonymous Coward]

- civ & the crew
- wolf 3D & quake 1
- xenon-2 & the crew
- myst & the crew
- streetfigther & the crew
- rogue& the crew
- nfs1

note that i didnt include pong and pacman

all the games listed were a bringing a new kind of game or at least slightly new (for me) and every other only copied, the rest is just better graphics.

Re:real list

[Tom_M_Riddle]

Dude.
The *real* list includes both "Congo Bongo" and "Zaxxon." You know it, and I know it.
*smile*

What, no Homeworld?

[cruachan]

For my money that moment when you jump back to Kharak to find it's been destroyed - and Barber's Adagio for strings kicks in in the background is the single most stunning game moment ever. Only time for me that a game has had the same emotional hit as a film.

So for the record my list

1. Homeworld
2. Civ 4 (I like the depth of the new one)
3. Freespace II (was this the last good space sim?)
4. Doom (not really an FPS fan, but I played this obsesively when it came out)
5. Europa Universalis II

Europa Universalis may seem a bit odd too, but if you like any form of alternative history it's compelling - what would happen if Burgundy had remained independent? or Catalonia had combined with the kingdom of oc? or the Hansa had unified Germany instead of Prussia? Immense replay value.

Re:What, no Homeworld?

[Tom_M_Riddle]

I'd forgotten "Homeworld." The best game demo I'd ever seen...until I finally finished the monster download (56K modem) for the "Freespace II Demo. " Stunned, captivated, blown away, I bought Freespace (II and I.) Fully occupied, I never got around to buying the two Homeworld games. By the time I realized it could be found for cheap, it was out of print. Ya know, now that I think of it, I haven't seen anything to match Freepsace 2 within genre. I'd always wished for a port or re-imagining to PS2...but time ran out again.

STAR CONTROL 2 NEEDS THE TOP OF THE LIST

[unity100]

This is Trade Master Greenish in command of the Melnorme Starship "Inevitably Successfull Under All Circumstances" i bid you a formal welcome ./ers !!

Yes sireeeee !!!!

Best game ever made, a hybrid, an epic journey of immense proportions.

Those who havent caught up with it yet can do so by getting it free at http://sc2.sourceforge.net/

Ur quan masters is the port of sc2 from 3do version, but you are able to set the whole game to its much revered pc version state in config. Creators of the game released the game as open source to its community.

Go go go !

mod parent up please!

[Anonymous Coward]

...so I'm a whore. /shrug

Re:mod parent up please!

[rca66]

...so I'm a whore

Worse - you are an anonymous cowardly whore.

Where's...

[howtoo]

Bubble Bobble, Zelda for SNES, Megaman series, Monkey Island, etc... They've completely missed all the best games. Who gives a shit about N64? And where's Quake 1 at least?? Man, we used to have a good time with that one..

My Top 5 List

[publius1234]

I thought I'd throw in my own top 5 list:

• Pirates (Apple IIgs version)
• Wasteland
• Bard's Tale III
• Civilization II
• Counterstrike

Here I go too

[advid.net]

Here's my top 5, they may remind you good memories ...

Sid Mier's Civilisation / CivNet (PC, nice 9h sitting non stop)
StartCraft (PC, current success 8 years later shows how good it was and still is)
Duke Nukem 3D (PC, for its excellent gameplay and great 3D fun with friends, even on slow PC, something really new happened)
Lode Runner [ Apple //e ] ( Conan or Boulder Dash could have been mentionned too, Transylvania also )
OGame ( online game, great time consumer )

Diablo II is the 6th.

Fallout, anyone?

[pyce]

Anyone? Hello? Heeeelllooo... ellloooo... loooo... oo

Re:Fallout, anyone?

[TomAnthony]

Worry not, brother! I am here! Fallout 2 should make any such list!

So many of the good games left out.

[Drachenkruez]

No Freespace,no Star Control 2 (the best of all time),no Nethack,and no C&C:Yuri's Revenge? Atleast one had the decency to but JK:Dark Forces 2

Metacritic

[Mr_Silver]

Metacritic agrigates reviews from all the main games sites and comes up with a combined score.

According to them, the top 7 games are:

• [ps2] Grand Theft Auto III (97%)
• [ps2] Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 (97%)
• [xbox] Halo (97%)
• [pc] Half-Life 2 (96%)
• [pc] Half-Life (96%)
• [ps2] Grand Theft Auto Double Pack (96%)

Interestingly, the top Gamecube one is Mario Kart DS at 91%.

Personally, my favourites were Half-Life 2 and Half-Life on the PC and Sensible Soccer and Megalomania on the Amiga.

NO PACMAN?!

[Anonymous Coward]

OK. Tell me pacman sucks... but it surely deserves a place on the list.

Aswan, you infidel!

[Anonymous Coward]

and may Allah have mercy on your soul!

Amiga-origin games listed under "PC"

[Anonymous Coward]

Real revisionist history, there. Kick Off? A PC game? ***Lemmings*** ? At the time, the PC was undeniably technologically inferior to the amiga, and I remember comparing the PC port and Amiga versions of both those games side-by-side: The Amiga lemmmings had smooth scrolling, high quality sound, better graphics, and a simultaneous 2-player mode....

This is giving the PC platform undue credit, perhaps the reviewer was an american who only ever played such later ports of amiga games to the PC, which always ended up inferior in the amiga heyday owing to PC technological limitations. Certainly not to be "trusted" as authoritative best ever gaming history.

Re:Amiga-origin games listed under "PC"

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it looks like the reviewer was a UKian who was almost certainly playing them on the Amiga??? So why say PC? WHY do people try to write the amiga out of gaming history?

Re:Amiga-origin games listed under "PC"

[east coast]

Actually, I think it's fairly correct.

The Amiga is a PC. PC being personal computer and not "IBM Compatible" which is a different matter in and of itself.

Had more people seen the Amiga as a PC we may still have Amigas today.

Re:Amiga-origin games listed under "PC"

[tomservo84]

If only they had...I had an Amiga and only switched to an "IBM Compatible" PC once it was thrown away by Commodore (and it was a while after that, actually). Loved the computer...would be using it still if I only had the desk space.

