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During Blackout, Ham Radio Shined
Mark Cantrell writes "An interesting bit on AP through Yahoo today. Seems that ham radio (which recently had a bit of backlash here on Slashdot from a few people thinking it was useless, outdated technology), really shined through during the blackouts. When the power went, ham radio operators, using battery backup power, were able to help coordinate emergency workers while the cell phone networks were overloaded. For anyone wondering why interference due to power line broadband is considered a bad thing, well, there ya go."
....Right, because when the power is out, those power lines sure generate a lot of interference.
Looks like that _power line_ interference is going to be really prevalent. I don't know if the emergency crews will be able to receive your transmissions.
bananas like monkeys.
Being a slashdotter means never having to say you're sorry when you ostracize a seemingly archaic, yet dependable, technology that shows its worth when all else fails.
Cyde Weys Musings - Scrutinizing the inscrutable
Man, what happened to those phones you needed to crank up??
Fortunately the interference from power-line broadband wasn't an issue at the time ;)
You only need HAM radio once in a while, but there is no substitute for it's low-tech ability to keep communicating.
It is obvious that old methods shine when newer technology fails.
This is why we burn candles during blackouts.
Big deal, lets get on with the other 99.9% of our lives.
The unofficial
... that none of the communications applications mentioned in the article would have used HF radio. HF is used when you want an unreliable, noisy link over extremely long distances. VHF (144 MHz and up) and UHF comms are used for emergency-services work. These services would not be affected by BPL.
HF is pretty much done for as a meaningful communications medium. VHF and UHF are where the action is these days.
How about just plain old shouting? Isn't that pretty low tech?
Microsoft Windows runs on stress and frustration.
...data can never have too many multiple, redundant backups.
Carousel is a lie!
My entire internet service has been ham based for years. While the person who runs it is an absolute moron and the service sucks, it's not the technology's fault, it's the guy who runs it. Ham radio isps is the future for anyone who lives where cable/dsl isn't available.
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
DSL tech-support guy here!
Maybe you are on cable, I dunno, but did you try a power cycle? (ie, unplug modem / router and plug back in after 30 seconds).
What happens when the HAM radios quit working?! Smoke signals, anyone?
hey!
http://saveie6.com/
sorry, ran out of space in the subject line...
Many cell towers are equiped with UPSs to work for a couple hours or so, but hardly enough to cover an outage like what we've seen. We've concentrated on building these things cheap. I can't say I blame them -- who expects a two-day-long outage? Even so, many of the backups didn't even work. You could argue that they should have generators for backup, solar panels, gerbil-wheels, or what not, but its our capitalist nature to try and build these things as cheaply as possible.
I'd argue that, instead of relying on grungy old men with ham radios, that emergency personel should have access to ham radios. It'd probably cost a lot less to do that than to create a telecommunications infrastructure resistant to blackouts.
I keep my HT charged up.. and can plug it into 12v car any time.. Our club repeater has 2 APC's on different parts of the equipment to keep it online for hours. We also have the repeater on a backup generator.
If the power outage had hit minnesota, I'd be 30 seconds away from my radio, ready to find out where everyone is, and what is going on.
-KC0NBY
So what do I listen to the 99.99% of the time when there is power. Not much point to having equipment I can use 1 day every 15 years (if the next blackout is on schedule).
Can someone tell me the difference between HAM and citizen's band ?
Yeah, thats how you reset the cable modem.
When it powers up, it tries contacting the server at some frequency, if that fails, it moves up to a different frequency, and keeps trying. if it cant connect it starts over again.
It makes contact, and data is coming (and going?) to the server but i cant access anything
How would you like a 128k data link to your car:d ex.htm l
http://www.icomamerica.com/amateur/dstar/in
Amateur Radio is cutting edge, the thing that makes it seem obsolete is that they never delete old protocols or modes of operation. For example the same guy may use CW to contact Brazil one night, and an OSCAR (Orbital Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio) Satellite to contact France the next.
A troll with karma... kudos to you man.
I'm a paramedic in NYC, and when the lights went out, I went straight into work at the hospital.
Before I left the house, I took along my HTX-245 Radio Shack dual band radio ($49 on clearance).
I tried several repeaters, and an operator on one, informed me that the repeater was up on battery power, he was standing by with a working landline, and was available to us for phone calls in case we needed to contact our telemetry physician.
The admins and my boss at the hospital were very impressed, more so when the EMS radios went down, and my HTX-245 600mw radio was our only link that time in the field.
73's N2PDB
Damned illiterates :-)
I have discovered a wonderful
Shone! Shone! Dear God, 'shined' hasn't been used as a past tense since the 1700s!
So Timothy is a time traveller from the 1700s. That explains a lot of slashdot spelling now that I think about it
Ok, the coffee is kicking in now.
Radio: [speaking foreign language] I have a ham radio.
[9F11] Selma's Choice
That's what we get for depending on electricity so much. HAM radio is nothing special, without those car batteries and other backup power sources it would have been as useless as a pair of tits on a bull.
Just make sure never to get an electric home environment control system.
... And you and your octogenarian geek-relic friends have to ditch your 802.11sux network you've been proudly and lovingly keeping alive, because the new FlanKist MoonNet needs your frequencies.
we can even ham it up a bit, because it's no contest. the walking dead are huddled/hiving in their bunkers even now.
communications will improve, using whatever power source is available.
you gnu/software folks are to be commended. we'd be nearly doomed by now (instead, we're opening yet another isp service) without y'all. the check's in the mail again.
meanwhile... for those yet to see the light.
don't come crying to us when there's only won channel/os left.
nothing has changed since the last phonIE ?pr? ?firm? generated 'news' brIEf. lots of good folks/innocents are being killed/mutilated daily by the walking dead. if anything the situations are continuing to deteriorate. you already know that.
the posterbouys for grand larcenIE/deception would include any & all of the walking dead who peddle phonIE stock markup payper to millions of hardworking conservative folks, & then after stealing/spending/disappearing the real dough, pretend that nothing ever happened. sound familiar robbIE? these fauxking corepirate nazi larcens, want us to pretend along with them, whilst they continue to squander yOUR "investmeNTs", on their soul DOWt craving for excess/ego gratification. yuk
no matter their ceaseless efforts to block the truth from you, the tasks (planet/population rescue) will be completed.
the lights are coming up now.
you can pretend all you want. our advise is to be as far away from the walking dead contingent as possible, when the big flash occurs. you wouldn't want to get any of that evile on you.
as to the free unlimited energy plan, as the lights come up, more&more folks will stop being misled into sucking up more&more of the infant killing barrolls of crudeness, & learn that it's more than ok to use newclear power generated by natural (hydro, solar, etc...) methods. of course more information about not wasting anything/behaving less frivolously is bound to show up, here&there.
cyphering how many babies it costs for a barroll of crudeness, we've decided to cut back, a lot, on wasteful things like giving monIE to felons, to help them destroy the planet/population.
no matter. the #1 task is planet/population rescue. the lights are coming up. we're in crisis mode. you can help.
the unlimited power (such as has never been seen before) is freely available to all, with the possible exception of the aforementioned walking dead.
consult with/trust in yOUR creator. more breathing. vote with yOUR wallet. seek others of non-aggressive intentions/behaviours. that's the spirit, moving you.
pay no heed/monIE to the greed/fear based walking dead.
each harmed innocent carries with it a bad toll. it will be repaid by you/us. the Godless felons will not be available to make reparations.
pay attention. that's definitely affordable, plus you might develop skills which could prevent you from being misled any further by phonIE ?pr? ?firm? generated misinformation.
good work so far. there's still much to be done. see you there. tell 'em robbIE.
And you New Yorkers made fun of all us southerners with our pickups and 12 foot CB antennas.
I've always heard about ham radio use during emergencies, but I've long wondered, what does ham radio do during the rest of the time. If someone could explain the principles of ham radio, and perhaps give some examples, I'd be quite grateful.
Um, the power was out. Interference instantly gone when hams are only really useful. Otherwise there is power (interference) and the cell/phone network can re-route traffic as need around the problem area. Sure, the phone network(s) were overloaded during 9/11, but they continued to work and emergency personnel went off their powered radio systems anyway. Show me the problem. :)
I work for a wireless carrier, we lost less than a dozen towers during the outtage and the DIESEL GENERATORS that support them during power outtages are designed to last at least a week which is fantastic considering everyone else is without power. I think it's great that people still use ham radios, it keeps my grandfather from asking me how e-mail works.
An blonde chick ran out of gas one night and a dude pulled over to offer assistance. She got in the car and noticed he had all kinds of radio equipment in the car and several antennas outside. She asked what that was all about. He explained he was a Ham radio operator and he could talk to anywhere in the world from right here in his car. She asked "Anywhere in the world?" and he assured her he could. "Even in Poland?" she asked. "Yes, even Poland." She said "Wow, my mother lives in Poland and today is her birthday. I'd do anything if I could tell her Happy Birthday." He said "You'd do anything?" She said "Yes, anything." So he pulled over on the top of a hill and pulled out his dick and said "Get with it." She grabbed ahold of it and bent over and said "Happy Birthday, Mom."
Even though 99 pct of the time no one thinks about ham radio, in a crisis situation, it's usually the one form of communication that is likely to be still working when it hits the fan. In remote areas, it may be the only communication available even in good times.
The reason is that our modern communications are very complex and dependent on things like having reliable electrical power. Most ham sets can run on car batteries and provide nationwide or even global coverage if necessary. Voice, video, and data are all possible with ham radio. Just what you need in a crisis.
When all else fails, run.
There is no "capitalist nature". There is a human-created capitalist system which produces the effects you describe. If you don't like those effects, work to change it. There have been lots of other social systems in the past, and will be lots of others in the future. Maybe you'll help to sculpt one.
