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Microsoft to Replace Blackberry?
nmccart writes "According to Wired Magazine, Microsoft, along with Cingluar and Vodaphone, is planning to introduce the next generation of Windows Mobile phones that can receive e-mails "pushed" directly from servers that handle a company's messaging. This will allow companies to skip over the cost of installing a Blackberry server, and instead just use the Exchange servers that they are already using. The question becomes, now that this technology is cheaper, will my VP be buying new Windows Mobile enabled cell phones for his entire department just so we can put in more hours?"
So many places i know now are running blackberry and so many people i know have blackberry devices i think it will take a long time if it ever does occur for people to switch over to Windows SmartPhones.
Now that NTP's patents are most likely bunk, we're going to see the freemarket at work. It's a perfect example of how bad patents stifle competition.
We don't know if this will be a product that every exec is going to want installed for their workforce, but we can safely assume that yes, you are going to work more hours.
Yes I will. Now get back to work!
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
Can't wait to see the fireworks when RIM turns around and sues Microsoft for patent infringement of some sort to prevent them from impementing this plan...
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
will my VP be buying new Windows Mobile enabled cell phones for his entire department just so we can put in more hours?
Only if you let him. I am on salary and work 40 hours. The first year +, I worked 60 hours plus. Then, as I automated and gaine control over recurring issues, I got more done in 40 than when I was working 60.
I was under pressure to keep working more than 40... I just said 'no'. Simple as that. And I have received a promotion since then, so no "black list" occurred.
If you aren't in a position to say 'no', get there. No job is worth working more than half of your waking hours.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
My Treo already has email, a Web browser, and SMS capability. This would just involve Microsoft, and as good as they are at designing easy UIs, I don't see how that would be necessary.
Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
They will be called "Blueberries." Not because they won't want to be associated with Blackberry, but because of the constant flow of error screens.
Ryan - http://www.thecosmotron.com/
Also, with the new "monitoring" of search engines that is starting to occur, do you think that M$ will be able to read the e-mails that go over the network they control? I mean, media player already sends little bits of information, whats to say that e-mail can be monitored and flagged by certain text. Example: "Lets start using Linux" Suddenly, an e-mail would be sent to your handset, offering a DEEP discount on a new server product. Or with the government going APE POOP over wiretapping, how about a tax break for some open door e-mail access?
Well if it isn't the leader of the wiener patrol, boning up on his nerd lesson...
I've been using "Push" email with ChatterMail on my Treo 600 and my company's IMAP server for a while now.
No Mickysoft exchange server needed.
That you have read your phone's instruction manual, and know with confidence how to operate the "Power" button.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
The question becomes, now that this technology is cheaper, will my VP be buying new Windows Mobile enabled cell phones for his entire department just so we can put in more hours?
That would probably depend upon the cost per unit of the phones along with any other expenses connected with the rollout of this system compared to the relative value of each additional potential employee hour worked. You might also ask yourself, especially if they do set this up and start abusing it on nights and weekends, if this is the type of company that you want to continue working for? Technology enables us to be on call anytime from just about anywhere, but just because we can doesn't mean that we should and anyone who has ever been asked to take their laptop with them on their "vacation" will know precisely what that means.
Microsoft is a great company and should be doing this as part of their innovative spirit. The only company that can do better is Apple because they would make it "cool" and people would love it, not just use it.
I like the headline: "MS Venture Nips at BlackBerry". How about "MS Will Eat BlackBerrys (for) Lunch." Anybody want to bet how long RIM's going to last? Two years? Three?
(a) First iteration of MS products are seldom stable, RIM is already there.
(b) The existing Crackberry addicts will only switch when their existing units are pried from their cold dead fingers.
(c) I'll contend that the majority of type-A folks that need this already have it in Blackberry, and MS and the cell providers will be trying to get people to switch vs. trying to get lots of new customers to buy in. Smaller potential market, and perhaps already near saturation.
Now, I'm not blindly bashing MS here, but what's the deal? Don't they know when they're beat, or when they should focus on their strong points.
They keep trying to invade markets in which they have little experience or few proven solutions. It seems like every week they have an 'IPod Killer' for every damned piece of technology out there, perhaps they're spreading themselves thin, ergo releasing poor quality products across the board.
My own personal observations seem to support this, but then again I'm probably biased against microsoft (and don't give me any I'm not biased crap because everybody is in one way or another.)
The only company that seems to successful at re-inventing the wheel at this point in time seems to be Google (or possibly apple). Is MS just a lumbering giant trying to get it's greasy fingers in every bit of pie?
