Slashdot Mirror
Indian State Encourages Microsoft Removal
cultrhetor writes "The New York Times reports that the communist government in the Indian state of Kerala is trying to remove Microsoft from its public institutions, as part of a campaign against monopolistic corporations. From the article: 'schools and public offices across the state are being encouraged to install free software systems instead of purchasing Microsoft's Windows programs. "It is well-known that Microsoft wants to have a monopoly in the field of computer technology. Naturally, being a democratic and progressive government, we want to encourage the spread of free software," M. A. Baby, the state's education minister, said by telephone.' The government is not banning Microsoft, but it is actively encouraging all 12,500 public schools in the state to install Linux."
Linky.
Revenge is sweet but we should be careful as to not let any one linux company become the next microsoft.
"Remember, when downloading free software, you're downloading communism."
Antti S. Brax - Old school - http://www.iki.fi/asb/
Except that they're not actually banning the use of Microsoft software, just encouraging public institutions not to use it. That's not anything like forcing private citizens to use one or other bit of software.
Freedom is not increased by mere diminuation of government. Anarchy is freedom for the strong and slavery for the weak.
or not ...
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/26/ 1732257
Hostes alienigieni me abduxerunt. Qui annus est?
I installed Debian Etch a couple weeks back and was impressed with the progress it has made in installability. Good luck to Keralans with their Linux adventure!
And Capitalist states never tell their citizens what products they can and can't use? When was the last time you saw MJ being legitimately sold?
My 3D Texturing Skinning work (under construction)
I want M.A. Baby back, Baby back, Baby back, I want M.A. Baby back, Baby back, Baby back...
Doesn't every company want a monopoly?
This was posted last week here: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/26/ 1732257
Any fool can criticise, condemn, and complain, and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
Kerala is ruled by an ELECTED communist government within an overall governmental framework that is not communist. Private enterprise is alive and well in Kerala. Kerala also has the highest literacy rate in India (95%) and a lot of technically skilled people.
Even non-communist states set policies for the software they buy. They're not stopping businesses from doing so.
like the recent ridiculous coke and pepsi ban.
You're kidding - coke & pepsi were found (by a private lab) to have contained a pesticide called malathion.
Is it really communism to want pesticides out of foods?
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Oppression is bad only if you dislike what it stands for, I guess. I fail to see how asking people to use free software does anything negative. Except cost M$ some money. Look on the bright side, most of them were probably pirated copies.... less piracy by few users!
Great Intellect...
The US is a fascist state - they like to tell people what they can and cannot do. That's nothing to be proud of.
Jordan or Jackson?
I just hope they suggest a particular Linux distro and version to their schools, or they will end up with a dozen variants of Linux all needing different versions of downloaded apps, different config tools, and what not.
I will stop short at suggesting which distro they should choose (and might just avoid being modded troll).
No, it's not a "communist state". It's a state in India (with the same constitution and political system as the rest) whose democratically elected coalition government is led by a party called the "Communist Party of India (Marxist)". Look it up (say here) if you like.
The ban on Coca-Cola and Pepsi came after an NGO reported dangerously high levels of pesticide in them, although it is possible that there were other reasons.
Damn commies! damn slashdot for taking this long to give us some really commies to complain about!
Actually I guess this is gonig to be fun watching people's head spin.. open source good, microsoft bad, but hang on, is communist open source good or bad? Actually Kerala is governed through a parliamentary system of representative democracy, they chose their current political leaders, no totalitarian dictators here. They just prefer communist representatives... Sounds like it's not all a bed of roses but it's in pretty good shape for an Indian state by the accounts I've come across (and a damn nice place to visit as a tourist according to several of my friends).
like the recent ridiculous coke and pepsi ban
It's so much better when a nation has the right to be sick and obese.
Rights are important. But when you get a heart attack at 35, priorities quickly change.
Isn't a communist country/nation calling someone out for trying to be a monopoly kinda...hypocritical?
In communist Kerala... Linux installs you
sorry, had to be done
...in being the only force defending the free market against monopolisation. Just like in Europe, with the software patents.
Trust me, I work for the government.
If he's successful, Microsoft will be singin' the blues: "Since M.A. Baby left me..."
You and about 10 other people missed the point of my post. I don't care if they are elected, that has nothing to do with anything.
Explain why they *banned* coke and pepsi... Most of the other indian states simply stopped serving it in their schools. Kerala banned it. They are anti-western business. They are communists.
Why is it that if it's a communist state doing something it's bad and when it's not it's good. It's seems that the wording in the description highlights that it's a communist state that removes it, and not a democratic one. When the real point is that and Indian state is trying to remove it...
Actually, Coke and Pepsi showed that research to be flawed, and as I understand it linked it to the water. Kerala banned it because they are anti-corporation - especially from the West. Behavior like that is only keeping foreign investment out of India.
It is communist to be anti-corporation, especially the way Kerala has done it.
You're kidding - coke & pepsi were found (by a private lab) to have contained a pesticide called malathion.
For them both to have this pesticide seems a strange coincidence.
I'd assume that the tests are correct, and that Coke and Pepsi don't share the same bottling plants. This means that the pesticide is probably present in the drinking water of the area due to contamination.
I know that DMCA-bashing and, lately, US-bashing are popular ways to get modded up, but this post is rather pathetic.
If "they like to tell people what they can and cannot do" is your definition of a fascist state, I can not think of any state that is not fascist. Developing rules by which the residents of a country all agree to live is one of the fundamental purposes of government.
It's true that usually so-called "Communist" governments are actually single-party dictatorships, but as strange as it sounds, the communist government of Kerala was actually democratically elected* and it can be removed at the next elections. Kerala is not USSR or North Korea.
India is not a perfect democracy, but it wouldn't tolerate any of its states becoming an outright single-party dictatorship.
(* It must be noted that this piece of knowledge comes from Wikipedia, so you don't have to trust it.)
Great Intellect...
> Explain why they *banned* coke and pepsi...
Because it is bad for you ?
And you've missed the point. It isn't just that they are elected, it is also that the overall framework is not communist, so even a government dominated by communists cannot impose a truly communist state. Private property and private enterprise exist in Kerala, which they would not in a communist system, and the state government does not control the economy the way it would in a communist system.
Even if the reason for the ban on Coke and Pepsi is hostility to large, multinational corporations, that doesn't make Kerala communist. There are lots of Greens, for example, who are certainly not communist, who are hostile to such corporations. There are also other possible reasons for the ban. One is that if they think that the levels of toxic chemicals in Coke and Pepsi products are too high, it makes sense to ban sales entirely, not just in schools. Even if adults aren't at risk (and they may think they are), kids drink soft drinks outside of school.
A. That makes it a communist state. It is a state, run by communists. Are we really going to argue over the wording of all this? Even the article summary calls them communist.
B. Coke and Pepsi have shown the original pesticide study to be flawed (this is not surprising, because it was run by an interest group that has repeatedly shown itself to have an anti-west slant). Indians have a tendency to be VERY anti-west (I know this I am Indian), and my main point was this anti-microsoft action is an example of that. Kerala is especially bad at this, and this can directly be linked to the communist thing. It is sad, it is keeping foreign investment out of India. China, a communist country, has been more west-friendly than the world largest "democracy."
I am tired of the moderation system on slashdot. My original post had some valid points, but I am a "troll" because I dared disagree with an anti-microsoft action. I was then inundated with 10 less-than-insightful comments that all said the same basic thing, either missed my point or the point in general, and then half those posts were modded up... Whatever.
Kerala is ruled by an ELECTED communist government within an overall governmental framework that is not communist.
Why call it communism when it is clearly social-democracy?
http://www.club977.com/ - The 80's Channel!
Your source for commercial free 80's music!
