Time With The Revolution

Drawing specious conclusions... by Quarters · 2006-03-10 05:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

Just because Nintendo made a low-cost controller dev kit by interfacing their new controller technology to their existing hardware doesn't mean that you can infer that the Revolution will be built on Gamecube hardware. All you can infer is that Nintendo has possibly made their prototype Revolution controller a derivative so that current Gamecube developers can explore the new controller paradigm without having to either buy, or wait, for the new Revolution dev kits.

Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by gEvil+(beta) · 2006-03-10 05:15 · Score: 4, Informative

First, they're saying that developers can use the Revolution controller devkit with the GameCube devkit. Also, it's been mentioned several times in the past (no links handy) that the Revolution will in essence be an evolution of the GameCube hardware.

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Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by lion2 · 2006-03-10 05:31 · Score: 1

The Revolution has to have hardware that's similar to the gamecube. I don't think nintendo is going to go the software route when it comes to emulating the gamecube, or else they'll have the exact same problems that microsoft is having with their emulation.

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Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by TeamSPAM · 2006-03-10 05:37 · Score: 2, Insightful
I'm a bit of a nintendo fanboy and look forward to the Revolution coming out. The article may be jumping to conclusions, but they may not be that far off. Does it really matter if the Revolutions is just an updated GC? Other than the new controllers, Nintendo is just intergrating alot of existing technology.
- Wireless controllers rock. I think this technology is mature and cheap enough to build it in.
- Ethernet adapters. When the GC came out, I don't think the market was ready for online consoles. The Xbox changed that, just throw the ethernet chipset in and be done.
- Cell Processor. The GC was already using a PowerPC chip, it'll just have one that is going to be about 5x faster.
- Same thing with the video chipset. They market has moved forward, take something off the shelf and keep moving. While no HD resolutions may be a drawback. Nintendo isn't about pushing more polygons on your screen, they are about making fun games.
I think if they can keep the core of the Revolution similar to the GC, then Nintendo might get third party developers on board a bit easier. They're keeping the learning curve low.
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Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by lurker4hire · 2006-03-10 05:40 · Score: 2, Insightful

Actually not really, since the GC CPU is already PowerPC, and IBM is making a new, presumably multicore, powerpc cpu for revolution.

MS needed to emulate intel on powerpc, which is a much harder proposition.

l4h
Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by chrismcdirty · 2006-03-10 05:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

I would assume that since [presumably] it's a multicore, PPC CPU, it would be capable of running, in hardware, instructions designed for a PPC CPU on the same evolutionary line.

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Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 05:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

"While no HD resolutions may be a drawback. Nintendo isn't about pushing more polygons on your screen, they are about making fun games."

While I'm not saying Nintendo is all about the graphics, the fact that they don't support/require HD means the Revolution can output significantly more polygons per frame - it's not going to be spending all its power creating higher resolutions that won't even be used by most setups.
Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by lion2 · 2006-03-10 05:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yeah but the Xbox 360 also has the difficult task of emulating a different graphics chipset. If Nintendo wants to keep costs down and compatibility up then the Revolution graphics chip must be based on the gamecube's. Microsoft had no choice but to use a software solution since they did not own the rights to the Xbox graphics chip. Adding the xbox graphics hardware to the 360 would make the system even more expensive. Nintendo is still working with ATI so they wont have the legal issues that Microsoft had with Nvidia.

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Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 05:58 · Score: 0

The Revolution will be a more powerful system than the Xbox 360 with the one exception of higher than 480p support.

The CPU in the Revolution is going to more powerful than 360's 'whatever IBM had lying around chip' that Microsoft got when they dumped Intel and turned to IBM in a panic.

The 360's CPU is a mess. But it did function as an effective marketing bullet point for the small but very hardcore Xbox crowd who live for specs with high numbers. Unfortuneately for Microsoft the chip runs code roughly around the same level of performance as a 2ghz 970 chip.

The Rev's PPC CPU will be somewhat more powerful but still nowhere in the performance range of the PS3's Broadband Engine.

The ATI graphics system in the Revolution is going to be at least an entire year more mature than the botched, the too small 10meg EDRAM being the main culprit, one in the 360.

The GameCube/Xbox and Revolution/360 are a lot like to kids who are asked about how tall they are:

The Xbox/360 loves to claim that they are 'almost 7 feet tall'
The GC/Rev doesn't really care and just says 'around 6 feet'

In reality the GC/Rev is about 6'4" and the Xbox/360 is about 6'2"

The Rev will come out with games that look as good or better than the 360. And I'm sure that Xbox owners will still claim their system is X times more powerful than the Rev.

Same as last gen.
Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 06:10 · Score: 0

"Yeah but the Xbox 360 also has the difficult task of emulating a different graphics chipset."

