Unless youve played eve-online you probably dont appreciate how broken aspects of WoW are. Please, for all of us, just shut the fuck up.
I played both WoW and Eve for extensive periods of time. Eve is really great if you're a hardcore RP'er and want to make your own corporation. Other than that it's a horribly boring game. Eve is ten times more broken then WoW. The T2 market is a mess, invention is worthless, pvp combat involves 90% waiting around doing nothing, major gui bugs, gate queues, boring mission system, I can keep going. If anything it's other way around. You can really see that Blizzard puts in alot more effort in to their game then CCP.
Oh and you want to talk about balancing in Eve? Don't make me link all the "Nerf Amarr", "Boost Minmatar" and all the other threads involving balance between the races.
Each class in WoW is totally unique, with competely different sets of abilities and each require totally different play styles. To make all 9 classes perfectly balanced is asking way too much. However, they are always tweaking the builds and making the balance better. Regardless, every single class is useful in some way.
Your play style in Eve, regardless of ship or situation, is turn on tank-modules/speed boosters, maintain optimum range, hit f1-f8. Yet there are many ships in Eve that are just completely useless. The "priest/healer" type ships are hardly ever seen in combat.
Many people don't "help make the world better" -- ever. You're right. I probably overall, by just being an American, "make the world" the same if not worse (even though I have done community service and donated to charities). I don't like this fact, and I'm trying to change that.
Fact of the matter is, if they weren't playing these games, most of these people would be watching TV. Or maybe sleeping. You can't naturally assume that the two choices for them are "play games" and "better the world". Doing so is overly simplistic and utterly moronic. If people were watching TV 12 hours a day, I would be still bitching about their worthlessness. I am obviously not assuming that if there wasn't WoW they wouldn't be wasting their lives on some other pointless activity. I'm also not saying doing pointless activities every once in a while is a bad thing. But I know personally know some really talented, intelligent people who would normally be great contributers to society, whether it be scientist or musicians, become worhtless slobs because of video games, and specifically WoW.
Ah good point, I almost forgot about officer modules. I guess T2 are more like the "blues" and officer modules are like epics. But really even after playing the game for 6 months, using officer mods just wasn't a viable option for me. They are so rare, so expensive, and with a unforgiving game like Eve, they just weren't worth it. Really, the only people who can afford it are the PVE only types, or the extremely rich types, and the extremely rich types are usually synonymous with T2 blueprint holders.
Yes, just like epics in WoW are only a few percentage points better than blue's, which are only slightly better then greens.
When you are able to fully outfit your ship with T2 equipment, a few percentage points (more like 5%) multiplied by 10-20 ends up being quite significant difference.
That's correct, implants and rigs are the Eve equivilants of "BOE" equipment. However implants/rigs are such a small aspect when calculating your ships overall effectiveness. Implants and rigs are also very small when compared to the whole market. Almost all of WoW's top equipment are BOE's/BOP's that are earned as PVP rewards or as instance drops.
So what you're really lamenting is that some of your friends don't put forth effort into what you consider more worthy causes. No, I'm lamenting that they are putting all this effort into a virtual cause instead of a real one. I'm not going to judge what their passions if they're are actaully trying to make this world better. But I just fail to see how you can make the world better by sitting on your ass playing WoW 12 hours a day.
This whole fiasco would have never happened if their method of introducing "epic" level equipment wasn't so horribly broken.
I'll give a basic summary:
Most weapons/equipment/ships in Eve are known as Tech 1 equipment. Tech 1 equipment require the material and Blueprints (sort of like recipes) to make them. Pretty much anyone can get into manufacturing Tech 1 equipment really easily. NPC's sell the blueprints at various stations, for relatively cheap prices.
The elite/uber items in the game are known as Tech 2 items. These ships/equipment are significantly more powerful than their Tech 1 counter parts. A cruiser with T1 equipment can't even be compared to a T2 cruiser with T2 equipment. Now since CCP wanted to keep the prices of these items really high, they decided to implement a lottery system. They made you go through some really complicated process of doing "research missions" (I still don't really know the specifics because people don't want to give away the secrets and lose chances of winning the lottery). Once you've done enough research missions you can put in your bid in for a very small chance of winning a T2 blueprint. Since very few people have these blueprints, you basically have a monopoly over the epic items if you win the blueprint, allowing you to charge friggin' rediculous prices when you sell the items on the market.