So what? Who cares? If they're real communists then that's probably good (but hopelessly idealistic, like real capitalists). If they're just Stalinists then that's bad. But banning a couple of products because of a health scare doesn't seem particularly tyrannical to me.
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Uh, because they contain harmful and dangerous pesticides?
Now explain why the democratic, free-market US not only bans marijuana (which has never been shown to be harmful or addictive), but even bans forms of hemp that do not contain the hallucinogenic substance (THC) in marijuana.
"Kerala is a communist state - they like to tell their citizens what products they can and cannot use"
/. form I have not read TFA, but from the summary it sounds like they are doing what many of us would like to see ANY government do. Also from the summary they have not banned anything, so what is the problem besides the words "communist state"?
/. does not judge this idea soley on the politics of it's implementer. I don't see why any taxpayer should automatically hand over millions for MS licenses when the alternative is both transparent and "free".
Are you suggesting the drug war is over and the bong heads won, or did you forget about prohibition?
In true
I hope the rest of
Disclaimer: I'm not a "Linux fan boy", nor am I a communist, I have been paid to develop "stuff" in windows for 15+yrs and think MSVC is the best C/C++ development platform bar none.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
But what about the CAD tools for electronics(etc) if the dump M$ out? Are there any comprehensive and easy to use tools in Linux ?
Coke and Pepsi in the US and WEST won't contain the pesticides. The issue was the use of pesticide contaminated water in the LOCAL manufacturing plants... hence the ban. Rich
Of course, everybody ignores the fact that these communist were busy running MS. IOW, they are no different than anybody else, except now, they appear to want to run a balanced budget and look to the future. I wish that some of the west's politicians would start considering budgets and futures.
I was trying to word the post along the lines of the top-level post to point out how ridiculous it is to say "Kerala is a communist state - they like to tell their citizens what products they can and cannot use".
No, the reason you are being modded down is probably that you don't know what a communist state is. What the rest of us mean is a state that operates under a communist political and economic system. That means state ownership of all property, state control of the economy, and dictatorship of the proletariat. That is very different from the situation in Kerala where at both the state and national level the overal economic and political system is non-communist. The fact that Kerala is controlled by a coalition whose leading party is the Communist Party does not give Kerala a communist economy or political system.
If you want to complain about the policies of the Communist-led government Kerala, feel free, but don't confuse the system in Kerala with communism, and don't complain when the rest of us are not impressed with your confusion.
What gives MS the right to maintain market share and consequently leech money out of india.
It makes absoloutely no sense for the indian government to use software sold by a foreign corporation when a local company can provide and support an open source based solution. Any profit that local company makes, will ultimately be taxed by the government, as will their staff, so a chunk of the money the government spends comes right back to them. Plus it helps keep jobs locally, and any improvements they make can also be used by other government departments without additional cost to them.
It makes absoloutely no sense for the indian government to keep giving huge amounts of money to a foreign corporation, when there's a local alternative. Infact, not using the local alternative is pretty irresponsible and harmfull to the local economy.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
It matters a lot. It matters because of the reasons why they banned it. It matters because the outside world sees the way they treat foreign investment, and treats them accordingly. It matters to me because as an Indian I don't see my country becoming more wealthy because of the anti-west ideals emanating it.
And banning microsoft was not a health scare. In fact, I don't think banning Coke was either (that is debatable).
Coke and Pepsi were banned because the an NGO showed that it had unacceptable level of pesticides in it.
This has been disputed by Coke and Pepsi.
There is also another ongoing fight in Kerala against a Coke bottling plant which was accused of contaminating the ground water.
The ruling party is leftist, and contains some anti-Globalisation and anti-MNC "intellectuals", but the ban was certainly due to pesticide levels.
Because they're filhy communists who hate business and don't think pesticides belong in drinks.
Information doesn't want to be anthropomorphized anymore.
So many things wrong wiht your post (and I'm pretty sure your reasons have nothing to do with why I was modded down).
People call China communist, but under your definition it is not. People call the US a democracy but it is not. Communism does not have to be under a dictatorship. Please don't tell me you were a polisci major.
"The fact that Kerala is controlled by a coalition whose leading party is the Communist Party does not give Kerala a communist economy or political system."
I called them communist because they are run by the communist party. That is all. Even the article summary called them communist. It is pretty accepted to call Kerala communist.
and the earlier party to rule was Congress, a non commie one. They just did not implement it... "The Left Democratic Front government targets implementing an earlier government order that was issued during the previous United Democratic Front regime. The decision was taken in 2004 to push open source systems, but this was not actively followed. Initially, schools were given the option to choose whether teachers were to be trained in Linux systems or Microsoft. The option has now narrowed down to migration." Quoted from the article.. http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php? content_id=138464
"Are you suggesting the drug war is over and the bong heads won, or did you forget about prohibition? "
I am not a defender of the USA, so this argument is irrelvant.
"but from the summary it sounds like they are doing what many of us would like to see ANY government do. Also from the summary they have not banned anything, so what is the problem besides the words "communist state"?
Perhaps, but my main argument was against their reasons not their actions (which I also think are somewhat questionable). Recently, they did ban coke and pepsi. As in entirely banned, not just from the government. They did this largely becuase of their communist, anti-corporation ideals. These are the wrong reasons to do anything.
"I don't see why any taxpayer should automatically hand over millions for MS licenses when the alternative is both transparent and "free". "
Agreed. I don't think anything is automatic, and as a skilled developer, I am sure you know decisions like this are not trivial. I think this one was made somewhat trivially.
Yes, this is a dupe. Still, there was a bit of new and interesting information:
In a written statement, Microsoft's public sector head in India, Rohit Kumar, said the company had tried to keep its prices low to make them accessible to schools, selling one version of Windows for between $25 and $30 per computer.
This would be the 'crippled' version, I presume. Still, it does show how afraid Microsoft are of Linux adoption. Of course, they could do a great job of defending their monopoly by just giving away a 'crippled' version of windows for free (as in beer). I predict that they will eventually do this; in fact, they already are, in a sense: allowing people to run known pirated copies of Windows - which is exactly what WGA does - is to, in effect, give Windows away for free.
Yes, it's very important to make sure that we throw in the word "communist" because that puts the whole article in perspective. Just saying "the Indian state of Kerala" would have horribly skewered the story.
Pretty blatant attempt at negative association. It's so fucking obvious, it's embarrasing.
This must just a giant communist trap made by the NSA to find and locate all those damn pinko's. Makes sense. I bet they got a back door coded in the software to phone home about what you do with it. Damn you opensource. Now if only we could get the code to make sure it does what it says. But that will never happen.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Go baby go.
Yes, people should have the right to make wrong choices.
From TFA, "The news will further unsettle foreign investors in this state."
. php?content_id=138497
Interpretation, spin!
Here is a more balanced and fact-based treatment : http://www.financialexpress.com/latest_full_story
The New York times seems to be trying to stir up "Fear, Anxiety and doubt". The government is not "Communist" but democratic socialist, like the UK's ruling party and much of the EU, Latin America and many other places.
In Kerala, they are replacing one western Operating System (illegal copies of Windows), with another western operating system (legal licences of Linux). After Microsoft went there and demanded lots of money for no source code and no local language support from their dialect, and Richard Stallman went there and offered full source code and a free system that had already been translated into their local dialect.
Why this should panic investors? Cola is after all very bad for you, why should Indians have to become clones of us fat, sugar-high westerners?
Kerala has done very well without help from the western elites and will carry on doing so. FUD or no FUD.
