What Gives? What gives is that Flash IS mostly used for annoying ads. So while you have these uses that a minority uses, the rest of us in our day to day surfing are nothing but annoyed by Flash. Most web pages now either have giant annoying Flash banner ads or even worse make you sit there for 30 seconds while some stupid ass Flash intro plays. Yea like people don't frantically search for the "skip intro" button once they get to see some huge ad loading.
Flash technology has been totally abused to make ads intrusive and annyoing. So yea you'll excuse the rest of the world if they find Flash to being annoying as hell for the most part.
And no we won't be switching to text based browsers. We'll just be disabling it like all the other annoying crap that tries to screw up our browsing experience. Your "Flash is the gateway to Rich Media" comment is rightfully falling on deaf ears.
Yes. Having an OS that comes with modern Stable software that is easy for anyone to install and use. Fedora fills that role where as Debian doesn't for most people.
I saw it includes the best Linux MP3 player available, ie rhythmbox. Is it possible to play MP3's out of the box now? Or do you still have to download an addon mp3 package? Either way I'm REALLY happy to see this app added. About time a linux distro had a good full featured MP3/music management app built-in.
Equals Modern system requirements. Want to run Gnome with all the good GUI stuff along with Open Office etc?
Why are you surprised. It isn't bloat its functionality. If you want to blame someone blame the people who write Gnome and KDE. Don't blame Fedora for being realistic and providing real system requirements. It's better than saying 128MB required for the GUI and then pissing everyone off because it runs slow as shit if you try to only use 128MB.
If you have an old machine that has less than 192MB then use something less demanding its as simple as that.
It's 2003, you can't be complaining because an OS requires 256MB to work right.
I've read enough initial reviews to see that the first Matrix is going to be primarily remembered as being way better than the two films that followed it. In the end its going to be sorta like Friday the 13th. The first one was actually fun and original, but nobody remembers that because they made a bunch of crappy sub-par versions after that. No one remembers that at the beginning there was a fun flick, just that the series went on too long. The same fait awaits the Matrix trilogy. They obviously should have never made any movies after the first one.
Oh well. At least the Return of the King probably won't suck.
"Novell should DEFINITELY keep the desktop distro free. This will be key in infiltration and getting techies involved and informed"
But Suse was never really Free. At least Free in the sense of what got linux to where it was today. Only available by FTP and not redistributable does not count as Free in any opensource book that I've read. If Suse does start providing a truly free desktop then I will be impressed, but until then there will always be a mark against them in my book.
I also don't see Novell opensourcing the only thing of value that they own, ie NDS or some of the juicy things from Suse and Ximian. Maybe they'll prove me wrong and opensource important parts that were formly proprietary but I doubt it.
I guess hurray for semi-proprietary Linux, but as you can tell I'm not too happy.
"People look for a traditional western storyline, and they can't handle characters who are both good and bad, and stories that deal with multiple social issues, without offering panaceas at the end."
Or maybe its the fact that 90% of anime is the same story over and over and over.
Today on anime. Guko is going to avenge his fathers death, but first he has to conquer his self doubts, but then his realizes he has a great power hidden within that he can unlock if is truly believes in himself. All the while his girlfriend(don't get me started with anime writers obsession with young women) with Giant Eyes will say stuff like "GO GukO" "Believe in yourself!".
Your forgetting that most hardware vendors were NEVER going to provide hardware drivers in the first place. So what's more useful? A)Sitting around complaining that most hardware vendors continue to ignore linux even after years of asking for support or B) trying to work with what's available and provide support for hardware that currently doesn't work with linux?
Whining that this somehow is going to make porting linux drivers less likely completely ignores that fact that Linux drivers were never coming in the first place. I say more power to them.
The same goes for Wine. Up till very recently I used to think of it as a crutch that discourages proper porting. Bottom line is the big desktop ISV's Intuit, Adobe, Microsoft have passed on developing for linux. There is ZERO indication that this situation is going to be changing anytime soon. If using Win32 drivers/software is the only way to access drivers/software that will never be coming to Linux anyway, I say use it.
Could be, might be, hopefully will be coming to Linux someday in the distant future doesn't mean shit.
I really hope Slashdot isn't going to start using those stupid yellow smiley faces for friend foe etc. On a website that is mostly Black white and Green, little yellow circles are about the most annoying graphic that could be added.
"The server line only is so successful because of the branding of the desktop line"
Sorry but your completely wrong on this and are totally ignoring the history of the company. People using Red Hat as a Server is EXACTLY what made the company. Red Hat rose up through the ranks by providing a stable easy to setup server since the mid 90's. When it comes to who pays the bills that keep Red Hat afloat, its the people who know Red Hat as a server that matter.
Only since Red Hat 8.0 has Red Hat been known for providing a decent desktop. Even then like I mentioned, servers not the desktops are what provided income for Red Hat. I don't know if your new to linux(no disrespect if you are), but long term Red Hat as a desktop never really mattered all that much.
"Any of you living on your own and paying electric bills would be well-served by underclocking"
What that $6-8 a month is bankrupting you? Even if you peg your cpu at full load 24/7 your probably only looking at $16-$18 a month Maximum. So the average person with 2pcs 24/7 is only about $15 a month.
Based on your needs why didn't you just get a low end duron or celeron? Your obviously not a gamer, so why did you waste all that money on a more expensive CPU? That would have saved you some of the money your concerned with right off the bat. No offense, but like I said buying a fast cpu and underclocking it is about the dumbist thing I've ever heard of.
"Frankly freedom of choice, even if it is the MS route really needs to be preserved. "
But the point is people, governments, and OEM's have never had what your calling "freedom of choice". They've had Windows shoved down their throat's if they wanted it are not.
At least this way people get a free OS, Office Suite etc and then are free to choose whether to spend their hard earned money on MS software.
I've always thought that this is the way it should be, especially when it comes to government computers which my tax dollars pay for. Give people Free software up front. If it meets their needs fine. If it doesn't that's fine as well. If you don't get people using Free software right up front, they will never learn that there is anything other then MS in the first place.
You'd have to ask Apple users why they let Apple treat them that way. Apple is well known for sticking it to its users, but even so they remain as loyal as ever. They obviously feel that the Apple experience is worth it to them no matter what. They are also used to being told how things are going to be and relish having one company making all their decisions for them. Hence why so many Apple users have a strong desire to use nothing but Apple software and Hardware. In return they have to take the good with the bad. The bad in this case being if they want to continue enjoying the "Apple experience" they need to pay up.
So personally do I think its unfair to force people to upgrade just because Apple is too greedy to backport to an almost new OS? Yes. Does my opinion matter to Apple users? Nope.
C&D has mentioned "ringer" cars several times over the years. I think even up till now Auto makers commonly put a "little extra" into cars for press reviewers. Depending on who is reviewing dictates how much they juice it up because they know with some reviewers they can only get away with so much.
Just as one other example I remember the first 1994 Integra GSR review in like 93. It ran 0-60 in 6.4 which of course Acura was happy to mention in future publications. For the rest of the duration of that model and over the next 6-7 years of road tests IIRC they never broke 7.0 seconds and even came in a little above that sometimes. A few seconds is one thing, a full half second is cheating.
" People made a big deal about it but I really have yet to use a low flow toilet that didn't work properly, with the biggest loads, on first flush."
You must be really lucky then. Low-flow toilets not being to flush all their contents is a very common problem. They are very well known for not being able to flush regular loads let alone the "biggest loads". Talk to any plumber about how well they work.
Obviously IBM doesn't see a market for Linux desktops running Notes yet. If they did or their clients were requesting anything but servers, I'm sure things would be different. Unfortunately your just going to have to wait until Linux starts showing up on more corporte desktops.
I mean we all agreed Long ago that part of the reason for MS's monopoly and why they are able to freeze Linux out so well was because of their ability to sell everyone on products that aren't finished yet. And here we are at Slashdot and I'm starting to forget a time when Slashdot wasn't among those those sites who hyped Longhorn on a daily basis.
Come on already, one announcement was enough. Why are you linking to Longhorn's developer site considering there is no news except for that it opened? Hoping to get a few Opensource developers to switch sides? Hearing that the Longhorn developer site got hacked etc, or that someone did some benchmarks that's news.
Hey I'm not saying Slashdot should only do articles about MS and antitrust etc, but jeez Longhorn is a long way off. The more Slashdot talks about it the more "real" Longhorn becomes and the better off Microsoft is. Give the Longhorn hype a rest already. If people really need more MS news there are a ton of sites out there that are way more suited to Microsoft PR then Slashdot.
Dell support got a well deserved rep for being decent 5 years ago. Today they are just coating along on that rep. If your not talking about servers with them or from a business with a shedload of PC's, they can be a real pain in the ass.
"They plan to be a company which makes services for enterprise, which incidentally will run on Linux. Think of them like GNU in GNU/Linux"
God I hope not. I know what you meant, but I'd hate to see them become that important to the Linux kernel. If they start GPLing their software fine, but until then they'll just be someone who makes technically good proprietary addons for Linux.
"Novell has some of the best enterprise management software in the industry. Linux definitely needs this."
Here's my point of view as someone more interested in Free Software for everyone then just having Linux take over the enterprise. I will admit that I will always cheer when Linux gets some big Enterprise scale win since less Windows in the world mean less headaches, but commercial success isn't any utopia IMO.
So knowing that I guess you could say that in reality I don't give a fart if Novell has some magic proprietary software that makes Linux win 100% market-share. What matters most is that Linux gets to the top using Free software. Any other way negates the positive effect of making the same software that Fortune 100 companies use available to the 10 node business or single user at home.
Is that possible? I think so. It may take a while, but I have no doubt that truly Free directory services that match or exceed AD and NDS will eventually come about. I'd really be upset if people left that piece of the puzzle to proprietary software.
The thing is while users would love it if many of the 3rd party proprietary commercial apps came to Linux we'd be stuck in the same situation we are now. Forget the Microsoft "tax", its the proprietary apps that tie us to the OS and limit who can afford to buy them. Making sure that users and businesses have everything they need for Free is really what matters.
I realize my view of the situation leaves out some aspects of the Free software debate. Realize though that when I look at how far we've come and much you can do with the Free software that comes with any distro, I have to ask why taint a good thing with non-Free software? Dance with the one who "brung ya" and finish out the way we started.
So from the view of a Free software advocate does Linux really "need this" proprietary technology? I think not.
I honestly have no idea why your surprised. Slashdot has never had a conscience about blowing away sites with the/. effect. It was done today, it will be done tomorrow, and the day after that.
"Windows Longhorn will feature radical changes in the GUI, maybe making todays' Windows XP look like Windows 3.11 in comparison"
Somehow I find that really hard to believe. If these screenshots are even sightly Representative of the way MS is going then its going to look a lot like XP with just different colored/sized widgets and maybe a stupid "infobar" that most people will disable because it takes up 30% of your screen. I know MS is holding some visual aspects back, but there is nothing I've seen that's far off from what has already been made by the modding community.
Will it be different then XP, Yes. Will it be some radical shift that someone working with XP won't even recognize? Doubtful. MS has invested too many years in getting its users used to the way Windows works. My guess for the GUI is XP & 1/2, ie more "things you can do with files" will pop up when browsing folders and of course a different theme and wallpaper. Remember that last radical shift GUI-wise was win 3.x to 95. The only thing massively different between 95 and XP gui-wise is the Start Menu. Underneath there may be a lot going on, but on top MS can't go too crazy because secretaries need to be able to find their programs and my docs folder just as easy as they did with XP and 95.
"I personally think MS is putting a lot of eggs in one basket with Longhorn. If it's a failure, MS will be hit hard by it, but with the market dominance they have, they're probably sleeping well at night anyway."
But like you inferred they can't really fail can they? I mean when 90% plus of all desktops ship with whatever OS you want how can you fail? Once these new desktops ship you'll need to upgrade all your apps etc and the treadmill will continue except for the 10% of users who realize that there are alternatives. MS may fail in a technical sense if they somehow fuck up Longhorn, but given that they have so much time I don't see how they could. Worst case they scale back features because they a)don't work or b) aren't wanted by beta testers, and then they ship win2003 plus minor updates as a desktop.
Slashdot Mirror
What Gives? What gives is that Flash IS mostly used for annoying ads. So while you have these uses that a minority uses, the rest of us in our day to day surfing are nothing but annoyed by Flash. Most web pages now either have giant annoying Flash banner ads or even worse make you sit there for 30 seconds while some stupid ass Flash intro plays. Yea like people don't frantically search for the "skip intro" button once they get to see some huge ad loading.
Flash technology has been totally abused to make ads intrusive and annyoing. So yea you'll excuse the rest of the world if they find Flash to being annoying as hell for the most part.
And no we won't be switching to text based browsers. We'll just be disabling it like all the other annoying crap that tries to screw up our browsing experience. Your "Flash is the gateway to Rich Media" comment is rightfully falling on deaf ears.
What moron modded this up?
"Is there a more lofty goal here I'm missing?"
Yes. Having an OS that comes with modern Stable software that is easy for anyone to install and use. Fedora fills that role where as Debian doesn't for most people.
I saw it includes the best Linux MP3 player available, ie rhythmbox. Is it possible to play MP3's out of the box now? Or do you still have to download an addon mp3 package? Either way I'm REALLY happy to see this app added. About time a linux distro had a good full featured MP3/music management app built-in.
Equals Modern system requirements. Want to run Gnome with all the good GUI stuff along with Open Office etc?
Why are you surprised. It isn't bloat its functionality. If you want to blame someone blame the people who write Gnome and KDE. Don't blame Fedora for being realistic and providing real system requirements. It's better than saying 128MB required for the GUI and then pissing everyone off because it runs slow as shit if you try to only use 128MB.
If you have an old machine that has less than 192MB then use something less demanding its as simple as that.
It's 2003, you can't be complaining because an OS requires 256MB to work right.
I've read enough initial reviews to see that the first Matrix is going to be primarily remembered as being way better than the two films that followed it. In the end its going to be sorta like Friday the 13th. The first one was actually fun and original, but nobody remembers that because they made a bunch of crappy sub-par versions after that. No one remembers that at the beginning there was a fun flick, just that the series went on too long. The same fait awaits the Matrix trilogy. They obviously should have never made any movies after the first one.
Oh well. At least the Return of the King probably won't suck.
"Novell should DEFINITELY keep the desktop distro free. This will be key in infiltration and getting techies involved and informed"
But Suse was never really Free. At least Free in the sense of what got linux to where it was today. Only available by FTP and not redistributable does not count as Free in any opensource book that I've read. If Suse does start providing a truly free desktop then I will be impressed, but until then there will always be a mark against them in my book.
I also don't see Novell opensourcing the only thing of value that they own, ie NDS or some of the juicy things from Suse and Ximian. Maybe they'll prove me wrong and opensource important parts that were formly proprietary but I doubt it.
I guess hurray for semi-proprietary Linux, but as you can tell I'm not too happy.
"People look for a traditional western storyline, and they can't handle characters who are both good and bad, and stories that deal with multiple social issues, without offering panaceas at the end."
Or maybe its the fact that 90% of anime is the same story over and over and over.
Today on anime. Guko is going to avenge his fathers death, but first he has to conquer his self doubts, but then his realizes he has a great power hidden within that he can unlock if is truly believes in himself. All the while his girlfriend(don't get me started with anime writers obsession with young women) with Giant Eyes will say stuff like "GO GukO" "Believe in yourself!".
Anime. Belch.
Your forgetting that most hardware vendors were NEVER going to provide hardware drivers in the first place. So what's more useful? A)Sitting around complaining that most hardware vendors continue to ignore linux even after years of asking for support or B) trying to work with what's available and provide support for hardware that currently doesn't work with linux?
Whining that this somehow is going to make porting linux drivers less likely completely ignores that fact that Linux drivers were never coming in the first place. I say more power to them.
The same goes for Wine. Up till very recently I used to think of it as a crutch that discourages proper porting. Bottom line is the big desktop ISV's Intuit, Adobe, Microsoft have passed on developing for linux. There is ZERO indication that this situation is going to be changing anytime soon. If using Win32 drivers/software is the only way to access drivers/software that will never be coming to Linux anyway, I say use it.
Could be, might be, hopefully will be coming to Linux someday in the distant future doesn't mean shit.
I really hope Slashdot isn't going to start using those stupid yellow smiley faces for friend foe etc. On a website that is mostly Black white and Green, little yellow circles are about the most annoying graphic that could be added.
"The server line only is so successful because of the branding of the desktop line"
Sorry but your completely wrong on this and are totally ignoring the history of the company. People using Red Hat as a Server is EXACTLY what made the company. Red Hat rose up through the ranks by providing a stable easy to setup server since the mid 90's. When it comes to who pays the bills that keep Red Hat afloat, its the people who know Red Hat as a server that matter.
Only since Red Hat 8.0 has Red Hat been known for providing a decent desktop. Even then like I mentioned, servers not the desktops are what provided income for Red Hat. I don't know if your new to linux(no disrespect if you are), but long term Red Hat as a desktop never really mattered all that much.
"Any of you living on your own and paying electric bills would be well-served by underclocking"
What that $6-8 a month is bankrupting you? Even if you peg your cpu at full load 24/7 your probably only looking at $16-$18 a month Maximum. So the average person with 2pcs 24/7 is only about $15 a month.
Based on your needs why didn't you just get a low end duron or celeron? Your obviously not a gamer, so why did you waste all that money on a more expensive CPU? That would have saved you some of the money your concerned with right off the bat. No offense, but like I said buying a fast cpu and underclocking it is about the dumbist thing I've ever heard of.
That 72% of all statistics are madeup on the spot?
"These machines from sun suck down the electricity and provide measly amounts of gflops as thoer benefit"
Umm numbers please?
"Each month the elctricity bill could have bought them 4 more dual g5 macs."
Again where's your proof?
How about next time more facts and less fanboi.
"Frankly freedom of choice, even if it is the MS route really needs to be preserved. "
But the point is people, governments, and OEM's have never had what your calling "freedom of choice". They've had Windows shoved down their throat's if they wanted it are not.
At least this way people get a free OS, Office Suite etc and then are free to choose whether to spend their hard earned money on MS software.
I've always thought that this is the way it should be, especially when it comes to government computers which my tax dollars pay for. Give people Free software up front. If it meets their needs fine. If it doesn't that's fine as well. If you don't get people using Free software right up front, they will never learn that there is anything other then MS in the first place.
You'd have to ask Apple users why they let Apple treat them that way. Apple is well known for sticking it to its users, but even so they remain as loyal as ever. They obviously feel that the Apple experience is worth it to them no matter what. They are also used to being told how things are going to be and relish having one company making all their decisions for them. Hence why so many Apple users have a strong desire to use nothing but Apple software and Hardware. In return they have to take the good with the bad. The bad in this case being if they want to continue enjoying the "Apple experience" they need to pay up.
So personally do I think its unfair to force people to upgrade just because Apple is too greedy to backport to an almost new OS? Yes. Does my opinion matter to Apple users? Nope.
Had it coming? Wow, I glad most people don't think like you in the real world.
The only thing this guy had "coming" was a warning not to do it again.
C&D has mentioned "ringer" cars several times over the years. I think even up till now Auto makers commonly put a "little extra" into cars for press reviewers. Depending on who is reviewing dictates how much they juice it up because they know with some reviewers they can only get away with so much.
Just as one other example I remember the first 1994 Integra GSR review in like 93. It ran 0-60 in 6.4 which of course Acura was happy to mention in future publications. For the rest of the duration of that model and over the next 6-7 years of road tests IIRC they never broke 7.0 seconds and even came in a little above that sometimes. A few seconds is one thing, a full half second is cheating.
" People made a big deal about it but I really have yet to use a low flow toilet that didn't work properly, with the biggest loads, on first flush."
You must be really lucky then. Low-flow toilets not being to flush all their contents is a very common problem. They are very well known for not being able to flush regular loads let alone the "biggest loads". Talk to any plumber about how well they work.
Flush flush flush.
Obviously IBM doesn't see a market for Linux desktops running Notes yet. If they did or their clients were requesting anything but servers, I'm sure things would be different. Unfortunately your just going to have to wait until Linux starts showing up on more corporte desktops.
I mean we all agreed Long ago that part of the reason for MS's monopoly and why they are able to freeze Linux out so well was because of their ability to sell everyone on products that aren't finished yet. And here we are at Slashdot and I'm starting to forget a time when Slashdot wasn't among those those sites who hyped Longhorn on a daily basis.
Come on already, one announcement was enough. Why are you linking to Longhorn's developer site considering there is no news except for that it opened? Hoping to get a few Opensource developers to switch sides? Hearing that the Longhorn developer site got hacked etc, or that someone did some benchmarks that's news.