Re:Star Control II, Half-Life, X-Com UFO, Evil Gen

[CBWest76]

Calling Star Control II "a relatively uninspired remake of Starflight" is like calling Starcraft a relatively uninspired remake of Dune II. All are great games. While the former are the original innovators of the genre, the latter are superior genre defining games.

I agree wholeheartedly about the RTS vs turn based strategy game issue, though. I'd much rather see evolutions of innovative games such as X-Com, Maelstrom, and Master of Magic rather than Dune II / Warcraft retread #5000.

Exile on the BBC Master - awesome!

[daern]

Surely, one of the finest games ever, in gameplay, longevity and use of the hardware:

http://www.exile.acornarcade.com/

The game ran on the 32k BBC B (although you only got speech on the 128k Master) *without* doing any multi-loading. Once the game was loaded, it was loaded and never touched the disk again.

Because of the limitation of the hardware, Exile had no in-game menus. If you wanted to save your game, you hit a weird combination of keys, which wrote the save game into a weird part of memory, then hard-booted the BBC. When you reloaded the pre-game menu, it found the save game (probably stored in the printer buffer or something) and you could save to disk. Mental.

In fact, the game even overwrote the video buffer with game data during loading, thus corrupting the screen as it booted, but giving the developers a few extra bytes to use :-)

Nothing has ever come close.

Daern

Short memory! the reviewers were too young!

[master_p]

The top 5 games of all times, in no particular order:

1. Ms Pac Man : the best Pac Man game and the most successful coin-op ever.

2. World Of Warcraft : best multiplayer game ever.

3. Half Life : best FPS single-player game ever.

4. Civilization : best strategy game ever.

5. Tetris : best action puzzle game ever.

Another awful list!

[crhylove]

They did get some of the essentials at least this time, but seriously, no version of quake?!? No version of GTA?!? Civ instead of Civ II?

My top five is much better, mod me up:

1. Grand Theft Auto : San Andreas
2. Super Mario 64
3. Quake 2
4. Civilization 2
5. Mario Kart 64

They did mention super mario 64, which makes them not retarded I suppose, but seriously.... some of their choices over GTA: San Andreas or Mario Kart, or Quake 2...... Clearly shows them not to be much of a gamer in the end. Truth be told not having one of the original NES Super Mario games in ANY of the lists is also a crime against humanity. I apologize.

rhY

I call this list bullshit

[YGingras]

A great game is a game that you keep playing no matter how old it
is. Think chess and go vs monopoly. Yeah monopoly was kind of
popular and a lot of people played it. Many people that I know
who played monopoly didn't like chess or go. But it was
displaced by other board games. I think they play hive these
days. But still, student cafés in universities are still filled
with chess and go players.

A great game is a game that you have a hard time not to play. No
way that someone has to struggle not to play unreal tournament or
x-wings vs tie fighter. Those game died and no matter how you
liked playing them, the fact that you don't play anymore must
lead you to put then with monopoly in the good-but-dead games.
Contrast this with Nethack. A game that will hook
phds no matter how hold it is. The addiction to nethack is
really bad. I need deliberate effort not to continue my current
game and I know that if I do I'll spend at least one straight
night on it. Yes it happened that I played a game until I got
dizzy by the lack of food but nethack is the only one that I keep
playing. I wonder why we keep seeing those top-xx lists, they
are always filled with crap. They probably put random games in
there just to shock people so they'll submit to /. If your pick
doesn't stand the test of time, its probably not that great.

How could they forget...

[zugu]

Abe's Exodus?

Prince of Persia, Farcry

[Marrow]

People forget the old stuff, but they were great great games.

prince of persia
combat flight simulators
quake 1 and 2
The Jedi Knight games (1&2)

And the best damn game of all time is FARCRY

Wot? No "Elite"?

[Peet42]

The original "Elite" on the BBC Micro has got to qualify in the top five! Name me a single PC game that uses the hardware as completely and efficiently as that did? Many games since have been as playable, but none more playable. Truly absorbing stuff.

Incorrect Title

[Xichekolas]

The title of this submission should be: "Flamebait"

Claiming to know the top five games of all time is like picking the best religion or operating system. Someone, somewhere, is going to pick a fight... and 87 posts and 150 mod points later, no one agrees on anything.

Next up on /. ---- Top Five Best Magic Cards

In awe of the Bad Game

[Plutonite]

Who cares about your good games? It's the really terrible games that are very funny/very useful.

For e.g if I want to convince myself to go to the gym, I need to frustrate myself/get semi-pissed/get rowdy. I immediately fire up Driver 3.

Driver 3, and troll-mod me to hell, is the worst game mankind has ever concieved. It is so bad you get pissed before the map loads. So bad that it looks like someone transformed 3D into 2D. It's so fucking terrible in all respects that I sometimes show it to friends to make them laugh.

There is a certain quality in bad games that is just unattainable through imagination/hard work. They couldn't do this if they tried, and that puts you in awe of the Bad Game.

Top 5 Omissions:

[kahei]

1 -- Angband, and the Roguelike genre in general
2 -- The great 8 and 16 bit console RPGS -- no Phantasy Star, no 2D Final Fantasy, no Secret of Mana?
3 -- MMORPGs. I hate them, I don't play them, but to have none at all is strange.
4 -- Alpha Centauri, greatest Civ game.
5 -- Planescape: Torment.

I'm also surprised a bit by the absence of both the X-Com and Total War series.

I can understand omitting 2 and 5 if you don't have a soul. But the others are inexplicable!

Ad Grab!

[TheNinjaroach]

29 pages for a top FIVE list? Yeah, didn't make it past the first page.

TradeWars?

[Tut'n'common]

C'mon? Who hasn't spent hours on a 300 baud ( 0.3KBps?) connection to the BBS up the street? The battle to get the one phone line going into the board was as grueling as any of the fights inside the game!

