U.S. National Do-Not-Call Registry On the Way?

WinkyN writes "Yay! The U.S. House of Representatives overwhelmingly passed a measure that creates a national "do not call" list for telemarketers. Telemarketers are required to check the list every three months and can be fined up to $11,000 each time they violate the law. Now I won't have to ignore my telephone when it rings since more than 50 percent of my calls are from telemarketers." Congress is just getting around to passing a budget bill to run the government for fiscal year 2003 (started last October), and we're now in the time period when everything and the kitchen sink gets thrown into it just before it passes. Good to know that there's at least one useful piece of legislation.

Comments

Too bad

[ouslush]

I knew I shouldn't have spent $40 buying that damn Telezapper

Re:Too bad

[Jacer]

Yeah, that thing screams false advertising. It sends no frequency over the telephone to delete your call. All it is is a recording that says the phone is disconnected. Have a friend mask his phone number from caller id, and then have him call. He'll hear it.

Re:Too bad

[swordboy]

I knew I shouldn't have spent $40 buying that damn Telezapper.

Actually, you can get the same effect by simply whistling loudly into the phone when you answer it. Recently, after signing up for a credit card, I started getting all sorts of telemarketing calls. My caller ID would be filled with dozens of 'NO ID' on a daily basis. Instead of ingoring them, I started picking up and whistling loudly. In several other events, I just picked up and answered (followed by the routing delay). When they asked for me by name, I simply asked them to put me on their do not call list.

The calls subsided in less than two weeks.

The problem with this new law is that the US legislature is for sale. The politicians have squeezed every last drop out of the telemarketing industry prior to making this law. Now, they will have new ground to bargain with. Loopholes around this new law will be the next big cash cow.

Re:Too bad

[EvilBudMan]

>>The problem with this new law is that the US legislature is for sale.

I also heard that you have to pay to get on the national list. Can anyone confirm this?

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

> Loopholes around this new law will be the next big cash cow.

Umm, like calls for political contributions? You do know these are exempt from the law?

Re:Too bad

[bboombotz]

Whistling is a new one. I know of one person who put the dial tone for a disconnected phone number on his answering machine (pretty much a telezapper). So when the computers called his house, and the answering machine picked up, that tone would sound, and the computer would label him as a disconnected phone number.

I also hear if you hit the '#' button repeatedly, that also blocks the calls.

Either way its nice to see something useful from the government. Hopefully it will help some.. but I agree, there are always loopholes.

Re:Too bad

[r00t-69]

Is there a do-not-email-me list? I want one of those.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

"you can get the same effect by simply whistling loudly into the phone when you answer it"

Actually the effect is slightly different - it makes you look a right tit if it's a valid call...

Re:Too bad

[Psmylie]

Whistling? I just scream loudly and continually until the telemarketer hangs up. Doesn't decrease my volume of calls, though... but why would I want it to? It's so fun!

Re:Too bad

[pummer]

wow, that thing is REALLY a waste of money.
This company page implies that you'll still pick up the phone when it's a telemarketer, they'll just be disconnected AFTER you pick up the phone. Wow! A $40 device to hang up the phone!

Re:Too bad

[grnbrg]

I knew I shouldn't have spent $40 buying that damn Telezapper

Or you can go to http://home.attbi.com/~dakine/defeat.htm and get a .wav file to record at the beginning of your outgoing message on your answering machine, and you get the same effect -- FREE!

The .wav files (and the TeleZapper) basically play the three tones you hear when you dial a number no longer in service. When this is played at he beginning of a call, the predictive dialling software of the telemarketer (in theory) removes your number from the database.

Might not work 100% of the time, but it can't hurt...

grnbrg

Re:Too bad

[angryrobot]

This totally works.

I actually wrote a letter to get on the Direct Marketing Association do-not-call list that exists right now. After about 2 months the number of calls was like a 1/4 of what they were. After that, I picked up every call and told them to put me on their do not call list. Oddly, almost every telemarketer that I said this to would politely say "OK, you can expect calls to cease within 3 weeks" or something like that.

I get about 1 call every couple of months now from a telemarketer, and it's usually from like the local paper or something. It's a huge relief.

Direct Marketing Association

1-888-777-3406

DMA Telephone Preference Service

P.O. Box 1559

Carmel, NY 10512

Re:Too bad

[bughunter]

My caller ID would be filled with dozens of 'NO ID' on a daily basis.

Sounds familiar. I'm a Pac Bell customer in Southern CA. Two years ago a similar plague of automated calls started filling my answering machine memory with messages that were nothing but sequences of beeps, each lasting more than 3 minutes. Every day, a dozen or more times a day, these calls arrived exactly every seven minutes apart, with caller ID giving an "UNAVAILABLE" origin. It rendered my answering machine useless, and I was in the middle of an employment search!

I finally got fed up and called my local PD, who set up a trap and trace with Pac Bell. Although it successfully identified the caller, the PD wouldn't identify them for me - something about potential for retaliation. The detective promised me that he sent the caller a warning, but since they were out of state there was little I could do. The calls continued. Month after month.

Every month I set up another trap and trace, and eventually told the PD that I wanted recourse to civil court, and that I required the ID of the offensive caller in order to file suit. At this point the PD got the FBI involved, and finally, after more than a year, I got a call from a detective and found out the story:

The calls were originating from Dallas. The caller was a SBC Long Distance telemarketer using an autodialer. That's right, SBC.

My own phone company was jamming my answering machine with dozens of nuisance calls a day!

Why it just beeped, no one could explain. My theory is that it was my 1970's era Radio Shack answering machine with a continuous loop outgoing message cassette. The beep is a metal splice strip. The beep tone must have triggered something in the autodialer. Anyway, the FBI got results. The calls stopped. They briefly resumed again, but this time there was an 800 number on my caller ID. I called it and it was SBC LD customer service. They denied calling me at all, but I spoke to a supervisor and made it clear that I did not want them calling me at all and if they did, they would be subject to fine and criminal prosecution for harassment, due to the frequency and duration of their PITA calls.

I finally got peace.

To this day I am still confounded by the irony - it was SBC, my own phone company. And I can't sit thru a SBC long distance ad on television without shuddering in revulsion.

Re:Too bad

[cheezedawg]

You might notice that before the recording starts, there are those 3 tones. That is what the telezapper sends, and that is what tells the telemarketer's computer that the number is disconnected.

Re:Too bad

[The_K4]

I have SBC local service and I get something simular. Everyday at 10:xx am and 2:xx pm my answering machine has 2 calls that leave no message excpet a single beep. Not nearly as annoying as what you describe, but still pisses me off. So I have switched to using my cell phone for ALL calls. I don't answer the home number at all. I check the machine like once a week and delete all the telemarketeer messages and the beeps. It's ILLEGAL for telemarketeers (of any kind even political and charities) to call that becauase it's a ceel phone. So when i get telemarketeer calls i ask to speak to a manager......when I get them i politly inform that they have called my cell phone, which is illegal, i would like to know where I can send them the bill for this call (since they are legaly responsible for ANY phone charges that result from me answering their call). Works like a charm. :)

Re:Too bad

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

Newspaper subscriptions are one of the exceptions to most don't call lists, so even with the new legislation we can still expect to receive calls from newspapers and non-profit organizations.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I suggest you just pick a touch-tone key and hold it down rather than whistling.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the effect is slightly different - it makes you look a right tit if it's a valid call...

I have a slight preference for left tits, myself. But hey, wouldn't take much forcing to make me look at either a right or a left tit.

Re:Too bad

[GreyPoopon]

so even with the new legislation we can still expect to receive calls from newspapers and non-profit organizations.

I wonder how long it will be before some telemarketing company spins off a non-profit arm that can be used to "legally" make those unwanted calls. I hope the legislation takes this into account by targeting the company on behalf of which the call is made.

Re:Too bad

[Ho-Lee-Cow!]

Charities can ill-afford ill-will from their donor groups and it is in their best interests to leave people alone who request it. I think that the only ones left who are crass enough to do otherwise are those handicapped lightbulb sellers, the Red Cross, and the fraudulent ones(All of these are very much the same thing to me anyway).

Re:Too bad

[Erik Fish]

Oddly, almost every telemarketer that I said this to would politely say "OK, you can expect calls to cease within 3 weeks" or something like that.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't cut the legal mustard (at least in the U.S.). If my skim of the JunkBusters site picked up the right info, once you tell them to put you on their do-not-call list they can't call you again for ten years or you can quite easily file some legal papers and get $500 per infringement out of the bastards.

I never get telemarketing calls (a combination of luck and a very careful selection of who gets my phone number) or I would be keeping a list and checking it twice to try to cash in on this.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

You are confused. The telemarketers have to pay to get the list which means it will cost the taxpayers close to nothing.

Re:Too bad

[Mr.Happy3050]

You might want to hold onto that telezapper. The States have been expermenting with these "no call" lists for a couple years now. While the State "no call lists have been succesfull (save for the loopholes for non-profit orginzations and re-election campaigns) the constitutionality of these laws have NOT been tested. The telemarketers could claim that such laws are an unconstitutional abridgement of the freedom of speech (commerical speech is protected speech, just on an intermediate scrutiny test level). If Congress does pass this law, look for it to get challenged in the Federal district courts as soon as it goes into effect.

Re:Too bad

[hagardtroll]

That doesn't stop Greenpeace. I gave them a few dollars once and they called me on a regular basis to get more, even though I asked them to stop calling me.
They will never see another penny from me ever again. Along with Amnesty International, Humane Society, NPR, etc. Once you give them money they think it's a license to harass you.
A lot of those Police and Fires groups are fraudulent. Forget it. I give through the United Way so I know the groups are worthy of my money.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

heh they arnt supposed to hang up on me so I just set the phone down without hanging up. I dont get enough calls where this causes me to miss any so its great.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

...except SBC Long Distance didn't exist 2 years ago, and they were only allowed to compete in the Pacific region 2-3 months ago.

Re:Too bad

[Safety Cap]

I give through the United Way so I know the groups are worthy of my money.

If you take $0.15 of every dollar and throw it in the street, then give the other $0.85 to a worthy charity directly, you'll be contributing more than you do when you give to UW.

Re:Too bad

[patchmaster]

I put the disconnected tones at the beginning of my outgoing message. I also changed my message to "We're sorry, the number you have dialed is still in service. If you'd like to leave a message..." Within a month I went from 20 "unknown caller" calls a day to just a few a week. Fortunately, my answering machine is caller ID enabled and can play different outgoing messages for specific callers so my friends and family don't hear the disconnect tones. It probably would have created some confusion otherwise.

Re:Too bad

[Thuktun]

Yeah, that thing screams false advertising. It sends no frequency over the telephone to delete your call. All it is is a recording that says the phone is disconnected.

It doesn't do that on the version I own. That emits what sounds to the human ear as a single beep, which is apparently the three DTMF tones with very short duration.

The potential for false advertising is that this "tells" the dialer on the other end to remove the number. All it does is pretend to be a dead line, and a sane autodialer would remove such numbers from their queue.

The Telezapper worked great for us, but only for large, nationwide telemarketers. Small local shops that probably use a cheaper per-telemarketer autodialer (instead of a pooled dialer) zoom right past the tone.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I just called 1-888-777-3406, and got a recording, "this service is not available from your area, 1123 click." I'm guessing the DMA offers this service only to callers from states that have enacted their own anti-telemarketing laws.

Re:Too bad

[Thuktun]

I'm pretty sure that doesn't cut the legal mustard (at least in the U.S.). If my skim of the JunkBusters [junkbusters.com] site picked up the right info, once you tell them to put you on their do-not-call list they can't call you again for ten years or you can quite easily file some legal papers and get $500 per infringement out of the bastards.

From 64 CFR 64.1200:

Maintenance of do-not-call lists. A person or entity making telephone solicitations must maintain a record of a caller's request not to receive future telephone solicitations. A do not call request must be honored for 10 years from the time the request is made.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I once received over 150 calls in a single day, all blank messages recorded by my machine except for the last one, which was some tele-marketing dork saying "Hello? Hello?". The next day I received over 100 calls.

I also have an answering machine, which I believe confounds the telemarketers. My machine has been broken for awhile, and doesn't play the outgoing message at all. It just beeps, then starts recording. No problem for me, since everyone who knows me just leaves a message. But the telemarketers can't seem to figure it out.

I receive on average 4 telemarketing calls a day. I am really looking forward to the national do-not-call registry.

Re:Too bad

[MIRV]

Forget the United Way. I give through the federal and state government, about a 50% tithe. I dunno if the groups that get the money are worthy, though...

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

So how many lives did EFF save last year...?

(come on, someone must have a good response...)

Re:Too bad

[jd_esguerra]

I used to get messages with single tone beeps. About 1/2 second long, and for as long as a message could be on my answering machine. Eventually the call would end. A few minutes later, another "beep call." Of course, this would repeat numerous times (like 5-10).

It happened one day that I was home when "they" called. I answered the first time, and recognized the beeps, but no-one was there. Out of curiousity, I turned on my computer and set it up to receive faxes.

A few minutes later, as expected, the phone rang. My computer picked up. It was indeed a fax--some lady's blood test results meant for a doctor who had distributed the wrong fax number.

I called the medical center/office and informed them of the mistake, and the beep messages stopped.

Unintentional human error, but the fax machine didn't know that, and kept trying to send the fax every few minutes.

Anyway, I heard that cell phones are not tele-spammed. You think that if I threaten the phone company with cancelling my service and using only my cellphone, they would agree to give me caller ID or whatever telemarketing blocking services for a discounted price?

Re:Too bad

[fdiskne1]

I did this about four years ago. Now it seems they lost my information. As far as the DMA is concerned, I never opted out. I guess I'll have to get into the habit of sending in a new "Do Not Call" request every couple of years.

When I asked for written confirmation so this doesn't happen again, they said they don't provide it. So, in another 6 months if they decide to drop my name again, it's time to start over.

Re:Too bad

[Safety Cap]

More than the lives UW did. Oh wait, UW doesn't save lives: it just skims $$$ off donations and calls that "administrative overhead."

So, how much $$$ did the (former) CEO of UW make off with before they caught him?

won't change my life.

[Joe the Lesser]

"Now I won't have to ignore my telephone when it rings since more than 50 percent of my calls are from telemarketers."

I've been in the practice of avoiding my telephone regardless of the caller.

Re:won't change my life.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cold-calling me trying to sell me something : That's a paddlin'

Spaming my inbox : That's a paddlin'

Selling my personal information after I do business with you : Oh you better believe that's a paddlin'

Re:won't change my life.

[Anonymous Coward]

I NEVER answer my phone. I wouldn't even have the damn thing if Qwest spirit of service, my ass, my average call with them whenever I have to bitch at them is well over an hour and believe me I have to bitch at them a lot. didn't require a phone service on the line and DSL I pay those bastards $50 a month for a phone I never use. just to have a DSL connection is the only real option I have for a static IP right now.

Re:won't change my life.

[AssFace]

I don't answer my phone either. The only reason I've had a home phone at all in the past few years was to let people in via the security system, or for my fiancee to call home (she is from Bermuda and long distance on a cell phone to there is not pretty).

If a number doesn't show up as a known # on my cell phone, then I ignore it. Hell, I tend to leave my phone off most of the time anyways - I *HATE* the phone.
I don't know if it is to the level of a phobia or a compulsion, but I will do anything to get out of using the phone.

Everyone that knows me knows that email is the way that they can reach me all throughout the day.

Occasionally I pick up the phone in case it is my dad (he is on the road right now and therefore doesn't have a constant phone number). But that is usually rewarded by a telemarketer, whom I tell that I am on a cell phone, never call me again, and take me off of their list and then immediately hang up (if I can get all that done in under a minute - which should be easy - then I don't have to pay for the incoming minute).

The only time that backfired on me was when it really was my credit card company calling about something. They ended up calling back and leaving a relatively unpleasant message on my voice mail.

Lately I've been getting a *lot* of recruiters calling me and leaving voice mail messages. I never call them back... perhaps that is a sign that the economy is starting to pick up again?

Re:won't change my life.

[telstar]

I've been in the practice of avoiding my telephone regardless of the caller.

• That explains
• a lot.

Re:won't change my life.

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

As does this.

Sorry, too obvious, nothing personal :)

Re:won't change my life.

[Anonymous Coward]

You lack originality, go home.

Re:won't change my life.

[Stephen VanDahm]

All of my friends talk to me through e-mail, so I know that if the phone rings, it's definitely someone that I don't want to talk to. I just let the answering machine get it -- if it turns out to be someone worth talking to, I'll call them back.

Steve

Finally America's voice has been heard

[jmacleod9975]

Yea, Now all they need to do is get around to a do not e-mail list, and fixing the patent office, and maybe even get their lips off of Mickey's ass, and allow copyrights to expire.

Re:Finally America's voice has been heard

[yourmom16]

This is the states job(see the 10th amendment) unless the signals are being sent across state boundaries(where the commerce clause allows it)

Re:Finally America's voice has been heard

[RobotRunAmok]

You think the average American -- hell, the above-average American -- gives a damn about copyright tenure? For Joe Sixpack, it is an issue right up there with water rights on Mars. You can't even include this in the same conversation as coming down on the telemarketers who call at dinner time.

Seriously, how many people do you think there are like you or me who stand to make a mint when we can turn pro with our Steamboat Willie fan-fic, huh?

Re:Finally America's voice has been heard

[metamathica]

Interstate commerce is not within the domain of the states and includes lots of things that are naively intrastate.

See Wickard v Filburn for a good summary.

Re:Finally America's voice has been heard

[yourmom16]

I know interstate commerce is not the states job thats why I said unless the signals are being sent across state boundaries

Re:Finally America's voice has been heard

[metamathica]

You should really take a look at the case I mentioned.

A farmer was growing corn on his own private land, picking it and feeding it to his pigs on the same farm, all in one state, without transfering anything anywhere. Because of the perceived importance of the New Deal economic stimulus programs, it was ruled that he was participating in interstate commerce by virtue of the existence of a national market. Whether his specific transaction crossed state lines didn't matter: it was economic activity that, when aggregated, affects the whole nation.

There are other cases along these lines, but this one spells the doctrine that continues to dominate. You may not like it, but the Constitution is much more complex than it's most literal meaning.

NYS Do Not Call Registry

[Shant3030]

I signed up for the NY State "Do Not Call" registry, and it has been a success. I rarely receive telemarketing calls and when I do I love saying something like...

"Excuse me, I am on the Do Not Call list and if you continue calling this number, I will be forced to contact the proper authorities who will prosecute your company to the fullest extent of the law".

Might not make a whole lot of sense, but its fun to hear the scared telemarketers apologize and hang up.

Re:NYS Do Not Call Registry

[DarkKnightRadick]

This right on the heels of the Washington State ruling.

Very odd indeed.

Re:NYS Do Not Call Registry

[jolomo]

I've been using Georgia's system for 3 years and receive, maybe, one a month. When I get the occasional call and tell them not to call again, I never get a second call from them. Nice system

Re:NYS Do Not Call Registry

[Royster]

I've been on the NYS DNC Registry since day 1.

So, will this Federal DNC Registry supercede the NYS Registry so that I'll have to reregister?

Re:NYS Do Not Call Registry

[Shant3030]

Hmmmm... good question. Regardless, i'm signing up for the US one as well.

Re:NYS Do Not Call Registry

[plague3106]

"Excuse me, I am on the Do Not Call list and if you continue calling this number, I will be forced to contact the proper authorities who will prosecute your company to the fullest extent of the law".

I tell them they broke the law and will infact inform the authorities. When the DNC appeared here, it was widely publicised...no reason for anyone not to know about it.

Re:NYS Do Not Call Registry

[DavidTC]

Yeah, what's this lame idea that they're allowed to violate the law until you tell them to stop. They aren't allowed to call cell phones, and they aren't allowed to call people on DNC lists. Don't tell them to stop, tell them they've broken the law and you will be informing the police, even if you aren't going to do so.

Re:NYS Do Not Call Registry

[On Lawn]

Actually, we only get about 1 marketing call a month and also tell them to never call back (with legal merit). I like the Do Not Call registry, and I'll sign up when it comes to California, but in the mean time I've had success with the following.

Caller ID blocking, which blocks everyone that doesn't show a valid Caller ID number.

Unlisted number

Looking at the Caller ID to see if the number makes sence. I don't have to recognize the number, but telemarketers usually come across as unlisted somehow (still).

Those that do get through are so infrequent (once a month) that get a little nervous like we are missing someone real when it happens. We pick it up, tell them never to call back.

---------------
OnRoad: We get you there and back again.

Re:NYS Do Not Call Registry

[DiveX]

No, it won't supercede per se, though it will reinforce it. I am on the Florida state list and I will sign up for this as soon as it is available. In the future when I make private claims against these companies, it shows they had multiple way to know that I was supposed to have been removed.

Re:NYS Do Not Call Registry

[plague3106]

Um, thats what i said i did....and i said i in fact DID report them.

SPAM

[N3WBI3]

Now all we need is a do not send email...

Re:SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

Les francais te pissent au cul.

Re:SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

Monsieur, vous êtes un Monsieur !
Chapeau bas ! :-D

Re:SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yes, a long list of valid email addresses is the first thing I want to send to a spammer.

Re:SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

Ce qui sont vous allant faire quand le prankermania court sauvage sur vous, frère?!

Re:SPAM

[mark_lybarger]

yeah, and "don't talk to me" t-shirts that people can wear as they stroll around town.

absolutely none if this has anything to do with the federal government. why the hell they make assinine laws to make the general population happy, i'll never know. laws are needed to protect peoples constitutional rights. exactly which rights are violated via spam/telemarketing or any other unsolicited communication?

Re:SPAM

[N3WBI3]

Honestly I would not let the french that close to my rear end...

Re:SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

So is it OK for me to come over to your place and borrow your car? I want to drive around town and shout things from the window. Your not letting me take your car interfers with my free speech.

SPAM is theft. I pay for my ISP and, thereby, an email account. I pay for my home phone and the service to keep it connected. I do not wish marketers to use the services that *i pay for and own* thank you very much.

I don't see the difference between someone hijacking my phone and me taking your car.

Re:SPAM

[N3WBI3]

Good point... BUt if there was legal weight behind it and a monetary loss to $dipshits then I could deal..

Re:SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

tu sais que tu jactes comme un pede, sale con ?
soit tu articules, soit tu fermes ta gueule.

Re:SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

Est-ce que je peux joindre le Leigon étranger français? J'ai apporté mon propre drapeau blanc.

Re:SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

Parler dans des marques françaises vous ressemblez à d'un homosexuel.

Re:SPAM

[N3WBI3]

how would me pointing out the french are a bunch of spinelss wimps have anything to do with my opinion of GWB?

Re:SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

si encore tu l'avais pondu en franssais mais t'as rien que la gueule pour chlinguer, imbecile !

Re:SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

actually, I think you don't know what an opinion is and you truely desserve what is gonna happen to your shitty convicts descendants english speaking only horde.

Re:SPAM

[N3WBI3]

boy a joke of a sig file sure got your barret in a knot...

Re:SPAM

[N3WBI3]

Yes I do know, at soe point we willbe called on to liberate Frace again (maybe from the Swiss this time)

Who will it be?

[silicon_synapse]

My guess is that someone has a change of heart at the last minute that just happens to coincide with a large increase in their bank ballance. This will never go into effect.

Re:Who will it be?

[Anonymous Coward]

More likely, each group will need to buy an exemption, rather than one party killing the whole plan.

Most the state plans I've seen have a few groups that are exempt. Indiana for instance allows insurance, real estate, newspapers, and non-profits.

Re:Who will it be?

[wmspringer]

You never know....several states have managed to pass them, maybe the feds will too.

Of course, I don't know about the other dates, but I can tell you that when this was passed in Colorado, the democrats had a senate majority...and the republicans killed it in the house the first time through..

Is this a widespread problem?

[Malc]

"50 percent of my calls are from telemarketers"

It's tough when you have no friends!

Is this a problem specific to the US (telemarketers, not loneliness)? I get less than one telemarketing call a month here in Canada. Maybe I'm just lucky. Thank goodness that's less than 50% of my calls too! >:)

Re:Is this a widespread problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you buy their product, you would pay them in Canadian currency. That is deterring the telemarketers.

Re:Is this a widespread problem?

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

Here in Chicago, I probably get at least 5 - 8 telemarketing calls on any particular day. I don't bother picking up the phone anymore unless a valid number appears on the caller id. Ah, to return to the blissful days of answering the phone without trepidation. I really hope this thing passes.

I suppose some pro-spammer will jump in here and say, "just ignore it!". Have you ever had your dinner interrupted by a telemarketing call? Even if you don't answer it, it's still an interruption.

Re:Is this a widespread problem?

[Malc]

I hear you. It's a pain in the arse. I get a lot of international phone calls, and they normally show up on the caller ID as unavailable, although sometimes they have a strange looking area code. I can't distinguish them from telemarketers, or the credit company wanted to know where my latest payment is. It makes a joke of caller ID (yet another telco money making scheme?) and really does leave one feeling unsettled when the phone rings.

Re:Is this a widespread problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's pretty common here in the UK, but just for once we're ahead of the US and we've had what is called the Telephone Preference Service for several years, along with a postal equivalent.

Re:Is this a widespread problem?

[plague3106]

It makes a joke of caller ID (yet another telco money making scheme?) and really does leave one feeling unsettled when the phone rings.

I don't think it does; i like to know that its a family member calling or my friend.

Re:Is this a widespread problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

>It's tough when you have no friends!
I have a lot of friends... I get an average of 8-10 calls from friends between 5 and 10 PM. I get an average of 15 calls from telemarketers during this time period.

The worst is University of Maryland Alumni Association. If any of you belong to this misguided organization, please tell them they are making the alumni association look bad. I have told them that I don't wish to be called anymore on the order of 10 times, in fact, I also told never went to UM. They keep on calling.

Re:Is this a widespread problem?

[Malc]

Most of my family members live overseas. Oh, and a lot of the cellphones (such as my wife's) around here also seem to show up with an unavailable number. So don't tell me you don't think it's a problem just because it doesn't affect you!

Re:Is this a widespread problem?

