How well did ham radio do for power? In NYC, not as well as we would have liked
NYC ARES normally has use of up to 12 "Tac" repeaters, with "Tac 2" being our main repeater. Well, we found out something "interesting" - Tac 2 has no emergency power!
It ended up (In the city proper) that 2 of our Tac repeaters stay up, and had NO problems with power. There was another repeater in a better location than the two afore mentioned TACS that was up on emergency power, and we asked the trustee of that repeater if we could use it. We could, and did. We effectively took that repeater over until late Saturday. Yep, there were still folks without WATER Saturday afternoon, as the pumps in their buildings did not come up when the power came on
I know at least 3 of the Repeater trustees are looking into new emergency power equipment
That said, even without the repeaters, we would have gotten the job done. It would have been harder. Someone with a low wattage HT could not have talked directly across the city (remember, it's 40 or so miles from one corner to another), but we would have relayed the messages - we call it 'Passing Traffic', and we practice it
Most of the folks in ARES itself have enough battery backup that we didn't even get worried. Personally, I have something like 225 Ah (Yes AmpHours - not milliampHours) of batteries that stay on charge (used to have more, but I toasted 2 cells when a charger blew). I never even got the FIRST 90 Ah SLA to the point where I would have had to switch over - in fact, I never even came close.
So how did we do for power? Well enough to get the job done, not as well as we would have liked. As we do our post deployment assesments, we'll figure out what went right, and wrong (wrong is more important), and try to correct those problems. Remember BTW that all this gear comes out of our own pockets, with NO cost to the folks who use our services
Right - and the hams are going to invest thousands of dollars for their own gear, and NOT be able to use it except in an emergency, PLUS they won't be able to train with that gear
Yeah, that makes sense - learn to do something in an emergency situation, instead of working public service events year round, and training "nets" every week.
Your also only thinking blackouts. When they have forest fires out west - how do they do the long haul radio comms? Yep, hams on HF. When there is a hurricane, how do the storm spotting reports come in - Hams on HF - AGAIN. When The shuttle broke up over Texas, what did NASA and the local PDs find was the ONLY thing that worked out in the rural areas. You guessed it - Hams. When they need to do GIS data logging, what did they use? Hams running a mode called APRS
Ok folks I've wired power panels in residential situations. I have NO unreasonable fear of electricity. I used to work professionally in HEAVY duty power electronics (Multiple 10s of KW UPS systems). I've worked on 400Hz AC Power supplies (Hurts more than the 60Hz stuff). I've been zapped by 220 3phase more times than I care to remember, and even 400 volts DC. I used to have lockout tags. At one point I even used to do wiring that required an electrician to sign off on my work, and never had to change anything
As MANY other folks pointed out - the reason for the approval process, and the MD prescription is simple:
Now that is no longer "experimental", but an FDA approved treatment, Many, if not most insurance companies will pay for it
Now, if you thing 20 or even 30k is expensive in the medical field, you haven't had to have surgery lately. If I remember right, the "Offical" bill for my Son's birth (totally normal - no C section, no complications) was in the 30k-40k range. Of course, with the deductable, etc, it cost us $10
Yep, designing "stuff" to work out in the field is hard.
WAY back when, starting during the Summer between HS and college, and continuing through college, I worked building and putting up crane systems. You know, the kind that looks like a moving bridge that you see in movies all the time
Man, that job was rough on men and equipment. The joke is, as rough as that job was, my next job required me to build stuff for the military. There is an expression - "Grunt Proof". The average "Grunt" is a heck of a lot smarter than folks give him credit for. It's just that he's living outdoors, has to lug around everything, is in a rough environment, and given a choice between carrying two tools that do one job each (perfectly), or one tool that does two jobs "well enough", that weighes 1/2 as much, he'll take the 1 tool, and some more ammo - as the ammo will keep him alive. Kinda makes it hard on your gear, as they will figure out how to break things that you never thought of
Back about 3 years ago, I was in a situation - Buy a new house, or add on to the one I was living in
Started with a few quick pencil drawings, and that SEEMED to work.
I then went out and did 2 things
1)Bought a copy of "Floorplan", which I liked, and used it to model the existing house as best as I could
2)Payed an architect for a consult on zoning rules for my house
I then spent a few weeks desiging an idea that I liked - Nope, not down the the exact inch, but close - doing walk throughs, deciding on general things like window locations (Modeled the sunlight angles) and the like
THEN I went back to the architect and said "Here is the idea of what I want - yeah, it can be tweaked/changed - but this is the FEEL"
It comes down to this - some of us draw better on a computer, and are really comfortable with CAD
Of course, 3 weeks after the second stage with the architect, we found a new house - the joke is that the extention on the NEW house was almost exactly what I modeled on the old house. Paid the architect for work done till that point, and considered money well spent. It was only a few hundred at that point, as we hand not gotten serious
OK, I won't flame, and if sounds like I do, I appologize in advance. Heck, if I can educate, I help win the battle (maybe)
Personally, I won't be affected that much, as my class of license does not allow me to run in the HF part of the band. Based upon the reports I've seen, it will basically wipe out all HF communications - not only near transformers, but everywhere!
You raise a good point about 10s of Ks vs millions, but of course, there are other options for the millions - read as dsl/adsl.
Currently, the range of disruption of powerlines is SUPPOSED to be nil. In fact, if you have any problems with powerline disruption, it's because there is a problem in the powerline, and you can report it to the power company, and they are obligated by law to fix it. Yep - right now, if a power line interferes with ham radio, the power company must fix it. It's called incidental radiation, and it can't interfere with a "licensed service"
I don't know the real answer to this, but I think BPL as proposed will be killed - NOT by the hams, but by the broadcast and Public Safety industies, because it looks like it'll wipe out a lot of the AM broadcast band, plus much of the long range public safety stuff. VHF/UHF won't be affected as much, but all the lower frequency stuff used for "long haul" will be really wiped
We have been using "Inert" bombs in Iraq since the FIRST Gulf war. Rememeber, we have been constantly bombing them. 1000lb of concrete on a AA position does "interesting" things
Which is why I said "theoretically" and said that we only ended up with 5x - 7x as many bombs instaed of 10x. I know the racks are complex - heck, I even know that the MER doesn't work right, which is why you rarely see it
A few months back, I saw a tech article about another type of bomb they are working on, that is very related - Small bombs!
Right now, the "standard" US bombs are 500 lbs, 1000lbs or 2000lbs. Bombs this big were needed so that the blast/schrapnel would take out the target even if you hit 10-20 yards from the intended target. (talking blast effect here)
As the latest generation of bombs got more accurate, they started to realize that this was SERIOUS overkill. If you can hit the exact building you want, there is NO need for a bomb that big. So, for the first time since Pre WWII, the USAF is working on designs for bombs in the 50-100 lb class.
It gives them a BUNCH of advantages
1)Less colateral damage - yep, I'll be blunt - we kill less of the people we don't want to kill 2)Less danger to our own troops working close 3)The odd one - if we develop new load racks, you should be able to carry approximately 10 times more 50 lb bombs than you could 500 lb bombs
You see, even back during "Gulf I", we had to send multiple aircraft against one target to destroy it - it didn't make sense to worry about it. Now, we actually task one aircraft to destroy multiple targets. If you can carry 10x more bombs, you could (in theory) attack 10x more targets per mission. In reality, the fact is that the bombs have NOT become so accuate that each 50 lb bomb will hit exactly on target, and the kill radius is small enough, that even a small miss wont work. So they will probably task 2 or 3 bombs to each target, so figure each aircraft can attack 2-3 times more targets per sorte
Like it or not, it's interesting technology. You may not like what it's used for, but it is "cutting edge"
The same place they found them after 9/11 where ham radio was the only reliable mode of comms around ground zero for a couple of days. You know who told the disaster workers WHO to contact to start getting phones setup? The Hams on site, who had contacts with the right folks
You live in, let's sa the LA area (you mention earthquakes). No a search on LA and CERT. The hams TRAIN to work with the police and fire departments in case of disaster
Look up ARES - The Amateur Radio Emergency Service
Look up the fact that ARES works closely with the Red Cross, the Dept of Homeland Security, FEMA, LOTS of fire departments, wilderness rescue teams and the like
Look up RACES - Look up what happens if the Government declares a Radio Communications Emergency (and think about what happens to your 802.11 links - say "Bye-bye")
Actually, Ham radio operators, being licensed do NOT have to accept interference! That is the diference between a "Part 15" device and a Part 97 device.
Your 802.11 device has to accept interference, part 97 (Ham radio) or any other licensed service does not
Years ago, I was asked to maintain a piece of software where the author distributed the code, but maintained copyright
The author then died, with no heirs, but he had assigned the software (In code comments) to his employer. I called the employer, and asked. I was told, "Do what you want with it - it's yours". Unfortunately, I've never gotten a letter, so I have never really continued. If they want my changes, they can have them. Much better products have come along in the 7 or 8 years
Depends on when you were a kid. The first time I was in WDW was in 1975, and you could get caught on multi HOUR lines (Back in the days of the E ticket)
I went last September. Only twice did I get caught on a line longer than about 15-20 minutes, and both where on small, no big deal rides, where if I had know the line was as long as it was, I would not have bothered. The trick is they now have a thing called "fast pass" You can "check in" to a ride, and you are given a time to come back. The total wait time is supposed to be the same if you FP or not. They keep the actual FP line down to a few minutes. The trick is, you can only FP the major rides, and only one at a time
Disclaimer - I work for a company owned by Disney, BUT my opinion here is totally my own. The REALLY can make a 6 YO girl one happy kid
Yeah, but you have to remember that there is a spare mirror (I believe it's currently either in Rochester NY or at the Air and Space. IT doesn't need corrective glasses. The mechanical structure of hubble is rumored to be identical to the KH-11 series of spy sats, so it MIGHT be easy to get the mechanical sections.
The first, as other folks said, is that the courts move slowly in this kind of dispute
The second is that the lawyers move slower. Remember, they get paid by the hour. Every legal tactic they use that delays the case makes them more money. There was a study done here in NYC that showed that lawyers make cases go slower, depending on how much monry they can get
I've seen the M1A1 fire supression system fire! Impressive to say the least. I'n a previous thread I talked about testing military electronics. One of the other customers of one of the test houses we used made the hallon system for the M1 -M1A1
Oh, I'll agree with you totally, and it wasn't a knock on my part. It's just that he said that the Regan "forgetting" was Watergate, along with a "dumbass" quote that I found (yes, to use an overworked word in the proper way) Ironic, so I just HAD to remind him that Regan was Iran Contra, and Watergate was Nixon
Rose Lawfirm was Hillary "forgetting" that the records where on her NIGHTSTAND for a couple of years, along with FBI records, etc
If your going to call someone a dumbass, I sugest you get your facts right. Then again, based on the average age of the posters here, you probably don't remember Iran Contra, never mind Watergate (which was Nixon FYI). And yes, I remember both
Acually, counting the weekend as ONE day works! You then have 7 people and 6 days, which can work out really well. (damed lameness filter won't let me use day numbers, so I'll try for good names)
Day = Person
Monday = Alice
Tues = Bob
Wed = Carol
Thurs = Doug
Fri = Ed
Sat & Sun = Frank
Mon = George
Tues = Alice
Wed = Bob
Thurs = Carol
Fri = Doug
Sat&Sun = Ed
and follow the pattern. What's nice about the pattern is that if your the person stuck with the weekend, you are totally off the next week!
Guess what? It expands too! Just have an ordered list of employees, and the next person gets the beeper when you get to work, and it just wraps around. In fact, it works better when you have more folks, because you get longer blocks of "Off call"
When folks want a vacation, they have to work out a trade, and this is the sore point, because it can be hard to find someone to take your spot
Slashdot Mirror
How well did ham radio do for power? In NYC, not as well as we would have liked
NYC ARES normally has use of up to 12 "Tac" repeaters, with "Tac 2" being our main repeater. Well, we found out something "interesting" - Tac 2 has no emergency power!
It ended up (In the city proper) that 2 of our Tac repeaters stay up, and had NO problems with power. There was another repeater in a better location than the two afore mentioned TACS that was up on emergency power, and we asked the trustee of that repeater if we could use it. We could, and did. We effectively took that repeater over until late Saturday. Yep, there were still folks without WATER Saturday afternoon, as the pumps in their buildings did not come up when the power came on
I know at least 3 of the Repeater trustees are looking into new emergency power equipment
That said, even without the repeaters, we would have gotten the job done. It would have been harder. Someone with a low wattage HT could not have talked directly across the city (remember, it's 40 or so miles from one corner to another), but we would have relayed the messages - we call it 'Passing Traffic', and we practice it
Most of the folks in ARES itself have enough battery backup that we didn't even get worried. Personally, I have something like 225 Ah (Yes AmpHours - not milliampHours) of batteries that stay on charge (used to have more, but I toasted 2 cells when a charger blew). I never even got the FIRST 90 Ah SLA to the point where I would have had to switch over - in fact, I never even came close.
So how did we do for power? Well enough to get the job done, not as well as we would have liked. As we do our post deployment assesments, we'll figure out what went right, and wrong (wrong is more important), and try to correct those problems. Remember BTW that all this gear comes out of our own pockets, with NO cost to the folks who use our services
Right - and the hams are going to invest thousands of dollars for their own gear, and NOT be able to use it except in an emergency, PLUS they won't be able to train with that gear
Yeah, that makes sense - learn to do something in an emergency situation, instead of working public service events year round, and training "nets" every week.
Your also only thinking blackouts. When they have forest fires out west - how do they do the long haul radio comms? Yep, hams on HF. When there is a hurricane, how do the storm spotting reports come in - Hams on HF - AGAIN. When The shuttle broke up over Texas, what did NASA and the local PDs find was the ONLY thing that worked out in the rural areas. You guessed it - Hams. When they need to do GIS data logging, what did they use? Hams running a mode called APRS
40 Meters (aka HF) was used between the various OEMs and Albany and Red Cross National
Disclaimer
I'm the Queens County Emergency Coordinator of ARES - One of the groups called out. I "work" (2 levels down) for Tom from the article
Ok folks
I've wired power panels in residential situations. I have NO unreasonable fear of electricity. I used to work professionally in HEAVY duty power electronics (Multiple 10s of KW UPS systems). I've worked on 400Hz AC Power supplies (Hurts more than the 60Hz stuff). I've been zapped by 220 3phase more times than I care to remember, and even 400 volts DC. I used to have lockout tags. At one point I even used to do wiring that required an electrician to sign off on my work, and never had to change anything
You know what I would do in this situation?
CALL AN ELECTRCIAN
Does that sum it up?
I agree - your right, but that's the "system" - so when you see $35k for a wheelchair, remember we are talking "the system"
As MANY other folks pointed out - the reason for the approval process, and the MD prescription is simple:
Now that is no longer "experimental", but an FDA approved treatment, Many, if not most insurance companies will pay for it
Now, if you thing 20 or even 30k is expensive in the medical field, you haven't had to have surgery lately. If I remember right, the "Offical" bill for my Son's birth (totally normal - no C section, no complications) was in the 30k-40k range. Of course, with the deductable, etc, it cost us $10
Yep, designing "stuff" to work out in the field is hard.
WAY back when, starting during the Summer between HS and college, and continuing through college, I worked building and putting up crane systems. You know, the kind that looks like a moving bridge that you see in movies all the time
Man, that job was rough on men and equipment. The joke is, as rough as that job was, my next job required me to build stuff for the military. There is an expression - "Grunt Proof". The average "Grunt" is a heck of a lot smarter than folks give him credit for. It's just that he's living outdoors, has to lug around everything, is in a rough environment, and given a choice between carrying two tools that do one job each (perfectly), or one tool that does two jobs "well enough", that weighes 1/2 as much, he'll take the 1 tool, and some more ammo - as the ammo will keep him alive. Kinda makes it hard on your gear, as they will figure out how to break things that you never thought of
Back about 3 years ago, I was in a situation - Buy a new house, or add on to the one I was living in
Started with a few quick pencil drawings, and that SEEMED to work.
I then went out and did 2 things
1)Bought a copy of "Floorplan", which I liked, and used it to model the existing house as best as I could
2)Payed an architect for a consult on zoning rules for my house
I then spent a few weeks desiging an idea that I liked - Nope, not down the the exact inch, but close - doing walk throughs, deciding on general things like window locations (Modeled the sunlight angles) and the like
THEN I went back to the architect and said "Here is the idea of what I want - yeah, it can be tweaked/changed - but this is the FEEL"
It comes down to this - some of us draw better on a computer, and are really comfortable with CAD
Of course, 3 weeks after the second stage with the architect, we found a new house - the joke is that the extention on the NEW house was almost exactly what I modeled on the old house. Paid the architect for work done till that point, and considered money well spent. It was only a few hundred at that point, as we hand not gotten serious
OK, I won't flame, and if sounds like I do, I appologize in advance. Heck, if I can educate, I help win the battle (maybe)
Personally, I won't be affected that much, as my class of license does not allow me to run in the HF part of the band. Based upon the reports I've seen, it will basically wipe out all HF communications - not only near transformers, but everywhere!
You raise a good point about 10s of Ks vs millions, but of course, there are other options for the millions - read as dsl/adsl.
Currently, the range of disruption of powerlines is SUPPOSED to be nil. In fact, if you have any problems with powerline disruption, it's because there is a problem in the powerline, and you can report it to the power company, and they are obligated by law to fix it. Yep - right now, if a power line interferes with ham radio, the power company must fix it. It's called incidental radiation, and it can't interfere with a "licensed service"
I don't know the real answer to this, but I think BPL as proposed will be killed - NOT by the hams, but by the broadcast and Public Safety industies, because it looks like it'll wipe out a lot of the AM broadcast band, plus much of the long range public safety stuff. VHF/UHF won't be affected as much, but all the lower frequency stuff used for "long haul" will be really wiped
And we're going to buy our own gear, train with it, and the like, and not be able to use it....
right
We have been using "Inert" bombs in Iraq since the FIRST Gulf war. Rememeber, we have been constantly bombing them. 1000lb of concrete on a AA position does "interesting" things
Which is why I said "theoretically" and said that we only ended up with 5x - 7x as many bombs instaed of 10x. I know the racks are complex - heck, I even know that the MER doesn't work right, which is why you rarely see it
A few months back, I saw a tech article about another type of bomb they are working on, that is very related - Small bombs!
Right now, the "standard" US bombs are 500 lbs, 1000lbs or 2000lbs. Bombs this big were needed so that the blast/schrapnel would take out the target even if you hit 10-20 yards from the intended target. (talking blast effect here)
As the latest generation of bombs got more accurate, they started to realize that this was SERIOUS overkill. If you can hit the exact building you want, there is NO need for a bomb that big. So, for the first time since Pre WWII, the USAF is working on designs for bombs in the 50-100 lb class.
It gives them a BUNCH of advantages
1)Less colateral damage - yep, I'll be blunt - we kill less of the people we don't want to kill
2)Less danger to our own troops working close
3)The odd one - if we develop new load racks, you should be able to carry approximately 10 times more 50 lb bombs than you could 500 lb bombs
You see, even back during "Gulf I", we had to send multiple aircraft against one target to destroy it - it didn't make sense to worry about it. Now, we actually task one aircraft to destroy multiple targets. If you can carry 10x more bombs, you could (in theory) attack 10x more targets per mission. In reality, the fact is that the bombs have NOT become so accuate that each 50 lb bomb will hit exactly on target, and the kill radius is small enough, that even a small miss wont work. So they will probably task 2 or 3 bombs to each target, so figure each aircraft can attack 2-3 times more targets per sorte
Like it or not, it's interesting technology. You may not like what it's used for, but it is "cutting edge"
The same place they found them after 9/11 where ham radio was the only reliable mode of comms around ground zero for a couple of days. You know who told the disaster workers WHO to contact to start getting phones setup? The Hams on site, who had contacts with the right folks
You live in, let's sa the LA area (you mention earthquakes). No a search on LA and CERT. The hams TRAIN to work with the police and fire departments in case of disaster
Look up ARES - The Amateur Radio Emergency Service
Look up the fact that ARES works closely with the Red Cross, the Dept of Homeland Security, FEMA, LOTS of fire departments, wilderness rescue teams and the like
Look up RACES - Look up what happens if the Government declares a Radio Communications Emergency (and think about what happens to your 802.11 links - say "Bye-bye")
Actually, Ham radio operators, being licensed do NOT have to accept interference! That is the diference between a "Part 15" device and a Part 97 device.