My little Linux and tech blog
The real piece of news is that it's a "communist state" that did it. Therefore it belongs in the "politics" section AND it's way better for good flamefests and revenue-generating ads ! Currently it's night in the U.S. (where people have been taught to loathe communism since the cold war), but wait for America waking up and you will see ;)
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
Lets encourage all schools to not teach with Microsoft products... THat way, when you graduate - you won't be prepared for the workforce, where most companies do use microsoft. They are selling their kids futures for a politically motivated stunt! (all they really want is 5 minutes of slashdot fame)
Jesus Saves
Yes, people should have the right to make wrong choices.
What if they are lured and enticed to make those wrong choices?
It's one thing for coke to be sold and it has in big letters "don't drink a bottle of this every day or kiss your health goodbye" like is done (more or less) with cigarrettes.
It's another if you're constantly flooded with ads that represent pepsi as the equivalent "of being cool".
Plus I somehow doubt your own country allows you to make the wrong choice of snorting heroin.
I just seen to many windows kids loose it completly when they are put to work with a non-windows computer. Or even DOS. Or an older windows version. Or indeed any computer that is not a 100% copy of their home system.
Wich would you consider the best tech class. One that has a dozen different model and brands of say welders or a class that has just a dozen of 1 model by 1 supplier. I know wich class will produce the better welder.
I actually had a guy complain that our forklift's work differently then the one he was trained on and he couldn't work with it. The problem was that the button to choose direction was on the joystick NOT a handle underneath the steering wheel. Our small one has two seperate pedals for doing back and forth. Wich you need to know because if you don;t and you think you are slamming on the brake you can be in for a suprise. Not as much as the person walking behind the forklift but still.
I seen to many kids come into the workforce trained on standarized equipment and me having to spent then a lot of time retraining them to get used to workplaces were not only is the equipment different but often where every single piece of equipment is off a different model. I for one have rarely seen a company with more then 1 forklift of the same model.
Teach kids how to deal with computers, not how to work with OS X (no not the apple one) version Y, configuration Z. The latter group will have great scores but fail in the workplace.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Yes. Kerala particularly (and sadly) has a problem with over-education of the population compared to the number of skilled jobs. Their education system is exceptional, but often people can't find relevant employment afterwards.
I met a fisherman on the Keralan coastline, fishing with the villagers using a technique 1000s of years old. He had a degree and masters in informatics, could develop in Java and others, and spoke four languages. OSS is an amazing solution here. The government can soak up some of the highly skilled people and kick start an industry, rather than just hand all their cash overseas. In the western world, time is expensive, so it is often preferable to buy in software rather than put in development effort. In india, the dividing line is moved much further across. Skilled labour is comparatively much cheaper, so a wider range of tasks are suitable to be done in house.
Private enterprise is alive and well in Kerala. Kerala also has the highest literacy rate in India (95%) and a lot of technically skilled people.
Oh, that's it buddy!
We'll be jumping in our Stealths and "freeing" every single citizen of Kerala starting tommorow!
And remembers kids: literacy is good, but in moderation.
Because calling themselves 'communist' generates more publicity? Just look at the number of extra posts under this topic that are due to the word 'communist' being in the description. :)
which has never been shown to be harmful or addictive
On the contrary, there have been a good many studies that have shown just that; the problem is that there have also been a lot of studies that have shown the opposite. About the best you can say is that the jury is still out on the matter.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
If you understand the general principles, how difficult is it to pick up MS, or Apple products? I haven't used MS Office for decades but I could sit down and be productive with it in about 30 seconds flat. The same is true of an MS Office user sitting down in front of OpenOffice or AbiWord. Most software which performs a similar task actually tends to use similar concepts, look and work in a similar manner.
Deleted
And exactly why is being a communist bad?
It is just another idea that tries to create a perfect world.
Aside from that it is not a good idea to ban any product. This will just lead faster to more idiots.
About being anti-western, in my point of view being anti-western is actually a good thing although I do live in a western country, but when I look at what the western world does to the non-western countries it seems to me we are way off track by trying to
a) tell other people what's good and what's not good (tell as in force them to...)
b) not trying to understand that there are other cultures that simply don't work in the same way
You are not free to read this message, by doing so, you have violated my licence and are required to urinate publicly. T
the communist government in the Indian state of Kerala
In fact, this decision has nothing to do with the specific government being communist or not, and I welcome this decision, although I have nothing to do with India whatsoever. But, as wonderful western objective journalism rules expect, how nice it is to insert that word in there so as to inflate a latent (or not) hostility right in the beginning towards whatever might come in the following text. Instead of just saying Kerala's state government decided to encourage this and that. These days, I've just become really sensitive to slight (or not so slight) political overtones.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
I don't like colas, but I respect the right of others to drink. It's Your health and You can do whatever you want with it. Actually I detect racist overtones here "dirty savages can't make the choice themeselves", while if say Utah was to institute such a ban, everyone would be expressing outrage over that someone is going around deciding what's good for us.
BTW ironically the Soviets always rabidly hated coca cola
Why is it that if it's a communist state doing something it's bad and when it's not it's good.
Kerala has also banned Coke & Pepsi.
And they didn't ban other Indian drinks which had the same problems.
The irony, in that particular case, was that the market was already sorting it out: per capita consumption of soft-drinks in India have been among the lowest in the world.
Now, it's a fair question to ask how all that near-ubiquitous cricket advertising (which, as many will tell you, is the real growth industry in India) will change, now that Pepsi and Coke are being hounded out, but something tells me that BCCI officials aren't about to lose their sleep over this.
More than mere navel gazing.
I'd rather be killed by a nice boy like you, than an islamo-fascist any day.
And remember, freedom is good, unless you exercise it.
I'm a software visionary. I don't code.
Well I guess there is nothing more to say there, Microsoft is officially seen by India as Satan's hell spawn. When God's Own Country chooses the people follow!
http://www.gods-own-country.info/
About the best you can say is that the jury is still out on the matter.
Perhaps, but in that case why the fuck is non-thc-rich HEMP illegal? It doesn't have any health issues.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
I'd rather be killed by a nice boy like you, than an islamo-fascist any day.
That's how we differ. I'd rather not be killed at all.
Thanks. Excellent info and insight. As someone who, in general, favours MS in these arguments, I can see the MS vs FOSS economic balance changing in a place like Keralan, as you've explained so succintly.
I'm a software visionary. I don't code.
Well, they didn't ban Microsoft, and if they did they'd only be making a prudent decision anyway. Microsoft has held back computing in the West for 20 years; why let it hold India back too? Plus, of course, Microsoft embody the anti-capitalist bogyman far better than some communist local government. Capitalism only works when government intervenes to prevent monopolies growing to the point where they can control the market. Once that point is reached capitalism breaks down, which is what all western companies want. The perfect situation for a western company is to have no competition and customers who have to pay whatever you tell them to. Enron in California is the ultimate example of the perfect western company from the point of view of the owners.
Microsoft would dearly like to be in the same situation as Enron was before it got busted; does your desire to sell your country to the West really go so far as to want that?
I think you have a very distorted view of exactly how business in the West works and, more importantly, how western businesses view your country. You are a market to be milked, nothing more. The companies involved will happily collude to screw you and your countrymen to the wall. If it means a few Bhopals or the total loss of control of the power generation system, or the sale of all your fresh water to factories resulting in famine in rual areas, then they care not a jot.
I know this because I live in the west and they have done these things here. Now most of them are illegal, so they are off to suck you dry before you get wise. A few million dollars in bribes to officials can save them billions off their bottom line, so they will do it. Once they own the government, you'll be praying for communists or anyone else to do something about it. Come to Britain and see what it's like to have a government totally controlled by big business. Fraud and corruption are rife while education, health, housing, and employment are collapsing around us and the electorate can do nothing about it because of the gerrymandering that keeps a party with a third of the vote in absolute power with a vast majority in parliament.