[plague3106]

I think you misunderstood me.

The fact that caller id hasn't helped me tell the difference between a 'real' call or telemarketing call doesn't mean that caller id is worthless. I was trying to point out its other use, for me at least; and that is ducking my family on a friday night :-)

Re:Is this a widespread problem?

[Malc]

LOL! Sorry. ;)

50 percent, huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now I won't have to ignore my telephone when it rings since more than 50 percent of my calls are from telemarketers.

WEEKLY RAW DATA:

2 CALLS- Telemarketers
1 CALL- His Mom
1 CALL- Wrong Number

Re:50 percent, huh?

[Rary]

Is this a regional thing or something? I'm stunned that someone would claim 50% of their calls are from telemarketers. On average, I would estimate that I get 2 or 3 telemarketing calls per year . Is it normal for people to receive that many telemarketing calls?

Re:50 percent, huh?

[ednopantz]

Buy a house. Every mortgage refinancier, siding contractor, driveway sealer, etc. in the county will call twice a night.

We get about 75% marketing calls now. As a result, we never answer the phone without checking caller ID.

Re:50 percent, huh?

[ArsonSmith]

my home phone rings several times a day. I use my cell phone exclusivly and have never given out my home phone number. I only have a home phone for my Tivo and for quick outgoing calls if my cell is dead. Every call that comes through is a telemarketer and it's not like my number is a hot ticket as I have completely stop answering it.

100% of my 3-5 phone calls a day are telemarketers.

regional or not, that is unreasonable.

Re:50 percent, huh?

[Beatbyte]

I receive on average of 4-5 a day (and thats when I'm only home from 5pm - 11pm)...

If they're important, they'll call my cell phone :P

Re:50 percent, huh?

[cgenman]

ATT was the worst offender for a long time. Apparently they do respect do-not-call requests, but they also call with the same offer on average once per week. It makes you wonder why you would go with a company who burns money calling you every week, but can't adequately staff a help line.

Re:50 percent, huh?

[Zagadka]

I get one or two calls from telemarketers virtually every weekday. They tend to be between 10am and 4pm though, so I'm usually not here. Just about every day my phones record a couple more "private", "unknown", or "blocked" calls (in the caller ID list) during that time period, and when I am home they always turn out to be telemarketers.

Re:50 percent, huh?

[liquidsin]

I don't think his mom shouting down the stairs "Come on up from the basement now and brush your teeth before beddy time!" qualifies as a phone call.

Re:50 percent, huh?

[Mr. Slippery]

On average, I would estimate that I get 2 or 3 telemarketing calls per year. Is it normal for people to receive that many telemarketing calls?

I don't know much about "normal" :-), but I got two tele-spam calls last night, and one this morning.

Those are just the ones that happened to get picked up - usually I let the machine get it and only pick up if it's a "real" call. (More and more I get calls targeted at the machine, though...a long pause followed by a recording about how "I'm sorry I missed you but I wanted to let you know about the great deal we're offering...")

Many probably do stem from owning a house - I get a lot of remodelers and mortgage refinancing offers.

Re:50 percent, huh?

[egomaniac]

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Literally 80% of my calls are from telemarketers. I wish I were exaggerating, but I'm not -- we get at least three or four a day, ranging from around 7:30AM to 11:00PM.

Fuckers.

Re:50 percent, huh?

[plague3106]

I used to get 1-2 every day.

Re:50 percent, huh?

[raygundan]

50% would have been a reduction for me. I typically got somewhere between 5 and 10 telemarketing calls a day, and receive a genuine call via my landline once a day.

So we're looking at more like 80-90% of my calls being telemarketing. Heck, I usually had 2 or 3 telemarketing messages on my machine when I got home.

Then Indiana's Do Not Call list went into effect. I got two more calls, both of which I promptly reported as violations, and have received none since.

Re:50 percent, huh?

[Rary]

Wow. I'm stunned by these responses. Everyone who's responded gets multitudes of telemarketing calls every day. I'm a homeowner with a listed phone number, but still almost never receive a single one.

This is what I meant about the regional thing. I live in Canada. Is it all over the US that telemarketers are like this? Are there other Canadians (or any other non-Americans) who also get deluged with spam-calls?

Re:50 percent, huh?

[GooberToo]

I would guess that 70-80% of my calls are from telemarketers. It's at the point where I rarely bother to answer. I simply shiver anymore.

Re:50 percent, huh?

[TheDormouse]

Why the hell don't you have the ringer silent on the phone if you and Tivo only use it to occasionally call out? If there should be no incoming calls, just let it silently ring forever when telemarketers call.

Re:50 percent, huh?

[Sylver Dragon]

I used to have the same problem with a local newspaper company. They would call once per month or so and say that they intended to deliver a free paper for a week. After a couple of calls I told them to put me on their Do-Not-Call list.
The next time they called, I got the name of the person who called, logged the time, and told them to put me on their Do-Not-Call list. I also informed them that this was the second time I had made the request.
Well, sure enough they called a third time, once again I logged the time, and name of the caller. Then asked to speak to a manager. I informed the manager that I had requested to be put on the Do Not Call list 3 times before, and that, if I was called again, I would have my lawyer ask them for me in a harrasment suit.
They have yet to call back again, which is kinda too bad. I have my logs, and would love to get some money out of them. If your local laws are anything like mine, you can take a company to small claims court (ok, so I wouldn't have a lawyer), and go after them if they don't respect the Do-Not-Call request.
This same sort of thing has worked for me twice, and it has the added bonus of scaring the hell out of the manager you are talking to (and I do mean talking, yelling is a really dumb way to accomplish things).

Re:50 percent, huh?

[Ozymandias_KoK]

Nah, 2 Wrong Numbers. His mom can just open the basement door and yell down.

thats a fast refreshing of their data base...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Telemarketers are required to check the list every three months"

that so fast we all can feel relieved of receiving phone-spam (tm)

Confusion on Budget for This

[syntap]

I heard a conflicting report on the radio today about this (surprising!) They said this would be paid for by the telemarketers themselves, then said it would take $16 million to operate in the first year and no additional money was added to the budget for it. So either it's an "unfunded madate" for the FTC, or they intend to collect money from the telemarketing community very quickly.

Re:Confusion on Budget for This

[TopShelf]

I think the latter is true - the telemarketing companies are compelled to purchase the list. So the only unfunded part is the initial creation - once it goes live, the $$$ from the telemarketers starts coming in.

And to the telemarketers who cry, "this is going to kill our business," one can only reply "Exactly!".

Re:Confusion on Budget for This

[dnoyeb]

If telemarketers are forced to 'purchase' this list, I think that will be quickly unconstitutional. It favors businesses with money, and disfavors those trying to startup. That is BAD.

Re:Confusion on Budget for This

[Anonymous Coward]

The solution for startup businesses is simple. Don't call people that haven't asked you to call them.

Contrary to the belief of many businesses, the puplic is not a herd of sheep to be herded around and sheared, somtimes skinned at the whim of every dirt bag business in the country.

Re:Confusion on Budget for This

[slow_flight]

How is that any different than making a store buy a liquor permit? Some can afford it more easily than others - how is that unconstitutional?

Re:Confusion on Budget for This

[2short]

"If telemarketers are forced to 'purchase' this list, I think that will be quickly unconstitutional"

Haven't read the constitution, have you? It's actually pretty short and sweet.

"It favors businesses with money, and disfavors those trying to startup."

As do any number of laws and regulations. Requiring expensive safety equiptment for example. None of them are unconstitutional, because the constitution doesn't say anything about laws having to create a perfectly even playing field.

"That is BAD."
Trying to start up a company based on interupting my life and taking up my time without compensating me is bad. Discouraging such activity is good, and I don't particularly care if the discouragement handed out to these vampires is entirely evenhanded or not.

Re:Confusion on Budget for This

[Nfnitloop]

Exactly. And the last thing we need is more telemarketing companies, so why care if more can't afford to start up.

Has it been stated anywhere how much it would cost the telemarketing companies to purchase the list?

"Take me off your list"

[FortKnox]

If you just interrupt the telemarketer with "Take me off your list", it'll take a week of calls... MAYBE two, and it'll ALL STOP.

I haven't gotten a telemarketing call in years.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[Anonymous Coward]

"Would you like to fuck me up the ass?" works pretty well too.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[LetterJ]

I've responded to EVERY telemarketer for the past 2 years with "add me to your do not call list". I've added myself to the MN statewide do not call list. I STILL get 4-5 telemarketing calls a week. They've just changed their tactics a bit to get through the loopholes in the MN law. Now, if they don't actually intend to complete the sale on the phone, they can get away with it. So, instead of being asked to sign up with a mortgage or buy siding on the phone, they just want me to set up an appointment with a friendly sales representative to discuss the matter in person.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[avi33]

Count yourself lucky. Fact is, I never used to get them either.

If, however, you make a decent salary, open a new credit card account or two, buy and/or refinance your home, and cycle 10-30% in bohemian bourgeoisie charges (computers, vacations, fancy espresso machines) through your cards annually, you'd soon discover that you're considered ripe fruit.

You'll get 10 calls a day, profiled according to when you're most likely to pick up the phone (i.e. home from work, reading your kids a story, or otherwise enjoying peace and quiet). Of course I can use the exercise but running through the house to check the caller ID isn't quite what I had in mind.

While I generally don't need mommy and daddy government to tuck me in bed at night, the fact is, under the current system, there is no theoretical limit to the number of calls I could get. That is, I tell one company not to call me, but there could be 300 more out there buying or otherwise scavenging my number. A national DNC list establishes a single choke point, something that your suggestion does not.

And before anyone starts in on me, I have followed advice from junkbusters and written 20+ letters to everyone from my bank to the credit agencies to the credit card companies instructing them not to share my address or phone number, and I still get 15 calls per week. Even my 2-year-old got junk mail from Disney and MSN (thanks to the bastards at zoobooks selling her name and address).

Obviously the industry is incapable of regulating itself.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[sehryan]

They are only required to keep you on their DNC list for 1 year, at which point your number becomes fair game again. The only way to prevent this is to call them before it expires and "renew" your DNC request.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[swb]

We started doing that when we moved into our house four years ago. We just politely said "I am not interested in your product. Please remove our name and number from your list." Over time the calls have dropped off to nearly zero in the evening or on weekends. I can't think of the last time we got a sales call in the evening or on the weekend when we were home.

Strangely, we do get 1-2 hangup calls per day and maybe 2-3 times per month there's a pre-recorded sales pitch message on the answering machine (it's amazing how often someone installing Dish Network is in MY NEIGHBORHOOD INSTALLING FREE ALL-DIGITAL DISH NETWORK SYSTEMS.).

I'd be totally in favor of a blanket ban on recorded telemarketing, it's really obnoxious.

During political season we get called by the parties & candidates about one per each, but apparently all political speech is protected, so there's no list to get on or off.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[Anonymous Coward]

What we need is a DCL, a Do Call List. No sales 'droid can call you unless you are on the Do Call List. If you don't renew each year you get dropped off the list.

It would simplify things for the telemarketers too. The list would be much shorter than a DNC list.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[radish]

I am/have all those things, I get about one call a month - if that. I've never asked to be put on any DNC lists. Junk mail? yes, spam? yes, calls? no. Oh well, maybe it's just not as much of a problem over here.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[babbage]

If only. I do this every time I get a telemarketing call, and it's only partially effective. The standard line I give it something like "where did you get my number? please have this number removed both from your list and from the list of whoever gave my number to you." The first one they have to comply with, the second is kind of a gamble but if they can do it then great.

If the poor shmoe making the call gives me a hard time about taking my number off their list, I immediately switch to "may I please speak to your manager" and that usually gets them to either cooperate or, if they actually put the manager on the line, that person cooperates. Every now and then they've hung up on me for asking questions like this (they get paid by the number of calls made, so wasting time with an uppity customer that wants off the list is doubleplus ungood), but the company always seems to call back a day or two later and the second caller always seems to be more reasonable than the first one.

When asking to be taken off the list, they invariably say that getting off the list "may take four to six weeks", which seems like total bullshit to me -- as others have noted, they legally have 30 days and I'm sure that is the constraint they go by, not any technical or procedural reason they can't get you off the list sooner. But whatever, I can deal with that -- like I say, I consistently do this with telemarketers, and it does consistently help.

But it hasn't eliminated the problem. Not by a long shot. I dropped down from multiple calls per day to less than one a week (and almost none during the evening, which is nice) but they still keep coming through.

It's like email spam. I think at this point "best practices" suggest that you should filter incoming mail with something like SpamAssassin, and you should report obvious UCE spam to Spamcop.net, and doing these does make the problem less annoying. But it doesn't, and never will, eliminate it. Legislation will help, but it won't eliminate it either -- people can just go offshore, or find loopholes, or whatever. But it'll help.

In the end though, the only way to really stop it is to disrupt the economics enough to make telemarketing & spam untenable. If you & your neighbors can all waste their time on the phone then they won't be able to make as many calls per hour, and if they can't make as many calls per hour then they have to work harder to make a profit, and if we can make them have to work hard enough then it won't be worthwhile to engage in telemarketing. If you & your neighbors can all waste the spammers time by filtering out the bulk (forcing them to test their spam against all the major filters to make sure things work, driving up their costs in the process) and if you can make sure that most of it is never seen and if you can get their ISP to give them a hard time, then it won't be worthwhile to engage in spamming.

Filters & do not call lists & legislation won't by themselves end the telemarketing & spam problems, but cumulatively they can work to bring it under control, make it unprofitable, and hopefully convince these people to find some other way to make a living. Like selling popup ads... :)

Re:"Take me off your list"

[Broodje]

zoobooks fine print
...snip...

Personal Information
Zoobooks does not collect personal information (i.e. your name, email address, contact and credit card information) except when knowingly provided by you. We do not make your email address available to other organizations, unless you specifically request it. You may receive periodic mailings from us with information on new products and services or upcoming events. If you do not wish to receive such mailings or email correspondence from us, please let us know by contacting us at the address or phone number below, or by email to animals@zoobooks.com.
Postal Address
From time to time we may make our postal mailing address list available to other reputable organizations whose products and services we think you might find interesting. You can have your name put on our do-not-share list by contacting us at the address, phone, or email address below. Please provide us with your exact name and address. We will be sure your name is removed from the list. ...snip...
This looks like every other "respectable" online bookstore/merchant fine print I've seen: "We will not share your personal info with anyone unless we feel like it and you forgot to opted-out with our list." Am I reading this wrong? I think fine-print loopholes like this will at least have to change their wording. Good :)

Re:"Take me off your list"

[John Bayko]

So, instead of being asked to sign up with a mortgage or buy siding on the phone, they just want me to set up an appointment with a friendly sales representative to discuss the matter in person.

So set up an appointment. And don't show up. Or be elsewhere if it's at your home.

It's their money - if they want to waste it on you, let them.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[Thuktun]

I, too, live in Minnesota and have similar results with MN's new Do Not Call list.

We had purchased the Telezapper, which got rid of most of our nationwide telemarketing calls, but not most of the in-state ones for whatever reason. Since 1/1/2003, we have been getting increasing numbers of telemarketing calls, and it seems to us that some telemarketers must be using the list to boost their call volumes. So long as they use the available loopholes, especially the one where they technically don't intend to make a sale over the phone, they seem to be able to legally add those numbers to their phone queues.

Pushed advertising just doesn't work, especially with a medium used for personal and even urgent communication.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[Anonymous Coward]

Even my 2-year-old got junk mail from Disney and MSN (thanks to the bastards at zoobooks [zoobooks.com] selling her name and address).

That's nothing... we get junk mail at our house for my grandfather... the thing is, he 1) never lived at our house, and 2) has been dead for about 15 years now. Those are some ooooold lists being passed around...

Re:"Take me off your list"

[Thuktun]

If you just interrupt the telemarketer with "Take me off your list", it'll take a week of calls... MAYBE two, and it'll ALL STOP.

I haven't gotten a telemarketing call in years.

Note that, if you want to take the telemarketers to court for violating your requests, you need to ask for the right thing.

47 CFR 64.1200 requires telemarketers to honor "do not call" requests, but says nothing about requests to "remove [you] from [their] list".

IANAL, but if you issue a "do not call" request, and they violate it more than once, you have private right-of-action in court for at least $500 per violation. This is not available if you continue to demand that they remove you from their phone list.

We've had a couple of single-time violations on telemarketers we've asked Do Not Call, but so far none of them have managed to do it twice.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you do then when the big ex-con on the other end, Bruno, says "yes" to that?

Re:"Take me off your list"

[Anonymous Coward]

Then I'd say "In your dreams, Mr. Flopsy!" and hang up, of course.

Re:"Take me off your list"

[alexpage]

I generally don't need mommy and daddy government to tuck me in bed at night

Man, did I misread the "tuck" in that sentence...

We can only hope...

[TopShelf]

Here in Indiana, the Do Not Call List has been a major success. I'm tempted to say it's the single most effective piece of legislation I've seen come along in quite a while. The problem with this being done at the federal level is the amount of lobbying that will take place for special exemptions (political campaigns, charities, etc.). Hopefully these will be kept to an absolute minimum, but in Washington, I wouldn't count on it!

Re:We can only hope...

[silicon_synapse]

There are already exemptions for political parties, charities, and businesses you have a preexisting relationship with. I believe businesses can contact you if you've done business with them within so many months/years or if you're currently doing business with them.

Re:We can only hope...

[bay43270]

Here in Missouri, I haven't had as much luck. Our program has exemptions for politicians, telephone companies and charities. I get at least 4 calls a day from charities alone. I haven't given anyone money based on a phone call since before I got my current phone number. I don't know for sure, but I think they got my phone number from the no call list (I didn't have near as many problems before I added myself to the list).

The federal law has the same exceptions.

Re:We can only hope...

[MacBrave]

That is true about the exemptions. My wife entered a contest to win some free windows or something from a company at a home show a couple of years ago. We still get a couple calls a year from this company seeing if want to buy windows, even after we put our name on the Indiana list.

Re:We can only hope...

[SN74S181]

Perhaps we need to compile a 'do not donate list' for charities who persist in using phone calls to solicit.

Re:We can only hope...

[Anonymous Coward]

You expect a group who can't even see fit to pay their fair share and who manage to get out from under taxes to not abuse such.

A tax cheat is wrong, even if they can legally do it. If rape were legalized, would that make it right?

Re:We can only hope...

[pmz]

The problem with this being done at the federal level is the amount of lobbying that will take place for special exemptions (political campaigns, charities, etc.).

The sad thing is that the charities are the sleaziest of them all!

"Do you think it is important to (support|stop) X?"
"Sure."
"Would you like to donate Y?"
"No."
(they set you up to make you feel like a hypocrite; i.e., they are scum)

Re:We can only hope...

[jslag]

There are already exemptions for political parties, charities, and businesses you have a preexisting relationship with. I believe businesses can contact you if you've done business with them within so many months/years or if you're currently doing business with them.


This isn't a big problem for my household - 10% at most of the telemarketing calls we get would fall into one of those categories.

Re:We can only hope...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have had good results getting business that I already have a preexisting relationship with to stop calling me. I politely ask the caller how I can get put on their do not call list. When they tell me I ask them to do it.

Then tell them that I realize they have the right to call me, but that my business is theirs to lose and they should make any future contact by mail. I don't recall a case where that hasn't worked for me except long distance carriers, ATT, MCI and Sprint in particular.

It has also been somewhat sucessful with charities. Better than 50%.

It has been virtually useless with political campaigns, but I never did get many calls from them.

Seems like it also helps to get their name before you start talking to them and address them by name. It also helps to be polite but firm. They have crappy low paid jobs where they are getting paid to annoy people. If you're polite and treat them like human beings, you stand out.

Re:We can only hope...

[Anonymous Coward]

"The problem with this being done at the federal level is the amount of lobbying that will take place for special exemptions (political campaigns, charities, etc.). Hopefully these will be kept to an absolute minimum..."

That's what mail boxes are for. I get to read that crap at my convienience

Re:We can only hope...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had pretty good luck with the DNC in Missouri, but the only real problem is waiting three months for the TMs to take me off their lists.

Re:We can only hope...

[reimero]

Here in Indiana, the Do Not Call List has been a major success. I'm tempted to say it's the single most effective piece of legislation I've seen come along in quite a while.

Are you kidding? It's the only effective piece of legislation to come out of Indianapolis in a long time!

Re:We can only hope...

[sickboy_macosX]

Now if only we could get a "Mother in Law" no call list where Mother IN Law's couldnt call and meddle in every single aspect of your life. Hopefuly this would classify as a NON EXEMPTION =)

In Canada?

[NorthernMinx]

Anyone know if something like this is in place in Canada? I would be ready to get out of my igloo and get on the list anytime!

Re:In Canada?

[fudgefactor7]

I don't think so, mainly because there is at least one US Telemarketing firm that is completely relocating its operations to Canada.

Re:In Canada?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a telemarketer block in eefect on my home phone #. I got this service for free after bitching to them about telemarketer messages a few minutes long a piece blocking out my Bell voice mail service while violating the rules of annoucing their phone# with first 10 seconds.

"one good law"?

[Sylvestre]

It violates the ninth, tenth, and first amendments. How is that a good law?

Re:"one good law"?

[teamhasnoi]

It violates the ninth, tenth, and first amendments. How is that a good law?

Please post your phone number and we will all tell you.

Re:"one good law"?

[Dunark]

It violates the ninth, tenth, and first amendments. How is that a good law?

And which of these amendments gives unwanted intruders the right to invade my privacy to deliver their sales pitches? This law is does nothing more than create the equivalent of a "No Trespassing" sign for my telephone. I see no constitutional problems with this.

Re:"one good law"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Like many amateur constitutional lawyers, you have a gross misunderstanding of the First Amendment.

You can't be prevented from speaking in a PUBLIC place, or in a venue YOU OWN, using equipment YOU OWN. You have no, zero, nada, zip-shit right to speak on private property, using equipment and facilities owned by others, except at the pleasure of those owning said property.

I own my phone. I pay the monthly service fee. Therefore, I should have the right to decide who uses it.

If you disagree, please post your address and I'll come over and scrawl advertising messages on the wall of your bedroom using human feces. After all, it's "free speech", right? Making that against the law would "violate the First Amendment", right?

Re:"one good law"?

[Malc]

I'm not an American. I don't know what those amendments say. Can you explain futher please?

I have a feeling that you're going to make a comment about freedom of speech (most amendment quoters do when it comes to marketing). Well, I respond that it is my right to not have to listen, which doesn't in any way restrict their rights. I don't want to hear their crap. A right to free speech isn't a right to interrupt my life or the privacy of my home. If they stood outside my front door yelling their sales spiel, I would call the police and have them charged with disturbing the peace.

Re:"one good law"?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have a point. The question is that when this law is passed, signed into law, then declared unconstitutional in the inevitable challenge, what will happen to the state mandated "do not call" lists? If, as you say, this law violates amendments 1, 9, and 10, then what a great way to invalidate all the state level lists.

Think back to when the US Supreme Court declared the death penalty unconstitutional: Every person on death row, federal or state, had their sentance commuted to life in prison. And when the death penalty was reinstated, those prisoners did not go back to death row.

I hope "do not call" lists don't die a similar death.

Re:"one good law"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, in the case of Amendment #1, "commercial speech" is held to a different standard (with lesser protections) than "regular" speech.

Re:"one good law"?

[Anonymous Coward]

How so? The First Amendment has always been restricted in terms of what kind of speech it protects... for example, you can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre because it endangers the security of everyone else around you. There are also differing levels of protection for "commercial" speech versus "political" speech, which allow corporations to be sued for false advertising. So the First Amendment is by no means a blanket license to say anything or call (harass) anybody.

Furthermore, the Constitution gives Congress the power to make laws regulating all forms of interstate trade, and that (I believe) is the auspices under which they can regulate this sort of thing. They simply make it a requirement that any telemarketing center that places calls to any other state to sell it's products must purchase and abide by the national Do-Not-Call list.

Is this really such a significant departure from the existing speech regulations? Do you think this sets a new precedent for infringing upon our right to free speech? It doesn't really seem that way to me, but I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Re:"one good law"?

[Stonehand]

The somewhat relevant part of the first is that the right to free speech will not be infringed. It's actually not too relevant, because it's a well-established doctrine that (a) commercial speech may be regulated, and (b) the right to speak does not include a right to force others to listen.

The ninth basically states, if memory serves, that the Constitution's enumeration of certain specific rights does not mean that that's ALL the rights under it.

The tenth is perhaps the strongest (in a legal sense) way for opponents of the list to fight it -- powers not granted elsewhere in the Constitution, either explicitly or implicitly, are reserved to the states.

Re:"one good law"?

[liquidsin]

First Amendment: How many times do you people have to be told? The right of free speech does not guarantee the right to an audience.

Ninth Amendment: So since telemarketers aren't constitutionally guaranteed the right to annoy me doesn't mean we can't disallow it? I'm confused here...

Tenth Amendment: I'm not sure what your argument here is...

Re:"one good law"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Phone: (425) 882-8080

Re:"one good law"?

[Mr. Slippery]

The tenth is perhaps the strongest (in a legal sense) way for opponents of the list to fight it -- powers not granted elsewhere in the Constitution, either explicitly or implicitly, are reserved to the states.

So long as the telemarketing company itself, or the company it's marketing for, is engaged in interstate commerce, the feds have a legitimate Constitutional power to pretty well smack 'em around.

If it's "Bob's Handyman Service" that only does local business, than the interstate commerce clause doesn't apply; unfortunately the courts seem to have problems with literacy, and like to pretend that all commerce counts as interstate.

Re:"one good law"?

[DiveX]

You know nothing of what it violates.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The Supreme Court as LONG held that commercial speech is NOT free speech. Your right to advertise does not supersede my right to be left alone and not be bothered by such advertisements.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Your right of free speech stops at my mailbox. The constitution does not give you the right to electronically barge your way (uninvited) into my home, demand the use of my equipment and ink and paper supplies to present your message, shifting all your selling costs to me without my permission or request. The Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 (a bill by Hollings as well) has been enforced for over a decade. It has long held that junk faxes and prerecorded calls, among other practices are illegal. Every SINGLE case concerning the first amendments have been upheld by the federal courts. You are completely ignoring the fact that political, religious, and other such speech are exempted. As a result, you may fax anyone your ideas on political change or confirmation of christ and not run afoul of the law as long as there is no commercial purpose (you aren't selling Jesus dolls)Are you going to suggest that there is such a gross amount of negligence that all these federal judges in multiple federal districts are getting it wrong? Destination Ventures, Ltd. v. FCC, 46 F.3d 54, (9th Cir. 1995), and Moser v. FCC, 46 F.3d 970 (9th Cir. 1995), cert. denied, 515 U.S. 1161. See also Kenro, Inc. v. Fax Daily, Inc., 962 F. Supp. 1162 (S.D. Indiana 1997).

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Powers are still retained by the states. In fact some states have more strict laws. The TCPA was enabled to protect the consumer since states cannot easily do something that occurs outside it borders. Spam and telemarketing calls are going off shore, however the reason the TCPA and this bill still have teeth is that you can go after those on whose behalf the call is made. so unless the call and merchandise/serivce are BOTH offshore, you have a way to collect damages.

Re:"one good law"?

[BgJonson79]

I thought the First Amendmant only guarantees your right to speak, not be heard?

Re:"one good law"?

[StormReaver]

IANAL

The first amendment is not violated on at least three counts:

1) Telemarketers are infringing upon my property rights by using my phone (which I own) in a manner not authorized by myself. This is by far the weakest of the three arguments, but it's still true. By being on the list, I am merely telling telemarketers that they may not use my property.

2) Their message is one purely of commerce, without any other value. Speech which is purely of commercial value is not protected speech.

3) Even if their speeches had socially redeeming value, there are many other protected avenues which can be utilized (such as snail mail, park gatherings, etc) to spread the same message. This is entirely irrelevant in this case, though, because purely commercial speech is not protected speech.

The 9th amemdment is not relevant in light of the first amendment not being violated.

The tenth amendment is not violated because this is the federal government regulating commerce. This is explicitly granted the federal government by the Constitution in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3.

I agree with the others who have commented on this being one of the best laws (if not the only good law) passed by Congress in recent years.

Re:"one good law"?

[wilsonodk]

It cannot violate the First Amendment. Corporations are not People. They (Corporations) are NOT granted the Rights afforded to the People of the US. There is currently a case about this very subject involving Nike. (/.)

As for the Ninth Amendment, once again, Corporations are not People, therefore they are not granted this Right.

And the Tenth Amendment, The Supreme Court on several cases has upheld Federal Laws that were not in the Jusisdiction of Congress to regulate. Ever heard of Income Tax? In the Judicial System as it stands the Tenth Amendment hasn't been upheld. We fought the Civil War over this, remember? State's Right to make laws about slavery vs. Federal Law against. Fed's won - therefore the Federal Law will superseed and will not be considered unconstitutional.

Fax Law

[fjaffe]

Yippee!!!

Hope this works better than the law which mandates the $500 fine per unsolicted fax. I get about 5 unsolicited faxes per day, more than I ever got from telemarketer calls.....

Re:Fax Law

[Erris]

Hope this works better than the law which mandates the $500 fine per unsolicted fax. I get about 5 unsolicited faxes per day, more than I ever got from telemarketer calls.....

Do you use $500 bills for toilet paper? Just wondering.

Re:Fax Law

[Anonymous Coward]

The fax law has loopholes that make it so you can only sue the most stupid and incompetent of fax spammers. (I seem to recall fax.com or somplace like that did get hit with a billion dollar fine!)

The basic deal is that after spending the time to get on a fax-spammer's "don't fax" list, the faxxer can't fax you again from the same number from which they faxxed you before. Small surprise that professional fax spammers have (a) lots of phone numbers from which to fax you, and (b) never use a given phone number to fax another phone number more than once.

So while you the law does affect mom-and-pop shops who are unaware of the law, it does nothing to the enormous professional fax-spam houses that waste most of our toner and paper.

Re:Fax Law

[terraformer]

Do you file a complaint with your state or the FTC about it? These laws are only as effective as the citizens are good about filing complaints.

Re:Fax Law

[TCPALaw]

The Fax Law (47 U.S.C. 227) works fine for me. I have successfully collected about $200,000 from junk faxers and telemarketers over the past 5 years... all in small claims court.

A bunch of cases are collected at the FCC here .

Re:Fax Law

[operagost]

Sounds like I need to get a fax machine.

But I love telemarketers

[Adam Rightmann]

Whenever they call me, I ask if they're willing to end their sinful ways and return to the True Church.

Of course, since telemarketers are a tool of Satan, they instantly hang up.

Re:But I love telemarketers

[qoncept]

Maybe it would be better to instead ask them to add you to their do not call list. By law, they have 6 months to do it, but they've got to do it. (Aside: It's not a national do not call list, but that one company is required to remove you. Ask the name of the company representing whatever product it is -- there aren't that many.)

I think people would benefit from an explanation of why telemarketers do what they do.

Why do they take so long to talk??
A telemarketer doesn't do any dialing. They sit at a dummy terminal and are presented with a contact's information as the contact picks up the phone. ie, they not only don't dial your number, they don't even hear the rings -- just you saying "LLO? HELLO???"

Why do they keep calling me? I already said no!
Each, I think it was called program or whatever (I only worked their for a few weeks, please forgive me) they call it lasts until the contacts are "exhausted." Exhausted doesn't mean everyone has been called, it means the sale rate drops below a certain percentage. When you call and say no, your name gets thrown at the end of the list. Right along side the people who had answering machines, the people who weren't home, and the people who said maybe later. You're going to be called until enough people stop saying "sure, I'll take one."

Why are they still calling me?? I said take me off your list!
It'll be done, just relax. When you do this, ask the name of their company and document it. I recommend keeping a little pad of paper with these things along with the time and date you request it. 6 months later, go ahead and talk to your lawyer.

I know THAT guy won't call me again!
That guy doesn't have a choice -- you'll either come up on his console randomly or you won't (most likely the latter; it'll be one of the other 10419 people he's sitting with). I'll encourage you to remember these are 14 year old kids trying to save up for a car when they turn 16, not the greedy businessmen that fabricated the annoyances. Sometimes that's not enough to curb the desire to be a dickhead, so also remember this: these 14 year olds don't care what you say to them. They're getting paid minimum wage to be there and make very little commision. They've been desensitised by 10000 callers before, and I guarentee you:

You aren't that clever.

Now, on with people's wit. Show me how great you got them, geniouses.

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds about right, sometimes it results in this situation:

Me: Hello . . . Hello?
TM: Dude, I'm still waiting for your name to come up.

Sometimes, you have to hang on a little longer to be removed from the list.
Now... how are we supposed to get rid of the:
Recorded voice: "Sorry for the recording, but ..."
guess there's still a use for sit.wav

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Mr. Slippery]

I think people would benefit from an explanation of why telemarketers do what they do.

Because they are remorseless sociopaths who should be strung up by their thumbs and severely beaten?

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Drakonian]

Show me how great you got them, geniouses.

No entry found for geniouses.

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Anonymous Coward]

Geniuses - spelling correctly when it is so easy (spell check?) helps your credibility. Let's also feel bad for the crack dealers just trying to save up for that car. ETHICS! I worked for Gallop Polls. At least I could see redeeming qualities in polling. Still only lasted two months. Opinions have value, trying to sell someone crap over the phone.....none. That said, thanks for posting a "largely unpopular" view. Interesting.

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, here goes.....

Try learning how to spell. It's "geniuses" you under educated dolt. Next time pay attention in class.

BTW, you aren't that smart. ;-P

Re:But I love telemarketers

[chimpo13]

Sometimes that's not enough to curb the desire to be a dickhead, so also remember this: these 14 year olds don't care what you say to them. They're getting paid minimum wage to be there and make very little commision. They've been desensitised by 10000 callers before, and I guarentee you:

You aren't that clever.

But I am that clever. I made a telemarketer cry.

I think the House passing a bill doesn't mean it's going to pass. Who pays the House & Senate more money? You or DMA? I doubt this will be one of the bones the gub'mint tosses us once in a while. Soon DMA will be saying that terrorists block telemarketers. Bush will announce that and say it's solid proof why we should bomb Iraq. All your base are belong to us. Somebody set us up the bomb.

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Anonymous Coward]

Re:But I love telemarketers (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13,
@12:09PM (#5295818)
Geniuses - spelling

Congratulations, you're the firs-- wait, nevermind. Genious.

under educated Take note that when insulting someone based on spelling or a typo, it is wise to use hyphens where appropriate.

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Anonymous Coward]

>>I'll encourage you to remember these are 14 year old kids trying to save up for a car when they turn 16, not the greedy businessmen that fabricated the annoyances.

Fuck them. They picked that job, I will hurl insults at them for disturbing me. I don't give a flying fuck what they are saving up for ... get a different job you little rat bastard.

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Kashif Shaikh]

Why do they keep calling me? I already said no!

Each, I think it was called program or whatever (I only worked their for a few weeks, please forgive me) they call it lasts until the contacts are "exhausted." Exhausted doesn't mean everyone has been called, it means the sale rate drops below a certain percentage. When you call and say no, your name gets thrown at the end of the list. Right along side the people who had answering machines, the people who weren't home, and the people who said maybe later. You're going to be called until enough people stop saying "sure, I'll take one."


As a "used-to-be" telemarketer, I can answer this question more better:
If a) the customer pisses me off or b) if their daughter acts rude/yells, "well, HE's not interested" -- I mark the call as "CUSTOMER NOT AT HOME".
In the first case, I want to piss the customer off for pissing me off, and in the second case the daughter a) pissed me off and b) technically they are not the recepeint of my call so I just add customer back to the "Call again in 2 days list"

Hate me if you want, must this is a telemarker's opinion.

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Feztaa]

You're going to be called until enough people stop saying "sure, I'll take one."

People do that?!?

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Anonymous Coward]

Hate me if you want . . .

Well, at least you didn't ask us to do anything difficult. Look, I had shitty jobs as a teenager, but there's no way I'd ever stoop to being a telemarketer.

When you do a job where the description is "annoy people and be an asshole", then how dare you get pissy with people who have every right to scream and shout at you?

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly the kind of thing I'd expect from the low life who call my phone on a daily basis.

I normally just tell them to 'fuck off'.
It's straight to the point and leaves neither parties wondering whether their is a glimmer of hope of a business relationship.

These people are a lower form of life, and should be treated as such.

Re:But I love telemarketers

[fdiskne1]

I make it a point to make the telemarketer's job a living hell. I like doing my part to make the job so lousy that no one wants to do it. Telemarketing isn't a legitimate business, if you ask me. They should all be driven out of business. If you don't like it, don't call me.

I also get the name of the company and address and jot it down and ask to be placed on their do not call list. Just try calling me again.

Re:But I love telemarketers

[Kashif Shaikh]

Ha ha you suckers. I hate telemarketers as much as you do, but when you're looking for a job, telemarketing is one of the easier summer jobs to get.

What I described is 'being in the shoes of a telemarketer'...i.e. if anyone of u were in this crappy job you would act even more rude than me.

And yes, I believe telemarketing should be banned, especially the ones which take advantage of people in their 60s.

PA's works

[jpsst34]

I signed up in Pennsylvania on the first day it was available last August. In PA, they sell the list of blocked numbers to telemarketers on a quarterly basis. I was told that I would see a dramatic drop in telmarketing calls After Novermber 1, 2002. This is in fact what happened. It's been nearly 4 months, and I haven't received a single telemarketing call.

Re:PA's works

[lucifuge31337]

And I heard that the first few companies who were caught violating the PA DNC list are being prosecuted, possibly as we speak. The people wjho complained are entitled to a chunk of the fine ($400 or $500 for the $4000 or $5000 fine, I believe).

Re:PA's works

[jpsst34]

Yes, our new governor is heading this up, I beleive I saw on the local news the other day. The fine is $1000 for each offense, $3000 if the offended is a senior citizen, as seniors are often targeted by telemarketers. I think the offended gets 10% of the fine, the state gets the rest.

I should have posted the link to PA's site in my original post... http://www.nocallsplease.com/

...And if you are called: http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/ppd/bcp/telemarketi ng/DNC_disclaimer.cfm

...And the FAQ:
Q: When a telemarketer is fined, where does the money go?

A: Act 24 requires that 10% of any civil penalties collected are remitted back to the consumer who was illegally called, up to $100 per consumer. The remainder of civil penalties are placed into the Commonwealth's General Fund.
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/ppd/bcp/telemarketi ng/DoNotCall_List_FAQ.cfm

Re:PA's works

[jpsst34]

Talk about timing! After having posted this yesterday, last night I received a telemarketing call. It was fun. The conversation went like this:

Me: "Hello?"

TM: [middle-eastern voice]"May I speak to Allan?"

Me: "There's no Allan here."

TM: "Is this xxx-xxx-xxxx?"

Me: "Yes, but there is no Allan here."

TM: "I'm sorry, I have wrong name, but your household has been selected to receive free wireless phone."

Me: "From what company are you calling?"

TM: "Liberty While liffsshsh."

Me: "Liberty What?"

TM: "Liberty Wileliff W-I-R-E-L-E-S-S."

Me: "OK. Liberty Wireless. Can you hold on for a second while I grab a pen and paper? ...[pause]... OK, you're calling from Liberty Wireless?" I write down the company name.

TM: "Yes, your household has been selected to receive a free wirele..."

Me: "May I have your company's address?"

[CLICK]

Me: "Hello? Hello? Hellooo?"


I reported the company to the state attoney general. Shocking abuse of authority, I know, but I'm a firm believer of a ruling class, especially since I rule.

If Congress approves funds for this year, ...

[burgburgburg]

If Congress approves funds for this year, the do-not-call list could begin operation by summer.

The perfect way to kill it. Don't fund it. "We've got a war to fight and taxes to cut. Plus if we fund this, telemarketers will be inconvenienced. And they have lobbyists, and you don't."

a small change

[xao gypsie]

and can be fined up to $11,000 each time they violate the law.

now, this law would be really impressive if we, the 'victims', get a cut of that 11 grand...

xao

Re:a small change

[0x20]

Actually I'd be just as happy if it went to support enforcement of the law - legal fees, court fees, international hitmen for those offshore spammers, things like that.

Re:a small change

[Penguinoflight]

Oh, but this is a witty way to fix the $3 trillion dollar deficit everyone is talking about! Support your country! report telemarketers.

Finally

[Thorin_]

All I can say is its about time something like this is passed. I'm sick of getting tons of phone calls for crap i don't want. Now if they could only stop the mass of credit card applications my wife and i get every day...

Re:Finally

[Vel0ur1a]

all you need to do is tear up the applications and send them back to the company in their own postage-paid envelopes. even if it doesn't DO anything, it gives a little 'fsck you' back to the credit card company -- personal victories. :)

Re:Finally

[Diabolical]

Im with you all the way man.. i feel your pain, my wife keeps filling them in and returning them also...

Should be a law against that.....

Re:Finally

[redog]

You can!!! Just screw up your credit line Like me, you'll never have to worry about credit applications showing up in you mail ever again.

On the other hand I get too much, Bad Credit? Low Credit? No Credit at all? With this ez application our professional credit councelors can help you establish good credit in almost no time at all( in which I'd expect the flood of CC apps again).

So I guess I am stuck screwed.

Re:Finally

[Surreal_Streaker]

From transunion.com
http://www.transunion.com/content/page.jsp?id=/per sonalsolutions/general/data/OptOut.xml
Here are instructions on how to stop credit card applications.

Opt-Out Contact Information
TransUnion wants to help companies give American consumers the choices they want. This choice includes the right to say, "No, thank you" to their offers.
If you want your name and address removed from mailing lists obtained from the main consumer credit reporting agencies -- TransUnion, Experian, Equifax, and Innovis -- call 888-5OPTOUT (888-567-8688), or write to the following address:

TransUnion LLC's Name Removal Option
P.O. Box 97328
Jackson, MS 39288-7328

Include the following information with your request:

* First, middle, and last names (including Jr., Sr., III)
* Current address
* Previous address (if you've moved in the last six months)
* Social Security number
* Date of birth
* Signature

Re:Finally

[PhxBlue]

I can deal with the credit card applications and whatnot that come in my mailbox. At least the other guy pays for that, and I don't have to give up more than a few seconds, at my leisure, to tear the bloody things into confetti.

Telemarketing calls are a nuisance because I'm not in control of when they call me; and spam is a nuisance because I have to pay for it. But normal junk mail, I can deal with.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

* First, middle, and last names (including Jr., Sr., III)
* Current address
* Previous address (if you've moved in the last six months)
* Social Security number
* Date of birth
* Signature

Dude, you forgot to ask for my bank account number. Should I send that too? *stare*

Someone please mod parent down. :)

Re:Finally

[silicon_synapse]

I do that but also throw in any other junk mail I happened to get that day. It never has to leave the mailbox.

Re:Finally

[wednesdaywar]

It also increases the volume of mail being carried, solves nothing ,and likely leads to an increase for postage.

Re:Finally

[tetranz]

One thing I miss having moved from New Zealand to the USA is being able to put a 'No Junk Mail' sign on my mailbox. Since New Zealand is big on freedom and deregulation, 'NZ Post' (the modern corporatised version of the old Post Office) does not have a monopoly on mailboxes like the USPS does. Lots of organisations (phone company, power company, junk mailers etc) use their own delivery people. A 'No Junk Mail' sign is usually respected.

Only a couple problems with it...

[zimbu]

Charities, surveys and calls on behalf of politicians would be exempt.

The FTC has limited authority to police telemarketing calls from certain industries, including airlines, banks and telephone companies.

I wonder if "limited authority" means this bill won't apply to calls from those industries.

Re:Only a couple problems with it...

[Arjuna Theban]

Unless the FCC works with the FTC on this, we will keep getting calls from the latter three you listed.

I don't know about everyone else, but 99.99% of the telemarketing calls I get are from those six types of companies/organizations. I hope the FCC does cooperate so at least my telemarketing call traffic would drop a bit.

-bm

Re:Only a couple problems with it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee...and guess where 90% of the telemarketing calls I get come from.

A. Banks - credit cards
B. Telephone companies - long distance

And since they are "non-profit" (only 10% or less actually gets donated), I'll still get calls from the police and firefighter scam donation people. (This is the other 10%)

So, in other words, this changes alot of nothing.

Used to get 5-10 calls a night....

[LordYUK]

... from telemarketers, usually from AT&T about long distance. Then I switched from the local crap service to MCI's neighborhood plan, and I get at most 1 a week, and then its usually from some charity organization like the local police or something, so I dont know if thats really considered telemarketing...

At any rate, thats how I fixed my problem... and free long distance rocks when playing vid games with people in other states!! :-)

Re:Used to get 5-10 calls a night....

[Surreal_Streaker]

.. from telemarketers, usually from AT&T about long distance. Then I switched from the local crap service to MCI's neighborhood plan, and I get at most 1 a week, and then its usually from some charity organization like the local police or something, so I dont know if thats really considered telemarketing...

No, that's called extortion!

Re:Used to get 5-10 calls a night....

[PhxBlue]

I'm glad you actually got a good deal out of it. I'm still fighting them, six months later, because they insist on billing me (over $100) for using the "free" long distance. Apparently the local service has to be connected before you actually benefit from the free long-distance service; but they neglected to mention that when I switched to them. And afterward, they said it would be three weeks, then (three weeks later) six weeks, before they could have the local service installed.

Fuck 'em, I say. Though I do find amusing the "suspension notice" that tells me they've suspended my long distance service. Stupid schmucks don't seem to realized I switched back to Sprint three months ago and have had continuous long-distance service since!

Re:Used to get 5-10 calls a night....

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as I'm concerned, unsolicited calls are like spam; no matter who they are from they are unwelcome. Charities who call me will never, ever get a contribution from me again.

Re:Used to get 5-10 calls a night....

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, it actually took them about 3 months to get me installed. its not their fault though. since they lease the line from the mega phone company (verizon in my area) and I didnt have a verizon account (I was with a local dinky phone company, BIG MISTAKE) the local company wouldnt release my line to MCI, so I had to switch to Verizon and THEN switch to MCI. After verizon got me hooked up, it took less than 2 weeks for MCI to kick in, and its worked fine ever since.

Re:Used to get 5-10 calls a night....

[Tackhead]

> > I get at most 1 a week, and then its usually from charity organization like the local police or something, so I dont know if thats really considered telemarketing...
>
> No, that's called extortion!

Actually, it's closer to fraud - though the "extortion" angle is part of how the fraud works.

Most of the time, such calls are NOT from your local police. They're from a telemarketing operation that's registered itself as a "charity", that happens to have a name that falsely implies it's being run by/for your local cops.

For instance, if "$YOURTOWN Police Benevolent Fund" is the real Police charity, the scammers will call the scam organization the "Police Benevolent Fund of $YOURTOWN", or "$YOURTOWN Police Benevolence Fund".)

What really happens is that 90% of the "donations" collected go to the operators of the scam, and 10% go to the cops/firemen, just the bare minimum to make it legal.

Police and Fire Departments are commonly used in this scam for the reason implied by the last poster -- when asked for money by people claiming to be authority figures, people are much less likely to say "no".

The sad part of the scam is that for some cash-strapped municipalities, it's possible that the cops and fire departments turn a blind eye to it; better to get 10% to keep some fraudster in business than to get nothing at all.

What about scams?

[jniver]

So would this apply to all those people who are out there scamming people by saying "I'm a relative, and I need money, Guido will be by later to pick it up...oh by the way, where do you live again?"

This in addition to the current laws they are breaking?

Re:What about scams?

[Anonymous Coward]

Has anybody actually ever fallen for one of these? I mean, that's even dumber than the "Bill Gates wants to give you money for testing his e-mail tracking system" e-mail hoax... :)

Re:What about scams?

[Exedore]

That's funny... "Guido" doesn't sound like a Nigerian name to me.

Re:What about scams?

[erpbridge]

You mean like Mr. Tambo, right?

I swear, I must've received at least 4 in the last week that all claimed to be Mr. Tambo. Usually, there's a slight variation, but this time, they were all exactly the same.

How about a mail-out opt-out

[Anonymous Coward]

I keep being mailed out offers for christmas puddings, expensive cakes from New York, Readers' Digest's "free radio", and Visa Gold Card application forms (I am a teenager who does not work, it is weird, who gave them my name?). I am tired of it. How about an opt out for the letterbox as well as the phone?

Re:How about a mail-out opt-out

[1g$man]

Your school.

Re:How about a mail-out opt-out

[Anonymous Coward]

I left school at 14.

Its GREAT

[Anonymous Coward]

We have this in the UK. Telephone Preference Service
or something. Cold sales calling now a thing of the past. Some evidence of firms using a loophole permitting "calls for gathering market statistics". Hmm:

SELECT Name, Address
FROM NAIVE_PUNTER
WHERE YesAnswer = 1;

So, my lovely US couterparts - get signed up now but watch that loophole!

ENJOY!

and behind the curtain?

[Anonymous Coward]

This bill sponsored by SPAM YOU INC.

It violates no law

[Anonymous Coward]

These amendments do not protect the harassment of someone intruding into your home or personal space.

3 months

[phorm]

Does this mean that, after signing up for the list, one must still wait 3 months or so before one can expect to be off all the telemarker's lists?

How much of a problem is this in the US anyways, I'm in Canada, and I don't often get phone-spam. It might be a bit more annoying for those that are home during the workday, but even on my odd-days-off I can't say I get these type of calls a whole lot.

Re:3 months

[normiep]

Yes, that's generally how it works with the state lists. In new york for example, I just got a new phone number which I registered with the do not call list earlier today. According to the new york website the next list gets distributed on April 1st and doesn't actually become binding until May 1st. When I signed my old phone number up for the same service, it took a similar amount of time.

I should also note that once the list became active the number of calls I was receiving dropped down from 3 or 4 a day to less than 2 a week.

Re:3 months

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to get about 3 calls a day. After working at getting off lists, I'm down to about 1 every two days. When I'm over at a friend's house babysitting during the day, they probably average 2 or 3 calls a day. Phone service, credit cards, and mortgages are the main pitches.

It depends a bit on the lists you get on. Homeowners are likelier targets, as they know you have money, need certain products/services, and the fact that you're a home owner (and all your contact info) is a matter of public record.

If you enter most sweepstakes, you get on the "sucker" lists, which can mean huge amounts of junk mail and phone calls, as all marketers love suckers.

Re:3 months

[jellomizer]

3 months is about good movement for the US Government. The higher up you are in the government the less efficent and slower things move. I personally dont see whey people want the fedral governemt to do everything because once it gets to that level it becomes to slow to be effective.

Cellphones

[hafree]

I hope this will work for cellphones too... My wireless number isn't listed anywhere and I don't often give it out, but about 50% of my cellphone calls that I pay per-minute rates on are telemarketers too. Sure, explain to me how to use MCI long distance on my AT&T wireless service. And with no long distance charges on my wireless calls, how exactly is 5 cents per minute going to save me money? Yeah that's what I thought.

Re:Cellphones

[ces]

It is against Federal law to make telemarketing calls to a celluar phone.

Next time you get one of these calls get the company name, let them know your number is a celluar number and request they do not call you again.

I'm pretty careless about where I've given out my celluar number but have only gotten 1 telemarketing call.

For things like long distance I believe telemarketers use randomly generated phone numbers rather than an actual list.

Be careful what you wish for

[SuperHighImpact]

What whould happen to slashdot if all those problems were fixed? We would have nothing to preach about and the forum would slowly fade away into oblivion. Then I may actually feel obliged to get some work done. That's no fun.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry - here at Slashdot we will ALWAYS find something more to preach/bitch about!

i don't receive telemarketer calls anymore!

[quick9vb]

My telephone line went dead about 6 months, but my DSL still works. After a few days of peace and quiet I decided I had no reason to call BellSouth to get it fixed.

Re:i don't receive telemarketer calls anymore!

[JPelorat]

Same here, mine's been out for over a year now. Never thought I'd actually be happy about Bellsouth's incompetence...

Not expected to pass the Senate

[dpbsmith]

NPR said this morning that it's NOT expected to pass the Senate.

Re:Not expected to pass the Senate

[LordNimon]

Did you read the article? It doesn't need to pass the Senate.

Personally...

[Chocolate Teapot]

...I don't really have a problem with telemarketers. Unlike spammers, each telemarketer can only hit one 'victim' at a time, they are not anonymous (they can't withhold their number) and will more often than not leave you alone if you say "I'm sorry, but you are wasting your time. Please remove me from your list." These are just people who are trying to scrape a living. This list is probably a good thing, but I really think that people are overreacting.

Re:Personally...

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

Unlike spammers, each telemarketer can only hit one 'victim' at a time,

I guess you've never heard of the predictive dialer? Using this device, a single telemarketer can annoy many people simultanously, because it places many calls at once. The first person to pick up will get to speak to the telemarketer, and the rest will be wondering why their line is dead. A complete waste of their time.

they are not anonymous (they can't withhold their number)

I have yet to receive a telemarketing call that shows a valid number on the caller id. If that's not what you mean by withholding their number, I'd love to know how to get their contact information.

and will more often than not leave you alone if you say "I'm sorry, but you are wasting your time. Please remove me from your list."

I played that game for a time, the calls stopped for awhile but after a few months they started picking up again. Nowadays, even if I pick up the phone to tell them, I just get a dead line because of their damn predictive dialers. This is the last straw. They telemarketers have proven time and again that they cannot be trusted to self regulate. It's high time for a national do-not call list.

Re:Personally...

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you can let them waste all of your time that you like. But I don't want them wasting MY time.

Some of us have better things to do.

Re:Personally...

[Chocolate Teapot]

Well, maybe I'm doing something right, although I have no idea what it is. I can count the number of telemarketing calls I have received in the past year on the fingers of one hand. As it happened I didn't take them up on their offer of free weed treatment for my lawn (although it probably needs it - I found a Japanese soldier in their last week who never knew the war was over), but was more than happy to play Sprint Canada against Bell to bring my long distance/international calls down to 7c/min. I can't wait for Bell to call again - 5c/min would be sweet. I wonder why some people seem to get ten or more telemarketing calls each week. Are they just unlucky or have they been careless? Like I said, I think the list is a good idea. I just happen to believe that the hostility towards the actual telemarketer is often misplaced - a polite "no thank you" is usually more productive than threats or smart-assed responses. When some low-paid peon stops you in the supermarket and invites you to try a sample of whatever product they are promoting, do you respond with abuse? I take the cheese and run.

P.S. Since when has refraining from joining the lynch mob been considered a troll?

Re:Personally...

[DahGhostfacedFiddlah]

Trolls are meant to provoke responses by writing something that is pretty ridiculous and/or offensive. Your post was (yes, unintentionally) offensive to those who get upwards of 10 calls a night. It shouldn't be chalked up as "careless" - it simply shouldn't happen. And it is a serious disruption when your phone becomes essentially useless because of the exceptionally low signal to noise ratio.

Re:Personally...

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

I think this is one of those things that simply must be experienced in order to understand the pure frustration involved. In my city at least, the telemarketing calls are remorseless and unrelenting. Telling them to, "take me off your list" has become a joke.

Count yourself lucky to get so few calls. Maybe you're in a rural environment? I used to live in a small town, and pratically never got telemarketing calls. Living in a major urban center is another story. I have an unlisted number and have taken care (obviously not enough) to not give out my phone number to those who may abuse it. Still, I get dozens of calls per week.

Re:Personally...

[Chocolate Teapot]

Maybe you're in a rural environment?

Yes I am. You have probably not even heard of it.

Re:Personally...

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

So young, so angry. I happen to like Canada quite a bit. I haven't been to your city, but did take a vacation in Toronto some time back and thought it was rather nice.

In fact, there's only one thing from Canada that I would rather do without.

Re:Personally...

[Chocolate Teapot]

Now that is what I call a troll. Or was it flamebait? Or just plain sick? ;) Actually I'm an English ex-pat who only likes to think of himself as young. Enough of this thread already.

Re:Personally...

[Anonymous Coward]

You have no money, at least not on paper.

I used to get maybe one or two calls a month, always from charities (the local police benevolent blah blah selling enhanced police protection in the form of bumper stickers).

Then I got a mortgage, a credit card, and recently bought a new vehicle.

Now the phone rings off the hook, and my mailbox is jammed with refinancing offers, credit card apps, and every charity in town with its hand out.

Personally I like doing the "Me onry speaka da chineeze" bit. But I guess a do-not-call list would be cool.

They assume because I've spent money, that I have money left for them. They're dead wrong.

Re:Personally...

[Zordak]

In fact, there's only one thing [celinedion.com] from Canada that I would rather do without.

Aren't Bryan Adams and Shania Twain Canadian too? Perhaps the U.S. should enact an import ban on "musicians" from Canada.

Re:Personally...

[Rakarra]

Well, maybe I'm doing something right, although I have no idea what it is

It's not what you've done, you've simply been lucky. Many others who have done exactly what you've said and they still get calls.

I wonder why some people seem to get ten or more telemarketing calls each week. Are they just unlucky or have they been careless?

Maybe my credit card company was giving my information out to "partners." And then those partners give it to their partners, etcetc. I get 3-4 telemarketer calls per night, and I don't answer the phone anymore (just let the answering machine get it).

When some low-paid peon stops you in the supermarket and invites you to try a sample of whatever product they are promoting, do you respond with abuse?

In the supermarket, no. At my private residence on the lines I pay for? Different story.

What's the point

[kopper187]

I'm on the state list in NY. So are my parents. We both get a new kind of call. A lovely British-accented woman's voice, or jerky man's voice computer message is left, daily. "This is NOT a sales call. We have an urget matter to speak to you about..." blah blah, "Please call us at 1-800-...." 'SO THAT WE CAN MAKE A FREAKING SALES PITCH' is the part they don't add.

A federal level law has not even been passed yet and already the tele-crapers have a way around it. This method was started, I believe, by collection agencies but has been picked up by the marketeers. (I am yelling at one of them as I type this!)

Re:What's the point

[djward]

Also, there's a built-in way around it:

>> Charities, surveys and calls on behalf of politicians would be exempt.

"Hello, we'd like you to take our quick survey... in return, we'll let you switch to our long-distance service for only..."

Re:What's the point

[tgd]

That should still be illegal... I've never seen one of those which was for a sales pitch, they're usually creditors. Creditors aren't allowed to leave any message to the effect that they're calling about an unpaid debt on an answering machine because its considered harassment, so they leave messages like that.

Have you actually called it back to see if its a sales pitch?

Re:What's the point

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually if it is not a sales call, then in theory you would charge the person harassment...

Re:What's the point

[EvilStein]

I have, and yes, it was a sales pitch. On Sunday afternoons, our Network Operations emergency phone (a cell phone, too) would get a similar call - "Please call 1-800-xxx-xxxx on Monday to discuss an urgent matter..."

It was some place selling carpet cleaning services.

Re:What's the point

[Rakarra]

I think I've won about 4 "free trips to Vegas" in the past six months. This is starting to become popular in direct marketing. If they can't call you to try to sell you something, then they leave a message on your answering machine asking to call them back because they're offering you a prize or some such BS. Then when you call, the sales pitch begins.. because there are no rules on what they can do when you call them.

As much as I like the idea ...

[funkman]

I don't think its the job or responsibility of the federal government to dictate whom businesses may or may not call.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[Surreal_Streaker]

I don't think its the job or responsibility of the federal government to dictate whom businesses may or may not call.

No, but it is the responsibility of the government to keep unwanted people from invading your home, be they robbers, kidnappers or telemarketers.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[Xzzy]

And I don't think I should have to put up with businesses interrupting my private life just because they want to make an extra buck.

Since I doubt these companies are going to change their behavior on their own, and they sure as heck won't stop because I ask them to.. that kind of leaves uncle sam to take care of the problem, doesn't it?

That's what the government is there for, to make my life easier (or safer).

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[u38cg]

Nobody's deciding who may call you but you. It's just like Slashdot; if you don't like censorship, set your filter to -1 and read away. Have fun; I'll stick to +3, thanks.

Specificaly, the Government/state/whatever is *not* making the decision; it's just creating a list of people that companies may not call. The people themselves decide if they want on this list.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[ratamacue]

Nor should you, as a taxpayer, be penalized because others don't know how to avoid spam, or because the legal system is so corrupted it takes millions of dollars to win a legitimate lawsuit. At the root, it's about personal responsibility. Those who favor this law don't want to be responsible for their own choices -- they intend to put the responsibility on you and me. It's hardly surprising considering that US citizens are taught (fed propaganda) from an early age that promotes government as the solution to any conceivable "problem".

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[Anonymous Coward]

The government isn't deciding or dictating. You are. You are the one who has to put your name on the do-not-call list.

If you would like them to call you, your all set, dont sign up. It takes zero action on your part.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[ad0gg]

They aren't dictating who businesses can or can't call. Its an opt out list. And it is every responsibility of government what can or can't do. With your logic, our fax machines would be flooded with junk faxes and I would burn up all my cell minutes by telemarketers. What the governments needs to set up next is a privacy opt out list that states a business can't sell information of the person if they are on the list. If the government had this list, in theory make the do not call lists useless since businesses couldn't sell your phone number.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[ratamacue]

That's what the government is there for, to make my life easier (or safer).

Safer, yes. Easier? Not on my time. Why don't you consider taking responsibility for your own life, instead of brushing it off on me?

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[ratamacue]

You've got a difficult task ahead of you, proving that telemarketers should be classified as invaders who operate on the principle of coercion, just as thieves and kidnappers do.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[rpillala]

They're not making the decision, they're just enforcing yours. So what's wrong with that? If it were an opt-in list it would be different.

Ravi

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[radish]

You won't be minding if I sign you up for a few special offers then? You could save $$$ on your next batch of herbal viagra.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[slow_flight]

Little late for that, isn't it?

Using that logic (and I'm not saying I totally disagree with it, mind you) it is also not the governments place to tell me what I can and cannot ingest into my body. It is not the governments job to take almost 50% of my earnings and distribute them as they see fit. It is not the governments job to do about 80% of what they do. But, given that this is the way it is, I support getting some benefit from it. And I personally will benefit from this.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[ratamacue]

Sure I would mind. But I realize that the solution is not to penalize the entire tax-paying populace in an attempt to solve a "problem" that only exists for a few.

Look, I've been "on the internet" as long as any of you, and somehow I manage to avoid spam. Want to know how I do it? By not giving out my email address. I also manage to ward off the few telemarketers that call my house. How do I do it? I simply tell them to hold on, leave the phone hanging, and go about my business. Cost: 10 seconds of my own time. Hardly worth penalizing th entire tax-paying public for.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Better than telemarketers taking up MY time. Whats the matter, sparky, visions of watching your income disappear flashing through your head? Good. Starve.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[revery]

Realistically, they aren't. They are making it an offense to violate your request to not be called by businesses.

There's a big difference in my opinion.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[el_gregorio]

the government DOES have the power and authority to regulate how telemarketers do business; it falls under the interstate commerce clause of the constitution.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[Surreal_Streaker]

You've got a difficult task ahead of you, proving that telemarketers should be classified as invaders who operate on the principle of coercion, just as thieves and kidnappers do.

Well, considering that the telephone is one of the foundations that modern society is built upon, and vital for emergency communication, I don't think that it is too much of a stretch to see a ringing telephone as something that needs to be answered for fear of imminent harm. (To others or to ones self.)

Your point is taken though, perhaps trespassing or peeping would be an easier parallel for those in the audience with limited imagination.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

Agreed 100%.

btw I tried setting my threshold to +3 at one time, but ended up changing it back because I never got to see my own posts ;)

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[ratamacue]

Trespassing isn't even close. The "crime" amounts to nothing but a simple waste of somebody's time (and a miniscule one, at that, unless you're receiving hundreds of spams a week). Think about it. Spammers aren't the only (or first) people wasting your time. I could easily name 100 examples of time-wasting more significant than spam, some of which I have no control over. I'd like to see anyone try to prove that it represents anything more than a simple, insignificant waste of time.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[Surreal_Streaker]

So I shouldn't have control over my own time?

What if my time is worth money? Shouldn't I at least have control over that. If I have control over neither than what do I get control over? Attaching a link to a libertarian site to your comments is an abomination.

As for your so called "100 examples of time-wasting more significant than spam [and telemarketing]." I call bullshit. I dare you to name 10 time wasters that affect you as you sit in your house minding your own business.

You sir are a Troll.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[ratamacue]

I never said that you should never be able to prove in civil court that a spammer has wasted your money and owes you compensation. If you can take the initiative to do that, and your case is legitimate, then more power to you. What I am against is the government forcing me to support an expansion of power that I do not want or need. We already have laws to deal with this.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[BryanL]

You must not be a homeowner. I get about 8-10 calls a day from telemarketers. It is sad to read comments like this because it exemplifies a common view that I see: that a business has more rights than I do as a real, voting human being. It is the job of the federal government to look out for its people. I find these calls to be nuisance and look forward to some kind of legislation to free me of them.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[2short]

You seem to be saying that in a perfect world, I could put a price on making my phone ring without my consent, and successfully sue the telemarketer. So far, I agree entirely.

But then you use this to support your opposition of this law. Well, news flash, we do not live in a perfect world. Here in the real world, this law strikes me as a simple pragmatic way to address this particular imperfection in our world, with minimal impact on you, the taxpayer.

I'm fairly libertarian myself, but any set of ideals untempered by pragmatism is idiocy.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[Anonymous Coward]

How exactly will the taxpayers be penalized? The article clearly states that the cost of the registry is burdened by the tele-marketers.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[SeanAhern]

That's what the government is there for, to make my life easier (or safer).

As much as you might like it, you're wrong.

"Safer," I can probably believe, if you're talking about "providing for the common defense." But easier is certainly not the job of the federal government. It most definitely is not in the constitution. Since the federal government is limited to only those powers which are described in the constitution, you're outta luck, buddy.

Re:As much as I like the idea ...

[Just Jim]

And what's wrong with the government protecting my property? That's what my telephone, and my telephone line is, MY property.

I see nothing wrong with the government making it possible for me to put up "no trespassing" signs, nor for the government to either enforce those signs, or make it possible for me to enforce them.

Favorite Telemarketer Reponses

[Limburgher]

"Thanks, but I was saved at the office."

"Thanks, but if you'll check your records, I already HAVE your long distance. (click)"

"Nigeria, you say? Let me get my checkbook."

"Sorry, but I'm illiterate and proud of it, so I won't be needing magazines."

"No, but would you like to buy my 1992 Chevy Cavalier? Low, low miles!"

And, my favorite. . .

"Sorry, we don't have a phone. (click)"

I worked as a telemarketer...

[Jacer]

for a week to get money for rent one month. I may have stayed longer had I thought it in anyway ethical. The first thing you have to be aware is the close, they use information they know to be accurate, such as "To get you started, I just need to confirm your current address is " and if when you say that it is your current address, you're agreeing to the sale, now, they can't sign you up off of this, they have to record the offer, and you accepting it, but it's just a step to "confuse" the customer as they were telling me. Furthermore, they have to close the phone call by giving you a toll-free number, or possibly an email address or URL at which customer service can be reached. If they don't, all you have to do is call FCC and tell them the name of the company they were calling on behalf of, they'll do the rest and you'll get $500 of the fine (this is how I paid the rent the month after I quit) Another thing you can do is request their do-not-call policy, it's a document dictating all of their policies, it's just to irritate them. Just incase any of you were curious, I worked at Access Direct, in Ames, Iowa, and we were calling nationally on behalf of DirecTV.

Re:I worked as a telemarketer...

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked as a telemarketer in N.J. calling on behalf of charities and NONE of what you said applied to us.

Re:I worked as a telemarketer...

[CrazyDuke]

Work at home, get revenge, sounds too good to be true. Just listen to the spleal and make sure they say the 800 at the end, huh?

Bill Number is H.R. 395

[adenied]

For those who want to read the full text of the bill, it's H.R. 395. You can go to the Library of Congress's Thomas website to look it up but I've also pasted a copy here.

And for those who don't understand how laws work in the US, this just means that now it gets to go over to the Senate, who then may or may not approve it, who can then approve it with amendments, send it back to the House for further approval in a committee or two, and eventually send it off to the President to sign into law.

And this has little to do with H.J.Res. 2 which is the Omnibus Appropriations Bill that is currently in committee. Well, other than dealing with money.

AN ACT

To authorize the Federal Trade Commission to collect fees for the implementation and enforcement of a `do-not-call' registry, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Do-Not-Call Implementation Act'.

SEC. 2. TELEMARKETING SALES RULE; DO-NOT-CALL REGISTRY FEES.

The Federal Trade Commission may promulgate regulations establishing fees sufficient to implement and enforce the provisions relating to the `do-not-call' registry of the Telemarketing Sales Rule (16 CFR 310.4(b)(1)(iii)), promulgated under the Telemarketing and Consumer Fraud and Abuse Prevention Act (15 U.S.C. 6101 et seq.). Such regulations shall be promulgated in accordance with section 553 of title 5, United States Code. Fees may be collected pursuant to this section for fiscal years 2003 through 2007, and shall be deposited and credited as offsetting collections to the account, Federal Trade Commission--Salaries and Expenses, and shall remain available until expended. No amounts shall be collected as fees pursuant to this section for such fiscal years except to the extent provided in advance in appropriations Acts. Such amounts shall be available for expenditure only to offset the costs of activities and services related to the implementation and enforcement of the Telemarketing Sales Rule, and other activities resulting from such implementation and enforcement.

SEC. 3. FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION DO-NOT-CALL REGULATIONS.

Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Federal Communications Commission shall issue a final rule pursuant to the rulemaking proceeding that it began on September 18, 2002, under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act (47 U.S.C. 227 et seq.). In issuing such rule, the Federal Communications Commission shall consult and coordinate with the Federal Trade Commission to maximize consistency with the rule promulgated by the Federal Trade Commission (16 CFR 310.4(b)).

SEC. 4. REPORTING REQUIREMENTS.

(a) REPORT ON REGULATORY COORDINATION- Within 45 days after the promulgation of a final rule by the Federal Communications Commission as required by section 3, the Federal Trade Commission and the Federal Communications Commission shall each transmit to the Committee on Energy and Commerce of the House of Representatives and the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate a report which shall include--

(1) an analysis of the telemarketing rules promulgated by both the Federal Trade Commission and the Federal Communications Commission;

(2) any inconsistencies between the rules promulgated by each such Commission and the effect of any such inconsistencies on consumers, and persons paying for access to the registry; and

(3) proposals to remedy any such inconsistencies.

(b) ANNUAL REPORT- For each of fiscal years 2003 through 2007, the Federal Trade Commission and the Federal Communications Commission shall each transmit an annual report to the Committee on Energy and Commerce of the House of Representatives and the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate a report which shall include--

(1) an analysis of the effectiveness of the `do-not-call' registry as a national registry;

(2) the number of consumers who have placed their telephone numbers on the registry;

(3) the number of persons paying fees for access to the registry and the amount of such fees;

(4) an analysis of the progress of coordinating the operation and enforcement of the `do-not-call' registry with similar registries established and maintained by the various States;

(5) an analysis of the progress of coordinating the operation and enforcement of the `do-not-call' registry with the enforcement activities of the Federal Communications Commission pursuant to the Telephone Consumer Protection Act (47 U.S.C. 227 et seq.); and

(6) a review of the enforcement proceedings under the Telemarketing Sales Rule (16 CFR 310), in the case of the Federal Trade Commission, and under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act (47 U.S.C. 227 et seq.), in the case of the Federal Communications Commission.

Passed the House of Representatives February 12, 2003.

Attest:

Clerk.

Re:Bill Number is H.R. 395

[jhampson]

And for those who don't understand how laws work in the US, this just means that now it gets to go over to the Senate, who then may or may not approve it, who can then approve it with amendments, send it back to the House for further approval in a committee or two, and eventually send it off to the President to sign into law.
RTA. It says "The program will not need separate Senate approval under an agreement reached late Wednesday." It was presented by Tauzin and Hollings, who have the full blessing of [$corp] to declare it the 11th commandment.

What's your phone number?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure you won't mind a few convenient offers from companies carefully selected for you then.

Re:What's your phone number?

[ratamacue]

Maybe he's smart enough to avoid spam and telemarketers in the first place. Or maybe he doesn't mind it so much. Perhaps he even likes it. Have you considered that people are unique, thinking individuals, each with their own values, ideals, likes, dislikes, and philosophy? Or have you simply assumed that everyone thinks alike, as government has taught you since you were a small child?

If I might remind you, he's the one who accepts that individuals are fully responsible for thier own lives. He's the one who wants to take responsibility for his own life. As far as I can tell, you are part of the group who rejects that responsibility and puts it on everyone else.

Re:What's your phone number?

[2short]

I too wish to take responsibility. As it happens, I do not want anyone I don't know to cause my telephone to ring. How do you suggest I bring about this desire?
I'm not asking anyone to ban telemarketing outright. I see no problem with the government making it possible for me to take responsibility.

Nor, frankly, do I see any problem with a sufficient number of people taking responsibility collectively via government.

Re:What's your phone number?

[ratamacue]

The problem is that not everyone wants or needs this expansion of government, yet they are forced to support it. Of course, this the is root problem with any expansion of government.

Re:What's your phone number?

[Steve B]

As it happens, I do not want anyone I don't know to cause my telephone to ring. How do you suggest I bring about this desire?

Well, since he doesn't want the guvmint to enforce your private property rights, I can only assume that he wants you to enforce them yourself a la Bun-Bun.

Re:What's your phone number?

[ratamacue]

I most certainly do want government to enforce property rights. In fact, that is one of the only things I *do* want government to be involved in. But we already have laws to enforce property rights!

If you are that concerned about spam, then why can't you take them to court? Because the judicial system is corrupt, inefficient, and overly expensive? Sorry, but that's not my fault.

Re:What's your phone number?

[2short]

"Not everyone wants it, yet they are forced to help pay for it" can probably be said of every law, program, regulation...

Well, tough. Democracy is not anarchy.

Re:What's your phone number?

[2short]

"why can't you take them to court?"

Because it is currently perfectly legal for telemarketers to make my phone ring. This law would give me the power to change that. And despite your moaning about having to pay for it, after the initial start up, it is the telemarketers who pay for it. Which seems perfectly reasonable in exchange for having the default be that they can make my phone ring.

Ever try talking sexually to them? No more ;)

[digitalgimpus]

to get rid of a telemarketer:

"Hey there ____, would you like to help get me off"

- No

"Why don't you pitch your product while I undress"

- uh

"Mmm that's better.... Now what are you wearing? Or not wearing?"

- excuse me!

"Ohh, Ahh..... Yes! Yes!"

(if still on the phone)

"Damn, forgot to tell you... I have herpies and AIDS, hope you don't mind"

[i]if heterosexual, and your a man:[/i]
"Damn, is Bin Laden hanging out in there, that's one cave that many men can hide in. How many men did it take to get like that?"

[i]if heterosexual, and your a women:[/i]
"I'm pregnant, when can I get my first check?"

[i]if homosexual conversation (man man, women women):[/i]

If they still don't hang up:

"PERVERT!"

Works every time.

More Big Brother Government?

[Pave Low]

I'm kind of confused about the slashdot crowd's hypocrisy by hating all these Big Brother and anti-free speech laws, and then cheering new laws that just turn the government into more Big Brother.

In my opinion, new laws like these are not needed and will just bring more overhead and telemarketers will just find loopholes around this. Why not just enforce the laws on the books against harassment?

This just sets a precedent for creating more National "do not do this" lists that threaten our rights as well as these "evil companies".

Re:More Big Brother Government?

[forkboy]

Disallowing a corporation (a non-entity as far as most people are concerned) from harassing or annoying private citizens is hardly the same thing as preventing a private citizen from doing something that annoys or harms corporations.

The bill of rights protects individuals, not corporations...let Uncle Sam stick it to em all he wants. The laws on the books will not prevent telemarketers from calling you, as you is quite obvious. The do not call lists that are already in place in various states work great, harm no one , and make life better in general for everyone.

in PA...

[jeffy124]

...there's a Do Not Call list, and the State Attorney General is enforcing it. Earlier this week they fined two companies (I think they're ski resorts) for violating the list:
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/516 1728.htm (scroll about 3/4 down)

I'll miss the calls, actually

[mao che minh]

I for one was learning to enjoy the deluge of late night calls and the oppurtunities for abuse that they offerred. If the caller is a woman, I always just start hitting on her and ignore eveything she says until she hangs up. I will also repeatedly ask her "what are you wearing", ignoring all other statements other then those concerning her dress. As soon as she tells me what she's wearing, I thank her and hang up.

If the caller is a man, I keep responding to their sales pitches with sensless phrases like "Remember the Alamo" or start reading to them whatever book I was currently reading when they called. I'll miss these good times.

Will be such a relief!

[DesiDudette]

Oh I will be soooo happy...it will be such a relief! I work from home and I hate it when the phone rings all day long with those unwanted calls!!

Re:Will be such a relief!

[Anonymous Coward]

> I work from home and I hate it when the phone rings all day long with those unwanted calls!!

I work from home too. The worst is when they wake you up from a good nap!!

For 5 bucks a month..

[antis0c]

Verizon has a service that will block incoming calls who's caller ID is marked private or out of area. It doesn't entirely block them however, it presents them with a message that they must leave their name and wait for me to accept the call.

I actually got this service because some automated computer system in another state had my number in it to automatically call to do some kind of batch processing (someone fat fingered the number obviously..). So every day, twice a day at exactly 10am and 3pm, I'd get a call with no answer. Since it was out of area, Verizon couldn't specifically block it (or so they told me), but they offered this service. For 5 bucks a month I figured what the hell, but I also noticed that now that I have the service in place, I never get telemarketing calls anymore.

It also has a feature if in case someone you know who regularually calls you has an out of area or private number can enter a simple 4 digit pin to automatically be put through without leaving a message and waiting for me to accept.

I've had the service for about 6 months now, and it's been worth the $5/mo I've paid for it. Maybe with this Do-Not-Call list I won't need it anymore provided this batch machine no longer calls my number anymore..I doubt it though, considering telemarketing companies will lobby to have some kind of end run around it..

Re:For 5 bucks a month..

[fgb]

Its a great service. You might want to check one of their bundled packages. It's included in a lot of them. I was pleasantly surprised when a Verizon rep called me and offered to replace the service I had at the time (with Verizon) with another service (with Verizon, obviously) which had more features and cost less.

Re:For 5 bucks a month..

[(H)elix1]

Verizon has a service that will block incoming calls who's caller ID is marked private or out of area. It doesn't entirely block them however, it presents them with a message that they must leave their name and wait for me to accept the call.

Let me give another opinion...

I was the lucky stiff to get to do the technical interviews - since these were preliminary, it was over the phone. Several people had this service and it made life very difficult for me to call them. It might be worth dealing with the telemarketers for a month if you are job hunting...IMHO.

Re:For 5 bucks a month..

[KirkH]

So every day, twice a day at exactly 10am and 3pm, I'd get a call with no answer. Since it was out of area, Verizon couldn't specifically block it (or so they told me), but they offered this service.

Consider: easy way to get five more bucks a month from your customers: set up an automated dialer to bug them until they'll gladly subscribe to your service to block the calls. :)

Re:For 5 bucks a month..

[Anonymous Coward]

So over a five-year period, you pay 300 bucks (12 * 5 * 5) to not get telemarketer calls... I prefer the cheaper route of signing up for my state's dnc list and eventually the national dnc list.

Re:For 5 bucks a month..

[Zathrus]

The lovely thing about this is that most of the telemarketers bought your number from... guess who... Verizon!

So not only did they make money selling your number to telemarketing scum, they're now making money off you for what they did.

Re:For 5 bucks a month..

[ducaliner]

For the past 7 years I get 4-5 calls a week, sometimes several times a day ... by people, automated dialers... the works, etc... I've asked to be removed, I've written to the National telemarketer managed "please remove from list" registry several times to no avail. I always end up on their lists again. If you even answer the phone telling them to remove you from their list, you will still be "tagged" as a potential target no matter what. Also, there is no Massachusetts "Do-Not-Call-Me Registry", and according to an NPR piece, this natioal legislation is not likely to pass the Senate. So yes, finally I signed up for Verizon's Call Intercept service as well. It is ironic that we are paying our own phone company (a telemarketer itself) a fee to block their own & their business partner's automated dialers. Huh...kinda makes you think that you're getting screwed. Well, it has still been worth every penny I can tell you- no more calls EVER!!! It's also blocked ALL other non-automated telemarkets who aren't willing to sit through a 30 second long outgoing message. $300 over 5 years translates to 16 cents a day. To me, it's been worth EVERY PENNY and then some! Highly recommended. I did not know about the PIN, will inform my two friends who call regularly. If Verizon is pulling the same thing as SBC (harrassing their own customers with automated dialers in order to sign them up for a "blocking service") then they should be punished. But if this service is blocking other company's automated dialers, I have no problem with this service. how can one find out who is running an automated dialer?

Re:For 5 bucks a month..

[Ron Atkinson]

I used to have that feature here (I'm in Michigan where we have SBC, formerly Ameritech), but I had to drop it because over time it no longer worked.

When they first offered "Privacy Manager" I jumped on it right away and stopped getting telemarketer calls just like they advertised. But after a while suddenly calls started pouring in. At first these telemarketers that used to have no caller ID information started to actually show up on the caller ID, but not with any name that would indicate a telemarketer. Some calls would show someones name, which makes you think it's a residential line, while others would be a business with a name that doesn't sound like something that you would think of as a telemarketer. Most were peoples names though.

Finally a new scam started to show up when the telemarketers would call, but this time the caller ID would not show any information (mine says "unavailable"), which is exactly what Privacy Manager should be blocking. One day just happen to be looking almost right at my caller ID display when a call came in and I saw what was going on. Caller ID basically sends a packet data burst I believe between the first and second rings (sometimes if you pick up the phone quickly you're hear this burst). What happened is that the caller ID display would briefly display a real name and number, but then suddenly get blanked out and be listed as "unavailable". I'm not sure how this one is being done (want a bet it's a feature the phone company offers to telemarketers) since I don't have any contacts anymore at the phone company. I found that I wasn't the only one to have had problems with telemarketers getting through Privacy Manager since a few of my friends started getting calls too.

Remember though that the phone company is not out to help just the consumer, but also the businesses that want to call you. Caller ID was introduced so you could see who is calling you (don't have to answer the phone on telemarketers), but then they offer a service to telemarketers and bill collectors to not have their numbers show up (where I work our offices show up, but our bill collectors will not). Then they offer a way to block calls with no caller ID information, and apparently they offer a way for telemarketers to get around that feature. In the meantime they keep charging everyone for each feature and making more money. I learned a while ago to be very suspicious about any features that the phone companies offer to "help you out" since they will offer something similar to someone else to "help them out" to get around the feature that you are paying for.

like tobaco

[Erris]

So either it's an "unfunded madate" for the FTC, or they intend to collect money from the telemarketing community very quickly. Oh no! If they can make money off it, it will never go away. That's why it's an opt-out instead of opt-in list. Look for any law to have enough loopholes to make no difference.

Mexico is revolution proof because they already had their revolution. Ha!

Non Cold Calls

[Flamesplash]

I wish this covered the problem with "utilities" you do subscribe to marketing more stuff to you.

For instance I have AT&T digital cable, however I get telemarketing calls from AT&T broadband which is a different subdivision in AT&T.

I started by yelling at the guy that he isn't supposed to Telemarket to Cell phone, since it is illegal, then he informed me that since I'm a Digital cable customer my contract gives them the right to. I then asked him to take me off of their call list, he informed me that because he is not part of the Digital Cable subdivision he doesn't have that authority. I hung up.

It's crap.

Re:Non Cold Calls

[nickclarke]

I started by yelling at the guy that he isn't supposed to Telemarket to Cell phone, since it is illegal, then he informed me that since I'm a Digital cable customer my contract gives them the right to.

Your contract gives them the right to break the law! I would have thought that would be illegal in itself. If they keep on calling you, prosecute them.

Re:Non Cold Calls

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't like the terms of the contract, try to renegotiate. If that fails, cancel

Worthless, thanks to loopholes

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of the telemarketing calls I get are from so-called charities, and from politicians. There is no reason why this "don't call list" should exempt them; if I don't want these people harassing me, I should be able to tell them not to before they ever bother me.

Re:Ever try talking sexually to them? No more ;)

[digitalgimpus]

Can you tell I spend to much time in UBB and phpBB...

Son of a bitch!

Re:fee-driven

[MacAndrew]

Everything I see appears to think it will be driven by telemarketer fees. Presumably the FTC *will* need some nominal funding up front to set it up. The article is badly written on this point. I wouldn't worry much, $16 million is peanuts out of $2+ trillion budget, I think they can scare up the money from the office supply funds.

Opting out of credit card solicitations

[GGardner]

Almost all of the credit card solicitations get your address from the credit bureaus. You can write to each of the three majors, and opt out. I've done this, and it has dramatically reduced the number of offers that I get. Reducing them is not just a convenience, it also reduces the chance of identity theft, or someone stealing the credit card application from the mail. Look up the opt-out instructions on the credit bureau websites (can't opt-out online, yet):

http://www.equifax.com
http://www.experian.com
http://www.tuc.com

Re:Opting out of credit card solicitations

[word munger]

I just now visited the equifax site. There's a single 800 number for all four major credit reporting agencies: 1-888-5-OPT OUT

It's a little scary entering your SSN into a computerized database, but I figured these guys already have a lot more on me, so I went ahead and did it. Hope it works.

Re:Opting out of credit card solicitations

[Turing Machine]

Absolutely. I did this a while back myself, and it really works. We still get one or two card solicitations every month, but it's a far cry from the dozens we were getting before.

It's definitely worth taking the time for this.

Fritz?

[pesc]

And the sponsor behind this bill is Ernest (Fritz) Hollings. The Disney senator behind UCITA, etc.

My head spins! Now what dark plots are behind this new do-not-call list?

Funds are on the way

[TCPALaw]

Methinks not... funding for it passed the house 418-7 yesterday. Quoteth a congresscritter by CNN:

"If anyone holds this legislation up, we're prepared to give out their home phone number," the Louisiana Republican said.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist supports the bill and is confident it will pass.

bullshit

[Erris]

My wife and I did that and the same people called right back the next day. Low budget callers simply give phone books to their $5/hour employees and tell them to call. Most other places just don't care.

Re:bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

The law is that if you say "put me on your do not call list," the caller has 30 days to comply, then can't call for a period of one year. So calling the next day, and each of the subsequent 28 or 29 days, is legal.

AT&T called me about 5 times in the same week...each time I'd tell them to put me on the do not call list, which sometimes they'd agree to, and other times they'd require personal information (yeah right!) before they'd agree. Nowadays I hang up on a person after making my request...either they do it or they don't, but I don't want to waste even more time negotiating the terms of not calling.

Re:bullshit

[SN74S181]

What other personal information would they need to put you on the do-not-call list except your phone number, which they presumably already had?

This is like the Radio Shack thing (which apparently no longer is happening). You say your name is 'cash' repeatedly to all questions.

Re:bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it was something like verifying my street address. Not very intrusive, and probably they had it anyway, but no way am I telling my address or other info to a stranger calling me with their caller ID blocked, as ransom for not calling me again. Maybe they wanted to verify the address to send me crap in the mail instead of calling.

How is this worthwhile if your number is unlisted?

[robkill]

Who has access to the "Do-Not-Call" list? If someone with an unlisted number puts that number on the Do-Not-Call list to avoid calls from "business partners" as the phone companies, credit card companies etc. like to call themselves, is he or she opening the door for anyone to get the number by obtaining the "Do-Not-Call" list?

NPR Yesterday, Slashdot Today

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen a trend lately where stories that appear on National Public Radio yesterday, end up here on Slashdot the next day.

In this case, they discussed this topic at length in the Justice Talking segment yesterday. You can even listen to it here:

http://www.justicetalking.org/viewprogram.asp?pr og ID=394

The London toll story was several weeks after it appeared on the radio.

Hey!

[Anonymous Coward]

Since every bad piece of legislation that gets passed gets blamed on the Bush administration, lets just give them credit to compensate!

Politics! Yay!

Is this the real deal?

[mrkurt]

I wonder if this bill will be the real deal. Skimming over it on Thomas, the bill is merely what they call an 'implementation' act. Both the FCC and FTC are to submit suggested reglations for the do-not-call list. Apparently the FCC is given precedence, and AFAIK they haven't come out with any proposed rules yet. They may not be as tough as those already proposed by the FTC.

What I do know is that a few weeks ago, Rep. Billy Tauzin was all-fired against the FTC regulations. Yet, in the article I read on a service supplied by AP, he was very supportive of this bill passing. Perhaps, because the devil is in the details. Sen. Fritz Hollings, proponent of that wonderful "Fritz chip" we've heard so much about, also was mentioned as lauding the passage of this bill.

I sense that if consumer advocates don't keep their eyes on the ball, do-not-call advocates will get rolled by Tauzin and Hollings, who have a reputation for standing up for big business interests in Hollywood and among the telcos. I am sure they will be ready to assist the telemarketers, if the price is right.

Top three signs...

[CoderByBirth]

...you're a Slashdot zealot:
3) Your leg twitches involuntarily every time someone says the word "linux"
2) You just changed telephone companies because the old one had a business agreement with Microsoft, which everyone knows mean that they spy on your calls
1) 50% of your calls are from telemarketers

michael michael....

[Anonymous Coward]

and the kitchen sink gets thrown into it just before it passes.

Dont them give them ideas. That sink might become part of the $500 hammer and $2000 toilet seat.

maybe OT: Guy that plays with telemarketers?

[gsfprez]

I once heard this guy on Howard Stern who recorded his sessions with telemarketers and he'd jerk them around.

One was a call from a carpet cleaning telemarketer. He told them that he had a _lot_ of blood all over the carpet, and the he wanted to know if they could come over in an hour... or sooner.

Howard said that it was a CD on sale.

i swear, i googled for it. Can't find it.

Re:maybe OT: Guy that plays with telemarketers?

[ToxicBear]

The guy you're looking for is Tom Mabe at http://www.tommabe.com. The blood on the carpet is one of the funniest things I've ever heard.

Re:maybe OT: Guy that plays with telemarketers?

[wwest4]

The same guy did an editorial on NPR the other day discussing this bill. He opposes it for obvious reasons ;)

Re:maybe OT: Guy that plays with telemarketers?

[wwest4]

Here is the interview I heard... I think he is the same guy.

Re:maybe OT: Guy that plays with telemarketers?

[BlackjackGuy]

The guy you're looking for is Jim Florentine. Not Tom Mabe. The CD is called Terrorizing Telemarketers. Get it here at Jim's site or even on Amazon. It's hilarious.

Re:maybe OT: Guy that plays with telemarketers?

[pcraven]

There was another one where he was pretended to be a guy that thinking about suicide. The person calling was selling caskets. So the telemarketer was both trying to talk him out of killing himself, but if he did, he should buy this casket.

Re:maybe OT: Guy that plays with telemarketers?

[msblack]

I probably heard the same guy, but not on HS.
I believe the guy's name is Tom Mabe and the
CD is called "Revenge On The Telemarketers."
It was very satisfying to listen to all those
skits.

that didn't work for me.

[sirshannon]

apparently there is a never-ending stream of new people who will call me. And a large percentage of my incoming telemarketing calls are recordings, not real people.

clout visa is a bitch

[Anonymous Coward]

i would usualy ignore such article as these about telemarketing, but... after dealing with a case of misrepresentation yesterday by visa i am more inclined to push for ledgislation to stop telemarketing. Fucking visa said they were my college and then made me give them information.... as soon as i asked for a manager they hung up. the only reason i found out who it was is that not 1 minute from hanging up the phone my roomate was called by the same fuckers.

Right...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Good to know that there's at least one useful piece of legislation. "

That's okay, I'm sure by the time all the legislators and lobbyists are done, it won't be that useful at all.

Yup...

[TCPALaw]

The FTC do-not-call list will not apply to calls from those industries (the FTC is not empowered to regulate them) but it WILL apply to calls from telemarketing firms hired BY those industries that call on their behalf. The second shoe (a bigger and heavier one) is the FCC action that will be announced in a month or two... the FCC DOES have the express authority to enact a nationwide do-not-call list that does apply to all of those industries - every one of them.

Wisconsin's List

[Stanl]

More than 1 million people have signed up for our "do-not-call" list, which went into effect Jan. 1. Residents are already noticing a difference. Interestingly enough, MCI is suspected of violating the rules and calling people anyway, according to our state officials. The AG's office is investigating, but for these lists to truly be effective, someone is going to have to make an example out of a few companies trying to slip through.

Re:Wisconsin's List

[Ignorant Aardvark]

More than 1 million people have signed up for [Wisconsin's] "do-not-call" list.

That pretty amazing, considering less than 1 million people live in Wisconsin ... BADA-BANG!

National Do Not Email list is needed

[Ozor]

Please pass this BiLL !!!!!!!!!!!

Re:National Do Not Email list is needed

[nickclarke]

"In order to show your support for the national do-not-email list, please forward this message to at least 10 people"

Not out of the woods yet!

[Logic Bomb]

Everyone please remember that the House passes stuff all the time that never even gets brought up in Senate committee meetings. It's become the most convenient way for the national parties to claim, "hey, we're working here!" while not actually following through. However, there is a short window of opportunity where true momentum can be created. If you want to see this actually made into a law, now is the time to CALL or FAX your senator. Simply explain that you are a constituent, you were thrilled to hear that the do-not-call list bill passed in the House, and you expect the Senate to take up the matter.

Not sure of how to contact your senator (or who he/she is)? United States Senate

Re:Not out of the woods yet!

[Zordak]

If you want to see this actually made into a law, now is the time to CALL or FAX your senator.

Or better yet, set up an automated dialler to repeatedly call all of the Senators.

Ya see!?

[fudgefactor7]

Bitching does work! Now that the Senate needs to approve this for it to work, EVERY American who is sick to death of telemarketing calls needs to write, fax, call their Senator and tell them to pass this legislation ASAP!

The real question is

[truth_revealed]

who the their right mind would not want to be part of a "do not call" registry? Lonely or insane people? People with too much money to burn? The government would save a lot of money creating a "please call" registry. That way the drug companies would know exactly who to target their anti-depressant drugs to.

Re:The real question is

[Drakonian]

Just like spam: lazy and stupid people.

No it wouldn't...

[MongooseCN]

If the government knows they'll get 11,000$ for every illegal telemarketing call, you know they are going to spend every possible effort to collect it. They could hire people who's job is to hunt down these illegal phone calls. Just 4 calls in the entire nation each year would pull in 44,000$, enough to pay someone fulltime to track these calls.

Just think of how much effort the government goes to get a few extra hundered dollars off your tax form, so what do you think they will do to get an extra 11,000$ for a bad phonecall?

Jobs program for China.

[PHAEDRU5]

So, what's the U.S. Government going to do when all your telemarketing calls start coming in from China?

You know, like all the spam.

Re:Jobs program for China.

[mccalli]

So, what's the U.S. Government going to do when all your telemarketing calls start coming in from China?...You know, like all the spam.

This is precisely the reason I haven't signed up for the UK's 'Do Not Email' list. It seems to be a guaranteed way of getting hold of live addresses, and it's likely that whoever sends the spam is doing so from outside the UK's jurisdiction.

Mind you, the UK Telephone Preferences Service works a treat, as does its Mailing Preferences Service.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Jobs program for China.

[johnopolis]

As soon as I read the headline I thought "Well, we can count on double the junk mail and triple the spam". When junk mail has a postage paid return envelope, I like to drop it in the mail with nothing in it as long as it doesn't identify me at all. Gives the post office something to do while I send E-mail and pay my bills online.

Re:Jobs program for China.

[Stonehand]

That's unlikely. For spam, since many admins in the Orient don't seem to give a damn about who they're relaying e-mail for, and since they don't (can't, really, as long as they relay blindly) charge money for this, spammers use 'em.

Free phone relays, however, don't exist as far as I know. International calls (a) mostly require somebody to actually BE there, and (b) cost a non-trivial amount of money, normally.

Re:Jobs program for China.

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of customer service jobs have moved to India. A piece on NPR a while back interviewed Indians who went through American dialect programs, and spent a few minutes each day keeping up with American news (weather patterns and such..."so, how ya likin' that thar storm out in minnesota?") Obviously they're working with a different business model than telemarketers, but it does demonstrate that the telecom costs can be offset by the labor costs for certain situations. As long as the law doesn't prohibit this, I'm sure it would be economically viable for some international telemarketers. The thing is, I think the customer service outsourcing involves satellite communication between India and the US, but then a US sat-to-telephone system interface, and that probably wouldn't get around this law.

Re:Jobs program for China.

[DavidTC]

You are under no obligation to put anything in the envelope...send it back even if they can identify you, there's nothing they can do.

Re:Jobs program for China.

[Anonymous Coward]

So, what's the U.S. Government going to do when all your telemarketing calls start coming in from China?

Cash in on phone bill taxes, duh

Re:Jobs program for China.

[betis70]

>>International calls (a) mostly require somebody to actually BE there, and (b) cost a non-trivial amount of money, normally.

So how come lately most of my telemarketer calls come from people with Indian accents (presumably in India, considering some of the stories I have seen on this)?

Re:Jobs program for China.

[BryanL]

The problem is, I don't understand Manderin or Cantonese.

...and they still called back!

[drfishy]

This only happened once, but I swear it's true: A telemarketer called once and my dad answered the phone (this was before caller ID) he happened to be armed at the time... When he realized what he was talking to he walked outside, screamed "OH MY GOD!!!" fired two shots into the ground and slammed the phone onto the picnic table! When he picked it up the telemarketer had hung up. However, we have recieved calls from the organization since... Go figure.

Re:...and they still called back!

[Anonymous Coward]

"he happened to be armed at the time... fired two shots into the ground..."

Only in the "Good Ol' U. S. of A."

(Score: -1 Flamebait)

Re:...and they still called back!

[mccalli]

When he realized what he was talking to he walked outside, screamed "OH MY GOD!!!" fired two shots into the ground and slammed the phone onto the picnic table! When he picked it up the telemarketer had hung up. However, we have received calls from the organization since

Arms dealers?

Cheers,
Ian

Favorite telemarketer response

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Seinfeld said it best

"I'm sorry but I'm kind of busy right now, how about
you give me your home phone number and I'll call you
back when I'm at work."

Another List

[Gothmolly]

Great, I want my name and number on yet another government list!

Two anti-telemarketing scripts

[lightspawn]

"Telemarketers always use a script: why shouldn't you?"

Serious script

Fun script

mods on crack

[Anonymous Coward]

ce fils de con (ou de tazunien, c'est selon) est redondant et se paye une .sig a faire se retourner Lafayette dans la tombe...

aka, pour ces kraitins de glichophones :
why has he been modded up for something that has previously been said ?

Stopping telemarketers

[Reality Master 101]

This is certainly a step in the right direction, but if you want do something now, do what I did which has actually almost completely stopped telemarking calls.

Just interrupt their spiel and say the magic words: "could you take me off the call-list, please?" They will usually immediately stop and just say "Sure!" and hang up. Don't get your blood pressure up, just say the magic words and you're gone.

Since I stopped getting annoyed and did this absolutely consistently, telemarking calls have almost completely stopped. The only ones I still get are automated recordings where I don't feel like trying to drill-down to a real person. They're pretty rare, though.

Re:it hurts

[Anonymous Coward]

well, lucky you then, you just evaded some pain

Homepage

[tspilman]

Here is the home page for it. Keep it bookmarked!

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/edcams/donotcall/in dex.html

Wanted: Same for email

[Frodo420024]

If only they could do the same thing (effectively) for e-mail...

Not the end of the problem

[Animus Howard]

> Now I won't have to ignore my telephone when it rings

Don't start picking up your phone quite yet. The article says "Charities, surveys and calls on behalf of politicians would be exempt".

Think about it... If they outlawed all radio advertising except your business wouldn't you do more radio advertising? I mean, all of the "clutter" would be gone, and your message would be more effective. In this case, people will be generally less ticked off about unsolicited calls so they will be more likely to talk to a caller.

And the word "surveys" is a loophole so big you could drive a truck through it.

"Hello sir, we are doing a survey to find out how many people would shop at K-Mart if CDs were on sale for $12.99."

Re:Not the end of the problem

[Darth RadaR]

Definite loophole there.

I can imagine what's next.

Hello. You have been pre-approved for a Visa that donates to $CHARITY.

Re:Not the end of the problem

[/dev/trash]

I see what you are saying but it has not happned to me when I signed up for PA's list.

$16 million per year?!

[cmburns69]

So why does it cost so much? I could run a database with millions of records for WAY less than that...

Just another example of our tax dollars hard at work!

An online Starcraft RPG? Only at

Its only America that sends out spam eMail anyway

[Anonymous Coward]

j00 lews3r FuxX

Re:Is this the real deal? FTC+FCC=dynamic duo

[MacAndrew]

According to this article (in "Ad Age" -- and pretty good, what do you know), the FCC is planing to follow FTC's lead. And FTC sounds quite eager, after getting 50,000 complaint letters (that beats 50,000 calls). There is a jurisdictional distinction between the two agencies, but if they act in union they will be able to cover a spectrum of industries from banking to satellite TV to your local used car salesperson and so on.

Does anyone have any details on the likely legal challenges? I know the industry filed in anticipation of the legislation, arguing First Amendment and loss of jobs. I'm willing to listen to the first; but the second? C'mon guys, you had your chance on that one with Congress. Anyway, I'd like to see the actual complaint or motion for injunction, now that the issue is coming to a head. At the very least I would expect litigation to delay implementation of the DNC list.

Why take the high ground?

[wantedman]

When you can sink this low. This script is so much fun, everytime I pick up the phone, I HOPE its a telemarketer

Anti-Telemarketer Script

Senator Hollings eh?

[camt]

Anyone else find it ironic that Senator Hollings was the backer on this bill?? It has me wondering what the catch is.. Surely there has to be some evil wording in it somewhere if he is involved.

-- Cameron

You really want them to...

[iamacat]

take you off their "don't call" list?

"Terrorizing Telemarketers"

[cyb3r0ptx]

You may be thinking of Jim Florentine who has appeared frequently on Stern's show. The name of the series is "Terrorizing Telemarketers" and there are 3 CDs out now. For more info:

http://www.jimflorentine.com/home.html

He also plays the "Special Ed" character on Crank Yankers.

Re:"Terrorizing Telemarketers"

[Herkum01]

I remember a few of these. When he got on one radio show, he immediately called a telemarketing company up and tried to sell them his car. They immediately hung up. He called and said, "Oh, sorry about that, the phone must be acting funny," and then continued to go about his car. The receiptionist said, "I am not interested in your car."

His reply was, "Well that never stopped your company from calling me!" Man was that receptionist mad!

Finally getting it right...

[airrage]

In texas, to successfully protect your privacy, you need to register with the texas do-not-call (dnc) list costing about five dollars per year. Next, on the national level, you need to opt-out (for life) from all credit-card offers, mass solicitations, etc, by registering with the four credit bureaus. There is a 1-800 number for this somewhere. Next, you need to send a similar form letter to the National Advertisers Organization opting out as well (more information can be found through research).

It's so good to see this coming through. But it's also about technology and where we draw the line on privacy. The Euros, for all their failings, got this right, they're system is starts with the customer in opt-out mode, whereas we are all opt-in, thus the thousand letters from Visa.

The marketers, from the article, and other things I've read, talk about cost. This is, well bullshit. Yes, it will cost them more, on a relative basis, because their samples are based on a two-percent acceptance rate BY SENDING EVERY US CITIZEN A FLYER! But what if you could identify those people who really did want information, then there is no wasted paper, or time, or energy. That's less money! I'm sure someone, somewhere needs a free carpet-cleaning estimate and ten dollars off their next pizza, but it ain't me.

Will it cost jobs? Yes, telemarketer jobs. But the reason those jobs are so prevalent is because you have to call EVERY CITIZEN IN THE UNITED STATES. Yes, those jobs will right-size, but you are assured that those person are talking to people who are interested. Does it all make sense now? I hate when people make stupid arguments that defy common sense and macroeconomics.

Side effect for statistical surveys?

[sterno]

What kind of impact will such a law have on statistical surveys? I mean, I don't want people trying to sell me stuff but I'm always happy to answer a survey. The problem I can see with this is that large groups of people are now going to be eliminated from the statistical sampling pool. Up until now, random phone sampling was the best way to get a statistically significant sample, but this could harm that. If a relatively even distribution of people get on these lists, then maybe it won't be a problem. Heck, it might even save time and money for survey companies since they don't have to call people who don't want to talk.

There was already some suggestion that in this past election, statistical projections were skewed because of people using call blocking technology, etc. This would just make that sort of skewing worse. It also makes one wonder if that support for the war right now is not what it appears to be. It may be that the statistics skew that number higher or lower because people aren't putting up with the surveyors.

Re:Side effect for statistical surveys?

[Phoenix]

It's probally going to have a limited adverse effect on surveys. Those who don't mind taking surveys (such as yourself) are probally going to be blocking those callers. While on the other hand it's probally not going to make that much of a difference for those of us who are likely to enjoy blocking them.

"There was already some suggestion that in this past election, statistical projections were skewed because of people using call blocking technology, etc."

Honestly I don't see how they'd be getting statistical data off of me this past election since my resposnse to all of them (my own party included) was "sod off".

Re:Side effect for statistical surveys?

[rpillala]

The bill cites the "Telemarketing Sales Rule" from which I obtained the following definitions:

(t) Telemarketer means any person who, in connection with telemarketing, initiates or receives telephone calls to or from a customer.

(u) Telemarketing means a plan, program, or campaign which is conducted to induce the purchase of goods or services by use of one or more telephones and which involves more than one interstate telephone call. The term does not include the solicitation of sales through the mailing of a catalog which: contains a written description or illustration of the goods or services offered for sale; includes the business address of the seller; includes multiple pages of written material or illustrations; and has been issued not less frequently than once a year, when the person making the solicitation does not solicit customers by telephone but only receives calls initiated by customers in response to the catalog and during those calls takes orders only without further solicitation. For purposes of the previous sentence, the term "further solicitation" does not include providing the customer with information about, or attempting to sell, any other item included in the same catalog which prompted the customer's call or in a substantially similar catalog.

It doesn't look like someone conducting a survery falls under the definition of "telemarketer" because they aren't solicitng a purchase.

I'm a teacher, though, and NAL.

Ravi

Politicians Exempt

[Geo-Mike]

Not surprisingly, the house exempted itself from the legislation.

Are there exceptions?

[cosmosis]

Are there exceptions to this rule? In otherwords who specifically is classified as a Telemarketer. Are the Shriners, Muscular Dystrophy, your neighbors girl scout drive, local newspaper, etc. also considered telemarketers? What about small local businesses who call you for business?

Re:Are there exceptions?

[operagost]

Non-profit orgs and businesses with whom you have a prior business relationship are exempted.

Re:Are there exceptions?

[rmadmin]

Uhm, this wont be abused! How about this example: I buy something from Hotmail, thus prior business is established. Suddenly, NBC, Comcast, and every other little thing MS has itself dug into starts calling me. Ick ick ick.. I don't like it.

Or is their a check in place to stop this from happening?

Re:Are there exceptions?

[ZoneGray]

I believe they've also exempted political candidates, in the name of free speech. That's why I'm not excited about this, and frankly kind of pissed off about it. Do Not Call means Do Not Call. It sure as hell is no less annoying if somebody is soliciting power or pushing some dumbass cause.

What I make of this is that it's okay to call me up and ask for money, as long as you don't give me anything in return for it. This is better?

Re:Are there exceptions?

[plimsoll]

That sucks. Many of the unsolicited solicitations I get are from MBNA, my credit card company. I get calls every once in a while asking if I want to do a balance transfer, or sign up for their platinum card, etc.

So if this new law passes, MBNA and other companies I already do business with will be the only ones who can call me with their "special offers?"

Today I get my bill from them every month festooned with ads for mailing address return label stickers, wind-up flashlights, "world's smallest" FM radios, etc.

Tomorrow they'll be the only ones who can call me at home to solicit the things telemarketers always have.

Wouldn't it be more effective if those businesses you already do business with are limited in their solicitations to hawking a range of products related to their industry only?

Re:Are there exceptions?

[EatHam]

Tell the companies that you deal with that you want to be put on "mail only" or don't give them your phone number at all. For example, I didn't have a land line for a while (until I got vonage which is great btw), and when I dealt with my companies, I told them that I had no phone. In addition, I did not want to be called, ever. FYI - this even works with the collections calls.

Re:Are there exceptions?

[GreyPoopon]

and every other little thing MS has itself dug into starts calling me.

Well, I think the solution here is obvious.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)

Re:Are there exceptions?

[Ho-Lee-Cow!]

Or is their a check in place to stop this from happening?

Yeah. Don't buy anything from a company that views you as a 'revenue stream' ;)

Re:Are there exceptions?

[AntiNorm]

Tomorrow they'll be the only ones who can call me at home to solicit the things telemarketers always have

Tell them that they will lose you as a customer if they telemarket to you.

Re:Are there exceptions?

[Anonymous Coward]

First, congratulations on getting the anti-Microsoft sentiment into the thread. I know how important that is for your Karma.

Second, why are you giving hotmail your phone number in the first place?

Third, I would think that only subsidiaries of the original company would have any chance of pulling this off. That would make NBC and Comcast out of the question.

Finally, if they do call just tell them to take you off their list.

Re:Are there exceptions?

[espresso_now]

FYI - this even works with the collections calls.

Just asking (on the phone) isn't enough, you have to write a letter.

Re:Are there exceptions?

[splatter]

Hey,
For your information MBNA has a do not call list as well as a seperate list that stops them from mailing the silly checks and other offers they do.

Call them and let them know. I have had my MBNA card for over two years and don't hear a thing from them anymore.

DP

Re:Are there exceptions?

[EatHam]

Not really. I recently moved and of course had to change my address with credit card companies, mobile phone, bank, etc. They asked for my new phone number, I told them that I didn't have one, and to put me on mail correspondence only. They have no telephone on record for me ergo they cannot call me for any reason at all.

Re:Are there exceptions?

[espresso_now]

Not really. I recently moved and of course had to change my address with credit card companies, mobile phone, bank, etc. They asked for my new phone number, I told them that I didn't have one, and to put me on mail correspondence only. They have no telephone on record for me ergo they cannot call me for any reason at all.

I was talking about the fact that a business can call you to collect money until you write a letter stating you wish to recieve only mail correspondence. Simply changing your number could have the same net effect, for a while... As soon as they get a hold of your home phone number they can call you.

who will build the service?

[phildog]

Does anyone know which government agency would be responsible for building this service? I currently work as a contractor (perl developer) for the US Courts and would love to get involved with this project from its initial stages.

not to take an unpopular side...

[cgenman]

I don't want anyone to think I'm in favor of intrusive marketing practices, but I've found the telemarketing industry to be surprisingly good about holding to their do-not-call lists. Having 5 credit cards (3 unused), I tend to be on a lot of lists. Eventually, I became fed up with advert calls on my cellular phone, and began telling them as such. Calls went from 4 per day, to zero... I haven't recieved an advert call in at least six months (the last one from AT&T to convince me to switch from my current cellular provider, AT&T).

I must admit, the telemarketing industry has been very good to me at least about respecting my marketing preferences. Perhaps if more people knew such a thing was an option we wouldn't need such legislation.

Now, E-mail marketers have been nothing but evil. But that, sadly, is a different bill.

Get some friends

[huckda]

"Now I won't have to ignore my telephone when it rings since more than 50 percent of my calls are from telemarketers."

Might wanna get out more often and make some friends so you can get phone calls from someone besides telemarketers =)

Not consistent

[iamacat]

I am pretty sure I can get your number from the phone book and just call you to chat. You might get annoyed, but I don't think you can sue me for not consulting "don't call" list. Otherwise someone (besides companies with 1-digit typos of 1-800-CALL-ATT) would make tons of money on people dialing wrong numbers.

Re:Not consistent

[iCharles]

Depends on the nature of the law, and the nature of the call.

As I understand how it will be written, it will be related to unsolicited calls with the intent to solicit business (probably written in such a fashion as "just a courtesy call" would be included).

In this scenario, if you were to pull my name out of the phone book as a private citizen, and just annoy me (say, singing "Fishheads," or talking about "Survivor"), it is an inconvience to me, rude, and in poor taste, but not illegal

If, on the other hand, you tried to sell me goods or services, then (depending on the wording of the law), you would be in violation if you didn't check the "do not call" list. That is the difference.

As an aside: the first ammendment means that you can say what you want, however, it does not guarantee you an audience. Also, as someone noted, it doesn't give you a right to someone else's property (my phone, land or computer) without their permission (i.e. if I say "stop it," you have to stop).

Loophole big enough to drive a truck through

[coinreturn]

Read the article - surveys are exempt. Does that mean if they survey you on some bullcrap first, then do the sales talk, they're exempt? Or could they just do a survey to see if you're interested in some aluminum siding (which they sell)?

Ulterior Motive: Campaign Telemarketing

[buckhead_buddy]

This "Do Not Call" list applies to cold contact calls, but it exempts certain charitable organizations, merchants you've done business with in the past, and (probably most important) political campaigning.

What better way to get a solid list of valid telephone numbers for use by your reelection campagin than going to the national do-not-call list? They can be assured that these are real people and not faxes or modems. They have some assurance that if the person isn't getting swamped with telemarketing calls from merchants that they'll be more receptive to their calls.

I think it's better than nothing, but don't think it's motivated by concern for constituents. It's just another case of enlightened self-interest.

I may get into telemarketing.

[blair1q]

Having the dead calls culled for me will improve the hit rate commensurately.

Cold calling just got profitable.

Charity organization ?

[bigmouth_strikes]

> some charity organization like the local police

Dude, you need to go outside more often.

Re:Charity organization ?

[Anonymous Coward]

okay, we all pay taxes, some of which goes to the police, all well and good. when they call and ask for more money, thats called charity.

The Telemarketing Lobby

[Anonymous Coward]

Around a month ago I caught the industry's lead lobbyist speaking out against this legislation on PBS's "News Hour". His central argument: Americans shouldn't be denied the right to choose whether or not they want to hear about new products.

Sleaze, pure sleaze.

Re: Surveys

[jpm165]

Jeesh, if you had bothered to read the article you are commenting on, you would have seen that it says "Charities, surveys and calls on behalf of politicians would be exempt". Next time RTFA!

Privacy Director works for me

[grommet_tdi]

I, too, thought about buying the 'zapper. I opted for BellSouth's privacy director instead. It forces all "Unknown" callers to identify themselves, *before* my phone rings. I then get a recorded message of the caller, where I have the option to simply blow them off. My telemarketing calls have screeched to a halt. To bad it costs me $6 a month. Oh well.

Re:Privacy Director works for me

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the really great thing about the phone companies and telemarketing. First, they sell your name to anyone and everyone who can pony up the cash. Then they charge you for a service that tries to prevent these people from calling you.

Lovely.

Re:Privacy Director works for me

[Sylver Dragon]

That's the really great thing about the phone companies and telemarketing. First, they sell your name to anyone and everyone who can pony up the cash. Then they charge you for a service that tries to prevent these people from calling you.

Does this remind anyone else of Dr.Seuss's "The Sneetches"? The phone companies are working both ends aginst the middle. First, let you pay them to be an "unlisted" number. Next, they sell the telemarketers the list of "unlisted" numbers. Then, they sell you Caller ID to allow you to tell friend from telemarketer. Next, the sell the telemarketers Caller ID block. Then they sell you a service to force telemarketers to identify themselves before they get to you. So what is the next step? Probably selling the telemarketers a way around the system. Truth is, its the phone companies who are to blame for a large part of this problem. They are using this game to profit from both you and the telemarketers. If you could actually rely on an "unlisted" number not getting called, we wouldn't have this problem. The phone book would probably be a lot smaller though.
I'm glad to see that congress is finally doing something to give us a bit of a break, though, as expected, they protected thier own interests by exempting themselves from the law, but I'll take what I can get. And just use this as an intellegence test for the politicians in my area, if you don't want me to vote for you, then go ahead and give me a call. If you have any interest in my vote then obligate yourself to follow the "Do Not Call" list, even if you are not required to.
As for the Charities exemption, I think this is just because they like to exempt charities from everything. Though calling me won't help their cause much, I already give to charity once a paycheck, that's more than enough. (Otherwise known as taxes).

8==(,,,)==D ~o ~O

[Anonymous Coward]

Two things

[Vile Slime]

Does anybody have a link to who voted for and who voted against this legislation?

We may not be out of the woods yet. The following link implies that the senate may be cutting off funding for the FTC's implementation (I.E. we'll pass it, make ourselves look like heroes, but not pay for it, thus effectively killing it).

Or at least that's my take on it, it's a bit hard to tell what's going on.

Article

VS

A better solution than do-not-call lists

[cheezfreek]

I have a much better solution to being annoyed by telemarketers. Well over half the calls my wife and I get are from her mother (4 times a day is unfortunately not out of the ordinary for her, as she essentially has no life). Now that this has been going on for a few years, I'm elated when I answer the phone and don't hear her voice. Even when it's a telemarketer. Telemarketers at least have a purpose for their mindless prattle, unlike my mother-in-law. I now consider telemarketers to be my best phone buddies. Problem solved.

And a do not mail list

[dnoyeb]

The US Govt can regulate everyone else, can they regulate themselves?

Junk mail is the original, will it be the last regulated? Im sure junk mail generates LOTS of money for the Post Office, as well as the logging industry.

un-plng the phone

[oliverthered]

I never anwser the phone at home,
only emails and my cell phone.

I only have a phone line because 'it' came with adsl.

Now all I have to do is block up the snail mail box and I'm free.... Maybe a £500 littering fine will stop the crap comming through.

Are you saying you don't get calls

[diablobynight]

I feel he is accurate, yesterday I got a call from my friend Jessica, my girlfriend, oh and I got one from my mom and dad, and then I got a credit card caller for fleet bank, a call for new siding, a call for someone to send me magazines to my house that I can freely stop at any time. I hate telemarketers, on my saturdays when I lazilly get out of bed at 2 pm, I ussually am woken up by telemarketers.

Re:Are you saying you don't get calls

[telstar]

"I feel he is accurate, yesterday I got a call from my friend Jessica, my girlfriend..."

"Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same." -- Oscar Wilde

• Does your girlfriend know about Jessica? Better yet, do either of them know about your sig line?

Re:Are you saying you don't get calls

[diablobynight]

Yes, Jessica is my girlfriend's best friend, we all hang out a lot, because we have all known each other for a long time. She thinks the quotes funny, I use it in my AIM profile. She thinks marriage is a crock, her parents divorced when she was 12

Yes, there is a system to opt-out in Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, there is a system to opt-out in Canada, although it is limited to a volontary association of marketers.

http://www.the-cma.org/consumer/donotcall/dnc_fa q. cfm

What I did

[kruczkowski]

I just called verizon and canceled my land line. All I have now is my cell. And I never get telemarketing calls on my cell becouse they know if they call my cell I can sue becouse they are using MY minutes.

Another thing I want to know, say you sign up, and some mom-and-pop shop that bought a telemartketing recording software calls you. What do you do? cWhat will happen? I would like to know what an individual has to do. Do you hire a layer? or does the agency do the paperwork?

Re:What I did

[Anonymous Coward]

becouse they know if they call my cell I can sue becouse they are using MY minutes.

so you're going to sue them for $0.76 or thereabouts? Riiiggghhhttt. I'm calling bullshit on you, Sir.

Re:What I did

[Anonymous Coward]

so you're going to sue them for $0.76 or thereabouts? Riiiggghhhttt. I'm calling bullshit on you, Sir.

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to telemarket to a cellphone number. There's a pretty hefty fine involved.

I, too, worked as a telemarketer...

[medscaper]

I did this same thing for a DAY in Fort Dodge, Iowa, back in 1990, when I was in need of money. It was SO sad. They gave us STACKS of printouts with lists of people who had been sent a complimentary copy of "Heavy Truck & Machine Trader".

It was just cold-calling, for the new guys like me. The subscription cost was $390 a year, and it was just like the Auto Trader you see at the Stop-n-Robs these days.

The sad thing was that they got their lists from DMV of people or organizations who had a semi or trailer combo registered. So, this got me into lots of screaming tirades from "customers" who were people like the church with the old broken down church bus in back that hadn't run in years or Goodwill, for crying out loud, because of their trailers. On my first day, though, I got 17 subscriptions filled. My boss was FLOORED. A good day was like...2 subscriptions. You got a $50 bonus for every subscription. So, when I handed her all the subscription cards, she flipped, and demanded to know why I was lying and forging subscription slips.

Oh, dear. So, I get escorted from the room with security while she calls each and every one of my "subscribers" to very rudely verify ("Do you realize HOW MUCH THIS WILL COST YOU every year??!" to the customers) each of them. Turns out that when she called them, they were each pissed about getting two calls in one day from someone they didn't want to talk to in the first place, and they all cancelled except two of them. Then, they played back the recordings of some of my conversations and discovered that I used the word "renew" with each of the customers, which, apparently we weren't EVER supposed to do... I was fired for "not being copmpletely honest". So, there is some honesty amongst telemarketers, and I got screwed out of any commission - even the ones who really did want the subscription, which is totally understandable. I screwed the pooch a bit on that one, but I found the language that made people buy, and used it.

The only fun thing I did in my work day was when I realized that I was calling an area in Washington State in which I had an uncle I hadn't talked to in awhile. He was a cabinet maker, and I had worked for him for a few months in the summers, so I knew his shop and his machinery, well. I called and his wife (the nicest lady you'd ever meet) answered. I gave her my usual droning speech from my card, and she politely refused, but thanked me. Then she hung up. I called back, and, determined to have some fun, started pointing out that we had his records and knew what machinery he had (started listing them for her) and that several were in need of updating (which they were) and wouldn't this be "lovely" gift for her husband. She again refused and hung up.

I gave it about 30 seconds, and called back. She was starting to get steamed when I started talking about how they could extend the shop past that apple tree in the back and put in some newer compressors and that we had that 36" sander he'd been looking for in our magazine. She started getting nervous, and didn't even reply when she slammed the phone down.

On the FOURTH call, she REALLY showed her true colors. She cussed like a sailor, threatened to call the cops, threatened my life, called me all sorts of names, and screamed like a banshee until I said, "Hey, Aunt Patty. It's me!" She choked her fury down enough to call me a couple of choice names and then hung up on me.

Hey, I was 18. We all laugh about it, now...

Re:I, too, worked as a telemarketer...

[Anonymous Coward]

The boss wants a check that doesn't bounce; verification by calling back is standard. It costs money to bill a client. I fired lots of morons like you when I ran a room of phones. The point is profit, not to see who can trick someone into saying "Yes". We want to remove phone numbers that waste our time. We don't want soft sales/contributions that get cancelled. You'd be amazed at the number of people who are happy to give ten bucks to every stupid charity that hires us to call for them; that's what we are looking for.

Society doesn't scale well.

[pmz]

One thing I realized recently is that telemarketing and SPAM are evidence that societies don't always scale well. Massive amounts of telemarketing and SPAM have actually made our society less efficient and have been facilitated by the same technology intended to help us all out. Very interesting.

It's sort of like the evolution of parasites but in a technological ecosystem.

Why does DMA fight this?

[swb]

Why does the DMA fight do-not-call lists, anyway? By my logic it indicates a group of people that don't want to buy anything on the phone, and those people are the ones that I wouldn't want to waste my time calling.

The denial of this simple logic by the DMA indicates that they're not interested in finding people who want to buy over the phone, they're interested in something shadier: hard sells, trick questions (I love when telemarketers hit you with the non-stop spiel that ends in "Shall I sign you up now?"), or even fraudulent sales (make phone call, talk to mark, charge mark's card regardless of what mark says).

Is there any other explanation other than the DMA members are more interested in fraud than legitimate sales to interested people?

This is a BAD idea

[telstar]

Now the X10 cameras and the Pasta Pot are going to cost in excess of $11,000 each!

Verizon's Call Intercept

[march]

Verizon's Call Intercept is the best damn $5/month I've ever spent.

No caller ID? You MUST record your name to get through. It has virtually stopped all telemarketers dead in their tracks.

Totally rocks!

(and no, I don't work for Verizon although I did work for NYNEX eons ago though...)

Re:Verizon's Call Intercept

[ducaliner]

I agree. This is the best $5/month I've spent as well. I went from 1-2 calls a day for 7 years, asking everytime to "please take me off your list" and also mailing to the current National Telemarketing managed "do not call me list" several times... and only after I signed up for this service have the calls stopped. For a mere 17 cents a day, it's worth every penny.

It would be a lot easier...

[cat_jesus]

To make a do call database. That way consumers who want telemarketers to contact them can opt in. It certainly would be an easier list to maintain.

I've always rankled at the fact that the phone company charges you extra to not sell your information to people or to not publish your number. I finally followed some examples of the people at slashdot and have gotten rid of my landline, except for the fax line. Now, only friends and people I do business with get my number. I keep my phone on vibrate and when I watch farscape I turn the phone off. My voicemail states that without leaving a message you have a 1% chance of actually getting me on the phone and a zero % chance if your number doesn't come up on Caller ID.

I'm seriously contemplating turning the ringer off altogether except for certain numbers. I'm just having a hard time deciding if my wife's number should ring silently or not.

Re:It would be a lot easier...

[40000]

to make a do call database because nobody would want to be in it. The "do not call" things don't affect telephone marketers so much because they have one chance to ring everybody first before anyone can complain.
I don't really like the idea of businesses ringing residential numbers at all, if you've got a problem you'll phone them first. Too many forms ask for phone numbers and e-mail adddresses these days when there isn't any obvious reason why they would need to contact you.

Why isn't the Senate involved?

[smiff]

It doesn't need to pass the Senate.

Which brings up the question, why not? Last time I read the constitution, all bills were required to go through both houses before they become law.

Re:Why isn't the Senate involved?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm calling BS. You've never read the Constitution.

yeah, that's smart

[Anonymous Coward]

And when his friends, family and legitimate businesses called, they would label him as disconnected.
SMRT.

I know of one person who put the dial tone for a disconnected phone number on his answering machine (pretty much a telezapper). So when the computers called his house, and the answering machine picked up, that tone would sound, and the computer would label him as a disconnected phone number.

Is this really going to work?

[agupta_25]

Of late, I have seen a sharp increase in the telemarketing calls I get ... mostly in the evenings, and guess what, most of them originate in India.

Will this thing really work or will it just force telemarkets to relocate their operations abroad?

Re:Is this really going to work?

[Broodje]

How do you know the calls came from India? I have no way of knowing if the call is from Texas, or India. Besides, wouldn't long distance calls suck from india just to try and mebbe sell you a rinky-dinky-$20 knick knack? I wanna know how you know the calls are from India :)

Re:Is this really going to work?

[agupta_25]

I know because I am Indian and the people on the other end talk to me in my own language, Hindi. Some have even admitted that they were located in India. The call center business is a growing market in India and the companies can afford it because they have a very cheap, English speaking, labor force and hence can afford to pay the higher long distance charges.

I used to hate telemarketers.. but now I lovethem

[hoggoth]

I used to hate getting telemarketing calls. I bought a house recently so I got tons and tons of them.

Just recently however, I picked up the phone, heard the tell-tale delay before the poor-underpaid-hates-her-job-but-has-no-choice-but -to-annoy-people-all-day slob started her script. I was in a weird mood so instead of hanging up I decided to try and sell her a Chinchilla fur coat. Of course I don't HAVE any Chinchilla fur coats, but I still had a load of fun describing how you raise Chinchillas and make coats from their fur. I went on and on about how nice the telemarketer would look in one of my Chinchilla furs, and would she like to purchase one or at least receive my special promotional offers?

At first of course she knew/thought I was kidding. But I kept it up and wouldn't let her get a word in edgewise. I kept her on for 5 minutes before she gave up and thanked me and said goodbye.

Since then this has been my S.O.P.
I've made telemarkets angry, made then laugh out loud, confused some, but always had a good time instead of getting angry myself.
I've attempted to sell Chinchilla furs, luxury coffins, you name it.
One telemarketer had the wrong name so I got into a lengthy discussion about whether or not Jose is pronounced "Jo-Say" or "Josie" and stubbornly denied that "Ho-Say" is possible.

Try it!

Next on my hit list:
Every email spam is eventually tied to a real company selling a real product. I may not be able to automatically filter them all, but I sure can leave my autodialer hitting their 800 number all day while I am out!
Ooops!

Is telemarketing effective anymore?

[Phoenix]

Is it really?

Granted now to sell your product you can now call thousands of people in the country and you can send millions of spam to the world at large. Granted that this is very efficient as one person can send off several thousands of E-Mails with a single click or can make hundreds of calls in a day's time thanks to the new computerized dialer systems.

But is it really worth it to the company? Or is it efficiency at the cost of bad consumer feeling?

I'm betting on the latter.

Take X-10.com and thier products. When I forst heard of them and their home automation equipment I was interested. When I learned that it could work under Linux I was thinking of the major geek factor there. I had an old touch screen pentium wall mount case that I could have made the heart of the system in nothing flat. I was really seriously considering doing my house up into my own little nerdvana.

Then the spam came.

All I ever got was pop-ups everywhere I went and the only way to get rid of them was to go to their site and beg to be left alone for 30 days...one lousy month. And the quality of the ads were starting to get offensive. Scantily clad women in ads that implied (if not flat out said) "Use this camera to spy on people".

Not "Use this camera for security" or "This product will let you monitor yout infant child from anywhere in the house" or even "Use our products to make toast in the kitchen with a command from the bathroom". No, it was and still is the semi-nekkid women and the implication that you too can become a high tech peeping tom.