I could see the truth if I was blind.
How much does a BES server + CALS (or equivalent) cost? I don't have a clue, never having had the chance to set one up. However, I will bet that it's insignificant compared to the monthly cost of the data service. In Canada, the RIM data plans are about $40/mo.
A Microsoft Exchange centered system is not going to reduce the cost of the monthly wireless plans unless the cell provider is willing to take less profit on the MS devices. They won't unless competition forces the issue.
I suppose that MS could also collect less of a monthly fee per device than RIM. Does anyone know what RIM's cut of monthly fees is?
Ah yes... ye olde vertical monopoly leverage.
So long as RIM has exclusive rights to the "scroll wheel," they'll still be in business.
"The question becomes, now that this technology is cheaper, will my VP be buying new Windows Mobile enabled cell phones for his entire department just so we can put in more hours?"
No. God invented the "off switch" for a reason.
I propose a mandatory $.25 tax on questions at the end of Slashdot posts. Will anybody second the motion?
Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
I'm not sure from the brief article what is news here. Already, our mail server can forward email to a user's cell phone, and we could do this for years now. Most current cellular phones can send and receive mail. Can someone clarify why this announcement is newsworthy?
Yep, it'll be a lot of extra work keeping these things safe.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
I'd love to do that, but if I recall "Right to work" states allow employers the right to fire you for refusing to work more hours. Could be wrong though. Now where I work (Large US electronics retail store who shall remain nameless)full timers are given *exactly* 40 hours per week and if you stay longer you had better have a good reason, because after that you go into overtime. The ideal weekly budget for hours has full timers working 30-40 hours per week, part timers working 4-24 hours/week, and managers pushing 60+ hours/week. Although management is salaried so it doesn't matter as much as for us hourly workers. This employer also has it written into our contracts that they will never guarantee more than 4 hours/week to any employee, even full timers. Needless to say I'm glad I have other sources of income besides this job. In general though , I believe it is severly frowned upon in corporate America if you refuse to not work more hours as you are not being "A team player", and I'm sure that doing so would cause you to be on many managers blacklists . Sad but true fact of life.
"The boy is dangerous, they all sense it, why can't you?"
Microsoft's late to the game as usual. The idea is so obvious is should have come out many years ago. But Microsoft can never sit back. They can't stand to let any segment of the computer market go untouched. But rather than innovate they don't think of what customers want most until some other company has already filled the void successfully. This will definitely be another second-rate product losing revenue. That definitely won't help their stagnant stock price either.
Developers: We can use your help.
Blackberry works great for people with no servers etc. Our mobile solution has been Goodlink which makes the Treo a force to be reckoned with (if you get a working Treo that is, but that's another issue...), it can also run on some blackberries(I think) and WinCE.
Support for mobiles built in exchange? Bye-bye Goodlink at $300 a seat.
The question becomes, now that this technology is cheaper, will my VP be buying new Windows Mobile enabled cell phones for his entire department just so we can put in more hours?
That's a pretty stupid question. Phrased that way, the VP would be an idiot unless he has a chunk of change for over time or wants to be sure that he doesn't have some stupid IT people show up at a company function (muwahaha, I'll have them install stuff during the party so they can't show up - muwaaahhhaaahaha).
What the real questions are these: Is the value proposition greater or less than what we have? If it is greater value, then how long to pay out? Longer than the mean time to obsolescence of the new devices? What's the NPV? Should we move to an integrated solution, or stay on the best of breed? How many of the Blackberry devices are out there now in our company and what is the growth rate of the demand for them?
Oh wait - those questions aren't inflamatory so the article wouldn't have gotten posted if they were asked instead of the silly one...
I hooked up a few of these. This is definitely a Ver 1.0 or Ver 2.0 Microsoft effort. After hooking it up I tried to sync my 1000+ contacts, and it gave up the ghost at ~100, with no errors mind you. Also "push" is not seamless like a RIM, it goes out via the carrier's SMTP to SMS gateway so in some cases it gets crushed in carrier's SPAM filters. Never mind that a very common setup of no front-end OWA server is not supported out of the box, but via "knowledge base" article.
This is not ready for prime time.
