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Playstation 3 Already Won the Next Gen Battle?
damyan writes "The BBC are running an article that claims that the Playstation 3 has already won the next-gen battle, since 'The Informa Media Group predicts that Sony will sell more than 30 million PlayStation 3s in Europe by 2010. It puts Microsoft in second place with 10 million sales and Nintendo trailing in third with five million.' If only everyone could see that well into the future."
Actually not as stupid a question as it sounds - the PS2 has an official linux site, and the dev. environment is pretty similar (well, once you use the SPS2 stuff, anyway :-).
:-)
:-))
Given the advances in NUMA architectures in the Linux kernel, and the Cell processor being designed for parallel processing, it actually begins to sound reasonable... I'm sure there'll be developers who hit the metal, but given how fast the thing is supposed to run, I think it's a viable option
Then of course, it'll *really* be a war - closed MS Xbox-2 versus PS3 running Linux
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
I wonder if this is a bunch related to the people who somehow predicted, and convinced, the old head of Nintendo that optical media in video games was 'just a fad' back during the N64 design phase.
"Meanwhile, Nintendo seems set to play to its strengths and emphasise game quality and innovation over processor horsepower."
Seems like most of their games lack the real looking "beauty" that XBox and PS2 games have. Most of Nintendo stuff still looks cartoonish or like Anime on steroids.
Hey, they have their share because people like that but maybe that's why they don't have to worry about raw horsepower?
Until the battle occurs.
I can predict anything. Doesn't make it true.
Cretin - a powerful and flexible CD reencoder
Nintendo is pretty big over seas. Nintedo 64 was a great console. It seems that GameCube flopped because of poor quality games, even things like Mario Kart weren't new and great. I don't think Nintendo will make the same mistake twice.
never fumble and release a crappy update to an existing game system
Atari 5200 anyone? excellent graphics (for early 80s), awful controllers.
Hates new XBox. Hates it!
Without a hard drive, there's even less reason for me to buy the box from Redmond.
I wonder if Microsoft is going to actually start making a profit with the XBox division anytime soon. The XBox 2 does get a head start on the PS3. But I go back to the point: I will not buy an XBox 2.
If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
That the BBC can do what no other human has been able to accomplish. Do you think next they'll be giving out lotto numbers?
...Duke Nukem: Forever has already won game of the year*.
*year to be determined.
Is it just me, or is this kind of hokey?
According to the report, the PS3 is expected to sell 32 million units in Europe by 2010, more than the combined sales of the Microsoft and Nintendo machines.
I mean, seriously, what are these so-called analysts basing that on? The article doesn't say.
Probably, the PS3 will do well, but it seems beyond premature to make up numbers like these without supporting them in any meaningful way.
Or between development and release. Granted, Sony may have the clout, but don't forget there are plenty of ways to mess up when it comes to releasing a new console. The Playstation 2's line up, for example, was pretty weak when released, and if someone makes the rash decision to drop PS1+2 support from the PS3, sales will plummet (though it looks MS may already have made that mistake with X-Box 3 if rumours are to believed.)The Dreamcast, on the other hand, had a very strong line-up, great hardware, but Sega's lack of decent advertising did the console no good. I think this is rather jumping the gun.
What sony does that has really set them apart from Microsoft, is to focus on the game developer. With that in mind, You'll probably see the official PS3 linux, as also the nice SDK's... It's all in the titles that the platofrom runs that makes it successful... Just cuz the XBox has the best hardware hasn't made it the #1...
--alop
Playstation Fights Falling Sales. Granted, it's from July 2003, but still....
PlayStation is dying! No, no, wait. PlayStation will dominate!
No, no, wait....
Everyone in the console biz like myself have known the PS3 has already won the next console cycle for a long time.
But then again very few people outside the console biz believed me when I told them the PS2 had already won before it shipped...
And in other predictions I have determined with a similiar level of scientific accuracy using the same method of bovinefecalius that we'll see:
The Minnesota Vikings will almost win the Superbowl in 2010, but get nuked by a terrorist right before they clench the game.
Manchester United will become a has been team that leases space to danceline competitions to pay for stadium lights.
The New York Yankees won't actually have to play the World Series to win after their payroll exceeds 1 billion dollars to save on wasteful travel costs.
The NHL will fold to be replaced by the CHL and the AHL with the Stanley cup auctioned on Ebay.
As is usually the case, the media are distorting the contents of the original report. The Informa Media Group's actual prediction is that there will be 30 million PS3s in Europe by 2010, plus or minus 2.3. (No, not "2.3 million", not "2.3 thousand", "2.3".)
Leave it up to the BBC to leave out the italicized phrase in their zeal to "sex up" the story. I'm sure the Informa Media Group is very disappointed. Now people are going to get false impressions about how sure the Informa Media Group is about their predictions.
Soooo... Sony's won the next-gen "console wars" before they've even started because they're going to sell a lot of PS3's, er, because, uh... this analyst company... um, says so. Yeah, that's some pretty persuasive arguin'! Seriously, this is the silliest proclamation I've ever seen, based on the thinnest evidence I've ever seen. The conclusion may be reasonable based on some evidence, but unfortunately they don't put any of the evidence in the article. And I'm not convinced Nintendo or Microsoft can't profit while selling "only" 5 and 10 million consoles respectively.
That's the one thing that Sony really has going for it... it's the one reason that I think a lot of people want it. There are a lot of very good games out for the PSX or PS2 that many people don't want to stop playing... I still play PSX games on my PS2, because they're fun, not because they're pretty or anything. If the XBox2 doesn't have this, they're going to lose a lot of customers. People want to upgrade, not have tons of different systems from the same company in their house.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
windows3 was the first really sucessful windows and won them the client os monopoly
IE3 was the first really sucessful IE and won them the Browser Wars
XBOX3 will be the first really sucessful XBOX and win them the console wars???
didnt work with Windows2003, their third server OS release tho, so who knows...