Hey I'm not saying Slashdot should only do articles about MS and antitrust etc, but jeez Longhorn is a long way off. The more Slashdot talks about it the more "real" Longhorn becomes and the better off Microsoft is. Give the Longhorn hype a rest already. If people really need more MS news there are a ton of sites out there that are way more suited to Microsoft PR then Slashdot.
Dell support got a well deserved rep for being decent 5 years ago. Today they are just coating along on that rep. If your not talking about servers with them or from a business with a shedload of PC's, they can be a real pain in the ass.
"They plan to be a company which makes services for enterprise, which incidentally will run on Linux. Think of them like GNU in GNU/Linux"
God I hope not. I know what you meant, but I'd hate to see them become that important to the Linux kernel. If they start GPLing their software fine, but until then they'll just be someone who makes technically good proprietary addons for Linux.
"Novell has some of the best enterprise management software in the industry. Linux definitely needs this."
Here's my point of view as someone more interested in Free Software for everyone then just having Linux take over the enterprise. I will admit that I will always cheer when Linux gets some big Enterprise scale win since less Windows in the world mean less headaches, but commercial success isn't any utopia IMO.
So knowing that I guess you could say that in reality I don't give a fart if Novell has some magic proprietary software that makes Linux win 100% market-share. What matters most is that Linux gets to the top using Free software. Any other way negates the positive effect of making the same software that Fortune 100 companies use available to the 10 node business or single user at home.
Is that possible? I think so. It may take a while, but I have no doubt that truly Free directory services that match or exceed AD and NDS will eventually come about. I'd really be upset if people left that piece of the puzzle to proprietary software.
The thing is while users would love it if many of the 3rd party proprietary commercial apps came to Linux we'd be stuck in the same situation we are now. Forget the Microsoft "tax", its the proprietary apps that tie us to the OS and limit who can afford to buy them. Making sure that users and businesses have everything they need for Free is really what matters.
I realize my view of the situation leaves out some aspects of the Free software debate. Realize though that when I look at how far we've come and much you can do with the Free software that comes with any distro, I have to ask why taint a good thing with non-Free software? Dance with the one who "brung ya" and finish out the way we started.
So from the view of a Free software advocate does Linux really "need this" proprietary technology? I think not.
I honestly have no idea why your surprised. Slashdot has never had a conscience about blowing away sites with the /. effect. It was done today, it will be done tomorrow, and the day after that.
"Windows Longhorn will feature radical changes in the GUI, maybe making todays' Windows XP look like Windows 3.11 in comparison"
Somehow I find that really hard to believe. If these screenshots are even sightly Representative of the way MS is going then its going to look a lot like XP with just different colored/sized widgets and maybe a stupid "infobar" that most people will disable because it takes up 30% of your screen. I know MS is holding some visual aspects back, but there is nothing I've seen that's far off from what has already been made by the modding community.
Will it be different then XP, Yes. Will it be some radical shift that someone working with XP won't even recognize? Doubtful. MS has invested too many years in getting its users used to the way Windows works. My guess for the GUI is XP & 1/2, ie more "things you can do with files" will pop up when browsing folders and of course a different theme and wallpaper. Remember that last radical shift GUI-wise was win 3.x to 95. The only thing massively different between 95 and XP gui-wise is the Start Menu. Underneath there may be a lot going on, but on top MS can't go too crazy because secretaries need to be able to find their programs and my docs folder just as easy as they did with XP and 95.
"I personally think MS is putting a lot of eggs in one basket with Longhorn. If it's a failure, MS will be hit hard by it, but with the market dominance they have, they're probably sleeping well at night anyway."
But like you inferred they can't really fail can they? I mean when 90% plus of all desktops ship with whatever OS you want how can you fail? Once these new desktops ship you'll need to upgrade all your apps etc and the treadmill will continue except for the 10% of users who realize that there are alternatives. MS may fail in a technical sense if they somehow fuck up Longhorn, but given that they have so much time I don't see how they could. Worst case they scale back features because they a)don't work or b) aren't wanted by beta testers, and then they ship win2003 plus minor updates as a desktop.
Isn't it great having a monopoly?