Or go to America, where the entire cabinet is made up of unelected oil company directors. Literally tens of thousands of people have died, and more die every day, because these represetatives of western business that you are so worried about upsetting are pursuing their business agendas using tanks and missiles. They are also supporting Pakistan's development of WMD which may one day be used on you. They are doing these things not because they hate you but because it makes them money. Lots of money. Nothing else matters.
As for you, to them you are just cheap labour. By undermining the employment market in their home countries, western businesses can use you to increase the gap in wages between the people who produce their products and the massive salaries they award themselves. As long as you depend on the West to build your economy instead of using your own resources you will never be anything more than a well-dressed slave.
India has natural resources, plenty of people, and a tradition of education and technical skill that a country like America can only dream of. What the hell do you need us for? Get yourself some self-respect and make your own software, your own computers, your own soft drinks; your own future.
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
According to a man I saw kill a store clerk in a robbery yesterday, he didn't in fact kill a store clerk or rob said store yesterday.
Hey, good enough for me!
Indeed.
What's the difference between being told to do something as government policy as opposed to having consent engineered by the liberal media? At least elected officials make the calls instead of someone like Murdoch telling us what we think because he has more money.
Anyone against Microsoft must be a communist.
You know suv4x4, you raise a valid point. Everytime there's a country/region that's doing better than the United States, they either A) get the shit bombed out of them B) get a sudden government change or C) get angry letters mailed to them For Cuba the US tried B but it failed. So they just do C now. For North Korea US does C For Iraq US did A and B For Vietnam US just did A and C.
You sound like someone with a communist chip on their shoulder.
Simply understand this idiot. It is not a communist state. It has a Marxist party at the head of an elected body of representatives, in much the same way as the government of the UK has (in principle) an elected left-wing party at the helm of government. This is very different from the 'communist bogeyman' you seem to believe in.
Secondly - you listening now? - Stallman offers them an open source solution, customisable to their needs, that comes 'out of the box' with native language support etc, and its effectively free. Microsoft offer then jack-s for a high price, and they wont be able to use all those awesome IT grads they produce (i work with some, they get western jobs because they are the dogs nuts at what they do and are prepared to work 12 hours a day for 7 hours pay) to customise it as they require. What would you choose as a developing nation? Also note, they have not banned Microsoft products, and they are not forcing people to go open source, the government has merely suggested that educational facilites, that would be better spending money on more learning tools for the kids, use the superior and less expensive solution that open source will provide.
Thirdly - i know all this makes your head hurt but keep going, we'll get there! - Your rational suggests that the goverments of Europe and the USA are communist too. You sit there and say "Gosh darnit maa, why did they ban coke, just cause its poisonous, thats so protective and communist of them...." whilst uncle Sam sits on some of the most restrictive trade tariffs in existance. China and India would export a HELL of a lot more to the West if we didnt legislate to prevent them, whilst banging on about them being resistant to outside investment. If we can tax the hell out of Chinese steel and Indian tech goods, why cant an INDIAN company produce soft-drinks if the INDIAN people want them.
All you mean by "the mean communists hate western trade:(" is "WAAAAAHHHHH, the mean reds have stopped giving us lots of money, shame on them! Thats so undemocratic, not wanting to give your abuser preferentia trade!"
Find all the small flaws, exagerations and typos - go ahead, it doesnt make you any less wrong.
"Now can we please stop arguing this off topic shit? If you don't want to actually discuss something relevant don't bother replying."
Yes, focus on the idea instead of the politics.
However your idiotic troll started the thread and introduced coke, pepsi and political bias. Now you want to back out because you realize you know jack shit about politics, business or culture in Kerala. Fess-up Mr.Rumsfeld, you saw the word "communist" and freaked out.
"I am arguing that [a communistic attitude toward big business] is the ONLY reason why they are doing what they are doing."
First of all they claim the famous "MS monoply" as the reason, second: I will bet my left testicle that there is more than one non-communist-white-male-middle-aged-middle-class slashdotter who sees MS's monopoly as a prime reason for governments to avoid it.
OTOH: I'm sure there are some politicians in the Kerala government that look for, or invent, reasons to demonise western style business, politics and culture. The political strategy behind this is simple scapegoating and is universal in human behaviour. Hypocricy is also a universal behaviour, eg: when zenophobic westeners are horrified to find themselves on the reciving end of zenophobic attitudes from non-westeners.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
How can a country attack the same company that hires their civilians over Americans? Or at least employ individuals that speak a dialect of English that I can understand for their customer support.
Maybe now they'll start hiring someone that customers can understand and not waste 60 minutes just deciphering their code. But what is likely to happen is that they'll start hiring from some other country that horribly rapes the English language.
Videogames made me kill people...I also eat mushrooms to grow bigger.
Are you implying that Cuba, North Korea and Iraq was in some way "doing better than the United States" ? The countries you listed were some of the worst of in the world long before the US took any interrest in them.
John Carmack fan, browsing at +5 since 1999.
...MAKE them come to their own conclusion? I mean, if you assign no money to buy software but FORBID under DRACONIAN measures use of pirated software and MANDATE that they must equip a number of computers, what else really they CAN do but download and install free software? Then they could boast around about their lawfull antipiracy policy instead of beeing accused of beeing anti-business.
communism allies with OSS. Capitalism is pro-MS.
???
LET THE FLAMING BEGIN!
"What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
That's an unfortunate step backwards for that country.
"open source good, microsoft bad, but hang on, is communist open source good or bad?"
Slashdot logic FAQ #73:
Two wrongs cancel each other to make a right.
FAQ #73 History:
First articulated in the new testemant as "an eye for an eye", disputed by Gandhi who was ironically assasinated.
FAQ #73 Proof:
Communist - MS => OSS : therefore : Wrong - Wrong => Right.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Yikes, so not only are we talked an elected communist government, but one actually willing to implement policy set by the previous one?
* Goes and sits in a corner waiting for the universe to fold in on itself.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Microsoft Software on State machines because Microsoft is a monopoly? What do they call the communist party in a Communist Government? MS should fit right in with their "effeciency" of government by brooking no diversion from the party line. Heh, that is interesting.
How fitting, the word in immage happens to be "commune" for me to submit this!
I think he means Jane.
The UK's government is neither socialist nor particularly democratic. After selling out the Labour party, ditching Clause Four and receiving votes from rather less than a quarter of the population, Tony Blair is basically carrying on with Thatcherism ..... except that people let him get away with it, simply because he is not Thatcher.
Did I mention that he also licks G.W.Bush's arse?
The only reason the UK hasn't been booted out of the EU a long time ago is the hope that we might join the Euro. It would then be economically viable for the Euro, rather than the US dollar, to be used as the principal currency for trade in crude oil. However, despite the clear and obvious benefits to the majority of the population {lower prices, no more getting fleeced by bureaux de change when travelling abroad} the Murdoch-owned media {under the influence of the carpetbaggers who stand to lose most from the adoption of the Euro} has managed to hoodwink people into believing that using the same coin as our continental cousins would somehow compromise Britain's "sovereignty" despite not being able to provide an adequate definition of what sovereignty actually means.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
"the Communist government in India's southern state of Kerala "
It is a democrtically elected coalition government in Kerala, led by a Communist party. And communism has no bearing on the discussion.
"The Education Ministry has an annual budget of 40 million rupees, or $1.86 million, to promote computer technology among the one million students"
One US dollar is about 45 Indian rupees or thereabouts. So, 40 million rupees would be less than a million dollars.
"Financial, rather than ideological, reasons may be at the root of the state's decision to promote free software."
Again, not true. People in Kerala have been using computers since the mid '80s actually. The VSSC (Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre) in Trivandrum, the capital of Kerala has lots of Sun graphic workstations supplied by Wipro in the late '80s. Many public sector undertakings, banks and the Railways have been users of Unix based systems for decades now. Many companies in India have realised that it's a total waste of time, money and effort to invest in Microsoft, Oracle and Cisco equipment and their closed-source zero-innovation ideologies for their computing needs.