I don't know how the hell Microsoft has become the benchmark for what is and isn't possible/easy in console hardware design.

The people who built the Xbox and the Xbox 360 are idiots. There is no gentler way to put it.

Emulation of older and very different hardware is no big deal if you are even a slightly competent hardware manufacturer that:

1) Doesn't do something stupid like making all of your games tied to a large piece of expensive fixed price hardware like, say, a harddrive.

2) Doesn't do something stupid like bolting another company's desktop pc graphics card to your system.

3) Doesn't try to get away with not supporting BC and then have to scramble at the last minute essentially porting your entire library of games to a new architecture at a binary level.

It's no accident Microsoft has lost 4-7 billion dollars to secure last place in the console market.
Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by Breakfast+Pants · 2006-03-10 06:39 · Score: 1

Exactly, and as we now know, people working on XBox 360 titles already realised this and they are upsampling to HD on many games that are in the works and some that are out now (Project Gotham), albeit from slightly higher than standard def. I think the whole HD support is a ploy and when the PS3 is released they will begin to do all games in the "slightly higher than standard def, upscaled to high def" style to compete on graphics in the vast majority of the market: standard def.

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Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 06:47 · Score: 0

Yep.

That is why there is such a disparity between the highrez marketing shots that most of 360 games love to show and the low rez/jaggy/30fps reality of the shipping 360 games.

Part of the reason is Microsoft marketing HD when their console really isn't powerful enough to support most games at a decent frame rate at those resolutions.

And part of it is the fact that the bulk of Xbox developers are pc developers who are use to having people go out and buy faster/larger hardware to compensate for their lack of ability to write tight code for a specific hardware target.

You can really feel the looming shadow of the PS3 on 360 developers where there seems to be an almost desperation to prove the 360 hardware is just as powerful. No matter what they have to do to give that impression to Xbox owners throught bogus high rez marketing shots, under rez frame buffers, sub 30fps refresh rates, and so on.
Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by lion2 · 2006-03-10 07:15 · Score: 1

"I don't know how the hell Microsoft has become the benchmark for what is and isn't possible/easy in console hardware design." Who said they were? "Emulation of older and very different hardware is no big deal if you are even a slightly competent hardware manufacturer that: 1) Doesn't do something stupid like making all of your games tied to a large piece of expensive fixed price hardware like, say, a harddrive. 2) Doesn't do something stupid like bolting another company's desktop pc graphics card to your system. 3) Doesn't try to get away with not supporting BC and then have to scramble at the last minute essentially porting your entire library of games to a new architecture at a binary level. It's no accident Microsoft has lost 4-7 billion dollars to secure last place in the console market." Thanks for proving my point.

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Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by lion2 · 2006-03-10 07:18 · Score: 1

"I don't know how the hell Microsoft has become the benchmark for what is and isn't possible/easy in console hardware design."

Who said they were?

"Emulation of older and very different hardware is no big deal if you are even a slightly competent hardware manufacturer that:

1) Doesn't do something stupid like making all of your games tied to a large piece of expensive fixed price hardware like, say, a harddrive.

2) Doesn't do something stupid like bolting another company's desktop pc graphics card to your system.

3) Doesn't try to get away with not supporting BC and then have to scramble at the last minute essentially porting your entire library of games to a new architecture at a binary level.

It's no accident Microsoft has lost 4-7 billion dollars to secure last place in the console market."

Thanks for proving my point.

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Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 07:31 · Score: 0

You:

"Yeah but the Xbox 360 also has the difficult task of emulating a different graphics chipset. "

Writing "Thanks for proving my point." in bold doesn't make your claim any less stupid.

There was nothing 'difficult' about the task of emulating the original Xbox hardware in the 360. The fact that Microsoft lacks the competency to do so is of no bearing on the difficulty of the task.
Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by Jacius · 2006-03-10 09:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

the Revolution will in essence be an evolution of the GameCube hardware.

For the armchair developers out there, this is a good thing. The more similarity between the Gamecube and the Revolution in terms of architecture, the more quickly development studios can get the hang of it and start putting out some really interesting games.

Every time a new console with a different architecture comes out, the studios have to start back at square one, and learn the intricacies of the new hardware. After a couple years of working with the system, the studio has built up their own custom library/engine to handle the basics, and they have learned several tricks for squeezing that extra "oomph" out of the hardware. This is why games that come out several years after the console often look, sound, and feel much better than lauch titles, even though they are using the exact same hardware. Compare, for example, Ocarina of Time with Majora's Mask on the N64: They both use the same hardware, and MM is obviously based on OoT's engine. But because MM didn't have to reinvent the wheel, the developers were freed to create an intriguing, even beautiful, experience.

So if the Revolution's architecture is mostly a beefed-up Gamecube, studios should be able to quickly adapt their libraries to work on the Revolution, so they can spend less time worrying about memory management and polygon-pushing, and more time creating interesting ways to use the new controller. Nintendo, by using the Gamecube architecture as a base, has essentially given studios 5 retroactive years of experience with the Revolution devkits, and the launch titles should be must more interesting as a result.
Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by shoptroll · 2006-03-10 09:24 · Score: 1

Actually its a well established fact by Nintendo that the current kits are modded GCN dev kits. I can't remember any of the press releases/hype machines that have been issued so far but this isn't something IGN is pulling out of their a** (for once).

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Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by KDR_11k · 2006-03-10 09:28 · Score: 1

Part of the reason is Microsoft marketing HD when their console really isn't powerful enough to support most games at a decent frame rate at those resolutions.

It depends on the game. A GeForce 256 can run many games on HDTV resolutions without slowdown, you just have to take older games. If the devs on the XCircle are too stupid to lower the game's ressource usage enough to avoid framerate drops in HD that's not Microsoft's fault.

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Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by lion2 · 2006-03-10 10:24 · Score: 1

I'll be waiting for you Xbox emulator.

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Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 17:03 · Score: 0

Was the swipe at IGN really necessary?
Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 17:03 · Score: 0

You mean the PC?
Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by mausmalone · 2006-03-10 17:23 · Score: 1

First, they're saying that developers can use the Revolution controller devkit with the GameCube devkit. Also, it's been mentioned several times in the past (no links handy) that the Revolution will in essence be an evolution of the GameCube hardware.

It's also not a finished controller. And at $2000 per dev kit + game licensing fees, they can afford to make a cross platform SDK.

Also, nobody at Nintendo has said that the Revolution will be an evolution of GCN hardware. It probably will be, but nobody knows if it's an incremental evolution, or an evolution like comparing the Pentium II to a 80486.

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Game formats by DumbWhiteGuy777 · 2006-03-10 05:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

Isn't the Revolution going to be backwards compatible with GC games?

Now that I think of it, what format are Revolution games going to be in? Certainly they won't use the mini-discs again.

Re:Game formats by RyoShin · 2006-03-10 05:09 · Score: 1

The Revolution will be using regular sized CDs (with some form of DVD for storage, I think.) Supposedly it will have the ability to do DVD playback, but not out of the box. The regular thought is that it's activated either with a special remote controller, or you buy a small device that plugs into the system somewhere to activate DVD playback.
Re:Game formats by NekoXP · 2006-03-10 05:11 · Score: 5, Informative

The Nintendo GC disk format is basically MiniDVD with a few tweaks and a larger inner circle (so it starts a little further in and ordinary drives can't find start of disc). The Revolution format is going to be DVD sized, exactly the same format.

Nunchuck, Wand, and Controller by WillAffleckUW · 2006-03-10 05:15 · Score: 3, Funny

Yup, it's going to be a sweet gaming system to play

Dance Dance Revolution Ultima

Star Wars: Jedi Academy Training

any interactive FPS (especially if they shoot back and you have a blink target vest)

and Katamari: We Meant It, You Must Roll!

[game names all examples, yes I own Konami stock and they have plans to do fun things for the Revolution, it's called disclosure]

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Re:Nunchuck, Wand, and Controller by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 17:35 · Score: 0

"...yes I own Konami stock and they have plans to do fun things for the Revolution, it's called disclosure"
You are making a fool of yourself. Nobody care what fucking stocks you own. Yes we know you own MSFT, yes we know you own Konami. Go look up "disclosure". Stop mentioning your stock and your valuation every fucking post. You're like a 12 year old who has to work his new savings account into every conversation.

get it right by MorderVonAllem · 2006-03-10 05:15 · Score: 5, Informative

"IGN managed to get their hands on a Revolution Developer's Kit, and have put up a tantalizing hands-on impressions article."

no...they go their hands on a Controller Kit, not a Developer's Kit. This kit was basically just to let developers know what kind of controller they'd be using when developing for the Revolution. That way they can start brainstorming now about possible titles that can utilize the controller while working with hardware they're already familiar with...

Re:get it right by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 05:53 · Score: 1, Insightful

Not only that but they could also quickly port an existing game over to the new control set-up to see how it works before they spend millions of dollars developing a next generation game. If you're UBI-soft do you want to get the Revolution Dev-kit, spend a month porting your engine to the Revolution, wait for new content to be at a level to do an appropriate play test (which could take months), or would you want to plug in the controller and have your team port XIII's controls to the device and start playtesting your setup in a little over a week?

(Although XIII was a pretty crappy game, it would work well as a test for a FPS because it maintained pretty standard FPS controls and suffered [more than most] for this inelegant control setup)

that's ridiculous by egomaniac · 2006-03-10 05:16 · Score: 4, Interesting

Nintendo made the controller available to game studios so they could start thinking about how to use it to develop games. Given that the controller is (by far) the most important change in Revolution, it's also the most important thing for studios to come to grips with.

"Oh, and it's also five times as powerful as the GameCube" is also important, but not necessarily something that studios need to experience firsthand at this particular stage of the game. That will come when the hardware is ready. At this point Nintendo is (quite sensibly) concentrating on getting the controller right, because if that doesn't fly, the whole concept is shot.

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Re:that's ridiculous by C0rinthian · 2006-03-10 05:23 · Score: 2, Funny

Given that the controller is (by far) the most important change in Revolution, it's also the most important thing for studios to come to grips with.
*Rimshot*
Re:that's ridiculous by interiot · 2006-03-10 05:28 · Score: 3, Funny

In Soviet Russia, Revolution controller strokes ... no, that's not right. Lord, I apologize, and save all the starving pigmies in New Guinea.
Re:that's ridiculous by B00yah · 2006-03-10 05:47 · Score: 1

actually, FTFA:

Studio sources regularly reiterate previously reported projections that the hardware will be roughly twice as powerful as GameCube.

So yea,twice as powerful. Still good though.

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Microsoft Odd Console Out? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 05:19 · Score: 0

People seem to be in a fevor pitch about the Revolution and PS3, one has to wonder what is going to happen to the Xbox 360. Only a little more than a million have been sold and almost all of the big name games for the console have better pc versions of its games coming out.

Everything seems to be about Nintendo and Sony now. It sounds like everyone has forgotten about the 360 already.

Re:Microsoft Odd Console Out? by Headcase88 · 2006-03-10 05:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

"People seem to be in a fevor pitch about the Revolution and PS3, one has to wonder what is going to happen to the Xbox 360. Only a little more than a million have been sold and almost all of the big name games for the console have better pc versions of its games coming out."

Replace "XBox 360" with "Nintendo DS", "Revolution and PS3" with "PSP", and "pc" with "console", and you're getting pretty close to the general feelings of the DS when it launched.

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Re:Microsoft Odd Console Out? by Traiklin · 2006-03-10 05:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

that is what microsofts problem is, they made a PC into a Console, what Microsoft needs to do is try and get games to be truely exclusive to the system, no more PC releases of a game (or atleast try to get a years worth of exclusivity that way people don't say "I'll get the PC version").

Sony & Nintendo have games that would be alittle hard to play with a keyboard and mouse, Microsoft has to many games that could easily be played with a keyboard and mouse (and in some cases play BETTER with a keyboard and mouse).

now I wouldn't count Microsoft out just yet but they did pick a bad time to release the 360 (no one was ready for it, not even microsoft), game publishers are losing money on it, microsoft is losing money on it and everyone who want's one is having a hard time getting one. If they had just waited to start making the system now and release it this winter they would of been in a much better standing (cause you know Sony is going to wait till the last possible minute to start manufacturing PS3's which will result in a massive shortage just like Miscrosoft with the 360) and it will give whomever decides to make a system EASY to make (aka Nintendo) a major advantage cause they can make them in no time cause it's not filled with tons of crap people propably could careless about.

when the PS3 and Revolution comes out Microsoft will have a hard time if they are still having trouble making the 360, Nintendo though might have the advantage, you KNOW there is going to be a shortage of PS3's when it's released (that's a given, after the PS2 that is the trend they will go) and if Microsoft is in the same boat they are in now (problems making the 360) then Nintendo will be the only one there easily for parents to pick up during the holiday season.
Re:Microsoft Odd Console Out? by AuMatar · 2006-03-10 06:20 · Score: 1

I don't know many people excited about the PSP. I know a lot of people who were keyed up about the DS (including myself).

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Re:Microsoft Odd Console Out? by Guppy06 · 2006-03-10 06:25 · Score: 1

Except that the Xbox 360 is essentially "more of the same" while the DS was designed to be anything but.
Re:Microsoft Odd Console Out? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 06:44 · Score: 1, Interesting

Nintendo DS is a totally new experience compared to its predecessors. Most people leading up to launch had to experience this for themselves before understanding the fact, but now they get it. (Witness that although the original DS launch was very highly anticipated in Japan after they got the preview news of the U.S. launch models, popularity only grew with time: The DS has on several occasions completely sold out in that country, the limited edition Nintendogs bundles are already highly valued as collectibles here in the U.S., and the DS Lite launch was one of the most successful in recent years.) The DS was followed by another system that was an evolution of past ideas, not of the new ones that the DS pioneered in this space. Therefore, it remains relevant (and is thriving to this day, keeping the attention of publishers, game players, and the media).

Xbox 360 is a slight evolution from its predecessors. Most people are blind to that fact because MS are good spin doctors. It will be followed soon by another system that is more like it than not, and yet another system that is even greater of a thought shift than the DS is, relative to their respective competitors. There are few solid advantages to the Xbox 360 that won't also be had (or surpassed) by these competitors. That, coupled with lower-than-expected sales (for ANY reason you want to attribute it) and a too-early launch, has pushed Xbox 360 into "we already know about this, so what's next" territory. Publishers are playing the waiting game, as evidenced by the low number of titles yet available for the 360, particularly because hardware penetration is so low and development costs are so high. Game players aren't buying 360s (because they can't or because they don't want to is a question Microsoft will never let history answer). And the media is all too happy to ride the wave of interest in what's next at the sacrifice of what people can't and/or won't buy. I think that's what the OP is concerned about. If people aren't talking your product in the game industry, it may as well not exist.
Re:Microsoft Odd Console Out? by G-funk · 2006-03-10 18:47 · Score: 1

Replace "XBox 360" with "Nintendo DS", "Revolution and PS3" with "PSP"

So, the 360 is going to eat them both for breakfast you mean?

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Sensor bar? by RyoShin · 2006-03-10 05:20 · Score: 3, Interesting

I was under the impression that the spacial recognition sensors were two distinct items placed at certain paces from the TV. However, one stationary bar (with the sensors on either end) makes a lot more sense, as you don't have to worry as much about calibration. It would then be a question of where it is in relation to the TV. (On the floor in front of, on top of the TV, right below the TV, etc.)

Where are our pictures? All we have is a promotional side-by-side and an 'artists rendition'. If they went hands on, why not snap a few pictures, even if the tools aren't the final versions? I suppose they could have gotten some developer's janitor to let them in late at night to play with these (and didn't want to blow his cover), but the article is kind of worthless without pictures. "We got some prototypes. They don't plug into the actual hardware, we couldn't do anything with them, and we have no pictures." The only useful piece of information, IMO, was the size in relation to the GCN controller. (And even then, didn't they get a chance to go hands on with it back at E3 '05? Unless major changes happened, they should already know the relative sizes then, right?)

Re:Sensor bar? by NekoXP · 2006-03-10 05:38 · Score: 1

It's called a Non-Disclosure Agreement.
Re:Sensor bar? by interiot · 2006-03-10 05:50 · Score: 2, Interesting

We have pictures of the LCD TopGun third-party controller (see the bottom third of the page), which gives you a quick idea of how it might look, at least. Though Nintendo has said it will only be a single sensor bar, with two (three?) sensors on it, so hopefully it will be moderately less intrusive than the LCD TopGun.
Re:Sensor bar? by LnxAddct · 2006-03-10 06:37 · Score: 1

Technically if they just threw two 3D accelerometers in the ends of the controller, they could get all the same information that they can using two external sensors. The only additional information they'll be able to obtain with external sensors is an exact point in relation the sensors, but thats only if the hardware knows exactly where the sensors are and even then,the information isn't that important (nobody will probably position it right). All you need is acceleration readings and everything else can be calculated, just assume the initial holding spot is the origin. Orientation, velocity, position etc... can all be calculated for 3 space. I'd imagine that the reason they're using an external wand with two sensors is a) for size b) battery life. Using the external sensors requires the controllers to simply output two low power time-encoded signals for position tracking, which means the battery life is going to be ridiculously long. I can see some other benefits too, like assuming the wand is, for all intents and purposes, at the same distance as the TV, you can know how far a player is, but for most games I'd imagine movement is all relative and not dependant on some predefined point.
Regards,
Steve
Re:Sensor bar? by Taboam · 2006-03-10 07:02 · Score: 1

for more accurate aiming the revolution is using an (IR?) sensor.
Re:Sensor bar? by Shrubbman · 2006-03-10 10:48 · Score: 1

Aw yeah, a few rounds of old school Duck Hunt with that thing'll be sweet ;')
Re:Sensor bar? by kaiser423 · 2006-03-10 11:55 · Score: 2, Interesting

Well, technically yes, but practically no.

Accelerometers drift. They are not perfect devices. They produce integration error, and that would become very large over the course of a gaming session. The controllers would become unusable after an hour or so and need to be re-calibrated. You can buy some amazingly accurate accelerometers, but they're expensive, very finicky and you have to do your design 100% perfectly, and you can't tolerate a single error. It is a serious PITA to design a system to do this, and probably nearly impossible to do it cheaply, and do it such that mass manufacturing in China with only ok quality control won't produce flaky units.