First off, I generally love mobile technologies.....I check my gmail account on my phone, I use my PDA to get on the web from hotspots, and I'm pretty obsessive about having my cell phone with me. These things give me the kind of connections to friends and family that past generations never dreamed of. When it comes to employers calling "after hours" though, the question is when is it an unfair burden on the employee. If, say about 30 years ago, an employer told you that to do your job you'd need to actually live at the office, nobody would take the job. Now however, wherever you are, you're conceivably "in the office". Companies are under increased pressure to get every billable-second from their employees, and employees are pressured to always be more productive than the guy in the next cube, so where do we go now? Is this just the way things will be for workers going forward, or should a new generation of guilds/unions/advocacy groups/etc be stepping up to work with employers to create the guidelines for how to treat employees in a 24/7 world?
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
Anybody want to bet how long RIM's going to last? Two years? Three?
Microsoft is not a juggernaut that rolls over everything that it touches. They have failed *many* times in becoming even a viable competitor in certain marketplaces, let alone a dominant force that squashes everyone. Examples of where they have not wiped out an established competitor include home finances software (vs Quicken), PDA platforms (vs Palm), game consoles (vs Sony), search engines (vs Google), web portals (vs Yahoo), DRM'ed music files (vs Apple), etc, etc, etc.
RIM is no pushover. They've been building Blackberries for almost 10 years now, and have a lot of technology experience (and a lot of patents) in their pocket. They also have a fanatical following in the corporate world, not unlike iPods in the consumer world. Sure, MS might compete, but put RIM out of business in 2-3 years. *NOT* going to happen!
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
... How come *every single* time a company launches a competitor to an already existing product line the first line, or the subject, of the news post reads "XLARGECOMPANYHEREX replacing\usurping\destroying\ YLARGECOMPANY'SPRODUCTY"?
I wonder if microsoft's strategy here is really the best. They almost always find ways to package software like e-mail and other mobile computing applications into cell phones, where, mobile e-mail and cell phones can actually be better off separated (in terms of the wireless worker). Consider this, you own a business. You decide that everyone on your staff needs mobile e-mail. Do you A: get them a system that allows them to send and recieve e-mail, or B: get them all "cell phones" that they can also use to handle "business phone calls"? Also, think of it from the worker's perspective. You're not going to drop your current cell phone service because you wont take personal calls on the company's dime (at least, not all of them). So, what you're going to end up with is nothing more or less than two cell phones on you at all times either of which could ring to your dismay. While i have no particular appreciation for RIM over microsoft, or vice versa, I just dont see the "cell phone route" as the one that will end up being the best strategy for everyone involved.
It's actually almost never illegal (in the US) if you're a salaried employee.
Look - even PalmOS fanatics like the thing. It kills any RIM device, Today! OMA makes Blackberry mail seem like a POP3 account, for organizations that operate an Exchange server.
This device is incredible. Complete freedom from using the stylus for all web/mail and phone - with full Windows Mobile 2005 - not the bastard stripped-down Smartphone version. EVDO connectivity - leaves GPRS in the dust. I don't miss WiFi, with this. I had reservations leaving GSM networks, but this device and connectivity are more than compensatory. I'll use my old, HTC Wallaby with an Orange "pay-as-you-go" when back in the U.K.
Once I upgrade to a 2Gb SD card, I am ditching the Nano. The iPod dial is replaced with voice commands.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Why bother using Exchange and crappy MS phones when you can use Open-Xchange and push messages with its SyncML Oxtension to a real phone, including a Blackberry or Treo?
--
make install -not war
"pull quite often" is not the same as "push".
While access to e-mail, calendar, contacts, notes, and to-dos are all useful functions of a blackberry that's connected to a corporate Exchange server, I can see a couple of issues:
1) Microsoft isn't exactly known for security. To my knowledge there have been very few hacks of the RIM BES product because of its' nature - it establishes outbound-only connections to the RIM servers which then link back to the wireless providers.
2) MDS. The BES allows (via this same set of secured connections) access to the corporate intranet servers (assuming it's configured to do so). I personally have found this to be a very, very useful feature. Lots of stuff in our daily business does not live in the realm of Exchange, but might live in the realm of our intranet servers. RIM made this easy by allowing admins to avoid worrying about VPN tunnels or SSL connections. Set it up, and it just works. I have a feeling that this product offering might not compete in this arena.
Microsoft can never provide the one BlackBerry 'killer app', and that's PIN messaging. PINs are encrypted end-to-end and never are visible to anyone other than the sender and receiver. As the underlying protocol that carries the other messages (email for example) on the BlackBerry system, they are highly secure and that's why governments trust the system for such messages. But email uses untrusted servers and crosses app boundaries - PINs don't - so only a PIN can be trusted.