Now, all in all this isn't a horrible situation except when you get a powerful Alliance like BoB who have tons of manufactuers/industrialists and the money to back them up. They got in to the T2 market early and was able to by other T2 blueprints from non BOB players because they could offer healthy sums of cash without blinking and eye. Now add the fact that THERE ARE DEVELOPERS playing for BoB who were giving them T2 blueprints for free, the market became fubar'd, and one alliance dominates every fucking aspect of the game. Not cool.
CCP tried to fix things with invention, where you could upgrade T1 blueprints to T2. But it was an even more difficult process and the results was a temporary blue print that would go away after a few uses. It's nothing that could break up the monopoly.
Blizzard really got it right when they introduced "bind on equip" and "bind on pick-up" equipment. It prevented the hardcore players of hording all the "good" items and then selling them for unfair prices. If CCP introduced something similar with blueprints, I think the T2 market wouldn't have been so broken.
I couldn't agree more. Some of my friends can talk hours on end about WoW. It drives me nuts. I can see that they have so much passion for overcoming challenges in their virtual world. It's just sad that there are so many challenges in the real world that are being ignored, but people rather level up their fishing on their paladin.
[quote] After they left, communists took power -- [b]and killed far more people than the war.[/b] [/quote]
Link, please.
First of all, Americans where in Vietnam for more than two decades. They had their chance. It's not like the American forces didn't some small window of oppurtunity to end the conflict.
Second, can you give an accurate estimate of how much more NVA soldiers Americans would have needed to kill to end the war? Do you know how much more people would have been killed after the war if the outcome was in our favor? I sure as hell can't. That's why bringing numbers into to this is more bull shit than anything else.
One of the main reasons why we went there in the first place was because McCarthy scared the shit out of the American public (sound familiar?), and basically made people believe that if communism doesn't end in Vietnam, then the whole world would become a slave to communism. Of course, this never happened after the war.
[quote]Guns don't kill people, peacenik bullshit does![/quote] People who refuse to fight to defend their family, friends, and country are pussies. I have no qualms saying that. But Vietnam wasn't a war about defending ourselves. After we "lost" Vietnam, they didn't come over and bomb the shit out of us, like we did to them. So pulling out of there wasn't as a horrible decision as you make it out be.
So in the meantime I am currently undecided, a fact for which my Christian friends tell me I am undoubtedly going to hell for. It's okay, you'll probably be able to meet up with your Christian friends once they come down to hell as well.
It's not their place to be judging you. In their religion, God is the only who can pass judgement like that one people.
So you'll be going in hell for not beleiving in the one true God, and they'll be going to hell for putting themselves in God's place. This all of course assuming that Christianity is "right." In reality (and this is where you have it right), we just. Don't. Know. I don't think being undecided is such a bad thing, if you can handle it.
I have been playing EVE for about a year and a half. I really like it.
I played for half a year, and I'm still subscribing. Although, I'm not playing it anymore. I liked it's skill system where I don't have to spend time to advance my player. And I do like the the dynamic nature of the Universe that could effected by players. Other than that, I find Eve to be very boring. PVP combat involves alot of waiting. I think I spend 90% of my time waiting and 10% of my time actually PVP'ing. The PVE activities are boring. Missions suck compared to Quests on WoW. I think the most fun I had in Eve is when I was on a gank squad for the first time. But sitting on gates for hours on end killing defenseless passerbys got boring real fast.
I've got a M1710, I haven't encountered anything in that respect either. Although, I am experiencing occasinal crashes when I play video games (WoW or CS) for more than an hour or two. I think it might be a heating issue.
I can't believe these guys included Quake, and Quake3 without including CS. In the article, they said Quake3 was known as the most competitive game. Q3A at it's peak never even touched the popularity of CS at the CPL and other video game tournaments around the world. The biggest cash prizes were always going to the winning CS team. I'm not sure if it's like that now, but that's how it was from about 2000-2004.
I'm pretty sure when you combine both CS and CS:S, that they have the biggest player base of any non-MMO mulitplayer game by far.