The Indian branch of the Free Software Foundation is located in Kerala, again because of the high literacy rates, and the forward-thinking, proud and practical people of Kerala. Even if Windows Vista is released free for all the students in Kerala, they would not be inclined to waste their time.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
I've been swashdotted -- Elmer Fudd
I wish that some of the west's politicians would start considering budgets and futures.
They do consider the future. But to them the future stops at the next election.
Excessive forking causes un-wanted children.
They could offer free spelling lessons with each download.
How many beans make five, anyhow ?
Great Intellect...
it seems kerala Govt did not evaluate thier need for software, they just joined anti M$ camp to be in the news. linux is free but not support, they can not ask Redhat/Suse to freely support ultimatly they have to pay. linux is good for developement and can handle good load (if it is used as server). now how kerala govt is going to use linux in schools, it has bloated office suite and average user feel difficult to use. --mad
That's nothing, consider this headline from reuters yesterday, I'm left wondering what Hizbollah really wants:
"Annan urges quick end to Israel, Hizbollah disputes"
- These characters were randomly selected.
Who the hell mods this as flamebait? This whole thread is full of f$cked up moderation.
A communist government, which is a monopoly of it's own right, not giving people a chance to choose based on practices of which itself is guilty. The irony never stops.
I am so shocked that no chair jokes are made yet...
. o O ( TwO hEaDs ArE mOrE tHaN oNe... )
It's so much better when a nation has the right to be sick and obese.
Well, perhaps I've grown a bit out of touch; and I understand that Kerala is relatively well off compared to much of India with only 25% of the populace below the poverty level, relative to what is considered the poverty level in India, but I was unware that an excess of calories in the diet had suddenly become a systemic problem in India.
KFG
Because of propoganda. From a young age we are taught in school that MJ is bad for you, it's illegal, blah blah blahh. The majority of lemmings that don't do their own research believe it.
If history repeats itself, why can't we study the future?
Of course it was linked to the water. They have the responsibility to make sure the ingredinets they're using are safe.
And I could care less if they can't sell their expensive sugar water drinks. They're hardly good for health, most especially of children.
Yea you also mean like you have to use products tht contain technology that recognizes
the broadcast flag?
Got Code?
And if people choose Microsoft, that's their business.
All any government should do is making sure people are free to make their own choices and that no one company is able to limit their choices.
What?
Hear hear.
I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
Communism != totalitarianism.
The 'communist' label has been appropriated by many dictators, as has the 'socialist' label (see: 1930s Europe), and the 'democratic' label (see: post-colonial Africa).
I'm not familiar enough with the area in question to know whether or not the communist party there is truly communist or not, but please don't equate communism with totalitarianism.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
It is one thing to be for cheap/free alternatives, but to be against something strictly because its goal is to control as much market share as possible is quite different. It is everybody's goal to be #1; Microsoft just happens to hold the place due to good timing, marketing, and a long time without viable alternatives. Encouraging free software is certainly a noble thing, but rejecting one specific brand commercial software outright is akin to mudslinging.
I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
It's so much better when a nation has the right to be sick and obese.
So, automatically, drinking soda makes you fat and sick? Get real. The idea of having food stuff made available to people that isn't 100% good for you has been a trend since pre-history. I'd be interested to see if this same state has beat down on other substances that are even more dangerous such as smokes and booze. Or are you going to claim that Coke is just as bad as Camels? I guess in the right ratio they are but under normal circumstances it's simply not true at all.
It's pathetic you even defend this. So now, instead of crying "terrorism" or "what about the children" the new battlecry of governments can be "it makes you sick (if you consume enough of it)"
Istead of just saying Kerala's state government decided to encourage this and that.
Uhhh, maybe that's because being "encouraged" by a democratic based government has an entirely different historical (read:fact based) context than being "encouraged" by a communist one. See: Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Vladimir Lenin, Mao Tse-tung, etc.
Michael Jane, does he play for Orlando?
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Why does it matter if it's a communist state or not. What does that have to do with any other part of the story. What, are we back in the Red Scare again? The communist country of China says X. The communist country of North Korea says Y. The middle-aged white man of Texas says who gives a sh*t whether they're communist or dairy workers. This has nothing to do with the story of getting rid of microsoft. Just leave the word out if it doesn't matter, K?
At $4.50/box x 5 boxes per week, I think smoking the real deal might be a bit cheaper.
;-)
If you're eating five boxes of waffles slathered in molasses a week, then I think smoking the real deal might be a bit healthier!
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
I was under the impression that only growing it was illegal, as it could be used to hide growing of marijuana.
Seems we have a moderator that was born in Kerala!
I'd be willing to bet Ballmer makes a surprise visit to the region and shortly thereafter they announce they've changed their mind about the whole thing.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
But that's not the point. The point is that Indian state governments (and the federal too) have to play the populist politics. And for Communist (elected) governments in Kerala and West Bengal, MNCs are the first target. And banning an MNC is what they always look for first. Being "Elected" has nothing to do with running their own propaganda - be it Kerala or USA. So, lets not confuse the democracy with that.
Having said that, this (non-MS products) may actually be good for the public. Its ironic that the government is taking a decision for reasons completely different, but end result is genuinly in public benefit! Indian state governments normally take bad decisions with result in bad things, but this is definitely an exception.
Chill out, parent. The submitter just likes to add a little spice in his posts, figuratively speaking. To stir, figuratively speaking. Hey, that works well for Digg, right? With half of the posts continaing the word "amazing"^h^h^h^h^h^h^h"AMAZING".
The dogma of modern capitalism is if you want to win you have to cry out loud: "Pick me, choose me!!!!". Yet the most astounding successes of modern days are brought by the products and strategies that disregard this dogma in favor of solid content. Take, well, Google, for example. Its enormous success of the past was accumulated due to their 100% user (vs market) oriented interface.
The best consumer products I have got in the last 10 years in US went out of the market pretty quickly. They were simple, very inexpensive tools that eased my life immensely. They were phased out by monstrous common denominator catering heavily shamelessly marketed trash that will break exactly to the time of the next "improvement". Is that what we want?
There is a good reason to keep a balance between capitalism and socialism in the system. Of course, that balance is not needed and dangerous of course when your goal is to achieve the world dominance in less than 8 years.
I admit, the post is slightly OFF topic, but, heck, so was the "communist" remark in the original post.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Well said!
As already pointed out, the Kerala government is a democracy, with the ruling party being a communist one. Communism is a social ideology, and it is not = to dictatorship or despotism. And it has nothing to do with stalinistic totalitarian governments. In many democracies around the world there are communist parties that participate in the democratic process, are elected and rule in parliaments and local councils. The bias towards the Red Scare of gosh-golly eeevil communist dictatorships is a common american thing. Welcome to the real world, get over it.
shana
"It is well-known that Microsoft wants to have a monopoly in the field of computer technology. Naturally, being a democratic and progressive government, we want to encourage the spread of free software," M. A. Baby
M. A. Baby ????
Am I the only one that who thought the person's name sounded too comical for the story?
I totally agree with you that 'communist' has been appropriated by many dictators. As you note dictators tend to adopt whatever is fashionable and acceptable for the time, including 'democratic'. Probably a lot of nasty small places will use terminology acceptable to the US government in the next few years seeing as the USA is the dominant world power (while still carrying out terrible human rights abuses).
:-)
I think the politicians in Kerala are pretty solid about their communist beliefs, but you need to dig into this to get their exact positions on various issues, politics is like flavours of linux eh, lots of subtlety and the most passionate debates are about aspects of their positions that outsiders really don't care about...