For those that don't know, PIN messages are transferred through the BlackBerry network from the sender's 'berry over a dedicated GPRS APN using AES encryption. After that, they are passed up to Waterloo ON where they are routed - without being decrypted - to the destination, where the reverse of the sending occurs. Note that nowhere does the BES or email enter into this.
For savvy but non-technical users (i.e. many executives) who want to keep their conversations private, a PIN simply can't be beat - you've got a commercial service which guarantees delivery (you can check when your PIN arrives with a little 'D' in your sent items) and guarantees security. Plus you don't have to pass around public keys to make it work.
Yes, you can do email any number of different ways. And yes, you could secure messages with AES encryption although nowhere near as easily as this. But to get all of that in a box with ease of use that pleases executives... hard to beat RIM on this one.
Isn't the software monopoly enough for Microsoft? Now they want to replace my food! Shoo, Bill! I won't eat some shoddy CD-roms with my breakfast yoghurt!
The PDAs I've used or attempted to use...
Handspring Visor
iPaq 3600
Jornada 548
iPaq 3800
Jornada 568
T-Mobile Pocket PC Phone Edition
Sony Clie SJ22
I finally switched back to Palm. An older device, refurbished, that suits me better than any of the Windows Powered devices or the newer PalmOS handhelds.
Microsoft improved things in each new device, but only at the cost of a reduction in capability in other areas. But the difference between these devices and a Palm, let alone a Blackberry, is incredible. Rather than a device designed for a purpose (personal organization, email) these are pretty much baby laptops, complete with a very desktop-like operating system that requires far far more handholding than the simpler operating systems in the palm or blackberry.
I can't imagine relying on Pocket PC or any variant thereof. I gave it a chance, over three generations of the software, and it let me down.
This is all based on second-hand information, so some of it might be wrong, but here's my understanding of how it works.
Getting mail to to a WinCE PDA has always been easy. The standard technique was POP or IMAP over whatever Internet connection you can finagle (eg, GPRS). However that was always a pull technique and the thing about crackberry addicts is they want the mail to appear on their PDA as soon as it arrives at the mail server (push). One technique is to send an SMS every time a mail arrives so the PDA knows to check the server, another technique is to poll the server frequently, but both of those techniques can be very expensive.
The new WinCE enabled PDA achieves push by opening an HTTP XML request back to your Outlook Web Access server. It sends the username and then just waits. If any mail arrives then the OWA sends back a "ping" message that tells the PDA to pull the new mail. When the HTTP request times out the PDA simply opens a new connection. Effectively this works the same as push - mail "appears" on the PDA as soon as the Exchange server gets it - but without excessive bandwidth costs or SMS costs. It also means you don't need special crackberry servers or a crackberry subscription.
So my guess is that this will be the downfall of crackberry, and not a moment too soon.
Geez you are so wrong it's ridiculous. Unfortunately, this is par for the course for most /. readers - whiny bitches who lack the facts to back up their assertions. This is particularly ludicrous when it's so easy to look up the actual law (hint: try Title 29, "Labor" where Chapter V "Wage and Hour Division" is prominent).
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
The good:
------------------
1) If the real-life version works as well as the virtual PC demo I participated in, it will do exactly what the marketing materials say it does.
2) It not only synchs email, but todo, contacts, appointments, etc. Everything but public folders, I think.
3) On the server side, all of the software required to do push sync is free with Exchange Server 2003.
The bad:
------------------
1) Phone requires Windows Mobile 5.0, plus a sync driver/module thingy that (groan) HAS TO BE INSTALLED ON THE PHONE BY THE MOBILE VENDOR.
2) Support for this configuration is, well, going to suck because the mobile vendors will push you through their help desk (pretty much guaranteed to NOT understand this), and Microsoft can't support the mobile piece of the puzzle directly, even though it's technically their software.
3) The range of services over which mobile vendors will be able to exert their control has been expanded to include private corporate messaging, appointments and task lists! Yay!!!!
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
The next logical step would be that it becomes free, by Google, and while a sound product/service it will undoutably have questionable privacy & data retention policies that tarnish it's images before it leaves Beta in 2018.
Duh.
So I can laugh as you suffer through endless sleepless, sexless nights, cleaning up the next generation of super worm, using idiot cellphones to spread by showing them a caller ID or email from "Sexyfun.net" or "Sexy Snow White"... yep, good luck chief, better you than me :) I'll stick to my Zaurus and Linux.
~D
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
What is it with microsoft thinking they can all of a sudden trump their competition by re-inventing products that already exist and are dominating the market.
