There was no tour bus. There was a van we rented from a friend for $30 a day. We slept five to a hotel room, and stayed with friends on two of the 9 nights. We brought no tour manager or sound person. We had a friend who helped out with stuff for per diems ($10 a day) only. How's that for low overhead? We were gone for 10 days. We did around $7000 in cash (generally small to mid size clubs - largest payday was $2k). After paying for the van, gas, hotel, per diems, strings and other equpiment, booking agent (15%), and other etc. we netted $3200. Split 4 ways that was $800, or $80 a day. I'm interested in how you are setting things up to turn a profit. Please feel free to email me details. I could stand to learn a trick or two.
I put out a record on a major label recently. Just finished a sold out tour of the west coast a week or two ago. I have these thoughts: 1. The article is totally accurate. 2. Anybody who thinks successful musicians make it back in touring or merchandise is A COMPLETE IGNORANT IDIOT. Once you get close to going gold this might be true, but as the article pointed out, this happens to 138 of 30,0000 records. 3. My sold out tour of the west coast was the first profitable tour in almost a decade of touring. I made $80 a day once the profits were tabulated. 4. Merchandise sales are not major sources of revenue, but they help stem the bleeding. Less then half of that $80/day was from merchandise. 5. One word: EXPENSES. It's not just the money you get. It's also the money you pay out. And touring is expensive. Don't be one of those assholes who says "ah but the bands make it back from tours and merchandise" 6. A shitty sys-admin can do $30-40k a year. 7. A top notch musician who has practiced most of their life and given countless sacrifices for their job and has gone gold will do about the same. 8. A top notch musician who hasn't gone gold will be broke. 9. A shitty musician will be in debt. 10. Mama don't let your baby's grow up to be musicinas.
You are truly an ignorant piece of shit. How many bands are as big as Paul Mcartney. Do you think people would pay $200 a ticket to go see Built To Spill? Do you think all bands are billionares like Mccartney? Go read the earlier thread on touring costs and have a nice sip of reality.
You guys are ignorant. The same thing happens in the live music industry. Only a tiny miniscule ammount of people make money touring. And there are probably only a handful of people in the world (mostly actors, not musicians btw) who get paid to appear on magazines. I am a professional musician who recently put out a record on a major label. I did a west coast tour last month where every show was sold out. Wanna know how much money I made? $80 a day. And that's with the shows selling out. The live music industry is the same as the record industry. They've worked it out so that the musicians get nothing.
Re:There ARE other ways
on
Fair IP Laws?
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· Score: 1
Wow how ignorant. Of the composers and artists you mentioned the vast majority worked for aristocrats. Shakespeare himself very well might have been an aristocrat:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shakespe ar e/update/andersondoc.html
Why this common thread? Because the only way people can create works of art is if they aren't too busy trying to live. which means of course that someone has to pay them, so they can concentrate on art, and not putting food on the table.
MORAL: if you are an artist, you either better be rich yourself, or good friends with someone who is.
In your example, royalty picked up the bill, so I suppose the solution then would be to bring back the aristocrats.
In a capitalist world where works that took years to create can be digitally copied in a milisecond, monopolies are about the only hope artists have.
I'm willing to discuss alternatives to copyright, but first you have to come up with an alternative, and that's what is missing from your whole post: an alternative. you are just whining and not really proposing anything at all, and your historical sense of how artists made a living back in "the good old days" is completely out of whack.
Let me tell you what I'm talking about since I actually know what I am talking about and you don't (and i'm not being insulting: I'm signed to a major label). Labels have not been giving any of the money they've been collecting (or very very little of it) from digital downloads to the artists. Just like artists don't see any of the money collected from the sale of DAT machines, or cassettes. The only time the artists see the money is when some A&R guy decideds to treat them to dinner on his expense account (which annualy is ususally larger then the artists total annual income). Wake up.
If he had just written it down and hadn' t used it to entertain people on his presumably for profit website (i.e. public performance) he would not have gotten the cease and desist letter. so writing it down is not illegal. profiting from it is. got it?
Well if it doesn't violate copyright law, then it isn't piracy is it? I welcome you copying the CD you already own to an mp3 player. But if you are at all fair minded I think you'll agree that the trend out in the public is free pirated music. And as long as the music is available and easy to get I don't neccesarily blame the public (Hey if I could get a car just by thinking about what kind I want and then downloading it, I would do it in a heartbeat). but I do have a problemn with the rationalizers who try and defend this practice as if it is a defendable practice. it's not so defendable when it's how you make your living.