Or, for the more recent, telnetting in and running your SST or SDT scripts. Planet drops, fig triggers, ship capture scripts. Coding an efficient script is half the game.

Someone back me up on this!

Re:TradeWars?

[SillyNickName4me]

C'mon? Who hasn't spent hours on a 300 baud ( 0.3KBps?) connection to the BBS up the street? The battle to get the one phone line going into the board was as grueling as any of the fights inside the game!

Me.. I used to be sysop myself and could play locally :)

Re:Wot? No "Elite"?

[daern]

Name me a single PC game that uses the hardware as completely and efficiently as that did?

Exile.

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=196531&c id=16102868

Better game too: "Exile is an even more enjoyable game to play than Elite or Zarch" - David Brabham, author of Elite. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Exile_Cover_BB CMicro_Disc.jpg)

Re:How I used to play CounterStrike

[TimeZone]

1: Do nothing, and spend no money for like 5 rounds, just to amass some money, since the server we played on gave us new credits at the beginning of each round. No idea if every server is like that.
2: Buy the chaingun and play one round as if it were Quake.
3: Die anyways.
4: Try to convince my friends to play Q3 or UT with me, instead of that stupid terrorists / CT game.

TZ

Love this story

[eclectic4]

1. X-Com, UFO Defense.
#1 on quite a few lists, why it hasn't been revived/duplicated in recent years is beyond me.

2. Ultima IV.
Falling asleep on my Apple IIc completely immersed in a different yet interactive world was the dawn of my love of gaming. Thank you Ultima IV

3. WoW.
A massive, and I mean massive world filled with adventure to be played in any way you wish, solo, with friends, etc... in a fantasy world filled with other personalities via other real humans from around the world. A complete alternate reality. Love it.

4. Grand Theft Auto.
First game where pure violence and mayhem was set in a completely open, big world, non-linear play in a modern world while mixed with super fun driving physics.

5. Doom.
Shooting things with guns in first person view. May have not been the first, and since it's all been basically the same with better graphics, but man was it fun.

Lists are like opinions...

[edmicman]

Everyone's got one, and they all stink.

Let's go old school

[chaoticzen]

I have been console, PC, and arcade gaming for about 30 years myself. I wonder why some of these games were not mentioned. These were fun, cutting edge for their time, and with absolute fun packed in with action. My TOP 5 List: 1) DOOM 2) Duke Nukem 3) Quake 4) Warcraft 5) Battlefield 1942

Yet another top 5 ever list...

[goonies]

This is my list (and the systems I played them on).

1) Civilization - Amiga
2) Gran Tourismo 3 - PS2
3) Lemmings - Amiga
4) Battlefield 1942 - PC
5) Zack Mac Cracken - Amiga

It also reflects my 'gamed the most' top 5 list. There are games like Zelda or Final Fantasy that might be on your list, but I never played them. Therefore I can't tell how they are. This is my list, no need to argue if it's wrong or right ;-). Oh, and about pacman... everyone knows pacman! It is probably the best known game out there in the non-gamers world, even the monks in Wachamacallistan know it... Bravo! Anyhow, it's not on my list because I din't play/like it much.

Other Bungie games

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget also by Bungie Myth: The Fallen Lords. It also has a great storyline, but unlike Marathon its gameplay is very different from any other game ever made, there is really nothing else like it.

By the way you can still play Myth II online.

Re:Other Bungie games

[sir_montag]

I really did enjoy Myth II: Soul Blighter, though I never really got a chance to play the first one. And it does seem like there hasn't been anything that has been very similar since.

speaking of bud...

[Anonymous Coward]

speaking of bud:

420: Amster Dam

Re:speaking of bud...

[albyrne5]

Aiii'!

List

[ThomasSobi]

In no particular order: Tribes Fallout 2 Civ 2 Counter Strike Masters of Orion 2

29 Pages????

[proxy318]

29 pages for a top 5 list. I'm a busy man, I need my entertainment in much smaller chunks.

Re:Oh yeah! Spectrum Chaos! Yeah*2!

[Anonymous Coward]

Chaos - written by Julian Gollop, the genius behind X-Com and Laser Sqaud.

There's a great version here:

http://www.mykeblack.com/flash/chaos/chaos_content .html

Bad List

[kahrytan]

The list doesn't even include the original Grand Theft Auto.

Though, my personal picks would include Master of Orion 2, Caesar 3, and Civilization 3

Behold, the top 5 videogames EVER (actually, 16)

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Deus Ex (Shooter/RPG, PC, 2000)
2. System Shock 2 (Shooter/RPG, PC, 1999)
3. Fallout 2 (RPG, PC, 1998)
4. Fallout (RPG, PC, 1997)
5. Half-Life (Shooter, PC, 1998)

What's that? You want the next 5 on my list as well? Oh, alright.

6. World of Warcraft (MMORPG, PC, 2004)
7. Chrono Trigger (RPG, SNES, 1995)
8. Icewind Dale 2 (RPG, PC, 2002)
9. Command & Conquer (RTS, PC, 1995)
10. X-COM: Terror From the Deep (Tactical/Strategy, PC, 1995)

You demand even more? Fine, fine, just put down the monkey and get off my sofa.

11. Anachronox (RPG, PC, 2001)
12. Doom (Shooter, PC, 1993)
13. Half-Life 2 (Shooter, PC, 2004)
14. Quake (Shooter, PC, 1996)
15. Might & Magic: World of Xeen (RPG, PC, 1994)
16. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (RPG, PC/Xbox, 2003)

Expect BioShock to invade the top 10 (or perhaps even the top 5) when released next year.

Trusted!

[beaverfever]

Yeah, but this is "Trusted Reviews" - if we can't trust them, then who can we trust?

My List

[SlayerDave]

1. Far Cry
2. Half-Life 2
3. Guitar Hero
4. Resident Evil 4
5. F.E.A.R. (my favorite multiplayer)

Man, Spode was right on the ball !