It worked for Apple and it's MP3 player didn't it? Perhaps Microsoft thinks they can do the same thing, re-hash an idea RIM has already made popular and sell it because they implemented it better and more elegantly than RIM did. RIM has been alone in it's market for a long time and quite frankly they have their had thumb stuck up a certain orifice instead of keeping ahead of the competition which is now cathcing up.
They keep trying to invade markets in which they have little experience or few proven solutions. It seems like every week they have an 'IPod Killer' for every damned piece of technology out there, perhaps they're spreading themselves thin, ergo releasing poor quality products across the board.
I will freely admit to being prone to bashing Microsoft although when I think they deserve it. However one has to give them credit when they do something right, some of their products are simply quite good, that includes the Office suite and Exchange even if their Windows XP operating system sucks ass. They are a significant player on the smarpthone market and to tell you the truth their Windows Mobile OS unlie Windows XP is not half bad. The only complaint I have is poor Microsoft Office integration on OS.X. Microsoft has a very sigificant position on the Smpart/PDA-phone market and offering Exchange native push mail will only strenghten their position. Another strong point of Microsoft is that it offers UI consistency accross multiple phones from numerous different manufacturers that feature a variety of ergonomic designs to suit almost every users taste.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
I work at a small-sized consulting firm, last year a few of the managers/execs so me with a a Siemens SX-66 Windows Mobile Phone that I bought on my own dime and decided that they wanted one. So, they bought about a dozen and they were universally despised. The software was finicky, they Sprint models they had behaved differently than my Cingular model and they all developed mechnical problems and broke after a while. Mine, well it's still running fine, but I treat it like what it is... a small computer and not a phone. After much belly-aching and nashing of teeth we got crackberries. They just work. They're not the most technically amazing things, the screens aren't great, etc, etc, etc. But they work, they don't break that easily and they're almost idiot proof... perfect for today's office environment.
That assumes you're using Exchange in the first place. Not everybody does.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
No it's not illegal... it's called doing your job and keeping the employer happy.
I work nearly a 7 day week if I were to take into account *Everything*. Timesheets are 40 hours a week...
Works both ways of course - I can have a couple of days off and even it out occasionally.
Consider this:
One of the main reasons that Blackberries are so popular is their use in Government. This is primarily due to the Blackberries being through several certification processes to demonstrate that they are secure and can be used to manage materiel classified up to a specific level.
The other is that they work.
Now, try to see Microsoft doing the same. They can barely get certification for products that are nearing EOL. Any Windows powered device in this kind of an environment is doomed to fail.
One of the guys here has a Windows powered smartphone - he's forever power cycling the damn thing, or just tossing it in his top drawer and walking away.
Personally I hate Blackberries - they are a PITA to manage with the executive where I work.
But I'd have to hate a Windows powered equivalent even more.
The question becomes, now that this technology is cheaper, will my VP be buying new Windows Mobile enabled cell phones for his entire department just so we can put in more hours?
Yes, your VP will spend extra money (for the phones, any overtime/comp time and having to listen to you demand a higher raise) just to make you have to put in more hours. Come on dude, I know people like to be melodramatic but let's be at least reasonably sensible about it.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
At least, that's what I'd expect around here. We do support emails to our cell phones here. Curiously, I get bitched out if I don't respond quickly. However, the cellular carrier does not guarantee speedy delivery. I've gotten a "sev 1" page on my phone up to 10 minutes AFTER I've already fixed the problem and closed out the ticket. And I get "dinged" for making somebody call me at home because I did not respond to the email which I did not receive.
Hey, if there can be an antitrust suit over itunes and the iPod, then maybe the courts could give us one over Exchange. Force MS to open the specs to Exchange.
God how I wish the opposite were true....
Every time you call tech support, a little kitten dies.
If you have Exchange server 2003 and a Palm Treo 650, you can now receive all your data stored in Outlook/Exchange without the need of a middle tier like Goodlink or Blackberry.
Our company plans to roll out Verizon based Treo 700w units later this year connected to Exchange without a Blackberry or Goodlink server.
I predicted (the demise of Blackberry and Goodlink) a year ago when we first connected a Treo to our Exchange server. Why would we continue to pay Goodlink when we get similar functionality without the per-seat cost of Goodlink or Blackberry?
-ted
Well, from my personal experience, MS pda-phones are just as ass-backwards as Windows is, whereas the few times I've used a BlackBerry I found it pretty straightforward and had no problem at all getting to the functions I wanted to use. Frankly the only reason I see to use MS' new device(s) is to maintain a high level of synchronization with an office-place workstation with contacts, calendar and emails... Which AFAIK BlackBerry does anyways, so...
