>It seems to me that he has no legal standing. IANAL, but if his supervisor tells >him to give them the passwords, it is not his place to decide who it is 'safe' >to give them to and who is not safe. That is his employers decision.
Umm. Actually, they could simply have just fired him when he had first refused. And they did fire him, after his refusal to yield the passwords in "open air".
He was arrested for refusing to supply the passwords, and of being a *potential* threat, *after* he had been fired.
At which point, of course, they were his "ex-supervisors", outside of any contractual obligation. Even if the passwords are considered as the cities property (which is a very dodgy concept), we are still talking about contract breach, and a small claims court civil issue.
Instead of that he got 7 months in the pen. Deeply, deeply unpleasant.
+ Check out the arrest reports and DA complaint. + Now look at the actual charges. + Ask yourself what the hell a corporate security officer was doing
removing (or copying) hard drives from network administrators, at night. + Note that his colleague, the other network admin, is standing up for him. + Be surprised when you find out *he* proposed security policies, including
dead-drop password safes, but the same management denied him...
In all of his actions, he appears to have acted with impeccable professional and personal integrity at IMMENSE personal cost, (he's losing his house).
His is a principled stand, 7 months in jail on $5M bail for.... *having* a modem!
For what? What "leverage" does he have? Except the moral high ground!
Honestly, would you like to work for these managers? Would you rate them as "exceeding expectations"? Would you trust them with... anything? Like a cities networks!?
I'd be happy to have Mr. Childs as a colleague or an employee.
I wouldn't waste glances on the management of San Fran's. net, since in all actions so far, they have demonstrated nothing except that they are mean hearted, small minded, incompetent (beyond belief! they put the IOS config with cleartext passwords into the PUBLIC DOMAIN!!!!)... bastards.
Yes management can ask him for his passwords. And he can refuse, at the cost of his employment, which he did. And they are right then to fire him, as they did.
But then they asked him again... without contract. And this time he had NO moral or legal obligation to respond.
"Childs is being held on $5 million bail, as the authorities fear he could unleash a wave of attacks on the FiberWAN system Childs built. It controls the city's e-mails, payroll, law enforcement records and other data."
"Could Unleash"
In America, people are being held in preventative custody for actions they could "potentially" perform.
You fire me, effective immediately, I am not telling you shit. Why? Because I no longer have contractual obligations to you. Why? Because you are no longer paying me.
What do people expect ?
You wear the uniform and stay loyal, *until* you are gone. From that moment onwards, there is nothing to bind or hold you. You leave and look ahead to the next one.
That seems to be what he did.
He felt he should no longer have to supply them with ANY information, post employment.
And I think him right.
In an American, Red Blooded Capitalist way.
No Services without Payment.
To suggest otherwise is to create a new sub-class of citizen, with limited rights, who can be arrested for NO LEGAL REASON.
Who can be 'ordered' by a court to fix someone's problems, without compensation or consideration.
Just a Techie.
Consider Childs. Held on what charge? For 5M BAIL? Fuck off!
Of course he should have been asked for the password long before. And documentation. And mentoring of the "PFY" assistant which they seem not to have given him.
But the Management involved here have already shown their complete "fantasy" cost reduction mindset.
How?
Because they had a single guy, was on his OWN, running an entire cities network. And they were too incompetent to create effective controls or to maintain a business relationship with him.
In short, tough shit to the probably politically appointed chumps who treated their own people so badly.
Does anyone else remember the advertising in The Space Merchants, which included exactly this "straight-to-skull" messaging?
The hero ends up being addicted to alkaline enhanced cola, since he once had the misfortune to walk into a street audio billboard which plays the Moke Coke subliminal message.
I feel we move closer to the world of that book every day...
Ahh! Iain M. Banks!! - And the fight underneath the Hoverships, between 2 guys who look the same - And Knife missiles - And the Fat "eater" with the metal teeth...
But I always wanted "Use of Weapons" to be filmed, strangely enough not for the mega scenes, but for the simple house in the garden, seen once as for kids, once as coitus interruptus, and finally the tank, with the command being "Fire!". - "I got you a hat!" - The slaver's tongues. - The boy with the knives fighting Zak on the beach. - The caldera. "Sky?" - "Suspend Trapdoor coverage." - The torch spinning in Zero-G, and if the light ends shining
in his eyes, Zak will open his helmet. - A woman walking through the snowstorm, the dark shape of the
module spaceship following behind her, like a big dog.