[Dare978Devil]

Commander Keen! I haven't thought about that game in 10 years! I played that game over and over and over again. The original Doom. That should be on everyone's list. It started the whole shareware movement by giving you the first entire game free. Yes, I know, there were others before Doom (such as Wolfenstein 3D), but at my office, all the geeks (my included) stayed behind to play Doom every single day. Lemmings. Can't believe how much time I wasted on that game, it was incredibly addictive. Day of the Tentacle. I am amazed someone would add this to their list. I remember when I bought this game, I thought the graphics were "incredible". HAHAHA! And Monkey Island. That brings back memories. I don't think I ever played the second one, but thought the first one was great. Commander Keen!!!

No

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, I would say Doom did *re*create the genre, while Wolf3d created it. Sure wolf may not have been the first fps, but it gave the genre a significant spot on the map.

Re:Wot? No "Elite"?

[SillyNickName4me]

"Exile is an even more enjoyable game to play than Elite or Zarch" - David Brabham, author of Elite.

Correction, David is one of the 2 original authors of Elite, the other one is Ian Bell. Seeing the sequals to Elite which were made by David, I am not so sure his opinion counts for much.

Re:My own list (no fair)

[gosand]

No fair putting arcade games in the list. After all, those are REAL games, from the real gaming age. So many memories. I don't think you can compare them to PC or console games, it was just .... different then. Being in an arcade was just... different. You had to spend your hard-earned money to play them. They were all new, and hard in their own ways. The entire experience was something that today's (and really yesterday's) kids just will never get to experience. I am just so glad that I did. Visit KLOV for a trip down memory lane.

(I am really surprised nobody mentioned Quake. Yeah, Doom was cool, but Quake Mega Team Fortress was just awesome IMO. Half-life and Unreal Tournament were amazing, but Quake kind of holds a special place.

well atleast Unreal Tournament is on their lists

[kaysan]

and with that game on there, it might as well have been a top 1 all-time-games list!

Five is too few

[Risen888]

Pete's Top Ten Video Games of Forever:

#10 - Wolfenstein 3D: Piss on your CounterStrike. The hell with Resident Evil. Fuck Doom. It started here. We love to kill the Nazis.
#9 - Mario Kart 64: Eight characters, sixteen levels. A lifetime of discovery. As fresh today as it was the day it shipped. I don't care who you are, how many hours you've logged, we are all still learning Mario Kart.
#8 - Final Fantasy 1: Forever changed the way video RPGs are made. Granddaddy of the genre.
#7 - Baldur's Gate Series: Remember what I was saying about Final Fantasy? This game changed everything. Again.
#6 - Tetris: The game that spawned the synonym "crack" for video games. The first game for which there were recovery groups.
#5 - Super Mario 3: You don't even have to like it. Given the time and the technology, hands down the most innovative game ever. Ever.
#4 - Grand Theft Auto Series: Completely immersive, worlds unto themselves. Great storylines. Characters with character. What else do you need?
#3 - Civilization Series: What can I say that hasn't been said? Build 'em. Grow 'em. Kill 'em. Do it again. And again. And again. Fifteen years later, it's still getting better. Civ 4 is revolutionizing TBS all over again.
#2 - Galaga: The #1 game of 1981. Put Namco on the map. The top-grossing arcade game in history. Bigger than Space Invaders, bigger than Pac-Man. Out there eating quarters in the back of a bar somewhere right now.
#1 - Nethack: The deepest game in the world. Twenty-two years of development and counting. People play this game for ten years without beating it once. Welcome to Nethack!

Ugh I'll avoid that site from now on.

[kinglink]

How many of them chose the top 5 best games? And how many chose the 5 best games for them?

and how many of them only chose PC games? Seriously if they want to be known as reviewers being PC centric is not the way to go in this vast changing world of ours. Spode just chose good series, Gordon chose three no names and two popular games. Hell Benny choose counterstrike, it's a mod, not a game.

It appears others understand this but the top 5 best games in this format is more the meaningless, it's silly.

Games people love to hate

[east coast]

My own top 5 (in no real order)

1. Elite
Good lord, this was a fantastic game. Flight simulation in space with pirates and lasers and killing! The best. I can still remember the day I first picked up a police escape pod with my fuel scoops and it listed them as "Slaves"! Kick ass!

2. Half Life
Yeah, I know it's on everyones list. It's also that good not to mention the entire "mod" thing. Any games that has seriously good mods without having to be a developer to get them running well on your system is worth three times it's sticker price. So yes, I'm including great stuff like Counter Strike, Firearms and Team Fortress as well.

3. Civ III
I can not, by rights, list the entire Civ series. Civ I&II were simplistic to the point I was nearly annoyed. I just can't get into Civ IV for some reason. I still load Civ III and play it on a fairly regular basis. I have bitched and moaned about the endgame points/victory system, sure, but I'm not playing for that. I love the gameplay in and of itself outside of what Sid thinks of me being "East the Weak".

4. Alice
I have played this over and over and over. It's visually and conceptually fantastic. McGee's use of the Alice story is well adjusted to the game. I normally hate third person games but it works well in Alice. Perhaps the best video game soundtrack ever. It's more of an experience than a game.

5. Thief
The best game ever. Simply the best. It's an absorbing game. Its play is open enough to be fun and gives the player a chance to be inventive. The storyline works. Not every mission is the same thing over and over again. I could go on and on. Not to mention Dark Loader and the tons of fan missions out there, some of these are unbelievable. Well worth the time to investigate.

Re:Games people love to hate

[KatchooNJ]

Now THIS is a list. I agree with every single thing on here, with the exception of Civ3... but that is only because I haven't played Civ3. ;-) Civ2 is the game I know and love, but I will have to check out 3 now to see if it truly is that much better. :-)

By the way, I remember the first time I scooped an escape pod and it showed as "slaves" in the cargo bay, I nearly fainted. lol I couldn't believe they included that in the game. That was a riot! Well... of to the nearest Coriolis Space Station to dock and sell my cargo. ;-) *humming the docking computer music* (Blue Danube, btw.) ;-)

29 pages for top 5 !?!