What's disgraceful is your complete lack of regard for the people actually making the music. Yeah pirate more music. I don't know what line of work you are in, but I'll gladly accept YOUR free services, since you don't really seem to think work has any value. I'm willing to bet any ammount that when it comes to YOU and YOUR WORK, suddenly free isn't so cool anymore.
if it's your music, no. if you write down someone else's music and you try to sell it, then yes, you owe someone money. if you are just writing someone else's music down as an intellectual exercise which you will not be publicly performing, or distributing, then no, you don't owe anyone, since you didn't make anything. if you say, copy an entire album from your friend, and drive around listening to it for two months, nobody is going to come after you, but you aren't doing the musicians who entertain you any favors, or offering much in the way of encouragment.
"Like in the U.S., this tax is collected and given directly to the record industry, a governmental subsidy for no apparent societal benefit"
Once again Artists fail to meet the minimum standards for being a member of society. I know this is flamebait around here, and lord knows I have no love for major labels, but is there any circumstance under which a mid-level artist can make a modest living? Do we have to get screwed by everybody (labels, the public, the internet etc.)? Three cheers to Canada for at least taking some responsibility, even if they are giving the money to the wrong people. What would really give MUSIC a shot in the arm is if Canada divided that money up among MUSICIANS first, and then allowed the musicians to decide (for once) how much the record companies should get. Of course that will never ever happen, but it is a nice thought. What will really happpen is the artistss won't get a cent of this money, unless it's an expense account dinner with an industry weasel trying to take some more. To all the assholes out there who actually think piracy is some societal "benfit" i give you the middle finger salute. The only people in society "benefitting" are the people stealing. The musicians are being, as usual, left in the dust. Piracy is only widening the gap between serious musicians who live in poverty, and the lucky few crass commercialists who pump aural shit out of factories. Want more generic corporate lowest common denominator safe as baby food music? Keep on pirating.
"And CmdrTaco has ALREADY stated he is OK with this -- he found someone who registered something similar to slashdot.org, and simply framed slashdot with ads. CmdrTaco told us he wasn't worried. Why should be be? What the heck is the point of going to the wrong site?"
I bet he would feel quite differently if someone set up a site and was able to re-route traffic from slashdot to the slashdot copy. That means they could get all of slashdot's visitors, and all of the banner ad profits, without having to actually give CmdrTaco anything.
Which, if you think about it, is exactly what copyright law protects against.
If you illegaly copy my music, and then use that music to generate ad revenues, subscribers, or sales of any kind, then you are using MY work to generate YOU money without compensating ME.
Which seems to be fine with many people here, since they don't actually have to make a living from music and nobody is threatening THEIR method of making a living.
Slashdot Mirror
Now THAT's communication!
Why are they calling this the *final* star wars movie? I thought Lucas had originally planned nine stories? Did something change?
I'll offer the same thing for $22.50! Shipping included! and um, I'll throw in a free yahoo e-mail account to boot!
Beat that!
You need to shorten it.
Try gs.
or maybe just g.
then you'll have apple g5's and g3 cell phones to include in your category too.
now see, if you had put a link in there somewhere, you could have been on-topic and gotten first post to boot. How cool would *that* be?
Help me Obi Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope.
But man check out that bong on the bottom shelf! When can we see that in action?
How much for a dimebag?
Midsize clubs 200-400. And no we didn't get ripped off. It's just expensive to tour, even if you do it dirt cheap. Which is my point.
There was no tour bus.
There was a van we rented from a friend for $30 a day. We slept five to a hotel room, and stayed with friends on two of the 9 nights. We brought no tour manager or sound person. We had a friend who helped out with stuff for per diems ($10 a day) only. How's that for low overhead?
We were gone for 10 days. We did around $7000 in cash (generally small to mid size clubs - largest payday was $2k). After paying for the van, gas, hotel, per diems, strings and other equpiment, booking agent (15%), and other etc. we netted $3200. Split 4 ways that was $800, or $80 a day.
I'm interested in how you are setting things up to turn a profit. Please feel free to email me details. I could stand to learn a trick or two.
I put out a record on a major label recently. Just finished a sold out tour of the west coast a week or two ago.
I have these thoughts:
1. The article is totally accurate.
2. Anybody who thinks successful musicians make it back in touring or merchandise is A COMPLETE IGNORANT IDIOT. Once you get close to going gold this might be true, but as the article pointed out, this happens to 138 of 30,0000 records.
3. My sold out tour of the west coast was the first profitable tour in almost a decade of touring. I made $80 a day once the profits were tabulated.
4. Merchandise sales are not major sources of revenue, but they help stem the bleeding. Less then half of that $80/day was from merchandise.
5. One word: EXPENSES. It's not just the money you get. It's also the money you pay out. And touring is expensive. Don't be one of those assholes who says "ah but the bands make it back from tours and merchandise"
6. A shitty sys-admin can do $30-40k a year.
7. A top notch musician who has practiced most of their life and given countless sacrifices for their job and has gone gold will do about the same.