Loathe though I am to admit it, MSFP with MS Exchange 2003 SP2 beats BlackBerry bloody.
It works, it costs customer companies less money and there will be a huge range of phones, from the usual suspects and more.
Some phones may burn their batteries out within a day, but no-one considers that on purchase, and that will not slow adaption.
But here is the interesting part: Apparently the new ActiveSync "push" protocol and the Outlook 2003 protocol are simply... WebDAV.
Which theoretically means that MS have opened up their Exchange server to ANY clients that can talk WebDAV.
And since you can just trace messages on the server side, (so long as non-https or you have the private key), reverse engineered Open Source solutions cannot be too very far off.
Anyone care to comment?
Is Windows Mobile media 5.0 the end of the proprietary Exchange regime ??
As for RIM...... they really should have invested more in their tech, rather than in their lawyers...
Or for any spelling mistake. Or for working for a company which does not pay the ruling party, enough. Or for voting for any other party. Or for being different race/creed/sex/sexual-preference. Or for being poor.
"Tough on Bugs - Tough on the causes of bugs!" "You are either with us, or against us!" "Working together to make $COUNTRY strong!"
They're peasant victims are the results of "evil"... but our peasant victims are due to "unfortunate and unavoidable side-effects" ??
Both look like piles of bodies of the vulnerable to me. And you both sound like self-justifying murderous S.O.B.s to me.
Read the info on F.I.S.H. during Fallujah ?? That's Fighting In Somebody's House. Basically shotgun holes in walls and doors, then throw grenades in, then rush on full auto, and afterwards, everyone who is dead was an "insurgent". Or just leave them for 2 weeks to rot in the wreckage, since who gives a fuck, we don't count "their" dead.
Look at the pictures of the dead. Look at the ratio of casualties to captured weapons. Too Many Civilians.
For people who claim that grenading innocents, whether they be men, women or children, sight unseen, bodies uncounted, is just "unavoidable collateral damage", my heart is ashen, and I look upon you in shame, if not in anger.
Seems to me that he played straight ball, by the rules. It is in NO way "threatening" to state that you will report illegal activities, should they not cease immediately. It is in fact a DUTY to do so. Perhaps even to report previous events, even if they are no longer being committed.
It is polite, as Chip did, to first bring things to the attention of the owners/decision makers, since it is possible that they simply did not know. But only polite, since the "deal" is between a citizen and the state.
From their subsequent actions, it is quite clear, that they did know, did not care and sought to hide any evidence and suppress any witnesses.
The other aspects:
gunpoint blanket seizure of any related property, by pumped up police
search warrants signed automatically, without inspection, by overworked, disengaged judiciary
the implicit assumption that ANY individual involved in ANY action with ANY COMPANY is, obviously guilty.
The automatic DEFENSE, without bothering to read or check any of the facts, of the COMPANY, by people who should know better.
All of these seems to be now "normal", and part of a whole climate of contempt for the rights of individuals, and the deification of the rights of companies.
When exactly did it all change? When did it start being normal that the citizen is automatically the enemy ?
So, the state can steal your property, paying whatever it chooses to pay, if anything, in compensation?
With whose money will the State pay ? Let's make a guess, taxpayer's money ?? It is then allowed for the State to GIVE or sell (for how much exactly?) the property to a private business, in return for "higher" predicted tax income.
So, there are rules to ensure that the taxes will be paid? That they must be paid for a set number of years or at least a lump-sum paid in lieu ?? What if the business, who would of course pay tax, goes bankrupt? Would a purchasing business be obliged to cover the "social debt" of the original business, which allowed the theft of the original property ?
But wait a minute, this principle could also work for *people* as well as property, could it not ?
Now what if the state/people/public good would better be served by forcing YOU personally to do something you really don't want to??
Similar, to say, conscription. With say, that shiny, shiny, new Pentagon database?
If all our wars are good, because we are simply the "Good Guys", no matter what. THEN rather than be a poor/worthless/unemployed/ex-criminal (drug crimes, of course) *citizen*, why we could MAKE you join the army !! Send you ANYWHERE.
Do you the world of good! Make a man of you !!
No problem, since its better for the Public Good.
And what about women ??? Ummm. Well we'll find a use for you... all those troops need some comfort...
Again it is for the public good.
Now what is your problem!