[alcmaeon]

Sorry, I'm not reading an article that gives someone's opinion of the top 5 games but runs 29 pages. They can scam their advertisers some other way. How does this crap even make it to slashdot. Don't we have admins or something who exercise some discretion over the selections?

Re:29 pages for top 5 !?!

[joeljkp]

It's 5 people each naming their top 5 games, for a total of 25 pages, plus some introductory material.

Starcraft

[Shadowlore]

This game is still selling in the stores. Ten bucks, new. Patches still come out for it (it's still supported). Even if I didn't like the game I'd have to admit that it belongs in any "top X of ALL TIME" list of video games. The game has been selling for what, about ten years now? How many other video games in any genre are still selling in "ordinary" stores after that much time? You can still buy Starcraft at Walmart, Hastings, Best Buy, etc.. This fact alone makes it an objective cause for it to be listed. The fact that such considerations were not done tells me this is just a "i like these games and my opinion matters" production. Big deal.

Re:Starcraft

[Jelizabug]

How true! I played this game for hours, dreamed about it, spent way too much time on it when it came out. About two months ago a friend of mine got addicted to it, and when I went to Target to get him a copy they still had a shelf devoted to it (with Diablo I and II as well). We've played nearly every night since... and the game is still as great as ever.

So, my list too

[Jimpqfly]

1/ Tetris (no comment) 2/ Gradius (get a Nec ...) 3/ Dune (first real VGA game in my opinion...) 4/ Dune 2 (not perfect, but a revolution) 5/ Half Life (first good solo FPS)

Why Doom and not Quake

[Anonymous Coward]

Doom: many of the grunts can be taken out before they hit you. You can try to ace the game. Quake needed two shotgun blasts to get rid of a grund and others were harder. You couldn't get through unscathed.

Quake=Beige. Ugh

Doom=Scary bits you never got with Wolf3D. Quake had some but it had already been done and better

Despite Doom being sprite based, it meant you had a big barney with lots of critters at a good level of visual detail. Quake used 3d objects which meant fewer critters and less detailed look.

Doom free for episode 1.

ICO and Shadow Of the Collosus Best games ever

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

ICO is the best game ever made.

Its kinda funny

[paynesmanor]

best of the top games are from the 64, Which was a cartrage game system!! Fast loads, awasome game play, and well designed games. Cool...

Re:Wot? No "Elite"?

[daern]

I sort of enjoyed Frontier. In a sort-of-nearly-unplayable-sort-of-way.

My 2 cents

[Clever7Devil]

Ok, I have to partake in this wonderful discussion. This would be much more interesting if, after we developed what the true genres of games are, made our choice of best for each genre. My personal gaming biases are going to tilt this list a lot. 5 is a really low number too.

1) The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
2) Lucas Arts Classic Collection: Sam and Max; DotT; Fate of Atlantis; The Dig; X-Wing vs. Tie-Fighter (I cheated ;-))
3) Tribes
4) Donkey Kong Country
5) Super Mario World

Jesus, so many more I want to put down there, but that'll have to do for now.

Re:Wot? No "Elite"?

[SillyNickName4me]

I did as well, and after many fixes and hacks, I even enjoyed first encounters. I wont consider either a good game however.

Starflight was extremely quality

[Combatjuan]

Gregg,
I looked through your page a bit and at the forums and didn't see a license on this game. I'm somewhat interested in helping or at least sharing some code. I'm currently working on my own space exploration/combat/colonizing/trading game based heavily on dynamic and fractal-based content. Is OuterSpace open source? Also, are there plans to make it multi-platform?

Cheers,
Charles

Re:Starflight was extremely quality

[GreggBz]

Ok, shoot me an e-mail. My address is on the main page, towards the bottom.
There is not a licence, but right now the game is closed source, freeware.
I need to investigate a licence.

Development is all in .NET DirectX 9.0c.

The plan is to get it done. =)
I'd love to port it to SDL/OpenGL/Linux eventually, but only after it's done.

The best game isn't even mentionned

[DeeDob]

A few years back, IGN made a top 100 list.

Their number 1 game of all time was Super Mario Bros 1.

I agree with them. This is arguably THE most recognized video game in the world. Everyone over 20 played it at some point in their life. Everybody knows it's music by heart.

Unless i'm wrong, it's also the game the sold the most in video game history (although it may be more due to the fact that it came with the NES).

X-COM... Best Demo Ever

[huckamania]

I played the X-Com demo that came on a 3.5 inch floppy with CGW. It was hard, really hard. It took us a day just to figure out how to survive getting out of the landing vehicle. It took another day to figure out you could go up stairs and throw grenades. We never won once.

When the game came out and we shot down a UFO, we kept hearing a whooshing sound. I remember saying that there must be a door into the UFO and everyone was like, yeah right. When I found the door, just about everyone's jaw dropped. It was obvious to us then that this game was deep.

Awesome game, awesome demo and they just don't make 'em like that anymore.

I have never won NetHack!

[us7892]

I think it must be impossible. I haven't read enough spoilers. I've played Nethack for years. I've never ascended to win. It really is a great game. I have a little icon on my desktop and I play from time-to-time. I prefer being a Wizard or a Tourist.

Not really

[phorm]

There were actually a lot of clones at the time, many which weren't very good, but all along the general idea. Wolf3d was interesting, but it got pretty dull partway in. Doom on the other hand, introduced network multiplay, which was a big step forward as FPS's suddenly became a group activity and allowed multiple peoples to play.

Can someone tell me...

[Spittles]

...why Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe isn't in there? More time than I care to disclose was spent in front of my Amiga playing that gem!

Adventure

[Anonymous Coward]

Adventure for the Atari 2600 (Warren Robbinett forever)

aaa the old white (or clear dot) dot trick. bring the dot to on the the 'wall' down and left of the gold (pink on my TV) castle. Then bring on some other items and you could pass through the wall to see: Created by Warreen Robbinett

and the 'dragons' that never turned but could kill (eat) you through the back of their heads was always funny. That and switching to expert and novice to watch the dragon come after you/run away from you was funny.

Where is Dam Yankees?

[Savatte]

If the Nuge were here, he'd be up in arms!