(not to mention RIM doesn't seem to have that same "take over the planet with profitable crappy tech" attitude)
It just, ewh.
Oh okay, how bad was it? Well ewh. Yes it is childish but it was just so... ewh. I can't really put it in anyother way. Mediocre perhaps but that ain't it. Bad? No the basic idea was okay but just well done in an ewh way. Not so much buggy as just not working.
Offcourse it had to be rebooted or rather reset every few hours. Of course it froze and of course programs crashed. It was a first generation MS product. But that wasn't the only problem, anyway the unit I worked with was a test unit not a final production unit so it might have improved later (yeah right).
What was the real problem? Well take the browser. It was a crap version of IE (or should that be crappier? Crapiest?) version 5 I think with NO css support at all. None. Bit of a nasty shock to our designer that was.
It was a bitch to delvelop for when you got it to work. Meanwhile the other unit was one of those nokia phones, the one you got if you were a good boy, with an opera browser that was just like a real browser.
It for me was a typical MS product, badly done, half done and not finished. Did it sell? Yeah it did, not well but well enough. That is MS entire business strategy I think. Flood the industry with products that are crap but get accepted by the morons to force everyone to support MS.
It is kinda like IE. Every web builder knows that IE is the worst browser ever build but it is the one that controls what you can and cannot do on a website. Just today I had to tell someone that to have a fixed bar at the bottom of a website is not possible on their site because IE does not properly support css position: fixed. Works perfect in every browser except IE so you cannot use it on mainstream sites.
Will MS sell these phones to people that should have bought blackberry's. Off course. Probably not enough to be successfull but enough to force everyone to once again limit themselves to the lowest common denomenator.
Yuck. Someone please make my day and shoot a MS user.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
For Linux/Domino or Groupwise shops this doesn't seem to offer very much.
:)
:)
Blackberry allows Domino apps on Blackberry and Blackberry Messenger to Sametime connection from v4.1 (real soon now
Exchange gives you mail and contacts by the looks of it. How very 20th century
I hear they are going to FUCKING KILL GOOGLE TOO!
Nobody remembers the failures like MS Bob, Web TV, Windows For Pens.
And I'm also I'm sick of articles about iPod killers.
-- Boycott Shell
Using IMAP IDLE, you get push capabilities with a lot of mail readers. On Palm, for example, there's Chatter E-mail.
I have never understood why Blackberry has become so popular--I find the device, the user interface, and the service to be just awful compared to the alternatives.
If blackberry has any brains on its company, now would be a good time to give away their server as a GPL compatible thing.
This way, we (as in you and me) could make many FOSS groupware work with their POSH protocol and give MS a true run for their money.
On the other hand, BB would see their devices sales increase by leveraging on FOSS messanging solutions and i think we would have a chance to finally push MS the fuck out of that space (email and PIMS).
NO SIG
This is old news.
i ew_orange_spv_m500/rel=url2html-14240http://www.th eregister.co.uk/2005/07/18/review_orange_spv_m500/ >
We've been using the Orange SPV M2000 and SPV M500 Windows Mobile smartphones for the past year.
On Orange, they provide full Outlook integration, complete with "push" technology - so, like Blackberry, when you receive a mail, you know.
Works great, and the cost isn't huge. Heavy users cost £20 / month including line rental.
So not exactly expensive.
TheRegister have a review of the M500 here:
ahref=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/18/rev
Loathe though I am to admit it, MSFP with MS Exchange 2003 SP2 beats BlackBerry bloody.
... WebDAV.
... ... they really should have invested more in their tech, ...
It works, it costs customer companies less money and there will be a huge range of phones, from the usual suspects and more.
Some phones may burn their batteries out within a day, but no-one considers that on purchase, and that will not slow adaption.
But here is the interesting part:
Apparently the new ActiveSync "push" protocol and the Outlook 2003 protocol are simply
Which theoretically means that MS have opened up their Exchange server to ANY clients that can talk WebDAV.
And since you can just trace messages on the server side, (so long as non-https or you have the private key), reverse engineered Open Source solutions cannot be too very far off.
Anyone care to comment?
Is Windows Mobile media 5.0 the end of the proprietary Exchange regime ??
As for RIM
rather than in their lawyers
(R)ule in Hell or (S)erve in Heaven [R]?
funny how blackberry gets sued by a patent troll and now microsoft is getting in the market.
patents just seem to follow billy and steve wherever they go.
funny thing - probably just coincidence.
They forgot to mention the little thing that puts BlackBerry ahead of the competition... The AES and Triple DES encryption from the BES server (inside the Company) to the Handheld (On the wireless network)... http://www.blackberry.com/products/software/server /exchange/security.shtml
This has only been on its way since Exchange 2003 SP2 was released (October last year). OK, we're still waiting on the update to Windows Mobile 2005 to enable the "push" functionality, but why are we having this discussion now?
Getting to the point, the mid-sized government body I work for has rejected a proposed Blackberry installation, since there is very little point paying for extra server infrastructure and mobile email to be routed via Canada, when you can do the whole thing in house, with no extra expenditure in hardware (or software, for that matter).
I certainly think that if a business is already running Exchange, and they haven't got a pre-existing Blackberry system, there is absolutely no reason to invest in one. So if RIM want to grow, they will need to think of something "value-added" - or cross their fingers that the Exchange solution will be so flaky that no-one will implement it. Hopefully not the latter, since that's my mid-year project!
" instead just use the Exchange servers that they are already using "
They're using Exchange? That's a pretty bold statement.
And with Microsoft's security record...
-M
when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
or is your mobile phone just infected?
Have fun running a MS OS on your phone.
"Calling 4155532...
* * * STOP: 0X00000032 (0x0000023, 0x00000423)
TELEPHONY_STACKID_LESS_THAN_ZERO
This device has suffered a fatal exception, and will be shut down. A log file including details of your call has been sent to Microsoft for further investigation."
Why is this always an either/or issue with the Slashdot community? Hell, that's putting it tamely - more like why is it always a flame war? It's like nobody here actually runs an IT department. Or at least one that tries to address the end users' needs.
The Microsoft marketing material likes to play on the "no need for 3rd party licensing fees" but they're not *that* high... $99 to $249 per year per handheld?
Even in SMALL businesses (a dozen workstations/users) you have different users with different needs. Factoring out the cost of the device and the data plan (which are all *roughly* the same for Windows Mobile, Blackberry, whatever...), BES in a small biz is $750 a year and that's *with* a TSupport contract. At that point you can easily support Blackberries *or* Windows Mobile devices depending on the user's need.
Blackberry, Smartphone, Pocket PC Phone, etc... just hook it up and go. BES is there for the Blackberries, and MS's real-time HTTP pull is there for devices that support it.
Is it really an issue of how long RIM will last or "Jeez, should my organization go Blackberry or Microsoft??" I'd say any user that justifiably thinks they can be more productive with realtime, over-the-air synchronization of their e-mail/calendar/contacts/etc... is probably worth the few bucks it costs to give them the device they want.
It says 'Alter Relationship'...
:o
*sigh*
If only it were that easy
Less Talk. More Stab.
For all the complaints about the BES, you don't even need it. A simple .forward(or .procmailrc) takes care of getting your "old" address to go to your blackberry.
Not doubting MS will own this market eventually, but we are going through the shopping process for mobile devices and the blackberry won.. we can get blackberrys for $99-199 per device, they are much more rugged and durable and dependable. Active Sync has a ways to go before it is that reliable, and all the devices that can use active sync are either to fragile(large screen), too expensive vs the blackberry alternative. At this point Blackberry just works. Blackberry does need to get smart about the BES server pricing in the face of active sync though. Should be free or low one time cost or something along those lines, though they will give you the BES server and limited license as a hook if you work with a sales person.
Is there something I don't know about Blackberry reliability? So, you think it's better to use one of the least secure and most expensive mail servers because it has a special method to talk to a WinCE crippled PDA? WinCE and "Smart Phones" have both have records about as good as Exchange. Why are you so ready to jump on this?
Are you one of those people who used the term "Nutscrape"?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The question becomes, now that this technology is cheaper, will my VP be buying new Windows Mobile enabled cell phones for his entire department just so we can put in more hours?"
I doubt you'll even get one, being first tier phone support and all.
Is there something I don't know about Blackberry reliability?
Obviously, yes. But that's another issue. In any case, RIM servers work with mail servers (like Exchange) - they do not handle email by themselves. You don't understand how the system works, evidently.
least secure and most expensive mail servers
Exchange is pretty stable and secure. It's complex, but no more than other enterprise-level products. I mean, this is not sendmail here. You need to understand that. And yes, it's expensive. Most large companies could care less. Just ask anyone who uses Notes, for example. A good collab system is worth its weight in gold to any medium to large company. Business pretty much comes to a halt nowadays without one.