After a steady barage of that message I decided to spend my money on getting a home theatre system instead. They cost themselves a customer and perhaps more than just I with all the others whom I've talked to who feel the same way.

Telemarketers are the same way. I don't want to have to be reminded that I'm going to die in 50 years by some guy from a funeral parlor. I don't want to be bothered during dinner by my long distance carrier asking if I want to switch to them (do they NOT check to make sure that I'm not already a customer first?)

Something like this would be a godsend enabling me to be able to spend time with my family and friends in peace. It'd be an ever greater godsend if they could get rid of those stupid "International Drivers License" spams I get 100 times a day as well.

Phoenix

Surveys excluded they say?

[saikou]

Rrrrrring!
"Good morning Ma'm, we are calling today to conduct a survey about consumer debt.
What APRs do you have on your credit card?
Do you know that YYY Inc offers easy way to get rid of the debt? On the scale from 1 to 10, how interested are you in getting low APR? *click*"
Rrrrrring!
"Good morning Ma'm, we are calling to conduct a survey about consumer awareness of SuperCleaningShmining line of products *click*"
Rrrrrring! ... :)

When can we see...

[cmburns69]

It goes without saying that most of the numbers on the list will be existing, connected numbers. When can we see somebody sell this list to an out of country company, who will the call every number on the list?

An online Starcraft RPG? Only at

Questions for you

[iamacat]

1. Whatever they get paid is more than what I make for answering their call. Why should I provide a better service (quality of the call) for less price?

2. Considering likely adult content in the replies, aren't their any rules about hiring minors? I wouldn't want to catch my hypothetical 14-year-old doing this kind of unnatural things with the phone, product being marketed and parts of his or her body.

3. Those 14-year-olds are trying to save up for a car by doing an unethical job - pushing something to people who most probably don't need the product or service. And sometimes even victimizing the callees - like offering credit cards to people already in debt. Wouldn't want one of them to make it big and do the same thing to company's shareholders. I think a good tongue lashing and guidence towards straight and narrow is very much in order. See, you might have stayed on the job longer than a few weeks if you didn't get "nice" replies to your calls. 4. What "10000 callers"? I don't think any of them really called that guy. Didn't you mean to say "10000 victims"? Actually, I don't care that much about junk calls. I just hang up as soon as they start blabering and they seem to get the message. I am only getting a couple per month now. It's for email that I want to originators to take a Hormel product backwards through their digestive systems.

Re:Questions for you

[qoncept]

1. Thats up to you, I suppose. I know I feel better after having a pleasant conversation with someone rather than trying to make them angry.

2. Not really. There is potential for "adult contenct" coming out of the mouths of people anywhere. Likewise, every time I've seen a job dealing with people, when they begin to get offensive they're instructed to hand it off to your supervisor and not deal with them -- probably more because they think they're less likely to handle is properly, but that's beside the point..

3. I hate telemarketers as much as anyone. I don't agree that offering credit cards is victimizing people any more than a telemarketer selling hamburgers to an obese man. Whether you think they should be calling you whenever they do is a different issue, and while you can say what you want to them, I can only advise you to save your breath. They aren't going to hear it.

4. I meant 10000 callers. Ever seen one of the call centers? I worked at a place called APAC which had 4 call centers in my home town that at any time had about 200 people making calls, and I know they were bigger in at least a half dozen other cities.

Like I said, I hate telemarketers as much as anyone. But doing anything other than saying "please take me off your calling list" only shows ignorance. I made a page back in the day that had a whole lot more about laws for telemarketers at ... well, I can't seem to find it. I know it was on here, if you can find it.

Re:Questions for you

[GigsVT]

victimizing the callees - like offering credit cards to people already in debt.

Yeah, I'm glad McDonald's has that "Over 300 pounds? No Service!" Rule.

Danish telemarketer laws

[Simon Lyngshede]

In Denmark the only thing telemarketers is allowed to sell is newspapers. Trying to sell anything else is illegal. You can also require telemarketers to add you to their "Do-No-Call" list.

Instead of creating a "Do-Not-Call Registry" I would suggest the US to make a law to prohibit sells people to contact you unless you say otherwise, just like in Denmark (as I said newspapers is the only exception). And yes that actually does make spam illegal.

question for Jacer

[kippy]

Is there some documentation on this fine? Does the caller have to hang up without giving the URL or 800 number or does the call simply have to end without that information (ie: I hang up).

$500 is a lot of food.

Thanks!

Re:question for Jacer

[Jacer]

If you hang up, or they think you do, (hang up on another phone, and keep yours muted) and they hang up without giving the number, they can be fined. you do have to get information on who they are calling on behalf of, it'd be pointless to call unless you know who to narc on right?

The Disney senator?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is he a Disney senator because of his resemblance to Goofy? I always thought he was more of a Warner Brothers senator, or even a Fox senator. The man is a like a cross between Foghorn Leghorn and Cotton Hill from "King of the Hill"

Remember his quote: "What's this ah heah about Beevo and Buffcoat?".

This bill is a serious red herring

[bashibazouk]

Charities, surveys, calls on behalf of politicians, phone companies and any business you've done business with are exempt.

Which pretty much covers all the telemarketing calls I get.

Denmark version? No good

[Anonymous Coward]

"In Denmark the only thing telemarketers is allowed to sell is newspapers."

How long has this been in place? It would be easy to get around. If I wanted to sell you long distance service, I'd call you to sell you an amazing newspaper on telephone usage. Pay for a subscription, and you get free long distance service (and the newspaper turns out to be that tiny junk flyer in the bill). Can do this with just about anything.

Re:Denmark version? No good

[Simon Lyngshede]

I don't remember when this was introduced, but more then 15 years ago. Regarding your loop hole, companies like that don't live long and I never hear of anyone trying. Oh and a small flyer is not a newspaper, we talk about real newspaper, magazines are not allowed to be sold in this way.

Automated calls?!?

[jlk_71]

This is great that the National DNC List has been approved, but I have a question that I have yet to find an answer to.

#1. As everyone knows, not all telemarketers use live people. There are a number of people out ther using automated systems to do their calling. How do you get these people fined if they continue to call? Would you '*69' the number and turn it into the FTC? I think that this and other valid questions need to be addressed.

Regards,

jlk

Charities, Surveys and Politicians exempt

[Anonymous Coward]

I can already see the loopholes:

"Hello sir, I'm from the 'Windows to a better future' group. Did you know that our windows not only save on heating bills, but also a portion of proceeds goes to charity" (portion being 1c per gazillion dollars).

"Hello sir, we're doing a survey to see if you know how much a First Telemarketers Bank home loan can save you a month".

"Madam, I'm from the National Credit Card Party. We already own congress, now you can support us too".

Ah, loopholes, they're what makes the law go round.

"Surveys"

[jeremyhu]

Charities, surveys and calls on behalf of politicians would be exempt.

What is going to happen:

Telemarketer: Good evening sir, would you care to take a quick survey? (no pause for answer) How many times are you asking yourself, "Why do I pay so much for long distance?"? (no pause for answer) Have you ever considered switching your long distance provider to Megacorp? Did you know that Megacorp offers the lowest rates possible? Did you know that I could sign you up after we complete this survey? Well sir, thank you for taking this survey. Is there anything else I can help you with?

Re:"Surveys"

[irving47]

Charities could be solved by mandating that a minimum of 60% of all donated money be given to the charity that is represented. I finally remembered to ask how much was being given to (insert charity here) the last time I got a call. 15%

Re:"Surveys"

[Anonymous Coward]

Illegal, the survey company mustn't try to sell you anything or they lose their exemption. That's basically enough to put them out of business (if the language used is copied from similar laws elsewhere)

Similarly a company that briefly bothered me was pretending that it needed to inform people without a mobile phone that they'd "won one" and just needed to sign up for yada yada yada.... That didn't go down well either.

Yes, there will always be scumbags looking for loopholes, but courts of law are always inclined to read the law in such a way as to give scumbags a hard time. That's how we got consumer protection (quack medicine, London, 19th century) and the sadly neglected first sale doctrine (book licenses, Britain again I think)

U.S. National Do-Not-Spam Registry On the Way?

[Castaa]

Could a U.S. National Do-Not-Spam E-mail Registry be on the way soon after this?

One would hope it would be since the Telemarketer lobby has to be much more powerful (read: rich and more organized) than the spam E-mail marketing lobby.

For the love of Pete let's hope so! Spam for me over the last 3 months has probably doubled in volume.

Zoobooks and their ilk

[hndrcks]

Why buy kid's books from shmucks like zoobooks when there are plenty of quality, local bookstores with Internet presence - and acceptable privacy policies - throughout the US that would love to help you?

It's like spam - it quits working when no one buys.

Re:Zoobooks and their ilk

[avi33]

I agree, but fwiw, it's a magazine subscription...and it was a gift.

Their online privacy policy goes out of its way to prove they respect kids' privacy online, but apparently the name and address on the label is up for grabs.

Re:Zoobooks and their ilk

[Sylver Dragon]

You might want to do a bit of research, but from what I recall there are some really stringent laws in the US about how a company must handle information about minors. If a company has sold or given out information on one of your kids, you may be able to nail them to a wall.

Does this mean

[briancnorton]

Does this mean that I have to stop collecting $300 per call fees from those companies that I have told not to call me. Damn, I figured that I could retire in style off that money.

not a good thing for everybody

[kfx]

This may already be posted above, but since I don't have time to read through I'll go ahead and post it anyhow:

I've heard for some time while they've been drumming up support for this bill that there's one big downside to it. As the article says, the bill permits non-profit calls, but what it doesn't say is that this bill will preempt any state laws that are more restrictive. So, for example, people in Indiana (which already has a very good do-not-call-list law) will get MORE calls under this bill since there is a wader range of calls permitted even when you are on the list.

Buy an answering machine

[davebarnes]

We bought an answering machine 5 years ago. We told all our friends that we do NOT pick up the phone until we her their voice. Everyone understands the rules (even my 80 year old parents).
Every few days we clean out the "blank" messages on the machine.

Colo no-call seems to be 90% effective

[mnemotronic]

Since I entered my info into the real Colorado no-call list (not the bogus no-call list at Bighorn), the amount of tele-spam I've received has greatly diminished. I used to count on one call every evening. For some reason, I'd get 2 or 3 on Thursdays (anyone know why???). I now get less than 2 a month.

The problem with the Colorado list is that it allows for these swine to call me if:

• They have an "established business relationship" with me.
  This can mean we've done business, or they have sent me information.
• They are providing "information", and not attempting to sell me something.
  They're spamming me with product info and asking "would you like to speak to a sales representative?", at which point we have a "relationship", which opens the flood-gates.
• They are a charitable organization.
  The tele-marketers haven't figured it out yet, but all they need to do is start an NFP (not for profit) strictly for the purposes of telling me about the for-profit company's products.
• They are a political organization.
  "We represent the 'AT&T is cheaper' party and would urge you to vote for our candidate of choice by signing up for AT&T long distance...."

Cell phones help ...

[dimension6]

I have been using my cell phone as my only phone for at least two years now, and I haven't received a single telemarketer call. I am fairly protective of my number, but I don't hoard it from the entire world as many of us do. One thing that may help is the fact that my cell phone has the (917) area code, which is New York's separate area code for mobile phones. This allows people to instantly indentify the number as mobile without having to check databases. What are the specific laws regarding mobile telemarketer calls? I tried to find detailed information, but have not yet seen it here.

"Do-Call Registry"

[gylz]

Wouldn`t the opposite, ie. a "Do-Call" list be more effective? Just make it illegal to make telemarketing calls unless the person is subscribed to the list.

Re:"Do-Call Registry"

[berniecase]

From a consumer standpoint, it'd make perfect sense, but telemarketers could claim it's unconstitutional - it would stifle free speech, and it wouldn't allow for interstate commerce.

LordNimon is right... MOD GRANDPARENT DOWN.

[dpbsmith]

You're right.

(It HADN'T BEEN expected to pass the Senate but apparently they worked out a deal yesterday).

More control to Governemnt

[Anonymous Coward]

Do we want there to be a database of us who do not want to be called? I would rather tell the people to bugger off from time to time to having my information in the hands of Government Inc.

charities and political group loophole to DNC

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm on a do not call list in California, and it has pretty much stopped all telemarketing calls ...

EXCEPT businesses which have an ongoing relationship are still allowed to pester their clients. This includes charities and political groups.

So... now because I gave some money to calpirg long ago, they call about every other week to tell me their whine about this or that and ask how much more I'd like to give them.

it's sad they use their donations to pay salaries and hire telemarketers to drive their contributors away. I've gotten to the point that I don't even want to hear from them.

My personal study on telemarketing.

[facelessnumber]

I get NO telemarketing calls EVER. You too can live like I do - Here's how...

Why They Call You:
You have (or they think you have) money. You bought something from one of their brethren before, or off the television, you bought a house, a car, got a bank loan of any type, or you signed up for a credit card. I did each of these things at least once in the span of six months. I was spammed relentlessly. I got about six to ten calls a day, no joke. But There Is A Way To Fix This.

Why They Don't Call:
You don't have (or they think you don't have) money. Bad Things happened to me that I won't go into here, but suffice it to say, my credit became horrendous. This was the beginning of my salvation from telemarketing. Rack up some debt on those cards, get your house foreclosed, cars reposessed, default on your loan(s), give back the goddamn Rainbow Vacuum Cleaner. Soon the telemarketers stop. They really do. They have no interest in you, and they are replaced entirely by pissed-off creditors.

There's one last step, the spider swallowed to catch the proverbial fly - You've liberated yourself from most of your other bills already, why not stop paying the phone bill too? The result is blissful silence, and with all of the money you've saved you can get a (prepaid of course) cell phone and start back over. Your credit score prevents you from making any of those foolish mistakes again, and telemarketers shun you like the plague.

The feds should butt out ot this.

[Anonymous Coward]

> If you just interrupt the telemarketer with "Take
> me off your list", it'll take a week of calls...
> MAYBE two, and it'll ALL STOP.

Not here. I haven't got a single telemarketer's
call except those morons with illegal schemes since
the law came into effect.
I fail to see why the states meddle into this.
Many states are dealing with it in a better way.
In Michigan you could make a fortune with
telemarkers who don't follow the law. Now with thos
stupid fed this money would not go to the consumers
but to the federal.

I wonder if you could put Pat Robertson and the
republican party in the list so we don't get any
more of those obnoxious calls during the primaries.

New House == Telemarketing Nightmare

[Fermata]

If you've ever purchased a home, you've probably experienced an extreme deluge of telemarketing. New homeowner lists are generated and sent out to what must be every home-related business on the planet: pest control, security systems, lawn care, water treatment, housecleaning, long distance, insurance, etc.

About a week after I moved into my new house, the barrage started. At its peak, the calls would start at around 7:30am and continue until about 8:00pm. I think the one day record was about 30 calls.

It's tapered off now, but there is still a fairly steady stream of calls. In fact, while writing this post I received two telemarketing calls. The first was just a dead line (Hello? ... Hello? ... Hello? ... click) and the second cutoff before I had a chance to tell the guy to put me on the DNC list.

This may not constitute harassment on the part of any individual company (except for the ones that continue to call after I told them not to), but surely it's a conspiracy to commit harassment by the industry itself. Please make it stop!!!!

Regarding the legislation, I don't want to get any calls from surveys, charities, or politicians either. In my opinion, the legislation doesn't go far enough.

Re:Is this the real deal? FTC+FCC=dynamic duo

[Sethb]

I really don't understand the "Loss of Jobs" argument. There's no clause somewhere in the Constitution that reads:

"Because you've made money selling a widget/service in the past, you are guaranteed the unconditional right to continue doing so."

Yet, somehow, many Americans think that continued profitability is a sacrosanct right somehow owed to them by the government.

Whistling ... Re:Too bad

[Sam Nitzberg]

Another good use for my Captain Crunch whistle...

Tribune call

[edstromp]

"Hello this is Dave from your local Tribune, and I..."

"Dave? How have you been! I haven't heard from you in a long time!"

"uhh, I'm not sure..."

"Oh stop kidding around Dave. How are the kids? And your wife?"

"um. I think your thinking of someone else"

"Come on Dave. Don't you remember me? It's me Ken, we've know eachother since school!"

"um. I think your thinking of someone else"

"No, no, no. You're Dave, right? You work at the Tribune, right?"

"Yea, but I don't have any kids. I'm not married."

"Really. Weird. ... Well, do you know Dave?"

"No."

"Well, if you ever run into him, tell him Ken says 'Hi'"

My friend did this once. I heard his end, and he had me fooled. I couldn't believe Dave didn't know him!

Proper Government Function

[Steve B]

Enforcing private property rights (to paraphrase Reagan, "I am paying for this telephone!") is one of the proper functions of government. By your reasoning, anyone who calls the cops instead of turning vigilante is "penalizing the taxpayer".

(Of course, this argument doesn't apply if you're an anarchist, in which case just say so and we can agree to disagree.)

Re:Proper Government Function

[ratamacue]

We already have laws to enforce property rights! It's not my fault that our legal system is corrupt, inefficient, and ridiculously expensive. What I am against, for the last time, is an expansion of government that I do not want or need, yet I am forced to support anyway.

Re:Proper Government Function

[Steve B]

We already have laws to enforce property rights!

And now we're about to close a loophole in them.

DMA do-not-call registry

[Animats]

The DMA has a do-not-call registry. I'm in it, and it works quite well, unlike their do-not-spam registry, which is useless.

If you rerally want to get rid of telemarketers...

[Tweezer]

The root cause of people getting a ton of telemarketers calling them is the same reason they get a ton of junk mail in their mailbox. Here are a couple of easy steps to fix most junk mail and telemarketing.

Step 1. surf on over to The Direct Marketing Association and sign up for the mail preference service and the telephone preference service. I realize they don't have an online signup yet, so you'll have to print out the forms and send them dead trees, but this does help a bunch.

Step 2. You may not realize or remember, but one a year every creditor you do business with sends a notice out detailing how they share (sell) information to selected (anyone willing to pay) parties. This same notice also details how to stop them from sharing this information. Most companies will let you do this over the phone if you just call the customer service line, but some may require you to mail the form in. Make sure you tell them you don't want you information shared with anyone. Often they will try to get you to let them share your information with other companies in their organization. Do not let them do this. Be sure you go through this procedure for every account you have not just credit cards. You can't forget mortgages auto loans etc. I found this made the most differance, since most marketers want to market to people that can afford to purchase their product even if they have to use credit to do so.

Tweezer

Reminds me of the simpsons episode...

[mlrtime]

Yes I'm interested in long distance savings.... Very Interedted!

Well, actuall.. was "Too bad"

[AceyMan]

Actually, IIRC, the Telezapper first plays the tri-tone that you get when you call a disconnected line (booo-dee-doop). Most autodialers 'know' not to add dead lines to their database, so over time, you get de-listed with the tele-spammers.

You can simulate this effect yourself for free by recording the tone ahead of your regular phone message. Google for sit.wav and you'll find a few live links that will let you d/l the tone. (SIT means status information tone, or some-such).

--AceyMan

No-call

[Anonymous Coward]

We've had a no call list here in missouri for a while. Its quite effective. Just thought I'd throw this in.

Crock of Shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Who gets the penalty money? The person that gets called? I'll bet not.

Why are "Charities, surveys and calls on behalf of politicians" exempted? I don't want their calls either.

How long until...?

[shoptroll]

So how long until the "Do-Not-Spam" list appears?

Re:How long until...?

[Cid Highwind]

I don't know, but within 5 minutes of it's publication, it will be the hottest list of addresses to spam.

WHAT?

[Ender Ryan]

I get 2 or 3 telemarketing calls PER HOUR!

That's a _slight_ exaggeration. I get between 2 and 10 telemarketing calls per day. This is not an exaggeration, it's a conservative estimate.

For a couple weeks MCI (I think it was MCI, couldn't have been AT&T), was calling 3 - 5 times per day.

My local PD calls me every month asking an "annual" donation.

I want 2 DNC lists. 1 for companies, and 1 for charities. And the former should apply to companies that I already have a relationship if I want.

Whooo! Hoooo!

[Anonymous Coward]

Gonna buy me a big gun and do some telemarketer hunting! Gonna try to bag the limit, and gut and skin 'em on the spot.

Anyone interested in a similar service in the UK:

[floydigus]

Visit The Telephone Preference Service.

This is a FREE (as in beer) service provided by the Direct Marketing Association. Once you sign up, it is actually illegal for telesales marketroids to phone you up!

While you're at it, you can sign up for the Mailing Preference Service (this one saves trees as well as your patience), the Faxing Preference Service and the Emailing Preference Service.

Bassackwards

[xsus]

Why should we have to unsubscribe. Why don't they make these assholes work from a list of people who want to be harassed at home!

NICE FUCKING TROLL YOU PRICK

[Anonymous Coward]

Now King George(you know that whiny good for nothing spoiled brat of a president/king we have), is taking away our rights hand over fist.

This legislation just tells the telemarketers that since they couldn't regulate themselves, the feds will do it, and they will be fined BIGTIME if they dont.

It's about time. Week upon week i tell these slimeballs to take me off their list, and i keep getting calls..often from the same company! THAT IS HARRASSMENT! If it were an individual i'd have had a restraining order against them long ago.

Since I can't shoot them (unless i am the feds and they are "suspected" terriorists), this is about the best we can do.

FUCKING SICK OF IT

Just do this...

[Ibby]

When a telemarketer calls you, tell them the truth. "Yes, I'd love to hear your sales pitch, however my time is rather valuable. I'll listen to your pitch for a fee of $25 for the first minute, and $15 for every minute thereafter. Credit card number please?"
I've used this on several occassions. It's quite gratifying to hear the telemarketers stammer in confusion for a change...

Another festive trend in telemarketing....

[woobieman29]

Is those creepy freaks that leave you a voicemail message trying to make it sound as if they are someone you're supposed to know. I get ~4 telemarketing calls a day, and some of the newer ones leave a message along the lines of "Hey guys how are you doing? We really need to get togther and have dinner or something soon! The reason I'm calling is because we just signed up for this amazing timeshare and wanted to let you in on it!" etc etc....

The first time I got one of these I admit I was a bit confused trying to figure out which of our friends was leaving this message - until they got to the timeshare part of course. Damn vermin telemarketers....

On another point, I don't understand how there are escape clauses for politicos and charities. Perhaps this should be up to the consumer as to whether or not they want to receive these calls? Maybe there can be an option when you sign up for the DNC list to block these calls too? I would certainly at least want to block the politicians.

Oh well, maybe that'll be in V2.0

Telemarketing from India?

[swb]

There's tons of stories about call centers being set up in India to handle customer service or technical support issues. Some of the focus of the articles is the training to "sound American" (dialects, lounges with American cable TV programming, etc) so people don't think their calls are being routed to Bangalore.

When will this be used for telemarketing? It sounds perfect, a large workforce that will work for 10% of even an American telemarketer's wage, trained to "sound American", and call centers that are outside the reach of the American government..

Too bad its dead...

[sik puppy]

Certain senatorial scum have most likely killed the bill this year. With some little rider attached to the budget, there will be no funds for setting up the national don't call list. One of the responsible vermin is a republican senator from Louisiana. (sorry I don't have the time to find the links to the story again, but it was by AP yesterday)

always nice to know our senators are busy pocketing bribes from the DMA vermin.

Anonymous call rejection

[jhines0042]

Verizon has a nice little feature called Anonymous Call Rejection.

If someone wants to call me they can have their caller ID on and I'll answer if I choose. If they have it blocked then a program answers asking them to record their name. If they record their name then and only then will my phone ring.

If I choose to answer this call, labeled as being from Verizon's special number for such things, then the first thing I hear is the recorded name and I can choose to accept or reject the call.

Not ONCE have I actually gotten a ring through because someone recorded their name. Since I put this feature on my phone (at a modest rate of $5 per month) I have gotten zero telemarketers leaving messages on my phone and the only calls that I get that are not from friends are from companies that have a legitimate reason to contact me.

I've never been happier.

Before I put this on my phone line I was getting dozens of answering machine messages a day of either nothing or beeps.

Re:Anonymous call rejection

[DirkDaring]

I have the same service. Well worth the $5. We get maybe 1 call a month that gets through because they actually post their listed phone number on callerID.

many states already have this- for example, NY

[call -151]

If you live in the state of New York, there is already a statewide "Do not call" registry and you can sign up at the webpage at this link. It definitely reduced unsolicited calls for us dramatically.

Don't want telemarketers?

[jasonvowell]

Keep your phone number unlisted and never ever submit your telephone number to any comany that could just as well communicate with you via US Mail.

National Do-Not-Call List

[avatar4d]

You guys are as asinine as the government. There are a lot of things that will be affected not just your convienience. Maybe you should try and think about the whole picture. You and your family will be affected because it will affect the economy. About 40% of the income that consumer companies get comes from telemarketing. Don't you think that will have an impact on the economy? What about all the jobs that will be cut with a National Do-Not-Call List? There are over 13,000 jobs all over the world in just 1, count it 1, telemarketing firm that some friends of mine work in.(www.dialamerica.com) And they make pretty good money which allows them to pay their way through college. I wish people would not just think about themselves all the time. I mean you can still sue the company if you ask them to take you off their list and they don't. And last time I checked it was for up to $10,000 or $20,000. It's just that you have to tell them when the call. They are just people trying to make a living and you know what if you are nice to them they will probably take your name off the list, but after listening to 100 people just bitching at them you are most likely not going to get taken off if you are a rude asshole, it gets old and it is a very stressful job. Think about how you would feel. I bet you are the same person that goes into a store yelling at the top of your lungs at the customer service desk to get a refund or something for being over charged instead of acting like an adult and talking in a calm, respectful, and mature manner. Oh well, there is a lot of ignorance in the world and this does not surprise me...just more selfishness.

Re:National Do-Not-Call List

[kasek]

I am a telemarketer, and just before this matter was going to vote, we had a major push, calling all the representatives from our state, urging them to vote against this bill. Not because we are against a do not call list, but because the other terms of the bill are ridiculous. The "abandoned call" rates the bill pushes for are impossible to achieve given the current technology, and the fines are ridiculous.