Interesting Criteria for "Best Game"...

[Wandering Wombat]

... personally I'd go with the ones that were actually good, not just 'good for their time'. Let's face it, Go (the game with the board and the black and white discs) is way better than just about any of those games, but it doesn't seem to be on the list, despite coming out several hundred years earler and forever changing the Strategy Game genre. Everyone seems to be obsessed with "Alone in the Dark predates Resident Evil" or "Game Y predates Game X", and yet they only look as far back as their own childhoods. Still, some games on the list are actually great games, so I give kudos to the people who can think about more than shiny swords and eight mighty bits.

This list sucks.

[Khyber]

What about the very first game ever made on a computer? Without that first game odds are gaming would have never taken off. Looks like these "Top 5" list writers need to read Stephen Levy's "Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution."

My (old school) list

[Hachey]

1. Marathon (MAC)
2. Half-Life (PC)
3. The Legend of Zelda (NES)
4. Damage Inc. (MAC)
5. Escape Velocity (MAC)

My Top 11

[eutychus_awakes]

bridge
checkers
chess
poker
fighter combat
guerrilla engagement
desert warfare
air-to-ground actions
theaterwide tactical warfare
theaterwide biotoxic and chemical warfare

global thermonuclear war

Of course, these are only available on the WOPR. Shall we play a game?
(The list would look better in all-caps. Stupid lameness filter!)

Re:My Top 11

[KatchooNJ]

LOL! The scary thing is that I figured out what this was from before even getting to the bottom of the list. Wow, I'm a geek sometimes! lol :-)

My top 5

[Screamer49]

Here's my top 5, in no particular order

- Half-Life (PC)
- Tecmo Super Bowl (NES)
- Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast (PC)
- Civilization (PC)
- Zelda: A Link to the Past (Gameboy)

While EverQuest probably deserves a spot on my list this discussion seemed to exclude MMORPGs. However, there was just something about the first few month of playing EQ. I've yet to experience anything like that before or since (and I've tried plenty other MMORPGs)

Super Metroid

[mattcoz]

No top 5 list should be without Super Metroid.

Old School

[CrazyTalk]

The site's been slashdotted so I can't see their list, but here is mine:

1. Sinistar ("I hunger!")
2. Berzerk ("Intruder Alert!")
3. Moon Patrol
4. Tempest
5. Space Invaders ("kish! kish!")

Re:Star Control II, Half-Life, X-Com UFO, Evil Gen

[pthisis]

Calling Star Control II "a relatively uninspired remake of Starflight" is like calling Starcraft a relatively uninspired remake of Dune II.

This makes no sense to me--Dune II and Starcraft are different games. One draws a lot of ideas from the other, but they're not the same game.

Star Control II is _literally_ a remake of Starflight. They got the orignal Starflight programmers and designer back and updated the graphics/sound and added arcade sequences. They left the ship upgrades, overall game mechanics, planetary exploration, and navigation the same, but changed the names of the alien races and redid the maps.

Here I sit/so brokenhearted...

[thegnu]

...it seems TFA/has been slashdotted.

Myst-ery

[Nom du Keyboard]

Any list that doesn't include Myst can't convince me of its authenticity.

Completely agree with the selections of Super Mario 64 and Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

6 Best Black and White Games for System 6

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, Macintosh System 6.

1. Dark Castle
2. Beyond Dark Castle
3. Loom
4. Lode Runner
5. Shadowgate
6. The Uninvited

My 5 best Game ALL time List, Review at will

[Cutting_Crew]

These are the games that are not only my favorite but have withstood the test of time:

#1. Pac-Man - Yes the yellow, 3/4th's of a pie little critter, running from ghosts and speeding through tunnels is simple, almost anyone can play it(how well is relative, i myself am the pac-man king) and it is recognized by all ages, gender and demographic imaginable and overall a great influentual program as well. I was amazed that not only Pac-Man didnt make their top 5 but NOT ONE of them even had it up for consideration. This is a red flag right here as to their possible bias.

#2. Starcraft - someone already mentioned this.. replayability, popularity and the ever popular urge to hop into space and kick but on Blizzard.net has made this one of the best RTS game available. Sure it doesnt have 3-D graphics but its still fun. Jot down a note for all the omg!!11 3D developers out there wanting to make everything look purrrty instead of paying attention to gameplay and fun-ness. I cant believe that i can walk into Best Buy, EB Games or China-mart and its still sitting there on the shelves.

#3. Age of Empires - SEE #2 above, lots of replayability, shifted from the 2D to 3-D graphics with the later releases but still has the attention to detail that hard core players demand and not just pretty graphics pasted onto the screen. #4. Sims Series - Jot down another note all your "lets make the best graphics guru's". Females want to play computer games so give them what they want. Admittedly i didnt play this very much and some men do play it but this does tend to attract the right-brained people(most girls) with little or no desire to see blood spattering everywhere and people getting killed. It still requires thought, attention to detail and encourages socialization on and off the web as you can play online with people you know or dont know. This has also, like Starcraft stood the test the time, by coming out with different expansion packs that offer new twists to the game to keep people coming back for more.

#5. Tombraider - Ok dont frag me just yet let me explain. I know some of you are up in arms about this pick but, admittedly, it is my favorite and got more than my moneys worth from playing hours upon hours but this was also one of those un-tried influential games that succeeded, even when project managers, license groups and other pessimists afraid of trying anything unoriginal/untried said that a female swinging around, shooting animals and bad guys and exploring deep jungles and caverns would never sell. It was even said that women would protest and people just werent up for this type of game. They were wrong on all counts. In fact i think women became a large portion of buyers of the tombraider series. I will admit however that the last few releases of Tombraider have been abysmal but Tombraider 7 has gave me high hopes for the series continuing under Crystal Dynamics holding the reigns. If they would make the next one longer and less idiot proof they will attract some of the hard core raiders.

see above post -- cleaner this time...