-- never underestimate someone who overestimates himself
"Meanwhile, Nintendo seems set to play to its strengths and emphasise game quality and innovation over processor horsepower."
It's interesting they should say that...the Gamecube's games look consistently better than PS2 games in no small part due to the additional power the Gamecube has over the PS2, and the relative ease of developing games on the Gamecube. Then, the article goes on to say Nintendo emphasizes game quality over power, which they already have plenty of! If this isn't a ringing endorsement for Nintendo, I don't know what is.
This smells of fertilizer.
I think they are makign the mistake of projecting the sales figures of the current console war on the one in the future.
The next X-Box may suck, especially with no hard drive (read me engineers, BAD IDEA) but it is hard to say what will emerge from the vapour and until that point it is best not to open your mouth and later prove yourself a fool.
(/local/home/curiosity)-#who -u|grep thecat|cut -c 44-49|xargs kill -9
I predict that The Informa Media Group will sell fewer reports after this one turns out to be wrong.
Because the thrid World War will begin and the Japan will be defasted by invasion of a superrace of godzilla protesting agains the end of the movie !
Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
Oh wait, there's no illegally maintained monopoly there.. so it can't win!
Silly me..
I think you're dead on, and probably the reason why these "analysts" could make a prediction at all without knowing anything about the hardware. It seems it's a given that any big house can make a respectable console, so they probably assumed Xbox2 and PS3 would be about the same and focused on the differences. My guess is that the biggest difference is in the network of game developers that these companies have been able to develop. Hence, analyst logic:
:)
3 times as many game developers for Sony => 3 times as many consoles sold.
Kind of like the "FreeBSD is dying" statistics
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
that will decide if PS will win or lose.
If it will have a hard, really unbreakable anti-piracy protection, and the competition won't, it will lose.
Too many people depend on pirated games, uncrackable system won't ever surpass crackable ones.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
That 70% of all statistics are just made up on the spot.
That's right, because everyone here will buy a copy to play with the grandkids when they come over. Right?
If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
I think you mistyped. are there any xbox 3 rummors?
Nintendo is going to win the 9th generation! And my pet seamonkeys will win the one after that!
Sorry, I just wanted to indulge in random and useless speculation like the authors of the article.
I'm done now, so I guess I'll go play Zelda.
Philip Sandifer's academic website
Microsoft seems to have made decent inroads, doubling Ninendo's market share. I know they have the marketing bucks, but my question is why would anyone buy an xBox instead of a PS? PS has more games and better overall quality and reliability.
This is how I hear it from my nephew, the hardcore gamer anyway. I like to play games, but this kid spends 8 hours a day gaming it up on the PC and PS2. The consensus among his set is that the xBox is not even a consideration ...
It occurs to me that if I ever managed to sell 10, 5 or even 1 million of anything, I'd consider myself pretty damn successful.
Interesting times, I guess...
Im still a hardcore nintendo fan, Nintendo does the best games, Zelda, Mario, etc.
And now, after the Squaresoft Enix merge Nintendo will hopefully get the Final Fantasy games where they belong; on a Nintendo Machine.
Lets all hope that Nintendo kicks some serius ass this time.
Only reason i bought an X-box was that is was able play DVDs and you could install Linux on it,
I never once purchased a game for that box.
And I never really liked the PS2 hardware, or any of the games.
Go Nintendo!
When is the PS3 supposed to be released, anyway? Last I heard it was supposed to be ready for X-mas 2004, but I have heard about other things since then.
Anyway... I don't understand why these type of predictions make news. Remember a couple of years ago when they said the US would have a budget surplus of billions by now? The media doesn't... but I sure do. Anything can happen in that period of time... direct interpolation of the numbers doesn't mean anything. If Sony botches the PS3 they could lose everything... of course based on the direction the Xbox2 is going, they could be out of existance just as easily.
Microsoft might be gone by then... really! Who knows.
Why don't you embrace your slashbotness instead of living in a dreamworld?
It is really stretching to say that Sony has won the next gen battle. Think about it. Sega had the best base w/ Genisis. Nintendo had the league won with SNES. But then sony came out w/ Playstation. Took the lead away based on best games and platform. And that platform is ALWAYS changing. I don't believe console gamers have brand loyalty.
Last time I checked it was the best platform for online console games. With everything moving to broadband, I think the established network will be a giant foothold into the market that Sony will have to work hard to match. Microsoft and Sony have almpost the same hardware, the battle will be won with exclusive titles and features.
Most of us are assuming that the PS3 will be backwards compatible with the PS2, if not still the PS1.
I'm hoping that Nintendo makes the Gamecube 2 compatible with the Gamecube, but there's been no comment on that.
But the Xbox 2 is looking more and more like it will not be backwards compatible with the Xbox 1, and I'm thinking that might be a huge mistake on Microsoft's part.
It usually takes about 12 months for A list titles to appear on any new console. MS was at least smart enough to put Halo on its release titles, which was a good move, but after that it still took some time for another major "must have" exclusive title.
So if the Xbox 2 isn't backwards compatible, I have the feeling that it will be a harder sell. I have all three systems, and some Xbox games I haven't gotten around to yet (Ninja Gaiden is certain a hard-as-nails blast, though). But if I can't play those games on a new Xbox 2, I'll probably just wait 12 months or so until the price dies down.
If the other two systems (GC2 and PS3) are backwards, then it will be a simple pickup. Old system gets sold on eBay, and new system plays maybe 1 new game for it, and all my old games are still valid.
I don't mind have 3 consoles - but I think 4 is just too many, espeically when 2 of them are by the same manufacturer.
I know - "But in the past we didn't care - look at the SNES to N64, or N64 to Gamecube!". Yes, that's true - but we had only 2 consoles really on the market at a time. Now we have 3, and that actually makes a hell of a difference. And now that Sony has pretty much got us used to backwards compatibility, I think that most buyers (especially their parents who don't want to see $200 in old games unplayed by their children because they 'don't work on the new system") now expect that backwards compatibility.
I could be wrong - it's been known to happen. But that's my opinion.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
Dewey defeats Truman!
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
I for one, was sure the Phantom was going to win.
People think a bank might be financially shaky. Consequence: People start to withdraw their money. Result: Pretty soon, it is financially shaky. "Everything in this world...operates not on reality - But the perception of reality."
The person didn't give me the number to call for the fedex, or the exact steps to get the issue resolved. After all that, I called fedex, which went very smoothly and was very helpful. Compared to Sony, MS is pathetic. I wouldn't voluntarily buy anything from Microsoft, unless it happen to be part of the system, or I have to use it for work and I can count it as an expense. I really don't care for XBox and ever plan on buying one. I do plan on buying a PS3, when it comes out.
I think the issue of backwards compatibility is going to give Sony a huge advantage. In the case of the PS2, the compatibility with PS1 cames gave it a big headstart in terms of supported titles. Given that Microsoft is going to find it hard to maintain compatibility with the Xbox 1, (see article) , Sony should press that advantage for all its worth. It makes the consumer feel like they're getting the most bang for the buck when their shiny new toy works with old games as well as new games.
Hopefully when they release the Playstation 3 it will drive down the cost of Playstation 2 + games (hey I can dream can't I?)
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
As Chris Berman says, that's why they play the games.
One thing I noticed when living in Europe for a while is that people generally didn't give X-box too much of a chance, and Gamecube was very much behind that. Sony must have done a really really good job with the Playstation, because their name recognition was far beyond anyone elses. If one so much as mentioned a gaming console, people would assume it's a Playstation. It's kind of surprising when one considers that Nintendo still has dominance over the handheld market there, yet is very far behind with the GC.
This really isn't that far out a prediction, given that the current console battle was won by Playstation 2 despite that fact that it was (IMHO) the weakest of the three.
Basically I see Microsoft as being the one with something to lose. Nintendo is by all accounts quite happy to sell fewer than the rest of them but turn a tidy profit doing so, while putting out the high quality first-party games they've always done. Of course, the fact that they're still killing in the handheld market probably helps the bottom line...
I guess they're just getting the jump on the innevitable number skip they'll have to make to get their sequel number as high as the Playstation's
The real story here is that reading a crystal ball = = slashdot news. :-(
Omnis amans amens
Where the shit do they get that from?
Double Dash is a lot of fun two player. Granted the battle mode isn't as good but just racing with friends is a lot of fun.
Smash Bros. Melee is a ton better than the original. More characters, better boards, more items, the game runs smoother, etc.
I love Mario Golf, I've enjoyed this one a lot more than the original.
And also the GameCube isn't flopping. In fact it's beating the X-box and selling very well right now. Just look at the sales records.
"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
I think that the marketing of their games is going to be a bigger deal next time around.
After all, at this next E3 Nintendo said it will be showing the new console. That is an interesting statement from a company like Nintendo that is not that interested in change.
I believe the next console war will seriously be over on-line play. It has already started, and Nintendo now knows that, and it can't be so insane that it doesn't understand it.
Show a little respect. Nintendo can't purchase Viacom or DirecTV on a whim like Sony and Microsoft can, so for a game company that JUST MAKES GAMES, they're still holding up. Pretty respectable considering that they are going up against the cash cows of all media.
I know I'll buy a Nintendo. The games play well. Microsoft has spent too much money on games like Halo, that I have already played before. Playstation spends money on games that I have no urge to play whatsoever.
doesn't matter folks. the whole industry is stagnant and going nowhere. you will all bear witness to the great video game crash. you've been warned
Vision of Playstation 5
Net sa best, mar it koe minder
"Microsoft seems to have made decent inroads, doubling Ninendo's market share."
I don't see how 10 million units shipping is double 11 million units shipped. Even if you're talking about North America, it's about 5 million to 5 million units. There is no market where Microsoft has doubled Nintendo's market share. Not even close.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
PS3, 32M est european sales by 2010
XB2, 10M est european sales by 2010
GC2, Oblivion, except in Japan
Phantom Gaming Console, 55m est vaporware sales by 2010.
MS is going to skip the number 2 so they can claim parity with the Playstation. Just like Windows NT 1.0 was marketed as Windows NT 3.1 ;)
(for the humor impaired, that was sarcasm)
This whole thing reeks of monkey poo if you ask me.
"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
Writers of articles like this should be shot on site. OOH OOH ps3 iz gunna w1nz0r!!11 Microsoft will be their biggest rival because they're so great and huge. Nintendo sucks because they have an actual philosophy!!
Tripe.
When you look at the state of the world, how can you not become a radical, liberal anarchist?
Actually, IBM is the winner of the nextgen video game consoles. IBM designs the Cell chip together with Sony. A 64 Bit powerpc will power the XBOX 2. And last but not least, IBM will produce the CPU for the gamecube successor.
Just like you got a PS2 to play your games, i got an xbox to play mine.
:)
Plus i have 110" projection screen that looks like utter crap on a PS2 and beatifull as can be on an Xbox. Especially in 720p, 480p and 1080i.
Fact of the matter is Sony's console sucks ass and all you fan boys are trying to justify something that is sitting around collecting dust with more FUD
har har har
But the PS3 is supposed to be backwards compatible with PS and PS2 games while the XBox won't?
That sells me
*DrugCheese rants*
You've got to pay for the "... boring cut scenes and an annoying whirr whirr whirr after you beat a boss."
Stupid sexy Flanders.
...and it's the only reason I like the PS2 ... I can still play Intelligent Qube, decent light gun games, Puzzle Fighter, and Crash Bash ... to me the only games that have EVER met or superceded the gameplay in Tetris.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
At the rate alot of consoles are going, pushing to have something out for that long seems like wishfull thinking to me. I have a feeling the PS4 will be out the door by then...
<end/>
At last count, the X-Box still sucks and there's still more worthy games on the Gamecube. I guess if you like shooters, the X-Box wins there. It also has Ninja Gaiden, an amazing game. But, other than that I still can't find any compelling reasons to own one other than to hack it.
I own as many Gamecube games as I own PS2 games. What it lacks in quantity it more than makes up for in quality, IMO.
I think the next gen of systems, when the battlegrounds are evened out and all systems can maximize the graphics potential of HDTV's, all systems support 5.1, and all systems are optimised and ready (out of the box) for online play, then things will be evened out. Microsoft's main advantage now is online play and HDTV support. Next gen, that will be gone. PS2 will still have the backing of major publishers and Nintendo will still be the powerhouse of the game development world. Microsoft better have a plan, or it's gonna be in distant 3rd real quick...
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
And how is it possible to predict how a console SELLS even before it's completed? You can make accurate predictions on the visual groundbreakings that will be made due to a more powerful engine, but to predict consumer patterns six years into the future on consoles that don't yet exist is bogus.
Sony have puported that they have 30M (or more) PS2 consoles out there in the wild. However, they are notorious for producing low cost - and cheap - devices. I can recall, personally, having 3 walkmans back in the 80s. Mainly because the old one failed and, for some unknown reason, I liked walkmans. I have known, from personal experience in the Games Industry, that PS2s are somewhat unreliable. The machines seems to barely last a year. My question is: Of those 30M units, how many are replacements for systems that died outside of warranty (or were fried in the process of being chipped)? I would guess at least 10M.
The X-Box is not currently and will never do well there because Japan is essentially a closed market, even though they claim not to be. The X-Box, for instance, was pulled from almost every major retailer because all of the units were "scratching the DVDs." So the Sony and the Nintendo products, being home-grown, will sell better there.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
is that most predictions will be wrong
That a lot of these sales are people who have to buy a second or third PS2? Becase the preceeding ones crapped out within a monh and a half?
I only watch FOX News exactly because of all this biased lefty news. Nope I only watch the fair and balanced network and I only read the unbiased articles from Anne Coulter.
Developers have Microsoft Dev systems NOW. Microsoft has announced the hardware specs to all developers of the console, including amazing hardware details that nobody has revealed in public, not rumours, developers *know* what this system is going to be capable of and have dev kit either in hand on in the mail. Sony... well they have a product name and no announced dates and no dev kit. But I'm sure the BBC will be there to hype them when the PS3 finally arrives.
This kind of garbage should reflect poorly on the BBC, it let's the world know what has become of this "news" organization.
I don't know what the grand parent was talking about. 'Darkness' is a subjective quality that is used, not to cover up bad graphics, but for style. Making something dark is hard, because things still have to be visible, you can't just turn down the brightness. You have to make things seem dark, when most of the scene is actually very well lit.
Sig removed because it was obnoxious
LOL! I love this kind of prognostication. So emphatic and decisive in their numbers, and such. Sounds to me like they are playing the "Emperor's New Clothes" with their master. LOL!!!!
The Informa Media Group predicts that Sony will sell more than 30 million PlayStation 3s in Europe by 2010
CLEARLY the Informa Media Group is wildly misinformed about the future. If they had ANY skills at predicting the future, it would be obvious to them that the console wars will be won by the Eastern Airlines GameBox! Eastern Airlines! Where world domination is only part of our master plan!
C'mon...what a bunch of idiots. They are predicting the European sales in six years (!!) of a product that hasn't been invented yet?! Where can I get a job like that?
HAHAH! MS > Nintendo, give me a break. No fucking way that will ever happen...damn.
hi
Its the year 2020 and I'm still awaiting my Phantom system I preordered in 2004. If we have this long of a wait it must be good.
Why are the stupid people that makes these predictions allowed to live?
TCPA, DMCA, IP-law IPv6.... oh yes, you can draw an exponential curve, extrapolating the current numbers, without taking notice about those things...
Evolution of Language Through The Ages: 6000 BC : ungh, grrf, booga 2000 AD : grep, awk, sed
You youngsters don't remember the previous two total collapses of the console market, do you ?
On what planet was their cartridges cheaper than injection molded, then stamped, CDs? Coming out at roughly 42cents a pop at the time.
Anonymous Cowards - Oh God, How I hate you
All three consoles can and will have very powerful technology, but I think the article is too optimistic and only tries to be "buzzword compliant" when talking about games having motion sensing and voice recognition integrated and the Internet being the "battleground".
These technologies are still at their early years, and making a game with those features increases the difficulty of developing it to a completely new level, as if fragment shaders, 3d audio, physics, and AI wouldn't be enough of a headache. Some current games already started to include voice recognition and motion sensing features in some way, but talking about the videogame industry leaning itself to that I don't think so.
Regarding the Internet, it's indeed an incredible tool and makes wonders with some games, but contrary to what some people might think, I don't believe it's still profitable or even really reliable to do globally, Microsoft's approach to Xbox Live seems to be right, but they're still bleeding a lot of money, so I wouldn't expect the online component to be a reliable revenue stream anytime soon.
Think about it, even Sony with 70 million consoles out there is still skeptical an cautious about online gaming and Xbox Live suscribers don't even amount to 10% of MS' global installed base. Then Nintendo is still battling with MS for second place (the usual "we are, you're not" from both sides), even though they put online gaming as a very low priority.
That said, maybe when these consoles start reaching the end of their respective life cycles, these kind of technologies will be more mature and then we can start to think on having a strong shift towards new ways of interaction into the next decade.
If the current generation serves as an example, the remainder of the decade we'll still be getting remakes and rehashes of old games, and innovation will take a backseat to the ever-increasing economic pressure on the market.
Also, writing off Nintendo as the distant third place was also not very smart to do. Big N's policies may not be attractive to us gamers, but do remember this is still a business and Nintendo is the only company able to sustain a healthy profit every generation, and their current strategies with regards to pricing seem to signal a very important price point which only them have been able to attain. As with the iPod Mini, sometimes the price point is the single most important thing for success, and most of the time this market is not driven by cutting-edge technology.
- Otaku no naka no otaku, otaking da!!!
I've been pretty loyal to Nintendo for some time now. Then again, it's mostly because I like their games better.
:/
Final Fantasy feels like it's become more FMV than game ever since they went to the Playstation
Hell, I'd rather watch FF: Spirits Within. At least that was supposed to be a movie instead of a game!
If you'll excuse me, I think I'll go back to rescuing Rosa now, or maybe back to avenging the destruction of Doma... Yes, Doma I think. Those damned Imperial troops will pay dearly for poisoning Cyan's family! Not to mention Kefka, but his demise will take me longer...
"Mission Accomplished".
It's impossible to tell what's gonig to happen for the next generation, because I'm guessing that the next gen console's are going to be more concept-type devices than the predecessors.
It's looking more and more like Sony is going to do the all-in-one type box. Will they be able to maintain their current market share? What about backwards compatibility? (PS2 compatibility is expected). With the launch titles give enough bang for the buck to get a quick launch? (I actually say no. They're going to stall coming out of the gate).
Microsoft looks to be playing it safe, moving from the HD based system to a more unhackable flash-memory type system. What will this do to sales? As well, MS faces the same problem. What about launch games. They had Halo for the X-Box (Without Halo, the X-Box may have been another N-Gage...)
As for Nintendo..well..they're the wild card..arn't they? What the hell are they planning..everything to speak is in riddles and doublespeak.
My best guess, is that the DS technology is some sort of affordable touch-pad. And they'll use that in their next system, in the controllers.
At worst, you'd be able to see additional information, maps without switching screens. As well, doing basic inventory management, things such as that.
At best? If their next system had the horsepower to feed out a 3d signal to the controller. Imagine being able to look down at your controller, playing Zelda for example, and seeing an overhead view of all the action around you? Or checking out what is behind you in a FPS.
Something like that would be revolutionary if it caught on. Personally, I think that if it's affordable, it's a great idea.
BTW, same problem for Nintendo. They had a bad launch for the GC and that hurt them. They need to launch with some big games right out.
I have to wonder if this is acutally going to be in the PS3 or if it's just one of Sony's extravagant claims that won't be fulfilled (ala Toy Story level graphics on a console).
On the PS2, PSOne backwards compatibility was easy because the sound processor (I believe) was the same processor as the PSOne. However, since the PS3 plans to use a cluster of Cell processors for everything (the Cell processors which are completely different than either of the previous two processors), it seems like they would actually have to emulate the PS2 and PSOne. How well will this run?
BBC is expecting to be threatened with a lawsuit for neglecting to mention the Phantom Gaming Console.
Lets save the predictions until AFTER Doom3 for Xbox ships. If the title is anywhere near spectacular, it and Halo2 could blow Xbox sales way past expectations....
1,000,000 / 100 - 9,000
10000.00-9000 = 1,000$
If I could find a bank that would send you that many pennies for 500$ over the cost of the pennies I would consider that a sucsess.
But, in that case your not selling something your providing a service. Selling something at a profit of say 1cent per item yealds 10grand for a million items. Not bad for 2 months worth of work. Though it's not exactly weath.
I agree with you that his point was not properly considerd though. Then again he may or may not have been considering that a lifetime goal.
People definitely "like that." :)
I'll gladly take the Nintendo style graphics over the recent PC, XBox, or PS2 graphics *any* day. The problem is, the latter are all focusing on making "realistic" looking games. First off, if you're aiming for realism, even the tiniest failure to do so breaks the suspension of disbelief and ruins the entire experience. Second, realism isn't all that interesting - if you want real, get off your ass and go outside.
The "anime" look most Nintendo games has is much more friendly of a visual medium given that what you're playing is in fact a game. Take Zelda: Wind Waker, for example. There is not a single graphical style that could have been better suited to that game. The graphics didn't "get in the way," I didn't keep noticing how "hey that doesn't look right" (like I do in any game that *attempts* to look real), and the style actually allowed quite a few things that realism simply can't do (the wind blowing, for example).
The cartoon style is just much better suited to a real game. Leave the attempted-realism to movies, which draw you in base on sensory input. Games are driven by interaction, and the graphics should be those best suited to facilitate that play. If the entire game is based solely on running about shooting things, then maybe realism is a good thing, since that's the only thing the game can offer you that the original Quake doesn't.
Whore
It seems interesting that so many of these issues (OSs, vendors, and so on) are setup as win/lose, especially when some of the "losers" end up doing pretty well. For example, Apple is not the most widely used personal computer, but they continue to survive, innovate, and even turn a profit. Likewise, it seems odd to call Nintendo a "loser" because they sell "only 5 million" units.
Someday a Slashdot ID of 177180 will mean something.
This is well informed! It's a good thing marketing doesn't have anything to do with the console system. Numbers speak more than talent or anything anyhow.. hell look at playstation, that only had what a meg of ram and the games were horrible... final fantasy, dragon warrior.....
good thing neither are even MADE yet either..... these guys should do stock tips
Liquid Gaming - Your daily dose of gaming news
Using the increased storage space means increased development costs. It's also supply and demand. People are more willing to pay $50 for a game than $10 a movie and see 5 movies.
Well obviously, they failed to account for the millions of units the Phantom will sell. I don't think their numbers are very accurate...
Who, Me? Sarcastic?
Kurdt
I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
This article has absolutley no substance, objectivity, or reasons to back it up. This is nothing more than someone's opinion. Please don't hype stuff like this.
. . . Infinium is, no doubt, already planning a legal strategy to sue the BBC for not even placing the Phantom on the list.
ah, the law of Uniformitarianism
"The future will be exactly the same as the past"
or something...
A blog I run for the wealth
"CD/DVD production costs are an order of magnitude less than tooling a line to print ROM boards, ad printing them."
Yet the price of the game is still the same if not higher.
The price for new games has pretty much held steady at $50 for about twenty years or so. May not look like a drop, but it's totally ignoring inflation.
Also, the price of old CD/DVD games is consistetly lower than cart games - $20 is pretty much standard for an old game on CD/DVD ("Greatest Hits", etc.) while cart games rarely dropped below $40. This is pretty much directly attributable to the lower production costs.
will be box, or some other unknown.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
This is really sad, but I'm hoping that these horribly made up numbers only include Europe, mainly because Nintendo doesn't care about them.
They've anounced they're pulling the HD in the Xbox2. I guess they didn't like anyone reprograming their Xbox to do anything other than being an Xbox.
This article talks about Europe specifically, which is one region of the world that has never, in the history of electronic games, mattered.
It was a group of idiots. They were already throwing marketshare overboard when Word took over. As many people have noted, WP 5.1 was the pinnacle of all wordprocessing, after that they tried various disasterous things with GUI's. It was pretty easy for Word to blow by them.
I think there's a slim possibility they could make a comeback, but it's pretty hard being sqeezed between Word and OpenOffice.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
... I guess this is good enough for the weekly "nintendo is dying" fix. I guess I can get back to my life now, and maybe some Metroid Prime.
It's sad when choosing an installation directory on your own qualifies you as an "advanced user."
I play all the games from the original PS1 with my kids. We like them for how they play not how fancy the graphics are.
In fact, it is interesting how the newer games sometimes don't translate into a good game *because* there is too much use of features not attuned to gameplay. Tempest is the best example that comes to mind - some of the Tempest 2000 games had too many effects to even see what you were doing.
Also, games like Aliens (on the Atari) were soo much better than even the PC counterparts. I don't know why but the Atari Jaguar version of Aliens really freaked me out with atmosphere that no other version has matched.
Happy gaming!
~Gildas
You don't buy a 128 meg card of already taken pictures, do you? Cartridges are ROMs, there's no way to rewrite them with other games. Preloading the whole game into RAM is a good idea but even without cutscenes you're looking at around 512 MB just for loaded data of a modern game, so the best course of action to keep loadtimes small is probably streaming in the next section of gameplay while you play.
..THE PHANTOM!
Muhahahahahahahha!
It's actually a 487Mhz PPC. The real keys are that clock-for-clock the PPC is better than the EE (MIPS R5900 as you mention), the CPU cache is much bigger (256k) on the PPC than the EE (8k), the system bus bandwidth is lower - EE is 128bit but only 150Mhz and RDRAM has a long setup time vs the 1T-SRAM used with the PPC - and core floating point performence is much better on the PPC than the EE (eg. physics, AI).
Most PS2 games are EE-limited. The VUs are great for medium (eg. skinning) and low (eg. transform, clipping, lighting) level vertex processing but that's only a relatively small piece of the total work done by a modern game. They have so little integer and flow control support that you can't do much higher level work on them even if you wanted to deal with writing such things in dual-issue microcode.
Graham
The next day Nintendo released a press release and sales figures showing it blew away the XBox in yearly sales AND worldwide sales. That they nearly sold out during the XMas season, and that their installed base was more than anticipated.
The BBC has been pumping hype into the XBox and PS as far as I can remember, and posting lame nonsense about Nintendo ever since.
If you don't like a system, fine, dont play it. But dont use your powers in the media to falsly post lies about a company to think the sky is falling, when in fact, its a bright and sunny day.
that the Atari Jaguar 2 will be revived and released next year but with the controller including an entire QWERTY keyboard and trackball at the bottom of the controller and that it has already won the next console wars. Analysts just crack me up.
Who else will give me my doses of Mario, Zelda/Link and (now) Sonic? Of course, I don't have any consoles (aside from a non-working NES), but Nintendo is the only one I will consider.
Japanese gamers are loyal to Japanese consoles. They will never support the Xbox unless it is exceedingly better by many miles. Americans can do their part by not buying PS2 and only buying Xbox in support of M$... but that's just a sick thing to do.
Unless a console can capture the Japanese market, there is no way in hell it'll be competitive with PS2/PS3/PS4.
If you buy the PS/2 Dev kit, you can turn your console into a linux workstation and start writing easily in a familiar environment. We make this available to everyone, and lots of cool stuff with just appear as people get to try out their own ideas. At least that's the theory.
In practice, the barrier to development is HIGH. There are no high level libraries, and the amount you have to learn about the box to do anything with it is far to high to get anything useful done on a nights and weekends basis.
You buy the kit, it's neat to have RedHat 5.x, it can really run X Windows and Emacs and everything (though kinda slow).
But when you try to build anything you just hit a wall. The documenation is poor (probably better in Japanese) and confusing. The build process is complex, since there are custom languages for the two vector units (which are NOT identical and interchangable), and the main processor is not fast enough to do much real time work by itself.
The video and audio outputs are custom and can't be accessed though any standard mechanism (like OpenGL).
After spending about a month of spare time, digging through docs, reading things online and generally fiddling with pieces until they seem to work, you manage to add 1 and 1 on a vector processor, then get the result back and display it on the console. And you're proud. If you do keep goingand build a real game you can only distribute it to other people that have bought development kits, unless you get a real licensing deal with Sony. That means big money, big business, small/simple games need not apply and don't even consider trying to distribute for free.
What this high barrier to entry means is that the strengths of open source aren't really there, because very few programmers can really use the environment, and few others can even read the code that first set wrote. There isn't much sharing, and not much that's fun to play comes out of it.
plus-good, double-plus-good
I suppose it's just trendy to bash Nintendo right now, even if the arguments for doing it can be easily ripped apart
Look, Nintendo is on the comeback right now. They are starting to pull well ahead of Xbox, and they have some of the best consle games around right now. THe only thing they are lacking in is FPS right now, and that has long been the domain of the PC. If you don't want to frag your buddies online, and not everyone does, the Gamecube is the system to have. Don't count Nintendo out just yet, BBC. I'm sure the PS3 will be cool, but to claim a winner before even the earilest hardware previews is pretty stupid.