Dissent is illegal. Protest is restricted to "Free Speech Zones". Elections are "surprisingly" won, with the help of certain companies electronic voting machines. Or re-districting.
In short: Jesus. Fucking. Christ. On a Pogo Stick.
Am I glad I live NOWHERE near the "Land of the Free".
Given a choice, how many people would go to the trouble of killing the guy and faking the hanging, rather than have to work 80+ hour weeks, losing wife, kids,...
At which point is it worth fighting back?
When you have to work 100 hour weeks, unpaid, forever ? When the work permanently damages your health ?
When your wife must do the same ??
When her boss gets to fuck her too, as part of the "standard" contract ??
At which point do people start saying "too much" ?
Or, is there *any* point, no matter how extreme, at which some people (too often from the U.S.) will actually concede to be "too much", and grudgingly allow the possibility, that maybe, just maybe, some form of worker protection laws are required to be enforced ??
As their fine citizens love reminding us, what happens in America (States, United or not, thereof) is really none of our damn business.
Great! I agree totally. Not our problem.
Death Penalty for Copyright Infringement ? => Fantastic Idea.
Mandatory, per-citizen purchases (taken from wages at source, by government, for a cut) of whatever products any corporation wishes to offer, with corporation being chosen by auction ?? => Super. Bring it on.
Let them deal with it.
We don't live there, are not subject to its laws and really couldn't care less anymore.
Now, WIPO and EU are different stories...... those we can comment on...
Hmm.
Always interesting: so many people accept as normal that although they are being paid salary,
they are being treated as contractors (no work, no pay).
Even more interesting, is when the same people defend their employer's interest, over their own.
Gratifying, is the number of people who spot this for the paradox it is.
The endless question, whenever people are bitching and whining, especially when they are correct.
Why put up with this ?
Majority rule, with respect of rights of minorities. Otherwise known as democracy.
America at the moment is quite bluntly, widely seen as *insane*.
Its judicial system. Its willingness to kill, but not to build. Its constant attempts to "enclose" public domain. Its claims to freedom of speech, but sameness of media, and their blatant bias. Its lack of understanding, compassion, generosity, and will or ambition to improve the too-often lousey lot of the majority of humanity.
Europe is, to be brutaly honestly, smugly as bad.
BUT, we are not changing it.
Until one day, it will be our asses against the wall, and guess what, no-one will be helping *US*, because we found many reasons not to help others.
Last thought? Yes the we includes me, as it includes you.
"Its not how many people you kill that counts,
its how many you set free."
Not the battle, but when the Silent Sleeper "drops" cover and simultaneously transports 10,000 animals, some the size of Ireland, onto the ring, then boots out of there.
The watching ship, dumping its air to speed up drones flying along access tubes to get back on, slamming force fields up where there are humans, and all the time thinking "I can catch it! I can catch it! Unless, unless,... Oh Shit! Its ALL ENGINE"
Classic.
As is the line from the Affront allied Mind, "Cloud of warships", I.e. 100,000 an up.
Slashdot Mirror
For over 10th years I've been using the tagline "agreeing with the Grey Area" ... finally someone else agrees ...
Excellent point.
Alan Cox wants a break, after many, many years of extremely hard work.
He has earned, and deserves, better.
I thank him, salute him and wish him the best with whatever new project
he chooses to spend his time on.
Thank you Alan.
>It seems to me that he has no legal standing. IANAL, but if his supervisor tells >him to give them the passwords, it is not his place to decide who it is 'safe' >to give them to and who is not safe. That is his employers decision.
Umm. Actually, they could simply have just fired him when he had first refused.
And they did fire him, after his refusal to yield the passwords in "open air".
He was arrested for refusing to supply the passwords, and of being a *potential*
threat, *after* he had been fired.
At which point, of course, they were his "ex-supervisors", outside of any
contractual obligation. Even if the passwords are considered as the cities property (which is a very dodgy concept), we are still talking about contract breach, and a small claims court civil issue.
Instead of that he got 7 months in the pen. Deeply, deeply unpleasant.
+ Check out the arrest reports and DA complaint. ...
+ Now look at the actual charges.
+ Ask yourself what the hell a corporate security officer was doing
removing (or copying) hard drives from network administrators, at night.
+ Note that his colleague, the other network admin, is standing up for him.