You know, I hear the "you learn how to learn" line all the time when people are talking about college education. It makes sense when given little thought, but really, when do you not learn how to learn? If a college would just focus on teaching you how to be an expert programmer on as many programming languages they could jam down your throat, wouldn't you still learn the processes of learning how to program?
You can say what you will about the benefits of teaching theory over application, but I just think that arguement is bunk.
Seriously, it's just a pyramid scheme that takes advantage of people's unhappiness. The leaders of scientology make bank by brainwashing their followers.
Even if Scientology was a legitimate religion, why is it illegal for someone to interfere with a religion, but it's completely acceptable for religions to interfere with everyone elses lifes.
I just quit after playing Eve-Online for half a year. Yes, all of that stuff you said is actually in the game. If you enjoy those business management games like Rollercoaster Tycoon or whatever, I can see you enjoying that type stuff. However, alot of the diplomacy aspects are broken. I was in a corp/alliance that would make fake corp and Alliance and declare a war on oursleves, this would make it more expensive for other corps to declare war on us. I would say probably half of Eve-online player are in NPC corps to avoid wardecs and to stay out of PVE.
PVP is boring most of the time. You are either just sitting at a gate, or tryign to run from a gatecamp. PVE is horrible. You just repeat the same missions over and over, or you just grind NPC pirates. Combat usually consists of deploying drones, maintaining optimal range, and then press F1-F8. And the game feels really disconnected from the lore/story. The missions really have nothing to do with the stories and articles that they have on their website. Eve has potential to be really awesome game, but to me it's just boring.
I'm sorry but WoW is about ten times more fun then Eve.
Whoever modded this insightful is a huge nintendo fanboy. Not only is nintendogs not innovative, it's not even that fun. I have it and all I ever did is feed some dogs, take them on walks, and throw frisbees. Oooh what a brilliant game!
"Most video game people have read one book and seen one movie in their life, which is 'Lord of the Rings' and 'Aliens' or variations of that. There's great things in that, but you need some variety." No. If anything, it's LOTR and Star Wars. I don't know where he got Aliens from.
That depends. How are you at headshots with an AWP? Please! Every knows that you also need good skills with the ak47 and the colt. Jeez! Schools these days produce nothing but AWP whores.
What boring work do you do that lets you take off 3 months a year? My boring work only gives me 3 weeks! Seriously, I would gladly take a paycut to do a CS type job for only 9 months a year.
Interesting post. MS obviously could have done things better to make their apps more secure. But your original post seems to imply that MS where negligent on purpose in order to get people to pay them to upgrade. There's no evidence of this.
?Microsoft's willful negligence in making their email readers and web browsers insecure has cost consumers hundreds of billions of dollars I'm calling BS on that. First of all, do you have a link/reference to that number? Second of all, you are ignoring how much money businesses have made off of MS's products. I'm sure is alot more than what they lost from security flaws. Third of all: WILLFULL negligence?? You really think they put security flaws into their products on purpose? I've not had to pay a single dime in having to download Microsofts updates to fix their security flaws. How in the world are they exorting me for more money?
Do you think it's easy to make a flawless operating system when so many people are trying to break/hack/exploit it all the time?
Slashdot Mirror
I played both WoW and Eve for extensive periods of time. Eve is really great if you're a hardcore RP'er and want to make your own corporation. Other than that it's a horribly boring game. Eve is ten times more broken then WoW. The T2 market is a mess, invention is worthless, pvp combat involves 90% waiting around doing nothing, major gui bugs, gate queues, boring mission system, I can keep going. If anything it's other way around. You can really see that Blizzard puts in alot more effort in to their game then CCP.
Oh and you want to talk about balancing in Eve? Don't make me link all the "Nerf Amarr", "Boost Minmatar" and all the other threads involving balance between the races.
Each class in WoW is totally unique, with competely different sets of abilities and each require totally different play styles. To make all 9 classes perfectly balanced is asking way too much. However, they are always tweaking the builds and making the balance better. Regardless, every single class is useful in some way.
Your play style in Eve, regardless of ship or situation, is turn on tank-modules/speed boosters, maintain optimum range, hit f1-f8. Yet there are many ships in Eve that are just completely useless. The "priest/healer" type ships are hardly ever seen in combat.
