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Dreamweaver MX, Flash MX With CrossOver Office
AstroDrabb writes "It seems that CodeWeavers' CrossOver Office 2.1 now supports Dreamweaver MX and Flash MX. So for those who have been waiting to ditch MS Windows because of these two apps, now is your chance. The announcement from CodeWeavers can be found here
and the changelog can be found here.
The list of supported applications is also getting pretty impressive."
but if they've been holding out for Dreamweaver and Flash before defection, what happens if the other side doesn't want them and their bloated, annoying web pages?
I meant Dreamweaver, but I'll guess I can download Flash too.
iIs it possible to sync a ipaq using codeweavers? I tried multisync but it is still buggy.
I am stick on win4lin now, but I have to admit that cw seems impressive.
G.
In all fairness, that's never going to happen.
Personally I'll be happy to move when there's a viable alternative for all the applications I run. Except there already are...so I guess I'm just idle.
Anyway the point is, or at least how I read your comment, that you aren't looking to ditch Windows because it suits your needs. I am, I just need the push. This could be it.
not to put down their achievement, but how is this any functionally different than running said applications in vmware/bochs/plex86? share a network drive, and you still have access to your filesystem(s). it's not like you need huge hardware accelerated performance (ie, running directx) to run flash authoring tools.
that said, this is pretty cool. my design windows using buddies all think flashmx is the de-facto standard app to know for getting hired as a designer these days. yes, it's lame, but it's hard to be elitist when it comes to getting paid.
Running Internet Explorer on Linux?
That's pretty impressive/terrifying indeed.
The path I walk alone is endlessly long.
30 minutes by bike, 15 by bus.
Obviously you know nothing about what CSS is, or are just stupid. Let me enlighten you.
In the beginning, there was the Web.
All was good. Bandwidth was, on average, low, but sites were small and to the point, and loaded quickly.
People began to use frames and many other things, marring the content with style.
But then, in this dark hour, when web pages loaded slowly and all hope was lost, a light appeared in the darkness.
It was CSS.
CSS is based on the idea that content, which is the actual information of a web page, should be entirely seperate from the style of a web page, which is defined by the CSS. If you disable CSS, the webpage should load as plain text and pictures and form elements, no spiffy navigation bar here, no sidebar here. Something that text-readers can understand and that loads very quickly. The CSS file also loads quickly, and by combining the two into one a web page can be made small, while still full of content and aesthetically pleasing.
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
down by the Flash/custom tags/CSS/ECMAScript crap that pollutes the Information Superhighway these days.
you're either missing the point of CSS, or you've never really seen what it can do. CSS is great for trimming _down_ the size of a page. instead of having font tags everywhere, you can easily assign blocks of text that behave according to the specification. color, font, style, alignment, etc. instead of having tons of nested tables to make sure everything fits, you can do it all with a few blocks of css.
now if only IE supported css correctly, we could actually see some cool uses of it that aren't broken to be compatible with IE.
while i'm probably going to get my head chewed off for saying this, flash has the same value. when you really need to have a multimedia presentation up, it sure beats having to write a java app. you don't necessarily need to make your whole site out of flash, or having stupid flash ads. doing things like 3d-models of cell phones or is perfect for flash. it used to be that you used quicktime vr for that, but why have a bizillion different plugins for doing tons of stuff that one flash plugin can do?
Remember to have an open mind !
:
Try others applications, try many applications ! Never say "I wan THIS application" or you will maybe loose a better apps.
I you want to run Outlook, Internet Explorer and MS office, I don't see why you would switch to another OS ! !
There' two kind of people
- people that want to STAY ! Those people are static. They think that it can be worse. They just follow others people...
- people that want more. They think that it can be better. Those people always look for the best.. Those people SEARCH !
So, if you want to search for better thing, say "I want to switch to another OS than Windows but I cannot since I use this and this software". Maybe someone know an answer or mayber someone will work on it.
If you want to stay, please don't post to say it, it's your choice, not the choice of people who are using tools like crossover office.
Ploum.net.
you're the most horrible troll on slashdot. Not even original.
Ditto for Director and even Authorware. I guess this is just a press release for Macrom~1
along with photoshop, macromedia products have been the most requested for codeweavers support, bar none, so this is excellent news... (btw, all you dreamweaver-bashers; yes, flash is often a bad idea, but no dreamweaver doesn't produce bloated code unless you have no idea what you're doing
however, note that dreamweaver/flash are only at 'bronze medal' status still good, as they promise to bring all bronze apps up to silver in future versions, but don't all you web designers delete that windows partition quite yet
You'll be wanting to get a Mac, then. In all seriousness, you honestly believe that Windows serves you better? That not having to update your OS's security holes five times a week and constantly sorting out what e-mails are good and what are viruses doesn't count as a beneficial "thing"? What beneficial "thing" do you need?
Some smaller developers may well take up the older versions under linux - certainly there could be benefits for testing on a local machine that's already running Apache, PHP & mysql, but bigger developers will want latest releases to stay up to date in the marketplace.
I dunno - the list of supported apps includes a lot of "known to not work" apps in it.
call me stupid, but, if they don't work how the heck
can you say they are supported?
looks like somebody was just trying to fluff up the list so they could get attention.
ttwisi
- jeff -
Hrm, whilst I agree wholeheartedly to the part about Frontpage, I think you'll find that in code view only mode (and a bit of settings tweaking in some cases) Dreamweaver MX can be a very useful tool for creating pleasant, w3 compliant (x)html. I find the site, database and CSS management features really useful, and I'm only a hobbyist when it comes to web design.
:)
I can't really speak for the WYSIWYG mode because I don't think people who can't be bothered learning HTML should be allowed to have websites.
See the hoardes of people lining up.
I don't know if this is god or bad.
It's good as it allows people to use a popular windows app in Linux x86. But it's bad because now there is less pressure on Macromedia to develop a native port or for somebody else to write a free Dreamweaver killer.
I personally would have preferred if some good programer had enhanced Mozilla composer to the same level of feature richnes as the Macromedia suite. That way not only x86 Linux users would have a content development tool but also users of other Linux platforms would have a good content development tool. Not to mention that it would also likely have run on Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, MacOS-X and windows.
God is REAL! Unless explicitly declared INTEGER
DreamweaverMX was a pretty horrendous application. But Macromedia got their act together with MX 2004 version which was released not too long ago. Old tags were depreciated and new standards took their place, such as complete CSS-based wysiwyg code generation. [table] tags are not default anymore, although I suspect you can revert back to standard HTML 4.1 transitional if you want. It has better integration with FireworksMX 2004, and x-browser compatibility development has greatly benefited.
Now, the bad part is that DW/FW MX 2004 are very unstable and bloated compared to the previous MX versions. Of course, if you're doing serious web development, Dreamweaver is not for you, but for casual users and people who aren't keen with site design and CSS, it could solve many problems.
MM_Script JS was quite possibly the worst thing in Fireworks and Dreamweaver had to offer. I haven't checked for its presence in the new version, but avoid it at all costs if you want your sites to be robust and unbloated.
Also, the content tags you speak of can be easily turned off in the preferences. Both in MX and MX 2004. Your rant about Flash presence is offtopic.
Our free and open GNU/*nix world is really missing some kind of Dreamweaver. As a Web developer I have not found something similiar in the free software and open source world. As the Dreamweaver/HomeSite/TopStyle pack is the one and only, there is still this big gap in the free software world. I would really appreciate a free software alternative before using any emulation.
Please developers of free and open software here is a great work to do for your fellow hackers!
I'll ditch windows when someone comes up with an OS that supports ALL the applications and games I currently run, and is faster or has some other 'thing' that would be beneficial to me.