SAILING MISHAP
"The report suggests they could be on sale until the end of the decade." Wow, that's a long time!
The only thing that is yours, is your soul; everything else is borrowed.
What we really need is data, not anecdotes.
But I don't have any, so let me offer a factor you aren't considering. Software sales and the effect on developers. My theory is that if we had the data, it would show us that there was less of a drop in PS1 software titles around the PS2 release as compared to N64 software around the GameCube release, or SNES titles around the N64 release. For a single data point, I know that when my friend bought a shiny new PS2 and there were not yet many PS2 games, he continued to buy the latest, coolest PS1 games to play on it.
I think this would be a huge consideration to a Software developer. If I were a developer and was choosing today between developing my next game for XBox or PS2, and my game won't be done until about the time the neXtBox and PS3 make the earlier consoles obsolete, backwards-compatibility would be a big reason to develop for the PS2.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
One of the reasons the Supreme Court cited to block the Florida recounts was that they might produce a result where Bush was not the winner.
BullShit.
Everyone knows that it's not until the Playstation 5 comes out that Sony finally emerges victorious.
I really couldn't care less about future consoles. I already have the best gaming platform under my desk. Sure it's not the cheapest or easiest to set up but it is far superior in every other way. PC systems have the best graphics, the broadest tapestry of game types, don't require me to pay a hardware license fee on each title, develpment tools are available for free, even some games are available for free, the best Internet gaming experience, broadest choice of interface devices, deeper and more engaging simulations. I have made the decision there is no reason for me to ever buy another console because the ones I have bought in the past mostly collected dust while I played games on my PC. I actually enjoy building the PC itself and trying to tweak the highest frame rate I can out of it. There is a Hot Rod mentality to it and you can totally customize your rig. My system is a unique expresion of me. And obviously the PC is a multi purpose device that can be used for many tasks besides just gaming. I think the game industry would like everyone on consoles it homogenizes the hardware which makes development easier but it also creates a barrier of entry for competition that does not exist on the PC, in some sense I think it is about control for the big game developers and console hardware makers. And fundamentally I reject that type of control.
The XBox is, if release dates are kept, a 4-year system; generally the sign of a system that has failed. There's evidence of no hard drive or backward compatibility in XBox2, and they can't target the same audience because being a year old when the PS3 comes out they won't be the newest, most powerful thing on the block (a big selling point for the XBox) so they'll have to break into the console market all over again. Well they've done it once, they can do it again; they won't get a big piece of the pie that way, of course.
The general XBox owner, near as I can tell, is disatisfied. Among problems, Sony offers a free online plan whereas you have to pay for XBox Live (and a few /.ers have complained about MS billing them after they opted out). The games have been unremarkable; almost entirely ports from other systems, and the few that arent usually get ported to other systems quickly enough. I've known people who've used the XBox for emmulating or Linux, but the "inferior PC" stigma really seems to hang over the "legitimate" uses of the console.
The Playstation 2 has been doing well enough, in all honesty. Fine online plan. Solid selection in all categories due to strongest third party support. Even on the heavily PS2-oriented GameFAQs, however, they were denied GotY two years in a row just recently. However, many claim that games earlier to lauch, such as FFX, remain the driving force of the system.
GameCube I find hard to judge. Nintendo had nearly as much ice to break as Microsoft coming into this; recovering from a failed system is something that simply has not happened before. On the other hand, popularity seems to be spiking recently, not just for Christmas, but sales were up dramatically in the month of January as well. It's possible that the surge in popularity is due to the presence of a Final Fantasy title. The problem I have in calling the GC, is that I'd really need to gauge public opinion of the console at the end of its life, and I have no idea where it will end up; by many accounts we're only half way through the life of the console (2001-2007 expected) and this is the year, now that the three big franchises are out, when Nintendo is supposed to put out new, innovative titles (which could either bomb or take off) instead of rehashed franchises. I seriously question anyone who tries to call Nintendo at all this early.
In defense of the above above poster, games on cartridges are cheaper and faster to develop. Near instantaneous access to data is assured, and because of this less time needs to be spent carefully crafting and streaming data, debugging the data stream, etc, etc. Personally, I would love a system that used an optical / cartridge hybrid, as this would allow for the startup screen, character models, and textures to be stored and accessed instantaneously, and less frequently used data (a particular boss' sound effects, for example) to be streamed as usual. Plus, developers wouldn't be required to use the cartridge portion, so that if the game doesn't justify the risk you can have one without the other.
Could you imagine how many players would flock to a system where you could turn it on and be immediately in the game?
The ______ Agenda
...well, as many people have said, I believe that it's simply much to early to tell who will win the next console war. If I had to bet on somebody, I'd probably pick Sony, but it is really easy to screw up a console, especially during the critical launch period.
Will the PS3 be around in 2010? I think so. Historically, it's been about 5 years in between consoles, so if the PS3 comes out in 2005, the PS4 will probably come out sometime around 2010. The PS3 is rumored to launch in 2006 (a bit late, if you ask me) so that just increases the likelihood of it being around in 2010. And even if PS4 came out in 2009, it's not like the PS3 would dissapear instantly, you know.
I thought that the ballots were recounted by hand after the fiasco ended... and Bush would have one by counting the way Gore wanted by a couple votes... whatever... as long as PS3 runs linux, all that won't matter anymore
But, gamers are getting smarter and more tuned in to what makes a system good
I appologize if this seems OT, This rant has been building up for a while.
Gamers are getting stupid. The average gamer these days is hardly a 'gamer' by the traditional definition. Video games become more mainstream, but Gamers don't. I cede you that when talking about system sales we can assume that the average 'gamer' these days will see the better specs as the better system. I disagree, however, that this is a result of "gamers getting smarter".