Starcraft III????
What the HELL!?!? Did I just wake up from a coma? Quick, some one tell me where I can buy Starcraft 2!
Ah good point, I almost forgot about officer modules. I guess T2 are more like the "blues" and officer modules are like epics. But really even after playing the game for 6 months, using officer mods just wasn't a viable option for me. They are so rare, so expensive, and with a unforgiving game like Eve, they just weren't worth it. Really, the only people who can afford it are the PVE only types, or the extremely rich types, and the extremely rich types are usually synonymous with T2 blueprint holders.
Yes, just like epics in WoW are only a few percentage points better than blue's, which are only slightly better then greens.
When you are able to fully outfit your ship with T2 equipment, a few percentage points (more like 5%) multiplied by 10-20 ends up being quite significant difference.
That's correct, implants and rigs are the Eve equivilants of "BOE" equipment. However implants/rigs are such a small aspect when calculating your ships overall effectiveness. Implants and rigs are also very small when compared to the whole market. Almost all of WoW's top equipment are BOE's/BOP's that are earned as PVP rewards or as instance drops.
This whole fiasco would have never happened if their method of introducing "epic" level equipment wasn't so horribly broken.
I'll give a basic summary:
Most weapons/equipment/ships in Eve are known as Tech 1 equipment. Tech 1 equipment require the material and Blueprints (sort of like recipes) to make them. Pretty much anyone can get into manufacturing Tech 1 equipment really easily. NPC's sell the blueprints at various stations, for relatively cheap prices.
The elite/uber items in the game are known as Tech 2 items. These ships/equipment are significantly more powerful than their Tech 1 counter parts. A cruiser with T1 equipment can't even be compared to a T2 cruiser with T2 equipment. Now since CCP wanted to keep the prices of these items really high, they decided to implement a lottery system. They made you go through some really complicated process of doing "research missions" (I still don't really know the specifics because people don't want to give away the secrets and lose chances of winning the lottery). Once you've done enough research missions you can put in your bid in for a very small chance of winning a T2 blueprint. Since very few people have these blueprints, you basically have a monopoly over the epic items if you win the blueprint, allowing you to charge friggin' rediculous prices when you sell the items on the market.
Now, all in all this isn't a horrible situation except when you get a powerful Alliance like BoB who have tons of manufactuers/industrialists and the money to back them up. They got in to the T2 market early and was able to by other T2 blueprints from non BOB players because they could offer healthy sums of cash without blinking and eye. Now add the fact that THERE ARE DEVELOPERS playing for BoB who were giving them T2 blueprints for free, the market became fubar'd, and one alliance dominates every fucking aspect of the game. Not cool.
CCP tried to fix things with invention, where you could upgrade T1 blueprints to T2. But it was an even more difficult process and the results was a temporary blue print that would go away after a few uses. It's nothing that could break up the monopoly.
Blizzard really got it right when they introduced "bind on equip" and "bind on pick-up" equipment. It prevented the hardcore players of hording all the "good" items and then selling them for unfair prices. If CCP introduced something similar with blueprints, I think the T2 market wouldn't have been so broken.
I couldn't agree more. Some of my friends can talk hours on end about WoW. It drives me nuts. I can see that they have so much passion for overcoming challenges in their virtual world. It's just sad that there are so many challenges in the real world that are being ignored, but people rather level up their fishing on their paladin.
bah, switching between slashdot and allakhazam is annyoing.
[quote] After they left, communists took power -- [b]and killed far more people than the war.[/b] [/quote]
Link, please.
First of all, Americans where in Vietnam for more than two decades. They had their chance. It's not like the American forces didn't some small window of oppurtunity to end the conflict.
Second, can you give an accurate estimate of how much more NVA soldiers Americans would have needed to kill to end the war? Do you know how much more people would have been killed after the war if the outcome was in our favor? I sure as hell can't. That's why bringing numbers into to this is more bull shit than anything else.
One of the main reasons why we went there in the first place was because McCarthy scared the shit out of the American public (sound familiar?), and basically made people believe that if communism doesn't end in Vietnam, then the whole world would become a slave to communism. Of course, this never happened after the war.