Put in a couple of sensors on a bar to re-zero the accelerometers integration error transparently every now and then, and now you have a very robust system that's easy to design, cheap, simple and pretty fail-safe.

Which would you choose?

I don't care... by MaestroSartori · 2006-03-10 05:22 · Score: 2, Interesting

...until I see it actually being used in games. Until then, it's a cool idea with absolutely no proof of how well or badly it works, and everything else anyone says is just uninformed speculation (from people who haven't played a game with it) or hype (from people who are developing a game with it).

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Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by MorderVonAllem · 2006-03-10 05:25 · Score: 1

Give it up, Nintendo is like apple. It may not have a lion's share, but it will remain. Besides, Sony and Microsoft have NOTHING on the handheld market (PSP doesn't count as it's not a game system, it's a PDA). That and Nintendo has a very hardcore following. Myself included.

Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by PhoenixFlare · 2006-03-10 05:26 · Score: 1

Yeah, because Nintendo did so horribly with the Gamecube, making a profit and all. Not to mention the fact that they still have near-total dominance of the hand-held market.

People have been saying "Nintendo will die!" in various forms for years now, and it still hasn't happened. Perhaps you could actually explain why you think it's going to happen now?

Old by vitaflo · 2006-03-10 05:32 · Score: 4, Informative

The dev kits they saw were old. According to Reggie Fils-Aime (Nintendo VP of Sales) there have been 3 different revisions of the Rev dev kit so far. They are:

1) A GameCube console with a wired Revolution controller attached
2) Similar to the above, but with a few minor tweaks, and boosted CPU power
3) Wireless controllers, more complete hardware

A fourth dev kit is expected soon that will be 90-95% of the finished product. So whatever they saw, if it had wired controllers, it's already out of date.

Re:Old by rohlfinator · 2006-03-10 06:39 · Score: 2, Interesting

Nintendo most likely has a tiered distribution plan for development hardware: Big studios like EA, Ubisoft, and Capcom probably received these "controller dev kits" a long time ago, when smaller studios had nothing. Once Nintendo revised the hardware, the big studios traded their models in for newer ones, and Nintendo passed the smaller dev kits out to slightly smaller developers, repeating the process several times over the course of the year.

Currently, the biggest dev houses likely have the most complete hardware, while others have some lesser version of it, depending on their influence, importance to Nintendo, and level of commitment to the platform. At this point, the developers who still have "controller dev kits" are probably the smaller ones who have shown less interest in the Revolution, but are still curious about it. It's entirely possible that this was the newest hardware at the studio IGN visited.

Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by chrismcdirty · 2006-03-10 05:36 · Score: 1

I believe NetCraft may have confirmed it, at one point in time ;)

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Skins for the Wand? by rewinn · 2006-03-10 05:36 · Score: 2, Funny

Think of the possibilities. Nintendo may open a whole new genre of x-rated games.

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Re:Skins for the Wand? by WillAffleckUW · 2006-03-10 06:18 · Score: 1

I don't think you'll be seeing official Nintendo wands that do that, but I'm sure someone will be selling them.

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Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 05:39 · Score: 0

The only reason I don't consider Nintendo like Apple is that Nintendo doesn't gouge it's customers.

Whats wrong with the hardware? by panic911 · 2006-03-10 05:42 · Score: 1

The gamecube hardware wasn't bad, they just didn't have any very appealing games. Nintendo has definitely taken a new look at their software and I think their next system is going to blow away the Gamecube (same hardware or not). They have announced a lot of very cool looking games for all of their systems, recently, so I think they're taking a step forward (or backwards, in a way) when it comes to games, and are going to make a new name for themselves.

Re:Whats wrong with the hardware? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 13:00 · Score: 0

Whereas it's relatively easy with hardware to make comparisons and declare the superior design decisions, with software it's far more subjective. In my opinion, the GameCube has exclusives that I would have sorely missed had I not purchased one. Add in the fact that I have the ability to play ports of games that look much better than if I had bought them on the PS2, and I consider the GameCube essential.

(I've always wondered about those people who talk about "dusting off" their GameCubes when the "occasional" GameCube game gets released - are these people buying the PS2 ports of games that are released for both consoles, or what? The GameCube has a very healthy library when you consider that it includes many superior versions of multi-platform games.)

Anyway, I agree that Nintendo is going to make a new name for themselves, but I think their approach is going to be akin to their approach with the DS: Make sure that developers know how great of an opportunity they now have to use the new hardware as a device to enable brand new, crazy ideas, and then let them go wild with it. That kind of energy will translate into renewed interest from the public, who will reward the publishers with sales. It's why DS software is such a lucrative market, and I think Revolution will spark the same reactions from developers and gamers who are just yearning to be excited to play video games again.

BTW, I wouldn't expect the Revolution to be just a slim GameCube with a few new features. It is going to be considerably more powerful than the GameCube, even if just for the reason that developers keep making the nebulous claim that it will be "twice as powerful," which could mean anything. (Funniest, stupidest comment I keep reading about Revolution: "Only twice as powerful?") I know that the Xbox 360 games I've played don't look, control, or sound "twice" as good as most GameCube games, whatever the heck that's even supposed to mean. I'm not having twice the fun, that's for sure, even though an Xbox 360 is over twice the price of a brand new GameCube (over 3x-4x as much, actually).

Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2006-03-10 05:46 · Score: 2, Funny

"Should be interesting to play with but I think that Microsoft and Sony are going to put Nintendo out of biz with the next gen consules. "

Considering how expensive the XBOX 360 is, I suppose in a weird Harry Potter'esque way I could see people running out of money before they could buy any Nintendo products.

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DDRR? by Langfat · 2006-03-10 05:47 · Score: 3, Funny

don't you mean dance dance revolution Revolution?

Re:DDRR? by chrismcdirty · 2006-03-10 05:51 · Score: 3, Funny

I prefer to call it Dance^2 Revolution^2

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Re:DDRR? by LoverOfJoy · 2006-03-10 06:20 · Score: 3, Funny

R2D2?
Re:DDRR? by chrismcdirty · 2006-03-10 07:07 · Score: 1

You fail for not understanding the difference between multiplication and exponentiation. I would have accepted, (DR)^2 or (Dance Revolution)^2, though.

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Re:DDRR? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 07:31 · Score: 0

Dance Dance 2(Dance Revolution) Revolution Revolution?
Re:DDRR? by WillAffleckUW · 2006-03-10 11:57 · Score: 1

why not Dance Two The Revolution? D2TR

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Re:DDRR? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 12:06 · Score: 0

Revolution Dance Revolution Remix

or RDRR.

yea, yea, I'm really stretching it to work in some kind of Simpsons reference.

I'm skilled enough at wasting time w/o this trash by Headcase88 · 2006-03-10 05:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

Which is why this article is so worthless.

"Uh, we agreed not to take pictues, but, like, it's 'surprisingly' smaller than we expected. So, you know, in case you didn't see all those pictures at E3 showing it being held by hands, this article might be worth a shit".

But since it's about the Revo and they use the term "hands-on", every gaming blog in the Universe has to link to it and give IGN undeserved ad revenue.

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If it's using a Sensor bar? by rsilvergun · 2006-03-10 06:07 · Score: 1

or what not is it going to be a problem for older (i.e. taller) gamers? My bro got that Jedi Traing Ball tv game for X-Mas (huge starwars fan) and he can't really play it because it's calibrated for kids, and he just doesn't fit into it's field of vision.

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Re:If it's using a Sensor bar? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 06:37 · Score: 0

It works like GPS, not like the powerglove.

Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by nasch · 2006-03-10 06:26 · Score: 1

PSP is a PDA? People use it for the calendar, email, alarm clock, web browsing, mobile office apps, as well as games and multimedia? All that PDA stuff like you would do with an iPAQ?

Git 'Er Done! by RM6f9 · 2006-03-10 06:26 · Score: 1

I'd've modded you funny if I had any points - nice combination.

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Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by MorderVonAllem · 2006-03-10 06:47 · Score: 2, Funny

Just because an IPaq can't do these things doesn't mean the PSP not a PDA. It's just the PSP is a powerful PDA that just happens to play games.

I take that back, the PSP is not a PDA, it's just an emulator for the SNES that happens to have PDA functionality. There are so few games for the PSP it's not even funny...and given the sales data from http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=6110... it's not doing too well against two of the same machine. (In Japan)

Bring back the '80's by OldManAndTheC++ · 2006-03-10 06:48 · Score: 3, Funny

Time With The Revolution

Thats shows how old I am - I saw that headline and immediately thought that Morris Day was getting back together with Prince!.

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Re:Bring back the '80's by DarkHelmet · 2006-03-10 11:13 · Score: 1

Either that, or you watch Chappelle's Show.

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Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by nasch · 2006-03-10 07:30 · Score: 1

What is it about the PSP that makes it a PDA? It can play movies? What do you consider "PDA functionality"? Do you think business people would be satisfied to switch from a Blackberry to a PSP?

Xbox is cannibalizing DirectX by tepples · 2006-03-10 08:23 · Score: 1

what Microsoft needs to do is try and get games to be truely exclusive to the system, no more PC releases of a game

Which would help kill the market for Microsoft Windows, as once all big-budget games move to the consoles[1], people would start buying more Macintosh computers and building more Linux or FreeBSD machines to use as home workstations because they don't have to worry about Windows-exclusive games anymore.

[1] Don't object about poor FPS/RTS control. The Nintendo DS has a touch screen, the Revolution has a motion-sensitive remote, and the PS3 and Xbox 360 have a USB port for connecting a mouse.

Re:Xbox is cannibalizing DirectX by KDR_11k · 2006-03-10 09:42 · Score: 1

Not all PC games can be moved to the console instead and I think he didn't even mean all where that is possible, just a significant number so a list of "must have" Xbox titles doesn't read like a list of "must have" PC titles. Things like Fable and KOTOR appearing on the PC shouldn't happen if MS wants to give people a reason to buy the XCircle. These days people see an interesting game on the XBox and wait for the port to their console or PC instead of considering a purchase of the console. If MS wants to succeed they must make sure that console games stay on the console and PC games stay on the PC, that way people who own one have a reason to buy the other.

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Good! by richman555 · 2006-03-10 09:03 · Score: 0, Offtopic

The Gamecube had excellent graphics!

Re:I'm skilled enough at wasting time w/o this tra by NekoXP · 2006-03-10 09:21 · Score: 1

It is a dumb article.

But the IGN Revolution site is so low on news and content I think they are grabbing at straws.

One thing about the hands though; anyone who remembers the original Xbox controllers will know that the size of hands varies quite a bit! Comparing it to the Gamecube controller is maybe the only solid bit of useful information..

Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by MorderVonAllem · 2006-03-10 10:07 · Score: 1

I am not saying business people would buy it, but when the item in question has more functionality related to business or non-game related software...then it ceases to become a gaming machine and more of a computer, and most handheld computers are called PDA's.

Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by Anonymous Coward · 2006-03-10 10:27 · Score: 0

This is the dumbest comment thread I've seen.

The PSP is a PDA? It can't do MOST of the things even the most basic PDA can do. If you think the PSP can function as a PDA you've either never touched a PSP or never touched a PDA.

and as for not having any games, the problem is the same thing the PS2 suffered from. Sony has a history of not having large enough launch libraries. With the PS2 however, you had backwards compatability that you don't have with the PSP; also with the PS2 third party developers jumped on it as soon as they were able, while the handheld market is EXTREMELY difficult to develop and sell for; as well as the work having a stigma of just being a "handheld."

Nintendo already ruled the handheld market before the DS came out. Longstanding ties with developers ensured a much more larger launch base.

Also, how many games do you need to be satisfied?

I personally have a ton of SNES games on mine (you seem to belittle it for this), as well as SCRUMM Lucas-Arts games.

Besides those, Liberty City Stories is top notch, as is SOCOM, Metal Gear Acid, Burnout, Lumines and Wipeout. Splinter Cell comes out next week, as does Metal Gear Acid 2.

The library is small, and expanding slower than what is probably healthy, but it's picking up.

The Revolution IS an evolution of the Gamecube by Akaihiryuu · 2006-03-10 10:42 · Score: 1

...however, this does not mean that it won't be a lot more powerful. The Pentium Pro is an evolution of the 386. It just means the architecture is similar, only the Revolution has newer, much faster components and a lot more RAM. It will probably be very easy to work with for those familiar with the Gamecube.

Hands on? by paullyjunge · 2006-03-10 11:39 · Score: 1

We were disappointingly unable to test any software with the development controller.

How exactly is this a hands on? If you just look at something, its a hands-on? If I sit in a car and get out of it without turning on the engine, did I take it for a test drive? Way to increase traffic IGN!

And you don't pay attention by aitikin · 2006-03-10 13:36 · Score: 3, Interesting

IGN used it already, about 7 months ago. They found it to be quite responsive, although they were only working with tests and what seemed to be an alpha version of Metroid Prime 3, but they were quite impressed with it.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html

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Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by justchris · 2006-03-10 17:56 · Score: 1

The DS actually had fewer launch games than the PSP.

The determination of how many games is enough games varies from person to person. As a person who currently owns 20 games for the DS, the PSP has too few games for me. However, for most normal people, the number of games in the PSP's game library is more than sufficient. Most people complain about the quality of the games, not the number.

Personally, I think the quality of PSP titles available are just fine, and I don't think anyone would comment on it, if it weren't for the fact that 75% of the software library for the DS isn't just good, it's damn near perfect. Had the DS not been released around the same time as the PSP, the PSP would be doing quite well right now.

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