The average gamer is the kind of guy that walks into compUSA and thinks they're really going to notice a difference upgrading their 3ghz proc. to 3.3ghz.
The gaming subculture is still thriving, if that is what you were refering to. I still have gamer friends that I can play P&P RPGs with. I have friends that I can compare MUD stories with. I have friends that don't own a console or processor above 1ghz and are the most avid gamers in the world!
I guess my point is please don't write off the "gamers" as the people who go around arguing over whose computer is faster or which console has more RAM. If you think that they're getting smarter by looking at specs so much, then you can believe that; but, by all means don't call it a step forward for gamers as a whole. The average gamer today doesn't enjoy games, but enjoys winning and flaunting their hardware, like alot of athletes.
That two months after the PS3 is released, the follow-up to the Dreamcast will be released, having been developed in secret for years, possesing more power, ram, and every feature people are complaining that the PS3 lacks. It is at that time that people will realize that they can play their old kick-ass Dreamcast games, and will be drawn to the unbridaled talent of Sega's game desighners. It will be a wonderful thing, to see Sega near the top again.
I smell Seaman Two: The Second Coming...
3 degrees of separation from Vladimir Putin
cough...
If so, there is still benefit to the consumer in that a lot more games are available than would be if profit margins were smaller.
We should start up a new naming convention for the next-generation GameCube. I figure GameTesseract is a nice and geeky name for it. ;-)
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Complain to Nintendo for only putting 24MB of memory in the cube.
One word for ya baby, EVERCRACK. Do you even know any online gamers? I think Microsoft views the XBox_1 as a very expensive experiment, (as I think they view most projects the first time out the door). Microsoft can afford for the second time, or third to be the charm (hello $53 Billion in the bank). If I were going to place a bet on this horserace, it'd be on Microsoft. In 2006 we're supposed to move to Digital TV, I think most people will be switching to HDTV, so the new consoles will require it. HDTV is good enough to be a decent monitor (web browsing, applications, etc.) a TV is not. I think Microsoft views the XBox 2 as a digital hub, NOT "just" a game machine. An affordable machine that you can plug users into YOUR network with, to extract a monthly fee . Microsoft will rev up games with XBox 2 becasue they know they have to (HalfLife3, Doom4, and GTA5 exclusively for XB2, why? because MS could afford to allow the game companies to keep all thier profits to get the machine in the house, what is the critical number of killer games that tips the balance?). They can afford to make a couple mistakes, Sony is bleeding money, they will try and get the quick cash. In doing so Sony will sew the seeds for it's own demise (they won't be able to sell enough PS3s at a loss, they're already bleeding money, they laid off 20,000 last year).
So you'll be able to download movies from the Microsoft network to view on your XBox 2's Media Player 10, play online MMORG on your XBox 2 (paying MS a bit every month). The MicroSoft tax will get more expensive, but most people won't mind because they'll be too busy having fun to notice the tentacles of a giant monopoly enveloping and crushing them (say goodbye to innovation).
Ars Technica got it right several weeks ago; even the BBC doesn't say "BBC are".
& s= 50009562&f=34709834&m=459009952631
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc
What? So these guys can tell the future now? Bullshit.
Sony's Playstation 2 launched a year and a half before both the Nintendo GameCube and Microsoft's Xbox. Maybe that's not the only reason that it is in first place, but it sure as hell is the main reason for how many sales it has over the other two.
With Nintendo and Microsoft releasing their next-gen consoles around the same time as Sony, I think it's safe to say this is going to be a pretty clean race.
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
I really wonder about pieces like this. Perhaps those analysts write stuff for the literate dumb who happen to have disposable income laying around wondering what non existant console they should buy. Also a nice pot shot at Nintendo.
Well if they can make preditctions so can I.
Everyone who loves Sony will buy a PS3 (and Sony has more love than a french whore when the entire U.S. atlantic fleet docks for shore leave)
Everyone who loves Nintendo will buy a GC2 and DS
Everyone who loves Microsoft.... Just kidding we know nobody loves MS.
All kidding aside the next gen consoles will be about brand loyalty. Guess what Sony wins. Nintendo will continue to do well with thier market segments in the console and will maintain dominance in portables. Microsoft will struggle unless they reach that critical state of "killer app". Personally I am conflicted I dislike MS attitude towards the market and its customers but I secretly hope they kick everyones ass with something no one sees comming it is unlikely to happen though. Console gamming has reached a calm in the storm of competition. Some new blood has the opportunity to shake things up. One last prediction, Nintendo will continue to increase revenue on this gens console and software.
The truth suffers more from convictions than from lies.
You're right, but Nintendo itself should have the same kind of response. When I see the name Nintendo, I know it has to do with a game system of some sort (in the context of recent history anyway). When I see the name Sony, it could be any number of things.
As for the handheld, that might also have a lot to do with simple lack of good competition. Look at how long the original Game Boy survived unchanged... Game Gear was ok, but larger and pretty power hungry, from what I remember. It's been dead for a number of years now, and there hasn't been anything to really step up to fill its place.
yuo aer on teh spoke!!!1
To think I was actually going to try something else and make my own opinion!
Sheesh! What was I thinking? *slaps forehead*
What button lets me know what I want for dinner tonight?
Don't park drunk, accidents cause people.
Throwing out days worth of work on doubling the size of the output data by simply lowering the screen resolution... That story truly is a classic.
I would argue that games are made with uncompressed data and compressed to fit. A well managed team will have some idea of the size of the target system, and should progress with a tight resource budget on track. You don't want to throw out hundreds of thousands of dollars of work just because you can't fit it all at the end. Sometimes a company does get stuck in a Secret of Mana situation (CD game, cartridge medium), but I would be surprised if it was ever that bad on a non-port.
The ______ Agenda