8. A top notch musician who hasn't gone gold will be broke.
9. A shitty musician will be in debt.
10. Mama don't let your baby's grow up to be musicinas.
You are truly an ignorant piece of shit. How many bands are as big as Paul Mcartney. Do you think people would pay $200 a ticket to go see Built To Spill?
Do you think all bands are billionares like Mccartney? Go read the earlier thread on touring costs and have a nice sip of reality.
You guys are ignorant. The same thing happens in the live music industry. Only a tiny miniscule ammount of people make money touring. And there are probably only a handful of people in the world (mostly actors, not musicians btw) who get paid to appear on magazines.
I am a professional musician who recently put out a record on a major label. I did a west coast tour last month where every show was sold out. Wanna know how much money I made?
$80 a day. And that's with the shows selling out.
The live music industry is the same as the record industry. They've worked it out so that the musicians get nothing.
first link should be this
if a normal woman in space looks like this, then what in lord's name will happen to a supermodel?
so i can photon torpedo off topic hit whores...
Wow how ignorant.
e ar e/update/andersondoc.html
Of the composers and artists you mentioned the vast majority worked for aristocrats.
Shakespeare himself very well might have been an aristocrat:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shakesp
Why this common thread? Because the only way people can create works of art is if they aren't too busy trying to live.
which means of course that someone has to pay them, so they can concentrate on art, and not putting food on the table.
MORAL: if you are an artist, you either better be rich yourself, or good friends with someone who is.
In your example, royalty picked up the bill, so I suppose the solution then would be to bring back the aristocrats.
In a capitalist world where works that took years to create can be digitally copied in a milisecond, monopolies are about the only hope artists have.
I'm willing to discuss alternatives to copyright, but first you have to come up with an alternative, and that's what is missing from your whole post: an alternative.
you are just whining and not really proposing anything at all, and your historical sense of how artists made a living back in "the good old days" is completely out of whack.
Let me tell you what I'm talking about since I actually know what I am talking about and you don't (and i'm not being insulting: I'm signed to a major label). Labels have not been giving any of the money they've been collecting (or very very little of it) from digital downloads to the artists. Just like artists don't see any of the money collected from the sale of DAT machines, or cassettes. The only time the artists see the money is when some A&R guy decideds to treat them to dinner on his expense account (which annualy is ususally larger then the artists total annual income). Wake up.
If he had just written it down and hadn'
t used it to entertain people on his presumably for profit website (i.e. public performance) he would not have gotten the cease and desist letter. so writing it down is not illegal. profiting from it is.
got it?
Well if it doesn't violate copyright law, then it isn't piracy is it? I welcome you copying the CD you already own to an mp3 player. But if you are at all fair minded I think you'll agree that the trend out in the public is free pirated music. And as long as the music is available and easy to get I don't neccesarily blame the public (Hey if I could get a car just by thinking about what kind I want and then downloading it, I would do it in a heartbeat). but I do have a problemn with the rationalizers who try and defend this practice as if it is a defendable practice. it's not so defendable when it's how you make your living.
You guys are absolutely insane if you think Celine or any other artist is going to see a cent of this money.
What's disgraceful is your complete lack of regard for the people actually making the music. Yeah pirate more music.
I don't know what line of work you are in, but I'll gladly accept YOUR free services, since you don't really seem to think work has any value.
I'm willing to bet any ammount that when it comes to YOU and YOUR WORK, suddenly free isn't so cool anymore.
if it's your music, no.
if you write down someone else's music and you try to sell it, then yes, you owe someone money.
if you are just writing someone else's music down as an intellectual exercise which you will not be publicly performing, or distributing, then no, you don't owe anyone, since you didn't make anything.
if you say, copy an entire album from your friend, and drive around listening to it for two months, nobody is going to come after you, but you aren't doing the musicians who entertain you any favors, or offering much in the way of encouragment.
"And CmdrTaco has ALREADY stated he is OK with this -- he found someone who registered something similar to slashdot.org, and simply framed slashdot with ads. CmdrTaco told us he wasn't worried. Why should be be? What the heck is the point of going to the wrong site?" I bet he would feel quite differently if someone set up a site and was able to re-route traffic from slashdot to the slashdot copy. That means they could get all of slashdot's visitors, and all of the banner ad profits, without having to actually give CmdrTaco anything. Which, if you think about it, is exactly what copyright law protects against. If you illegaly copy my music, and then use that music to generate ad revenues, subscribers, or sales of any kind, then you are using MY work to generate YOU money without compensating ME. Which seems to be fine with many people here, since they don't actually have to make a living from music and nobody is threatening THEIR method of making a living.