While it can be worthwhile thinking up extreme hypothetical situations, yours is ill-informed: The whole point is that these endangered species don't have any natural predators - which is exactly why the rats are so devastating.
I was going to compose a much longer response but if you've now decided that you will play devil's advocate, there doesn't seem much point.
NZ has a high proportion of ground nesting birds because, with the exception of bats, it has no native mammals.
Rats (and other species introduced into NZ such as possums) eat the eggs of these birds. They are a clear cause of the decline in numbers of such wonderful birds as the kiwis and the kakapo.
It really isn't *rocket surgery* to realise that if you remove the predators you will do something to save the bird populations.
Your points:
1) we don't really have enough information to perfectly reproduce the former system. Instead all we're doing is trying to cut out the obvious variable of a single human introduced species. Does killing all the rats make everything go back to normal?
No, killing all the rats does not make everything go back to normal: Killing all the rats preserves the remaining endangered bird species.
2) Even if we did know exactly what changes were made, it's doubtful that we could exert a level of control over the ecosystem to return all pieces to pre-human conditions. It's far more likely that we'll simply create further imbalance. What about the species which are already extinct, how do you reintroduce them?
Well, no, you can't re-introduce extinct species (Jurassic Park scenario excepted). Obviously. But no-one is talking about putting everything back *exactly* to how it was before the introduction of rats (which was done by Europeans in the 18th C, and therefore not in NZ's pre-human times); all we can do is stop the damage going any further and slam on the brakes now.
Sure, we might not "really have enough information" to sort things out properly, but we can make a start with the obvious stuff, can't we? So let;s not get bogged down with the fuzzy Gaia rubbish about balance and life etc when valuable DNA is going up the chimney.
If anyone wants to help NZ wildlife directly, check out Possum Fur Nipple Warmers - products made from the skins on NZ's wildlife enemy #1!
at some point we need to decide how much backtracking we want to do
How about we stop when we've corrected as many of our f*ck ups as we can?
To not do anything in a situation like this would allow further native habitat and endangered species to be destroyed and so would be grossly negligent; are we going to let more species go the way of the giant moas or do something about it?
Try not to demonstrate your private apathy publicly - these are serious issues whether you give a damn or not.
You've been suckered. Those things are gimmicky and lightweight and from personal experience I can say that while they might have an 'industrial', that doesn't mean they're suitable for an industrial environment or even cleaning up after DIY, for example.
What you really need is one of these babies. Now that's a design classic.
It's no use posting anonymously, you little bitch, I know who you are!
Where's your subscription cheque for google.com? YOU OWE ME MONEY! You've been using those portals without paying me too. You just better pay me soon or I'm gonna SUE YOU! And if I find you've been trying to sneak a use of hotmail, then you're in some serious do-do.
Hey - you can get all different kinds of Palm devices! There's one for playing games and there's another one for doing science stuff! Palm and Sony make Palm devices for use as organisers! Cool! Tune in next week for "There's these things called peripherals that you can plug into your computer to make it do stuff!" What? You mean I'm actually getting paid for this?! This is like, so cool!
My god - what I wouldn't give to get my hands on one of these things.
Where I live, streets that contain straight stretches of longer than about 10m are a target for the local petrol heads with their turbos. The only thing is, that in order to get the turbo to fire (which they like - it lets people know they can afford turbo - even if they only have a hatchback and they work in the local supermarket), they need to over-rev the engine even when they're taking they're mum to the shops. The sonic effect is something like;
This is a FREE (as in beer) service provided by the Direct Marketing Association. Once you sign up, it is actually illegal for telesales marketroids to phone you up!
While you're at it, you can sign up for the Mailing Preference Service (this one saves trees as well as your patience), the Faxing Preference Service and the Emailing Preference Service.
1. Not sure 'beer' should be associated with Miller. 2. Not sure enjoyment of Miller is possible when used as a beverage. 3. Though maybe possible for washing hair.
A bonus is *not* something that an employer is required or expected to give to an employee.
My heart bleeds for the poor corporations whose nasty, greedy employees keep making them feel guilty about sharing the money!
Many companies - especially financials - pay a significant portion of their employees' remuneration in the form of bonuses. In this case it is certainly required and expected and quite probably committed to by the company. The cynical might even suggest that these companies pay their employees in this manner just so that they can cut pay at will.
Other companies which have a long standing policy of giving bonuses are obliged by courtesy and decency to continue doing so or explain themselves.
If people rely on this money, then they should damn well expect it and it should damn well be given, too.
Slashdot Mirror
While it can be worthwhile thinking up extreme hypothetical situations, yours is ill-informed:
The whole point is that these endangered species don't have any natural predators - which is exactly why the rats are so devastating.
I was going to compose a much longer response but if you've now decided that you will play devil's advocate, there doesn't seem much point.
NZ has a high proportion of ground nesting birds because, with the exception of bats, it has no native mammals.
Rats (and other species introduced into NZ such as possums) eat the eggs of these birds. They are a clear cause of the decline in numbers of such wonderful birds as the kiwis and the kakapo.
It really isn't *rocket surgery* to realise that if you remove the predators you will do something to save the bird populations.
Your points:
1) we don't really have enough information to perfectly reproduce the former system. Instead all we're doing is trying to cut out the obvious variable of a single human introduced species. Does killing all the rats make everything go back to normal?