"emergency personel should have access to ham radios."
They have CB radios genius. The trunk mountd units which are in every cop car built in the last 30 years have a range of 20+ miles to a large fixed antenna at the station and 7 miles to another mobile antenna. There is even a set of frequencies set aside for government emergency use only. How do you think they have been communicating during those two days, smoke signals?
Left bright, clean. Also, shoes, silver.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
I'd argue that, instead of relying on grungy old men with ham radios, that emergency personel should have access to ham radios.
Uhhh... If the "emergency personnel" had "emergency power" (i.e. batteries, generators, etc.) the majority of their own radio systems would work.
Other than the frequency they are on and FCC type acceptance, amateur and commercial radio equipment is quite similar.
Grungy old men? I'm 26, and I got my ham license when I was 21. There are a lot more middle-aged-and-up hams than us young guys, though... Morgan KF4YTR
A look on the Bright Side (so to speak) of Blackouts: Had they actually implemented the powerline broadband thing, interference would have been nil during the blackout...
Mark
Couldnt blackberries have done the same job that the hams did here? They performed a similar service during the September 11th attacks in 2001 when everything else was overloaded
Your missing the point. Ham radio is there for YOU when you need it most. It's not just blackouts, eathquakes, search and rescue, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis, biblical plagues, it's so much more.
Almost all the hi tech radio technology you use on a daily basis, has had some direct influence from ham radio. You like WiFi? Who do you think were the primary experimenters in that frequeny range? Who do you think you still share some of that band with?
What's the best way to get some young people interested in technology and have some direct hands on experience building their own gear?
Ever see somebody make a repeater out of 2 battery opertaed hand held radios that can extend the range of other portables for miles? Ham's do that on a daily basis when public service departments (Fire, EMS, Police) don't have the resources to do so.
It's just not widley publicized for some reason.
I guess it makes sense to take pictures of firefighters in bunker gear (I'm not knocking them) than to see some guy hunched over a couple of radios relaying important info.
Please check out www.arrl.org to find out more.
...and you cause people to not get involved. Less involvement means that the system will fall apart.
If no one is left using the technology because of problems under normal conditions, these people won't be there to save your ass when you need paramedics called and the phones don't work.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
mean that ham radio freaks will try to cause blackouts?
During a crisis, power goes out so why does HAM even care? Yeah dude, no power, no internet, no broadband transmit over the power line, no RF interference.
Big yawn!!
CB prerequisites: For starters, you must have seen "Convoy" or "Smokey and the Bandit", both preferably. The phrases 'breaker breaker 1-9' and 'you get a copy on me good buddy' must be standard in your vocabulary. Do you have a cap that has either a John Deere or a CAT logo on it? Get one, ASAP. Your profession must be driving a long haul truck, or if you are a true civilian, your vehicle must be be a 70s Trans Am, a beat up truck, or maybe a tractor. A gun rack with an axe handle is a must. The women you bed will all be found at rest stop diners, with big hair and say things like 'Hun", "Shug" or "Darlin'". Grow some sideburns and you'll be set.
CQ-CQ-DX
You can't.
That is way you use generators!! Batteries are there until generators come on line. What is why you do not want digial phones in your home as your only phone. They rely on your house power. MA Bell (or kids) still use generators to help keep your phone on, so 911 will work.
The best system I have seen was in Caribbean. A single base cell tower... Batteries to keep on line for 30 minutes and THREE generators each with THREE fuel tanks, and all buried. Any generator with 1 fuel tank would run the system for 24 hours, including satellite uplink. That is a total of 9 days without refueling. This was to insure that if a hurricane came though and the tower was standing, it was still on the air. They also had spare towers to be setup in less than 4 hours.
The wired telephone network did really well during the blackout, because it was designed with separate reliable power systems, big batteries, generators, and a concern for reliability; except for a few isolated power problems, the real trouble that wired phones had was that too many people were trying to call so there were some capacity issues. Cell phones have similar issues, but the overloading capacity problems are far worse, and the failure methods aren't as clean, and unlike the wired phone network, there aren't decades of work on how to make sure that "important" users get priority during overloads.
Peer-to-Peer systems scale well, and theoretically they'd do better than centralized problems in some kinds of emergencies, but they have to be designed correctly to avoid the overloading-and-failure problem as well. (For example, Napster scaled really well within clusters, but the earlier Gnutella things run out of indexing capacity after a while.)
So you'd expect Ham Radio to be great, because everybody can talk directly to everybody else once they pick channels, but it's not really that way. When two radios can reach each other directly, and it's an emergency situation, everybody's polite and well-trained enough to prioritize and let the doctors and firemen and police talk to each other and move the idle chit-chat or the "Hi, Marge, I'll be home really late" personal calls to other channels. HF seems to work that way, and CB radio Channel 9 somewhat did, but other CB channels are a total zoo, kind of like Usenet without the scalability. But a large fraction of the cute little handheld ham sets (2m, 70cm, etc.) are repeater-based - there's a repeater up on a hilltop with N channels of transmit and receive which lets the little sets get lots of distance without lots of power, kind of like one big cell site per hilltop. It works really well when it's not overloaded, but its only overflow protection is polite users, and that means that if it's too busy, you can't get through, but the busy signal is friendlier and more interesting. One repeater that got mentioned at ARRL.ORG handled about 500 messages over 20 hours, which is about one call every 2 minutes - not a heavy load.
Does anybody know how well ham repeater towers did for power during the outage? I'm guessing most of them are well-enough designed, with batteries and solar to support most of their needs rather than depending on line power, partly because hams are good at that kind of planning and partly because volunteers would rather not have to drive up some mountain during bad weather to fire up a generator just because the power line went down when they've got better things to do.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I don't know how anyone could discount HAM radio. You can run it in your car and talk to people thousands of miles away. I am very glad there are still people out there that can communicate over large distances even with no internet, phone lines, or power lines.
Sigs are out of style, so I'm not going to use one...oh wait..
Dude, you really, really have to stop posting to slashdot while drunk. I mean, honestly. It can't be healthy.
WE CARE ABOUT YOU ANONYMOUS COWARD! We don't want to see you hurt yourself! *sob sob*
I think the whole power line thing is a bad idea.
Wireless technologies are more than able to fill this need with the same or less effort.
For all you folks dogging the HAMs, consider the do it yourself hacker nature they represent. Don't we need to nurture and cultivate this kind of thinking given the general law making trends today?
Again, its a bad idea that can easily be solved other ways.
Blogging because I can...
Dear Eater of Grass,
When we run out of prey.
Sincerely,
Carnivore
"I'd argue that, instead of relying on grungy old men with ham radios, that emergency personel should have access to ham radios. It'd probably cost a lot less to do that than to create a telecommunications infrastructure resistant to blackouts."
Not everyone in ham radio is a 'grungy old man'. I'm 23, and I'm licensed. My girlfriend at the time I got into Amateur Radio is licensed, she was who got me interested in the field. A friend of mine in his 30's is licensed, a former employer if mine is licensed, and he was the Systems Architect for a communications project of very large scale.
You probably know at least one ham radio operator, who probably has some old Kenwood radio somewhere waiting for a need to be used. I don't drive around with five antennas on my car, there is an antenna cable coming into the passenger compartment, but the mount sits in the trunk with the antenna so I can put it up if I feel that I need to use it. I keep good batteries near where I store my radios, and I have one VHF HT for quick use, and one all-mode HT for when real problems hit.
And besides, are you going to train all of the emergency personnel on how to use the equipment and proper ettiquite? It's not exactly rocket science, but there are enough emergency personnel who would rather worry about learning how to keep critically injured people alive and let someone else do the talking that I'll gladly be one of the 'someone else'.
And two hours on a cell tower you say? I can go days on a set of batteries on my 2m HT, and a full day on the all-mode, if I have to, and I have enough power to go miles without any relay. I think that's pretty good odds for an extended blackout.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
If you leave the fun frequencies (HF, the stuff the Broadband over power interferes with) saturated with noise and even clobber some of the VHF frequencies, who will want to buy equipment for use only when the power goes out. Also consider that while the power was out in some area it wasn't in others. The HAM at the recieving end may hear nothing but static.
A lot of the value that HAM radio provides in an emergency comes from the large number of people who have them who wouldn't if they could only use them when the lights went out. Take away the fun and no will want to bother.
I have also talked with several people who have traveled all over the world in small boats and nearly all agree that the most reliable communications is HAM radio due to the large number of "ears" listening.
I haven't keyed up a radio in a few years, but when my license expires in March of 2004, I'm renewing it.
It's just one of those things - you never know when you'll need it, but you'll be glad you had it...
---
KE6FTH
Yeah, they already have them.
So what's your point?
ham1: yeah how's the weather out there bob ?
ham2: it's kind of crappy it's real dark and we don't have any electricity
ham1: oh yeah, so what kind of radio do you have bob ?
ham2: oh i got myself a pro810x with a echo microphone.
ham1: cool bob, cool, i myself have the pro1520
ham2: that's a nice one, so how's the weather up there ?
http://www.vanillaafro.com - take me seriously and I will shoot you
...cancel each other out. Seriously, in emergencies, BPL is likely to be non-functional, and if it is still functioning, then the problem probably isn't really that severe anyway.
Tierce
Tierce
Who sponsors your feelings?
HAM requires one to pass an exam to receive an FCC issued callsign, and there are specific rules as to what classes of licenses are allowed as far as frequency, power, transmission type, and the like. HAM radio operators can lose their licenses if they violate the rules, and have their equipment confinscated. The exam for the entry level operator class, "Technician", is 35 questions, and you must answer 26 correctly to pass. It's an easy test, costs $10, and applies your license for ten years before another $10 renewal (for ten more years) is required. There is next a Technician Plus Code class, which gives access to an additional frequency over Technician, and then General, which is higher yet, and more difficult, followed by Amateur-Extra, which is the top license, where you get all HAM-allowed privileges.