[quote]Guns don't kill people, peacenik bullshit does![/quote]
People who refuse to fight to defend their family, friends, and country are pussies. I have no qualms saying that. But Vietnam wasn't a war about defending ourselves. After we "lost" Vietnam, they didn't come over and bomb the shit out of us, like we did to them. So pulling out of there wasn't as a horrible decision as you make it out be.
It's not their place to be judging you. In their religion, God is the only who can pass judgement like that one people.
So you'll be going in hell for not beleiving in the one true God, and they'll be going to hell for putting themselves in God's place. This all of course assuming that Christianity is "right." In reality (and this is where you have it right), we just. Don't. Know. I don't think being undecided is such a bad thing, if you can handle it.
I have been playing EVE for about a year and a half. I really like it.
I played for half a year, and I'm still subscribing. Although, I'm not playing it anymore. I liked it's skill system where I don't have to spend time to advance my player. And I do like the the dynamic nature of the Universe that could effected by players. Other than that, I find Eve to be very boring. PVP combat involves alot of waiting. I think I spend 90% of my time waiting and 10% of my time actually PVP'ing. The PVE activities are boring. Missions suck compared to Quests on WoW. I think the most fun I had in Eve is when I was on a gank squad for the first time. But sitting on gates for hours on end killing defenseless passerbys got boring real fast.
I've got a M1710, I haven't encountered anything in that respect either. Although, I am experiencing occasinal crashes when I play video games (WoW or CS) for more than an hour or two. I think it might be a heating issue.
I can't believe these guys included Quake, and Quake3 without including CS. In the article, they said Quake3 was known as the most competitive game. Q3A at it's peak never even touched the popularity of CS at the CPL and other video game tournaments around the world. The biggest cash prizes were always going to the winning CS team. I'm not sure if it's like that now, but that's how it was from about 2000-2004.
I'm pretty sure when you combine both CS and CS:S, that they have the biggest player base of any non-MMO mulitplayer game by far.
You know, I hear the "you learn how to learn" line all the time when people are talking about college education. It makes sense when given little thought, but really, when do you not learn how to learn? If a college would just focus on teaching you how to be an expert programmer on as many programming languages they could jam down your throat, wouldn't you still learn the processes of learning how to program?
You can say what you will about the benefits of teaching theory over application, but I just think that arguement is bunk.
Seriously, it's just a pyramid scheme that takes advantage of people's unhappiness. The leaders of scientology make bank by brainwashing their followers.
Even if Scientology was a legitimate religion, why is it illegal for someone to interfere with a religion, but it's completely acceptable for religions to interfere with everyone elses lifes.
Yeah maybe the Earth will correct itself nextime by getting rid of us.
I just quit after playing Eve-Online for half a year. Yes, all of that stuff you said is actually in the game. If you enjoy those business management games like Rollercoaster Tycoon or whatever, I can see you enjoying that type stuff. However, alot of the diplomacy aspects are broken. I was in a corp/alliance that would make fake corp and Alliance and declare a war on oursleves, this would make it more expensive for other corps to declare war on us. I would say probably half of Eve-online player are in NPC corps to avoid wardecs and to stay out of PVE.
PVP is boring most of the time. You are either just sitting at a gate, or tryign to run from a gatecamp. PVE is horrible. You just repeat the same missions over and over, or you just grind NPC pirates. Combat usually consists of deploying drones, maintaining optimal range, and then press F1-F8. And the game feels really disconnected from the lore/story. The missions really have nothing to do with the stories and articles that they have on their website. Eve has potential to be really awesome game, but to me it's just boring.
I'm sorry but WoW is about ten times more fun then Eve.
Whoever modded this insightful is a huge nintendo fanboy. Not only is nintendogs not innovative, it's not even that fun. I have it and all I ever did is feed some dogs, take them on walks, and throw frisbees. Oooh what a brilliant game!
What boring work do you do that lets you take off 3 months a year? My boring work only gives me 3 weeks! Seriously, I would gladly take a paycut to do a CS type job for only 9 months a year.
Interesting post. MS obviously could have done things better to make their apps more secure. But your original post seems to imply that MS where negligent on purpose in order to get people to pay them to upgrade. There's no evidence of this.
Do you think it's easy to make a flawless operating system when so many people are trying to break/hack/exploit it all the time?