No, killing all the rats does not make everything go back to normal: Killing all the rats preserves the remaining endangered bird species.
2) Even if we did know exactly what changes were made, it's doubtful that we could exert a level of control over the ecosystem to return all pieces to pre-human conditions. It's far more likely that we'll simply create further imbalance. What about the species which are already extinct, how do you reintroduce them?
Well, no, you can't re-introduce extinct species (Jurassic Park scenario excepted).
Obviously.
But no-one is talking about putting everything back *exactly* to how it was before the introduction of rats (which was done by Europeans in the 18th C, and therefore not in NZ's pre-human times); all we can do is stop the damage going any further and slam on the brakes now.
Sure, we might not "really have enough information" to sort things out properly, but we can make a start with the obvious stuff, can't we? So let;s not get bogged down with the fuzzy Gaia rubbish about balance and life etc when valuable DNA is going up the chimney.
If anyone wants to help NZ wildlife directly, check out Possum Fur Nipple Warmers - products made from the skins on NZ's wildlife enemy #1!
at some point we need to decide how much backtracking we want to do
How about we stop when we've corrected as many of our f*ck ups as we can?
To not do anything in a situation like this would allow further native habitat and endangered species to be destroyed and so would be grossly negligent; are we going to let more species go the way of the giant moas or do something about it?
Try not to demonstrate your private apathy publicly - these are serious issues whether you give a damn or not.
Bugger. I meant to say "'industrial' design".
You've been suckered. Those things are gimmicky and lightweight and from personal experience I can say that while they might have an 'industrial', that doesn't mean they're suitable for an industrial environment or even cleaning up after DIY, for example.
What you really need is one of these babies. Now that's a design classic.
It's no use posting anonymously, you little bitch, I know who you are!
Where's your subscription cheque for google.com? YOU OWE ME MONEY! You've been using those portals without paying me too. You just better pay me soon or I'm gonna SUE YOU! And if I find you've been trying to sneak a use of hotmail, then you're in some serious do-do.
Summary of this article...
Hey - you can get all different kinds of Palm devices! There's one for playing games and there's another one for doing science stuff! Palm and Sony make Palm devices for use as organisers! Cool!
Tune in next week for "There's these things called peripherals that you can plug into your computer to make it do stuff!"
What? You mean I'm actually getting paid for this?! This is like, so cool!
My god - what I wouldn't give to get my hands on one of these things.
Where I live, streets that contain straight stretches of longer than about 10m are a target for the local petrol heads with their turbos. The only thing is, that in order to get the turbo to fire (which they like - it lets people know they can afford turbo - even if they only have a hatchback and they work in the local supermarket), they need to over-rev the engine even when they're taking they're mum to the shops. The sonic effect is something like;
"BRRRMMM!! (phssh) BRRRRRMMM phsssshhh BRMMRMRM phssh"
I would like to hear something like;
"BRRRMMM!! (phssh) BRRRRRMMM ph...ZAP! SHAZAM! phsszzzppt. put...put......put."
Show those suckers.
Plenty of people exist with both. No miracle, just unusual.
My computer hath been able to read lithpth for yearth.
Not 'cooler', but 'cool'! i.e. it might have some cache if there was any point to it at all!!!
What a waste of effort!
If you ever get this bored, please consider donating time to a voluntary environmental organisation.
HELLO!!
Yeah, I'm reading Slashdot.
No, it's rubbish!
Ciao!
A bit of stylus work should get you started!
knowing full well what buggery implies, of course
A warm and caring relationship?
Visit The Telephone Preference Service.
This is a FREE (as in beer) service provided by the Direct Marketing Association. Once you sign up, it is actually illegal for telesales marketroids to phone you up!
While you're at it, you can sign up for the Mailing Preference Service (this one saves trees as well as your patience), the Faxing Preference Service and the Emailing Preference Service.
If anyone can get me a steak of this thing, I will pay handsomely.
To qualify for a Darwin, they would have to actually kill themselves, or burn their gonads off at least.
I have exactly the right kind of memories for the kind of person I am, which is a computer programmer.
Funny, though, seems like I'm a crack shot and a kung fu expert having had no training whatsoever. And I get these headaches!
'Enjoy "Miller" brand beer'
1. Not sure 'beer' should be associated with Miller.
2. Not sure enjoyment of Miller is possible when used as a beverage.
3. Though maybe possible for washing hair.
A bonus is *not* something that an employer is required or expected to give to an employee.
My heart bleeds for the poor corporations whose nasty, greedy employees keep making them feel guilty about sharing the money!
Many companies - especially financials - pay a significant portion of their employees' remuneration in the form of bonuses. In this case it is certainly required and expected and quite probably committed to by the company. The cynical might even suggest that these companies pay their employees in this manner just so that they can cut pay at will.
Other companies which have a long standing policy of giving bonuses are obliged by courtesy and decency to continue doing so or explain themselves.
If people rely on this money, then they should damn well expect it and it should damn well be given, too.
Did the 'visitors' forget to remove your anal probe?
You can plug a GPS handset into the serial port and get the time off that.
It's called 'applejack' apparently.
The French have an alternative called Calvados, which is made by mixing horse urine with cider and then cracking it in a still.
They might 'feel' 3D, but those are 2D, my friend.
How about we all just imagine that someone says this once at the top of each article, then no-one needs to post it.
Prosser, bulldozers etc...