true. it's the non-non-admins that will do most of the complaining about spatial nautilus. if a distro provides proper administrations tools, then this should not be a great issue.
however, there will always be the guys that want to see the guts. right-click->browse is still easier than finding resedit for the mac:-)
You raise some good points. PGP can address some of these issues. Additionally, protecting your Wide Avian Network with a good firewall, and using a secure tunnel (Virtual Pigeon Network) when transporting pigeons outside the local network.
As for latency issues, a clever engineer should be able to manipulate the protocol in such a way to reduce round-trips. I would keep all transfers over UDP, not TCP.
I can throw 10,000 DVDs in my trunk, and drive 100km in an hour
How long does it take you to load 10,000 DVDs in your trunk? Not to suggest that you still wouldn't beat the pigeons, but I don't think your time would be as good as you are hoping.
Would that be considered "great bandwidth"?
Yes, but that latency would not be considered so great.
Besides, if they can use 3 pigeons, why not compare it to 3 DSL lines?
You could, or you could compare one pigeon with dial-up. Or you could compare with an 18-wheeler instead of the trunk of your car. Lighten up - this is a great hack! And better than another SCO story.
Although I applaud their efforts, it seems that the data was transferred using M-Systems DOC modules (flash). A far cry from clay tablets. Whatever happened to standards?!
It's been tried on both the Mac and Windows and the conclusion has been almost unanimous
Whose conclusion has been almost unanimous? You never asked me. Please don't call the MS's lame-asses attempt at copying the Mac interface aka Windows 95 "spatial". It is not. In fact, I had trouble swtiching from Win 3.1 to Win95 because MS screwed things up by taking a crufty filesystem, tacking on a couple of layers of recursive abstraction, and then removing the File Manager and replacing it with explorer, which couldn't do either spatial or browser correctly.
The Mac always did this correctly, making the spatial metaphor work because it was consistent (until OS X).
Browser based file navigation is OK as long as it is consistent, but spatial has the advantage of making the filesystem easier to understand. You complain about scalability, but did you use Mac OS 9, where you could "dock" windows as tabs to the bottom of the screen, and navigate using "spring-loaded" folders? I miss that every time I need to use a computer. I was never more efficient at managing my files than I was in those days:-(
The challenge that the gnomers face is using a spatial view on a much more complex filesystem. Hopefully, they pull this off - I can't wait to try the new nautilus to see if they have.
Well, Anonymous Cecil (if that's really what your name is, Darl), we have seen quite a bit of SCO bashing here on/. and on groklaw. We are intelligent, tech savvy people, and we didn't get where we are by not being able to smell a rat.
Lots of groundless lawsuits have been filed by many deceptive (and often intelligent) people. But these schemes don't always work out, expecially when the target is someone as powerful as IBM. SCO has simply underestimated their opponent.
And I have not read these "compelling pro-SCO" posts that you refer to. It also doesn't appear to be PJs style to simply delete differring opinions.
I hope that soon the rest of the world catches on to the notion that "information wants to be free."
Hardware is useless without software, and software is cannot run without hardware, but hardware I can hold in my hand, and I will kick you ass if you try to take my hardware. billg doesn't like this, because he sells software for ridiculous sums of cash.
gates claims hardware will become free (or near-free) with software. this is false - hardware may come free with services, but not with software. This is because you can restrict services, but it is hard to restrict software.
gates is taking advantage of people's misunderstanding (and trust me, most people don't have a clue) of what software is and does. The technological "magic" we have seen in the last half century is not because software hase gotten better, it is because hardware has gotten better and can now run different software - but Bill would like to take the credit for all of this innovation, and have people believe the it is software.
Mr. Gates, if you are reading this, take note - software is a necessary expense associated with selling hardware. to sell hardware, you must provide software to make it useful it is not the other way around. Hardware vendors tolerate you because it is difficult to not use Windows. But the feature set of open source software is growing every day, much faster than Windows. Soon the vendors will be able to switch.
People don't buy a computer to run Windows, they buy it to play games, to write letters, to do their taxes. They want a device that will help them with those things. Hardware, software, services are all parts that make up "The Application", and the application is King (TM).
Somewhere along the way, people got the idea that the application is the software - mostly because the same hardware can be used for many applications because the software enables it. Open source is slowly breaking this paradigm, since there is lots of code available to do things, and it can be used as the foundation for other applications. Smart software vendors have caught on to the fact that to stay alive they must offer services with their software. Microsoft is not a smart software vendor, they are an evil, controlling software vendor.
sorry, didn't mean to rant - i need to cut back on my coffee.
Although this may not be what linux needs right now, it certainly will be.
All of the desktop stuff that you refer to is being worked on. I currently have a linux desktop at home, and my wife and kids use it with no problem. The linux desktop will soon be as good as the Windows or Mac desktop.... then what do we do?
Someone has to be working on The Next Big Thing (TM). Maybe it's not this, but we won't know unless someone works on proof of concept designs.
Microsoft has said repeatedly that they believe that open source is not capable of innovation - only cloning. Well, that is certainly inaccurate, given apache, X, and the whole bloody internet. But it does set a bar higher, to make sure that linux can be more advanced than Windows, and to do that requires experimentation, and if a company like Sun is will ing to pay people to work on that, then so be it - even if their stuff is not open source, at least it is not Microsoft.
Sun has no history of doing _anything_ at all interesting in terms of UI work.
Actually, Sun invested heavily in usability studies that have been used by the Gnomers in developing their HIG and Sun usablility testing directly influence the Gnome 2 release.
Not that disagree with the usability concerns of trying to mirror the real world in computer space, but hopefully we have seen enough bad examples (MS Bob, IBM apps from late nineties) that we can use this kind of technology properly.
Fact 2: Water is for all intensive purposes free for Americans. How much money was made in the last year selling int at $1 per half liter?
Water is free, but having clean tasting water, in a bottle, cold, right here - ah I would pay for that. As I would pay for coffee, which is not free. Would I pay for bad coffee, lukewarm, that I need to go home to get? No, and neither would I pay for Microsoft products.
Fact 3: There is no Fact 3. This Fact makes no sense, just like the rest of this post. So when you think about what you have read remember, there is no Fact 3.
A wookie, you say? On endor! Pardon me, I must agree with you;-)
The only reason I said "will prefer" and not "do prefer" is that people have not causght on yet. They do not know understand that free software is better, because they do not understand software. But looking at IBM, Novell, Apple, Redhat and others, These companies are selling free software - successfully! And sales are growing, along with the services layered on top, and the hardware revenues that are generated by the sales (i.e. the "oh, do you offer linux? let's talk." factor.)
You have just gone to a lot of trouble to confirm what the previous poster said: Microsoft makes an obscene amount of money from selling software alone, profit margins like no other company on earth. And even their non-software reveunue is growing - eventually, Microsoft will need to be able to survive on it alone, because people will prefer free software. The trend is obvious.
All things considered, software is data, and data is hard to control, so to make profits through control you need to sell something else, like hardware or services.
console gamers are just as (brand) loyal as anyone else. that is when, and only when it is in their best interest. sony initially built their market by picking up for sega's faltering, and then by targeting mature gamers whilst nintendo was still aiming at kids. but sony dominated in this generation because they provided compatibility for the ps games, and thereby hooked everyone that already owned a ps, since they did not need to immediately go out and buy games.
the consumers are loyal not to brands themselves, but to the convenience that may come from sticking with a brand.
OK, you get the prize. They are giving away nothing. ATI users bought these cards, and expect decent drivers to go with them. Never mind that this may have not been a wise purchase, given the state of the drivers (buyer beware), but you certainly can't claim that ATI is giving drivers (as if out of the kindness of their hearts...). They are supporting their customers, and based on how well they do that, they will get more customers.
Myself, I own an NVidia card. I'm not happy about the closed source driver situation, but at least my closed-source drivers don't suck. If there was a vendor with decent hardware that did provide open drivers, I would certainly have voted with my dollars.
Here is an interesting GrokLaw post from the man at AutoZone who helped them transition from UnixWare to Linux
not likely UnixWare, more likely OpenServer. But I don't really know, I'm just guessing based on the fact that lots of people use/used OpenServer for POS/inventory, whereas UnixWare is used for, uh, well, what is UnixWare used for anyway?
I thought an autopsy was when you disect something that is already dead to determine the cause of death. If you disect something that is still alive, that would be murder.
Either your images have to be very simple, or you need extremely powerful hardware, or the resolution sucks, or you're going to have to accept low frame rates.
Well, duh! 24x3d images, given that we can do one image now, Moores law would say that the tech should be mainstream in about 7 years. Not that I think Moore's law is correct, but the point is, of course it's computational expensive, if it weren't it wouldn't be innovative. Eventually, processing power will catch up.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm just waiting for the "SCO changes mind, makes up with IBM, GPLs Unixware" story to be released. It's only a matter of time...
true. it's the non-non-admins that will do most of the complaining about spatial nautilus. if a distro provides proper administrations tools, then this should not be a great issue.
:-)
however, there will always be the guys that want to see the guts. right-click->browse is still easier than finding resedit for the mac
You raise some good points. PGP can address some of these issues. Additionally, protecting your Wide Avian Network with a good firewall, and using a secure tunnel (Virtual Pigeon Network) when transporting pigeons outside the local network.
As for latency issues, a clever engineer should be able to manipulate the protocol in such a way to reduce round-trips. I would keep all transfers over UDP, not TCP.
I can throw 10,000 DVDs in my trunk, and drive 100km in an hour
How long does it take you to load 10,000 DVDs in your trunk? Not to suggest that you still wouldn't beat the pigeons, but I don't think your time would be as good as you are hoping.
Would that be considered "great bandwidth"?
Yes, but that latency would not be considered so great.
Besides, if they can use 3 pigeons, why not compare it to 3 DSL lines?
You could, or you could compare one pigeon with dial-up. Or you could compare with an 18-wheeler instead of the trunk of your car.
Lighten up - this is a great hack! And better than another SCO story.
Although I applaud their efforts, it seems that the data was transferred using M-Systems DOC modules (flash). A far cry from clay tablets. Whatever happened to standards?!
It's been tried on both the Mac and Windows and the conclusion has been almost unanimous
:-(
Whose conclusion has been almost unanimous? You never asked me.
Please don't call the MS's lame-asses attempt at copying the Mac interface aka Windows 95 "spatial". It is not. In fact, I had trouble swtiching from Win 3.1 to Win95 because MS screwed things up by taking a crufty filesystem, tacking on a couple of layers of recursive abstraction, and then removing the File Manager and replacing it with explorer, which couldn't do either spatial or browser correctly.
The Mac always did this correctly, making the spatial metaphor work because it was consistent (until OS X).
Browser based file navigation is OK as long as it is consistent, but spatial has the advantage of making the filesystem easier to understand. You complain about scalability, but did you use Mac OS 9, where you could "dock" windows as tabs to the bottom of the screen, and navigate using "spring-loaded" folders? I miss that every time I need to use a computer. I was never more efficient at managing my files than I was in those days
The challenge that the gnomers face is using a spatial view on a much more complex filesystem. Hopefully, they pull this off - I can't wait to try the new nautilus to see if they have.
Well, Anonymous Cecil (if that's really what your name is, Darl), we have seen quite a bit of SCO bashing here on /. and on groklaw. We are intelligent, tech savvy people, and we didn't get where we are by not being able to smell a rat.
Lots of groundless lawsuits have been filed by many deceptive (and often intelligent) people. But these schemes don't always work out, expecially when the target is someone as powerful as IBM. SCO has simply underestimated their opponent.
And I have not read these "compelling pro-SCO" posts that you refer to. It also doesn't appear to be PJs style to simply delete differring opinions.
which is better, vi or emacs? ;-)
I hope that soon the rest of the world catches on to the notion that "information wants to be free."
Hardware is useless without software, and software is cannot run without hardware, but hardware I can hold in my hand, and I will kick you ass if you try to take my hardware. billg doesn't like this, because he sells software for ridiculous sums of cash.
gates claims hardware will become free (or near-free) with software. this is false - hardware may come free with services, but not with software. This is because you can restrict services, but it is hard to restrict software.
gates is taking advantage of people's misunderstanding (and trust me, most people don't have a clue) of what software is and does. The technological "magic" we have seen in the last half century is not because software hase gotten better, it is because hardware has gotten better and can now run different software - but Bill would like to take the credit for all of this innovation, and have people believe the it is software.
Mr. Gates, if you are reading this, take note - software is a necessary expense associated with selling hardware. to sell hardware, you must provide software to make it useful it is not the other way around. Hardware vendors tolerate you because it is difficult to not use Windows. But the feature set of open source software is growing every day, much faster than Windows. Soon the vendors will be able to switch.
People don't buy a computer to run Windows, they buy it to play games, to write letters, to do their taxes. They want a device that will help them with those things. Hardware, software, services are all parts that make up "The Application", and the application is King (TM).
Somewhere along the way, people got the idea that the application is the software - mostly because the same hardware can be used for many applications because the software enables it. Open source is slowly breaking this paradigm, since there is lots of code available to do things, and it can be used as the foundation for other applications. Smart software vendors have caught on to the fact that to stay alive they must offer services with their software. Microsoft is not a smart software vendor, they are an evil, controlling software vendor.
sorry, didn't mean to rant - i need to cut back on my coffee.
Is a pattern of posting on ./:
posting to the current directory?
Although this may not be what linux needs right now, it certainly will be.
... then what do we do?
All of the desktop stuff that you refer to is being worked on. I currently have a linux desktop at home, and my wife and kids use it with no problem. The linux desktop will soon be as good as the Windows or Mac desktop.
Someone has to be working on The Next Big Thing (TM). Maybe it's not this, but we won't know unless someone works on proof of concept designs.
Microsoft has said repeatedly that they believe that open source is not capable of innovation - only cloning. Well, that is certainly inaccurate, given apache, X, and the whole bloody internet. But it does set a bar higher, to make sure that linux can be more advanced than Windows, and to do that requires experimentation, and if a company like Sun is will ing to pay people to work on that, then so be it - even if their stuff is not open source, at least it is not Microsoft.
Sun has no history of doing _anything_ at all interesting in terms of UI work.
Actually, Sun invested heavily in usability studies that have been used by the Gnomers in developing their HIG and Sun usablility testing directly influence the Gnome 2 release.
Not that disagree with the usability concerns of trying to mirror the real world in computer space, but hopefully we have seen enough bad examples (MS Bob, IBM apps from late nineties) that we can use this kind of technology properly.
Fact 1: There is no such thing as a free lunch.
;-)
but there is a "Free" lunch. not "free", "Free"
Fact 2: Water is for all intensive purposes free for Americans. How much money was made in the last year selling int at $1 per half liter?
Water is free, but having clean tasting water, in a bottle, cold, right here - ah I would pay for that. As I would pay for coffee, which is not free. Would I pay for bad coffee, lukewarm, that I need to go home to get? No, and neither would I pay for Microsoft products.
Fact 3: There is no Fact 3. This Fact makes no sense, just like the rest of this post. So when you think about what you have read remember, there is no Fact 3.
A wookie, you say? On endor! Pardon me, I must agree with you
The only reason I said "will prefer" and not "do prefer" is that people have not causght on yet. They do not know understand that free software is better, because they do not understand software. But looking at IBM, Novell, Apple, Redhat and others, These companies are selling free software - successfully! And sales are growing, along with the services layered on top, and the hardware revenues that are generated by the sales (i.e. the "oh, do you offer linux? let's talk." factor.)
You have just gone to a lot of trouble to confirm what the previous poster said: Microsoft makes an obscene amount of money from selling software alone, profit margins like no other company on earth. And even their non-software reveunue is growing - eventually, Microsoft will need to be able to survive on it alone, because people will prefer free software. The trend is obvious.
All things considered, software is data, and data is hard to control, so to make profits through control you need to sell something else, like hardware or services.
Well, I dunno what other OS is using it as it's installer, but it's not debian.
gentoo.
console gamers are just as (brand) loyal as anyone else. that is when, and only when it is in their best interest. sony initially built their market by picking up for sega's faltering, and then by targeting mature gamers whilst nintendo was still aiming at kids. but sony dominated in this generation because they provided compatibility for the ps games, and thereby hooked everyone that already owned a ps, since they did not need to immediately go out and buy games.
the consumers are loyal not to brands themselves, but to the convenience that may come from sticking with a brand.
They are giving away drivers for Linux...
OK, you get the prize. They are giving away nothing. ATI users bought these cards, and expect decent drivers to go with them. Never mind that this may have not been a wise purchase, given the state of the drivers (buyer beware), but you certainly can't claim that ATI is giving drivers (as if out of the kindness of their hearts...). They are supporting their customers, and based on how well they do that, they will get more customers.
Myself, I own an NVidia card. I'm not happy about the closed source driver situation, but at least my closed-source drivers don't suck. If there was a vendor with decent hardware that did provide open drivers, I would certainly have voted with my dollars.
Here is an interesting GrokLaw post from the man at AutoZone who helped them transition from UnixWare to Linux
not likely UnixWare, more likely OpenServer. But I don't really know, I'm just guessing based on the fact that lots of people use/used OpenServer for POS/inventory, whereas UnixWare is used for, uh, well, what is UnixWare used for anyway?
With cory moving from SSI-based pages to the DB-driven MT, it will be interesting to see exactly what happens to performance as his next /.-ing :)
Is that a challenge?
I thought an autopsy was when you disect something that is already dead to determine the cause of death. If you disect something that is still alive, that would be murder.
I guess, unless they _want_ to be eaten...
np. i apologize for calling r2d2 a garbage can and thinking it was funny ;-)
thanks for being a good sport in the face of idiot comments.
hey, i'm just having fun here - how 'bout you?
didn't intend that as flame, but i guess things lose stuff in the translation to plain text.
(sigh, i gotta stop using my kids' expressions when i'm not talking to them...)
Doe anyone else see the irony of an investor oriented site focussing on penny stocks called "lemming investor"?
Either your images have to be very simple, or you need extremely powerful hardware, or the resolution sucks, or you're going to have to accept low frame rates.
Well, duh! 24x3d images, given that we can do one image now, Moores law would say that the tech should be mainstream in about 7 years. Not that I think Moore's law is correct, but the point is, of course it's computational expensive, if it weren't it wouldn't be innovative. Eventually, processing power will catch up.
This is awsome, and in 10/20/30 years they can probably build one small enough to put in the livving room. ... or to attach to a rolling trash can.