CB, on the other hand, has some 40 "channels", is technically restricted in power to something like one watt or somesuch, and simply requires you to get in line at Radioshack to buy the kit. You are in theory not allowed to talk to someone that you know is more than a certain distance away from you, CB is designed for local communcation only. CB is not allowed repeaters, and those that have tried setting up CB repeater networks have found themselves in trouble with the FCC. The "Channels" are set frequencies that CB operates on, not actual raw stuff like HAM operators deal with. HAM operators get a significantly larger piece of spectrum, with stuff as low as 10Hz, and up in the GHz range at the top, with all kinds of pieces in between. CB gets it's one section around 10m or 11m or something like that.
Basically, HAM Radio requires you to follow some rules in exchange for significant privileges, CB is a toy.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
many ham radio operators put great effort in training for emergencies and praticipate in mock emergency drills with the red cross and state emergency agencies.. As for Ham radio being outdated, some of the most advanced digital signal processing is now being used in Ham radios.. Some of the top end radios even have two DSPs.. Broadband over the powerlines will cause problems other than just ham radio.. The biggest users of the spectrum that the powerlines will be using is the military and other government agencies.. It could even cause problems with other part 15 devices..
The simple sad fact is that ham radio is now virtually irrelevant in emergency communications and other direct public service activities. While the non-ham world has embraced analog and digital cell phones, FRS, 802.11, LEO and GEO satellite terminals and the Internet, most of ham radio is still stuck on methods that predate World War 2. And many hams seem perversely proud of it!
The only remaining reason for ham radio to continue to exist (and it's a really important one) is for the utterly unique educational opportunities it provides. Where else can you, as an individual, design your own antennas, build your own radios, conduct propagation experiments, experiment with your own modulation schemes, or participate in the design, construction and operation of a spacecraft? Ham radio has launched many people into productive technical careers, and that has always been its biggest payoff.
You should educate yourself on what really happens in disasters like this. Hams are well organized to be deployed in these situations. The emergency personel not only get access to the equipment but also to people trained to operate them and coordinate in a very orderly way, not only with other hams but with various emergency services as well. Actually many more emergency responders are trained hams than I suspect you realize, but those who are not would not be very effective in knowing everything they needed to operate a station without causing additional problems. Check with your local Emergency Management people and they can tell you if they would rather have hams helping or access to some radios (hint: the cops, fire departments, paramedics and other emergency responders already have radios, but hams still make very important contributions).
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Hams aren't allowed to talk about business on the air (unlike CB radio or some of the other mobile bands), because that got in the way of the FCC's New Deal views of how they wanted to regulate the quasi-nationalized airwaves and monopoly telephone and radio broadcast companies, and they're not allowed to use encryption (it took a long time before even ASCII was officially recognized, because it's a Code that's not Morse) because Foreign Spies might use it, and I think you're still not even allowed to use Bad Language because it's a broadcast medium (that doesn't totally suck, because it is more polite, but since you can lose your license, it still sucks.)
CB radio used to be semi-censored and did require licenses, and was limited to 5 watts which was usually a moderate distance in those days, but the FCC lost control of it during the 1970s flood of truckers and low-cost radio hardware, in spite of it being a very limited band. So some guy in Florida with a kilowatt linear ham amplifier could blow out CB radios across half the country... And you can use walkie-talkies with very limited range - the non-licensed FRS stuff pretends to go two miles, but you're supposed to have a license to use the GMRS channels which pretend to do 5-7 miles.
The ARPANET had its Acceptable Use Policies against non-official use, and its unofficial very flexible policies that you could talk about anything you want _except_ business, and about official government-or-university-research-related business, but companies that had Arpanet connections and UUCP connections couldn't technically relay email between them unless it was AUP-permitted email. So as the Internet evolved, and had the connectivity to be much more useful than dialup UUCP mail, it was very hard to tell whether you could legally send somebody email about business that your company was doing with their company, because it might be crossing AUP-censored territory. Eventually the Commercial Internet Exchange was formed to let normal businesses use Internet connections, especially email, without violating those laws or policies. But that worked because network connections use wires and fibers that can connect private entities, even if you use TCP/IP on them, while Ham Radio uses the nationalized radio spectrum so it can't escape (unless you wanted to use ham radio technology in metal pipes or something silly like that.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
...we write worms?
Now that really is a supprise.
Oh sure Ham's an old technology. Like Unix. Constantly revising the technology by a community connected by the technology. Like open source. Always informmed like Slashdot working together to keep the signal clear.
Many ham ops use Linux and for a good reason the whole Linux community is very much like the Ham packet community.
Today public wifi is a bunch of hacks with repeaters etc but some day a ham will bring out some technology that will make it work on a massive scale.
But people outside the ham community. They don't see it. They look at ham and say "That ugly tower is going to bring down property values" they say "We'll get cancer" they sue and harrass ham ops.
They don't believe a group of hobbyists can do any better than paid profesionals.
Open source and free software communitys live in the same boat.
Hay if brodband over IP interfears with ham packets then what will happen to cell phones, wifi, broudcast TV and radio..
We don't need archaic hams and we don't need open source software. But if you think the alternitive isn't ditching the technology all together your mistaken.
Good bye open source, good bye Linux, Good bye Internet.
Good by Ham, good bye communication inovations, good bye cell phones and yet again good bye Internet.
We can live with out it. Do we want to?
If Ham had a Microsoft there'd be someone saying right now how Ham got lucky.
I don't actually exist.
Yeah, okay. I am not sure of any ham radio based ISPs in the US, however, such a thing would be illegal and impractical for several reasons:
First of all, it is illegal to use amateur radio as a commercial service.
* It's illegal to use encryption or voice scrambling over amateur radio. This would make things like https, ssl, and ssh, illegal to use over the service.
* the customers of the service would have to have amateur radio licenses as well as the ISP.
* It is illegal to transmit profanity over amateur radio.
Please moderate this appropriately (down)
I am not old and grungy, either. I am 25 and have been licensed for several years. And emergency personnel already have access to ham radio. Check out: http://www.ares.org/ or http://www.skywarn.org/
42
Yes, this blackout is the best thing to happen to ham radio in a while. Maybe this stupid idea of broadband over power lines will finally be snipped.
But yeah, it's kind of fun technology, if it weren't for the fact that the FCC can bust you any time you say anything not politically correct on the air, not that they usually bother.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
For anyone wondering why interference due to power line broadband is considered a bad thing, well, there ya go.
I'm guessing that won't be a problem when the power goes out and we actually have a need again for Ham.
There wasn't much powerline or RF interference during this particular event...
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I can't see anything. Can you bring beer?
Over.
grammar-lesson free since 1999. (rescinded - 2005)
If the power is out, power line broadband would not interfere because it would be without power!
Also shining was my helioscope, but it always does that.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Nothing says "ignore me for the velvet-curtain-wearing makeup-applying trenchcoat-mafia goth-fag that I am" quite like "www.gothicfury.com" - congratulations!
Ham radio is not licensed for use as a commercial or government service. It is a non-commercial ("amateur") service only.
Plus, most service workers and emergency personnell have radios that have anywhere from zero (auto-trunking) to five (old style VHF/UHF) "channels". Training them to use the open spectrum and coordinate such use is ridiculous. They're responding to an emergency, they won't have time or patience to establish a net and communications protocol.
We "old" (27 years old) hams are able to take this one little slice of responsibility and learn it very, very well. I don't have to worry about crowd control, or CPR, or evacuating the building--all I have to worry about is maintaining a communications link between myself and the net control, and then passing messages back and forth. What I have that the professional emergency responders do not have is the skill necessary to manage the communications should something unexpected happen, such as a jammer on frequency, blocked communications paths, etc.
Do you think that the police captain running the search-and-rescue drill has the spare time to decide whether a small J-pole antenna or a 35 watt amp is the best way to establish contact and maintain it over a period of hours or days?
JD
FCC doesn't control radio frequency propogation. They offer regulation and training, that is all. If you are licensed by the FCC (given permission to operate under their regulation) then you are only allowed to communicate with other stations or operators that have a "treaty agreement" (?).
...[governance is by consent of the governed]..."
So, in fact, if you believe in Jesus Christ then you are endowned as a Priest to communicate to others including use of Jehova's radio frequency propogation and physics techniques. But, you would be limited to communicate only with other fellow believers of Jesus Christ because there exists no treaty between the FCC and Jesus Christ/Jehova.
And if they arrest you, tell them that Exodus 21:16 says (and I paraphrase) "[anyone caught stealing a man will be put to death.]" Why say this? Because you have not consented to their regulation, as appropriated with the *originaly* commercial agreement, the "Constitution of the thirteen united States of America"; that (I once again paraphrase) "
sha na na
Now wash your hands.
XII. ???
XIV. Profit!!
This is just not even fun anymore
Are you trying to sound Eastern European? I've done it better for you below:
In Caribbean, cell tower transmits YOU!
That is way use generators!! Batteries there until generators come on line. What is why you do not want digial phones in home as only phone. They rely on house power. MA Bell (or kids) still use generators to help keep phone on, so 911 working.
Best system seen was in Caribbean. Single base cell tower... Batteries keep on line for 30 minutes and THREE generators each with THREE fuel tanks, and all buried. Any generator with 1 fuel tank run the system for 24 hours, including satellite uplink. That is total of 9 days without refueling. This to insure if hurricane came though with tower standing, still on air. Also had spare towers being setup in less than 4 hours.