[Cutting_Crew]

OOPS--see my post above -- forgot to do some breaks :P
These are the games that are not only my favorite but have withstood the test of time:

#1. Pac-Man - Yes the yellow, 3/4th's of a pie little critter, running from ghosts and speeding through tunnels is simple, almost anyone can play it(how well is relative, i myself am the pac-man king) and it is recognized by all ages, gender and demographic imaginable and overall a great influentual program as well. I was amazed that not only Pac-Man didnt make their top 5 but NOT ONE of them even had it up for consideration. This is a red flag right here as to their possible bias.

#2. Starcraft - someone already mentioned this.. replayability, popularity and the ever popular urge to hop into space and kick but on Blizzard.net has made this one of the best RTS game available. Sure it doesnt have 3-D graphics but its still fun. Jot down a note for all the omg!!11 3D developers out there wanting to make everything look purrrty instead of paying attention to gameplay and fun-ness. I cant believe that i can walk into Best Buy, EB Games or China-mart and its still sitting there on the shelves.

#3. Age of Empires - SEE #2 above, lots of replayability, shifted from the 2D to 3-D graphics with the later releases but still has the attention to detail that hard core players demand and not just pretty graphics pasted onto the screen.

#4. Sims Series - Jot down another note all your "lets make the best graphics guru's". Females want to play computer games so give them what they want. Admittedly i didnt play this very much and some men do play it but this does tend to attract the right-brained people(most girls) with little or no desire to see blood spattering everywhere and people getting killed. It still requires thought, attention to detail and encourages socialization on and off the web as you can play online with people you know or dont know. This has also, like Starcraft stood the test the time, by coming out with different expansion packs that offer new twists to the game to keep people coming back for more.

#5. Tombraider - Ok dont frag me just yet let me explain. I know some of you are up in arms about this pick but, admittedly, it is my favorite and got more than my moneys worth from playing hours upon hours but this was also one of those un-tried influential games that succeeded, even when project managers, license groups and other pessimists afraid of trying anything unoriginal/untried said that a female swinging around, shooting animals and bad guys and exploring deep jungles and caverns would never sell. It was even said that women would protest and people just werent up for this type of game. They were wrong on all counts. In fact i think women became a large portion of buyers of the tombraider series. I will admit however that the last few releases of Tombraider have been abysmal but Tombraider 7 has gave me high hopes for the series continuing under Crystal Dynamics holding the reigns. If they would make the next one longer and less idiot proof they will attract some of the hard core raiders.

Elite TNK

[KatchooNJ]

There is also Elite: The New Kind floating around on the Internet that is a version of the classic Elite that runs perfectly on a WinXP computer. I think the project was squashed by one of the creators, but if you poke around, you can find it. :-) It is basically Elite Plus, from what I can tell. Great version of the classic!

top games of all time

[Anonymous Coward]

Vagrant Story
Resident Evil 4
Eternal Darkness
Final Fantasy Tactics
The Adventure of Link

Transmolecular Dot

[KatchooNJ]

I actually have this silly bit of trivia in my head... I can swear I remember that the dot from Adventure was actually called the Transmolecular Dot. lol Don't ask me how I remember that or know that, but it sticks in my head hard, so I think it might be truth. Anyone else know? :-)

Looking Glass?

[Sabathius]

Ok, Any all-time-best games list that does not include Thief or System Shock is just plain wrong.

Re:Looking Glass?

[KatchooNJ]

Specifically... Thief Gold. That game was truly gold.

My Top 5

[vorpal22]

1. M.U.L.E.

I have no idea how many countless hours I spent playing this game. I still keep a C64 emulator around to waste more time than I want to admit on it when I'm bored / looking for reasons to procrastinate. This is an example of brilliant gameplay: the graphics are appallingly bad, but one is still drawn to the game because of the challenge and the fun of it all. My mother used to criticize me for playing it when I was a kid, and now she still can't believe that I play it all these years later.

2. Ultima VII: The Black Gate

This was, IMO, quite possibly the best RPG of all time. The world was so incredibly detailed and addressed problems that were relevant to today, including pollution, overpopulation, cult-like philosophical movements, racism, etc. The plot was open ended enough to encourage exploration and detailed enough to take a huge amount of time to solve the main quest. It drew one in with its elements of mystery through the gruesome murders, thefts, etc. that were transpiring in Brittania.

3. Monkey Island II: LeChuck's Revenge

I laughed my ass off, and the game was *damn* fun. The music was so catchy I still find myself humming it years and years later. How I miss puzzle games.

4. Super Mario World

My favourite of the series. Lots of improvements - particularly in graphics and gameplay - over SMB3, and enough secrets in the game to make one replay some of the worlds over and over again.

5. Heroes of Might and Magic III

This was definitely the pinnacle of the HOMM games, and between the expansion packs and user-created levels, one of the most addictive games I've ever played.

A Text Adventure?!! *Faints*

[KatchooNJ]

Wow! That is the first text adventure (aka Interactive Fiction) game I have seen anyone mention on this list. This, along with classics like Zork, Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy and A Mind Forever Voyaging are sadly overlooked by many gamers that can't enjoy a game that is only text input and output. Try it, you might like it! ;-)

How long until ...

[Anonymous Coward]

we get a list of "the 10 video games you must play before you die" following the horrible trend in travel books these days.

Jeez

Re:Oh yeah! Spectrum Chaos! Yeah*2!

[spoco2]

Great version indeed... tiny... but great! :D

my top I can't stop at five

[Unicorn Giggles]

In no particular order

System Shock II
Tribes
Heroes Quest for Glory: So you want to be a hero
Ultima 7 Serpent Isle
Morrowind

Monkey island 2 quake 3, half life 1 & 2, the original prince of persia, mario, Scorched earth (Damn that ones old) Defenders of the Crown (commodore 64), warcraft 2, and commander keen... and of course mario space invaders pac man and the like also end up at the top somewhere,

Why get young boys to do the mens' job...

[macraig]

... namely reviewing games? It requires perspective and broad exposure to do it properly and well. While that doesn't always require decades of living to achieve, most of the time it does, and certainly in this case. Why not a single nod to Master of Orion? What about the board games that spawned so many great computer and console games... Stellar Conquest, Star Fleet Battles, Squad Leader, PanzerBlitz, and many others?