Equally I think we agree being communist doesn't preclude one from being involved in democratic politics, there's a history of communist participation in parliamentary democracies. I was just having a little fun with the slashdot stereotype of right wing readers
Im confused as to how this degenerated into a cola war - TFA's point was about Linux. Or GNU/Linux if you really want. No it probably wont be a problem if different schools/libraries/whatever use different linux distros - theres more than enough common, and you know most of them will go in with gnome or kde so they will look basically the same. The hardware shouldn't be a problem since a lot of it will be pretty old.
/. but I can mail them) and poster rm999 (yes yes I know hes already been modded flamebait but I'm going to chomp)....
Also NYT (yes they are not reading
I'm sick of the communist bogeyman. You can mod me flamebait right now if you like but I'm going to make a point. The CPI are a communist party in that they support communist ideals but yes India is a democracy with universal sufferage even (since 1950 and you might argue it was a lot more universal than African Americans were getting in Alabama at the same time). Whether or not they actually live up to communist ideals is another story. But not a different story than a democracy that lives up to democratic ideals by wiretapping its citizens. Sure theres some pandering to the voters by bashing multi-national companies like Pepsi or Coke. Funny I thought that happens here around election time when someone gets us and announces incentives to American farming companies say. The EU certainly thinks so.
Yes the article was probably being biased by mentioning "communist" in the title but these guys aren't communist in the same way as Stalin's USSR or North Korea or *shudder* the PRC, which is quickly becoming the latest "bloc." I'm not an apologist for any of the human rights violations in those countries but please realize that any time you mention communist it does not imply human rights violations. I'll soon have to be yelling this about Islamic states too. Studying current events instead of getting your information from FOX news and actually reading some history makes it much harder to stereotype systems of government. The worst the current communists can do in Kerala are massive unannounced strikes and rallies. Its great intending to drive somewhere and getting stuck in one - you will be there a while. The noise about Pepsi and Coke will go away soon either after election time (or some money greases someones hands). Lets not point fingers so easily shall we... theres a good chap.
Theres actually a whole bunch of communist parties in the US that are not defunct though we all know in a real democracy we have only two viable parties.
disclaimer: not communist just very liberal
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
I heard on the local news (in China) that large amounts of pesticide or some other poisonous chemical were found in Coke and Pepsi in India and China- maybe that has something to do with this ban?
OSx86 FTW
MJ? Well... he's bad in a different way, I suppose. At least marijuana can't molest children.
OSx86 FTW
"Explain why they *banned* coke and pepsi.."
i terate_Coke__Pepsi_Ban.html
Alleged pesticide residue:
http://www.examiner.com/a-237549~Indian_States_Re
The Indian government, however, said it was OK, though, so I'm SURE there isn't any problem.
And for many of them it will.
Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
Let's put this stright. If company/service/whatever A is big and company/service/whatever B is small, and one thinks this difference to be "unjust", thus asking the government to help, the said "injustice" doesn't go away, because then you end up having company/service/whatever B plus Gov. as the big guy, and the original company/service/whatever A Alone as the small one.
Actually, anything that gets the status plus Gov. will always, without exception, be bigger and more powerful than anything what hasn't this status. So, either you give up in thinking that the difference in size is by itself unjust, or you'll have an unsolvable problem in hand. Why? Because you'll then have to start making decisions on HOW MUCH of the plug Gov. status you have to add to each and every company/service/whatever so that A plus X% Gov. perfectly balances out B plus Y% Gov., both perfectly balancing out C plus Z% Gov., and so on and so forth, with X%, Y%, Z% etc. having to be constantly (almost in real time really) reevaluated and redistributed. After all, neither A, nor B, nor C etc. are static and unchangeable.
And that's not to mention the problems arising from new players entering the market and old players leaving it, or the even worse problems arising from external governments also backing their global companies/services/whatevers to counter-compensate the local governments backing of their local companies/services/whatevers...
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
m a baby. Get it? M a baby.. oh forget it.
Only thing is, he is not a she...
Nothing new there. Again, I'm pretty stuck on post-colonial Africa (where we propped up the 'democratic' regime of Mugabe for decades, and continue to do the like) -- I just finished reading The Fate of Africa by Martin Meredith. Illuminating and disturbing.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
I think he means Jane Jackson.
The "for coke pepsi" brigade says there is pestiside in local water too. So why single them out. Well many times while travelling I have not taken local water because of impurity dangers. Now if I am paying money to drink something, I expect it to be free of pesticides. There is nothing new in this issue, its over a year old and keeps shuffling from one dept to other.
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
The greens are only "not communist" because they're in denial or being intentionally deceptive.
"as part of a campaign against monopolistic corporations"
hmm..are they going to stop servicing monopolistic corporations too? Since many citizens work at call centers that support these corporations, I don't see this as very effective.
For the record, that's not fascism, it's pretty much your garden-variety authoritarianism. If you wanted an example of the United States being a fascist entity, there are several. From Wikipedia:
"Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."
Feel free to chime in with comparisons involving neo-conservatism, fanatical Christianity, corporate lackey-ism, Manifest Destiny in the Middle East, or any combination thereof.
Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
Except Linux isn't a company, so they're not supporting one company over another (they're not even supporting - they're recommending). Linux is an open source operating system that can be supported and modified by any company or group of people. India has a lot of underemployed skilled technical people, having them support and modify Linux distros for Indian schools and companies is much better for India than those companies and schools sending their money to another country.
"What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
It was interesting the spin that CNBC put on this story:
"A communist government in India has banned Microsoft from government computers." The gal's voice was just dripping with sarcasm and hatred.
It's a normal, exciting event when a Christian Democrat or Republican-controlled state or city government starts calling Novel/SuSE and Red Hat, but when communist does it, it really changes the way the media in the US reacts. Btw, they might have been a little mode sedate and professional when interviewing an exec from Red Hat later in the show. Didn't catch the interview.
They're all imported. Growing HEMP in the US is illegal because the stupid authorities can't tell the difference between HEMP plants and marijuana.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
> "The New York Times reports that the communist government in the
>Indian state of Kerala is trying to remove Microsoft from its public institutions
Ummm, India:
1. Isn't doing so well with their own economic models. For a minister to pretend he's suddenly concerned is beyond belief.
2. India is home to massive governmental-guaranteed (i.e. government-owned) monopolies in hundreds of major industries. If India's primary software were provided by a government-owned company, and had a greater market share than MS, with more quality and security problems, this buffoon rail against privatization with every fiber of his being.
Oh, the temerity of politicians.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
> And exactly why is being a communist bad?
A hundred years ago you could have been excused for speaking something so horrific on the grounds that the jury was still out. History has now rendered its verdict. All of the fad philosophies of the late 19th and early 20th century were fatally flawed. It wasn't just that there were implemented poorly, the wrong people were in charge, the revolution wasn't hijacked. Communism, Socialism, National Socialism, Fascism, all were similar far more than they differed. All were based on the idea that an annoited 'wise' few were capable to and therefore would make all of the decisions and use the power of the modern nationstate to enforce their edicts at gunpoint. All four resulted in millions of corpses in mass graves each and every time any people anywhere tried to implement them. No, shut the fuck up you idiots in the back row, EVERY TIME.
> It is just another idea that tries to create a perfect world.
And gave us Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Valdimir Lenin, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, Fidel Castro.... need I continue? NO admirable figures headed up a communist state or similar state. The weakened version, socialism, has left Europe an enfeebled ghost of its former self and is on course to lead to the total loss of Western Civilization. Fascism and National Socialism proved so virulent it required WWII to purge it and even today just speaking their names causes all right thinking people to shudder in memory of the horrors.
> a) tell other people what's good and what's not good (tell as in force them to...)