Again, i stress we are not against the actual DNC list, because it will make our jobs that much easier. We dont have to waste time and money calling people who dont want to be called, and we also dont have to deal with the ignorant people who curse, insult and degrade us with their second grade intellect.

And if you think you will see a dime of the money from these fines, you are wrong. The money goes to the government, to help fund the program. You do not collect 10k or whatever, the government does.

As it stands now, we maintain our own internal do not call lists, and we match our files against the individual states and the DMA's do not call list quarterly.

Also if you pay attention to this type of legislation, you'll notice that there is one major hole...political calls are almost always exempt from any telemarketing laws. It goes to show that the politicians want us to do as they say, not as they do. For example, in commercial work, we can call between 8am-9pm, and generally make only 2 requests (unless it is a no 2nd request state). However, our political division can call any time of day they please, and they can pitch you continuously. Now, our political division follows the same standards the company set for the commercial division, but the lack of regulation in the political realm of calling is there.

anyhoo, just one rant among many from a happily employed telemarketer.

Re:National Do-Not-Call List

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a telemarketer
Hello scum.
The "abandoned call" rates the bill pushes for are impossible to achieve given the current technology, and the fines are ridiculous.
You break my heart. And so close to Valentine's Day too.
we also dont have to deal with the ignorant people who curse, insult and degrade us with their second grade intellect.
Take the hint.
And if you think you will see a dime of the money from these fines, you are wrong. The money goes to the government, to help fund the program.
I figure it lowers my taxes a bit, but the main benefit is not hearing from you.
anyhoo, just one rant among many from a happily employed telemarketer.
And dear Chuck (kjeldor@kjeldor.net), your home number was what again?

Re:National Do-Not-Call List

[kasek]

Im sure you mean scum in the nicest way. But seriously, this is the type of immaturity we deal with on a daily basis. People who hide behind their phones, ridiculing and belittling us for the work we do. Its nothing I am ashamed of, its a job. It pays the bills, it pays for school, it puts the food on the table. In this downward spiraling economy, I am happy to have a job in a company that is constantly growing and expanding. While other companies slash jobs, we are hiring as quickly as possible. If telemarketing didnt wasnt successful, we wouldnt have these jobs. Rant and rave all you want, but fact of the matter is, enough people respond to our calls for us to remain profitable and employed.

And as you pointed out AC, my email addres is kjeldor@kjeldor.net. That is my domain, if you really want my home phone, go ahead and do a whois on the domain. I look forward to hearing from you, i am sure you have loads of good things to say. :I am a telemarketer :Hello scum. :The "abandoned call" rates the bill pushes for are impossible to achieve given the current technology, and the fines are ridiculous. :You break my heart. And so close to Valentine's Day too. :we also dont have to deal with the ignorant people who curse, insult and degrade us with their second grade intellect. :Take the hint. :And if you think you will see a dime of the money from these fines, you are wrong. The money goes to the government, to help fund the program. :I figure it lowers my taxes a bit, but the main benefit is not hearing from you. :anyhoo, just one rant among many from a happily employed telemarketer. :And dear Chuck (kjeldor@kjeldor.net [mailto]), your home number was what again?your home number was what again?

Re:National Do-Not-Call List

[kasek]

(oops darned hitting submit instead of preview)

Im sure you mean scum in the nicest way. But seriously, this is the type of immaturity we deal with on a daily basis. People who hide behind their phones, ridiculing and belittling us for the work we do. Its nothing I am ashamed of, its a job. It pays the bills, it pays for school, it puts the food on the table. In this downward spiraling economy, I am happy to have a job in a company that is constantly growing and expanding. While other companies slash jobs, we are hiring as quickly as possible. If telemarketing didnt wasnt successful, we wouldnt have these jobs. Rant and rave all you want, but fact of the matter is, enough people respond to our calls for us to remain profitable and employed.

And as you pointed out AC, my email addres is kjeldor@kjeldor.net. That is my domain, if you really want my home phone, go ahead and do a whois on the domain. I look forward to hearing from you, i am sure you have loads of good things to say.

:I am a telemarketer
:Hello scum.
:The "abandoned call" rates the bill pushes for are impossible to achieve given the current technology, and the fines are ridiculous.
:You break my heart. And so close to Valentine's Day too.
:we also dont have to deal with the ignorant people who curse, insult and degrade us with their second grade intellect.
:Take the hint.
:And if you think you will see a dime of the money from these fines, you are wrong. The money goes to the government, to help fund the program.
:I figure it lowers my taxes a bit, but the main benefit is not hearing from you.
:anyhoo, just one rant among many from a happily employed telemarketer.
:And dear Chuck (kjeldor@kjeldor.net [mailto]), your home

SPAM fighting tool?

[kireK]

Since SPAM is unsollicated communication, would SPAM fall under this bill? Does anyone have enought money to fund a lawyer to rpove the pint.... after all SPAM comes over your Phone line. Well, atleast if you use DSL/DialUp

... and in poor taste, but not illegal

[royalblue_tom]

It would not be illegal at first. But if you continued to do it, after being told not to, it's called harassment, and is illegal. It would also invalidate the terms and conditions of your agreement with the phone company regarding making nuisance calls.

IANAL.

how about that wrong number person

[edgarde]

That's really is about 25% of my calls. I've had the same number for 5 years, and seem to keep getting the same 2 or 3 people; each time it seems like they've never used telephones before. They "hello" and ask "Who is this?" -- mind you, they're calling me -- and then hang up without identifying themselves, or answering when I ask "What number are you dialing?" [mentally adding "idiot" to that].

I live alone so if they don't know me, it's a wrong number. These days I self-identify as "you've dialed the wrong number" [idiot].

On-line subscription to DNC list

[Edax Rarem]

http://www.dmaconsumers.org/cgi/offtelephonedave#o ptoutform

$5 fee for on-line subscription, but I think it to be worth it.

You may have to lose the space betweent the o and the p.

Oh, man...

[salesgeek]

When this thing gets declared unconstitutional or some offshore company does a FOIA for the list and starts calling it, my phone will never stop ringing....

NOT GOOD.

My New Service

[Zordak]

I can't wait to start my new service. It's going to be a helpful organization that will make sure that you get added to the national DNC list, and your state's, if it has one, for a mere $50. I think I'll use e-mail to get the word out.

State Do Not Call List

[JRHelgeson]

I signed up for our State wide Do Not Call list. They stated that when the national DNC list is made available, that all the numbers in the State list will be 'uploaded' to the national list.

Do as I say, not as I do...

[kasek]

Disclaimer: I am a telemarketer.

Everyone is quick to jump on the bandwagon that yay, a national DNC list is great, great the politicians are doing something good, blah blah blah.

If you pay attention to this type of legislation, you'll notice that there is one major hole...political calls are almost always exempt from telemarketing laws. For example, in commercial work, we can call between 8am-9pm, and generally make only 2 requests (unless it is a no 2nd request state), and observer DNC lists / requests.

However, our political division can legally call any time of day, and they can pitch you continuously, and in most cases, call you even if you are on your states DNC list. Granted, our company has higher standards than that, but the lack of regulation is there.

This past election, our company raised millions of dollars to help get republicans re-elected. In fact, i remember being told we were the second largest source of donations for the particular division (senate, house, or president, our division will remain nameless) we were calling for. They realize what a vital avenue telemarketing is, and always make sure they are exempt from the laws they pass.

It just goes to show that the politicians are looking out for themselves first before they are looking out for you.

Re:Do as I say, not as I do...

[Anonymous Coward]

Disclaimer: I am a telemarketer.

You're either incredibly stupid or you got major bajongas getting on here non-anonymously and admitting that.

Dont pay $5 to the DMA

[kasek]

Many people have mentioned going to the DMA and paying five dollars to the DMA to be placed on thier DNC list. Dont waste your money. Telemarketing companies update their lists quarterly, so time is not of the essence, really.

Instead, write to the following address (which i have memorized, having to read it to people every day at work)

Mail Preference Service
Direct Marketing Association
PO Box 9008
Farmingdale, NY 11735-9008

just provide them with the names, addresses, and phone numbers you want on their DNC lists. All for the cost of a stamp.

More on Special Information Tones

[PetiePooo]

If you have some way of synthesizing tones, you can create your own version of the SIT tone. The one I got from the net was of poor quality and didn't have totally accurate frequencies. This site has a description of the tones and durations and what they indicate to the calling party. IMHO, the best combo is

Vacant Circuit: 985.1Hz for 380ms, 1370.6Hz for 274ms, and 1776.7Hz for 380ms

I heard that the Telezapper just sends the first tone, which is enough for the autodialers to recognize it as some sort of telco announcement. You must answer the phone fairly quickly though, because some dialers assume that the tone will come within a couple seconds after dialing is complete. If you take too long, it may already be connected to the call handler that's going to make the sales pitch.

Submit all phone numbers

[joshgs]

If they support a web form to add your number to the list as they say they will, couldn't we just write a script to add ALL phone numbers to the do not call list? Even if they call the number submitted to verify that you want to be on the list, I'm sure most people would agree to it.

Who voted no?

[jburst]

Okay folks, if your rep is one of:

Bishop (UT)
Ryan (OH)
Terry
Flake
Strickland
Paul
Tancredo

They're one of the 7 who voted no on the bill. Better give them a piece of your mind.

source:
http://clerkweb.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=20 03&rollnumber=26

Awsome

[Anonymous Coward]

I love NYS do not call list. I get about 1 call every other month and then bust the idiot callers. It is so much better that any telezapper of stcreener.

You will still be called ! Blame Canada..

[insane8]

Most of the Companies that call you to sell you stuff are from Canada , making them all but immune to US Prosecution. They move location, change ownership and claim to close every 4-6 months making it impossible for the RCMP (Canadian FBI) to charge them. Montreal and Toronto are where most of the call centres are, if you recall being called by a lot of people with French accents, now you know why. The Government List will more likely end up being a call list for small telemarketing firms that don't want to buy lists. It will also probably be a great new scam; I can just imagine telemarkers pretending to call people on the list claiming to sell them annual membership fees for the "Do Not Call List". There will always be ways around silly legislation.

"Take me off your list" WRONG!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

What you want to say is one word: Deceased

If they start another sentance, say: Deceased.

Then hang up.

Some will even appologise.

Almost all will remove the name from their list.

It *is* Illegal

[Poeir]

See this FCC regulation.

1. No person may
   
   1. Initiate any telephone call (other than a call made for emergency purposes or made with the prior express consent of the called party) using an automatic telephone dialing system or an artificial or prerecorded voice,
      
   2. To any emergency telephone line, including any 911 line and any emergency line of a hospital, medical physician or service office, health care facility, poison control center, or fire protection or law enforcement agency;
   3. To the telephone line of any guest room or patient room of a hospital, health care facility, elderly home, or similar establishment; or
   4. To any telephone number assigned to a paging service, cellular telephone service, specialized mobile radio service, or other radio common carrier service, or any service for which the called party is charged for the call;
2. Initiate any telephone call to any residential telephone line using an artificial or prerecorded voice to deliver a message without the prior express consent of the called party, unless the call is initiated for emergency purposes or is exempted by sec. 64.1200(c).
3. Use a telephone facsimile machine, computer, or other device to send an unsolicited advertisement to a telephone facsimile machine.
4. Use an automatic telephone dialing system in such a way that two or more telephone lines of a multi-line business are engaged simultaneously.

Tha horror

[Fuzzums]

what a world. phone spam, sms spam, e-mail spam.
i'd say spam is a violation of my privacy. let's get then a general spammers restraining order ;-)

FINALLY!

[lasmith05]

I hate phone spam almost as much as I hate e-mail spam.

Alabama's DNC list

[Montezuma58]

is a worthless pile of BS.It goes way beyond exempting surveys, charities, and politicians. There are 25 ways a business can ignore the DNC. Effectively there is a way out for about 99.999% of telemarketers. It would have been easier for them to list the type of businesses that have to pay attention to the list. That is if there is one.

Sometimes asking helps

[zapp]

I live in colorado, and I think we have some laws about telemarketting, but I'm not sure if this applies.

I used to get tons of sales calls too, mostly AT&T long distance and a few credit cards. I was getting extremely irriteted, especially at AT&T since they called EVERY day at 8am sharp (I'm usually still asleep), but I asked them one day to put me on their internal no-call list, and haven't received one call since - and it's been months.

Same thing worked with the credit cards - just politely ask to be placed on a no-call list and you never hear from them again.

Missing the point

[iamacat]

McDonald doesn't compile databases of obese people, come to their homes uninvited and offer them double cheeseburgers with bacon. If they did, they would be in trouble, just like credit card companies that selectively market to people who tend to get in debt should be.

I think McDonald should have "over 300 pounds" rule to be a good community member. But offering something to any people who come to your place is very different from specifically targetting ones who are likely to buy your stuff to their detriment.

Screen your own calls w/out legislation

[dartagan]

$50 will get you a product called the Screen Machine. It intercepts every call and informs solicitors to place your name and phone # on their do not call list. It then states that it is now a federal offense to make your phone ring. Non-solicitors are invited to press "5" and they pop right through. If ever a telemarketer pops through get their name & employee # and report them to their supervisor.

But are you there for JESSSUS!?

[Shanoyu]

When the telemarketer asks for you:

Yes, i'm here my son, (increase your tone of voice like a bible belt preacher) but are you here for JESUS?

If the telemarketer does not hang up, he will either say yes, no, or something else. If he says yes,

"Then my son you must GIVE UP your SINFUL WAYS and accept JESUS, the CHRIST ALMIGHTY into your heart! Put down that telephone, put down your tool of Satan, cast yourself AWAY from the moneylenders! Cast yourself INTO the LORD ALMIGHTY, JESUS CHRIST."

If he says no, then begin pretending to exorcise demons from the telemarketer like so: "JESSSUS! This poor soul has been INFECTED by a MINION of the DEVIL! Get out of him! Get out of him! do you feel me son! Are you there, son!"

By this point the person has assuredly hung up.

If he says something else: "Would you be interested in purchasing literature regarding the origin of man, the universe, and god? Do you prefer "Yea, though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death" ? or "Yea, though I walk through the darkest valley?", would you be interested in signing a petition regarding the new standard revised what-cha-ma-call-it gideon enhanced bible six point oh? (continue ad libbing)

Quick Suggestion

[LilGuy]

How about a bill that keeps schools from giving out your info. I've had to hang up on 3 of the bastard telemarketers today alone. Every single day I get at least one call. It's pretty annoying.

So what?

[marleyboy]

It makes almost no difference if the telemarkter is located in Canada.

your sig

[mirko]

I'd like you to study a comparison of both our countries' achievements while not being in War.

You'll for instance find out that illetrism, misery, insecurity and unhappiness are more present in the USA than in France.

BTW, most of your countries genious come from abroad. (mostly Europe)

And if you want to deal with War, well, remember Vietnam, but also look at the situation in which you let Afghanistan, back in the hands of the Talibans.

So, do not even argue about your so-called superiority...

Re:your sig

[N3WBI3]

lol of course you do not want to compare our histories of war???

You lost to the friggen Haitians! Were saved twice from Germany by in no small part the US (btw the second time we saved France we were also fighting a war against Japan). Yes we lost Vietnam (formerly know as French indo-china (with Kampuchea and Laos) who also booted out the French. You lost Quebec to the English, you won the 100 years war but burned alive the woman who led you to victory. Hmm Napoleon won a few but he was Corsican.

The US defeated England in our revolution (I will grant the French were there but we did most of the fighting) and the war of 1812, we defeated Mexico (another nation that kicked the crap out of France), Beat Spain in the late 1800's, helped save you in WW1, then again in WW2 (while fighting at the same time two very powerful nations), we fought to a stalemate soviet plans and Chinese troops in Korea, lost Vietnam because we did not play to win, then won a few minor wars with Panama, and Iraq (again France cant beat Haiti so it relevant), and most recently helped the NA removed the Taliban from Afghanistan (umm Karzai is still president of that nation and the taliban is shrinking more and more every day).

Now on to what you are not trying to hide from is France Socially superior to the US??

Literacy: both France and the US have over 90% literacy
Here . The french are a whopping 2% higher than the us here . When you take into account that nearly 4% of the US population are illegal immigrants (people who want to come to this land of misery as you call it)
here and documented imigrants are around 10% of our population
here we have a much harder task in front of us than the French. There are schools in our cities with kids who speak more than 30 languages doubt France has to deal with that.

Now onto "misery, insecurity and unhappiness are more present in the USA than in France." I would like to see how you quantified that? As it's not something you can measure but Ill give it a try.

Lets start with lenght of life
People in France live one year longer than Americansas a % that is 1.3% longer (that can probably be written off to a large immigrant population who may come from a nation with a poor health care system, but even if not that's statistically insignificant as the US and Germany are tied so they must be miserable too.

Now lets look at standard of living the US GDP per capita is nearly 30% higher in the US, same source as above and also here

The US has a higher quality of life according to UN data here .

We are also a Cleaner Nation here

Now while none of this prooves the US is a more happy, and secure place than the zoo between Germany and Spain it goes allot further than your post. If you care to get into a war of wits (again be careful about being French and in a war) at least come armed next time.

Finally about most of our genius coming from abroad if you speaking to our roots as a nation (being we are 70% of European decent) than I would put it to you that you have no point as they are educated and nurtured in America. If you are referring to the # of foreign students in our universities I would ask you why are they coming here rather than going to France? I would also put it to you that your culture was started when you lost a War to the Romans and had their culture put on you, Western Culture owes more to the Italians and Greeks than the French, English, and Americans put together. There is nothing to argue we are not perfect but we are better in most ways than the French.

Note: I consider an Immigrant who comes to this nation and becomes a citizen to be the most loyal and important kind of American one who made the choice

Re:your sig

[mirko]

I just read the alt.nuke.france newsgroup and your post goes only a little higher than your average compatriots.
However, let's face it :
I am French,
I live in Switzerland
I have a Croatian father (we'll get back to this later, OK ?)

I leaved France, OK, I have my reasons but I won't allow a guy that obviously never lived in France to insult this country and its people.

Now, we have a military record, of course.
If you look a little further, you'll see that the government indeed resigned but the people kept fighting and actively helped the allies to prepair DDay.
It's called "La resistance" and nobody in the World would agree on their cowardness, beside ill-informed rethoricians like you.

Concerning the US Liberators, I'd like to tell you what really happened during the Serbian/Croatian war.
Clinton waited until the end of Knin's Battle to send his Tomcats in order to symbolically bomb some some of the Serbian's last positions.
You (US) actually didn't help that much.
Like you didn't help Afghans by destroying all of their countries infrastructures and leave it to their formers Taliban chieves hands (what ? no status on CNN ?)...

Also, knowing that you smart-bombed the Serbians actually made us (Croatians) sorry for them : because you have deployed so much barbary by poisoning thousands of them to death while they were to resign.

My sources are not the French Press but rather the Croatian Press and they sure wouldnot pardon you to change their freedom fight into this useless pathetic bloodbath.

Now, if the French do not want to fight in Iraq, which I can understand (mirko stands for pacific in Croatian) it is because they considered the million of dead Iraqis that Madeleine Allbright just publicly designated as some "ill side-effect". It is also because such an horrendous attempt at Iraqian people's lives (don't deny it please : you KNOW there will be much more than you can expect) is way over disproportionate regarding the minor threat their leader is.

As you can see, because of our country multi-ethnicity, we are just encouraged to live with our neighbours differences and we accept these as you should with yours.

So, your sig is not only gramatically incorrect but also totally insulting.
Do you actually speak more than just English ? I may not read that much fluent in English but I can at least successfully work in trilingual environment... this is called intercultural ability and few Americans know this. I knew one in my former US/Germany-based company.

Next-to-last point : your NYPost guy, the one who say we don't wash...
I guess he forgot that the poll didn't take the Marseilles Soap into account, hence the relative gap. But of course, if a New Yorker can mention 3 different pop-art trends and 4 Jewish plates, he will have a harder time discussing the World's history and you'd sure need to know for real what's in a French mind before just denying his abilities to defend itself.

So, the fact is simple : I suggest you modify your .sig the following way :
"Les français sont parfois les dindons de singes capitulateurs mais on ne peut généraliser devant un plateau de 300 fromages"

Bye

Re:your sig

[N3WBI3]

Well at least there is substance to this.

I won't allow a guy that obviously never lived in France to insult this country and its people.

Why not millions of french people take shots at Americans having never lived here? My sig was intended as a joke and if you cant take a joke im sorry but thats your problem not mine.

It's called "La resistance" and nobody in the World would agree on their cowardness, beside ill-informed rethoricians like you.

Do not presume to call me ill-informed you know nothing about me, my education or life experience. Now yes the resistance fought as individules, but when the brittish burned our capitol to the ground in 1812 not only did the people but the government kept fighting. The french government left it to the Americans and English to do most fo the fighting and most of the Dying, hell even canada played more of a role than France.

Like you didn't help Afghans by destroying all of their countries infrastructures and leave it to their formers Taliban chieves hands (what ? no status on CNN ?)

now who looks ill informed, If you were an afgan woman would you prefer roads or freedom, because freedom is now something they have. Not to further show how ignorent you sound but guess who is rebuilding those roads?? the US Taxpayer (which I have no problem with as a US taxpayer).

Now, if the French do not want to fight in Iraq, which I can understand (mirko stands for pacific in Croatian) it is because they considered the million of dead Iraqis that Madeleine Allbright just publicly designated as some "ill side-effect".

No the French want out of Iraq becuase they are currently Saddams largest trading partner (built a nuke plant for them which thankfully Isreal blew up). And if france would have the balls to come out and say its not good for thier economy to do this I could at least respect that. The Frenchwill never state their true reasons because it does not give them the moral ground they think they own.

As you can see, because of our country multi-ethnicity, we are just encouraged to live with our neighbours differences and we accept these as you should with yours.

I, and most americans speak at least two languages (English and Spanish), I also happen to speak Japanese (though its been years so im rusty), and some Korean. Why is it the euros call language the be all end all of culture? America is FUll of different cultures, 14% of our currennt population are directly from other nations (not counting their kids). You have never walked around NYC (neighborhoods in which there are no signs in English), Miami, LA, San Antonio, ... have you.

Just a couple of corrections (not to insult you just to inform): The English past tence for Leave, is Left The English possesive or Iraq is Iraqi -Regards

Re:your sig

[mirko]

Why not millions of french people take shots at Americans having never lived here? My sig was intended as a joke and if you cant take a joke im sorry but thats your problem not mine.

I don't speak for the others.
My sister lives in SF where I often go.
I also visited her in Texas.
I have at least 2 points of view of your (nice) country.
It's just that most of the american I worked with in Germany were hardly networking with Europeans...
It's a pity but its a fact.

Strange Elm Street where you may get tatooed/pierced if you don't keep an eye at how much you drink...

you know nothing about me, my education or life experience

you don't know me either, do you ?

now who looks ill informed, If you were an afgan woman would you prefer roads or freedom, because freedom is now something they have. Not to further show how ignorent you sound but guess who is rebuilding those roads?? the US Taxpayer (which I have no problem with as a US taxpayer).

All the European newspapers discuss the Taliban's comeback, I guess the Afghan women had better fly away before next summer as they are already regarded as Burqa wearers.

No the French want out of Iraq because they are currently Saddams largest trading partner

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geo s/ iz.html
import partners :
France 22.5%, Australia 22%, China 5.8%, Russia 5.8% (2000)
(11 billions so they represent a 2B$ market, not a great deal)
export partners :
US 46.2%, Italy 12.2%, France 9.6%, Spain 8.6% (2000)
(16 billions : US would spare 8 billions by seizing their oil)

BTW : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/164552 7.stm
Does the Bush family also have to worry about political blow-back? The younger Bush made his first million 20 years ago with an oil company partly funded by Salem Bin Laden's chief US representative. Young George also received fees as director of a subsidiary of Carlyle Corporation, a little known private company which has, in just a few years of its founding, become one of Americas biggest defence contractors. His father, Bush Senior, is also a paid advisor. And what became embarrassing was the revelation that the Bin Ladens held a stake in Carlyle, sold just after September 11.

not to insult you just to inform

Thanks. :)

Pay for both sides of the call when you dial..

[Ezza]

.. and you won't have problems with telemarketers.
With the current US system (correct me if I'm wrong), you pay when someone CALLS YOU, whether you want the call or not. Personally I don't understand this, but it's a system that's been in place there for ages so will probably never change.
In Australia (and many other countries), the dialer pays for the call, and we get maybe 1 or 2 telemarketing calls a month, and then usually from a charity or market research survey. Our phone number is not even unlisted.
(note, we pay a fixed monthly price for the privelidge of having a phone - fixed or cell - so owning a phone is not "free" if you don't make any calls, but the cost is minimal).

Civics 101

[Stickster]

You do realize, don't you, that this is meaningless until the Senate and the House agree on a version of the whole package, it passes in each house, and the President signs it?

Turn the tables

[_Sharp'r_]

My favorite steps for dealing with telemarketers:

1. Notice caller-id on home phone shows unavailable or unrecognizable.

2. Answer with "Sharper Services Help line, only $150 an hour to answer any question you might have, 1/2 hour minimum." (My legitimate computer consulting company name, substitute yours and your normal phone support pricing.)

3. When they start talking, insist that they must provide a personal or company name before beginning their question.

4. Once that is provided, ask for the credit card number or company billing address before beginning their question.

Most will have hung up by at that point, but some are dumb enough to have provided a company name and address. The 1/2 hour minimum helps. At that point, answer their questions (usually no, I don't want to buy ___.) and then simply turn the bill over to accounting/collections.

If you don't want to go through the above or don't have the company infrastructure to get payment, at least offer to sell them something like having a stick in your yard named after them and insist that they hear about all its benefits before refusing your generous price.

Last Post!

[alpg]

7,140 pounds on the Sun
97 pounds on Mercury or Mars
255 pounds on Earth
232 pounds on Venus or Uranus
43 pounds on the Moon
648 pounds on Jupiter
275 pounds on Saturn
303 pounds on Neptune
13 pounds on Pluto

-- How much Elvis Presley would weigh at various places
in the solar system.

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...