This did exactly that for me, of course the downside is that you have to shell out a thick wad of cash. These Wine ports are nice if you are doing relatively light-weight stuff but as soon as you are working on a major website or a 100mb+ sized Photoshop document with a few dozen layers it is crash city. I prefer native software any day which is why I bought a Mac. That having been said this sort of software will certainly help generate Linux converts since it will more than do the trick for most people.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
I can't recall exactly when, but I remember setting up dreamweaver MX under Wine a while ago (let's say about a year). It is listed in the Wine Application DB, It worked pretty well back then, the only problem was that it crashed when you used the color selection box. I no longer use it now, I've come to my senses and use VIM.
Uh, the ability to have a fast machine that's several hundred dollars less expensive perhaps? The ability to purchase hardware from more than one vendor? Companies that believe in a little something called backward compatibility? Cheaper OS upgrades? Lemme know when you can upgrade a Mac to a 64 bit processor for under $1000 and we'll talk.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
Maybe you should check out Quanta Plus. (Yeah, site is ugly... it works great, though.) I've seen a lot of people say things like "Quanta Plus allowed me to switch to Linux!" Oh, and it got that Star Trek guy, that everybody(?) likes, to be able to dump Windows.
What about this?.
Jeremy White, CEO of CodeWeavers and crossover / wine developer, will be speaking at SCALE about this very subject: the latest developments in WINE! Want a free pass to the expo floor? Input the promo code "free" on our registration page.
You only pointed out hardware, and we're talking about software here. RTFA.
I guess you can defend mac vs. pc hardware debates and almost always win on price, but when you're talking about the OS and software, that's a whole different ballgame.
Qua?? Oh, filthy, wretched style! You insidious style and your fiendish plots to RUIN my glorious plain text, filled, nay juicy and overflowing with rich, delicious , sensuous velvety content!! CURSE you and CURSE your evil aesthetic ways for defacing my precious, precious content!! One day, one day I will have my revenge, and I will unleash a slavering HORDE of
- text-based hand held black and white web-enabled devices
to **render** your filthy style USELESS!!! ahahahahhahaand bought a Mac... and never looked back, but it's nice to hear that support for these useful tools is coming for the alt-OS X86 crowd.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Does it support Cygwin?
----
I dunno, but having a built-in Caching nameserver seems pretty useful to me. Makes web browsing faster, more convenient. One click install seems to be pretty much a linux only sort of thing, too. More directly related to the speed issue, the ability to compile everything from source means that you can do a shitload of optimizations to your system, and it'll probably run a lot faster. Plus, if you have a lot of network shares, Samba is faster, and a helluva lot nicer than windows for SMB shares. Plus, Linux has a Far nicer looking, more powerful windowing system than windows, to boot.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
That there is a lot of Microsoft Front Page 2003 Adverts on this article
Fool! The bandwidth that is wasted is that of third parties, competitors who might suck the bandwidth away from porn sites were they not preoccupied with slow loading "legitimate" sites. Let the others stagnate in their own diseased corner of the web and leave the vast plains of untamed porn ripe for the pillaging!
Also, take the menubar at the top of the screen. Sorry, but it sucks. I'd much rather have one menubar per app window; it doesn't take up much more room, and you're always certain which app's menu you're going into. At least the windows start menu is customizable as to the position, and hides itself.
I can go on and on here. Apple's about "think differently, as long as it's what we want you to think". The PC is much more open to tinkering, which leads to a much nicer experience. Sure, it's got some rough edges, but at the same time, the end result is a system that feels more like "mine" than a mac ever could.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
If you, on the other hand, are having problems with Windows, or find that it "kind of works", but would love to find something better, you should be more open-minded and realize that you probably won't be able to use all your apps on the new OS. And why should you? It is good for you to try out alternatives to the applications you are currently using if they do not suit your needs. But if they do, feel free to stick with them. Whatever suits your need.
CrossOver tries to run Windows software under Linux, which is probably useful for those who really want Linux but also would like to run certain Windows applications. Nothing wrong about that of course, as the Linux environment is quite different from Windows.
But in the end, is it really necessary to post trollish remarks like yours? I cannot see how it could possibly be useful. Then again, looking at your posting history, the comment does not surprise me :)
Clever signature text goes here.
But, since Mac OS X ONLY runs on Apple proprietary hardware, that means that anything wrong with the HW brings the OS's value down, too.
which is purportedly going to have WYSIWYG support. Give me a native app any day, I've never been able to get anything running under Wine to the standard where I can use it in a production environment. Plus I'd just much rather not have any software designed for Windows on my box. :)
An extended version of Mozilla Composer could be good too if anyone would code it.
Does 'supported' to them mean as stable as on native windows? Or do i have to expect increased peroidic crashes..
This isnt accpetable in business ( though how microsoft gets away with it, ill never understand. )
Hmm... where is the demo, or bit torrent to try it out for myself with MY applications? Or do they just expect me to take a leap of faith?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
It's a shame that we need to use tools like CrossOver Office 2.1 to support the Lotus Notes R5 client under Linux. With a company like IBM pushing Linux, it seems to me that getting a Notes client would be the obvious choise... (Lotus Domino servers already run on Linux).
Any idea when IE 6.0 will be supported by CodeWeavers ?
From here.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
He said games... But yeah, the Mac does have that game with the Apple logo....
-]Phreak Out[-
Look at how viruses spread. Then compare to flash. If one additional box had been included on the popup that asks you if you want to install flash, that says, no, and don't ask me again (instead of asking every time your mouse passes over an imbedded flash file), it wouldn't have spread so far so fast.
Flash is simply an animated gif enhancement for viewing more annoying banner ads. And for locking out users from web sites designed by designers that think it is more important to show off their flash programming skills than capturing a greater percentage of users through a more user-friendly site for the business or individual that the site is promoting.
As for Dreamweaver, regardless of the naysayers, it's bloated, not stable, and it still is not fully w3c compliant, even if you do know what you are doing. There is still non-compliant code that is inserted into source code, regardless of the settings.
For those who aren't chained to cold fusion, a better, more w3c compliant, and freer solution (as in freedom, and as in beer) is Quanta+. While wysiwyg is not in the stable release, it is in the cvs tree, and will launch when the new kde launches very shortly (check the mailing list for more updated info on the feature). And the other features are numerous, but the support for xml, and other technologies is all there. And the response from developers on the mailing list is fantastic, in features, in bug fixes, in help, and in just about everything else. I once thought I couldn't leave windows solely because of Dreamweaver, but Quanta+ enabled me to move to a much more stable and less restrictive operating system.
Sun, Adobe, and Macromedia, among other proprietary companies are the old guard. And they are the future SCO's of the tech world. The future is gpl'd source code for all applications. The rest of the world has already realized this, small businesses are catching on fast, and anyone looking to stay competitive and productive needs to admit this to themselves or they will be left behind, just like Sun, Adobe, and Macromedia.
Watch what happens to Sun in the next 18-24 months. Adobe and Macromedia will follow the same path shortly thereafter, maybe sooner.
And Oracle is not far behind...
Could someone point me to the download for OpenOffice.org Reader (readonly version of OO.org Writer, similar to MS Word Reader) for Windows for reading Word files. I can't download the whole of OO.org (70 MB plus) due to bandwidth restrictions here, so a smaller version should be helpful. Sorry to be (almost) offtopic :-). Please correct me if such a read-only version doesn't exist. Thanks.
So basically, you won't use Linux until Linux supports all the viruses Windows gets?
Jason Lotito
Its good to see CodeWeavers adding more application support to their product. I've used it for a bit but had a lot of trouble with applications simply vanishing (I assume they crashed) while working with them, or just had very slow performance. Its fun to play around with, but I'd be hung from the nearest rafter if I tried instituting this in a corporate environment.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
Just downloaded the beta -- worked great and now I can write my coldfusion code on my linux laptop at home!
"And I for one welcome our new insect overlords."
- Linux - say, $50
- Crossover Office - $59.99
- MS-Office - $400
Option 2:- WinXP Home Edition - $120
- MS-Office - $400
is this worth a saving of $10 (~2%) ? Or even $60 (~12%) given that, whatever you say about MS, Office (and all the other applications) are highly more likely to work better on XP than any emulated environment?Maybe for some corporate customers, but I doubt it. Even as a small business owner, I wouldnt take the risk.
Suppose I was buying a new computer on which I wished to run a wide variety of Windows applications. I could buy an OS-free PC, install Linux and then work out how to install Crossover Office in order to be able to run "most" of the functionality of a small number of applications. For only slightly more than the cost of a Crossover license and at considerably less trouble, I could buy an OEM edition of Windows and have access to a complete range of fully-supported Windows applications on my new PC and some reasonable level of commitment to keep them working.
Or, perhaps I buy a PC with Windows and an OEM version of Office pre-installed and save some time and money.
There are some niche applications for this product, but if you want to run a lot of Windows applications, running Windows seems like a more obvious way of doing it...
The Mac menu-bar bugs the hell out of me too. I also hate the lack of a 'background' for each app. There's nothing worse than maximizing an app and still seeing other apps behind it. Then if you accidentally click off the app onto the background, the menubar is now Finder's. So much for the often touted Mac usability. Don't get me started on the Dock.
Great, now you can develop webpages in linux (and really, what was stopping you before? there are a bazillion text editors for linux), but big deal since you still need to test them in Internet Explorer. Sure you could install it in a virtual machine, but then, you're running windows, and why not just run it in the first place?
Linux is still losing the desktop war, badly. Lack of applications that users want is hurting more than anything, with lack of ease of use pulling a fast second. Granted, it's better than it was, but it's still far from being competative. Already I can feel the burning eyes of hate on me. Oh well.
Also, learning how X treats submitted patches and updates (see the recent slashdot article about cygwin and X) makes me think there is almost no point in it being opensource, since the main benefits which should be derived from it being open are being stifled by the people who maintain the source. It's no wonder X is still way behind it's competition. How long has X been around? Even OSX (which i'm not overly fond of either) is vastly superior.
Windows might be closed, and it might go against the grain and ideology of most slashdot users, but on the desktop, it gets the job done, and then some. I for one am not going to wait for linux to become like Windows, when i can just run Windows right now.
Instead of trying to write something that emulates Windows, convince developers that it is actually somehow worthwhile for them to port their applications to linux. If linux does indeed have all these development advantages that people claim it does (more developers, more people patching flaws, etc) then why is there no software on par with dreamweaver available for it that runs nativly without the use of some compatibility/emulation layer?
Actually, if I had any mod points left, I'd mod him up.
Why? Because sometimes it's necessary that someone comes and rains on one's parade, just to remind one that reality is that-a-way. Otherwise, if all posts are along the lines of "woohoo, now we emulate Mini-Notepad-Lite v0.01, so Linux is ready for the desktop", some people might actually start believing it.
The reality, however, is more complex than that.
For the vast majority of people, an OS is just a funky loader for the applications they need. The _only_ reason to have an OS at all, or to have a computer at all, is to run those apps. That's all.
Real users (including corporate users) are really never Windows fans or Linux fans. They just have needs along the lines of "but I need a spreadsheet which can run all those macros and stylesheets we already have". (Something where, incidentally, OpenOffice fails miserably.) Or "but I need something which still runs all those ActiveX and Flash games on the MSN site." Or whatever.
Having Windows or Linux or OS/2 or even SCO Unix on their machine is _not_ their goal. Being able to keep hanging around with their buddies in EverQuest or with their ActiveX Backgammon buddies on Microsoft's site, on the other hand, might just be.
Normal users also don't like to learn new stuff or experiment. "Change" almost means "trauma" for the normal user. You have to give them a damn good reason to go through it. "You sorta can run some of your old apps" isn't even starting to cut it. They can run their apps without switching, too. Now if you gave them a killer app that they _can't_ run without switching, _that_ might count.
The normal user sees no thrill in experimenting. They don't want to try a car with the pedals in completely different position every week, and sometimes with a joystick or gamepad instead of a steering wheel. Same here. Ideally they'll want to learn once where the buttons are, and then find them in the exact same position in every single app, from now until doomsday.
I.e., again, you have to give them a damn good reason to switch to another OS.
Incidentally, it's another reason why Linux is still utterly unfit for Joe Average's desktop. Each app coming with a different set of widgets, and its own completely original interface, is _not_ what Joe Average wants. You can talk about the greatness of the Bazaar model and the advantages of free experimenting with new ideas all you want, for normal users all that's just unneeded stress. But that's a whole other topic.
Incidentally, the same applies to the browser flame wars. Same as Joe Average doesn't really care about the OS, only about the apps, he also doesn't care about the browser. He cares about the web sites. The browser is just a window to see the web through. It's just a tool, like his TV. And just like his TV, he'll not switch to another one, as long as the old one works reasonably well. But that's again another topic.
Basically all I'm saying is that the Real World (TM) works by completely other rules than the code-centric "woohoo, look at what cool gimmicks we've coded" view that's rampant on Slashdot. And sometimes someone has to come and rain on your parade. Call it trolling if you will. Personally I call it a "reality check."
Of course, that's not to say that I don't admire the work of the Wine coders. Damn impressive achievement, from a coder point of view. But also far from the point where it'll get Joe Average to switch. That's all I'm saying.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
there are good things about this. now pro web designers can pay a few extra dollars to be able to make sites on linux without wading through (as much) code.
there are bad things, too. this could subtract from the urgent need for an open source WYSIWYG web composer (there may be one or two but forgive me for preferring Dreamweaver).
i love Dreamweaver, but as a college student I don't really have money to be burnt on software. this is one of the many reasons i switched to linux. because of that switch i was able to stop pirating massive amounts of software.
this would tempt me to start again, but i don't have a clue where to find warez for linux, and i'm glad.
I was perplexed by the first word in your post, until I sounded it out and realized that you were making a feeble attempt at the French interrogative pronoun "Quoi."
Hint: trying to sound more intelligent than you are only makes the deficiency more obvious.
1. CrossoverOffice is significant because it allows migration of even dedicated Windows users, people who are inevitably tied to specific applications rather than the OS as such.
2. There is a Linux distro, Xandros, that comes with CrossoverOffice as a preinstalled component (at least in the deluxe Xandros). The combined package is cheaper than the two apart.
3. It becomes possible with this to create enterprise packages consisting of a bootable Linux CD with all the applications the users need, and all their data on network drives. Take random PC, insert USB identity module (/home on flash drive) boot from CD, and work.
This last one is IMHO a killer application since it removes the entire PC administration burden from large businesses.
CrossoverOffice is a significant product, a key part of Linux's inexorable drive to eliminating all other OSes from the commodity IT market.
My prediction: by end-2006, in three years' time, Windows will be in a significant minority position and Linux will be preinstalled on most or all PCs sold to home and business. Microsoft will either have embraced this and discovered a whole universe of new Office licensees, or will suffer a crash much like IBM suffered in the face of the PC's original success.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
You forgot cocoon and XSP, and what that means for building a cross-device website. There's also SMIL and SVG along with the other XML technologies, and what that means for getting rid of Flash.
Hoisted by your own petard, your deficiency is glaringly obvious.
Don't worry... No one important ever reads this crap anyway.
If I could get Interdev to run and be able to interface properly to FPSE enabled webservers on linux I'd be happy.
This is one of my big stumbling blocks to moving to linux...
He's a nobody, she's a nobody, wouldn't you like to be a nobody too?
History lesson: the CSS recommendation we all know and love started life as a proposal to the W3C by Microsoft Corporation. In about the same time frame, Netscape Communications made their own proposal: JavaScript StyleSheets (JSSS). MS naturally implemented their own proposal, NS implemented theirs. Shortly before Navigator 4 was to be released, the W3C settled on CSS and JSSS became roadkill. NS hastily retrofitted Navigator to translate CSS rules into JSSS rules that their style engine could understand, but of course the capabilities of the two technologies were different and so the result was less than whelming. Point: CSS suffered not because of a lousy cross-platform implementation, but because Navigator never did grok CSS; it just translated it (badly) into JSSS.
Oh dear.
Setting aside questions of taste (and grammar) inherent in the 'good visual appearance' portion, 'truly' cross-plaftorm compatible' is a load of horse manure. A great many browsers/platforms didn't support Flash until well after the advent of Netscape 6.2. Many still don't. And as far as accessibility goes, ever try to access even most recent Flash movies with a screen reader? Rotsa ruck.
Any 6.x version of NS you care to name was released weeks or months after the corresponding Mozilla version. IE 5/Macintosh offered far and away the best CSS support of any browser when it was released in '00--well ahead of NS 6.0. While it may be a bit dodgy by today's standards, even the original release of IE 5 for Mac is better than even the latest IE 6/Win.
Likewise, Opera 4.x sported a very solid CSS implementation--better than IE 5.x/Win, at least, and arguably on a par with IE 6/Win. That browser was out well before even IE 5/Mac.
Netscape 6.2 was a pretty good browser, particularly from a standards perspective, but it hardly broke new ground in that area.
Bullshit. I've been doing web sites since 1996 for large and smal companies (Kaplan, Inc., APBnews.com [if anyone remembers them], GovWorks.com, Eureka-GGN CTW and Insignia Financial Group, to name a few). I've not used Dreamweaver for any of those clients. Not one.
Hi, I'm nobody.
Matter of fact, I did several sites for Aktion Mensch (3rd most recognized brand in Germany) that used CSS for layout and had to look 'right' in NN4.x. I did 'em by hand.
Vi? Never touch the damned thing. Used BBEdit and HomeSite or HTMLKit mostly.
Macromedia.....Flash.....in their hardware and software incarnations all they do is either spy .vdo standard for .vdo one could even produce it
on consumers or try to interfere actively in their
lives. The sooner they go broke or get prosecuted
for stalking or privacy invasion the better.
Personally I liked the old
web video. With
herself or himself. Not so with macromedia. And
just about every other website I visit, like
startrek's official site, they want to push thie
known web spy and romote admin trojan on you.
It is now up to version 7. V7 knows how to get
windows internet explorer to not be able to stop
when the stop button is pushed. The only safe
way to surf startrek these days is now to use
Mozilla 1.5 or use Konqueror or Amaya. Prefer
Amaya but this laptop's wi fi card is one of
those new ones made to microsoft's standard
mantra....'stuff isnt done til linux wont run!'
Come to think of it they have done this to
LG cdrom drives as well.
I guess you can write perfectly every single human language on earth.
Maybe the poster has a point, or maybe not, but don't pick on him just based on his effort to communicate on a foreign language.
When it comes to browsers, the same users are actually thrilled to get away from MSIE's very basic user interface once they get to know it - in my experience. The user doesn't just care about web sites. You see, the user experiences a number of annoyances on the web, and finding out that other browsers can get rid of these annoyances is a huge plus! What good is a web page which works as it should if you get bombarded with ActiveX installation requests, popup ads and similar?
In the Real World, it does not matter which system you set the newbie to use, as he or she can use anything. You just need to tell them what to click to get what they want.
The problem with Linux vs. Windows is basically the intermediate user which is, say, used to Windows and expect Linux to behave the same. This intermediate user doesn't just click an icon to run a program - he installs new programs and knows a little about how the system works. And so, he's stuck with one system because other operating systems are so different from what he's used to.
I'm one of the people who are used to Windows and stick with it because it gets the job done. And it gets the job done because I'm used to it.
On the other hand, I've found superior alternatives to Microsoft's offerings when it comes to browsing, e-mail, newsgroups, and so on. The OS is just used to organize my files and launch the software I use every day, as you say. I have lots of minor and not so minor problems with Windows, such as problems with Explorer.exe crashing in Windows XP (something I've heard is not exactly uncommon, judging by other people's comments).
I'm a Linux user as well, but it's more because of curiosity than anything else. I use Windows as my primary OS. It's been like this for a few years now.
Would I switch to Linux full time if I got my favorite apps working under Linux? Probably not. I'm just so used to how Windows handles things, and I simply do not have the time to "master" a new OS (Mac is out of the question for me). For one, Linux is developing rapidly, and I am worried that I would be spending a lot of time configuring things again and again. Also, I am a gamer, and as a gamer, Windows is really the only choice for now.
But I don't go around posting trollish comments like the one by Sir Haxalot here...
Clever signature text goes here.
Tcl/Tk is great for whipping up a GUI-based application or applet, and it works fine in most academic or scientific environs, because you don't need fancy features but you do often want a solid, blocky, clearly-visible system.
They claim to support the Office 2000 features, and I've no reason to doubt them, so they've presumably been doing some serious work outside of the Tcl scripting language. OLE2 in Tcl would be frightening, for example.
The use of Wine is presumably to provide a lot of the capabilities of Windows. However, many of these can now be found in purely native Linux toolkits. As such, Wine is unnecessary overhead. Office apps are notoriously heavyweight, so excess is really not a good idea.
Having said all that, the concept of a power app is a good one, and all power to Codeweavers for the work they've done. If it inspires other app writers for Linux to go the extra mile, then it'll be worth every byte.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
My 21 month old daughter would disagree with you. For her, Flash is a way of watching Pingu the penguin jump across the ice flow, doing jigsaws online and learning letters from the Play with Clay Disney site. (Sorry no links - I'm at work and am not bringing those animations up now).
Flash can be used for more than ads. Personally I block Flash ads under Windows by using Firebird with the Flash Click to Run extension, and under OS X by using Safari with the Pith Helmet plug-in. Never see Flash ads, but I still use Flash content an awful lot.
Put it this way - you wouldn't call GIF a virus just because it can be used to show annoying ads, would you? No - it's just a viewing mechanism for an image and perhaps simple animation. Flash also is simply a viewing mechanism, purely in and of itself it is not a problem.
Cheers,
Ian
No sir, I assure you that you are the idiot.
The open source equivalent to dreamweaver is: a text editor (vi, emacs etc) the w3c recommendations for xhtml, css, dom level 1 Many professional web developers and designers choose not to use an application like dreamweaver because their knowledge is such that they can work faster and more precisely with a simple text editor.
I use my Gentoo Linux partition for just about everythnig, but have to reboot to windows when I need to get some work done and work with Macromedia Studio 2004. I know I'm not the only one who has repeatedly e-mailed and faxed and called Macromedia about Linux versions of their programs. I'd buy them in a heartbeat, and I know I'm not the only one.
Now that the MX versions of Flash and Dreamweaver can be run on Linux what incentive does Macromedia have for porting Stuio 2004 to Linux? While I compliment the Wine and Codeweavers teams in their effort, I wonder even how possible it will be to continue the progress they have started. MX 2004 comes everyone's favorite "feature," activation which will be a big hurdle for the Wine/Codeweavers team. They will either have to re-enginer the activation code (Hello DMCA) or work around it which will may further incite Macromedia reducing the chances it will get ported.
P.S. if we are going to have to go the compatability route, wouldn't it be easier/better to create a compatibility layer with OS X? This would open not only the Macromedia apps, but also the Adobe apps.
Introducing Microsoft Vacuum 1.0 The first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.
This announcement is excellent news, but as I do more coding, html editors seem less important than css editors.
Does anyone know good style editors for linux?
I've been using Top Style on Windows as well as Mozilla plugins like editcss. (I think Morphon has a (free) css editor, but I can't remember how well it's integrated into its xml editor.
Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston
Sketchpad is an application my wife (a high school teacher) uses ALL the time.
Now if Grade Machine worked under Wine...
Ok, here's a question.
Until relatively recently I was a windows client programmer, and worked with HTML etc only occasionally. Several times now, I've had a chance to start completely new website projects from scratch. Each time I've thought I'd give Dreamweaver a try and I have eventually always dumped it and used a cgi script to dynamically generate pages with Perl or PHP.
Once I'm past the prototyping phase, it seems easier to use Javascript and Perl (or something) to build dynamic pages rather than code static pages with Dreamweaver. (Besides I make better HTML than it does anyway! --- yeah right)
I'm wondering what boat I'm missing about Dreamweaver and similar sorts of tools. What should I be using them for? Is it a coincedence that my projects tend to involve content that changes frequently, and it would work better for content that is more constant?
-----
Pretty Bad Privacy (PBP) Public Key
6
I really think this (or something like it) will come to Linux. I use CrossOver Office (and Plugin) from time to time, but much less so than I used to. I originally got it to run Office apps (and occasionally IE because of the way we have an Oracle web app coded). Not so any more. Now I'm much more comfortable with OpenOffice 1.1 (and love that I can export to PDF). And mozilla 1.4 now does everytnig I need it to. No more inconsistencies to worry about, not to mention the added benefits such as pop-up blocking that you don't get with IE. My point, I guess, is that it probably won't be Dreamweaver, but eventually there will be something that will be quite usable. I wonder what Codeweavers' business plan will be when everyone decides they don't need Office or Photoshop.
I don't use Dreamweaver any longer, for the simple fact i code just as fast or faster by hand with a text editor. But it is the tool i suggest to everyone else when they are designing web pages. Out of all the WYSIWYG editors, Dreamweaver has been at the top for years, and still is. It's the most compliant, produces code that is less bloated than anything else, and doesn't screw up my hand coded pages. No other editor I know of can do that. As far as flash goes, I never considered it to have a language of its own until flash 5, that's when it began to be usable for web applications. Flash MX furthered the standard, and even more was possible, but it still had its limitations. Now with the newest MX 2004, flash has become a very good development tool. With webservice calls built in, xml objects, and form objects, it has finally switched from being an animation tool, to a web development tool. Almost everyone associates flash with short little animations, or annoying ads, but no one has seen the true capabilities of flash yet because there are not many people that use it as a development tool. The majority of people who use flash are designers, not programmers. There is at least one shopping cart where the entire GUI is in flash, and it works great. I myself have written web based graphing applications for oil companies, because they needed something they could print out from the data they receive instead of paying someone to draw it by hand and make copies for everyone else. Flash still has a ways to go before it can be used for mainstream web applications, but it's not far off at the moment.
Basically all I'm saying is that the Real World (TM) works by completely other rules than the code-centric "woohoo, look at what cool gimmicks we've coded" view that's rampant on Slashdot.
And perhaps your post would have some merit if it wasn't addressing a message to people on slashdot who want to move to Linux, not Joe Average on realworldTM.com.
Everything will be taken away from you.
Can someone explain the difference between the wine from winehq and the codeweavers product? Is codeweavers a fork of wine? Or is it more of branded version of wine like netscape/mozilla?
http://www.windmeadow.com/
Has anyone pointed out that both of these apps run great on OS X? I don't need to ditch windows, or use codeweaver. I just click the icon in the dock.
has anyone fully tested ms access? do vba modules work? i somehow doubt it, but it'd be great to know.
In my case, Office comes in handy when other researchers send me Excel spreadsheets with macros. OOO and StarOffice simple do not support Excel macros. The other case is for PeopleSoft. PeopleSoft uses the Microshaft java VM and simple will not work correctly with Sun's java and other browsers. Office offers me a choice to install IE 6. In this case, I don't have to dual boot Windows or have an open VMware windows install to use our PeopleSoft programs
Plugin comes in handy for personal surfing use by letting me see (on the web) information I can't see because its either in a plugin that is not Linux supported or will never be supported in Linux, i.e. Quicktime.
And yes you can setup mplayer to play Quicktime/ASF streams, but I simply don't have the time and energy. Install the Plugin package, install Quicktime program, bingo, I see videos.
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
If you're doing serious web development you need all the major browsers and platforms for testing. That means:
Mozilla/Linux
Mozilla/Win XP
IE5/Win 98,ME
IE6/Win XP
Opera/Win
IE5.1/Mac OS9
IE5.2/Mac OSX
Safari/Mac OSX
IE6 emulation in CrossOver is still flaky and I wouldn't trust an emulation layer that doesn't use native system calls anyway with a browser like IE which relies on these so heavily. The only reliable way to test an OS-specific browser like IE is to test on its native platform.
Ditching Windows simply isn't an option while IE/Win commands around 95% of the market. Emulation layers are no substitute for testing on native platforms.
I think its too early to predict the demise of companies like Oracle, MS's SQL Server and IBM's DB2. For the forseeable future (I hate to say 'always') there will be a market for high end databases for mission critical apps like banks and other financial systems. And there will always be companies than feel 'safer' with the support offered by said companies. Its easier (CYA) to blame an Oracle or a Microsoft than an opensource solution. Who do you point a finger at if postgresql crashes (not saying it will, just an example) and your company fails to meet quarter end? I know who your boss will be pointing his finger at....
One thing I don't understand is why more people are opting for mysql over postgresql. I looked into both for a small home project about 6 months ago and postgresql was the clear leader. Mysql was missing some key features that I think alot of apps use or it would be at least an inconvience to get around.
I also think, most people, like myself are sick of 'leasing' software and tired of upgrading every couple of years. Really, what does the latest and greatest MS Word do that I couldn't do in WP 5.1? :)
L8r
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
Funny...Have I been touched by your honorable presence as of late? You sure remind me of a sad, wicked, static beast I once knew. Sadly, s/h/e/it never made it 'cause of an strange refusal towards evolving!
You can lash out all you want, you'll never be like us - and that fact gnaws you to the bone...
--
"The only clear view is from atop the mountain of our dead selves." - Peter Carroll
You're not that special. Many thousands of volunteer developers don't write an operating system to suit you, they write to suit them. Companies that try and win Windows users over only really target the ones that are tired of Windows. Besides, your reserved position works the other way. I'll ditch Linux and use Windows when:
What, specifically, does one 'hack' in Windows, anyways? :P
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
This is great news, but I'm still stuck until Fireworks MX will run under Linux. I was able to get Dreamweaver MX and Flash MX to run under Wine to some success. But both where some what unstable (Enough to be unusable) and looking at the bronze rating it was given, Codeweaver states not to "depend" on a program with this rating, so I will wait a little more... Fireworks on the other hand, I never could get running. And searching the web could never find anyone that got it running under wine. Codeweaver if you are listening. Most developers/designers who use Dreamweaver or Flash also use Fireworks, and it would be great if you could work to get that working too.
I like my Linux computers. But, Flash MX is the OLD version of Flash. Flash MX 2004 is the current version. If you are platform agnostic, and committed to writing the best code possible, why would you do this???
Use Windows for Windows apps, Linux for Linux Apps.
HenryJamesFeltus.com
What about Adobe Framemaker? I will buy a CrossOver Office license when I can run both Framemaker 7 and Dreamweaver MX.
Does that have anything to do with the article? This article is noting the fact that two big applications now work (more ore less) with Crossover's wine that couldn't before. The article doesn't claim anything about "Linux" being "ready" for anything, merely some important progress has been made, and Dreamweaver and Flash MX users who want to switch to a Linux distribution, but previously couldn't, now can.
When an article (or post) comes up claiming that "Linux" is "ready" for "end users," you are more than correct in stating your opinion to the contrary, but that is not the case here, and you (as well as Sir Haxalot) are inserting your own imagined adversary into the equation in order to make a point about Linux.
You'll find that most Linux users are interested in the betterment of their Operating System, not pleasing you and Sir Haxalot. Distributions that aim to please Windows users, however, are all ears as to why you don't like their work.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
that's a big point in their favor. as I really don't want egg on my face when our apps don't work and i spent $$ for 'beta stuff'. We have some non-standard custom apps that are critical to business
Didn't know they had a download a demo available ( I asked them long ago and got what amounted to an inquisition and lost interest at that point ) but ill check it out and give it a whirl on our apps.
Though, not having access support is still a major thorn.. and no, we cant just 'switch to PHP and MYSQL' as many suggest, unless they want to do all the users work for free.. Access is SIMPLE and easy, even for an end user, to get something useable. Not great, but useable.. ( though I'm waiting anxiously for Kexi.. it might be one of the last pieces that are holding us back )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
you need a so called reality check. you are totally out of touch with this "average user" you claim to know.
the average users hates microsoft, windows, and by extensio, the manufacturer of their computer. they hate the crashes and they want something else. they are frustrated and also they do like to try new things and experiment, (hency the spyware that ends up on constantly on their machines).
you need to get stop speakiong for people you obviosuely have no clue about.
>but no one has seen the true capabilities of flash
>yet
Fear the power of Flash!!
http://www.deanliou.com/WinRG/WinRG.htm
In all seriousness, you honestly believe that Windows serves you better?
I don't believe it I KNOW it. I've messed around with the alternatives, and they all come up lacking for me. I'll grant that's at least partially due to my comfort with Windows, but that's not something I'm going to discount for the sake of fairness. If it suits me then it suits me. I actually used a Linux desktop for a few years exclusively on my home computer, and I went back to Windows b/c I got tired of always fucking with configurations to get things the way I wanted. I dual boot Gentoo now, but frankly, things seem so patchwork that it bothers me. Running KDE I've got a lot of nice KDE apps at my disposal, but I always end up finding a need for something that only Gnome has a mature answer for, or visa versa if I run Gnome. They have at least gotten a lot of the old configuration problems out of the way, I don't have to spend hours messing with text files anymore, but they still need some polishing. That said, I do boot into Linux for a good bit of development work because it provides a similar platform to what my web applications will be running in. The Mac desktop has ALWAYS felt counter intuitive to me despite what everybody seems to claim. OS X is the first time I've considered it a serious alternative, but I've already got a laptop, and OS X won't run on it, so it's not viable for me due to that.
That not having to update your OS's security holes five times a week and constantly sorting out what e-mails are good and what are viruses doesn't count as a beneficial "thing"?
Well, there's this crazy thing called Windows Update that will actually download updates automatically. It handles all those updates without much effort. Viruses in email aren't a problem for anybody who uses a decent mail client and has some common sense. I haven't had a virus on my computer in probably 5 years or more, and when I did have one it was b/c of something stupid that I installed.
Mac's are beautiful machines, and their operating system is extremely nice as well. That said, it is not the end all be all answer for everybody. Some people have used alternatives and *gasp* continue to use Windows. Whether it be for something as "unfair" as familiarity or lack of a certain application or for any number of reasons, it is their choice and a perfectly valid one. It gets old hearing "you need a Mac" everytime I turn around because no I really don't.
- b
+1 Insightful. This place is turning into Mac Addict. Is there a way we can segregate the gay homosexuals from the rest of us? Perhaps they need a new domain. Slashgay.org or something. They can give it a pretty polished look and have random, untitled icons on a bar at the bottom of the screen that are meaningless to anyone who isn't in "the know" or doesn't wear tight leather pants to the grocery store.
Umm, the parent post (sig) made use of the word "Qua". Perhaps he was simply mocking him?
I mean, you are switching from an unstable, propietary shit from microsoft in which you run propietary software from macromedia, to an unstable and propietary shit from Crossover in wich you run propietary software from macromedia??
If you want to switch to GNU, then run Free Software, if you just care about performance, then you are forgeting the free of speech part, and getting it more like in free beer (and if you are going to need shit like crossover, it will even be worse in performance, not to mention completely unethical, since Crossover is no more that Wine with a few stupid patches).
P.S: Don't get ofended, but it should be just vi, and if you want, you can add a few pngs to your webpage. If you feel like filing the allready messed up web with more flash shit, you really deserve to be stock at windoze95.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
It says Flash MX and Dreamweaver MX, but the 2004 versions were recently released. Does it work with Dreamweaver MX 2004?
There are sites like the Watergate hotel's reservation system that show the potential with Flash. But it is still damnably difficult for non-designers.
The answer is a product Macromedia has under development called Royale. Royale will allow developers to create Flash apps entirely in a code editor. It's been referred to as Flash for programmers.
Even noted Macromedia critic (and dot net apologist) Jesse Ezell has nice things to say about Royale.
You can read the Royale FAQ here
Macromedia will show Royale for the first time in public at their developers convention in late November.
Man Holmes
how is this any functionally different than running said applications in . . . plex86?
Plex86 is a very lightweight VM designed for running Linux only as a guest OS; this won't help you with Windows programs obviously (unless you use it just to isolate CW or Wine -- you still need one though). Plus you need a copy of Windows to run inside the other VMs anyway -- there's a significant performance loss too.
Karma: Positive (mostly due to rash moderations)
> I'll ditch Linux and use Windows when:
.................... ....................
> I can open it up and see what's inside.
> I don't have to rely on MS for patches to come
Yeah, that's one of the killers. While Microsoft does a generally decent job nowadays of implementing somewhat timely patches, there are occasions when they distribute patches that either (A) break something else or (B) don't really fix whatever bug or hole they're supposed to fix. That happens in Linux, too, but in Linux, if the main program distributor puts out a bad patch like that, you're likely to see some other company, organization or individual releasing an actual working patch. In Windows, this is impossible, because only one vendor has the source code and rights to patch it.
> Windows gets rid of product activation keys
> Is affordable
Well, you have to expect them to want to make money, right? I do wish that Microsoft would go the extra mile for the money, though. They don't really make a good effort on the tech support side unless your problem entirely involves their products (if you're running another company's product with their OS, or if you're having a problem with a Microsoft product not quite working right with a non-Microsoft mouse/keyboard/joystick, then the default answer seems to be "it's the other guy's problem" more often than it should be. And they should provide updates to programs for their OSes other than the products they market. The "Free" software companies go this extra mile, especially for their paying customers. So why can't Microsoft? It'd barely put a dent into their massive bank accounts.
> It can run Gnome
http://cygnome.sourceforge.net/
There you go. GNOME on Windows. I haven't tried it, but I have tried KDE on Windows. It's painfully slow on an 800MHz Duron with 512MB PC133 SDRAM and all hoggish KDE features enabled, but I tried quite some time ago, and I could have probably done some process priority tweaking to make it better. One of the neat things about it is that it recognizes some win32 applications (like Civilization III) and automagically makes a link to it in the Application Menu.
Anyway, YMMV, but GNOME is there.
> It eliminates spyware (you wouldn't see spyware on Linux, even IF it traded marketshare with Windows)
I don't have any spyware on my Win2k box. Granted, that's because I'm careful (resulting in an 800MHz machine that outperforms much faster computers that happen to have lots of unwanted stuff running in the background), but a decent power user can live a win32 life free of software espionage.
> It eliminates viruses (same deal).
Fortunately, viruses these days only come into your system if you (A) run an email program apparently made by the shittiest Q&A development team in history or (B) forget to close all open ports (well, TCP135-139 should do for the most part) as well as that stupid Messenger service (not talking about instant messaging, this is an internal windows component thing). I never get infected by viruses. Ever.
> When it gets some form of package management
Crap. Damnit. You got me here. This is why I run Mandrake 9.1 (soon to be 9.2, just after I make sure that I don't have an LG CD-ROM, heh) most of the time. I'm at work, and I just did the following from my Windows 2000 cygwin shell:
Administrator@jc ~
$ ssh jc@myipadress
[jc@jc jc]$ su
Password:
[root@jc jc]# urpmi --auto --no-verify-rpm OpenOffice.org
That is to say, I remotely connected to my linux box with 'ssh', then I became the root (administrative) user with 'su', then that final 'urpmi' command automatically sought out, downloaded, installed and configured OpenOffice.org, along with any prerequisite libraries and other stuff like fonts and the spell-checking add-in. This required no interaction from me. Heck, it did this while I was writing this message!
For equivalent results on
then don't ditch windows. this is about choice. if windows is the best environment for you, then fine. for many of us, it isn't. and for many more, it needn't be either. if i had an ofdice, and istalled say RH9/Mandrake9.X, and had them use OO.org, mozilla, evolution, etc., i would save tons on licensing, tons on maintenance, and tons on virus/trojan worries. and, i doubt i would lose 1 ounce of productivity.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
What makes you think I don't know about that?
Yes, wisely noted. For the common user, computers are still too much stress. They crash too often, they apparently become slower every month (or rather: the applications require more and more resources to run anywhere near acceptably), they're an endless source of unneeded trouble (e.g., spam and worms), they require entirely too much configuration, they require entirely too much reading dialog boxex (hence the clicking without reading, which installs that spyware), 90% of the programs he buys (e.g., PC games) are a sad excuse for a buggy beta, etc.
Yep, you're perfectly right. For the average user, today's state of computing is still a nightmare. And a lot of them do hate their computer, OS, whatever.
And I never claimed otherwise.
But I still maintain that said average user isn't anywhere near the "Windows is bad, Linux is good" state of mind, as you seem to assume. He still doesn't really care exactly what OS is on that computer, he just cares about running his apps with a minimum of fuss.
He's also not half as in an experimenting state of mind as you seem to assume. In fact, IMHO you seem to be mis-interpreting the phenomenon entirely.
A. Would he install a small app which claims to efortlessly save him some trouble (e.g., remember his passwords)? Damn right.
B. Would he go through the effort to install a whole new OS and learn a whole new set of apps? Not in your dreams.
What's the difference between the two? The difference is that A promises to let him use the same apps with a lot less hassle, while B promises to be more hassle.
The difference is that option A will still let him hang around the exact same Java chatrooms or ActiveX game sites, view the exact same web pages as before, use the exact same text editor that he hated learning to use in the first place, etc.
Option A promises to be a very small and very well defined change, that he thinks he understands. Usually one that requires learning no new skills, or very little in the way of new skills. Basically:
A. "Click here and we'll automatically store your passwords for you" is a small enough change to be pallatable, and it's conceptually easy to understand.
B. "Learn a whole new OS, a whole new browser and a whole new set of office apps" is not. It's already beyond the threshold where "change" means "trauma".
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Basically I doubt that _that_ many people were just dying to switch, and those two apps were _all_ that was holding them back. I doubt that that many people were running Dreamweaver MX at home to start with. Or that those who were, now will suddenly miss no other Windows app, and are ready to go Linux full time. That's all.
Still, I guess it's an improvement.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
In fact, I'd say Fireworks is *more* important than Dreamweaver on Linux -- certainly it would be to me. Because the strength of Dreamweaver centers around two things: (1) It makes it easy to design/edit web pages when you don't know HTML and (2) It makes it easy to futz about with design before you've settled on one.
Thing is, for most Linux users, #1 isn't going to be much of an issue. And #2 is better done in a graphics program suited to it. Which is exactly what Fireworks is. It's *much* better than Photoshop, because of the wide variety of vector oriented tools, better slicing facilities, all while having a good set of raster/bitmap tools and effects as well.
I'd also imagine this wouldn't be too hard for Macromedia. Their products seem to give the impression of a unified underlying toolset/library, though I couldn't speak authoritatively to that.
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
Now that these two apps are supported, ill contemplate the switch over. The reasons that i havent gone to linux is because the lack of support for games, and the lack of support for dreamweaver. Gaming is my biggest computer use, but i do use dreamweaver for coding html. Its a good prog b/c it does all of the "bitch work" of coding. I can code a lot faster with dreamweaver than with text editor. I tried the wysiwyg part of dreamweaver, and i wasnt too impressed. The css support isnt that great.
Oh yeah, i dont like windows at all, i cant wait until linux supports more games.
This seems to be the same kind of discussion as the Canadian company which manufactured the layer for win32 drivers to work under Linux.
Given that I call myself a supporter of open source why would I pay a 3rd party to use closed-source plugin for closed-source applications on an open source platform?
It smells hypocrisy and the crossover folks should bankrupt.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Excellent news on Dreamweaver.
.mdb file, but I want to know if ODBC works. (It would seem to be a rather hard thing to do, but then again, so is WINE!) This is particularly important for a lot of companies that have software packages from vendors that use Access as a front end to a bigger DB.
My question is how good is Access nowadays under Crossover. I see on the list that it can open the sample
I see this as an excellent effort to help the spread of Linux in corporate and industry environments. No, some of these apps have missing functionality and the range is limited, but this is almsot exactly what Mac users went through for around two and a half years before Macromedia, Adobe and Quark ported the major applications. Up until then quite a lot had to done in the Classic Mac OS9 environment running in OSX as a process, and a lot of the applications weren't perfect. There were some crashes and some things that didn't work any more but the admittedly loyal mac users put up with this because no one wants to dual boot all the time and they didn't want to forgo the advantages of OSX.
Crossover Office brings that very same functionality to Linux. It means that large corporations with loads of Office 2000 Licences and knowledge who are tired of Microsoft highjacking fees and changing licencing can use their legacy documents along with all the macros and VBA add-ons that they have on a platform that they can better control and customise, which is more secure (no VBA virus is going to trash their Linux system even if it trashes the Office installation) and far cheaper to maintain and purchase. The advantages are enormous. And Munich obviously knew this, since this is what they are doing.
Equally web designers who want to design with powerful tools and test on the end users platform no longer have to have two platforms or dual boot in order to serve on the same platform that their site will finally be hosted on.
Even all those movie studios who use Linux and Cinepaint will appreciate being able to use Photoshop as well.
I see advantages and good times ahead for codeweavers.
Dreamweaver MX
Flash MX
Anyway, this is neither here nor there. Obviously for you, customization and the ability to think as little as possible when working on your computer is more important to you than innovation, stability and security.
Now, before you get angry, allow me to clarify. We'll work this backwards. Thinking as little as possible is not necessarily a bad thing. If you want your menus in your windows, then fine. I have a hard time believing you can't figure out how the menu bar on a Mac works, though. In OSX the name of the application the menu bar is related to is right there next to the file menu. Easy access, easy to see. Plus, if you're in the wrong app, all it takes is switching to an app window or selecting it on the dock.
As far as customization goes, personally, I could take it or leave it. I can put a desktop picture, I can even change various graphics and animations, I, however, don't really feel the need to, though.
A big part of why Apple doesn't have a wide range of customization is because you have one operating system for every level of user. My mother doesn't want to have to dig through seventy different control panels to fix something simple. She wants it right there in front of her, and she could care less about what her windows look like. The "candy-colored crap" (which I'll address in a minute) is directed at her. It looks "cool." To her anyway.
Yes, we "power users" have to work at our customization, but that's the point of being a power user, right?
As far as "forcing candy-colored crap and brushed metal down your throat," this comes to innovation. I take it you haven't looked at Microsoft's next OS, and you must have also missed the glut of PC manufacturers that jumped on the colored case band-wagon. The colors, though, are a moot point, since it's been a year or two since they sold colored iMacs, anyway. And "Longhorn," the next-gen OS that's three years away, has basically ripped off the brushed metal look, only minus the brushing.
I've tried to put my bias aside, but on that last note, I've gotta say this. It's becoming more and more apparent that Apple is the one that sets the bar, for software and style anyway, and MS and its PC clone followers just keep straining to touch that bar. I'd honestly be willing to bet that if Apple, in 2005, released an OSX update that changed the brushed-metal to a purple-with-pink-polka-dots format, MS would revamp their whole UI to violet-blue-with-Barbie-pink-squares.
Wow, that comment was so ridiculously out of touch with the present, that I'm not even sure what kind of dated slang I should respond with.
Thank you, however, for having a reasonable response to the serious, second part of my comment. I'm too poor to give the others a fair shake and I was honestly curious.
Note to self: no more joking about platform choices....
"Many professional web developers and designers choose not to use an application like dreamweaver"
And then there's Dreamweaver for the other 99.9%
Yes , "Qua" was taken directly from the sig of the parent poster. MOCK, if you will, HIS feeble grasp of the romance languages, but know that I make no attempt here to speak in anything other than your "English."
Sorry I didn't catch the joke. There are a lot of zealots on /., and most of them are quite serious when they make statements like "x is the only reasonable choice". Anyway, sorry if I took your comment in the wrong light.
- b
That's all right. There was supposed to be a paragraph break inbetween the Mac comment and the question, I just failed to format it correctly. I still, though, appreciate your answer. Nice to hear the occasional reasonable voice.
The problem comes when a topic moves a step further, and becomes "To all those people who think Linux isn't ready for the desktop, It Is."
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
What's so difficult about using CSS, javascript, and html? You can still write brain-damaged web pages that work with IE bugs...er, features and once you start the code ports to the next version and you start to get a really good template base. I have written very little new code in the last year as a full-time web developer, instead reusing old stuff. If you're worried about the extra time, it is much faster to write in CSS/javascript/html than it is to write in flash, especially when you know enough CSS to not need a copy of the specs for each property.
You can have dreamweaver, I'll take a copy of Vi, CW Wine, IE, Mozilla, and Konqueror. I'll also save a few hundred bucks.
I've used Wine for many obscure applications, including: Nero, PowerDesk, LC2 Assembler/Simulator, and ePSXe. All applications worked with varying degrees of glitches, but I think if I extracted the registry entries from windows natively, most of those issues would not be present.
I'm not certain if Crossover Office this has any direct relation to the regular Wine codebase, but to me it sounds like a "Wine plus support" release.
Documentation is another story. Frank's Wine Corner is a good start though. Among other things, he documents how to get Office 2000 and Baldur's Gate working. Also, I found a howto for Photoshop, which I've heard works quite well. When I get around to it, I would like to start a similar howto site with full registry tweak details.
--Tim
Get a Clue(TM), you scrape gum for a living; it's just metaphorical gum in computer software. Win32 is that gum you are scraping at, and all you shithead Wine/WineX/Codeweaver fuckfaces just take that already-chewed gum and stick it under the Unix table for others to look upon. We don't like you fucktards doing that sort of work as it only ammends the problem without actualy fixing the problem. Make software for Unix: WE DON'T WANT WIN32 ON UNIX. We need Unix on Unix, or Unix on Linux for that matter.
Even Theo Duh Rat understands this concept. Go RTFM for POSIX!
HALLELUJAH!
HH-AA-LL-EE-LL-UU-JJ-AA-HH
Finally, Now I have no reason to use Windows anymore and can switch too...oooh hay look at Panther that's pretty cool and already runs everything Windows does...
Sorry Redhat guess your gonna have to be pretier and as useful as OS X now....
Ave Molech Setting
> I've come to my senses and use VIM.
I've converted to Catholicism and worship Buddha.
Not all of us are Average joe users some of us are content creators... Most of my webdev currently happens under Linux sometimes its PHP, sometimes Python sometimes Perl sometimes just static sites. Sometimes Flash is the best tool for the job - Being able to use Flash without rebooting would be a huge plus for me. (as would running IE for testing)...
I think that this is a positive step. It becomes possible to use flash - some web design companies will do this if there turns out to be an advantage to doing so then more users will come - These users will start demanding the same standard of support as users of other platforms thus Macromedia will feel more pressure to do a native port.
If on the other hand OS tools can offer the Functionality I need to get the job done I wont hesitate to use them
Pull your head out of your ass for just a sec ... ooohh wait, you probably don't even have a job so that means your heads been up there so fucking long you can't break the crustation weld from your shit hole.
:) .. ya penis-licking-pole-smoker
Got contribute to OpenOffice and make it work 100% with MS file formats before complaining about someone who is "making shit happen". The business market needs CrossOver to ease the transition for many "business" users that have to run MS fucking word to edit company documenta and no OpenOffice is not 100% there and never will be(wish that wasn't the case, it would be a miracle)...
So, shut the fuck up and keep your head up your ass til you get a clue and a job
And there's apparently a major bug in version 3.1, too. I used it for the first time a on someone's recommendation. I usually use Bluefish.
I decided to add my files under a new project, followed a wizard, and clicked "Add File." After I had selected everything, I realized that some were folders and there was actually a button "Add Folders." So, wanting to be carefull, I clicked "Clear List," and a notification window appeared for a split second, saying "Deleting..." My heart dropped, and, sure enough, all the previously written files that I wanted to add were gone.
I had backups from three weeks before, but this is certainly an undesired behavior. (Yes, I'm going to make a bug report today)
Put identity in the browser.
Apple iTunes
iTunes currently does not work in CrossOver Office.
found at page 5 of the SUPPORTED apps section
"And then there's Dreamweaver for the other 99.9%"
Those got moved to India.
Of course, brushed metal was something I thought was crap 5 years ago when gnome came with a brushed metal theme. It looked like ass then, and it looks like ass now on OS X. Same goes with cases. I stayed out of the "designer" case nonsense, and have a nice, simple white case that holds almost a dozen drives. Just as impressive as a fancy case, yet much, much more useful.
I use Linux because I love innovation, stability and speed. I've had all the "new and exciting" features Panther has offered for years, such as OpenGL compositing, brushed metal everything, and a fast open-source HTML renderer.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
It's a reference to the Red Vs Blue switch paradoy. You can go watch it at www.redvsblue.com
-]Phreak Out[-
You are a fucking retard if you think that page download time was the reason for CSS. Unmangling the source so that people could maintain content without nightmarish style breakage was the reason for CSS.
I'll take your word on it, as the movie download is timing out at the moment. I'll also apologize. I thought you might have been serious.
then why were you talking about Windows?
dumbass...