WinCE crippled PDA
That's clever. I guess only PDAs that use other than Microsoft products are by definition not 'crippled', right?
both have records about as good as Exchange
I'd say that's a pretty good record. If you have experience in the enterprise collaboration/messaging space, please provide more specifics. 'OMG EXCHANGE IS TEH SUX' doesn't really cut it.
Are you one of those people who used the term "Nutscrape"?
Coming from someone for whom the use of "Windoze", "Winblows", "M$" and the like have become an art, I have to say that's supremely rich.
So, what is it about Blackberry that makes it "Crackberry"? What does it do that makes it so popular over there? Surely it's not just about having a keyboard...
For what it's worth, I work for one of the big J-companies making new i-mode mobiles here in Japan.
* Insert cliche Borg reference here *
Do you think Microsoft had planned this out? I mean it's not the first corporation Microsoft has used to sue some one else.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
So once again Microsoft would have been out-innovated on their own platform and would now try to gain market share by product tying, aggressive dumping and squeezing competion through mandatory, free "extensions" to their Windows platform? Well that's a proven business model so why would they change it?
Hands down Exchange SP2 w/ Mobile 5 kicks Blackberry's ass but convincing crackberry users to switch is another matter. Convincing the C-level execs to go from Blackberry to iPaqs will be harder than it was getting them to switch from Eudora to Outlook.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is about delivering email to a mobile phone/similar device, right?
So can someone concisely, but patiently, explain why these devices can't use existing open standards, or why people talk like they need proprietary servers and protocols? It's email right? Didn't we figure out ways to do email a long time ago?
Wouldn't it work just to use TCP/IP & IMAP + SMTP over SSL? Advantages: open standards, can be very low cost, offers companies control over access to and transmission of data, well understood, no vendor lock in, and no expensive new servers etc are necessarily required (if these standards are already in use).
Are these new proprietary systems about control for vendors and shiny whizbangs to impress PHBs? What am I missing in my reasoning?
Thank you in advance for clearing this up. Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I'm a neophyte when it comes to mobile messaging. I'm so behind the times I even have SMS text messaging deprovisioned from my six year old TDMA cell phone!
Why should I care? I can already send and receive email with my cell phone as part of my text messaging package. In fact, I use this feature to enable Big Brother to page me about system downtime without having to carry an extra pager, or to have a phone line hooked up to a modem on the BB server. And with LG's T9En text completion, I can even be coherent in my messages.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Well, this is hardly any news. Push-mail was one of the major features of Exchange Server 2003 SP2, which was released several months ago.
:)
//A
Devices that can handle this are on the market, BUT Microsoft has been slow releasing the latest version of Windows Mobile 2005 (the OS on the phones) that can take advantage of this. That part is changing now as several devices are running the final beta for the new release.
As someone that has been running around with a push-mail device for a few months now I can only say that it sounds better than it is. The change from running ActiveSync the old way (device initiated checks for new mail) lets say every 15 mins, to hearing your phone beep and buzz every 2-3 mins is highly overrated. (And can get quite stressfull.)
Nice sideeffects though are when you notice that someone mailed the IT department distribution list when we all beep at the same time, and that the email gets quicker to your phone than it does to your Outlook client.
I'll look forward to next generation of Cell Phone morons standing in the grocery store screaming obsenities as their phone give them the Blue Screen of Death. Just think these idiots will actually PAY Microstuff to be abused and I'll get my comic relief for free.
I've been using microsoft's new push email on my Qtek 9100 with the messaging pack installed for over a week now and it works GREAT. RIM better have something good up their sleeves...
Simple explanation - Europe in Japan are far head of the US in adaptation of mobile technology.
This only indicates Microsoft might really be behind recent patent cases. They needed someone to slowdown blackberry while they try to produce equivalent solution. Btw. did they license NTP patents or...?
I have have a blackberry, that my company gave me. We didn't have to install any servers. Runs off our current email server, which is a qmail server.
-Pizentios
I am familiar with these laws, I actually read the document you linked to (you seem to have read it selectively, specifically forgot the long list of exempted workers) and I maintain my assertion. After this law was last revised recently by the Bush administration, almost no white colared salaried workers will get overtime, and working longer than 40 hours is ok, but often expected.
Why would this require exchange ? Couldn't any pop or imap server do as long as the device could create a secure tunnel to it ?
That was it . I was confused :). Thanks for clearing that up.
"The boy is dangerous, they all sense it, why can't you?"