But isn't that the core idea that underlies all four philosiphical systems you seem to admire? That a small elite, (wise and educated beyond the mere mortals they rule over) will make all decisions, for the people's 'own good.' So why is it good when a cabal of communists decide what is best for the people but so totally wrong when Western corporations try to export market proven products.
Hey, I agree with installing the penguin over spanding scarce export dollars, but lets be clear about these guys motivations, k?
Democrat delenda est
Yep, darn nice place. Not just saying it because I'm from there :)
I know I posted it before, but still makes a good read:
Kerala Enigma
Kerala Model
I remember how quickly things have changed in Kerala over the past few years. It is a good environment for open source to take root. I graduated High School in 1999 (in Oman) and before moving to the US to start college, I spent four months in Kerala - the longest I've ever spent. Back then to get access to the internet, you had to go to Ernakulam, which is about a hour-long car drive from my hometown. When my sister went to India in 2002, there was an Internet Cafe 15 minutes from our house. Broadband too. It only took three years. When I went there in 2004, there were even more internet cafes, and when I went back there again in May there were Internet Cafes all OVER the place - most people are well-versed with the internet and just computers in general. Another thing that you can find in Kerala is computer institutes - all over the place. Billboards advertising training in C/C++/Java/Webdesign etc. etc. Kerala already has a good presence in Open Source (Malayalam Open Source Software, More Malayalam Open Source). A lot of this might be due to the fact that Kerala is the most literate state in India, and also one of the most politically aware. A Malayalee's day starts with a look at the morning newspaper. Also because of the cost-benefits in general, and the fact that Kerala has a penchant for communism, open source will find a good environment to thrive. Monopolies... maybe not so much. Finally, the bulk of the microsoft software is pirated, and with all the validation stuff Microsoft has for their software, it would be easier to make the switch to open source. Then there is also the fact that recently Microsoft conducted a sort of raid in Kerala to look for illegal copies of Microsoft software.
Of course, all this might go down the drain due to the fact that even the most well-intentioned ideas can be disrupted by the notorious hartals (strikes).
Vivin Suresh Paliath
http://vivin.net
I like
Why should the government tell me which choices are "wrong"? How would you feel if the government ruled that alchoholic beverages are illegal because they cause people to behave irresponsibly and can cause alcohol poisoning?
I see far more "cool" beer commercials than I do Pepsi commercials, coincidentally.
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
I find it amusing when someone (a state, person, business), says, "We hate Microsoft because they're a monopoly, so I'm going to use other products!! Stickin' it to the MAN. Oh Yeaaaah!!" The irony is that the ability to use other products disproves that MS is a monopoly.
How can a state claim that they're fighting against a monopoly by using other products? That a state *can* move entirely to other products proves that there is no monopoly to begin with.
How about using other products because they're "better" (more value for the buck, better support, etc) rather than for some political agenda? If the non-MS software is "better", then great, use it on that basis. But if the MS products are actually "better", but not being used for the sake of a political agenda, then this state is screwing over its citizens by making them take part in the anti-MS jihad that most of them likely couldn't care less about.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Yes, that is substantially correct. It's a fallacious argument though, as marijuana needs plenty of sunlight to grow, and preferably an absence of male plants to produce an optimal product.
In practice hemp plantations make it very difficult to produce sinsemillia (unfertilized and very potent) weed for miles around the plantation, as the hemp pollen (the plant is wind fertilized) seems to get everywhere.
Communisim is bad because it goes against human nature, and therefore is doomed to failure in the long run. Therefore, in order to maintain a communist system, one must eventually use force.
But that's typical of most, if not all, utopian philsophies. You set out to establish a utopia, an ideal system, a man-made paradise where all is good and evil is vanquished. But next thing you know, you find yourself enforcing that utopia at the point of a gun, or are refusing people to leave the utopia after they've become disenchanted. Fortunately, most utopias remain small (cults) so they harm only to the small number of people that were misfortunate enough to join them. Communists, on the other hand, tried to impose their utopia on vast numbers of people, to great harm. It's no accident that during the Cold War, Eastern European countries had much worse living conditions than their Western counterparts, and many Eastern Europeans tried to make it to the West to better their lives, while hardly any Westerners tried to go to the Eastern Bloc. I remember when the Berlin Wall came down, the Eastern Berliners were shocked at how well stocked the Western Berlin stores were with goods.
Taking this discussion to the main topic, this article is simply another example of Communist government trying to impose a utopia on the citizens.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Isn't it interesting that the "reporter" called the government of India's southern state of Kerala: "Communist".
:) )
Hmm - India has a democratic government, perhaps better or worse than our own. (The USA) but not a communist government.
Hmm.. Is it perhaps possible that AMELIA GENTLEMAN, of the International Herald Tribune has his own agenda?
I think so. Its shameful to see this kind of obviously biased reporting get into the New York Times.
Amelia seems upset that the indian government banned Coke and Pesi recently, but Reuters news service says :
"In a report published earlier this month, environmental group The Centre for Science and Environment (CSE) said it found traces of pesticides far above permissible levels in the products of the two global beverage companies."
Whats interesting about that? Many schools here in the US are banning Coke and Pepsi too, because the stuffs unhealthy and contributes to the 30% rise in America obesity levels. I guess they're all communists too.
Another interesting note. According to the article MS sells windows in to schools in India for between $25 and $30 per computer. The Indian ministry of education as 1.86 million dollars to spend on computer technology for 1 million children. Yup, Thats $1.86 per kid. Hey MS ? Can you get that price a down a bit more? You know, like $0? Hmm.. if the OLPC hits its price point ($100) They can buy 180 thousand laptops. Thats almost 1 for every five kids. Maybe the gates foundation has spare money they can help out on this with. For a mere 8.14 million additional they can get an OLPC laptop for the rest of those kids! (yeah, I know, the OLPC isn't down t0 $100 yet. Using $100 makes the math easy...
They banned it because they say it contained pesticides.
If you had taken the time to do a quick Google Search you could have got your answer.
Vivin Suresh Paliath
http://vivin.net
I like
I believe the Canadian city of Winnipeg had a communist mayor for a long time. I had the choice of voting for the communist party in our last national election (it was REALLY tempting -- talk about a protest vote).
Communist doesn't really imply totalitarian. In fact, it's kind of odd that the original communist revolutions decided it was necessary to initially have a totalitarian state (which was supposed to be disbanded eventually).
M. Jane Kitchel?
Because part of the job of a government is to protect its citizens. If a tobacco company sets up and starts selling cigarettes to children while paying for adverts and TV programs which depict them as healthy then I certainly want the government to: 1)Tell that company that its choice was wrong and that it better stop, 2)Tell children that their choice is wrong, and 3) tell shopkeepers that their decision to sell cigarettes to children is wrong.
How would you feel if the government ruled that alchoholic beverages are illegal because they cause people to behave irresponsibly and can cause alcohol poisoning?
I would love it. I would cheer and laugh and look forward to walking streets after dark without fear of being attacked, and revel in the pleasure of a town which did not smell like a sewer every Saturday and Sunday morning. But then, I don't drink anyway.
The problem with alcohol is that, unlike Pepsi, the damage is done to those around you. It is done to not only the drunks but to the medical staff who are duty bound to try to treat them even as they lash out at them and puke on them, and to the public property which my taxes paid for, and to basically everyone who has the misfortune to live near a pub or club and have to live with the threats, attacks, public unination, defication, vandalism, theft, rape, and murder which accumulate around them.
However, prohibition would not really work. I doubt that it would make things worse but it would not make them better either.
Communisim is bad because it goes against human nature, and therefore is doomed to failure in the long run.
I strongly disagree. Communism works and has worked for as long as human history can record it. It is not against human nature for multiple people to cooperate for the benefit of all of them.
Therefore, in order to maintain a communist system, one must eventually use force.