Incorrect grammar. Should have been "...Ham radio shone."
Maybe you'll help to sculpt one.
Somehow, I doubt it.
Immune System.
Also mad cow disease is at least as bad for the cow. Answer, Dont' eat sick animals. Are you sure you aren't a cow. Maybe I should slice a steak off of you to make sure?
Avoid eating plants, they practice chemical warfare.
Handheld ham radio transceivers can do a lot more than short-range UHF police radios that depend on repeaters.
Move 'sig'. For great justice!
Ham is obviously vindicated at this point.
What about other comms technologies that could run off battery/generator backup when the wall-wart fails? Satellite comms? What else is out there? I'm not some hardcore Ham advocate, but simply asking.
-- What the hell was I thinking?
One service that hams provide quite often that EVERYONE benefits from is skywarn. In threatening weather hams known as spotters keep on the lookout for tornadoes, high winds, hail, etc. and report it from several locations at once. A almost real time of localized weather can be attained. Whenever you hear the weatherman say that spotters seen a funnel cloud or a tornado touchdown, they are talking about hams.
I'm a handsome devil of 32.
-- KE4TVF
"I'd much rather have a REAL backup system than spend money reducing power line interference for HAM radio operators."
This isn't real?
Looks pretty organised to me. RACES (for HAM Radio) and REACT (for CB et al.) have been organized for quite some time. They provide coordinated relay of information when a natural disaster (or worse) occurs. They're usually up and running within minutes, and they listen for emergency transmissions from other operators, to forward to the right authorities. Sounds like a good system to me...
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
You talk about "ham radios" like they are something special - they aren't - they are in fact transcievers just like the kind the cops, military or commercial organizations use. If it wasn't for the vast infrastructure of volunteers it wouldn't be all that better then those frs radios you can get for 5$ at wallmart. Also I'm an Extra Class ham and I'm only 25 - I don't think I'm all that grungy... I'm just a regular guy who can help out - and thats what ham radio is.
:) - thats nothing anyone who is "emergency personel" would even be interested in.
"emergency personel" already have their own repeaters and equipment, but they aren't typically handeling traffic for regular people, non profits, hospitals (especially ones in the countryside) and things that civil servants typically also do. Who can you contact if you want to sent information during an emergency to loved ones and can't use regular communications? Call a ham
Another fact which hasn't been noted here, are all the digital modes being used on HF. Technics like PSK31 and other modes, can get signals through even under noisy conditions. Ham radio is not about old grumpy men using CW, but an interesting field for experimenting with technology. Some licensed amateurs frequently use packet radio, satelite links and other interesting and/or obscure methods like moon bouncing. Ham radio is still alive and kicking, just try to be a bit more open-minded and check out the technology before you dismiss it.
In a free country it is appropriate that we rely on volunteers. Communication is much too important to be left to the goverment.
Well, since hams only have conversations about the weather, their computers which they can barely operate, and their ham radio equipment, I guess the hams were really yapping it up about their ham equipment during the blackout.
in many parts of the world such as Africa and India. Even the Plain-old-telephone service sometimes has to use HF to bridge the gaps. Microwave works ok when you have enough repeater stations, but HF can bridge the distances better.
See my journal, I write things there
All the technology that you quote apart from satellites requires considerable infrastructure that simply doesn't work or is overloaded during an emergency. Satellite terminals work very well in open country, but they don't like high buildings. A friend of mine had a portable INMARSAT terminal to provide emergency communications. He had to go onto a roof to use it. LEO (Iridium-style) is better, but it still has problems amongst the 'canyon walls' formed by high-rise buildings.
You accuse hams of being stuck in the past. Please remember that the hobby is tightly regulated by the FCC. The fights to even get packet radio accepted took a lot of time.
Yes, the training aspect that you mention is important, but the ability of amateurs to provide emergency support is probably still their best justification for the EM spectrum they occupy.
See my journal, I write things there
I now work for a pretty large and famous computer company known by it's three letter acronym with an active list of a couple thousand known hams. Hams are using (and programming and building) computer interfaces for all sorts of digital modes. We don't wait for you programmers to build it for us. Most of the times it's the other way around. And we're much better programmers, engineers, and technicians than you are because we are in a technical hobby that gives us ways to expand both endeavors - for fun!
So shove your attitude up your bit bucket, Sonny and don't speak about something of which you have no knowledge.
Too lazy to create a sig...
" Many cell towers are equiped with UPSs to work for a couple hours or so, but hardly enough to cover an outage like what we've seen. We've concentrated on building these things cheap. I can't say I blame them -- who expects a two-day-long outage? Even so, many of the backups didn't even work. You could argue that they should have generators for backup, solar panels, gerbil-wheels, or what not, but its our capitalist nature to try and build these things as cheaply as possible. "
Sure the cost issue is huge, especially when u compare to some other operators, like those who operate in Finland, where cell calls costs ~15 cents/min and there is no specific reseaving call fee. And is very parcely populated area. So when cellphone companies get less revenues per capita the infrastructure is still great.
Emacs is good operating system, but it has one flaw: Its text editor could be better.
As we advancing in technology, we become more dependent on electricity.
This reminds me of the time when I tried to keep my shopping list onto my PDA. After an hour of downloading and trying applications, I just took out a stickie pad and jogged down my shopping items.
Some things are primitive, but essential.
I've got a few karma points to burn, and you need to be beaten with a clue stick. I suggest you start with the ARRL.
To call amateur radio operators simply hobbiests does them a disservice. They're licensed by the FCC. Listen on your local repeater the next time some severe thunderstorms roll through. I bet you'll hear a SKYWARN net, courtesy of your local ARES group. What's ARES? This is. They are volunteers that work closely with the National Weather Service. If you're lucky enough to still have an active RACES group in your area, I suggest you go look at that site. FEMA, or the Federal Emergency Management Agency, is the governing body that provides assistance to the local governing bodies, specifically the civil defence bodies that sponsor RACES groups.
Enough examples? No?
Check out an Army or Navy MARS site and note that you can pass a MARSGRAM to any service member, anywhere, through the network of MARS operators. As an amateur radio operator, it was pretty cool to sit (once) at the MARS gateway in Frankfurt, Germany while I was in the Army. More than a handful of messages that came through were on their way to soldiers in Bosnia.
If your metro area lost traditional communications, your local hams would post themselves at the Red Cross, any hospitals, police and fire stations and keep communications going. In fact, this is what they did in New York after the towers came down.
Guess what else. We're volunteers. We don't get paid. In fact, we CAN'T get paid for our radio services. Go read the rules: 47 CFR 97.113(2)
P.S. It says no radio transmissions for hire.
That means every radio operator is out there during emergencies because they want to be. They take an active interest in the community they're serving. They invest in their own rigs and the generators to run them so that they might one day HELP YOU, as well as give them an outlet for their interests. That's a damn sight more dedicated than your whiny, milktoast ass.
-- I'd say your post was about 3 monkeys, 18 minutes.
This idea occur to anyone else? What could be better than an HF net where everyone just talks about linux all the time? :)))
Sorry, but that sort of illiteracy's bloody annoying.
Click the Clicky thing!!!1!!one!!1!11
Your spectrum is unpopular. Good for you. Quite an accomplishment.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Back in the cold war days, the Soviets jammed shortwave broadcast signals that they didn't like.
Why trade away your right to anonymously receive weak signals from distant places because some power companies couldn't be bothered with implementing fibre-optic cabling along their rights of way? Do you trust your government not to become a tyranny in the future, with ever tighter media controls?
If you're in government, why deter your technically-minded citizens from maintaining their hobby networks that they so graciously make available during times of crisis? Do you really want to compromise existing services such as distress calling? What if it is your nationals lost at sea and few if anyone can be bothered to be listening because of all the man-made noise?
And instead of relying on triggerhappy cops, overmuscled firemen and far too-educated paramedics, I should be able to commandeer a FireEngine, CopCar or Ambulance whenever I have a problem....wtf??
...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
For all those who accept illiteracy in the name of evolving language, here's a worthwhile article to read.
>> A lot of people seem to say "Its much more valuable to have thousands of people get broadband internet access than to have ham radio....
You're correct to point out the folly of such opinions.
First, it isn't much of a leap to suggest that expanding broadbnd capabilities plays to the financial and employment prospects of many, or most, Slashdot readers. They're hardly an objective, or even thinking, bunch,
Second, DSL or cable access isn't going to do you much good when there's no electricity to power those PC's.
Third, just what are people supposed to do? Climb back into the rubble and send an email to the Fire Department about the tornado that just wiped out their house? Imagining that the Internet can act as a personal communications tool in an emergency is just that: imagination.
All in all, when the lights go out, I'd much rather have a bunch of licensed and emergency trained amateur radio operators around equipped with battery-powered VHF transceivers than a bunch a suburbanites trying to get their AOL client working.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I am generally pretty down on the Ham community in my part of the world. I've met too many miserable smartarse old bastards in the amatuer "community" whose only fun in their cloistered little lives is to make things hard for people who are interested in getting involved. I've also met a few total d!ckheads who were welcomed in to the fraternity because they fit the image the incumbents wanted.
;-)
;-)
OTOH, I work with a couple of really good, friendly, intelligent guys who are hams. But, 'round here, they're the exception rather than the rule.
Anyway, on to what I really wanted to say: I work in the telecommunications industry. For a while, I was responsible for maintaining the backup power systems in all sites - exchanges (COs), remotes, CAN-E, mobiles, etc - for 1/2 my city. Exchanges generally had 2-4 hours battery backup (+ standby generators), mobile sites usually slightly more, and CAN & customer sites anywhere from 8 hours up to days.