+ Be surprised when you find out *he* proposed security policies, including
dead-drop password safes, but the same management denied him
In all of his actions, he appears to have acted with impeccable professional and personal integrity at IMMENSE personal cost, (he's losing his house).
His is a principled stand, 7 months in jail on $5M bail for .... *having* a modem!
For what? What "leverage" does he have? Except the moral high ground!
Honestly, would you like to work for these managers? ... anything? Like a cities networks!?
Would you rate them as "exceeding expectations"?
Would you trust them with
I'd be happy to have Mr. Childs as a colleague or an employee.
I wouldn't waste glances on the management of San Fran's. net, since in all ... bastards.
actions so far, they have demonstrated nothing except that they are mean hearted, small minded, incompetent (beyond belief! they put the IOS config with cleartext passwords into the PUBLIC DOMAIN!!!!)
But make up your own mind.
I mentioned earlier that I am starting to think that I would salute Mr Childs.
Well, I just read the DA's complaint, the arrest report and the bail denial.
And now I *definitely* want to shake his hand.
He's taken the Hard Road.
Free Him!
Start the perjury investigations into the 2 managers involved.
Free Terry Childs!
Yes management can ask him for his passwords.
And he can refuse, at the cost of his employment, which he did.
And they are right then to fire him, as they did.
But then they asked him again ... without contract.
And this time he had NO moral or legal obligation to respond.
So they had him arrested.
And held incognito (he was *so* dangerous).
And NINE MONTHS LATER he is STILL in prison.
On what charge?
*Potential* damage.
As I said the first time:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=623377&cid=24312689
Unless there are some new facts, I for one as an ex ISP SysAdmin,
would like to salute Mr Childs.
This is why Ireland said NO to the Lisbon treaty.
When you see the response of other EU nations,
you can *feel* the arrogance. Not just to the citizens,
but to smaller nations.
The EU is losing touch with basic democratic principles,
especially the concept of Accountability.
They have forgotten that they are servants of the people,
and need to be reminded.
Quick Followup:
"Childs is being held on $5 million bail, as the authorities fear he could unleash a wave of attacks on the FiberWAN system Childs built. It controls the city's e-mails, payroll, law enforcement records and other data."
"Could Unleash"
In America, people are being held in preventative custody for actions
they could "potentially" perform.
Without evidence.
You get the government you deserve.
A little point to consider.
He was fired.
At that point in time, all deals are off.
You fire me, effective immediately, I am not telling you shit.
Why? Because I no longer have contractual obligations to you.
Why? Because you are no longer paying me.
What do people expect ?
You wear the uniform and stay loyal, *until* you are gone.
From that moment onwards, there is nothing to bind or hold you.
You leave and look ahead to the next one.
That seems to be what he did.
He felt he should no longer have to supply them with ANY information,
post employment.
And I think him right.
In an American, Red Blooded Capitalist way.
No Services without Payment.
To suggest otherwise is to create a new sub-class of citizen,
with limited rights, who can be arrested for NO LEGAL REASON.
Who can be 'ordered' by a court to fix someone's problems,
without compensation or consideration.
Just a Techie.
Consider Childs. Held on what charge? For 5M BAIL? Fuck off!
Of course he should have been asked for the password long before.
And documentation.
And mentoring of the "PFY" assistant which they seem not to have given him.
But the Management involved here have already shown their complete "fantasy"
cost reduction mindset.
How?
Because they had a single guy, was on his OWN, running an entire
cities network. And they were too incompetent to create effective
controls or to maintain a business relationship with him.
In short, tough shit to the probably politically appointed chumps
who treated their own people so badly.
Fuckem.
Does anyone else remember the advertising in The Space Merchants, which included exactly this "straight-to-skull" messaging?
...
The hero ends up being addicted to alkaline enhanced cola, since he once had the misfortune to walk into a street audio billboard
which plays the Moke Coke subliminal message.
I feel we move closer to the world of that book every day
Ahh! Iain M. Banks!! ...
- And the fight underneath the Hoverships, between 2 guys who look the same
- And Knife missiles
- And the Fat "eater" with the metal teeth
But I always wanted "Use of Weapons" to be filmed,
strangely enough not for the mega scenes, but for the
simple house in the garden, seen once as for kids,
once as coitus interruptus, and finally the tank,
with the command being "Fire!".
- "I got you a hat!"
- The slaver's tongues.
- The boy with the knives fighting Zak on the beach.