This is also untrue. One example of communism is the nuclear family. Several people pool their resources and share a home, food, chores, etc. If one wants to leave, there is no reason they need to be forced to stay.
But that's typical of most, if not all, utopian philsophies. You set out to establish a utopia, an ideal system, a man-made paradise where all is good and evil is vanquished. But next thing you know, you find yourself enforcing that utopia at the point of a gun, or are refusing people to leave the utopia after they've become disenchanted.
You're making a fatal misjudgment. "Utopian philosophies" don't fail. Extremism fails. Every economy in the world is a blend of capitalism, communism, and socialism. Trying to eradicate any of these is an extreme and is what results in horrific failure, historically.
Fortunately, most utopias remain small (cults) so they harm only to the small number of people that were misfortunate enough to join them. Communists, on the other hand, tried to impose their utopia on vast numbers of people, to great harm.
There is nothing harmful about communism and nothing about it that implies it has to impose itself on large numbers of people. Communes have existed for thousands of years and are still chugging along just fine. The problem with communism, is that it becomes less and less effective the larger the communist cell grows. Moreover, since it necessarily concentrates decision making, it is more prone to authoritarian abuse than competitive systems.
The real discussion is the proper balance of communism, capitalism, and socialism within a given society. Communist cells compete in a capitalist economy against one another and everyone gives some to help those in need. In the US right now, we don't have socialized health care or drug treatment. We don't have progressive inheritance taxes. Our communist cells are mostly family units, although we also have some tightly knit communities in the form of communes, monasteries, and co-ops. The cell size is shrinking as more and more families become single parent affairs and as extended families spread out and break up.
If you look at the quality of living around the world, it suggests the US has too little socialism, and probably too small of communist cells for optimal efficiency.
Taking this discussion to the main topic, this article is simply another example of Communist government trying to impose a utopia on the citizens.
Ummm, how do you figure? These are people with communist leanings, but not working within a communist cell at all. They are a capitalist economy as much as the US is. Communism has absolutely no bearing on this decision at all. Also, they're not imposing anything. They suggested, but did not order the socialized education system to move away from a company that is a monopoly and which removes the advantages of capitalism, they wish to enjoy. To summarize, this was a bunch of people with communist leanings, directing the socialized part of their economy, to move towards more capitalism. A real capitalist would be overjoyed to hear it.
I find it absolutely amazing that, 17 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the word "communist" still constitutes an effective slur in arguments involving US citizens and organizations. Wake up and smell the coffee - Kerala's political leanings are not an issue here: lots of us with very un-Communist political leanings are quite in sympathy with its decision to distance itself from MS' monopolistic practices.
Unlimited growth == Cancer.
xenophobic, not zenophobic, xenophobic.
Your lack of understanding in the area of international finance is astounding..
There are a multitude of reasons for avoiding the Euro like the plague. One, the rules will be bent whenever the members see fit (Italy didn't even come CLOSE to qualifying, Germany ran a deficit that broke the rules)
With a single currency, the nation loses its ability to regulate regional costs.. If we have a single currency and enter a recession, we don't have the option of devaluing our currency to create a cheaper workforce.. During overheating, we don't have the option to increase the currency to slow things down.. Adjusting interest rates alone to do this without allowing the currency to fluctuate has limited value
>Explain why they *banned* coke and pepsi...
Because the pesticide content (from ground water source) in these products are alarmingly high.
This is the same state that banned sale of Coca Cola?
Because we all know Communists are againt monopolies!
My math is a little off today.
OK, so "Democratic and progressive" = "free software".
Err... OK...
Well, let me back up a little and try again:
"Democratic and progressive" = "Antimonopolistic" = "free software".
Err... eh, yeah.
One more try:
"Democratic and progressive" = "Antimonopolistic" = "Anti Microsoft" = "free software".
Err... Well, better... but still...
Maybe its me, but it seems that being Anti-Monopolistic doesn't necessarily mean that you are Anti-Profit, so the leap to "free software" has got me a little confused. I mean, it's not like they're saying their switching to Macs, right? This would be in keeping with their Anti-Monopolistic thing right?
Sounds to me like they just want free stuff.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm just saying, the leaps needed clarification. Or maybe they didn't. I dunno. Meh.
So, because the group that did the study has anti-west tendencies (or so you say), then the results should be expected to be flawed?
And because Coca Cola and Pepsi defend their products, then they must be right?
I'm sorry, but this logic is completely flawed. Why would you trust Coca Cola or Pepsi's word on this matter? Why would a group being "anti-west" change the results of pesticide tests? Either the products in question have pesticides in them, or they do not. Do you have access to samples and tests that allow you to determine the answer to this question?
A poster upthread said that Coke and Pepsi said that the pesticide was there because of the local water. If this is true, then that means that pesticide is still present in the products, doesn't it? So that would mean the study is not flawed, if pesticide was found.
... and then they built the supercollider.
What's even worse is that they are depriving themselves of all that WONDERFUL tech support.... At least the Indians would stand a chance of UNDERSTANDING them now.
The government of a Communist state, which is a democracy... Wait a minute, which is which. Can they both be true?
I have a tremendous respect for Tony Blair to realize this and take a leadership role, even though I despise the way the situation is handled internationally and the whole Iraq war doesn't sit well with me at all.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
Because it is communism? Having chosen communism doesn't automatically imply not having a choice. There are positive and negative aspects of everything, and there are different kinds of communism.
/.
But for the sake of not confusing the either-or-community, let's just distinguish between Good Communism and Bad Communism; we could call the former gCommunism, to make it more plausible here on
On the other hand, that would suggest a certain search company, governed only by people with lots of money*, which pays people to play at work, supports censorship, and keeps a huge database of information on everything they manage to put in it - including people and their opinions - is an example of Good Communism.
</confused sarcasm>
So I guess you're right, we might just as well call it social-democracy.
*Probably all of them are amongst the richest 5% in the world.
And exactly why is being a communist bad?
Communism isn't "bad." Communism fails when the communist cell size becomes too large because the centralized decision making is subject to the decay of information as it moves upward through layers of authority and because it is more and more subject to abuse by authoritarian elements. These people may have communist leanings, but they are operating in a capitalist economy with socialist elements, with respect to this decision.
Aside from that it is not a good idea to ban any product. This will just lead faster to more idiots.
For the coke and Pepsi examples cited here, they were banned automatically, like any other food that does not meet the government standards for not being poison. It is really just a matter of labeling. As for MS products, they were not banned. It was suggested that the socialized education system stop using them, because they are defective as a long term solution.
About being anti-western, in my point of view being anti-western is actually a good thing...
Being prejudiced about anything is not a good idea. Products should be evaluated to see what brings the most benefit for the cost. In this instance, the government was simply pointing out certain costs associated with breaking the capitalist model with a monopoly and suggesting to the schools that they avoid those products to avoid the hidden cost to Indian society.
Perhaps that's because it's essentially illegal to research, or even access other scientists' research, the medicinal benefits of marijuana. Not that it matters. We already know alcohol and tobacco are worse than marijuana. The only reason MJ is illegal and alcohol and tobacco are legal is because of the public outcry and outrage that would accompany the banning of our favorite vices. The situation will remain like this because, as part of the indoctrination in our schools, children are taught that marijuana is an evil gateway drug that'll make you into a cocaine-snorting crackwhore who will orally please anyone for some drugs. Hell, when I went to school they tried to force me to sign a pledge that I would never do drugs (to include tobacco and alcohol). They almost managed to stop me from graduating elementary school because I refused to sign such a pledge.
I also noticed you said "a good many studies" instead of "many good studies". I am highly skeptical of any studies sponsored by the current government which declare marijuana to be a dangerous, evil thing. Unfortunately, we'll never be able to verify their results since nobody is allowed to access them anymore, let alone duplicate their results.
SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling