I hate to be a jerk, but christ, I can only take so much idiocy.
Since the entire thread was discussing the 360 I'd assumed he was talking about the 360 since he didn't say otherwise. My bad I guess.
If I'd been able to guess that he was referencing a completely different product line than the one being discussed,
However, based on my false assumption that the numbers he was quoting were trying to be relevant to the conversation (360)
What part of "past performance" and mention of competing against the Gamecube was so hard to understand? Should I have made it all blinking in capital bold letters with asterisks around it, instead of assuming you had basic reading comprehension skills?
Of course there are other costs, but until you can quantify those costs your just another poster pulling numbers out of their ass. That's my point and my issue! If you want to make such statements have the numbers to back them up!
because by looking at P&L breakdowns in SEC filings I can at least see that it isn't complete gibberish.
Google "xbox loss 4 billion". Take your pick. Notice how all the articles refer to the original XBox in the past, just like I did. Hell, one of the first 10 results is even a Slashdot story, and there's a Register story on the second page of the results with a direct link to a 10-Q form showing some of the loss.
For the product we ARE discussing, I've seen no numbers to suggest such a thing so I was nicely trying to point out for him what he was saying.
Amazing! I haven't seen anything saying that Microsoft had $4 billion+ lost on the 360 either! Maybe that's why I didn't even say that in the first place?
Since I don't have the numbers, I cannot do a complete breakdown to prove him wrong but my "reality check" numbers sure make the claim (I assumed he was trying to make) look very suspect
Extra double-plus good for you, proving me wrong on a claim I didn't (and wouldn't) even make, since I know how to do basic math and all. Thanks for having such an insulting opinion of my intelligence, too.
My point was that based on the past performance and gigantic monetary losses of the ***first*** XBox, one should not expect the 360 to automatically be a smashing success.
after all, the publishers would much prefer 1 system to have 100% marketshare, it would save them a fortune in development costs, and whether it's Sony of Microsoft doesn't really bother them.
So Nintendo is just going to vanish due to sheer terror or something?
MS would be perfectly happy of dominating the States (which it might the way the PS3 is going) and losing in Japan.
Based on their past performance - dead last in Japan, almost neck-and-neck with the Gamecube in the US, and losing billions of dollars....I wouldn't get your hopes up quite yet.
Friend of mine had to stand in a line of over 40 people for 8 hours a month after launch to get a console and they are still very rare to find on shelves. The demand for this product is unreal.
A whopping 40 people, and the wait was still 8 hours? I'm curious how that indicates unreal demand more than it indicates a horrible supply problem.
Everyone is commenting on it like they assume it's actually going to even work right in the first place. What happens if this thing comes out and it has massive lag, or a problem with the box "losing" the controller, or any number of other technical glitches (Power Glove anyone?).
So you've missed where many industry people have already had hands-on experience with the thing, and are already a fair way through developing games that use it? Apparently you're assuming Nintendo learned nothing from the Power Glove, and also that they're doing zero testing on the new controller - practically every public report i've ever seen by someone that wasn't a rabid Microsoft/Sony fanboy has had nothing but glowing praise for it.
Imagine if the NES had been released with the light gun as the only controller?
How is that even a valid comparision? The light gun was designed to do one thing - gun games. The Revolution controller is being specifically designed to be a "real" controller, and not just a one-trick pony.
I suspect we might see a more traditional controller emerge when everything is said and done--whether from Nintendo itself, or a 3rd party.
AFAIK, there will be "shells" released for different controller types, which the remote-style controller will be able to plug into as needed. I don't have a link offhand, but i'm pretty sure Nintendo has announced something official to that effect. Not to mention the fact that the Revolution will have 4 ports for standard Gamecube controllers, which has been known basically since the system was announced.
Gotta love these Nintendo articles....Please try searching a little first, instead of blathering some quasi-doom n' gloom statements with no real substance.
Just to perform a single show does take about eight hours worth of work. The time to pack up the equipment, drive to the show, unload, setup, and sound check is often two to three hours. Then you play for four hours. Then you have to reverse the whole process. Some days it can take ten hours.
Normal day for me = 1 hour washing/dressing/breakfast/feeding the cat/etc., 2 hours (total) commuting, 8 hours work
At least 11 hours devoted in some way to my job, 5 days a week, every week. My wife does the same, and is in the neighborhood of 10 hours spent just at the office during busy times as well.
Do you perform a show every single weekday? No?
I have nothing personal against you, your band, or musicians in general, but trying to compare what you do to most people's normal job is just crazy.
And if you don't think that music is playing hard work you clearly haven't got a clue.
With a few exceptions, it's not. If you mean "music is hard work if you try to run a band, write songs, and work a full-time job at the same time", then you might have a point.
My life no longer focuses on, "What should I do tonight?", it became, "What should we do tonight?"
Otherwise, if I was to tell my wife that I was going to sit down for a few hours and game, my marriage would not be as happy as it is.
If you honestly can't tell your wife that you're going to game (or do anything else, for that matter) for a few hours by yourself, then perhaps you should consider whether something's wrong there.
Speaking as someone who's wife is also a gamer, and much more so than yours sounds to be, we will often (aside from non-gaming activities) spend time on a MUD together, play games like Katamari Damacy or Smash Bros., or a co-op PC game like Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate.
Just as often, however, I will throw in a console RPG and play for several hours while my wife reads, chats, or does some websurfing - and vice-versa with her own particular absorbing solo activities.
All that said, our marriage is quite healthy and happy. Even if you're still in the same room with your spouse, spending time doing something that doesn't require constant interaction with them can be very recharging - The decision between solo and shared activities doesn't have to be all or nothing.
If anything requires that I have to spend over an hour focusing on, forget it.
Combined with everything else you mentioned, I have to say that you really sound like you're limiting yourself for no good reason, and in a rather unhealthy way. If you're happy, though, then so be it.
Seriously, who over the age of twenty is going to buy a DS?
Many more people than you think.
These are kids' toys we're talking about.
It's whatever you convince yourself it is. Those of us that aren't worried about being "mature" or scared of some bright colors and cuteness are quite comfortable with Nintendo and their "kids' toys".
Marketing can only do so much,
You keep thinking that. Meanwhile, Nintendo's laughing all the way to the bank:)
Even though there's a fairly stiff fine, people seem to ignore this law, by and large, and from what I've heard, the cops do nothing to enforce it.
I think part of the reason for that might be that the laws are not as restrictive in the surrouding states - it's fairly easy to start a conversation while it's technically legal (as far as I know) to do so in Virginia, but be in DC before you finish.
Personally, i've had one situation where I got lost rather badly going somewhere in northern VA and was still on the phone trying to get directions from somebody when I crossed into DC. Definite "Oh @$#&!" moment when I happened to stop right next to a police car while wandering downtown, but the officer didn't even bat an eye.
My backing is that I work on the geek squad. If someone had said "I took MY computer to the geek squad, and all they did was format it", that would be backing.
The point was, bitching at people for anecdotal evidence is pretty silly when you're doing the same thing. I could post that I work at geek squad and make some stories up, and it would have about as much weight as what you're saying.
Of course, when it gets to the level of something like this, one starts to wonder, but that's an issue for another time.
Most of these comments are simply people speculating about what they *think* it *might* be like - please don't comment without any backing to it.
So where's your backing? Why is your word better than anyone else's, when there's no way to verify what you've said (from what you've mentioned so far)?
Yet millions of Europeans (and in other places I suppose) do it daily. Amazing huh ?
Must be something in the US food.
When I parallel parked a rental car in a parking space (or possibly two, it felt like you could have parked a bus there) in one go near the Grand Canyon while driving around in the SW US, I remember I attracted a little crowd.
Congratulations, you just made a generalization about the entire country based on a visit to a tourist trap in one of its most open and least-densely populated areas.
It felt like people there only ever drove in their own driveway.
Again, this is such a staggeringly incorrect generalization that it's laughable. Good job at reinforcing the whole "arrogantly superiour European" stereotype, though.
Yeah, because Nintendo did so horribly with the Gamecube, making a profit and all. Not to mention the fact that they still have near-total dominance of the hand-held market.
People have been saying "Nintendo will die!" in various forms for years now, and it still hasn't happened. Perhaps you could actually explain why you think it's going to happen now?
First of all, if you're going to rant about how Americans are basically uncultured idiots, you may want to work on your spelling. That said -
After that happen, you'd be surprised how much of artists you liked are in fact are indies and has no relation to the RI/MA Ass. of America.
Looking at my playlist(s), i'd have to say I see almost zero indie artists. I do, however, see plenty of music from outside the US. Not really sure what point you're trying to make here.
MP/RI Ass. of America is in fact a show business cortel. They control (or own) production, promotion and resales channels of content.
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
I always tried to explain (unsuccessfully) you Americans what really at stake and what is the true problem of the RI/MP Ass of America. But they have already won your minds over - and you hardly hear the words.
P.S. That's the explanation why USA has such high crime rate. That's explains why you Americans at large has no understanding what's going outside: since you have no culture (but show business) one can hardly expect you to understand way others are living.
A little bit of information for you, from someone who actually lives in the United States - whatever you see of our country from popular television, music, news reports, or random Slashdot posters does not mean the entire population (or even most of it) feels the same.
Frankly, if I was to do the same thing, and base my opinion of the European countries on you and other people i've met online, i'd think the vast majority of you were arrogant, elitist, condescending jackasses.....But I know better than that, not to mention that I have made a few good friends in your part of the world over the years.
that's exactly what i did. the next morning, i found an email from a national insurance company offering me an entry-level position in sales management.
i know i need a job, but, seriously, WTF? that's just one step up from being a SCO lawyer.
Happened to me too - was looking for help desk and sysadmin positions after getting out of school, and would get at least one or two calls/emails per day wanting me to become a salesperson, a "financial advisor", or other such idiocy.
Best thing to do is just ignore them, or if it makes you feel better, write an email explaining in exhaustive detail just how much of an idiot they are for ignoring your resume. Even more fun if they send back a response.
So, how is Zelda, Mario or Smash bros. going to really utilize the new controller?
Personally, at least as far as Smash Bros. goes, I think the innovation will be more that of using the online functions rather than the new controller - barring some masterpiece of design that my puny brain can't comprehend, I can't see a game like SSB being all that playable without a more traditional controller.
At the very least, I imagine it'll use one of the rumored "shells" to allow the traditional controls while still incorporating the movement aspect somehow.
As of yet I have seen no type of game which could not have been made without the new controller... hoping Nintendo will deliver on this.
A Mario Paint-esque title would be perfect for the new controller, for one.
I used to like Star Trek, but I've been watching many "space opera"-type Sci-Fi series lately, both new and no so new (Farscape, Babylon 5, the new BSG, Firefly, etc.), and I've come to the realization that Star Trek (as a whole) really sucks.
Personally, i've watched all the other series you mention, and generally found them lacking (except possibly BSG) when compared to, say, DS9, or some of the better TNG episodes.
Seriously, if you need a "Trek fix", maybe it's time you broaden your horizons.
Seriously, if you think everyone else shares your exact likes and dislikes, maybe it's time you stopped being so elitist and arrogant.
Western RPGs. Think Morrowwind, or Knights of the Old Republic.
Judging by the original comment, I doubt the OP really understands much about console RPGs, and/or the distinction between Western and Japanese style - it's more likely that PC ports like Morrowind, Baldur's Gate, Knights of the Old Republic, etc. are just the only thing he knows as an RPG.
"What is funny is that the XBox was considered superior for RPG type games by a lot of folks I talked to. More titles were offered there than PS/PS2. When I considered getting a console, my friends all said "Go XBox. You like RPGs, dude."
As a matter of quantity, your friends had no clue what they were talking about. Look at this list, then look at this and this.
Yes, the PS/PS2 lists have some duplicates and games that were never translated, but i'd say they have easily twice as many RPG's available as the Xbox, if not more. Heck, you'd probably even be better off buying a GBA or a Cube for RPG's.
Slashdot Mirror
I hate to be a jerk, but christ, I can only take so much idiocy.
Since the entire thread was discussing the 360 I'd assumed he was talking about the 360 since he didn't say otherwise. My bad I guess.
If I'd been able to guess that he was referencing a completely different product line than the one being discussed,
However, based on my false assumption that the numbers he was quoting were trying to be relevant to the conversation (360)
What part of "past performance" and mention of competing against the Gamecube was so hard to understand? Should I have made it all blinking in capital bold letters with asterisks around it, instead of assuming you had basic reading comprehension skills?
Of course there are other costs, but until you can quantify those costs your just another poster pulling numbers out of their ass. That's my point and my issue! If you want to make such statements have the numbers to back them up!
because by looking at P&L breakdowns in SEC filings I can at least see that it isn't complete gibberish.
Google "xbox loss 4 billion". Take your pick. Notice how all the articles refer to the original XBox in the past, just like I did. Hell, one of the first 10 results is even a Slashdot story, and there's a Register story on the second page of the results with a direct link to a 10-Q form showing some of the loss.
For the product we ARE discussing, I've seen no numbers to suggest such a thing so I was nicely trying to point out for him what he was saying.
Amazing! I haven't seen anything saying that Microsoft had $4 billion+ lost on the 360 either! Maybe that's why I didn't even say that in the first place?
Since I don't have the numbers, I cannot do a complete breakdown to prove him wrong but my "reality check" numbers sure make the claim (I assumed he was trying to make) look very suspect
Extra double-plus good for you, proving me wrong on a claim I didn't (and wouldn't) even make, since I know how to do basic math and all. Thanks for having such an insulting opinion of my intelligence, too.
My point was that based on the past performance and gigantic monetary losses of the ***first*** XBox, one should not expect the 360 to automatically be a smashing success.
after all, the publishers would much prefer 1 system to have 100% marketshare, it would save them a fortune in development costs, and whether it's Sony of Microsoft doesn't really bother them.
So Nintendo is just going to vanish due to sheer terror or something?
Just as a bit of a reality check, you could also realize that I was referring to past performance with that line, i.e the original XBox.
MS would be perfectly happy of dominating the States (which it might the way the PS3 is going) and losing in Japan.
Based on their past performance - dead last in Japan, almost neck-and-neck with the Gamecube in the US, and losing billions of dollars....I wouldn't get your hopes up quite yet.
Friend of mine had to stand in a line of over 40 people for 8 hours a month after launch to get a console and they are still very rare to find on shelves. The demand for this product is unreal.
A whopping 40 people, and the wait was still 8 hours? I'm curious how that indicates unreal demand more than it indicates a horrible supply problem.
Everyone is commenting on it like they assume it's actually going to even work right in the first place. What happens if this thing comes out and it has massive lag, or a problem with the box "losing" the controller, or any number of other technical glitches (Power Glove anyone?).
So you've missed where many industry people have already had hands-on experience with the thing, and are already a fair way through developing games that use it? Apparently you're assuming Nintendo learned nothing from the Power Glove, and also that they're doing zero testing on the new controller - practically every public report i've ever seen by someone that wasn't a rabid Microsoft/Sony fanboy has had nothing but glowing praise for it.
Imagine if the NES had been released with the light gun as the only controller?
How is that even a valid comparision? The light gun was designed to do one thing - gun games. The Revolution controller is being specifically designed to be a "real" controller, and not just a one-trick pony.
I suspect we might see a more traditional controller emerge when everything is said and done--whether from Nintendo itself, or a 3rd party.
AFAIK, there will be "shells" released for different controller types, which the remote-style controller will be able to plug into as needed. I don't have a link offhand, but i'm pretty sure Nintendo has announced something official to that effect. Not to mention the fact that the Revolution will have 4 ports for standard Gamecube controllers, which has been known basically since the system was announced.
Gotta love these Nintendo articles....Please try searching a little first, instead of blathering some quasi-doom n' gloom statements with no real substance.
Just to perform a single show does take about eight hours worth of work. The time to pack up the equipment, drive to the show, unload, setup, and sound check is often two to three hours. Then you play for four hours. Then you have to reverse the whole process. Some days it can take ten hours.
Normal day for me = 1 hour washing/dressing/breakfast/feeding the cat/etc., 2 hours (total) commuting, 8 hours work
At least 11 hours devoted in some way to my job, 5 days a week, every week. My wife does the same, and is in the neighborhood of 10 hours spent just at the office during busy times as well.
Do you perform a show every single weekday? No?
I have nothing personal against you, your band, or musicians in general, but trying to compare what you do to most people's normal job is just crazy.
And if you don't think that music is playing hard work you clearly haven't got a clue.
With a few exceptions, it's not. If you mean "music is hard work if you try to run a band, write songs, and work a full-time job at the same time", then you might have a point.
My life no longer focuses on, "What should I do tonight?", it became, "What should we do tonight?"
Otherwise, if I was to tell my wife that I was going to sit down for a few hours and game, my marriage would not be as happy as it is.
If you honestly can't tell your wife that you're going to game (or do anything else, for that matter) for a few hours by yourself, then perhaps you should consider whether something's wrong there.
Speaking as someone who's wife is also a gamer, and much more so than yours sounds to be, we will often (aside from non-gaming activities) spend time on a MUD together, play games like Katamari Damacy or Smash Bros., or a co-op PC game like Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate.
Just as often, however, I will throw in a console RPG and play for several hours while my wife reads, chats, or does some websurfing - and vice-versa with her own particular absorbing solo activities.
All that said, our marriage is quite healthy and happy. Even if you're still in the same room with your spouse, spending time doing something that doesn't require constant interaction with them can be very recharging - The decision between solo and shared activities doesn't have to be all or nothing.
If anything requires that I have to spend over an hour focusing on, forget it.
Combined with everything else you mentioned, I have to say that you really sound like you're limiting yourself for no good reason, and in a rather unhealthy way. If you're happy, though, then so be it.
Seriously, who over the age of twenty is going to buy a DS?
:)
Many more people than you think.
These are kids' toys we're talking about.
It's whatever you convince yourself it is. Those of us that aren't worried about being "mature" or scared of some bright colors and cuteness are quite comfortable with Nintendo and their "kids' toys".
Marketing can only do so much,
You keep thinking that. Meanwhile, Nintendo's laughing all the way to the bank
I'm in DC all the time
Even though there's a fairly stiff fine, people seem to ignore this law, by and large, and from what I've heard, the cops do nothing to enforce it.
I think part of the reason for that might be that the laws are not as restrictive in the surrouding states - it's fairly easy to start a conversation while it's technically legal (as far as I know) to do so in Virginia, but be in DC before you finish.
Personally, i've had one situation where I got lost rather badly going somewhere in northern VA and was still on the phone trying to get directions from somebody when I crossed into DC. Definite "Oh @$#&!" moment when I happened to stop right next to a police car while wandering downtown, but the officer didn't even bat an eye.
My backing is that I work on the geek squad. If someone had said "I took MY computer to the geek squad, and all they did was format it", that would be backing.
The point was, bitching at people for anecdotal evidence is pretty silly when you're doing the same thing. I could post that I work at geek squad and make some stories up, and it would have about as much weight as what you're saying.
Of course, when it gets to the level of something like this, one starts to wonder, but that's an issue for another time.
Most of these comments are simply people speculating about what they *think* it *might* be like - please don't comment without any backing to it.
So where's your backing? Why is your word better than anyone else's, when there's no way to verify what you've said (from what you've mentioned so far)?
Yet millions of Europeans (and in other places I suppose) do it daily. Amazing huh ?
Must be something in the US food.
When I parallel parked a rental car in a parking space (or possibly two, it felt like you could have parked a bus there) in one go near the Grand Canyon while driving around in the SW US, I remember I attracted a little crowd.
Congratulations, you just made a generalization about the entire country based on a visit to a tourist trap in one of its most open and least-densely populated areas.
It felt like people there only ever drove in their own driveway.
Again, this is such a staggeringly incorrect generalization that it's laughable. Good job at reinforcing the whole "arrogantly superiour European" stereotype, though.
Yeah, because Nintendo did so horribly with the Gamecube, making a profit and all. Not to mention the fact that they still have near-total dominance of the hand-held market.
People have been saying "Nintendo will die!" in various forms for years now, and it still hasn't happened. Perhaps you could actually explain why you think it's going to happen now?
First of all, if you're going to rant about how Americans are basically uncultured idiots, you may want to work on your spelling.
That said -
After that happen, you'd be surprised how much of artists you liked are in fact are indies and has no relation to the RI/MA Ass. of America.
Looking at my playlist(s), i'd have to say I see almost zero indie artists. I do, however, see plenty of music from outside the US. Not really sure what point you're trying to make here.
MP/RI Ass. of America is in fact a show business cortel. They control (or own) production, promotion and resales channels of content.
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
I always tried to explain (unsuccessfully) you Americans what really at stake and what is the true problem of the RI/MP Ass of America. But they have already won your minds over - and you hardly hear the words.
P.S. That's the explanation why USA has such high crime rate. That's explains why you Americans at large has no understanding what's going outside: since you have no culture (but show business) one can hardly expect you to understand way others are living.
A little bit of information for you, from someone who actually lives in the United States - whatever you see of our country from popular television, music, news reports, or random Slashdot posters does not mean the entire population (or even most of it) feels the same.
Frankly, if I was to do the same thing, and base my opinion of the European countries on you and other people i've met online, i'd think the vast majority of you were arrogant, elitist, condescending jackasses.....But I know better than that, not to mention that I have made a few good friends in your part of the world over the years.
Can't they just add a friggin' VGA connector to them? Sheesh.
I could be misremembering, but I could swear I saw at some point that the Revolution will have one built-in.
that's exactly what i did. the next morning, i found an email from a national insurance company offering me an entry-level position in sales management.
i know i need a job, but, seriously, WTF? that's just one step up from being a SCO lawyer.
Happened to me too - was looking for help desk and sysadmin positions after getting out of school, and would get at least one or two calls/emails per day wanting me to become a salesperson, a "financial advisor", or other such idiocy.
Best thing to do is just ignore them, or if it makes you feel better, write an email explaining in exhaustive detail just how much of an idiot they are for ignoring your resume. Even more fun if they send back a response.
If you actually read the linked articles, you'll see that they didn't remove it. Why would they?
Indeed there are - which makes such complaints even more perplexing.
Americentric
A story on an American-run website writen by an American paper about American companies lobbying the American government....Imagine that!
So, how is Zelda, Mario or Smash bros. going to really utilize the new controller?
Personally, at least as far as Smash Bros. goes, I think the innovation will be more that of using the online functions rather than the new controller - barring some masterpiece of design that my puny brain can't comprehend, I can't see a game like SSB being all that playable without a more traditional controller.
At the very least, I imagine it'll use one of the rumored "shells" to allow the traditional controls while still incorporating the movement aspect somehow.
As of yet I have seen no type of game which could not have been made without the new controller... hoping Nintendo will deliver on this.
A Mario Paint-esque title would be perfect for the new controller, for one.
I used to like Star Trek, but I've been watching many "space opera"-type Sci-Fi series lately, both new and no so new (Farscape, Babylon 5, the new BSG, Firefly, etc.), and I've come to the realization that Star Trek (as a whole) really sucks.
Personally, i've watched all the other series you mention, and generally found them lacking (except possibly BSG) when compared to, say, DS9, or some of the better TNG episodes.
Seriously, if you need a "Trek fix", maybe it's time you broaden your horizons.
Seriously, if you think everyone else shares your exact likes and dislikes, maybe it's time you stopped being so elitist and arrogant.
All companies take a huge loss on consoles, and make the loss up on game revenues.
Last I heard, Nintendo doesn't, or at least has not the majority of the time.
Generalize much? Not all Japanese-made RPGs fit into that mold, or even all the FF games.
Care to list what Japanese-style games you've actually played? I'm guessing it's not a very exhaustive list.
Western RPGs. Think Morrowwind, or Knights of the Old Republic.
Judging by the original comment, I doubt the OP really understands much about console RPGs, and/or the distinction between Western and Japanese style - it's more likely that PC ports like Morrowind, Baldur's Gate, Knights of the Old Republic, etc. are just the only thing he knows as an RPG.
"What is funny is that the XBox was considered superior for RPG type games by a lot of folks I talked to. More titles were offered there than PS/PS2. When I considered getting a console, my friends all said "Go XBox. You like RPGs, dude."
As a matter of quantity, your friends had no clue what they were talking about. Look at this list, then look at this and this.
Yes, the PS/PS2 lists have some duplicates and games that were never translated, but i'd say they have easily twice as many RPG's available as the Xbox, if not more. Heck, you'd probably even be better off buying a GBA or a Cube for RPG's.