- The caldera. "Sky?"
- "Suspend Trapdoor coverage."
- The torch spinning in Zero-G, and if the light ends shining
in his eyes, Zak will open his helmet.
- A woman walking through the snowstorm, the dark shape of the
module spaceship following behind her, like a big dog.
This is doable.
Loathe though I am to admit it, MSFP with MS Exchange 2003 SP2 beats BlackBerry bloody.
... WebDAV.
... ... they really should have invested more in their tech, ...
It works, it costs customer companies less money and there will be a huge range of phones, from the usual suspects and more.
Some phones may burn their batteries out within a day, but no-one considers that on purchase, and that will not slow adaption.
But here is the interesting part:
Apparently the new ActiveSync "push" protocol and the Outlook 2003 protocol are simply
Which theoretically means that MS have opened up their Exchange server to ANY clients that can talk WebDAV.
And since you can just trace messages on the server side, (so long as non-https or you have the private key), reverse engineered Open Source solutions cannot be too very far off.
Anyone care to comment?
Is Windows Mobile media 5.0 the end of the proprietary Exchange regime ??
As for RIM
rather than in their lawyers
Bleeding Heart Liberal!
... "The War on Bugs"!
It's time for
Mandatory life sentence on detection of 1st bug.
Or for any spelling mistake.
Or for working for a company which does not pay the ruling party, enough.
Or for voting for any other party.
Or for being different race/creed/sex/sexual-preference.
Or for being poor.
"Tough on Bugs - Tough on the causes of bugs!"
"You are either with us, or against us!"
"Working together to make $COUNTRY strong!"
Are you down with The War on Bugs?
Really ?
...
They're peasant victims are the results of "evil"
but our peasant victims are due to "unfortunate and unavoidable side-effects" ??
Both look like piles of bodies of the vulnerable to me.
And you both sound like self-justifying murderous S.O.B.s to me.
Read the info on F.I.S.H. during Fallujah ??
That's Fighting In Somebody's House.
Basically shotgun holes in walls and doors, then throw grenades in,
then rush on full auto, and afterwards, everyone who is dead was an "insurgent".
Or just leave them for 2 weeks to rot in the wreckage, since who gives a fuck,
we don't count "their" dead.
Look at the pictures of the dead.
Look at the ratio of casualties to captured weapons.
Too Many Civilians.
For people who claim that grenading innocents, whether they be men, women or children, sight unseen, bodies uncounted, is just "unavoidable collateral damage", my heart is ashen, and I look upon you in shame, if not in anger.
But then, you're not listening, are you ??
Perhaps he should have informed his employer, which is what I hoped to hear other people's opinions on.
But, in what is now common, his employer, without any discussion, simply terminated him (within trial period or not).
Which brings me to my point, and comment on the "Zeitgeist":
Dissent is now simply, not tolerated.
Seems to me that he played straight ball, by the rules. It is in NO way "threatening" to state that you will report illegal activities, should they not cease immediately.
It is in fact a DUTY to do so. Perhaps even to report previous events, even if they are no longer being committed.
It is polite, as Chip did, to first bring things to the attention of the owners/decision makers, since it is possible that they simply did not know. But only polite, since the "deal" is between a citizen and the state.
From their subsequent actions, it is quite clear, that they did know, did not care and sought to hide any evidence and suppress any witnesses.
The other aspects:
- gunpoint blanket seizure of any related property, by pumped up police
- search warrants signed automatically, without inspection, by overworked, disengaged judiciary
- the implicit assumption that ANY individual involved in ANY action with ANY COMPANY is, obviously guilty.
- The automatic DEFENSE, without bothering to read or check any of the facts, of the COMPANY, by people who should know better.
All of these seems to be now "normal", and part of a whole climate of contempt for the rights of individuals, and the deification of the rights of companies.When exactly did it all change? When did it start being normal that the citizen is automatically the enemy ?
So, the state can steal your property, paying whatever it chooses to pay, if anything, in compensation?
... all those troops need some comfort ...
With whose money will the State pay ? Let's make a guess, taxpayer's money ??
It is then allowed for the State to GIVE or sell (for how much exactly?) the property to a private business, in return for "higher" predicted tax income.
So, there are rules to ensure that the taxes will be paid? That they must be paid for a set number of years or at least a lump-sum paid in lieu ??
What if the business, who would of course pay tax, goes bankrupt?
Would a purchasing business be obliged to cover the "social debt" of the original business, which allowed the theft of the original property ?
But wait a minute, this principle could also work for *people* as well as property, could it not ?
Now what if the state/people/public good would better be served by forcing YOU personally to do something you really don't want to??
Similar, to say, conscription. With say, that shiny, shiny, new Pentagon database?
If all our wars are good, because we are simply the "Good Guys", no matter what.
THEN rather than be a poor/worthless/unemployed/ex-criminal (drug crimes, of course) *citizen*, why we could MAKE you join the army !! Send you ANYWHERE.
Do you the world of good! Make a man of you !!
No problem, since its better for the Public Good.
And what about women ??? Ummm. Well we'll find a use for you
Again it is for the public good.
Now what is your problem!
Dissent is illegal.
Protest is restricted to "Free Speech Zones".
Elections are "surprisingly" won, with the help of certain companies electronic voting machines.
Or re-districting.
In short: Jesus. Fucking. Christ. On a Pogo Stick.
Am I glad I live NOWHERE near the "Land of the Free".
Good luck to y'all.
Don't forget that pool of outsourcing warmth: Eastern Europe.
...
Salaries drop 60% to 10% the further east you get.
But our "Marketing Savvy" will save us
So why not Anonymous post its name ???
Like, they care if you exist or not ?
So why not? (Anonymously).
Stop doing them favours, any favours at all.
Given a choice, how many people would go to the trouble of killing the guy and faking the hanging, rather than have to work 80+ hour weeks, losing wife, kids, ...
At which point is it worth fighting back?
When you have to work 100 hour weeks, unpaid, forever ?
When the work permanently damages your health ?
When your wife must do the same ??
When her boss gets to fuck her too, as part of the "standard" contract ??
At which point do people start saying "too much" ?
Or, is there *any* point, no matter how extreme, at which some people (too often from the U.S.) will actually concede to be "too much", and grudgingly allow the possibility, that maybe, just maybe, some form of worker protection laws are required to be enforced ??
Not to the
As their fine citizens love reminding us, what happens in America (States, United or not, thereof) is really none of our damn business.
... ... those we can comment on ...
Great! I agree totally. Not our problem.
Death Penalty for Copyright Infringement ?
=> Fantastic Idea.
Mandatory, per-citizen purchases (taken from wages at source, by government, for a cut) of whatever
products any corporation wishes to offer, with corporation being chosen by auction ??
=> Super. Bring it on.
Let them deal with it.
We don't live there, are not subject to its laws and really couldn't care less anymore.
Now, WIPO and EU are different stories
Hmm.
Always interesting: so many people accept as normal that although they are being paid salary, they are being treated as contractors (no work, no pay).
Even more interesting, is when the same people defend their employer's interest, over their own.
Gratifying, is the number of people who spot this for the paradox it is.
Amen to the above.
The endless question, whenever people are bitching and whining, especially when they are correct.
Why put up with this ?
Majority rule, with respect of rights of minorities.
Otherwise known as democracy.
America at the moment is quite bluntly, widely seen as *insane*.
Its judicial system.
Its willingness to kill, but not to build.
Its constant attempts to "enclose" public domain.
Its claims to freedom of speech, but sameness of
media, and their blatant bias.
Its lack of understanding, compassion, generosity, and will or ambition to improve the too-often lousey lot of the majority of humanity.
Europe is, to be brutaly honestly, smugly as bad.
BUT, we are not changing it.
Until one day, it will be our asses against the wall, and guess what, no-one will be helping *US*,
because we found many reasons not to help others.
Last thought?
Yes the we includes me, as it includes you.
"Its not how many people you kill that counts,
its how many you set free."
Holy Shit!
Instant classic.
Fan-tastic link.
Sucks in belly, decides to go exercise, NOW !!!
Not the battle, but when the Silent Sleeper "drops" cover and simultaneously transports 10,000 animals,
... Oh Shit! Its ALL ENGINE"
some the size of Ireland, onto the ring, then boots out of there.
The watching ship, dumping its air to speed up drones flying along access tubes to get back on, slamming force fields up where there are humans, and all the time thinking "I can catch it! I can catch it! Unless, unless,
Classic.
As is the line from the Affront allied Mind,
"Cloud of warships", I.e. 100,000 an up.
Love that Book.
Agreeing with the Grey Area.