And the one thing I learned in that time is, while people will put up with the power being out for hours on end, they'll bitch like hell if the phone is dead when they want to use it...
Unless, of course, you're running a generator right under their window
(Oh, and I'm surprised nobody yet has mentioned that it's "shone", not "shined"
What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
Some do. My county sheriff's office has it's own ham club complete with a wide coverage repeater and prepositioned equipment at many of their facilities. Our county's emergency manager is licensed ham and a member of the primary club in the county and in fact helps with their main repeater, which is located in the county emergency operations center.
Of course, down here in Florida, we have a higher than average sense of urgency about emergency preparedness.
I thinked so.
Actually, you're on the menu after the cows have gone. Mmmm.... Soylent Green....
Giving up alternative technologies in favor of a single mechanism would be as silly as having most people run the same operating system, since it would make them all vulnerable to common flaws.
For most of the effected areas, coordinating service attempts with local line workers would NOT HAVE ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING. He was talking about a backup system for the grid, one that wouldn't have allowed the failure in the first place. More likely, they worked with emergency personnel (as it says in the article) helping those in need because of the blackout, not people fixing the problem. I think you're confusing "proactive solution to prevent problem" with "fixing problems as they happen". A "REAL backup system" would kick in and [hopefully] be subverted before RACES ever caught wind of this.
--- What
Sometimes it is the only way to call for help. In addition, I would suggest calling for help on ham bands, because that's where you have highest chance that someone would be listening. Listening very carefully.
HAM Radio is dead... Go *BSD!
kill me now...
Don't forget to add "among /.ers" because everyone else will take comfort in being a victim of a great catastrophe.
Laws are for people with no friends.
Of course there's NOTHING stopping any emergency personelle from getting their ham license, and in fact many do and then use ham radio very effectively, after they've learned the ropes. But you'd be hard pressed to convince every EMT and fire fighter in the country to add ham radio training to their already busy schedules. And why bother when you have a pool of active hams that can jump into any emergency situation at a moments notice? Why have EMTs fight fires? It does not make sense. Haveing dedicated ham radio operaters makes sense.
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
All my cool friends were saying the black out was just a Bushco trick to browbeat the intellectually weak into supporting his new energy bill. But now I see it was the ham radio operators saving face....
if the broadband interference goes down (due to power outage) then ham lines should be freed up, right? (i'm not sure, but that's what i'm guessing).
Especially when you consider such projects that combine both ham technology and the internet (voip) like echolink and irlp where they use Linux.
I'm a big fan wireless technology and it's one of the reason's that I just got my ham license. The old stigma of a bunch of old cranky guys on ham will be a thing of the past.
If you can read this sig - the bitch fell off.
Ship-Shore Communication
Military Aviation, Ground Troops, and Command
Super-Secret Spies
Commercial Intercontinential Aviation
FEMA Emergency Communications
Shortwave Radio Broadcasters
Weather Teletype/Telefax
Some Weather and Scientific Satellite Uplinks/Downlinks
I could go on. Each one of these are more efficient uses of the HF spectrum than blasting porn through power lines for the people who have the poor luck to live in an area not served by traditional broadband.
Is it right to interfere with many of these services to provide a service that could be provided in alternative ways that do not interfere with existing users?
I've seen examples of hams with minivans decked out with more long-range microwave equipment than a military command truck.
That sort of thing costs $$$ - The kind of $$$ that many emergency organizations simply don't have.
My interest in ham radio has declined, simply due to lack of people my age in the hobby. Fortunately, I'm in it more for the technical aspects. (I don't even have HF privileges, I just have a Tech class license for VHF+)
Admittedly, HF is getting to be an old dinosaur, but it still has its place. One of the main reasons I'm working on learning Morse to upgrade to a General class license (Unless the FCC drops the code requirement since the ITU no longer requires it, but this is the FCC we're talking about) is because a friend of mine from college is in the Peace Corps in the South Pacific. Apparently with the exception of a $2/minute satellite connection, their only means of communication with the outside world is HF. I'm hoping that once I get my license upgraded I might be able to talk to them occasionally.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
It's amazing the amount of congestion and crap on the airwaves, i was suprised by this when the power went out and i started to flip thru the AM stations, since most of the East was out I could pick up signals from distance places. Located in Windsor Ontario Canada (right across from Detroit) I was able to pick up NYC, Chicago, Des Moines, and Pittsburg stations.
Of coures as more places came online, the signals started to drop out, and i would get more interference between channels, but for that breif time it was like I stepped back in time, where I was able to listen to cities far away.. now i know how the first people to pick up a NYC station in upstate New York must have felt in the 40's..
there is too much chatter and not enough people listening..
Human brain, not human ear.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
CB has three "cousins": MURS, FRS and GMRS.
CB is around 11m (27MHz). It carries long distances when the conditions are right, but cannot be relied upon to do so. You are limited to 4W on AM or 12W on SSB (Single Side Band). Although it is possible to do so, it is illegal to talk to a station that is past a certain distance (150km, I think?). Data is not permitted. The channels are very overcrowded.
MURS is a 5-channel service around 151-154MHz. FM, SSB and AM are both permitted at 2W, but pretty much only FM is found in the wild. A range of 5 miles is not unreasonable. Data is permitted.
FRS is a 14-channel service around 462-467MHz. FM only, 1/2 Watt. The manufacturers claim a 2 mile range is possible, but 1/2 mile is more like it. Very limited data is permitted.
GMRS is a 15-channel service around 462-467MHz. An additional 8 frequencies are available to use as repeater inputs only. Power up to 50W. Range of tens of mile is possible with the use of a repeater. This service shares 7 channels with FRS, giving rise to some hybrid FRS/GMRS radios. This has caused some trouble in the GMRS community because a license is required for GMRS.
None of these services are well-suited to long distance communications, and only GMRS has a mechanism to easily sanction an obstructive user (by license revocation).
Ham radio, on the other hand, has four license classes:
As you move up in the ranks, you gain access to additional frequencies.
All license classes except Technician have access to shortwave or high-frequency (HF) bands, and General and Extra also have access to a mediumwave or medium-frequency (MF) band.
For short-range communicatins, hams have UHF bands around 450MHz, 900MHz, 1200MHz and 2.4GHz (yes, it overlaps with 802.11, and hams have the right-of-way).
For medium-range communications, we have VHF bands around 54MHz, 144MHz and 222MHz.
For long-range communications, we have HF and MF bands around 28MHz, 25MHz, 21MHz, 17MHz, 14MHz, 10MHz, 7MHz, 5MHz, 3.5MHz and 1.8MHz.
Of course, you will be asking why so many. The reason is that propagation characteristics change based on weather, time of day, and frequency. At any given time, you can probably find some band that will get the signal to where you need it.
The HF/MF bands sound like a lot of spectrum, but in fact they are not. The one around 1.8MHz is only 200kHz wide -- the same space taken by a single FM broadcast station. The one around 5MHz is even smaller, consisting of five channels of 2.8kHz each. The largest of the HF bands is the one at 28MHz (called 10m) which runs from 28.000 to 29.700MHz. It is not terribly useful for most of the summer.
Let me finish with an analogy. HAM radio is a beowulf cluster of Pentium 4 machines with 2GB apiece. CB and its cousins are a '386 running DOS.
www.wavefront-av.com
OK, I'll admit that the attribution is flamebait - but think for a moment before modding, please. Perhaps if more people remembered JFK's words - and put them into practice - then folks would accept that citizens helping each other (their community, or country...) wasn't actually a bad thing, but rather behaviour that should be encouraged...?
"MS Windows is like the Force. It has a Dark Side, a Light... damn, there goes that analogy!"
KG4ULP here. Two days after I got my ham radio license (August of last year) my wife and I went camping in western North Carolina in a rather remote area. A day into our trip my car wouldn't start - it seemed to be either a fried alternator or a dead battery. A fellow camper who unsuccesfully jumpered my car had a cell phone but could not hit a tower. The park ranger's office was a few miles away, so there was nobody local to help unless I bummed a ride off somebody the next day (and the ranger's office was open). I had a local repeater programmed into my newly-acquired handheld and nervously identified myself and told the two guys who were chatting on the repeater my predicament. They were extremely friendly and put our minds at ease and helped us out - the next morning a guy who worked in a garage in the nearest town paid us a visit and it turned out my 5 year old car battery had shorted out. He put in a new battery, charged us like $50 for the battery plus house call, and my wife and I could go back to enjoying our vacation.
That's just a small example of ham radio helping out in a (albeit non-emergency) predicament. I never travel without my handheld and it's very rare that I'm in a location where I can't hit a repeater. Hams by their very nature are eager to help and if given the choice of a cell phone or HT for an emergency, my choice would be the HT. Many hams are trained for handling traffic in emergency situations - see earlier posts about ARES and RACES.
Like many reading this I am a technology nut who is heavily reliant on the Internet for both work and play. But there simply is nothing like radio as a method of communication. Radio waves can travel just about anywhere in the atmosphere, which is a medium which can't be broken like a wire, and simple transmitters and receivers are cheap and easy to use. The only exception to that is the HF band in which signals are bounced off the ionosphere for long-distance communication; solar activity can completely wipe out that mode of communication, but it is rare.
It should be emphasized that ham radio operators love to tinker and experiment and in many examples cutting-edge type experiments that started on ham radio have turned into mainstream technology. That is something that the average slashdotter should appreciate.
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
dismissive, elitist asshole
Hmm, I always thought elitists were well educated thinkers. The best of the best. And rare people, not the loud majority.
comment without thoughtful consideration feels more like "dismissive redneck asshole"
And for that Canberra troll, Australian Hams have no funding and no invitation or training to take up stations in frazzled emergency service centres. It seems the situation around New York is somewhat different.
As far as being some help during the Janurary Canberra Bushfires, These guys would have had precisely 10 minutes to know (telepathically?) that the Emergency Headquarters was under threat from the fire and that their power was out (and I still don't understand why they didn't have their own backup power), before the cinders hit the eaves. And then the trusty HAM guys would have needed to load their gear up into trucks, get through several road blocks and then drive in the pitch black smoke to the stricken headquarters to be of any use.
The Govts are trying to get Emergency services their own spectrum (radio frequency range), but even that would not have helped in this situation, and there are problems with the system at the moment anyway (range, blackspots and general reliablitiy). Probably encouraging and training the HAM operators to link up with the emergency services would be a good idea for some time to come.
Nevermind, Canberra actually has a large Defence resource to call on and they didn't know they were needed either. Perhaps we should cut their funding too?
For anyone wondering why interference due to power line broadband is considered a bad thing, well, there ya go."
Yeah, that interference was a real pain in the butt during the Blackout.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Not that I'm for BPL, but if there's a power outage I don't think there will be much broadband over "power lines" that is working. :)
The Emergancy is over, gone, disappeared.
And I thought the editors didn't care.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
The $10 fee is charged by volunteer examiners to cover the costs of administering the exam. It is not a license fee. In many instances such as walk in exams at Ham fests, no fee is charged. License renewal is free if you do it yourself at the FCC web site. Certain volunteer examiners may charge a fee for handling the paperwork.
When the power grid goes down, the interference Goes Away! Magic!
Crazy Al's House of Intertubes - where we make up in volume what we lose per bit...
This is why I still use P2P (Point to Point) communications whenver I can. The only cost is the equipment, no service fees or subscriptions. I haven't seen a virus infect any CPU in a radio yet...!
(Well, it may happen eventually... the side effect of connecting your computer to your radio or scanner, I suppose.)
-- Liberalism is a mental disorder.
I'd argue that, instead of relying on grungy old men with ham radios, that emergency personel should have access to ham radios. The equipment's a little more complicated than what they're used to. Not that they can't be trained; but, the hams are more efficient and deploy during any disaster to help. As a ham operator, I co-trained with by local rescue groups (as in more than one) and would deploy with them to provide communications. Not only did they get the additional service (emergency communications) but they got a spare set of hands.
I have five antennas on my truck. What's wrong with antennas?
-Alan, KD5FJK
Is how some of the other slashdotters don't seem to care - they all seem to have the "me me me" opinion. The "I don't care if a tornado hits me cause I just want to download pr0n all day!"
It absoluetly sickens me as a HAM and also a member of SKYWARN to see this type of attitude coming from people.
Just remember, HAMs are out there, risking their lives so you can have your broadband. If you want broadband, get DSL...or Cable...or for crying out loud, if your pr0n is that important to you, get a T-1 to our house. Otherwise, quit your complaining, and let us HAMs do our job to save your life.
One thing that I havn't noticed anybody mention... Cell phones cannot talk to each other. They MUST have radio access to a cell tower. You can be standing next to someone and their phone will NOT talk to yours unless both of them can receive the signals from a tower.
As was made painfully obvious when hurricane Andrew ripped through South Florida, cell towers will not work when they become "horizontally polarized" (laying on their side)... I was down in the Homestead area for 3 weeks after "A-day"... I worked with the local police, EMS, Red Cross, National Guard, Salvation Army, and countless number of simple people who lost everything and were desperate to contact their loved ones outside of the disaster area, to let them know they were still alive. In one day alone, I personally sent out over 450 health and welfare messages on the packet network.
Every year North American amateurs have what's called a "Field Day". The purpose of Field Day is to get away from your home, in a local park or some other public place, and operate for 24 hours without commercial power. To simulate emergency conditions. To demonstrate to the public that HAM radio is still very much alive. This past year's slogan was "When all else fails..." When all else fails, I *CAN* take a 5 watt radio and a couple hundred feet of whatever wire I can lay my hands on, and set up a communications station. Can you do that with cellular technology? I didn't think so...
And by the way... After I left Homestead, after 20 days in the area, my cellphone STILL did not work until I got half-way back to Tampa... Yeah... Great technology to rely on when the shit hits the fan...
My apologies for the flame tone of this reply... It just pisses me off when someone who really does NOT have a clue about what they are talking about makes meaningless blanket statements about things they know nothing of... The PHB's absolutely LOVE those types...
The number 1 problem of working in a cubicle - 23 power cords, 1 outlet...
I don't know why people didn't just use the regular phone. The phone always seems to work even when the power is out, and when the phone goes out, the power always seems to be on.
Eat at Joe's.
What is it with the southern accents and audio communication? When that Yahoo voice chat first came out I went and listened. Everyone sounded like a trucker from Alabama.
Eat at Joe's.
Cell phones work on the gigahertz frequencies. ( Yeah like your microwave oven but cell phones don't have enough juice to cook your ear. ) Working on the GHz frequency lets cell phones get by with a really short antenna. Ham is at most MHz and AM is KHz. The antennas required would be way too long to use in cell phones.
Eat at Joe's.
Plus, a lot of county emergency coordinators are also Hams. Many actually do drills in addition to field day to help make sure the coordination is there. I'm sure the taxpayers would complain about the government buying a couple of million dollars worth of radios that would only be used in emergencies. A government will also design a radio system to fit a specific need. They do not usually do a good job of coordination. In many cases, they prefer to segregate their radio systems for their emergency services. Add to this, most emergency service personal are not trained in efficient radio operations. The hams that help in emergency operation usually drill and train to improve the efficiencey of the communications so it is not a garbled mess of crosstalk.
Some will say, well, they should train the emergency services people in radio operations. Maybe. But would you rather have your officers and firefighters out trying to take care of the situation or manning radio control stations? The hams help relieve some of this communication burden and work with emergency angencies to their primary job. It is not just a lot of folks showing up asking to help. These people have drilled and trained, on their own time and with their own money, in addition to providing their own support equipment to help the emergency services do thier job at no cost to the people. All they need is access to their radio spectrum in order to provide this service. So the question is this, would you rather pay hundreds of millions in extra taxes and trust your government to actually come up with a system that works as well and will actually work when needed[think hard about how well government usually does this]? Or is high speed internet access for surfing pr0n so important that we need to kill this very useful and important public service off?
What are you smokin'?
I don't know what your HT does that mine doesn't. Without using a repeater, a handheld is good for a couple miles if you are lucky. If it wasn't for a repeater on top of a mountain or on a 500ft tower, your HT would be pretty short-range too.
"For anyone wondering why interference due to power line broadband is considered a bad thing, well, there ya go"
Uhhh for the one time in 10 years or so that its Ham radio is actually needed? Oh and not to mention that when the power goes out so does the interference so its kind of a pointless arguement.
1.) POTS (plain-old-telephone-service) generally works during a power outage due to the fact that most systems (and this is overly simplified) are span-powered from the CO, and the CO runs on Batts/gens.
2.) Most modern (late 80's on up) Fed, State, and Local orgs use auto-trunking and/or DES technology, which is useless during a mass-outage because the trunking repeater is the pivot-man in the circle-jerk.
3.) HF is a reliable long-range solution for a back-up comms method. 100 watts will, in the right hands, get you anywhere you need to go, nation or world-wide.
4.) The digital auto-trunking, and SELCALL infrastructure is a luxurious crutch. It automates some of the more intelligence-oriented human overhead that was used in outdated COMMS nets.
5.) Relying on deregulated local exchange carriers and cell phone companies is a fool's back-up plan. These businesses are profit driven, and the first thing they tend to whack when driving profits is the maintenance and reliability of their systems.
We're advancing ourselves out of any kind of reliability and redundancy. The comms infrastructure is becoming non-backwards compatible, more maintenance intensive, and in the end, less user friendly. Some of our nation's larger cities are using a communications system that looks like it was designed by Rube Goldberg - it works, and it's a hoot to watch it work, but it's overly complicated for the simple reason of removing human interaction.
The fewer moving parts (or active components) the more reliable the product.
I'm a Verizon customer in SE Michigan. My cell service went out 5 minutes after the power failed, and didn't come back for 24 hours. I had SIGNAL; the tower was up, but I couldn't connect to anything, not even in-system; I couldn't dial my wife's cell phone even when we were both in the same room, nor could I get to my voicemail.
This was true as I drove around many miles and skipped to other towers, even when I went out of town and was roaming if I was still in an outage area. I only had service during this period when I drove over to a town that had power, and was roaming on another company's towers.
I got my license at age 14.
It's 'shone'.
Yea, HAM is all that...sure.
Ham is basically CB radio who's wavelength allows it to carry a much further distance.
The downside to being a Ham is that even hard core geeks think you are a geek. Most Hams I know are just waiting for the world to end so they can rule the universe.
I guess it's nice to know that the only time you can be special is when the world is collapsing.
-1
the choice is yours MORE high speed data.....or the safety of your loved ones so I dont see where you all get off on takeing away more and more HAM Radio bands away! RACES plays a important part of in all EOC *Emer Ops Center* drills and In real life
Linux is like living in a teepee. No Windows, no Gates, Apache in house.
> grungy old men with ham radios
:)
I take a shower and I'm only 23. Admittedly I'm in the minority, but perhaps you should refrain from using such generalizations... unless of course you really are a 12 year old poster from Usenet
> emergency personel should have access to ham radios
Many police, fire, and EMT personnel are also licensed amateur radio operators. In a real emergency there is often quite a bit of crosstalk. Of course, even public service communications are becoming more network-like (central repeaters, trunking, etc.) Amateur radio "nets" can be brought online in seconds in a peer-to-peer mode, and many of the truly dedicated hams have generators, solar panels, gerbil-wheels, etc for when their batteries go out.
-- Kevin, N8VNR
Most non-commercial traffic would still be allowed, and for me that's a huge part of my Internet use: .edu, .gov. and .org domains
- You could still access
- You could participate in Slashdot-style chats
- Most research, technical support, and general information stuff would be legal
- Searching for information on commercial products and services would mostly be legal
- Most email that isn't spam would be legal
Likely, only direct ecommerce would not be allowed. You'd have to order goods and services elsewhere.
Still a lot there to provide value
Walt Dubose, assistant chairman of the ARRL High Speed Multimedia (HSMM) Working Group, sent me his comments to post on here. (Yes, he writes the stuff, I get the good karma, life is good.)
{Negative Comment}
"I'd much rather have a REAL backup system than spend money reducing power line interference for HAM radio operators."
{Comments by Walt DuBose/K5YFW wdubose@satx.rr.com, San Antonio, Texas}
Historically, local and state government agencies and even disaster relief agencies have desired and needed emergency or contingency communications. In every case where they have tried to budget for such positions, this is what they have found...and I will use figures based on what has been found in the local San Antonio, Texas economy...
Hardware cost including radios (10), base station/repeater station (2), maintenance, control (including computer(s) for control operators) = $50,000.
Radio operator cost (salary at $45,000 per year plus overhead cost $30,000 for employee costs) = $75,000
Need was 10 radio operators and 3 control operators. The employee cost was 13 X $75,000 or $975,000.
With an initial investment of $1,250,000. recurring (yearly) cost were $985,000.
You must realize that amateur radio operators can communicate with each other. However, a local or state government or disaster relief organization such as the Red Cross does not have this "freedom". They can communicate within their own radio network and either purchase radios for another agencies radio communications network (assumes that there is an agreement between the agencies to allow this). If for example the Red Cross needs to communicate with the local emergency operations center (EOCs), then they must purchase a radio network. If they need to talk to the local hospital network, then they must purchase a radio for that network.
As you can see, the hardware cost are small. The cost of employees dedicated to emergency communications is expensive. If you have that individual doing another job during non-emergency conditions, when they take their position as an emergency communicator, the job that they normally do goes undone. to communicate on the
Use of amateur radio operators. Initial investment = $0.00. Recurring cost = $0.00.
From this, I believe that you can see that an agency cannot afford to employ individuals for only emergency communications.
So NOW perhaps you can see why amateur radio operators are so important.
{Other Previous Positive Comments}
I think you have no understanding of the nature of emergency services. At it's best, emergency services are controlled chaos. Under "other "...Under "other than normal" circumstances it's a complete crapshoot. Having the assistance of *trained* citizens is invaluable, and is a lot more common than you obviously think. The emergency services are there to help you, not....
And, quite frankly, all these ultra-high tech communications systems the emergency services use are really nice under normal circumstances, but are completely [exp. deleted] useless when the main systems fail. Many modern vehicle radios *cannot* talk directly to another mobile unit (multi-frequency). The transmission is sent to a tower, and relayed to the other vehicle/handheld. If the tower fails, every radio in the field becomes a high-dollar piece of junk.
If no one is left using the technology because of problems under normal conditions, these people won't be there to save your [backside] when you need paramedics called and the phones don't work.
To call amateur radio operators simply hobbyists does them a is service. They're licensed by the FCC. Listen on your local repeater [artscipub.com] the next time some severe thunderstorms roll through. I bet you'll hear a SKYWARN [skywarn.org] net, courtesy of your local ARES [google.com] group. What's ARES? This is. [arrl.org] They are volunteers that work closely with the National Weather Service. If you're lucky enough to still have an active
No, it cannot be used for broadcasting, but isn't it a good feeling that there's one piece of the spectrum dedicated to the overweight geek tinkering in his basement? Why on earth would you want to give that up, just so now your regional power company can get into bed with AOL, too?
Enjoy the vitamin deficiency. Long after hygenic meat consumption practices have become the norm in the backwards continent of Europe, you will still be abusing your body under the guise of health or dubious moral claims.
Quote: I always find the ham perspective interesting. If their rig interferes with the neighbor's TV, they claim that the TV manufacturer is to blame. But when powerline carrier broadband interferes with their rigs, they blame the power company.
Perhaps I can shed some light on this.
It's because the FCC designates the rules:
Title 47, CFR Section 15.5 General conditions of operation (B) Operation of an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator is subject to the conditions that no harmful interference is caused and that interference must be accepted that may be caused by the operation of an authorized radio station (my emphasis), by another intentional or unintentional radiator, by industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) equipment, or by an incidental radiator.
(C) The operator of the radio frequency device shall be required to cease operating the device upon notification by a commission representative that the device is causing harmful interference. Operation shall not resume until the condition causing the harmful interference has been corrected.
Title 47, CFR Section 15.15 General technical requirements (C) c) Parties responsible for equipment compliance should note that the limits specified in this part will not prevent harmful interference under all circumstances. Since the operators of Part 15 devices are required to cease operation should harmful interference occur to authorized users of the radio frequency spectrum, the parties responsible for equipment compliance are encouraged to employ the minimum field strength necessary for communications, to provide greater attenuation of unwanted emissions than required by these regulations, and to advise the user as to how to resolve harmful interference problems.
To quote Sharon Bowers, Deputy Chief of Consumer Inquiries & Complaint Division, Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau:
"Harmful interference to a licensed radio service from a Part 15 device is a violation of FCC Rules. Specifically, the manufacturer is responsible for device certification. The device owner however is responsible for operating the device in such a manner that it does not cause interference. Manufacturers will often bear some of this responsibility as a courtesy to their customers. We encourage the parties and manufacturers involved to voluntarily resolve this matter without FCC intervention.
The FCC makes it clear, and the key words here are LICENSED STATION (emphasis, not yelling): Your TV can't interfere with my licensed station. Your TV must accept any radiation from my licensed station. It's the operator of said TV that is responsible for interference with my licensed station, and it's only the manufacturer's courtesy to their customers that they bear some of said responsibility. Likewise, if the powerlines are incidental radiators, and it's interfering with a licensed station, who's fault is it?
Most hams aren't assholes and they'll try to work with you if you don't come at them like it's their fault. On the other hand, if your TV has the shielding of a cardboard box, get out your tinfoil, because the FCC can shut you down if I complain.
From a ham's point of view it looks like this: "You're breaking the rules and messing up my Spongebob Squarepants." "What? No, I'm not. I had to learn the rules forward and backward to get my Expert license. [Insert manufacturer slam here]" As a ham, we're governed by what we can do, according to the FCC. There is no FCC license required to operate a TV, and most consumers do not realize what that Part 15 notice actually means to them.
-- I'd say your post was about 3 monkeys, 18 minutes.
So if the power was out, how can broadband power line interfer with HAM radios.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shine
Check the dictionary before commenting on "illiteracy", dumbass.
i have a two hampsterwheel setup, that outputs 12 volts at around .5-1 amp that i can use to charge my battery pack (sealed lead acid 12volt 4Ah) in case of emergancies!
Don't be so sure you know no hams, it ain't always obvious...
Lotsa us obsolete old upstart hams have backup systems in sealed metal containers, with backup power systems. EMP isn't all-destroying, y'know. A good deal of RF gear is quite well-hardened. And those creaky old vacuum-tube boat anchors some of us insist on running just laugh at EMP effects. That's why we call it "wireless telegraphy". And yes, we DO still grok Morse...
On a more practical and likely note, history suggests that we hams will be the ones coordinating the Red Cross efforts to get your collective sorry ass rescued, fed and medically treated (along with all your neighbors, unless you have supplies for them, too?) when the more-likely next hurricane, major fire, or terrorist attack hits. We're sprinkled all around, and yes, some of us DO carry emergency go-kits every damn place we go, so we can set up comms networks very, very quickly.
73 de N1XNX
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
Yeah, about what I thought.
Cheers, Peter, W2IRT
vi/emacs! kde/gnome! windows/linux/bsd! ford/chevy!
/. would have a tough time handling that flame war.
Something, anything but code/no-code! Even
What is amazing is people who have an oppinion about something they know nothing about! Emergency communications!
How many of you non-hams even knew that ham radio was involved during the 9/11 terrorist attacks?
Or during every hurricane that hits land anywhere in the world?
That it was a ham radio operator risking his life to transmit out to the rest of the world when Iraq invaded Kuwait?
Or that hams assist during brush fires, communications failures in a hospital? Hams are the storm spotters refered to by the weather men on TV and at the National Weather Service. And they are the first into the affected area after a tornado hit, working for the Red Cross to assess the damage. Hams assist with communcations after ice storms and blizzards when the power lines are down! They helped with the Space Shuttle Columbia recovery. They help with search and rescue missions all the time. There is hardly a week goes by that ham radio is not active somewhere helping with communications after some disaster. Large or small.
Did you know that ham radio operators help with communications for the Boston Marathon, the Rose Parade and at the Olympics?
So why is it that FEMA, the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, local law enforcement and fire departments ask for help from hams? Because we are not dependent on any infrastructure. We are point to point and have established networks that help keep communications flowing. What might sound like casual conversation most of the time is really networking. A ham in Los Angeles talks to a ham in New York and another in Kansas City. When the need to get a message through and powerlines are down in your area (and this happens all the time, it keeps those linemen from the power companies busy) that ham in another part of the country is the who you call to help get communications started. How do you make a random call for help on a cell phone or on the internet?
Here's what I had to say:
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
Ham radio has reached the "bleeding edge of antiquity" but this fact has escaped the notice of these breast-beating hams too busy to notice that nothing above 450mhz has been used during emergencies, making the spectrum argument a moot one. No 900 trunking, 900 digital nor 900 voice has been deployed in the 26MHz we are allocated. None! Even though 900 equipment is available surplus, no one has the vision to attempt at using that band. This clearly shows how far ham radio has slid behind the pace of cutting edge technology. No wireless data above 9600 baud, now how outdated is that?
Everytime there is an emergency, I cringe thinking of how hams are likely to be the dragging anchor of interoperability. The quality of operations has deteriorated to a point where you must sift though the BS to get to the point!!!
Preoccupation with rules & callsign identification shows the true anal-retentive side of the evolved ham radio persona. This crosses over to the internet where the same people demand you ID. I don't have to, there is no rule saying I must! Self importance is not a selling point, it is a hinderance.
Personally I see the FCC taking most if not all above 2.4GHz, if not 902-928 after dropping the CW test. While they are at it, I wish they would drop the incentive licensing crap. 1 license, 1 purpose, to talk! CW can exist but not as a testing "filter". Anyone who belives that Extra class hams know any more than Generals is dreaming. The ARRL created incentive licensing in order to keep the bookstand business bubbling over!!
Hams are the only FCC licensees to have multiple license classes for the FCC to track! What a pain in the ass & under current climate, what I suggest just might save the FCC a bunch of money by streamlining the license structure to KISS standards!
All you who balk at such a revelation are likely the ARRL(renamed ANAAL) crowd who like lemmings, follow the idiots in Newington into the ideaology wasteland. Anyone who doubts, just look at the comments here or on the FCC ECFS regarding BPL. These guys can't even spell or make complete sentences, yet, these ANAAL folks have stoked them into flames of opinion!!! Facts be damned, these guys fall off the map!
I have held my General license for 21 years & I have been a Shortwave Listener for 30 years. I never thought I would be ashamed of being associated with ham radio operation but I find myself doing so recently.
I have raised these issues on the air on 7240 & 3910 & actually sway many to agree with my position. I also see FRS, GMRS, MURS along with "dot/star" radio use explode as a much more popular mode of communication than ham radio Tech class popularity!
Ham radio hasn't brought new "leading edge" technology in 20 years, since TCP/IP & RATS meetings in Nutley NJ!!!
Get over it ham radio geeks, the whole world has antennas now, we are no longer unique...
But what's the frequency Kenneth?
It ain't ham radio frequencies, that much I am willing to bet on!
TowerMan NOCALL-1
..It's saved everyone's butt because no one took it seriously. Once terrorists make a grand plan to take out power, cell phones, and the Internet, they'll say "Ah, Habib, recall the HAM radio bail out of the great black out? It was a sleeper agent of the devil, so let's add it to the list."
Also, I called a girl I know who was in Cleveland right at the black out on her cell phone. She was jammed in traffic by result of the power outage. Got through just fine. Maybe I contributed to the overload of cell phone circuits. (shrug).
"Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity."
no/text -- Slow Down Cowboy! Slashdot requires you to wait 20 seconds between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.
We've secretly replaced Slashdot with new Folgers Crystals - let's see if it notices.
For those who have them, the BlackBerry infrastructure and service was also functioning fine. Although the voice/email functionality was affected, the PIN to PIN abilities were unimpeded. Basically the same as during 9/11.
Cheers,
Toe
"The difference between meat and fish is that if you beat your fish it dies"
" Ham radio has reached the "bleeding edge of antiquity" but this fact has escaped the notice of these breast-beating hams too busy to notice that nothing above 450mhz has been used during emergencies, making the spectrum argument a moot one. No 900 trunking, 900 digital nor 900 voice has been deployed in the 26MHz we are allocated. None! Even though 900 equipment is available surplus, no one has the vision to attempt at using that band. This clearly shows how far ham radio has slid behind the pace of cutting edge technology. No wireless data above 9600 baud, now how outdated is that?"
:(
900 is an especially dead band due to the fact that (I believe) amateurs have a rather low-priority assignment there and hence the band basically... Sucks.
I think there's more activity on 1.2 GHz than 900.
We do have wireless data above 9600, but it's insanely rare and the cost is absurd. The status quo for amateur data is 1200 bps AFSK.
"Preoccupation with rules & callsign identification shows the true anal-retentive side of the evolved ham radio persona. This crosses over to the internet where the same people demand you ID. I don't have to, there is no rule saying I must! Self importance is not a selling point, it is a hinderance."
Admittedly, we do need FCC rules in this regard. But I will admite that amateurs are overly anal-retentive about IDing and callsigns.
Two weeks after getting my license, I made a call on a repeater. I got a reply, "This is only for licensed amateur use, I am shutting this repeater down." *click*. Hmm, not licensed? What's this piece of paper from the FCC here?
I tried again 15 minutes later, and someone else apologized that he had misheard my call as A2YPH (which is indeed invalid.) Rather than asking me to repeat my call in phonetics (which I would readily have done), he simply shut down the repeater. Real nice way to make someone feel welcome in the community.
And as to Phil's comments about hams clinging to the past... All one has to do is look at any code vs. no-code debate on eham.net or qrz.com. For those not familiar with amateur radio, think of combining vi vs. emacs, GNOME vs KDE, and every other "holy war" topic you can think of and rolling it into one debate. Then multiply the severity by ten times. You now have code vs. no-code. (In short, a significant majority of amateurs seem to be insistent on clinging to Morse code, an antiquated relic of the past.)
Andy Dodd, N2YPH
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Your experience on the repeater is what I speak of even on the internet. Since ham licenses are public domain, it seems to me once you give your call, it is open season unlike anyone else on the internet. Even EchoLink, the saviour of AH hams, revolves around ID'ing while listening! RadioOverIP far outstrips the EchoLink anal-tenetive ID'ing of listening streams. Why don't they just inhibit transmit function rather than requiring a callsign tp listen remotely on the computer? Seems far too shortsighted in my opinion!
Ham radio is no longer unique, although these guys claim to "respond", 99% is all hot air across your speaker grill. Then they have the nerve to call you a CB'er. Getting jammed on HF or VHF because of your opinion is pretty sad but it is happening...
I predict the FCC will not only drop CW, they're going to streamline class of licenses do it makes things really simple... Close the ARRL bookstore!!!
I give you alot of credit, you see thing really as they are except 900. There is no excuse because hams can override Part 15 devices on the band. Cybikos should be everywhere, yet they are no where except for a few guys who see the light!
There is no excuse except for the endless whining of old CW OF's that just see it as "my way or the hiway" although they fail to see the problem. We are prevented from even using current technology on our bands!!! The licensed services far outstrip the ham ability. 900 trunking would get stalled over "the legal debate" while everyone else is moving on & above the voice/data standards...
I lack the ability to express the point any further. I tis a shame that 2.4 Part 15 devices don;t have a root in ham radio, other than they use our frequency, although these guys will ask who it is, instead of what did they say???
2-2 Roach Radio
"I give you alot of credit, you see thing really as they are except 900. There is no excuse because hams can override Part 15 devices on the band. Cybikos should be everywhere, yet they are no where except for a few guys who see the light!"
Yeah, we can override them, but overriding QRM means running more power, and more power costs $$$. Considering that hams often push their links to the limits, that means that even though we can legally override part 15 devices in the 900 band, the 900 band is still, well... Useless.
Would you want to run EME on 900 with all that QRM? I wouldn't.
Plus, IIRC, the amateur radio service is a tertiary service in 900 (i.e. there are two other services with priority over us) rather than a secondary service in most other bands. (With the primary service being the military - Fortunately they rarely have a need to use their primary allocations in the ham bands, so for all practical purposes we are the primaries in most bands. 900 is an exception.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I agree with your comments.
Regardless of our allocation status on 902-928, there isn't any development of the band. Lack of a primary allocation should never have stopped the manufacturing of radios for the band either! Even conversion of commercial equipment has not evolved to what I would have expected. Now I have simply lowered my expectations of the service & its' participants. Considering the comments here, on QRZ, eHam & newgroups, I am actually embarassed to be lumped in with these shortsighted twits!
What I find amazing is the fact all these backpatters fail to understand that we are prevented from doing speed & modes available to be done license free! Take a good look around or type in a frequency range into Google just to see what comes up. It won't be ham radio related, it will likely be Part 15 devices!
Say I wanted a DSL shot over RF, I can't do it with my ham license but I can do it under Part 15. So much for the "leading edge" argument! We are dragging anchor but most don't seem to notice the pace has long passed us by!
We are no longer the only ones with antennas, mobile radios are not rare. Flip phones, PDA's & 2-way pagers outstrip the state of currently available amateur equipment for years now. A 1200 baud TNC in a radio is about as "high-tech" as it goes & the 2 makers of them (Alinco & Kenwood) are hanging by a thread in the amateur market!
You can also add the FRS/GMRS/MURS fever that has eclipsed the Technician class licensees by quickly populating those frequencies. This is true even out here in rural America. Activity is year round, not just during hunting season or warm weather. In fact during this winter's ice storm & power outage, I heard much more activity on FRS than all of ham radio (VHF/UHF)combined. Granted you can choose to do more with Amateur Radio but 90% of it is talking. How much more is there? License Free & Part 15 devices satisfy the need to simply communicate.
Sorry all who think the world revolves around ham radio. It clearly doesn't anymore. I try to be realistic in my views based on my 30 years in radio. I follow commercial wireless closely & work in the business, it is easy for me to say they clearly have us beat! Although I have a great stake in ham radio, I really have found the OF's have depressed the "hobby" so far, little can save it from its' own demise.
Pushing this supposed "public service" with voice nets, NTS messages & endless self praise will only seal this fate...
Phil has always been right about this & he remains right on target today!
When will the clueless figure out reality?
2-2!
Roach Radio