Letting tunnel-vision "punks" who've only played FPS amd (MMO)RP games pick the top games of all time is like letting a ten-year-old pick the greatest President of his lifetime.

Re:Star Control II, Half-Life, X-Com UFO, Evil Gen

[CBWest76]

This makes no sense to me--Dune II and Starcraft are different games. One draws a lot of ideas from the other, but they're not the same game.

Star Control II is _literally_ a remake of Starflight. They got the orignal Starflight programmers and designer back and updated the graphics/sound and added arcade sequences. They left the ship upgrades, overall game mechanics, planetary exploration, and navigation the same, but changed the names of the alien races and redid the maps.

What about it doesn't make sense? Starflight and Star Control II are different games. One draws a lot of ideas from the other but they're not the same game.

Your assertion that Star Control II is basically a remake of Starflight with updated graphics, plus new races and maps, is a load of crap. I have played and finished both games, so I do know what I'm talking about in gameplay terms. As far as the development team goes, one of Starflight's original designers and programmers was involved in Star Control II (Greg Johnson) - he was credited with "Special Thanks", "Additional Dialogue", and "Art and Animation", and it would hardly be unusual for someone to have been involved in the development of 2 similar games. One of SC2's lead designers, Paul Reiche III, was credited for "Special Thanks" on Starflight,as well. That is the extent of the crossover between the 2 development teams. Fred Ford, the only person given programming credits on SC2, was not involved with Starflight at all. Your post seems to overstate the connection between the two and draw a faulty conclusion based on that connection.

If you can point me in the direction of any quotes from Fred Ford, Paul Reiche III, or Greg Johnson that back up your claim, please feel free.

Re:UT Quake

[Scudsucker]

It's all subjective, but I'm definitely right when I say that Quake 3 perfected the original FPS formula.

The weapons were balanced well against eachother, but not against the players health. It was difficult to get a one-shot one kill, moreso with the bonus starting health. Your run speed was glacial, as was the speed of the rocket launcher.

Contrast that to UT, which had far more weapons, almost all of which could be used for one-shot-one-kills, and along with faster run speed make for much faster gameplay - the whole point of deathmatch.

Q3: better engine.
UT: far better balance and weapons.

Thief!

[KatchooNJ]

Ah! Someone mentioned Thief! That is easily one of the best games I ever played. A true classic that too often is overlooked, IMHO.

Pirates!

[KatchooNJ]

OMG! How could I have forgotten Pirates!? That is easily one of the best games I have ever played. I'm shocked it didn't make it on the list and didn't even get mentioned on the board until now!

The new incarnation of Pirates that came out in 2004 (Pirates: Live The Life) is pretty damned good, I should mention. Scoop it up! It holds the original flavor with a few new bells and whistles. :-) Sid Meier is my god! lol ;-)

Impossible

[Gyorg_Lavode]

It is truely impossible to make a list of the 5 best games because there are simply a load of games that fall into the "fundamentally better than all other games" area. Games like: star craft, super mario brothers 3, super mario world, the legend of zelda, ocarina of time, doom, quake, everquest, pong, etc, etc, etc. Games that both fundamentally redefined how games are played as well as show a staying power comparable to classic board games in a video game market which is notoriously finicky.

I think the best you can do is define a list of the games you most enjoy playing. The games that, for you, offer the best over all experience. For me, the number one is always: Metroid Prime. I think it defines perfection for the series, the genre, and a video game in general

Re:Star Control II, Half-Life, X-Com UFO, Evil Gen

[pthisis]

What about it doesn't make sense? Starflight and Star Control II are different games. One draws a lot of ideas from the other but they're not the same game.

Your assertion that Star Control II is basically a remake of Starflight with updated graphics, plus new races and maps, is a load of crap. I have played and finished both games, so I do know what I'm talking about in gameplay terms

I don't really know how to respond to this, other than that you must be either misremembering or you're just being polemical. This isn't some controversial theory, it was widely known and acknowledged at the time and the web is littered with reviews like http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/star-control -ii/reviews/reviewerId,67734/

Compare, say, the ship data screens. Or the starmap navigation. Or the outer planetary system navigation screen, or the inner system navigation screen. Or the planetary exploration (which is simplified in SC2 but similar, it's clearly the most different of the bunch). Or the spaceport screen.

Indeed, for just about every interface screen in starflight, you can go look at the _same_ screen in SC2--which you can do because the latter's a remake of the former. And when you do, it looks like a graphically updated version of the same thing, because it is.

I don't know of any quotes from any of the developers at all, let alone related to this, but I'd be pretty shocked if they didn't say freely that it's a remake. I'd also be surprised if anyone had bothered to ask something so obvious (you don't see interviewers asking "So, is this new 'Doom II' game at all related to 'Doom'?).

Alpha Centauri was a rip-off

[macraig]

Alpha Centauri was a blatant ripoff of Mark Baldwin's Empire games. Sid Meier knew it, and allowed his name to be stamped on the game anyway (I doubt he had much hands-on involvement with design). What does that tell you about Meier? Sure, I know all about incremental evolution, but Alpha Centauri wasn't much of an evolution... they took Empire, prettied the graphics and added a tech tree, and called it a revolutionary game? I don't think so.

Re:Online Scrabble & Chess & the game of s

[Daikiki]

5) Karma whoring other posts (eg mod parent up please!)

That's really Karma pimping, isn't it?

Re:Star Control II, Half-Life, X-Com UFO, Evil Gen

[Spikeles]

Stars! yes.. that was awesome.. i was playing that about the same time i was playing Mordor

Re:Star Control II, Half-Life, X-Com UFO, Evil Gen

[Spikeles]

You seem to be focusing only on the gameplay mechanics and gfx. The gameplay and gfx we similar for Half-Life as for Quake 2 but the difference was the way the story was implemented. I really enjoyed the story in Star Control 2, in my exmple i enjoy Half-Life much more because it's story was more interesting and engaging than Q2