Your 802.11 device has to accept interference, part 97 (Ham radio) or any other licensed service does not
Years ago, I was asked to maintain a piece of software where the author distributed the code, but maintained copyright
The author then died, with no heirs, but he had assigned the software (In code comments) to his employer. I called the employer, and asked. I was told, "Do what you want with it - it's yours". Unfortunately, I've never gotten a letter, so I have never really continued. If they want my changes, they can have them. Much better products have come along in the 7 or 8 years
Depends on when you were a kid. The first time I was in WDW was in 1975, and you could get caught on multi HOUR lines (Back in the days of the E ticket)
I went last September. Only twice did I get caught on a line longer than about 15-20 minutes, and both where on small, no big deal rides, where if I had know the line was as long as it was, I would not have bothered. The trick is they now have a thing called "fast pass" You can "check in" to a ride, and you are given a time to come back. The total wait time is supposed to be the same if you FP or not. They keep the actual FP line down to a few minutes. The trick is, you can only FP the major rides, and only one at a time
Disclaimer - I work for a company owned by Disney, BUT my opinion here is totally my own. The REALLY can make a 6 YO girl one happy kid
Yeah, but you have to remember that there is a spare mirror (I believe it's currently either in Rochester NY or at the Air and Space. IT doesn't need corrective glasses. The mechanical structure of hubble is rumored to be identical to the KH-11 series of spy sats, so it MIGHT be easy to get the mechanical sections.
2 things are probably holding it up
The first, as other folks said, is that the courts move slowly in this kind of dispute
The second is that the lawyers move slower. Remember, they get paid by the hour. Every legal tactic they use that delays the case makes them more money. There was a study done here in NYC that showed that lawyers make cases go slower, depending on how much monry they can get
Use the NSA method - which got a "golden fleese", but works
1)Shread
2)Burn
3)Chemical destroy
THEN
Glassify the remains
Get data out of that!
I've seen the M1A1 fire supression system fire! Impressive to say the least. I'n a previous thread I talked about testing military electronics. One of the other customers of one of the test houses we used made the hallon system for the M1 -M1A1
Oh, I'll agree with you totally, and it wasn't a knock on my part. It's just that he said that the Regan "forgetting" was Watergate, along with a "dumbass" quote that I found (yes, to use an overworked word in the proper way) Ironic, so I just HAD to remind him that Regan was Iran Contra, and Watergate was Nixon
Rose Lawfirm was Hillary "forgetting" that the records where on her NIGHTSTAND for a couple of years, along with FBI records, etc
He was refering to Iran Contra
If your going to call someone a dumbass, I sugest you get your facts right. Then again, based on the average age of the posters here, you probably don't remember Iran Contra, never mind Watergate (which was Nixon FYI). And yes, I remember both
Only because you haven't hit a limit - YET. He get's into the time to read/write that vehicle full of HDs, and the time to read/write
Yeah, it doesn't pay for 3 gigs - try it for 20 TB!
Acually, counting the weekend as ONE day works! You then have 7 people and 6 days, which can work out really well. (damed lameness filter won't let me use day numbers, so I'll try for good names)
Day = Person
Monday = Alice
Tues = Bob
Wed = Carol
Thurs = Doug
Fri = Ed
Sat & Sun = Frank
Mon = George
Tues = Alice
Wed = Bob
Thurs = Carol
Fri = Doug
Sat&Sun = Ed
and follow the pattern. What's nice about the pattern is that if your the person stuck with the weekend, you are totally off the next week!
Guess what? It expands too! Just have an ordered list of employees, and the next person gets the beeper when you get to work, and it just wraps around. In fact, it works better when you have more folks, because you get longer blocks of "Off call"
When folks want a vacation, they have to work out a trade, and this is the sore point, because it can be hard to find someone to take your spot